@@palmchristmastree dissection of human bodies? Then, like, doing the reverse logic and trying to mathematically find the answer. I may be wrong. Not looking into it lol.
John 3:16, "For God so loves the world that he sent his one and only son so that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" I love yall, God bless you in Jesus's name, amen ✝️🙏
@@lloyd9819they never assumed you didn't eat meat. They just brought up that animals can't feel pain when they're dead. The assumption was all you. Cute right?
My father used to work with them on a lab (ecotoxicology, heavy metal poisoning and that) and once, a student had thebrillant idea of feeding crabs bits of octupus tentacles. The crabs started to jump out of their tank. Like, really scared of it. So they might not only feel conscious pain, but actual fear.
@@360entertainment2it's not the eating octopus tentacles. It's the fact that usually octopus eat crabs and not the other way around and they are really good at that, and just seeing the disembodied still living tentacle was enough to recognise it as a full octopus
It's what they were told, and believing that is a lot easier than accepting that you've been inflicting horrible torture on crustaceans for ages. I think it also goes back to when people thought all animals just ran on instinct and that humans were the only creatures capable of complex thought.
Yeah, it was thought they couldn't feel pain for a long time. It has nothing to do with justifying how delicious they are though. Not assumed btw our tech and societal interests were not capable of disproving the theory.
It would be most logical to assume that pain is the absolute first conscious sensation there is. How better to avoid danger, regardless of how simple the actual creature is. The feeling might even be severely heightened, since there's little capacity for them to feel anything else.
Pain, as we understand it, is not pain as, say, insects understand it. A part of it is brain capacity. You do need to have a functional enough brain to essentially interpret pain. Insects don't have enough capacity for this and, even more critical, there's no evolutionary need for it. For larger creatures like you, I, and crabs, is that we have a stellar ability to regenerate. Downside? Things can heal wrong. Things embedded in your wound, infections, parasites, anything that you can imagine would hamper your ability to heal while you are conscious. These are dangers insects, and many animals, don't deal with. This doesn't mean suddenly they automatically don't feel pain, of course! However, we do have animals with an evolutionary template where they are both incapable and disincentivized to understand pain. TL:DR Not all creatures feel pain because some of us can heal and know pain so we can keep healing. Some creatures cant or heal badly, making it evolutionarily bad to understand the concept of pain.
@@ytunnuytSure which is why we do the research but ethically it seems to me like we should call a spade a spade unless it’s clear a creature actually is unable to feel pain.
@@Detson404 There is a difference between having nociceptors (i.e. detecting damage) and actually having a "conscious percepction of pain" (i.e. a subjective internal experience). Nothing in this article suggests that crabs have that conscious perception of pain (or any form of consciousness for that matter)
There's a reason Gordon Ramsay always dispatched his larger crustaceans when cooking them (specifically Lobsters witn Jeremy Clarkson and king crabs in Norway)
He’s also pretty vocal about inhumane slaughtering practices in general. He did a couple specials where he visits shark fin fisheries and pig farms and discusses the barbaric shit they do to the animals, and he was disgusted.
@@Deathworm-eg5ltit’s also done as a safety thing, crabs and lobsters basically start decomposing right after death, so they have to be fresh to be safe to eat. Granted boiling alive isn’t necessary, you could kill it first, but people didn’t start this to torture crabs
shrimps, many insects, spiders and sea slugs (possibly also their relatives cephalopods and land slugs/snails) tend their wounds more so than practical and/or preferentially go for painkillers. Which are some of the best indicators we have for conscious pain. The one exception is bees which probably don't feel pain but do feel a form of pessimistic and optimistic
I got stung by a LOT bees in my life and they also feel pain, after their stingers are out they fall to the ground and struggle there running, jumping and kicking their legs frantically before dying they suffer and to me that's more than enough to confirm pain
Also since you mentioned slugs you reminded me... when I was little I stabbed a large slug with a stick and I almost cried afterwards cause it started curling up and trying to reach out for the wound on its back panicked... I realized I made it suffer and felt so bad for doing that so anyone that does say "some animals don't feel pain" are as ignorant as a 7 year old
Everything that is subject to evolutionary pressures feels pain, it's too useful for an organism not to have it. What's really happening is humans quibble about whether or not the secretion of a given chemical or this or that different pain receptor counts as "real" pain because some of us wish we were plants and not subject to the rule that something else has to stop living every time we have a meal. It's understandable but a little embarrassing.
@EidolonKaos that exact reason is why I trust in the science that couldn't find any pain reception in bees - because its evolutionarily advantageous to lose it in their case. If you're a eusocial haplodiploid animal (I'm way too tired rn to explain haplodiploidy for now it just means your siblings in the colony matter more than your offspring to passing on your genes) then sacrificing yourself for the colony without any qualms or hesitation is evolutionarily beneficial. Especially in the case of eusocial bees where dropping their stinger would likely cause excruciating pain if they did have it. What I probably should have mentioned in the original comment is that the experiments that couldn't find any conscious pain in bees only apply to the minority of bee species that are eusocial and don't really say anything about solitary bees.
@@EidolonKaos Your comment is insightful. There is a difference between pain and the emotional response to pain. I think people who claim some animals don't feel "real" pain are conflating the two in how they communicate what they are thinking. This type of research doesn't answer some of the tougher questions we have about animals' different levels of consciousness and self-awareness. A physical or brain activity response to pain receptors is useful for survival, and is probably nearly ubiquitous. Whether emotional trauma is occurring is more difficult to tell. And _then_ we get to the ethical question of whether we ought to accept our status as predators or if we think we should hypothetically have a responsibility to other species that we depend on eating for survival to reduce or eliminate the traumatic elements of being killed and eaten. If we do, then do we also have an obligation to intervene in other predators' activities to make their behavior less traumatic to their prey? Where do we draw the line?
The only time I went to the beach as a kid, we collected sea shells. When we returned home, one got up and started walking. My mother boiled some water, and placed the poor fella in, and I’ll never forget that sound. Poor lil dude
Invertebrates have very different nervous systems to vertebrates, it genuinely was an open question whether or not they experience anything that could be described as pain. That said Im pretty sure it was a question that was answered decades ago
Genuinely believing an animal doesn’t feel pain or fear is just so hard to imagine. Bc how could it have survived this long without knowing to run away from predators or even know when it’s being hurt. Like those two things are there to keep a species from going extinct
Well, it specifically means “pain as we know it”. All living beings must have reactions to avoid harmful things, but there are many different strategies. Plants also have these reactions, but we wouldn’t think their experience of pain is similar to ours. From what I understand, arthropods also have a different experience (thankfully, because the horrors that happen at their scale are mind blowing), but it also comes to no surprise that it is more similar to ours than that of plants.
The answer is the similar to the way humans have survived numbers a crab lays 500,000- 5 million eggs at once. humans don’t know how to run from predators either and we do things that hurt us constantly and we know that it hurts us in the present and the long run but yet we continue to do it anyways. And also the urge to reproduce is what runs the world and what is every animals goal in life.
The experience of pain is an incredible evolutionary trait to avoid death and procreate. For crabs to have been so successful as a species it’s more crazy to think they wouldn’t feel pain.
@@Wheyooo Theory and Scientific Theory are two very different things. If something is considered a scientific theory it basically means that thing is a fact until shown otherwise. You must be trolling, that or you're a creationist.
For an extremely long time we have had a huma-centric worldview thanks to the ego of christianity and the whole "made in gods image" spiel. For the longest time we thought animals operated purely off of instinct rather than conscious thought like we do. Now that we're starting to remove the christian ego goggles we're learning just how unbelievably wrong we were.
ya super weird how we think something to justify another action, it's almost like it's human nature. and if i did not know any better, i would say that people don't tend to like to feeling guilty when cooking food.
@@Mischievous_Mothwhat’s silly is everything else is made in “gods image” just as much as humans. It really is an egotistical way of looking at the universe
@@user-zb8tq5pr4x you don't have to stop you can eat them humanely. Now if you decide to boil them alive that just shows how psychopathic and shitty you are
@@user-zb8tq5pr4x Think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not saying we should stop. I'm saying how silly it was to assume they didn't feel pain in the first place.
honestly I would have been more surprised to find that crab didn't find pain. I never understood why people though that in the first place. Shouldn't living things feeling pain should be the norm unless proven otherwise? eddit : I didn't expect that many comments. Also it seems like not everyone has the same definition of what "pain" is, so maybe the first step would be to agree on a definition.
A lot of insects and invertebrates legitimately can't, and people just extended that to crustaceans on an assumption. The smaller and less complex the animal the less chance that they can feel pain.
@@DirtyMikeandTheBoyz We need to stop eating crabs. It'll anger the crab people and the crab people will turn all the men into homosexuals. Crab people crab people Tastes like crab Talks like people
You put an animal on a plate and increase the heat. When it runs off the plate that means it feels the heat. That isnt just a desire to live alone. It means that shit hurt.
@@dermax4844 no they do, it’s a just a common misunderstanding of a frog’s biology’s. Frogs actually have a very interesting way to deal with heat, and that’s by acclimating their bodies to deal with rising temperatures better, but if you were to throw a cold frog onto a scalding hot pan you’d see an expected pain reaction. There is a video of a frogs acclimation ability on UA-cam, it’s fascinating, I’d recommend watching it.
The test was to make sure it wasn't just wired to an instinctual "move away" response that the animal doesn't understand but obeys. That said, idk why we assumed crabs and fish were in the same category as like- ants that keep working in the middle of a brush fire.
Responding to stimuli does not necessarily equal conscious perception of pain. For example, some plants respond to stimuli, yet don’t possess brains and thus are incapable of consciousness. Watch the video before commenting. There’s a reason that understanding whether an animal can perceive pain in the same way humans do requires hooking their brains up to things that can read their brain activity. Consciousness itself is a difficult to define concept.
It's crazy that this still surprises people. I'm pretty sure most things feel things similar or at least vaguely like we do, give or take a few sensory sensations or thought processes
Right? I've always thought all living beings feel pain. I think people made up the myth that crabs or lobsters don't feel pain so others wouldn't care about boiling them alive
The thing is, having a basic pain response isn't the same thing as being able to experience suffering, because suffering is a qualia, a subjective emotional experience. We know this is an actual thing because some people have a type of brain damage that prevents this: They still feel pain, but don't experience it as unpleasant. It's called pain asymbolia and is completely different from simply not experiencing the sensation of pain. (Analgesia.) In other words, "pain" as we humans think of it isn't just an instinctive reaction to a certain type of stimuli but a complex emotional experience. And last I heard, neuroscience was pretty sure most invertebrates simply do not have nervous systems advanced enough to pull that off. I mean, a lot of them are so simple they can straight up survive without their heads until they starve. More complex animals like cats, dogs, rats, birds, anything that at least has a spinal cord? Sure, absolutely. But creatures like insects, spiders and crustaceans really shouldn't even have the actual hardware needed to feel things like pain or fear, much less care about such things.
@mattyvlietstra5017 yeah, I'm not biologist or expert in any field, but I learned at a pretty young age that pain is a survival mechanism to avoid things that would kill the organism. There are a small amount of humans that're born without pain receptors (or something similar) and they have to be watched constantly because they could easily do something that would kill/grievously harm them because they don't have have the pain receptors telling them not to do it. Even worse, until recently, people believed that babies couldn't feel pain when they were being circumcised. It's all just bullshit to justify our beliefs.
@NbomberExactly, Bugs and fishes also feel pain, but they can't process it the same way as mammals do...in the case of bugs, they react instincitevly, while fishes can show distress after sustaining damages, or avoid areas where they sustained said damage, but this doesn't mean they feel pain like us or dogs, bonding it to emotions...
I think the whole "This animal can't feel pain" thing was an ancient "I don't have to feel kind of guilty for boiling a living thing alive" thing. Like we used for similar quite cruel methods we used to kill, catch, exploit and cook creatures.
Cause we’re smarter than them? What do you expect us to do run around and try to pick up a crab? How is it unethical to catch 6 crabs and eat them for 2 days? How is unethical when I go hunting if I shoot, kill, skin and cook the deer? Why should I have to go to a store and spend a shit ton of money on food every week when I can save 2-3 meals with 1 bullet?
But feeling and pain are two very different things. Of course the crab feel a change in temperature it makes no sense for it to not feel it. It's a surviving mechanism. Other reactions is just instinct and DNA.
My mom's side of the family is from Maryland, and everytime they came to visit we would have a crab feast. We didn't boil the crabs thoguh, no we steamed them alive. You could hear them kicking the pot in distress until they werent. It doesn't surprise me that they feel pain after witnessing that, it does surprise me that scientists took this long to figure it out.
Even doctors used to think that infants can't feel pain, so instead of fully anesthetizing them, they just drugged them to keep still during surgery. Never underestimate the stupidity of the human species.
A crabs biology is vastly different than ours. Not everything feels pain on the complex level like us or most mammals. It is usually driven by fesr or instincts to avlid being touched or eaten. Does necesarily mean it hurts. Just like how many other animals cant feel emotion
Well, it has been known that crabs only have about 100,000 neurons, or 1,000,000x less than humans (100B). One could logically presume from that, that crabs have far less concious awareness to us, and that any "pain" perception they might have is likely just a reflex response. That said, this study may provide a counterargument, although I am not wholly convinced.
Apparently, autism is high in scientists. Autistism stops people from having the theory of mind, which is the idea that others have minds, and of what they are probably thinking. Therefore, it is no surprise that scientists thought that animals didn't have minds or pain! Also, some just want to keep experimenting on them. Some may be sadists. It is possible. Or psychopaths. For intelligent psychopaths, surgeon is the most popular job. Maybe being a scientist is popular with them, too!
I remember going to a place called the lobster shack where they had just a tank of lobsters chilling out by our table. Next thing I know, as I’m watching them, one of them gets grabbed and just tossed in the steamer. As a kid I was mortified
@@denniscrane9753 Turns out that all the literal children who thought boiling an innocent animal alive was wrong were right all along, and all it took was a scrap of empathy. How do you feel? Lmao
@@azazelblackfire816 *Revelation 3:20* Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. HEY THERE 🤗 JESUS IS CALLING YOU TODAY. Turn away from your sins, confess, forsake them and live the victorious life. God bless. *Revelation 22:12-14* And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
All I can think of is that meme where a crab is walking around with Mr Krabs voice going MONEY, MONEY, MONEY. Before getting brutally mutilated by something 😭
I wouldn't classify Maryland shipping out live crabs as a deplorable & inhumane practice..... Also most of the time when crabs are boiled alive is either at the restaurants or in people own homes. Still of whether or not crabs can we feel pain we are already eating other things that definitely can. E.X. cows, sheeps/lambs, deer, rabbit, various fish, various birds, ect......
Not as complex as a humans, that's not how it works. It's like expecting to run and HD signal on SD cables. If they cables aren't designed to pick up the signal they literally don't perceive it the same way. Most species of fish's nervous systems perceive pressure and warmth but not pain. Just calling it "complex" doesn't magically change the science of how it works.
@@toolittletoolate on general scale a crab's brain is still extremely complex, you can't just call anything below you as simple when you're the most complex thing of the bunch.
Hey Kyle, This video isn't up to your standards for science communication. The article cited says nothing about conscious perception, and is only concerned with the existence of nociceptors. The only ethics referenced in the article are the usual considerations for the welfare of the crabs used in the study. What would "brain activity suggestive of a conscious perception of pain" even be? We don't know that yet, and figuring that out would be worth a Nobel Prize.
I do wonder the same thing. But personally if we have no proof on an animal feeling pain or not, I'd rather assume it does feel pain, and treat it accordingly. Just to be safe.
@@AsherKadmiel You have not been the first to question my state of carcinisation, but I assure you, I come from a long line of warrior crabs, each named after a fearsome beast of the wild!
Makes me think of how they sling live Octopi from the stands onto to hockey ice from 100 feet up. The Octopus tentacles rip off and they splatter or try slowly , half destroyed, to slop away. Then they get broomed up, half dead, and thrown in the trash. People say, well they DON’T FEEL it like we do. Yea, Jerry, I think they Do.
Imagine being there when someone shared, out loud in front of people, the idea of ripping tentacles off octopi and throwing them onto the ice. Even if they bought them at the shops already chopped up, it’s still a f’ed up idea to me. I can see the whole ‘shock’ value that might appeal to some people, but at the very least I wouldn’t do such a thing coz I’d feel so bad for the person having to clean that sh*t up. And dead seafood isn’t an easy smell to remove. Argh people.
Okay, so scientists grabbed a crab, strapped it down to a chair, hooked it up to an EEG machine and basically went full CIA declassified document on it? ...which ethics committee cleared this?
I mean, you tortured a couple and saved millions of being boiled alive, if I and my family were saved of being boiled alive by some alien that tortured a cousin I would still be pretty thankful
This is exactly what the west government is doing in Palestine genocide. Killing millions to save a special god chosen people n call it's not a genocide because they r not same as us. I inferior culture or some shit.
@@justanotheremptychannel2472but they didn’t and won’t save millions, and it also didn’t teach us anything we didn’t already know, the idea they didn’t feel pain is crazy at best, it didn’t stop anyone before and it won’t now, best case scenario they will use method B and off them pre boil, but I find that unlikely, like seriously I’m not giving up lobster.
Noticed you offered up your cousin. I bet you'd be thankful if it was you. Or your child. But your cousin? Oh well that doesn't affect me personally so now it's okay. Man.. just so disgusting. I am so completely grossed out by humans, everyone is beyond measure horrible.
@@Mischievous_Moth Yes it is. The % of human that can afford crab is so much lower than people who eat the real thing. If you have eaten imitation crab, it's LITERALLY the same as normal crab - unless the kitchen has messed up somehow, which they usually do because imitation crab you can't really mix with anything and everything. It still supposed to be crab.
Crabs literally chop their own arms off if they get damaged, among other things that they do that look like they don't feel anything. So it wasn't so obvious, chill But yes, boling them alive isn't good
Honestly the boiling alive part is the sole reason I never wanted to try crab or lobster. Felt too cruel to kill and cook something that way. I still eat steak but the cow isn’t cooked while it’s sill alive
Cows still suffer immensely. There may be regulations regarding them, but private slaughterhouses still mostly find ways to either skirt the lines or avoid inspection.
I’m fairly certain everything can feel pain. It’s a natural defense mechanism that tells are body to react to danger. If something doesn’t feel pain it likely would have gone extinct.
Feeling pain and reacting to harm are two different things tho. There's two layers to it. The first part that almost everything has is "this thing is hurting me, so my body instinctively demands I move away from it". The second layer less creatures have is "I have been hurt, I now have an unpleasant feeling warning me that I'm hurt coming from the injury". The belief for a long time has been that crabs don't have the 2nd layer, the "feeling" of pain. But this study shows we might be wrong.
Trees, grass, mushrooms, jellyfish, and flowers are all living things that don't have brains, and thus cannot feel pain. That doesn't mean they can't react to being hurt, but feeling pain and reacting to being hurt are two different things that happen from the same action.
Yet grown adults in the comments are whining about having to reconsider their assumptions and treat animals with even the slightest empathy. People are disgusting
Because of the way they go bad and can cause discomfort, even past the point of survival, for humans, if you don’t. Which should be a red flag to begin with, and some claim that eating such is against God’s word (see also rules of keeping kosher).
@ kosher meat exsanguination is about cutting off the supply to the brain rapidly so the animal never realizes it, and therefore doesn’t fear, and it is as little pain as possible. And we don’t know that it has to do with crabs being scavengers, just that is how they are identified, and therefore avoided.
I seriously don't know why we copped an excuse to boil crustaceans alive because they don't feel pain. Even plants have sensory systems that can register damage done. If a plant has all that, did we really think that crabs don't? It's silly logic to me.
@@lizekamtombe2223That reason is made to lessen the guilt. Plenty of people that have cooked crab before said there is barely any difference between a dead crab being boiled & a live one being boiled.
Don’t eat anything because it’ll be to hard for you to handle Nothing we eat wants you to eat it It’s a fact of life something will harmed for you to eat
@@sevenguardians7517Actually, fruits usually do want you to eat them, because they think you will shit out the seeds somewhere. I don't think vegetables, nuts and herbs care either, as long as you keep their. species alive.
I've brought this up many times before throughout my studies of conversation and wildlife, but there is absolutely no way that a creature that shows distress isn't showing signs of pain. Glad they're finally catching up with common sense.
But does it change anything? I’d argue No. Survival of the fittest. If the crabs were bigger and smarter than us, they would still eat us if they saw fit.
@benjaminrichards6334 Oh it doesn't change anything, no. I'm just surprised it took them so long to figure out something that should have been obvious.
Civilizations forget things they learn often enough. This short "should we still be eating crabs" omits that a lot of other food we eat currently can feel pain as well. Does anyone remember the research done to see how different plants respond to pain?
@JoeCalevroII That's actually an excellent thing to bring up! I took a few courses in how plants experience senses compared to humans, through the Tel Aviv University, and I can absolutely confirm that plants 100% react to damaging stimuli. They tried to make a point that this wasn't quite the same as how we experience pain, but I absolutely argue that a unique reaction that *only* occurs when a plant is damaged most CERTAINLY means that they feel pain. It may not be in the exact same way that we experience it, but you wouldn't get a reaction like that if there wasn't some type of pain involved. If they didn't feel pain, then they would arguably either have no reaction to damage or a reaction that happens due to other stimuli as well.
As someone who has always ADAMANTLY refused to eat things like crabs or lobsters, because I learnt how people cooked them as a young child and was absolutely HORRIFIED. I watched octonaughts regularly, which regularly featured talking crabs and the like. So I just assumed crabs probably actually were like that, and was like "WHY ARE YOU BOILING HIM D:>" Glad to see I was RIGHT.
If it helps, in a lot of countries it's illegal to boil lobsters alive. You can look up if this is the case in yours but in mine it's been common practice for over 20 years for chefs to know how to instantly kill a lobster before boiling it.
Yeah ,we have been boiling crab for years now,why do people even care about if it is ethical or not?If they feel pain they would try to jump out,but because we put it in regular water before the temp go up,the crab pretty much chill until it cooked. We suffer more than animal,why don't people care about how bad this world is,people always compare human to dog, eventhough dog legit do nothing aside from giving you temporary happiness before you back to become a slave in this society , dog or any animals would be like human if they have to study, work and make enough money. Animals are lucky that they either be a livestock or live a carefree life until they died of old age,that why sui* people think gameover themselves is good because once they are gone,they don't need to work and make money just to work again the next day.
I kinda disagree, if its a living being, it can feel pain. The logic is there. I like science, but that doesn't sit right with me saying that "some dont feel pain." Then people do messed up things to the animals. @ZawaOnUA-cam
This is a surprise because people thought they have no pain perception earlier. Even tho many living beings have pain receptors, not every one of them does
@@mrwendigo3374there are many living beings that don't feel pain. Remember that plants are literally living beings. Single celled organism are also living beings. They don't feel pain tho, cause they don't have a nervous system
I'm glad for this win in science and an increase in awareness of the sentientness and consciousness of animals but it pains me to think of what that poor crab was put through.
I'd be surprised if nature had evolved a "stop what is happening IMMEDIATELY" signal that didn't manifest as extreme discomfort. But then again, crabs will tear their own claw off if its injured.
They have a place where the leg separates, much like a lizard tail. Also, if a bear was trying to eat you, wouldn't you rather cut off a limb & escape than die?
@@TheAnimewolfchick I don't think I would be physicaly capable of tearing an entire arm off with the other regardless of the situation. To be clear, I absolutely believe crabs feel pain. Their ability to take an arm off essentially at will just makes me think that maybe that particular action doesn't cause nearly as much pain as it would a human.
@@catmageIt's easier to separate a limb that's already adapted to come off than rip the muscles, tendons and bones of a human arm with your bare hand. Crabs can basically drop their claws at will, without even having to pull.
@@catmage crabs 100% feel pain, but dropping their legs is something they've evolved to do so I really don't think they would have as many nerves in that particular spot- again, like a lizard tail. Or those terrifying mice that lose their skin.
News Flash: Science world catches up to the culinary world- we've been dispatching our shellfish with a knife for like the last 5 years before boiling them. Last I heard of boiling shellfish alive was years ago.
This isn't typical pain, like "own I'm hurt I'm gonna run" it's an awareness of pain. That they can get hurt. That they can inflict pain and pain can be inflicted upon themselves.
@@AJGundam yes which is honestly obvious... Think of this. If you have 100x100 tiles all are black except for 6 white tiles. The white tiles are all white hot. Damn near every animal will quickly learn "white tiles hurt me, avoid white tiles." The dismissal of it has always been irrational. It's like people believing HUMAN BABIES didn't feel pain. Think of plants feeling pain... Tons of people with FULL CONFIDENCE will say they don't... We have repeatedly learned that we are wrong there with plants, that they even communicate with each other about things that hurt them, etc.
@@AJGundam Don't waste your time with these people. They legitimately are smug over the fact that their emotional kneejerk reaction is 'correct'. (Let's ignore the fact that they more than likely partook in PLENTY of crab or lobster in their life without feeling an ounce of guilt) Much in the same way that a man can predict the weather tomorrow and these people would still attribute the rain the next day to be from Rain Sky God. This is the difference between people who don't want to think and people who do. The meme of NPC, cringe as it is, kinda fulfills this purpose. Ask any of these people enough questions and the eventual response is that they don't care to think about things that deeply. Yet their font of arrogance is absolutely profound. Yes, yes. I'm a fedora wearer or whatever. I don't like you people, so who cares
@@AJGundam even if thats the case, it doesnt matter either way, what matters is the reaction to pain, can be as great as the actual pain, in the end its still pain, just a difference of definition in accordance to the english lexicon
People really think sea creatures are a completely separate thing from land animals. Like pescatarians - you won’t eat “meat” because it’s cruel but you eat fish? Do you think fish aren’t animals?
Yeah, but fish are pretty dumb. Mosquitoes are animals too but no one should give a crap about them, because they are too dumb for any meaningful conscious perception of pain. That said, I don't know which fish are truly dumb for conscious nociception and which aren't
I think pescetarians are mostly such because they believe fish is healthier than meat, not for ethical reasons. Personally I'm not a pescetarian but there's also the fact that fish just tastes better than meat when cooked even halfway decently.
@Tomyb15 There's a really good book about nociception, pain, and suffering in fish written by an animal researcher who investigated the issue. It's titled "Do Fish Feel Pain?"
Some would argue that eating any living being is immoral. Many others would argue that hooking an animal's brain up to a computer and torturing it for science is also immoral. Edit: my comment was vague so I will make it clear that I wasn't trying to make a moral judgement on the treatment of crabs. I eat meat so who am who to judge. I honestly don't care about that. I do find it a bit funny to think that some people would be okay with boiling a crustacean alive but only if the readings it gives to a brain scanning science machine is different enough from that of a human to make it okay. If all studies and tests fail to prove crabs feel pain that does not really change anything.
A lot of fucked up things have been done in the name of science. Unfortunately many of those fucked up things have also produced extremely valuable results.
@@kidomniman8635 Thankfully the tests on the crab were fairly minor... They just poked them hard, and applied some vinegar to their soft tissues. ...Unless there's something else I haven't heard about...
If it wasnt seriously harmed/hurt, nor did it die or have permanent damage done on it, and if its done for a humane reason, then its pretty moral or “fine”, and very few people would say otherwise. This borders whataboutism imo.
@Mischievous_Moth I've worked in pest control where some fucked up things get done to get the job done so I'm not judging the scientists. It just seems weird to say that it is moral to boil an animal alive unless it interprets pain in a similar enough way to humans. Just a weird place to draw the line. Even if you could make it the I don't interpret pain at all I would still see the people who boiled me as bad people. Fortunately we don't need to fear the judgement of crustaceans.
I'm surprised this needed to be tested. Isn't it common knowledge that things developed pain receptors to help keep them alive. Like "ouch, that was very uncomfortable, lets not do that again"
There's a difference between an instinctive reaction to pain and a conscious acknowledgement of pain. That was what was being tested, we know that basically every animal interprets pain in some way to stay alive, we're talking a very specific way of feeling pain.
@@sef9526 TL'DR incoming. Think of it this way, it's not a direct 1-to-1 of what's being said but it may make it clearer. If you touch a hot pan you instinctively retract your hand. You aren't sitting there with your hand on the pan going, "Wow, that sure is hot, better remove my hand!" it just happens. But AFTER you've been burned the pain continues and your reaction to it is no longer an instinctive need to immediately remove the source of the pain. Instead you consciously acknowledge that the pain is continuing and go, "Man, I burned my hand and it still hurts like hell. I bet it's going to continue to hurt for days!". You understand what hurt you and you understand that it's going to continue hurting. That's the difference. We know that most if not all living things have a natural way of interpreting pain signals as, "PAIN! GET AWAY!" but we're now understanding that many have the second, a conscious acknowledgement of that pain and its consequences.
@@sef9526 TL'DR incoming. Think of it this way, it's not a direct 1-to-1 of what's being said but it may make it clearer. If you touch a hot pan you instinctively retract your hand. You aren't sitting there with your hand on the pan going, "Wow, that sure is hot, better remove my hand!" it just happens. But AFTER you've been burned the pain continues and your reaction to it is no longer an instinctive need to immediately remove the source of the pain. Instead you consciously acknowledge that the pain is continuing and go, "Man, I burned my hand and it still hurts like hell. I bet it's going to continue to hurt for days!". You understand what hurt you and you understand that it's going to continue hurting. That's the difference. We know that most if not all living things have a natural way of interpreting pain signals as, "PAIN! GET AWAY!" but we're now understanding that many have the second, a conscious acknowledgement of that pain and its consequences.
Hey there salad shooter! That salad you just ate was probably still alive and equally able to have a full-body response to pain stimuli you barbaric monster.
I’m not vegan or vegetarian but have you considered trying it out. Crabs are probably not the only animals that can perceive pain. Like what about baby chickens having their beaks cut off, and being thrown into the grinder for our tasty chicken nuggets almost immediately after being born. That’s pretty cruel right? Or what about the systematic raising and slaughter of cows that bred for the sole purpose of human consumption. We display their organs and muscles in neat packages, so they can be purchased where consumers are kept ignorant of the cruel treatment of the very food they depend on. What’s your reasoning as to why it’s okay for you to eat meat?
@japhalpha i feel like you're doing the bit where you say you're not vegan but you're making every argument for them. Anyway I've seen those docs as well and its unfortunately a toss-up for what's made to shock you and what's real. The unethical treatment of animals processed into food is normally farms that fly under the radar and get shut down anyway. There's no baby chicks being ground up like that but they do have chickens that grow so fast they don't live long, due to hormones and breeding. Luckily we've been able to get our meat from hunting and purchasing a cow to be butchered having more of a hand in the treatment of our food than most. Though when I tend to the chickens I often look at my favorite one and wonder what makes her so different than the rest.
Basically, this is the difference between a cockroach scuttling around after losing its head and a living thing feeling pain like "OH GOD OH FUCK, IT BURNS!!!"
Exactly. These people are completely disgusting. "But what do you want us to do eat tofu instead?" Intentionally missing the point and misrepresenting what was said and pretending like they don't understand what the actual point is. These people are WORTHLESS and horrifically terrible.
@@EliasTheHunter Because there are humane ways to do so and they contain essential nutrients. A nutritionally complete vegetarian diet is more expensive than I can afford.
Asked by a pale softy raised to be weak and get highlights put in his hair to feel cool and don't forget to shave some garden rows in one eyebrow softy.
I remember talking to someone and how strange I found fishing shows. Like imagine if they were lambs rather than fish getting suffocated and bludgeoned to death for television entertainment. They got all offensive and said they're totally different, and thought I was an idiot to ever think this....maybe I am 😄, but they didn't give me any compelling evidence to change my mind.
I think ur onto something. It’s weird how we value different types of animal lives so differently. I don’t think we should be looking for excuses to “value” the life of species type a over species type b, or come up with reasons that obviously cruel practices are justified because some animals don’t have feature a or b. It’s like, just treat all life with the respect it deserves, it’s not that hard to understand.
Fish are way more intelligent than most people think, and im.unsure if studies have been done but personally I believe they consciously feel pain. They are definitely aware of suffocation. You're not wrong or stupid lol
@@twitchy_birdnobody thinks fish don't feel pain, that's why people usually stab them in the brain as soon as they catch them if they plan to eat them to limit their suffering. Also stress makes the meat taste bad but that's separate.
That crab of the experiment had a really bad day though
It's how a lot is science is done unfortunately
Don't look into how we know exactly how much water is in humans
Hope they gave him some… uh, what do crabs eat…. Ice cream. Hope they gave him some ice cream.
@@sandwich2473I don’t know what to look up to find that answer but now I’m curious. How was the study done?
@@sandwich2473 TELL US
@@palmchristmastree dissection of human bodies? Then, like, doing the reverse logic and trying to mathematically find the answer.
I may be wrong. Not looking into it lol.
Crab people crab people walk like crab talk like people.
im glad im not the only person for whom this immediately popped into my head 😂
Craaab people.. craaab people.. craaab people..
What?
Hahaha 😂 I am soh sowwy Kyru but I am starvin' which you rather I eat...Chruttle Frish and Asparagus or Vanilla Pastoh!
@ oh ok
Thanks for the short. Now it's time to get back to the news. AHHHHH, AHHHHHH, AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
😂😂😂😂
Good imitation of the people already living in the middle east.
@@fabiomgm1293not that easy ig
Lmfao
"SKIBIDI BIDEN, SKIBIDI SKIBIDI BIDEN"
Surely, pain was one of the very first senses life developed. The thing that truly freaks me out is how many animals can be truly traumatised by it.
I mean when it’s dead and I’m my stomach it’s not really traumatized
@wardwarf8428 it's cute that you assumed I don't eat meat.
I don't think the issue is if crabs feel pain I think the issue is the opposite if some animals feel no FEAR
John 3:16, "For God so loves the world that he sent his one and only son so that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" I love yall, God bless you in Jesus's name, amen ✝️🙏
@@lloyd9819they never assumed you didn't eat meat. They just brought up that animals can't feel pain when they're dead. The assumption was all you. Cute right?
My father used to work with them on a lab (ecotoxicology, heavy metal poisoning and that) and once, a student had thebrillant idea of feeding crabs bits of octupus tentacles.
The crabs started to jump out of their tank. Like, really scared of it. So they might not only feel conscious pain, but actual fear.
That sounds interesting but how did eating Octopus tentacle instill fear?
@@360entertainment2 Octipi are their natural predators. They probably thought there was a live octupus in the tank coming to get them.
@@360entertainment2it's not the eating octopus tentacles. It's the fact that usually octopus eat crabs and not the other way around and they are really good at that, and just seeing the disembodied still living tentacle was enough to recognise it as a full octopus
Octopuses are really good a hunting crustaceans, last I heard. Of course crustaceans like crabs fear them
That's not fear, that only establishes a reaction to pattern.
I watched crabs trying to escape a boiling pot of water as a kid. Hard to imagine anyone denying they want to avoid pain
Do you think the fear made the meat slightly better? I believe it does
@@ThootenTootinTabootinpretty sure it's proven the chemicals released by fear make meat taste worse, though I'm sure you're simply making a joke
@@ThootenTootinTabootinit actually makes it taste worst. Bc the stress hormones being released
@@PeteysPonderings1220 acquired taste, maybe?
@@stevenmarecle5502wrong
Are we… surprised by this? I never assumed the crabs don’t feel pain. Did people really boil crabs and think it didn’t hurt them?
Pretty sure people who like to eat them come up with absurd rationalizations like "they're stunned immediately by the boiling water"
It's what they were told, and believing that is a lot easier than accepting that you've been inflicting horrible torture on crustaceans for ages.
I think it also goes back to when people thought all animals just ran on instinct and that humans were the only creatures capable of complex thought.
No, we steam them.
Yeah, it was thought they couldn't feel pain for a long time. It has nothing to do with justifying how delicious they are though. Not assumed btw our tech and societal interests were not capable of disproving the theory.
I mean lobsters go unconscious if you flip them upside-down so it's the thought of crustaceans having completely different nervous systems
"Crabs can't scream, it's just air escaping their lungs."
"That's what screams are!"
Technically crabs do not have lungs like we do, but... otherwise, yes.
It would be most logical to assume that pain is the absolute first conscious sensation there is. How better to avoid danger, regardless of how simple the actual creature is. The feeling might even be severely heightened, since there's little capacity for them to feel anything else.
you don't need a mind to avoid "pain", just some nociceptors and an automatic response to "pain".
Pain, as we understand it, is not pain as, say, insects understand it. A part of it is brain capacity. You do need to have a functional enough brain to essentially interpret pain. Insects don't have enough capacity for this and, even more critical, there's no evolutionary need for it. For larger creatures like you, I, and crabs, is that we have a stellar ability to regenerate. Downside? Things can heal wrong. Things embedded in your wound, infections, parasites, anything that you can imagine would hamper your ability to heal while you are conscious.
These are dangers insects, and many animals, don't deal with. This doesn't mean suddenly they automatically don't feel pain, of course! However, we do have animals with an evolutionary template where they are both incapable and disincentivized to understand pain.
TL:DR Not all creatures feel pain because some of us can heal and know pain so we can keep healing. Some creatures cant or heal badly, making it evolutionarily bad to understand the concept of pain.
@@ytunnuytSure which is why we do the research but ethically it seems to me like we should call a spade a spade unless it’s clear a creature actually is unable to feel pain.
They used to think babies didn't feel pain. How stupid is that?
@@Detson404 There is a difference between having nociceptors (i.e. detecting damage) and actually having a "conscious percepction of pain" (i.e. a subjective internal experience). Nothing in this article suggests that crabs have that conscious perception of pain (or any form of consciousness for that matter)
Reminds me of Descartes torturing dogs because the didn't have souls and were just automata mimicking pain
history repeats Itself i Guess
This might surprise you, but not everyone agrees that "souls" are even a thing.
Descartes, as in Rene Descartes? The "I think therefore I am" guy?
What do you mean he tortured dogs.
Why
I'm sure you meant to say Fauci. Referring to the bugle puppies thing.
@@ShaunVillafana No. They mean Descartes.
If you've ever witnessed a crab trying to escape a pot of boiling water, you already know they can feel pain.
Nah, that's just air escaping
But they are delicious
That's just one more reason to do it
Yeah they're delicious, maybe theys should've evolved Into superior life forms like the homo sapien if they didn't wanna end up on our plate.
This is why we just buy crab legs 😅 less moral roller coasters
I imagine we'll soon learn that almost every animal is some level of conscious, just not as overthinky as we are.
There's a reason Gordon Ramsay always dispatched his larger crustaceans when cooking them (specifically Lobsters witn Jeremy Clarkson and king crabs in Norway)
Exactly.
Cuz Gordon Ramsey is an absolute Goat and a True Legend of culinary art 🫡
He’s also pretty vocal about inhumane slaughtering practices in general. He did a couple specials where he visits shark fin fisheries and pig farms and discusses the barbaric shit they do to the animals, and he was disgusted.
@Tsumami__ CORRECT! I remember the sharkfin farm episodes. Damn amazing dude fr
"If you knew how humans cared for animals, you'd go vegan" - Gordon Ramsey loosely, can't remember the exact quote
I always assumed animals were super uncool with being killed and eaten.
I don’t have any issue with farming or hunting.
But boiling anything alive is cruel beyond belief
Too bad they taste good.
@@Deathworm-eg5ltit’s also done as a safety thing, crabs and lobsters basically start decomposing right after death, so they have to be fresh to be safe to eat. Granted boiling alive isn’t necessary, you could kill it first, but people didn’t start this to torture crabs
@ yeah that’s true. But as you said, you can kill the animal seconds before boiling it
Well duh.
shrimps, many insects, spiders and sea slugs (possibly also their relatives cephalopods and land slugs/snails) tend their wounds more so than practical and/or preferentially go for painkillers. Which are some of the best indicators we have for conscious pain. The one exception is bees which probably don't feel pain but do feel a form of pessimistic and optimistic
I got stung by a LOT bees in my life and they also feel pain, after their stingers are out they fall to the ground and struggle there running, jumping and kicking their legs frantically before dying they suffer and to me that's more than enough to confirm pain
Also since you mentioned slugs you reminded me... when I was little I stabbed a large slug with a stick and I almost cried afterwards cause it started curling up and trying to reach out for the wound on its back panicked... I realized I made it suffer and felt so bad for doing that so anyone that does say "some animals don't feel pain" are as ignorant as a 7 year old
Everything that is subject to evolutionary pressures feels pain, it's too useful for an organism not to have it. What's really happening is humans quibble about whether or not the secretion of a given chemical or this or that different pain receptor counts as "real" pain because some of us wish we were plants and not subject to the rule that something else has to stop living every time we have a meal. It's understandable but a little embarrassing.
@EidolonKaos that exact reason is why I trust in the science that couldn't find any pain reception in bees - because its evolutionarily advantageous to lose it in their case.
If you're a eusocial haplodiploid animal (I'm way too tired rn to explain haplodiploidy for now it just means your siblings in the colony matter more than your offspring to passing on your genes) then sacrificing yourself for the colony without any qualms or hesitation is evolutionarily beneficial. Especially in the case of eusocial bees where dropping their stinger would likely cause excruciating pain if they did have it.
What I probably should have mentioned in the original comment is that the experiments that couldn't find any conscious pain in bees only apply to the minority of bee species that are eusocial and don't really say anything about solitary bees.
@@EidolonKaos Your comment is insightful. There is a difference between pain and the emotional response to pain. I think people who claim some animals don't feel "real" pain are conflating the two in how they communicate what they are thinking. This type of research doesn't answer some of the tougher questions we have about animals' different levels of consciousness and self-awareness. A physical or brain activity response to pain receptors is useful for survival, and is probably nearly ubiquitous. Whether emotional trauma is occurring is more difficult to tell.
And _then_ we get to the ethical question of whether we ought to accept our status as predators or if we think we should hypothetically have a responsibility to other species that we depend on eating for survival to reduce or eliminate the traumatic elements of being killed and eaten. If we do, then do we also have an obligation to intervene in other predators' activities to make their behavior less traumatic to their prey? Where do we draw the line?
The only time I went to the beach as a kid, we collected sea shells. When we returned home, one got up and started walking. My mother boiled some water, and placed the poor fella in, and I’ll never forget that sound. Poor lil dude
they dont scream. its water escaping ( the crab.. ) but yea, know whst you mean.
@@bpotter885not sure, I remember once hearing two hermit crabs emiting a chirping/squeaking sound when they were fighting
@@diegojesusmedinalopez3838 Thats a noise they produce when they salivate
So your mom boiled a tiny hermit crab? For what reason? That's psychopathic.
Im surprised this study came to be this late. Who would have guessed animals can feel pain when being boiled alive?
Duh 🙄
Doesn’t stop me from cooking them anyway
@@sevenguardians7517 proud to be an animal abuser?
They probably didn't test it because its a stupid idea
Invertebrates have very different nervous systems to vertebrates, it genuinely was an open question whether or not they experience anything that could be described as pain.
That said Im pretty sure it was a question that was answered decades ago
Well then don't boil them alive
Genuinely believing an animal doesn’t feel pain or fear is just so hard to imagine. Bc how could it have survived this long without knowing to run away from predators or even know when it’s being hurt. Like those two things are there to keep a species from going extinct
Well, it specifically means “pain as we know it”. All living beings must have reactions to avoid harmful things, but there are many different strategies. Plants also have these reactions, but we wouldn’t think their experience of pain is similar to ours. From what I understand, arthropods also have a different experience (thankfully, because the horrors that happen at their scale are mind blowing), but it also comes to no surprise that it is more similar to ours than that of plants.
The video already answered that question. Nociception.
The answer is the similar to the way humans have survived numbers a crab lays 500,000- 5 million eggs at once. humans don’t know how to run from predators either and we do things that hurt us constantly and we know that it hurts us in the present and the long run but yet we continue to do it anyways. And also the urge to reproduce is what runs the world and what is every animals goal in life.
People used to think babies couldn't feel pain. We're not the smartest creatures honestly not sure how we got this far.
@lemon7806 The power of paid labor is what got us this far
The experience of pain is an incredible evolutionary trait to avoid death and procreate. For crabs to have been so successful as a species it’s more crazy to think they wouldn’t feel pain.
But evolution is still a theory
@@Wheyooobro does NOT know what a theory is
Type. Shittttt.
@@Wheyooo Theory and Scientific Theory are two very different things. If something is considered a scientific theory it basically means that thing is a fact until shown otherwise.
You must be trolling, that or you're a creationist.
No one is debating if crabs feel something when something is killing them. We're debating if there's emotions there.
Scientists gave them stimuli which they "thought" would be painful.
Interesting way to say scientists tortured the crabs.
It’s so strange how we often assume something can’t feel pain until proven otherwise rather than the other way around.
For an extremely long time we have had a huma-centric worldview thanks to the ego of christianity and the whole "made in gods image" spiel.
For the longest time we thought animals operated purely off of instinct rather than conscious thought like we do. Now that we're starting to remove the christian ego goggles we're learning just how unbelievably wrong we were.
ya super weird how we think something to justify another action, it's almost like it's human nature. and if i did not know any better, i would say that people don't tend to like to feeling guilty when cooking food.
Let's not forget "babies don't feel pain"
@@Mischievous_Mothwhat’s silly is everything else is made in “gods image” just as much as humans. It really is an egotistical way of looking at the universe
I honestly don’t really care if it feels pain or not I’m still eating it.
The idea that crabs couldn't feel pain seems like one of those old wives tales you get told as a kid so you would feel less bad about eating them.
So what, I don't think anyone will (or should) stop
@@user-zb8tq5pr4x You're so cool and edgy 😂
@@98reivax thank you
@@user-zb8tq5pr4x you don't have to stop you can eat them humanely. Now if you decide to boil them alive that just shows how psychopathic and shitty you are
@@user-zb8tq5pr4x Think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not saying we should stop. I'm saying how silly it was to assume they didn't feel pain in the first place.
honestly I would have been more surprised to find that crab didn't find pain.
I never understood why people though that in the first place. Shouldn't living things feeling pain should be the norm unless proven otherwise?
eddit : I didn't expect that many comments. Also it seems like not everyone has the same definition of what "pain" is, so maybe the first step would be to agree on a definition.
Because lying to themselves is easier than admitting that they've been boiling living creatures alive.
People thought human babies couldn't feel pain and cut off bits of their genitals without anaesthetic.
Even plants have a version of "feeling pain", I've always assumed everything living can.
A lot of insects and invertebrates legitimately can't, and people just extended that to crustaceans on an assumption. The smaller and less complex the animal the less chance that they can feel pain.
Doctors in the past century thought babies can't feel pain.
So it can explain the whole debacle.
So dispatch the crab before boiling it. Got it.
Lol Aquaman pushing Crab propoganda to protect his subjects 😂
Best! I absolutely see it now 🤣
Great. Now I can't unsee it.
Lmaooo damn! Now I see it. 🤣🤣🤣
Yall are indeed welcome 🤣
craboganda
"WHATS THE CHARGE??? EATING CRAB LEGS? SUCCULENT AMERICAN KING CRAB LEGS?"
"Get your hands off of my lobster!!! He tried to touch my crustacean, you know..."
THIS IS SEAFOOD MANISFEST!
@@DirtyMikeandTheBoyz We need to stop eating crabs. It'll anger the crab people and the crab people will turn all the men into homosexuals.
Crab people crab people
Tastes like crab
Talks like people
Imagine it takes 5 police officers trying to put a crab in a boiling pot, and the crab is somehow resisting.
AHHH YES DEMOCRACY MANIFEST!
For a moment, I honestly thought it said carbs, and wondered where the bread was. Then I heard you speak, and it was all made clear.
I like the attitude there, you see science Thor, you listen. I am the same, well I look also but I don't want to make you appear superficial.
Yeaaa I've missed you! Please just keep doing this and keep being cool.
You put an animal on a plate and increase the heat. When it runs off the plate that means it feels the heat. That isnt just a desire to live alone. It means that shit hurt.
So frogs don’t feel pain
Some critters don't run off the plate if you heat it after putting them on it, only if you put them on it after it's hot. Does that count?
@@dermax4844 no they do, it’s a just a common misunderstanding of a frog’s biology’s. Frogs actually have a very interesting way to deal with heat, and that’s by acclimating their bodies to deal with rising temperatures better, but if you were to throw a cold frog onto a scalding hot pan you’d see an expected pain reaction.
There is a video of a frogs acclimation ability on UA-cam, it’s fascinating, I’d recommend watching it.
The test was to make sure it wasn't just wired to an instinctual "move away" response that the animal doesn't understand but obeys.
That said, idk why we assumed crabs and fish were in the same category as like- ants that keep working in the middle of a brush fire.
Responding to stimuli does not necessarily equal conscious perception of pain. For example, some plants respond to stimuli, yet don’t possess brains and thus are incapable of consciousness. Watch the video before commenting. There’s a reason that understanding whether an animal can perceive pain in the same way humans do requires hooking their brains up to things that can read their brain activity. Consciousness itself is a difficult to define concept.
It's crazy that this still surprises people. I'm pretty sure most things feel things similar or at least vaguely like we do, give or take a few sensory sensations or thought processes
Right? I've always thought all living beings feel pain. I think people made up the myth that crabs or lobsters don't feel pain so others wouldn't care about boiling them alive
@@Novvy-o3m seems like a necessary adaptation to survive to pass on your genes the animals with no fear or pain would be wiped out first
The thing is, having a basic pain response isn't the same thing as being able to experience suffering, because suffering is a qualia, a subjective emotional experience. We know this is an actual thing because some people have a type of brain damage that prevents this: They still feel pain, but don't experience it as unpleasant. It's called pain asymbolia and is completely different from simply not experiencing the sensation of pain. (Analgesia.)
In other words, "pain" as we humans think of it isn't just an instinctive reaction to a certain type of stimuli but a complex emotional experience. And last I heard, neuroscience was pretty sure most invertebrates simply do not have nervous systems advanced enough to pull that off. I mean, a lot of them are so simple they can straight up survive without their heads until they starve.
More complex animals like cats, dogs, rats, birds, anything that at least has a spinal cord? Sure, absolutely. But creatures like insects, spiders and crustaceans really shouldn't even have the actual hardware needed to feel things like pain or fear, much less care about such things.
@mattyvlietstra5017 yeah, I'm not biologist or expert in any field, but I learned at a pretty young age that pain is a survival mechanism to avoid things that would kill the organism. There are a small amount of humans that're born without pain receptors (or something similar) and they have to be watched constantly because they could easily do something that would kill/grievously harm them because they don't have have the pain receptors telling them not to do it.
Even worse, until recently, people believed that babies couldn't feel pain when they were being circumcised.
It's all just bullshit to justify our beliefs.
@NbomberExactly, Bugs and fishes also feel pain, but they can't process it the same way as mammals do...in the case of bugs, they react instincitevly, while fishes can show distress after sustaining damages, or avoid areas where they sustained said damage, but this doesn't mean they feel pain like us or dogs, bonding it to emotions...
I think the whole "This animal can't feel pain" thing was an ancient "I don't have to feel kind of guilty for boiling a living thing alive" thing.
Like we used for similar quite cruel methods we used to kill, catch, exploit and cook creatures.
Cause we’re smarter than them? What do you expect us to do run around and try to pick up a crab? How is it unethical to catch 6 crabs and eat them for 2 days? How is unethical when I go hunting if I shoot, kill, skin and cook the deer? Why should I have to go to a store and spend a shit ton of money on food every week when I can save 2-3 meals with 1 bullet?
Delicious, I’d eat them everyday if I could 😜🤤
So edgy gross@@weltraumdrache
They taste good, so I don’t care if they’re in pain
But feeling and pain are two very different things. Of course the crab feel a change in temperature it makes no sense for it to not feel it. It's a surviving mechanism.
Other reactions is just instinct and DNA.
The smell of a freshly mowed lawn is the chemical screams of a million blades of grass.
My mom's side of the family is from Maryland, and everytime they came to visit we would have a crab feast. We didn't boil the crabs thoguh, no we steamed them alive. You could hear them kicking the pot in distress until they werent. It doesn't surprise me that they feel pain after witnessing that, it does surprise me that scientists took this long to figure it out.
Even doctors used to think that infants can't feel pain, so instead of fully anesthetizing them, they just drugged them to keep still during surgery. Never underestimate the stupidity of the human species.
I never knew what warrior cats was before seeing your playlist
I now wish I never learned
@@palmchristmastree
😂
@@palmchristmastree please elaborate
@TheKillerman3333 There's weird things going on in their channel.
Warriors are a good book. Just this dude's a weirdo.
Gee, who wouldve thought that an animal with a nervous system can feel pain besides everyone
A crabs biology is vastly different than ours. Not everything feels pain on the complex level like us or most mammals. It is usually driven by fesr or instincts to avlid being touched or eaten. Does necesarily mean it hurts. Just like how many other animals cant feel emotion
Well, it has been known that crabs only have about 100,000 neurons, or 1,000,000x less than humans (100B). One could logically presume from that, that crabs have far less concious awareness to us, and that any "pain" perception they might have is likely just a reflex response.
That said, this study may provide a counterargument, although I am not wholly convinced.
Apparently, autism is high in scientists. Autistism stops people from having the theory of mind, which is the idea that others have minds, and of what they are probably thinking. Therefore, it is no surprise that scientists thought that animals didn't have minds or pain!
Also, some just want to keep experimenting on them. Some may be sadists. It is possible. Or psychopaths. For intelligent psychopaths, surgeon is the most popular job. Maybe being a scientist is popular with them, too!
Okay, but it's pain@@senseiwu7814
@louisxix3271 that shouldn't matter. It's pain. Pain is pain.
I remember going to a place called the lobster shack where they had just a tank of lobsters chilling out by our table. Next thing I know, as I’m watching them, one of them gets grabbed and just tossed in the steamer. As a kid I was mortified
Fearless huh?
@@denniscrane9753 feeling bad for others is okay.
@@denniscrane9753 Turns out that all the literal children who thought boiling an innocent animal alive was wrong were right all along, and all it took was a scrap of empathy. How do you feel? Lmao
@@nvrndingsmmr hungry for crab legs!
@@denniscrane9753watch out guys we got a badass on our hands here
It's not crab PEOPLE we should be worried about.
"Fear the crabcat!"
-- Hecklefish
this is the first kyle hill video I've actually gotten on my feed despite the hundreds of times I've seen the community posts
Was his voice like how you imagined?
@@serenitysfireflylistening to the short again, yeah, mostly.
“You my good sir, make a good point.”
She said, as she politely dipped a generously seasoned crab leg into her cup of butter.
Oi can I have a spot of tha'?
@@azazelblackfire816
*Revelation 3:20*
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
HEY THERE 🤗 JESUS IS CALLING YOU TODAY. Turn away from your sins, confess, forsake them and live the victorious life. God bless.
*Revelation 22:12-14*
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Oh, thank God for this comment. I was about to have an aneurism.
Mmmm….crab- haven’t had that in a while. Could you pass the sauce?
This the comment I came for
All I can think of is that meme where a crab is walking around with Mr Krabs voice going MONEY, MONEY, MONEY. Before getting brutally mutilated by something 😭
@jrodd13 a caveman spongebob stomps on him and puts him on a stick to roast and eat
thank you youtube shorts Aquaman for giving the little fellas from the sea a voice
“Should we still be eating crabs?”
Maryland: YOU BETTER CONTINUE EATING CRABS! Or we will go broke…..
Maryland should remember the civil war we already had where one side's economy depended on a deplorable and inhumane practice. It's no excuse
What about halal?
Something like 80% of their blue crabs come from Louisiana....
I wouldn't classify Maryland shipping out live crabs as a deplorable & inhumane practice.....
Also most of the time when crabs are boiled alive is either at the restaurants or in people own homes.
Still of whether or not crabs can we feel pain we are already eating other things that definitely can.
E.X. cows, sheeps/lambs, deer, rabbit, various fish, various birds, ect......
@@paulcrandell2198 Glad you recognize the moral bankruptcy of killing and eating those other animals, too
When an animal with a complex nervous system can feel pain 🤯🤯💥💥😵😵🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
And what if it was discovered that the report, that hasn't even been peer reviewed yet, is wrong.
Will you also be as shocked and suprised?
Not as complex as a humans, that's not how it works. It's like expecting to run and HD signal on SD cables. If they cables aren't designed to pick up the signal they literally don't perceive it the same way. Most species of fish's nervous systems perceive pressure and warmth but not pain. Just calling it "complex" doesn't magically change the science of how it works.
@@toolittletoolate on general scale a crab's brain is still extremely complex, you can't just call anything below you as simple when you're the most complex thing of the bunch.
Also the thing about a lot of fish not feeling pain is straight up false
Perception and consciousness are completely different.
Hey Kyle,
This video isn't up to your standards for science communication. The article cited says nothing about conscious perception, and is only concerned with the existence of nociceptors. The only ethics referenced in the article are the usual considerations for the welfare of the crabs used in the study.
What would "brain activity suggestive of a conscious perception of pain" even be? We don't know that yet, and figuring that out would be worth a Nobel Prize.
Finally, a non-regard in this comment section.
I do wonder the same thing. But personally if we have no proof on an animal feeling pain or not, I'd rather assume it does feel pain, and treat it accordingly. Just to be safe.
One day we too shall evolve into crabs, so we better be nice to our future relatives now!
Nice try Aquaman, you can't stop me from ordering your friends
I actually thought this was Jason momoa at the start
dont disrespect my king >:(
😂 he does look pretty similar
"deep. Eat the octopus"
When you order Jason Momoa from Temu 😂
MY FELLOW CRABEOPLE HAVE SUFFERED LONG ENOUGH!
crab named warthog, on scale of cronchy 1-10 how cronchy are you ?
Compelling. Now, get in the boil.
CRABZILLA, RAISE THE FIRST STONE!
@@isaacgirouard5924 Over my dead body! EN GARDE!
@@AsherKadmiel You have not been the first to question my state of carcinisation, but I assure you, I come from a long line of warrior crabs, each named after a fearsome beast of the wild!
Makes me think of how they sling live Octopi from the stands onto to hockey ice from 100 feet up. The Octopus tentacles rip off and they splatter or try slowly , half destroyed, to slop away. Then they get broomed up, half dead, and thrown in the trash. People say, well they DON’T FEEL it like we do. Yea, Jerry, I think they Do.
Wtf who does that or when does this happen? I didn't know about it
@@sakurasfish2115the only team I could find was the Detroit Red Wings but from what I could find they only throw already dead octopi
Maybe throwing live ones was already phased out? Or it's not part of well known teams?
Imagine being there when someone shared, out loud in front of people, the idea of ripping tentacles off octopi and throwing them onto the ice. Even if they bought them at the shops already chopped up, it’s still a f’ed up idea to me. I can see the whole ‘shock’ value that might appeal to some people, but at the very least I wouldn’t do such a thing coz I’d feel so bad for the person having to clean that sh*t up. And dead seafood isn’t an easy smell to remove. Argh people.
Imagine aliens using that excuse to do something similar to us.
Okay, so scientists grabbed a crab, strapped it down to a chair, hooked it up to an EEG machine and basically went full CIA declassified document on it?
...which ethics committee cleared this?
sacrificing one crab for the sake of others. Not sinful for knowledge purpose not mad scientist purpose
The CIA themselves they decide what’s ethical right? If it’s for the greater good. THE NUMBERS CRABSON!
@@Tod_x as opposed to doing that to humans?
"tortured" feels like the missing word in what the scientist did to those crabs 😅
Not the best word to use on UA-cam if you wanna stay on the right side of the algorithm
I mean, you tortured a couple and saved millions of being boiled alive, if I and my family were saved of being boiled alive by some alien that tortured a cousin I would still be pretty thankful
This is exactly what the west government is doing in Palestine genocide. Killing millions to save a special god chosen people n call it's not a genocide because they r not same as us. I inferior culture or some shit.
@@justanotheremptychannel2472but they didn’t and won’t save millions, and it also didn’t teach us anything we didn’t already know, the idea they didn’t feel pain is crazy at best, it didn’t stop anyone before and it won’t now, best case scenario they will use method B and off them pre boil, but I find that unlikely, like seriously I’m not giving up lobster.
Noticed you offered up your cousin. I bet you'd be thankful if it was you. Or your child.
But your cousin? Oh well that doesn't affect me personally so now it's okay.
Man.. just so disgusting. I am so completely grossed out by humans, everyone is beyond measure horrible.
Well, luckily for the crabs, most of the crab consumed by humans isn't even real crab.
Right, isn't imitation crab basically just crab flavored fish or something? I remember hearing something along those lines ages ago.
Apparently the fake stuff tastes better
It still contains crab, just not very much of it. It also has fish in it.
@@Mischievous_Moth Yes it is. The % of human that can afford crab is so much lower than people who eat the real thing. If you have eaten imitation crab, it's LITERALLY the same as normal crab - unless the kitchen has messed up somehow, which they usually do because imitation crab you can't really mix with anything and everything. It still supposed to be crab.
and it's a damn shame, because fresh seafood is so good!
In other news, sky is blue.
I mean he literally just talked about the difference between perceptions of pain. That's why its news.
@@puthenveetilnoeldifferent humans perceive pain differently, it’s not news that different animals perceive pain differently too.
Crabs literally chop their own arms off if they get damaged, among other things that they do that look like they don't feel anything. So it wasn't so obvious, chill
But yes, boling them alive isn't good
Exactly 🤣
@@byrey3 Humans do that too. It's called amputation. You do what you have to do and suffer the pain that comes with it
That family guy lobster joke starts to become more and more relevant
I saw a video of someone RIPPING THE SHELL OFF A LIVE CRAB. It was one of the most fucked up things I've ever seen
It's just a crab bro, part of life. They aren't in our tribe.
@@maxpro751 bro thinks we're at war with crabs
@@maxpro751 Don't be proud of your tribe thinking xD, that's empathy 101
Who gives a shit? You cry when you step on ants too?
@@maxpro751 we're sapient beings bro, we've remade our own lives. As the godlike beings of and from this world, we should be kind to it.
Honestly the boiling alive part is the sole reason I never wanted to try crab or lobster. Felt too cruel to kill and cook something that way. I still eat steak but the cow isn’t cooked while it’s sill alive
You don’t have to boil them alive you know. You can dispatch them more humanely, and many people do.
Bruh
Oh, we're not supposed to boil cows alive? Whoops😅
Many people take it out before boiling it, it really barely changes the taste if at all.
Cows still suffer immensely. There may be regulations regarding them, but private slaughterhouses still mostly find ways to either skirt the lines or avoid inspection.
I’m fairly certain everything can feel pain. It’s a natural defense mechanism that tells are body to react to danger. If something doesn’t feel pain it likely would have gone extinct.
That's my thinking too. Only animals I think that don't are fish but I'm not sure which ones specifically
Feeling pain and reacting to harm are two different things tho. There's two layers to it. The first part that almost everything has is "this thing is hurting me, so my body instinctively demands I move away from it". The second layer less creatures have is "I have been hurt, I now have an unpleasant feeling warning me that I'm hurt coming from the injury". The belief for a long time has been that crabs don't have the 2nd layer, the "feeling" of pain. But this study shows we might be wrong.
Trees, grass, mushrooms, jellyfish, and flowers are all living things that don't have brains, and thus cannot feel pain. That doesn't mean they can't react to being hurt, but feeling pain and reacting to being hurt are two different things that happen from the same action.
@@romanfischer7307 I'm pretty sure when people say "living being", they mean "conscious beings"... not the weird scientifically true term.
@@mindlessscientist3772, and how would that instinct of moving away from harm works?
Im shocked a living creature can feel pain.
Jesus christ, every 5 yr old on the planet can tell you that boiling and torturing things is a terrible thing to do
Please stop taking Jesus' name in vain! It's very disrespectful to us Christians and God alike. Thank you for your cooperation.
Not the Chinese for some reason
Yet grown adults in the comments are whining about having to reconsider their assumptions and treat animals with even the slightest empathy. People are disgusting
@@laszlomarton4919 Dude 💀
And yet, we never stopped to think about it, probably because boiled crab tastes pretty good.
So the fact that they scream when you boil them doesnt give a big hint?
The topic is not about feeling pain.
It’s about knowing that something is going to hurt beforehand.
Thought that was steaming. Can't really hear it if they're underwater.
That's not screaming. It's steam escaping the shell.
They have neither lungs nor a mouth, so I’m not sure how they could scream, Cody.
@@nolanthedudePretty sure crabs have a mouth, Nolan.
I always thought it was plain cruel to boil crabs and lobsters alive
Yeah, and I never understood the point of it in the first place.
Because of the way they go bad and can cause discomfort, even past the point of survival, for humans, if you don’t. Which should be a red flag to begin with, and some claim that eating such is against God’s word (see also rules of keeping kosher).
I'm pretty sure with the crabs it has more to do with them being scavengers. Also kosher meat has to be bled out while alive so...
@ kosher meat exsanguination is about cutting off the supply to the brain rapidly so the animal never realizes it, and therefore doesn’t fear, and it is as little pain as possible. And we don’t know that it has to do with crabs being scavengers, just that is how they are identified, and therefore avoided.
but you eat other animals? hypoctire
No one really cares if it can't speak or make a sound it doesn't feel pain
I seriously don't know why we copped an excuse to boil crustaceans alive because they don't feel pain. Even plants have sensory systems that can register damage done. If a plant has all that, did we really think that crabs don't? It's silly logic to me.
I think the boiling is more to keep them fresh than any other flavour reason.
@@lizekamtombe2223That reason is made to lessen the guilt.
Plenty of people that have cooked crab before said there is barely any difference between a dead crab being boiled & a live one being boiled.
It’s just to justify all the fucked up shit we do in the fishing industry , for the sake of freshness and keeping the value hella high
@@lizekamtombe2223 That's said to be false information. (Maybe a lie)
@@-DEATH_LORD in what way?
Crustaceans spoil rapidly after death and are unedible
I couldn't eat crabs ever since I've known, how they are killed by being cooked alive. It was such a shock to me as a kid.
That’s part of why I’m still not interested in oysters. They don’t die until they hit your stomach acid.
Don’t eat anything because it’ll be to hard for you to handle
Nothing we eat wants you to eat it
It’s a fact of life something will harmed for you to eat
If you cook them, they're dead well before that ... And if you kill them....@@Tea_laBlue
@@sevenguardians7517Actually, fruits usually do want you to eat them, because they think you will shit out the seeds somewhere.
I don't think vegetables, nuts and herbs care either, as long as you keep their. species alive.
@@sevenguardians7517 i know it's a lot to take in, but you'll soon understand what i mean bro.
"Should we still be eating crabs?"
My shellfish allergy
Me eat fake Crabs in sushi
Me: pain no gain 🤤 let's cook
Sucks to suck
We should also stop eating pigs because they feel pain
I've brought this up many times before throughout my studies of conversation and wildlife, but there is absolutely no way that a creature that shows distress isn't showing signs of pain. Glad they're finally catching up with common sense.
I figure the 2 most basic emotions are fear/pain/badfeels and food/mate/goodfeels.
But does it change anything? I’d argue No. Survival of the fittest. If the crabs were bigger and smarter than us, they would still eat us if they saw fit.
@benjaminrichards6334 Oh it doesn't change anything, no. I'm just surprised it took them so long to figure out something that should have been obvious.
Civilizations forget things they learn often enough. This short "should we still be eating crabs" omits that a lot of other food we eat currently can feel pain as well. Does anyone remember the research done to see how different plants respond to pain?
@JoeCalevroII That's actually an excellent thing to bring up! I took a few courses in how plants experience senses compared to humans, through the Tel Aviv University, and I can absolutely confirm that plants 100% react to damaging stimuli. They tried to make a point that this wasn't quite the same as how we experience pain, but I absolutely argue that a unique reaction that *only* occurs when a plant is damaged most CERTAINLY means that they feel pain. It may not be in the exact same way that we experience it, but you wouldn't get a reaction like that if there wasn't some type of pain involved. If they didn't feel pain, then they would arguably either have no reaction to damage or a reaction that happens due to other stimuli as well.
This is like the same thing as a school bully punching you in the face and then saying "man quit crying, that didn't hurt"
As someone who has always ADAMANTLY refused to eat things like crabs or lobsters, because I learnt how people cooked them as a young child and was absolutely HORRIFIED. I watched octonaughts regularly, which regularly featured talking crabs and the like. So I just assumed crabs probably actually were like that, and was like "WHY ARE YOU BOILING HIM D:>"
Glad to see I was RIGHT.
Because Crustaceans like lobster or crabs spoil rapidly after they die and contain a lot of bacteria,so you have to eat them alive or cooked alive
If it helps, in a lot of countries it's illegal to boil lobsters alive. You can look up if this is the case in yours but in mine it's been common practice for over 20 years for chefs to know how to instantly kill a lobster before boiling it.
I don’t eat squids because they’re sentient just like me and now I won’t be eating crab:
Imagine something with a fully functioning brain having a reaction to external stimuli. It's almost like that's exactly what brains do 25/8
They still don't percieve pain anywhere near like humans
I pretty much always assumed this was the case and still ate them so im not losing any sleep over it
Fucking thank you! Jesus Christ man .....
Do chickens , pigs, cows feel pain ?
Yet we still eat them
@hoze1235 who cares they taste good
Yeah ,we have been boiling crab for years now,why do people even care about if it is ethical or not?If they feel pain they would try to jump out,but because we put it in regular water before the temp go up,the crab pretty much chill until it cooked.
We suffer more than animal,why don't people care about how bad this world is,people always compare human to dog, eventhough dog legit do nothing aside from giving you temporary happiness before you back to become a slave in this society , dog or any animals would be like human if they have to study, work and make enough money. Animals are lucky that they either be a livestock or live a carefree life until they died of old age,that why sui* people think gameover themselves is good because once they are gone,they don't need to work and make money just to work again the next day.
Then you better rest up. Our revenge will be absolute.
This is a surprise? Animals feel pain and fear, that's not weird.
There are some that don't because they don't have those brain areas developed
I kinda disagree, if its a living being, it can feel pain. The logic is there. I like science, but that doesn't sit right with me saying that "some dont feel pain." Then people do messed up things to the animals. @ZawaOnUA-cam
This is a surprise because people thought they have no pain perception earlier. Even tho many living beings have pain receptors, not every one of them does
@@mrwendigo3374there are many living beings that don't feel pain. Remember that plants are literally living beings. Single celled organism are also living beings. They don't feel pain tho, cause they don't have a nervous system
Do mosquitoes? Do nematodes? There's a spectrum and people assumed where crabs lie and and are reconsidering that. That's called science.
I'm glad for this win in science and an increase in awareness of the sentientness and consciousness of animals but it pains me to think of what that poor crab was put through.
We all will be crabs soon eventually
There are ways to unalive it humanely.
The ways are very human.
I'd be surprised if nature had evolved a "stop what is happening IMMEDIATELY" signal that didn't manifest as extreme discomfort. But then again, crabs will tear their own claw off if its injured.
Nature evolved nothing.
They have a place where the leg separates, much like a lizard tail.
Also, if a bear was trying to eat you, wouldn't you rather cut off a limb & escape than die?
@@TheAnimewolfchick
I don't think I would be physicaly capable of tearing an entire arm off with the other regardless of the situation.
To be clear, I absolutely believe crabs feel pain. Their ability to take an arm off essentially at will just makes me think that maybe that particular action doesn't cause nearly as much pain as it would a human.
@@catmageIt's easier to separate a limb that's already adapted to come off than rip the muscles, tendons and bones of a human arm with your bare hand. Crabs can basically drop their claws at will, without even having to pull.
@@catmage crabs 100% feel pain, but dropping their legs is something they've evolved to do so I really don't think they would have as many nerves in that particular spot- again, like a lizard tail. Or those terrifying mice that lose their skin.
A lot of living organisms have reactions to mechanical stimuli
News Flash: Science world catches up to the culinary world- we've been dispatching our shellfish with a knife for like the last 5 years before boiling them.
Last I heard of boiling shellfish alive was years ago.
Sadly home cooks are often unaware so it's good to have more research and content about it
What is dispatching?
@@Lachronix killing, they kill the crab via knife to the noggin, or something along those lines.
We marylanders steam live crabs all the time.
@@JT-un7dcy’all suck at cooking then lmao.
Crab with a knife will soon be crab army with swords.
he will rise with his army in sunset
Thank god I now know that hurting animals causes them pain. I figured they were just yelping and whimpering for the hell of it /s
I wonder if pigs, cows and chickens feel pain hmmm
They all do, that’s why I’m vegetarian. Y’all have fun on your tirade
I sure hope they don't have pain
If they didn't want to be eaten, why food shaped?
They do, all animals do, when a tiger eats a goat they feel pain, then why shouldn't we eat them?
This is all so obvious. Pain is a great driver of survival.
This isn't typical pain, like "own I'm hurt I'm gonna run" it's an awareness of pain. That they can get hurt. That they can inflict pain and pain can be inflicted upon themselves.
@@AJGundam yes which is honestly obvious... Think of this. If you have 100x100 tiles all are black except for 6 white tiles. The white tiles are all white hot. Damn near every animal will quickly learn "white tiles hurt me, avoid white tiles." The dismissal of it has always been irrational. It's like people believing HUMAN BABIES didn't feel pain.
Think of plants feeling pain... Tons of people with FULL CONFIDENCE will say they don't... We have repeatedly learned that we are wrong there with plants, that they even communicate with each other about things that hurt them, etc.
@@AJGundamSo they don't _feel_ pain, they're just _aware_ of it...
Ok. 🤣
@@AJGundam Don't waste your time with these people. They legitimately are smug over the fact that their emotional kneejerk reaction is 'correct'. (Let's ignore the fact that they more than likely partook in PLENTY of crab or lobster in their life without feeling an ounce of guilt)
Much in the same way that a man can predict the weather tomorrow and these people would still attribute the rain the next day to be from Rain Sky God.
This is the difference between people who don't want to think and people who do. The meme of NPC, cringe as it is, kinda fulfills this purpose. Ask any of these people enough questions and the eventual response is that they don't care to think about things that deeply. Yet their font of arrogance is absolutely profound.
Yes, yes. I'm a fedora wearer or whatever. I don't like you people, so who cares
@@AJGundam even if thats the case, it doesnt matter either way, what matters is the reaction to pain, can be as great as the actual pain, in the end its still pain, just a difference of definition in accordance to the english lexicon
People really think sea creatures are a completely separate thing from land animals. Like pescatarians - you won’t eat “meat” because it’s cruel but you eat fish? Do you think fish aren’t animals?
Some kinds of fish are actually more intelligent and socially capable than some kinds of livestock.
Yeah, but fish are pretty dumb. Mosquitoes are animals too but no one should give a crap about them, because they are too dumb for any meaningful conscious perception of pain.
That said, I don't know which fish are truly dumb for conscious nociception and which aren't
I think pescetarians are mostly such because they believe fish is healthier than meat, not for ethical reasons.
Personally I'm not a pescetarian but there's also the fact that fish just tastes better than meat when cooked even halfway decently.
@Tomyb15 There's a really good book about nociception, pain, and suffering in fish written by an animal researcher who investigated the issue. It's titled "Do Fish Feel Pain?"
Some would argue that eating any living being is immoral.
Many others would argue that hooking an animal's brain up to a computer and torturing it for science is also immoral.
Edit: my comment was vague so I will make it clear that I wasn't trying to make a moral judgement on the treatment of crabs. I eat meat so who am who to judge.
I honestly don't care about that.
I do find it a bit funny to think that some people would be okay with boiling a crustacean alive but only if the readings it gives to a brain scanning science machine is different enough from that of a human to make it okay.
If all studies and tests fail to prove crabs feel pain that does not really change anything.
A lot of fucked up things have been done in the name of science. Unfortunately many of those fucked up things have also produced extremely valuable results.
@@kidomniman8635 Thankfully the tests on the crab were fairly minor... They just poked them hard, and applied some vinegar to their soft tissues.
...Unless there's something else I haven't heard about...
If it wasnt seriously harmed/hurt, nor did it die or have permanent damage done on it, and if its done for a humane reason, then its pretty moral or “fine”, and very few people would say otherwise. This borders whataboutism imo.
@@Mischievous_Mothahh so there ends DO justify the means thank you
@Mischievous_Moth I've worked in pest control where some fucked up things get done to get the job done so I'm not judging the scientists.
It just seems weird to say that it is moral to boil an animal alive unless it interprets pain in a similar enough way to humans.
Just a weird place to draw the line.
Even if you could make it the I don't interpret pain at all I would still see the people who boiled me as bad people.
Fortunately we don't need to fear the judgement of crustaceans.
This is like reinventing fire millions of years later
I'm surprised this needed to be tested. Isn't it common knowledge that things developed pain receptors to help keep them alive. Like "ouch, that was very uncomfortable, lets not do that again"
There's a difference between an instinctive reaction to pain and a conscious acknowledgement of pain. That was what was being tested, we know that basically every animal interprets pain in some way to stay alive, we're talking a very specific way of feeling pain.
@@Goldenkitten1 Yes, saying they are testing for pain sensation is a bit misleading, probably better to say they are testing whether they can suffer.
I'm not sure what's the difference. If anything, pain, by definition, needs to be acknowledged in order to be useful.
@@sef9526 TL'DR incoming. Think of it this way, it's not a direct 1-to-1 of what's being said but it may make it clearer.
If you touch a hot pan you instinctively retract your hand. You aren't sitting there with your hand on the pan going, "Wow, that sure is hot, better remove my hand!" it just happens. But AFTER you've been burned the pain continues and your reaction to it is no longer an instinctive need to immediately remove the source of the pain. Instead you consciously acknowledge that the pain is continuing and go, "Man, I burned my hand and it still hurts like hell. I bet it's going to continue to hurt for days!". You understand what hurt you and you understand that it's going to continue hurting.
That's the difference. We know that most if not all living things have a natural way of interpreting pain signals as, "PAIN! GET AWAY!" but we're now understanding that many have the second, a conscious acknowledgement of that pain and its consequences.
@@sef9526 TL'DR incoming. Think of it this way, it's not a direct 1-to-1 of what's being said but it may make it clearer.
If you touch a hot pan you instinctively retract your hand. You aren't sitting there with your hand on the pan going, "Wow, that sure is hot, better remove my hand!" it just happens. But AFTER you've been burned the pain continues and your reaction to it is no longer an instinctive need to immediately remove the source of the pain. Instead you consciously acknowledge that the pain is continuing and go, "Man, I burned my hand and it still hurts like hell. I bet it's going to continue to hurt for days!". You understand what hurt you and you understand that it's going to continue hurting.
That's the difference. We know that most if not all living things have a natural way of interpreting pain signals as, "PAIN! GET AWAY!" but we're now understanding that many have the second, a conscious acknowledgement of that pain and its consequences.
Imagine thinking you need to be aware of your awareness of pain in order to feel it 😭
Hey there salad shooter! That salad you just ate was probably still alive and equally able to have a full-body response to pain stimuli you barbaric monster.
Everything evolves into crabs so we will eventually run out of food if we do
Y'all didn't know killing things hurts them?
I remember hearing they can experience happiness and ever since finding Howie the Crab I've wrestled with the thought of eating crab.
I’m not vegan or vegetarian but have you considered trying it out. Crabs are probably not the only animals that can perceive pain. Like what about baby chickens having their beaks cut off, and being thrown into the grinder for our tasty chicken nuggets almost immediately after being born. That’s pretty cruel right?
Or what about the systematic raising and slaughter of cows that bred for the sole purpose of human consumption. We display their organs and muscles in neat packages, so they can be purchased where consumers are kept ignorant of the cruel treatment of the very food they depend on.
What’s your reasoning as to why it’s okay for you to eat meat?
@japhalpha i feel like you're doing the bit where you say you're not vegan but you're making every argument for them. Anyway I've seen those docs as well and its unfortunately a toss-up for what's made to shock you and what's real. The unethical treatment of animals processed into food is normally farms that fly under the radar and get shut down anyway. There's no baby chicks being ground up like that but they do have chickens that grow so fast they don't live long, due to hormones and breeding. Luckily we've been able to get our meat from hunting and purchasing a cow to be butchered having more of a hand in the treatment of our food than most. Though when I tend to the chickens I often look at my favorite one and wonder what makes her so different than the rest.
@EliasTheHunter yes
Basically, this is the difference between a cockroach scuttling around after losing its head and a living thing feeling pain like "OH GOD OH FUCK, IT BURNS!!!"
Remind me in 15 years.
I asked my pet hermit crabs if eating crabs was okay. They said only if you share with us. Please send all your crab cakes to my hermies.
I ruined the 69 likes
Edit: nvm someone unliked as soon as I liked it
Anyone who has boiled crabs and lobsters alive has heard their screams.
They can scream?
@zombiekila187 More like a high-pitched hissing sound but basically their way of screaming.
@PlanetParasite im curious but sounds a bit haunting.
"It cant feel pain" is usually just an excuse for cruelty
100%. People are just sadistic but justify their behavior
Exactly. These people are completely disgusting. "But what do you want us to do eat tofu instead?" Intentionally missing the point and misrepresenting what was said and pretending like they don't understand what the actual point is. These people are WORTHLESS and horrifically terrible.
Did people think they didn't feel pain? How could anybody think that? Not gonna stop me from eating them but I would never boil one alive.
TLDR crabs aren't mammals, they have different nervous systems, it's possible that they didn't feel pain.
@@EliasTheHunter Because there are humane ways to do so and they contain essential nutrients. A nutritionally complete vegetarian diet is more expensive than I can afford.
@@froxdoggaming3385why would pain not exist if pain is the best way to alert an animal of something hurting it?
@@peeperleviathan2839because their system isn't complex. Really isn't that hard to understand
If reading the Stormlight Archives has taught me anything, fighting crab people is probably a bad idea.
To be fair, I don't see any of us walking around with Sunraiser any time soon
I was NOT expecting this comment, but you're 100% correct
Asked by a pale softy raised to be weak and get highlights put in his hair to feel cool and don't forget to shave some garden rows in one eyebrow softy.
I remember talking to someone and how strange I found fishing shows. Like imagine if they were lambs rather than fish getting suffocated and bludgeoned to death for television entertainment. They got all offensive and said they're totally different, and thought I was an idiot to ever think this....maybe I am 😄, but they didn't give me any compelling evidence to change my mind.
I think ur onto something. It’s weird how we value different types of animal lives so differently. I don’t think we should be looking for excuses to “value” the life of species type a over species type b, or come up with reasons that obviously cruel practices are justified because some animals don’t have feature a or b. It’s like, just treat all life with the respect it deserves, it’s not that hard to understand.
Fish are way more intelligent than most people think, and im.unsure if studies have been done but personally I believe they consciously feel pain. They are definitely aware of suffocation. You're not wrong or stupid lol
@@twitchy_birdnobody thinks fish don't feel pain, that's why people usually stab them in the brain as soon as they catch them if they plan to eat them to limit their suffering. Also stress makes the meat taste bad but that's separate.
They want evidence to be compelling not compelling evidence...
Have you never seen a hunting show?
Wdym "Oops"? I thought that was the whole point
I can feel pain, and that has never stopped a crab from pinching me.
Yeah cause humans are giant and predatory
well, yeah, but they also don't know any better. Bringing yourself down to the level of what's effectively a big bug is a little self-deprecating.
Then don’t grab a crab and get pinched dummy
Man find crab.
Crab taste good.
Man eats crab.
Life