Dan Le Betard Reveals Why He Thinks Nikola Jokic Is The Best Ever
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
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You don't even need the numbers to to make the Jokić case. Just watch the game
I watch. He’s the worst defensive all time great big man in nba history
YES! but the numbers dont hurt his case right now either... is top 5 in points/boards/assists/steals/3pt%/a million other advanced metrics...... its UNREAL
He is not even trying fullest when others are doing well, he will rather have his team score and win games if they can. He could probably average 35+ points a game if he is really chasing it.
@@brendanbloom3366 not worse than moses Malone or dirk but he's up there
Joker is great but he's not elevating his team to the level MJ did. Not even close. Stop lowering the standards for new, albeit great, players.
Jokic is the most efficient offensive player this game has ever seen bar none. MJ will always be the goat but Jokic is the best offensive player this game has seen.
stop this bs
@@Jayoplanternnumbers support it. His efficiency is well above even Jordan’s
@@satchelito1514 not above lebron's
not more than lebron
@@satchelito1514 numbers only tell one side of the story. Lmfao where was that offensive firepower when the nuggets needed it last post season. Being the most efficient isn’t the same as being the best. Jokic can’t get a bucket whenever he wants.
I would like to hear what Jordan think of Jokic.
Game recognizes game. Jordan would love the opportunity to play him.
For as great as MJ is (and he is the GOAT) I don’t think he has a very high opinion of Jokic. We’ve heard him say Anthony Edwards (a top 15 player in today’s game) is “special” but weird how never a peep about Jokic, the 3x MVP and best player in the game for years now, easily a top 15 player of all time already. Like Shaq, Jordan is insecure and doesn’t like fueling narratives that any young players are in the GOAT conversation.
Jordan was always known to be selfish. So I don't expect the classiness of Bird with him.
@@saptashwapal4400 Jordan isn't Magic or Bird on the team play level that's for sure.
Him speaking of Jokic would shake his position, he is trying to avoid that. :)
Joker plays basketball and chess at the same time.
53 year-old Chicagoan, and this year Jokic has a bigger impact than I have ever seen. Career it’s Jordan. But I even went back to watch Jordan’s games in the 90s, and while he was an absolute monster, he did not have the overall impact as a floor general, getting his teammates open not just with playmaking, but also pick after pick, off-ball movement, and directing traffic. Remember that when Jordan retired, the Bulls had an almost identical record the next year and made a deep playoff run with essentially the same roster. Pippen was a top 3 mvp candidate. Heck, Pippen was a top 5 mvp candidate when playing alongside Jordan. The on-off numbers say Denver is the worst team in the league without Jokic. Give him an all-time 50 player like Pippen and it would be scary.
You sound dumb
on off number say that, with him on the court, Denver is the best offense in the history of NBA (mabe it has cjanged to top 2 or something). Without him they are, you guesssed it, the worst
Jordan got 6. Nuff said
@ Threrefore Russell is much better, and Horry
I'm from champaign and was a kid during those bulls runs and now live in denver amd cosign all you say. I used tonprefer college hoops anyways but then 7 years ago I saw jokic and said yea this dude going win a mvp and chip in future but even now he has still blown my mind..I didn't see him becoming this great..insaw all star before he was I saw mvp but I didn't see the undisputed best player in world for multiple years
Joker's is hands down the best offensive center ever and most dangerous offensive player since Jordan.
yea just skip over lebron lmao. even curry can be considered as dangerous as jokic
@@sportstalkonly1442 bron fangirls are SAAAD😢😢
@sportstalkonly1442 I hear you but Jokic is just complete all round. Steph is the greatest shooter but no where near the passer or one on one that Jokic and Bron are. As for Bron i think Jokic is better because he's clearly better off the ball (screening and cutting) and a way better FT shooter, which isn't even debatable.
True, if you take center out of that sentence.
@@sportstalkonly1442Luka already surpassed Bron offensively.
He nailed it! Jokic the best to ever do it.
delusional af
the truth is coming. I understand the fear and resistance, but facts over feelings
Lmao
Best offensive player ever. Goat? Sure why not, it's close.
I respect Jokic's game, as it is built on fundamentals and an elite offensive skill set, he is undoubtedly the best player in the NBA right now, however, it's ridiculously absurd to compare him to Jordan. Not one of the following facts can be refuted...
Jokic excels in a Statistically Inflated league, void of any fundamentally sound 'Hall of Fame' DEFENSE! Uncontested shots and uncalled rule violations are RAMPANT. Officiating now HEAVILY favours the offensive player, which has led to an explosion of meaningless triple doubles! Players are not playing BOTH ends of the court, so they have the luxury of putting all of their energy into offense, where they encounter NO RESISTANCE...ZERO man-to-man defense, wide open lanes and ZERO rim protection! All whilst being allowed to carry the ball, double dribble and take extra steps! The desire to win and the drive to compete against the best, fueled the NBA during Jordan's Era, which led to some of the greatest rivalries in NBA history. The current NBA is driven by inconsequential offensive stat accumulation and player entitlement, one of the many reasons why viewership has fallen to a historical low. The game has become completely unrecognisable, rendering any comparisons to previous Eras nonsensical.
Some point to Joker recently passing MJ in 3 advanced analytics - PER, BPM, W/S per 48 min - (Jordan is now at at number 2) but omit the fact that Jokic's number 1 ranking in those 3 stats applies to Regular Season only - Jordan still has the best career BPM and W/S per 48 min in NBA history for the Playoffs, along with best VORP per game (having 6 of the 9 greatest individual seasons ever played) in NBA history! Additionally, Jordan's advanced stats include his entire career, meaning they include his 'past prime' years, his injury-riddled Wizards years...Joker has not experienced his 'past prime' years yet, he is only 29 years old, his advanced stats will undoubtedly look different by the time he retires. Another major separator is defense...Jordan is a perennial 1st Team All-Defense and DPOY caliber defender and widely regarded as the Best Defensive Guard in NBA history...Jokic has never even sniffed an All-Defensive Team, either 1st or 2nd!
Finally, Jordan's statistical dominance was achieved whilst he was also WINNING. TWO 3-PEATS in the span of 8 years, earning 6 FMVPs, and those 8 years included an 18 month retirement in the middle of his prime! In a time period of just 13 seasons, Jordan's Bulls faced and beat the most 60+ win teams in NBA History - NINE - with a win/loss record of 7-2. Jordan also faced 27 50+ win teams with a win/loss record of 20-7...(2nd highest All-Time - Kobe faced 35 50+ win teams but played significantly more seasons than MJ). Joker has never beaten a 50 win team in the playoffs nor beaten a 1st Team All-NBA player. Jokic has also blown two 3-2 leads and has lost twice with home court advantage. Jokic is putting up great MVP caliber numbers no doubt but he had 1 Finals trip where he never played better than a 4 seed. We're going to have to see a lot more winning for Jokic to ever be considered as a top 10-15 all time great. But he's got time and has a chance but right now, objectively, he is not a better overall player than David Robinson or Moses Malone. Consider this...
David Robinson played in the Jordan era with Olajuwon and Shaq, along with a plethora of other great centers. When Robinson got legitimate help, he won 2 championships but individually he has an MVP, DPOY, scoring title, rebound title, block title. Pretty impressive. Jokic is playing in a time where his main MVP Competition is Jayson Tatum, Shai Gilgeous Alexander, Luka Doncic and Joel Embiid. That's a far cry from Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaq, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Magic, Kobe and KG.
BOTTOM LINE: As great a player as Jokic is, he is nowhere near Jordan's level. MJ played BOTH ends of the court, at an ELITE level, for a sustained period of time, in a much more physical, defense-oriented league, this is all confirmed by the Eye Test but it's also reflected in his All-Time Records, Stats, Accolades and Accomplishments. Joker certainly has the potential to finish his career as an All-Time Great but there are levels to greatness. Jordan is in a different stratosphere.
Jokic is the best player Ever.
With one ring. Lol. Ok
No, not even close.
He is the best.. MVP ❤
If Jokic doesn't win MVP this league is just fucking busted, and the awards don't mean shit. He's literally putting up numbers that looked impossible 10 years ago. He's surpassed all of his previous MVP seasons in every stat this year. The dude is the single most talented and impactful basketball player on the planet, and just about ever.
I love kobe, mj and Bron. If jokic wins his 4th mvp this year and a season then yeah jokic definitely in the convo
so one chip and 4 mvps makes you the goat? lmao
I forgot to add chip and finals mvp in that aswell 💯 by the time he retires there will be 0 debates. Chips isn't the biggest factor because it takes a whole team to win that. It's a team award not an individual award.
@@sportstalkonly1442:Is it Bill Russel with 11 chips and 5 MVP GOAT???
@@drmaccify no he's not. but neither is jokic with literally one chip and one finals mvp and 3 mvps. 6 all nba teams. his resume is lacking. I didn't say he couldn't build his case I just said he's not even close to being the goat right now.
@@drmaccify I didn't say you had to have the most, you just have to have multiple
It's really tough to rank an all time player until a player reaches the twilight of their career. The scary part is that Jokic has been the best player in the NBA for at least 5 years and he is still getting better.
he wasn't in 2020, lebron was, he wasn't in 2021 giannis was, 2022 curry was. now these last 3 years sure 2023 was fully jokic. 2024 and now is between giannis and jokic
@@sportstalkonly1442 its always been joker. We just refused to acknowledge it because of racism.
@@euro51116there’s no way Jokic was the best player in 2020-2022
@euro51116 no. Jokic was not the best until 2023. 2020 it was lebron. 2021 it was giannis. 2022 it was curry.
And the second he misses a few months consecutive due to injuries he will never be the same.. the only reason you can make that argument is because he's been relatively healthy. Which has allowed him to be in what i call a "peak zone" meaning by the time a superstar player plays 3 to 4 yrs straight of atleast 68-70 games or more each of those 3 to 4 yrs it allows them to be in peak rhythm that every movement, every action, everything they do on the court becomes second nature at it finest because they've missed so little time. That's a fact I've studied. Here; Every nba player during their mvp yr or repeated yrs, had played 70 games or more for atleast 3 straight yrs leading into their first mvp year, since Allen Iverson won it in 2001. With the exception of Shaq, embiid and derrick rose. Neither Shaq or embiid need that 3yr run because theyre just that dominated. Durant and Westbrook both were shy of the mark one of those 3 year by 2 games, playing 68. Kobe when he was averaging like 33pts a game dominated the league for yrs, he had played atleast 3 yrs of 70plus games each yr. Lebron dominated through two decades until what? He finally missed a bunch of time his first or second yr in L.A. he came back and was clearly a step slower. Never looking quite the same. When Giannis was considered the best, winning 2 mvps, 2 dpoy awards, he had done the same, 3yrs straight, 70plus games. Curry, once he got 3 straight yrs of the same and was trying to steal the face of the league from lebron, he had done the 3 and 70, leading into his first mvp and first ring. It's literally the same trend over and over. James harden mvp and scoring tear he went on was because of i believe 4 straight yrs of 70games. And no one could stop him at that time. That much basketball allows one to be in peak shape and have a step over their fellow superstars. Jokic run of 3 yrs 70s before his first mvp, is no different.
2 players who were on that run of 3yrs, 70 plus games going into last season, was tatum and ant edwards. And look at the seasons that both had last yr. One went to his first conference finals knocking out the defending champs on the way and the other winning the championship.
Jokics never played with a all-star. Imagine that
And Jokic never had a "all defense" selection either. All the other great centers have at least one. All the goat candidates Kareem, Jordan,Lebron have made at least 6. JOKIC HAS ZERO in 11 years. Unfortunately defense matters and Jokic was never good on defense and never will be, that hurts his legacy. 💯💯
@SaySpawn well he is top 5 in steals this season
@@SaySpawn He doesn’t have enough athleticism to be a great rim protector or a lock down defender but anticipates passing lanes well facilitates defensive schemes while on the court well and is a top 5 rebounder, he’s just as important to our team on the defensive side of the floor
Jokic has the highest PEAK of any player all time
you people are delusional
Lmao no he doesn’t
exactly. 2023 was a better and tougher finals run than any of LeBUM's.
Also longest peak.
Idk that's probably wilt but jokic is more consistent
People don’t understand how valuable that 1 chip in Denver is worth. He did it with no all star team mates…
Murray played better than him in the wcf and strong all Star level in the finals
Murray was all star caliber that entire yr. He didnt get the votes because of curry, luka, morant, and others, doesnt mean he didnt play at that level. Murray Had many games that yr where he led Denver in scoring that yr. And other nights porter Jr lead them in scoring as well. Crazy how ppl are now down playing jokic teammates now, when just the yr after they won, ppl were claiming they are an up and coming dynasty as well as the best starting 5 in basketball. Murray was also their best player in atleast one, if not two series. And lastly, if his teammates suck so bad why did he get put out the playoffs early, the first and second rounds, the yr before the championship when Murray and porter both were hurt? Jokic was an mvp and got sent home in the first round. As a matter of fact he's the only 3 time mvp to have only been to the finals once. He's 1 out of 3 players to win 3 mvp's in 4yrs. The other two are bird and lebron james. That tells me how biased that award is. Black players have been the overall most dominant since the between the bird amd jokic area, yet, 2 of the players with 3 out of 4 mvp's in a span of 4yrs in the last 40 yrs are white? How could that even be possible? The only two white guys that could have even been in the convo during that time frame happens to have more mvp's than all those blk dudes that dominated in the same time frame of 40 yrs?? Lmfao.. out of jordan, lebron, and jokic, and from the time they received their first mvp til their last, jokic has the shortest peak of 7 yrs thus far. Lebron has 19, while jordan has 14. Jokic will be irrelevant as a player if he's still around and playing at age 36, nvm 40.
And he also did it beating an 8 seed.
Jokic one of the greatest big men ever in a league without any big men.
It's Him then daylight then everybody else over the last 5 years
Jokic is strong as an ox and his footwork, touch, and skill is insane. Nuggets favorite nba team to watch by far because the way Jokic plays
JOKIC IS 🐐🥇💪👑
I think the level he plays at is the best I've ever seen. there's a mastery to it.
Joker is the MOST COMPLETE basketball player of all time. Best or 2nd best of all time. One of the goats...
MJ... is still `it`.
mj aint better than lebron lil bro
how is jokic the most complete when he's not even a high level defender?
@@Jeff-by4fwJordan certainly is better than LeBron. Less years more accolades and no 2011
@@suntansuperman26 no he's not but both are clearly better than jokic. that we can agree on
@@sportstalkonly1442right it’s 2 sides of the ball 😂
Honestly I think Jokers the best ive ever seen. And ive been watching since the tail end of Bird and Magucs careers.
With one ring lol. Ok
I dont know if Jokic is the best basketball player I've ever seen, but he plays the best basketball I've ever seen
He is the best player in the world.right now.
Great conversation 🙏🏾
MJ, above all NBA superstars, was and is an icon, I've grown up watching and adoring him... Through the media push, he made the game of basketball globally more popular than anyone else. He also brought the most money to the industry. That's why, he will always be regarded as the GOAT ...but, if it was just about the basketball game, Jokic clearly brings the greatest value to the team. Jokic + 4 random players beats MJ + 4 random players... The paradox is that Joker's story is genuinely movie-like, the Clint Eastwood of basketball... perfect for media stories, yet they ignore him and even put him down... why? We, from Serbia, lived through that disrespect too many times... and it is for that same reason that Nikola is so disgusted by the media circus...
It’s because he’s not black. If Jokic was a black man, he’d be way more beloved by all the fans here in America.
all 9 players would be just watching Jordan score 62 points in that game.
@@NiteOwlVibes That's exactly how much delusional you are... and I can not help you...
I love MJ more than anything but yes. Your comment is very correct
I mean... You can't put Jokic over MJ or LeBron (certainly not yet), but I will say I don't think anyone ever makes everyone around them like Jokic.
it's not even funny (it might be tragic actually) how EASILY you could jokic over lebron.... jokic is all the things lebron claims to be.... but isn't... and can't be
@@notimportant3686 Honestly that's just LeBron hate. The guy was incomprehensibly good for literally the longest time ever. That 2018 playoff run is still the craziest single effort I've ever seen, and that's not even considered peak Lebron. I don't think it's impossible for Jokic to overtake him, but I can't put Nikola over him in good conscience.
@@michaelmcphee2006 i disagree completely... look the only reason you have this opinion about lebron is because the nba FUCKED UP... after mj retired they were scared that they didn't have a new star to replace him to be the new "legend"... and they picked WRONG... but now they committed and they had to back this mentally weak person for the rest of his career.... have you seen how many of his stats are fake?... i've tried to go through several games and check the plays he was credited with assists and rebounds and IT IS A JOKE... not only does he get credit for plays that don't qualify, there are plays where he is literally NOT NEXT TO THE BALL and gets credit for the rebound....
i remember him from day one... i heard about this new player who is supposed to be an amazing passer, so i watched him... and i said, he is an OK passer, but a willing one, then i realized why he was so willing.... HE WAS SCARED TO SHOOT THE BALL... go watch his first few seasons, it was obvious...
dude is a fraud, propped up by the nba... he is the antithesis of someone like jokic, who doesn't care about the accolades but cares about helping his team... lebron will throw anyone under the bus... fraud fraud fraud
every single word in this post is true
Over MJ maybe not yet. LeBron? lmao
@@AVAXIInot over either one
MJ might be the greatest player ever (imo he is) but Joker is THE BEST basketball player ever.
What does that even mean?
@@selfmade8884 Meaningless semantics. Some people are obsessed with saying nothing at all but not staying silent
😂😂
Greatest means most acomplished
Best means best player
Americans with negative brain
True
How is Jokic the best offensive player ever when he gets shut down consistently by one player. (Kat) Jordan would never.
THRU 25 GAMES
Karl Anthony Towns has held JOKIC TO 18PPG ON 47% shooting. If Kat could shut down Jokic imagine what David Robinson, Ewing, Olajuwon, Duncan, Mourning, Wilt, Kareem, Moses Malone, would have done.💯
People always forget that Jokić still has never played with a teammate that’s an all star.
this why Dan got let go
He’s definitely one of the best players of all time. The era argument is always a tricky one. It’s not the Jokers fault that the NBA today has almost literally no legit centers. I believe he would be great in any era, but if he’s going against Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, Yao Ming, and so on, he would not be as dominant. IMO.
What are you talking about bruh. Most of those guys would be average centers right now. The center position has never been better. These dudes can handle and shoot 3s now. Do you even watch basketball??
@ yes, I even do.
@@TPG1 You must be 10 years old
I think Gobert is a good indicator of how Jokic would cope with 90s style defence. Gobert is very much a 1 dimensional player, focused on defending. Jokic cooks him basically every time they play each other. Great offence pretty much always beats great defence. His spacing would probably be a huge challenge for the traditional centre to deal with. Idk I could be wrong but I feel like that’s how things would play out.
@@Heartbrayk. Before offending people learn how basketball works first. He is absolutely right, none of those in the list had to defend up to the 3pt line constantly, get into P&R and switch onto smaller defender.
Shaq would be ridiculed every single possession, drag him out and force him to switch on the PG, done.
I mean, Jokic and Murray play inverted P&R, with Jokic handling the ball and Murray setting the screen, none of those centers had the ability to do that.
I love watching Jokic play. it's like the old Showtime Lakers with Magic Johnson, but better. Maybe call it " The Joker's Wild Nuggets Show" 😅😂 yeah, still working on it lol
The cavs disrespect is insane the east is a forgone conclusion ?
You need to make a conference finals before anyone will take you seriously. You got stink-dicked by boston last year after just barely getting past the Wagner twins. The year before that you got donkey-balled by Julius Randle.
@@jimmycorperare the Cavs not looking like a much stronger team this year, than years prior?
@@jimmycorperCavs are young team like okc so both okc and Cavs need to proven themselves as both lost in second round last year.
Jokic, making NBA great again! :D
No mentioned of clev or okc as potential eas/wes conf. potentials is baffling
The overlook on Cleveland who have clearly been the best team in the east was weird
This is what you get when everyone and their mother has a Podcast, don't really watch games and don't do research. Cavs is the best team in basketball.
@kKlovnyou do realize these two played in the nba right lol I definitely would have named them at least but I can see why they think that Cleveland or Okc wouldn’t win the conference. But personally I would love to see Cleveland vs Denver in the finals. (I’m a Denver fan) those duals between Murray and Mitchell were fun to watch when Mitchell was with the Jazz.
You are missing the point. He was talking about it because Jokic is currently best player and he literally pointed out that he wants to see the struggle of the best player to overcome a team like nowadays Celtics.
You say the jokers not athletic I believe he’s the most coordinated athlete playing sports
JOKIC IS THE BEST TO EVER PLAY THE GAME! STATS DO NOT LIE! NUMBERS WIN GAMES!!!
Why he only got one ring then
Dan always trying to dethrone Mj
Winning matters. He never had as good teams as Lebron, but imho he should win at least 2 more chips to be in GOAT conversation.
Bron had to shift to a completely new team with 3 superstars just to win 2 rings. Jokic is doing with bench players. It's a tough comparison.
@@OgikcJokic never faced good competition compared to LeBron in the finals with or without help
@ that's such a subjective argument lol. Mean's nothing and holds no merit. Fact's are, Lebron needed 2 superstars and a completely assembled team just to get close to the finals.
@@Ogikc if you are calling chris bosh a superstar then murray is also a superstar ( both of them are not)
@@RafaelPereira-px3ys Doesn't matter what me and you think...Facts are, Bosh was specifically selected to to complete the dominant trio due to his versatility...he was averaging 18-20pts while they dominated for 4 seasons. Murray seems to be getting worse instead of better somehow. Jokic is the best center of all time and if he had a team curated for him I think he'd have multiple rings without question.
I wonder when they recorded this? December?
Great story Mike miller!
Jokic is like messi in soccer, not Athletic, doesnt flop ,but he is all the offensive, caN do all offensive roles at the highest level, highest iq. And consistency.
Would love to be able to see jokic vs hakeem arguably the two highest skilled big men of all time. And dream was an ELITE defender
Jokic is a unicorn. You will not see clones of him in the NBA's future. And today's game is made just for him. He should be called The Jeneral.
Remember these are literally the guys who vote for MVP .
Le betard is friends with half the ESPN voters
You sound like Jokic is not a deserving MVP
Best Player of all time No but I would have him at number 12 on the all time list, For a Center tho he as a case for the best ever
People id pick to start my franchise in order
1. MJ
2. Jokic
3. Magic
4. Bird
5. Bron
6. Stockton
Being a MJ ia the GOAT guy since the late 80s when he won MVP and DPOY, the only arguement against the Joker is the GOAT now is his D. Other then that, he is no.1 in my book aswell..
with one championship, 3 mvps and 6 all nba teams he's the goat?
Dan the racist Cuban... We still listening to him?
In my opinion JORDAN will always be the GREATEST. The question is could Joker DOMINATE in the 80s or 90s. Much much much much more PHYSICAL. 😂 😂😂
Old game was weak, tactically game improved a lot. We are talking about 35 years of coaching and improvements.
Is this an early April’s fools?
I hope it is clear for all those who talk about colors and races, that to be the best in the world, skills count.
Whether you are yellow, red, black, white, green or blue is just a matter of your own abilities.
Been saying this since the 23 season, which was WAY more efficient than this season.
Only Nuggets franchise, Calvin Booth and Jabum27 can stop Jokić to be the GOAT, one day!
Greatest offensive player ever. There’s an argument though and that’s insane in itself.
Better than LeBUM ever was. I was a spurs fan, then a warriors fan, now im loving being a nuggets fan watching a REAL player own him into retirement.
Sounds like your butt hurt . What has King 👑 Bron done to you?
@ ruin the game. Spread his woke bs nonsense. take the easy route. Only win with superteams. had more help in his career than MJ or Steph. Should i continue?
Obviously, Jokic is the best offensive player ever. But he's 22nd ranked defensive rating, Top 5 steals, almost a block a game, and he's the best offense and defense general ever. Id take him over MJ in a heartbeat in an all-time draft
I'm not ready to call him the best player ever... but he is the most efficient player I've ever seen. That's hard to counterpose.
Right now I have Jokic behind Jordan and LeBron. Now if he gets 1 or 2 more rings. C'mon now. He playing til he 40 averaging a triple double. Mind you he doesnt rely on athleticism.
Joker is the best offensive player ever why go as far as to say he is the best player ever or any other takes like that. The best argument is that at his prime he ain’t got no weaknesses offensively and can operate and dominate with no athleticism doing it on a square meter.
he's not even the best offensive player ever. lebron is
@ jokic can operate better off the ball, setting screens, off reb, DOMINANT post player, best touch around the rim with hooks and floaters, better 3pt shooter, higher percentage from 2pt, better ground game, better footwork. Thats not including advance stats.
@@NBAalaChilena lmao dude none of this is correct. let's look at the basics shall we. lebron averages more points and assists over 22 years than jokic does for 10 years. has jokic ever led the league in assists? jokic is also not a better 3 point shooter than lebron or mid range. lebron is a better passer and scorer. generated more points, averages more points and assists over a longer time period. if jokic is so good on offense how did a 22 year old put him out of the playoffs? the timberwolves were designed to defeat the nuggets how come he couldn't use his offensive gifts to exploiit that defense?
@ they needed 3 seven footers to beat Jokic like the Lakers had in the bubble. Is that worst than the biggest meltdown ever? Where were those numbers in 2011? What was the strategy in 2007? Letting him shoot right? Plus LeBron shoots 34 from 3 jokic 35 and LeBron shoots 55 from 2 for his career while jokic shoots 60% what’s the excuse now?
@@NBAalaChilena when he was 22 years old in 2007? what was jokic at that age lmao. and no they didn't let him shoot. even robert horry said they doubled and tripled him all game long. jokic played 12 less years so him shooting less while making less at 1 percentage higher does not make him a better 3 point shooter. I never said he wasn't better at the rim he is a center I said he's not a better mid range shooter. I asked you something simple. if he is so great on offense, why didn't he prove that vs a team whose leader was a 22 year old?
if there was no 3 second rule against the defense ans some hand checking was allowed Jokic wouldn't be scoring or rebounding as much. Both he and Doncic said the NBA was much easier than the Euro Leagues
Jokic and Luka are the coat of many colors.
What are these guys talking about? Boston being so far ahead of everyone else? They are 4-3 in their last 7(not counting last nights golden state game) Cleveland are so f DISRESPECTED it’s untrue
Is official, Dan LeBatrard is on crack.
I would like to hear what Bird thinks of Jokic.
Let the man win some rings first before we talk MJ , Jokic is the best player in the NBA eyes closed
They won't let him win more rings and become the best ever because he's a foreigner.
Compare the help Jordan had with what Joker is operating with. People almost forget that MJ had Pippen for all his titles and Kukoc and Rodman for the second threepeat. That was a superteam.
If the GOAT was about titles, then it is over and Bill Russel is undisputed GOAT
@@koroslav while that may be true jokic doesn't even have more than one finals appearance, he was just put out by a team whose leader was 22 year old in the playoffs, he may have mvps but he doesn't have postseason success, he only has 6 all nba teams and no defensive accolades. not goat worthy. let's be real.
@@sportstalkonly1442 Ant really didnt have anything to do with that tho. That was all about the difference in supporting cast. DPOY, all star big and a pf 6MOY.
Nuggets didnt even have a big on the court when jokic wasnt there and when he was there he was double teamed by 2 7footers.
@@sportstalkonly1442 I mean the whole GOAT debate is nonsense, people are trying to compare players in different eras playing different rules.
Let's talk defense, since you mentioned it. Joker cannot get into foul trouble if Nuggets want to win a game, we can agree on that, I hope. So if we take how fouls are called now vs in the early 90s, he cannot make the same defensive plays MJ and pippen could back then. And that contributes to his playstyle.
Stats: MJ has way more ppg, and one more STL, also slightly better to PG, but on 2 less assists PG. Blocks are similar, so what are we talking about?
If we compare BPM then out of 5 best seasons in history, jokic is 4 of them.
If we compare eye test then MJ was flying.
Jokic in 23 had put up best PO run in history.
It is all BS. I like Joker's playstyle more than MJ. But that doesn't mean he is better. Nor is he worse. Both are great and fun to watch.
Also if we want to compare PO ebarrasements, MJ was swept twice by a white guy with messed up back.
(Sarcasm alert) It was nice of Magic and Larry to retire, so Michael could win some.
I appreciate all of them. Old timers and current players. None of them should be trashed or put above others, even if we fans have our opinions about which era is/was better.j
We need to see the Celtics v Nuggets in the Finals this year, best team vs best player.
It is hard to compare. The game is different today than it was 30-40 years ago. The game is more open it is softer than it was back then. Jokic is the best player in the world right now and it’s not even close but back then he wouldn’t be ask to do the things he does in today’s game he also doesn’t have alot of quality big men that would be beating and banging on him an entire game like shaq or ewing or robinson or duncan or olajuwon or kareem wilt.
So much glazing lol. It's insane. People just want to make headlines
Everybody talks about Luka in the finals but not a word about Kyrie playing below average for him.
Jokic is G.O.A.T No doubt about it... and he's 29 yrs old?
You can't make an argument for that. He's one sided. MJ played defense as well
lol casual
@Zemlja_je_ravna tell me you have never seen Jordan play without telling me you haven't watched Jordan play
@truth9430 lol stop
I love jokic and im a nuggets fan but jokic does not play defense at the level to be the greatest player of all time he also don’t have anywhere near the clutch moments game winning shots to be in that conversation he has absolutely been the best player on the last 5 years and it’s a pleasure to watch him and bring my home team a championship dan needs to chill out
Jordan fans keep saying winning matters till I mention Bill Russell and all of a sudden “no but that’s different”. Jokic is 100% in that convo I’m sorry
There is a real argument that hes the best offensive player ever but the current NBA really lacks great defensive players right now, the rules favour offence over everything else. What's stopping him from entering the best player of all time top 3 for me is he really lacks aggression on defence, its very hard to judge one of todays players vs players in the 80s and 90s because the rules are different.
he's my number 1 as well
Dan LB floating what a lot of serious NBA fans and analysts have been thinking. No one else courageous enough to say it. By production and numbers and actual effect on winning Jokic is the best in history by a margin. But we'll have to listen to the push back by people that only rely on the (racialist, LOL) eye test. Like they've seen every game played by great players. I'm 68 and have watched the league since the mid 60's. So I've got a lot of eye test. Yeah, he's not black and can't jump out of the gym. But he's the greatest offensive engine in history. He's never played a game with a team mate that even made an all star team.
Bucks nuggets would be a hell of series. 2 most dominant players in the league
Jok definitely is not the greatest ever. But I can see him getting there. He's in my top 3 as the best I've seen already and he's not even 30. He's not injury prone. If the franchise can hold things together and he can get a few more rings he will definitely be in the 🐐 conversation
I respect Jokic's game, as it is built on fundamentals and an elite offensive skill set, he is undoubtedly the best player in the NBA right now, however, it's ridiculously absurd to compare him to Jordan. Not one of the following facts can be refuted...
Jokic excels in a Statistically Inflated league, void of any fundamentally sound 'Hall of Fame' DEFENSE! Uncontested shots and uncalled rule violations are RAMPANT. Officiating now HEAVILY favours the offensive player, which has led to an explosion of meaningless triple doubles! Players are not playing BOTH ends of the court, so they have the luxury of putting all of their energy into offense, where they encounter NO RESISTANCE...ZERO man-to-man defense, wide open lanes and ZERO rim protection! All whilst being allowed to carry the ball, double dribble and take extra steps! The desire to win and the drive to compete against the best, fueled the NBA during Jordan's Era, which led to some of the greatest rivalries in NBA history. The current NBA is driven by inconsequential offensive stat accumulation and player entitlement, one of the many reasons why viewership has fallen to a historical low. The game has become completely unrecognisable, rendering any comparisons to previous Eras nonsensical.
Some point to Joker recently passing MJ in 3 advanced analytics - PER, BPM, W/S per 48 min - (Jordan is now at at number 2) but omit the fact that Jokic's number 1 ranking in those 3 stats applies to Regular Season only - Jordan still has the best career BPM and W/S per 48 min in NBA history for the Playoffs, along with best VORP per game (having 6 of the 9 greatest individual seasons ever played) in NBA history! Additionally, Jordan's advanced stats include his entire career, meaning they include his 'past prime' years, his injury-riddled Wizards years...Joker has not experienced his 'past prime' years yet, he is only 29 years old, his advanced stats will undoubtedly look different by the time he retires. Another major separator is defense...Jordan is a perennial 1st Team All-Defense and DPOY caliber defender and widely regarded as the Best Defensive Guard in NBA history...Jokic has never even sniffed an All-Defensive Team, either 1st or 2nd!
Finally, Jordan's statistical dominance was achieved whilst he was also WINNING. TWO 3-PEATS in the span of 8 years, earning 6 FMVPs, and those 8 years included an 18 month retirement in the middle of his prime! In a time period of just 13 seasons, Jordan's Bulls faced and beat the most 60+ win teams in NBA History - NINE - with a win/loss record of 7-2. Jordan also faced 27 50+ win teams with a win/loss record of 20-7...(2nd highest All-Time - Kobe faced 35 50+ win teams but played significantly more seasons than MJ). Joker has never beaten a 50 win team in the playoffs nor beaten a 1st Team All-NBA player. Jokic has also blown two 3-2 leads and has lost twice with home court advantage. Jokic is putting up great MVP caliber numbers no doubt but he had 1 Finals trip where he never played better than a 4 seed. We're going to have to see a lot more winning for Jokic to ever be considered as a top 10-15 all time great. But he's got time and has a chance but right now, objectively, he is not a better overall player than David Robinson or Moses Malone. Consider this...
David Robinson played in the Jordan era with Olajuwon and Shaq, along with a plethora of other great centers. When Robinson got legitimate help, he won 2 championships but individually he has an MVP, DPOY, scoring title, rebound title, block title. Pretty impressive. Jokic is playing in a time where his main MVP Competition is Jayson Tatum, Shai Gilgeous Alexander, Luka Doncic and Joel Embiid. That's a far cry from Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaq, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Magic, Kobe and KG.
BOTTOM LINE: As great a player as Jokic is, he is nowhere near Jordan's level. MJ played BOTH ends of the court, at an ELITE level, for a sustained period of time, in a much more physical, defense-oriented league, this is all confirmed by the Eye Test but it's also reflected in his All-Time Records, Stats, Accolades and Accomplishments. Joker certainly has the potential to finish his career as an All-Time Great but there are levels to greatness. Jordan is in a different stratosphere.
Joker is playing Go while the rest of the NBA is playing Go Fish
No one impacts the game Offensively for there team like Jokic has(probably Magic Johnson or Steph) but it’s not close on how much the nuggets rely on Jokic
People like this is why Jokic gets hate.
6 Championships makes MJ the goat. Jokic would need at least 3 to start that conversation. I watch MJ beat all my teams. One after another. Watch Kareem win with the Bucks. Bird the true definition of leaving every thing on the court. Jokic with out a doubt is the most entertaining Basketball player I have ever seen. Only reason I watch.
5 years of pure dominance and people actually debate is he a top ten ever, and doing all that in the most talented era without all star, all defense help. MJ is the clear GOAT, but pleading Joker case is the best basketball got versus MJ. There was a plenty of great and bright stars but Joker is a whole freaking Solar system, it's poetry in the motion, Big Honey will end up top five easy.
Can someone from the US explain to me, after all the doping scandals in US sports, why don't NBA want USADA to test their athletes? Do they promote PED?
Not even considering the cavs is crazy. Dude is NOT watching basketball
The non-athletic argument for Jokic is not true anyway. He is strong and runs the floor as good as anyone.
Mike Miller knows
I disagree simply because I think he's very much a product of today's game. He's perfectly tailored his play to how basketball is played today and the rules it's played under. And more power to him, but I don't know you can just automatically say he'd outplay Kareem, or Wilt, or Moses Malone, or Hakeem, or whoever if he played in the same era under the same conditions. And comparing him to non centers like Jordan is silly.
I guess anyone can be the goat now. even guys that get put out by 22 year olds in the playoffs.
MJ and a few others are ahead of Jokic. But I can see him top 5 all time for sure.
MJ is not playing today the JOKER is
Here we go again. Bye bye Birdie (Larry Bird) we have a new Great White Hope.😂
Jokič is THE EVOLUTION OF THE GAME. The best player ever played this game. MJ is THE GREATEST player of oll time. And this is NO MATER what Jokič achive. MJ is Mohamed Ali of basketball. Jokič is Mike Tyson of the game. Forget Lebron . Hes not iven close non of them. Thrd is Kobe. I go with Kobe.
Bird could lock this guy up 😂
Weakest era ever so even Chris Dudley would be a all star in this era
lol two of Chet, Sabonis or Sengun isn’t going to be an all star in the west this year but you name dropped Chris Dudley, we lost the impact of shame in our society 🕊️. You guys had Tyson Chandler and Kyle Korver in all star games don’t speak on this league
Weakest era ever when we talk about Jokic right, then take away from all the other players that played in this era.
@@Zemlja_je_ravna DeAndre Jordan was an all-nba player lol in their era #NotSerious, Jason Kidd, AI and Ray Allen were beefing for Final appearances out the east #NotSeriousOutsidetheWest also those player I just listed don’t crack the top 8 players in our league. 90s had the shittest role players ever and the worst set of rules and they even reduced the 3pt line and them guys only managed to shoot like 4% better #Unskilled. They took crack in the 80s and the western conference was unserious still not as unserious as the 1999-2019 Eastern Conference #BabyConferences. I’m not gunna act like the current east is good but at least they got Boston, Cleveland and the Bucks. One of the best players in the 70s was Bob McAdoo lol and Bill Walton was damn near better than Kareem without injuries and I need to know how that man would be better than Jokic #weakestsuperstarera and 8 teams and Plumbers
He is but people are stuck on jordan and lebron. People cant cant come to grips that someone can be better.
This is like saying Jimi Hendrix was the GOAT of rock guitar players. He never really was, but people want to maintain popular opinions, and so when asked, respond "Hendrix".
It’s not Luka’s fault, no one else could score the ball🤷♂️
Jokic and luka say today game is so easy in this era. Back then it be much tougher alot big men example dwight howard be a beast in today's probably fucking unstoppable. I pick a prime dwight over lebron.