@@Nidhoggrr holds up map of Middle earth drawn in crayon, by someone who has never seen or read LoTR but only had it described to them in the form of interpretive dance.
The drip feed of codexes does not benefit the games quality of life in any way, and the idea that we aren’t getting any new codexes this year when more than half the codexes still aren’t out yet is frankly pathetic
@@devonwilson8306 Even Worse Tsons will be an antagonist in Space Marine 2, the game that will bring many new faces to the hobby and they haven't even announced their codex? Does GW understand building on publicity and hype? Does their marketing team and codex team both only drink from lead cups?
Tbh this is a big part of why I just can't get myself interested in even trying the game itself, despite really loving the lore around Orks and some of the major characters. If I can't know what to expect from a game, especially one as expensive to get into as WH40k, I'm just gonna... not.
Drip feeding and hinting is the worst business and release plan ever. And I don’t know why GW swears by both so much. The space marine video game has a more interesting road map than the thing it is based on.
Ha ha I remember back in the day when GW basically told you nothing other than go fuck yourself, lol, these "Road Maps" would have seemed amazing back then.
For their business drip feeding works. Its unfortunate. Same reason the imperium and Space marines get so much crap. While I firmly believe that they should just make all the rules available for free, GW does not. By drip feeding these stupid books they have a predictable source of income each fiscal quarter.
Exactly. They sell plastic toys and act like they sell designer diamond jewelry or something. Keeping releases secret like anyone outside the hobby cares 😄
Theyre getting lazy cause they have insane profits. Big corpos will have a new head of economy, every year. And every year their task will be cutting costs by a specific %(usually its around 2-4%) and thats what you see now. The results of this policy after decades of it
If we're being honest, they're probably spreading their game teams far too thin to the point of just total irrelevancy. We already know the teams compete with each other, and I know there's a popular rumour that 40k doesn't even get its own dedicated 'team' but pulls from all the other teams as one big project. You account for the fact that they now have FIVE massive mainline game teams (40k, AOS, HH, OW, LOTR) and it's no wonder they can barely keep pace - they released 40k 10th, AOS 4th, HH 2nd, OW 1st and then killed Forgeworld which was the backbone of LOTR. All that in 2 years. Unless they massively expanded their design team in two years (which I doubt) there's no way they could feasibly handle that kind of weight, especially when you factor in all their small-scale games which all seem to be doing great comparatively. I imagine they're just going to take the next few months to restructure their internal logistics and expand their teams, using the Christmas period to focus on manufacturing and using battleforce boxes to buy back some PR. Because if not... well, at least AOS is doing fine.
@@Delta44115 theyre not spreading themselves too faar, too thin. theyre lazy. they could roll out a new army for every faction AND have lore for them, for EVERY MAINLINE. if they wanted to. within a year. its not a small business that struggles to get by. it doesnt cost em $4 million a year to hire one writer. they got the capital.
They'd rather release stuff weekly at the cost of quality, than focus on fortnightly or even monthly releases that have been refined... its getting ridiculous. Especially with the Imperial Agents book recently... because by god was that the worst book gw has ever made.
Tbh I’m completely convinced that this was just an investor presentation that got shown. EDIT: I didn’t connect these dots before but a lot of stuff have been out of stock for months on the webstore. And now that GW confirmed that the only new release will be the new killteam boxset and a blood-angels box that’s just 2 characters, an upgrade sprew and some old stuff. I think it’s safe to assume that there’s some massive production issues going on behind the scene. (And that’s not even mentioning the as of yet unconfirmed rumors that an entire codex got pushed back to be rewritten)
More specifically all the executives/investors who barely even know what GW does as a company and just want to know if there are plans to make them more money, regardless of what those exact plans are.
Does anyone feel more and more reveal shows lack the real feeling of excitement or authenticity? It feels more like a shallow and fake corporate thing, with no passion.
Honestly they are id rather a few big announcements a year announcing everything each game system has in the pipeline dates etc when boxsets will release when older models will be removed when newer kits will release the way they do it is so uninformative & an outright a mess the communication is just awful from gw
Those roadmaps read like they were more for an internal audience. Plus the 'upcoming' stuff that wasn't 2025 was stuff they'd released. Tbh it seems like they forgot about the Nova Open and just pulled out old PowerPoint notes that were used in meetings
The way the old one is phrased makes me think this is 100% true. “Launched to a dedicated fan base” that’s not a selling point to the customer, that’s a selling point to management to say, “yes, we know it’s not selling as well as the others, because it’s targeted towards a more niche audience.” That’s not something you tell your customer, that’s what you tell your boss
Writing BAD in caps on the thumbnail is the equivalent of crack for the algorithm lol. Totally agree btw. Strong feeling that some bright spark in Leadership decided GW needed a Roadmap graphic, without anyone thinking about what the actual content would be
I think the answer is relatively simple: Upper management at GW told the marketing/Warhammer+/social media people "Nova is coming up and we always do a reveal stream so we have to do one this year too, but you're only allowed to talk about X, Y and Z" and then the marketing/Warhammer+ social media people had to figure out how to make something out of basically nothing. Think of it like Rings of Power, where Amazon had to make a story without being able to use any of the content from the period they wanted to set the story in so they just had to try and cobble together whatever they could.
Thats still a massive blunder from marketing then. If you have a sad and disappointingly small announcement dot the love of god dont hype it up so much
@andrewanderson1988 that makes sense, but only makes the disappointment more intense. At this point I want 3D printing to go crazy just to force GW to up their game.
"Army Boxes - Heroes - Plastic - Metal - Resin" is so fucking funny, it's like if there was a Magic the Gathering preview that promised "Booster Packs - Precon Decks - Cardboard" like yeah no shit. Though WotC give GW a run for their money in incompetence these days so I wouldn't be that surprised to see it.
This is GW's new tactic they've been implementing for a while. The deliberate lack of information happens on all their social media. Also happened to Warhammer+ Thats because GW is a sinking company that sees customers as a nuisance they have to deal with. They are not excited about their own products, they only care that it sells. They have no incentive to communicate transparantly but have every incentive to keep people on the hook/hypetrain even if based on completely false assumptions. The goal is to keep customers in a constant state of anticipation but not being held accountable if they dont deliver.
Dang, you think GW is sinking? I mean in quality, maybe, but dang, the whole thing? It seems like they are doing ok fiscally, but I've definitely seen some loss of character.
What does it mean that "with a lot happening in 2024 we're going to take a break?" I mean is there a lot happening or are they taking a break. It can't be both. GW's production capabilities are so bad at this point that they just cannot deliver anything else for the remainder of the year, and it's still just August. 10th edition is already in a not great place, and this is NOT going to help. EDIT: I guess we now know whey the canceled that previous preview show at the US Open. They knew even then that Blood Angels was it for the remainder of 2024 and that nothing else was coming until 2025.
Bro, we got 4 months of the year left. To say there is nothing else to reveal in 2024 is vexing. You still got the imperial guard, aeldari, druhkari, both imperial and chaos knights, space wolves, votann, the 3 existing chaos specifically aligned marines along with Emperor's Children to be introduced... You don't have time to dilly-dally with everything you got left to do in this edition! And that's JUST 40K!
In pure numbers: It's 12 factions still missing their codex, 13 if you count Emperor's Children. At their current pace, how are they supposed to cram all that stuff in 2025? My biggest hope is, that they break their shitty 3 year cycle and give the edition some time to settle before they announce 11th, otherwise some factions might even have less time to play with their codex than World Eaters had in 9th.
@@y2j1490yahoo Yes, Guard had it bad, too. I think World Eaters was even more outrageous though because it was a new army, nobody had enough models to field a whole army (even with old Berserkers) of them and there were massive supply issues at the time, so most people also couldn't get their hands on the models, unless they were willing to pay silly scalping prices. So, even if you were lucky enough to get your hands on the models and were an incredibly fast painter, you had maybe two months tops to actually play the army. At least with Imperial Guard, a lot of people already had standing, playable armies and could dive right in.
i find it bordering on insulting to fill like half a screen with stuff they released only bc it'd be too empty without. i'm 90% certain thats the reason they did it. it's okay if they can't say whats going to come. i mean, who knows whats going on there. it's another sign that SOMETHING is wrong at gw. like the whole pretty terrible state 10th launched in, the lackluster anniversary show, terrible codexes and now this. i get why they dont want to explain exactly WHAT it is, but dont take us for fools pls.
They could have literally foreshadowed future releases with some dark silhouettes of upcoming models. They could have combined monthly teasers into a suggestive jigsaw, giving people more information without outright revealing what is coming.
my thoughts exactly. and tbh, the problems are apparent since start of 10th at the very least. they had a backlog of things to release, and now they've run out and there is nothing left. at least it appears like it. that could also be the reason the last reveals were so dissapointing, too. they just had to stretch out what little was ready at the time
They mention in the Old World article that High Elves are/were delayed, and they also said the Galrauch mini was delayed but is returning, so it's obvious that all the various issues they've been suffering over the last few years has reached critical mass. Something must have gone very, very wrong recently because the fact that 40K, their flagship game, will only have Blood Angels in four months is telling.
My favorite was Warcry’s “roadmap section” where they said “oh hey, we launched this thing we talked about months back finally that people wanted!” And then just moved on. That game is dead within the year, calling it now lol.
All this tells me is that either these "roadmaps" were made last minute, or that not much is actually scheduled for release. Its just so vague it tells me the people who made it don't know when things will be coming out
GW is needs to get their shit together and stop fucking around with its customers, they have alot of problem that needs addressing and none of them are being fixed or looked into. Such as pricing, production, P.R, transparency, and alienation of former strong fan base including extra media products like their video games and t.v show deals.
This smacks of someone saying “Hey, you gotta announce something BUT you’re not allowed to know what’s coming up.” Maybe they’re scared of leaks, maybe development is going haywire across the board, or it’s just general incompetence.
I think this is an indication of their production woes. It's a billion-pound company being run out of a one-bedroom apartment. They have needed to expand for a decade, they're congested in the factory with things stacked on top of each other. "What's coming next? dunno, really. Depends on what we have room for next week!"
What's really baffling about all this is that the previous roadmaps they put out for 40k 10th edition and Horus Heresy were really really good and informative, positive changes to how they did things. Over the last few months though they've now actually gone *backwards* as a company in terms of how they communicate and roll things out, in so many ways.
These roadmaps feel like they were ripped out of a shareholders PowerPoint presentation. And those were made with the idea: 'keep it short and simple, shareholders don't care or know anything about the company, but we have to do a bit of what we will be doing. '
Eh. Aside from the two Horus Heresy games, the road maps were about what I expected. Hell, I honestly am shocked they said Krieg and Aspect Warriors were coming so far in advance. Very un-GW. But yeah, the Horus Heresy road map is pretty bad. It doesn't bother me, a Legions Imperialis player. Every six months a new campaign book and some models will release, and I will buy at least some.
This screams of corporate skullduggery. Something along the lines of the production director trying to justify poor sculpt quality and production delays with a snazzy 10 minute power point, and then being told to collaborate with the marketing team to format a roadmap presentation. My guess is that most of this stuff is still stuck in the concept phase, with the overall development and production wings of the company suffering burnout from what seems like a nonstop mini and rules mill, though this is all speculation.
The problem was that the marketing for the "show" said: "We're gonna do a new kind of entirely roadmap-specific show!" And then they proceded to show the worst and least detailed roadmaps they've ever done. No, in fact that didn't show them at all, you had to go to their website for most of the actual info.
What sucks is that we had a good road map for heresy last year that made actual sense. These are just “nothing else new this year, new stuff next year”
Did they fire the previous Horus Heresy roadmap designer? Last year HH had a very informative roadmap with seasons where winter was like "new legion characters, a new faction" and spring was "New Command squad, New tanks". You knew somewhat what was coming for like 6-9 months ahead and in which order as well. Why is GW returning to the old Keeper of Secrets way of thinking?
To be fair I don't think the NOVA Open was really very good tbh. Stormcast got some new stuff. That's about it? All they did was talk about what they'd released over the last couple of years, and promise there'd be more Eldar stuff.
It was structured like a shareholder meeting for public relations, we did all this stuff to make money last year, we will make more of this stuff to make money next year. It may in fact be the same presentation with the accounting information removed.
Us: are we going to be seeing lots of new models and detailed information about what’s coming up? GW: even better! Some vague JPEGs and reminiscing about what we released! Us: half of the road map is dedicated to what we’ve already had? GW: that’s part of the road map! It’s just the part we’ve gone past
My best guess as to why they specified the materials the old world models would be made of: The same reason so much of their old world stock has sold out: they weren’t prepared for how popular the game is (despite the fact that they’ve had Total War games providing advertising for years). I get the impression that they threw that card together quickly. They simply needed to fill empty space with some non-specific info
My honest opinion. All the delays Agents leak: gw allowed printer finish up what they had and killed all the future contracts. The delay in releases is now due to lead time of getting a new printer up and running. BA and a few others were already with the printer.
They wanted to do the new road map thing without committing to the road map part It give me the vibes of a old guy looking at what the younger gen are doing without really understanding why or possibly willing to commit to it
What would be nice for Imperialis, is units being available for sale, since a lot of core units from launch haven't been available for 9 months so far, unless you want to double up on a lot of redundant units with the battle force they released.
@4:44 The Heresy reveal reassured me that some of the 'expert kit' (forge world) resin tanks that are now 'no longer available on line' will be returning in plastic next year. Maybe they've made the sensible decision to slow the pace of releases so they can actually keep their websites stocked.
With you going over it Kirioth, I just realised that these are likely slides for shareholder meetings, that they just used for people who are actually interested instead. Who else would need to know what they've done, and what materials they use. There's clearly a whole script that explains it, but that's not for the Nova preview to know, only shareholders.
Who tf needed GW to tell them that new codexes are coming out in 2025 and that there will be more tanks and chaos... who the hell reacted to that information like, "woah no way"
The Horus Heresy roadmap reads more like "Tanks for the money, now we are starting to wrap up this game" to me. At least the Warhammer the old world specified a couple of factions like 40k and AoS did. With the exception of the little bit of Blood Bowl and LotR we didn't hear really anything about some of the smaller games roadmap wise so they could be on the chopping block already.
What surprised me the most is that the roadmaps didn't actually match what was discussed in the preview show. The show didn't mention a knights codex for 40k but it appears on the roadmap. Similarly the Heresy show was somewhat interesting as they said how their big focus would be on converting core legion units to plastic, which is something a lot of the community were really hoping for. They also mentioned that much further down the track they will look at doing legion specific plastic kits which was also really surprising to hear. But those statements I guess were about things too far in the future to be roadmap article worthy.
I wonder if they have overextended themselves somewhat. They've got quite a few major game systems now that require more than a few models to play: 40K, AoS, Old World, Horus Heresy, LotR With Old World it has been especially noticable that they are not keeping up with demand.
I think marketing was all geared up for a big post-skaven update, then the production team told them "We're making old combat partols for the magazine subscriptions over the next 6 months... You're not getting anything"
There is also a basic problem with their "road maps". If I want to get from point A to point F, on most things that produce maps, a line is drawn leading from A to F. A to B, B to C, C to D, etc. These do not do that. One line starts at A("So Far") and proceeds to the bottom, takes a sharp turn at C("And Beyond") and crashes right into F, which is at the bottom of a second line coming the other way from the top of the page(D). So they actually read A to B to C to F to E to D. No wonder no one can understand this company.
Thinking about it, the roadmaps feel more like a presentation at a GW board room meeting - "here's what we've done, here's what we're thinking about doing next" all incredibly vague to avoid locking themselves into any kind of real timeframe they could be held to.
A roadmap usually implies a vague or clear timeline breaking down releases and what those releases will contain. This was literally just a "Stuff is coming this year and next year. That is all."
I agree with the future info was grossly lacking. But for the showing what has happened this year, as a person who is new and trying to learn, it's actually helpful, you have to make new players who just got into it feel welcomed too.
The codex roadmap for each edition just feels so so simple. Codexes come out in pairs every 2 months, staggered if theyre desperate for maximum engagement, with a box/starter set of both armies combat patrol style in one box with a short but meaningful setting that can be used to start narrative campaign or for new players to have fun on the table with their starter sets. Sets are organised into: SM faction vs Choas faction Non SM imperial faction vs Xenos faction SM faction vs Xenos Faction Non SM imperial faction vs Chaos faction SM faction vs Choas faction Non SM imperial faction vs Xenos faction SM faction vs Xenos Faction Non SM imperial faction vs Chaos faction SM faction vs Chaos faction Non SM imperial faction vs xenos faction And then pair off the rest. Sell the codexes separately, make the starter set literally 2 new versions of combat patrol, have combat patrol rules in there and boom you literally serve everyone in half the time.
when I was going into the releases I was expecting specific dates to be announced, instead I get "sometime before end of the year" and "next year we plan to release more models" yeah no shit GW, but WHEN.
i don't like how little it tells us, but I do like that they're changing things less. I don't want to buy an army just for it to be obsolete (or at least needing changes) the next month.
Im so happy I made the switch to One Page at the start of the year and completely ducked 10th entirely. Been so happy printing unique flavors of armies to tool around with.
The “we will continue running our business” announcement is causing a lot of equations that are answered by the “we will continue running our business” announcements
I can understand the "no dates" thing, what with the whole manufacturing problems they've been having. What I don't understand is not laying a few teasers for upcoming, hotly demanded, things. Even if you ball park an extremely loose range, people would go wild if they knew 100% that - for example - an Emperor's Children line was in development for 40k, or if a Kislev line was being developed for TOW.
GW is terrible at marketing, marketing is finding out what the market wants, EI the customer. GW is good at advertising, which is showing off what its selling.
The preview for roadmaps was unneccesary!! Like they ended up doing, putting them up on WH community is all they needed to do. And quite honestly all blood angels reveals over the past month or so could have just been saved for this preview show instead like they should have done. Hell the WH+ minis could have been added to this to make the preview that much more enjoyable as sad as that sounds haha. The ONLy thing that has me excited about these roadmaps is the AoS one with Slaves to Darkness coming up soon to finish off the year for AoS 4th ed.
Age of Sigmar roadmap implies that "all factions" will get something in 2025. If all factions actually get their rules in 12-18 months of a new edition being released, that would be an amazing improvement for GW.
Arent there only 9 non-legends factions in old world? So if 5 have released, and we're getting empire and high elves next year + "more factions" (which is plural) then that means we'll get 4 next year, so that's just the rest of the factions.
The word I think he's looking for is "regurgitated" I looked at the "roadmap" and it's worse that that Kirioth...... If you count by sentences on each bracket more than 3/4 of the "roadmap" is either nothing or stuff that was done either earlier this year or last year. In essence GW, like a stray cat has dropped a large dead thing at our door earlier this year, acts like it's an achievement and gave us the "there's more where that came from" emote.
The hype up of road maps to get what we got last night and it not be more fleshed out is where I think the dissatisfaction comes from like why would i watch another live event and not just wait until the morning.
Feed back from customers: 'Roadmaps please.' GW discuss in private 'Not going to happen, would ruin FOMO.' GW in public, 'These are your roadmaps - we have clearly titled this 'Roadmaps.'
I agree on the planning element, I'm waiting on GW's second Auxilia wave because a model I want is supposed to be a part of it. I mostly want news not to get excited, but so I can plan out my projects for the year, it's a practical question; is this model getting a kit or should I be looking to make one myself?
"At some point, there will be stuff."
- GW Roadmap
"Next year we're planning on releasing minis and books!"
Cool, so you're not going out of business. Got any specifics?
The equivalent in an actual road map would be, "Get in your car. Eventually, you will probably arrive at your destination".
Things too!
Half the "roadmaps" were talking about stuff they'd already done this year!
💬In the words of Mike Stoklasa (RLM): "What a giant.... *_Giant_* ....Pile of *_SHlT. "_* ⛰💩
This was the reveal equivalent of "This meeting could have been an email"
You are exactly right👍🏽
Even more so since the texts in the articles where more informative than the images XD
*should 😂
Road Map > We are going to make models.
Wow, I feel so informed.
Another shocker...water is wet.
I Don't know why I find this so funny
Half of it was “we’re going to make models”
The other half was “WE HAVE ALREADY MADE MODELS”
@@MisterMcCrumch More like 2/3 was "WE HAVE ALREADY MADE MODELS". It takes up half the roadmap, but has significantly more text than the other one.
💬In the words of Mike Stoklasa (🔴RLM): "What a giant.... *_Giant_* ....Pile of *_SHlT. "_* ⛰💩
"Are you all set for our road trip?"
"Yep."
"You got the map to find our way?"
"Yep." *holds up a globe*
Holds up a piece of paper with a very badly drawn crayon map of the world
@@Nidhoggrr holds up map of Middle earth drawn in crayon, by someone who has never seen or read LoTR but only had it described to them in the form of interpretive dance.
The drip feed of codexes does not benefit the games quality of life in any way, and the idea that we aren’t getting any new codexes this year when more than half the codexes still aren’t out yet is frankly pathetic
There's only been 1 Chaos codex release this edition so far and they're taking a 4 month break???? Wtf?
@@devonwilson8306 Even Worse Tsons will be an antagonist in Space Marine 2, the game that will bring many new faces to the hobby and they haven't even announced their codex? Does GW understand building on publicity and hype? Does their marketing team and codex team both only drink from lead cups?
Drukhari have half their range missing, unable to buy....and theyre going to be one of last to get updated?
Tbh this is a big part of why I just can't get myself interested in even trying the game itself, despite really loving the lore around Orks and some of the major characters. If I can't know what to expect from a game, especially one as expensive to get into as WH40k, I'm just gonna... not.
@@Xanthelei If you want to try it cheap you could play one page rules (free online).
The Kill Team section was pretty hilarious to me. All they said was "We will keep making boxes and Kill Teams"
Cool, thanks GW.
Dooiooid de happy ya no go the way of warcry.
Drip feeding and hinting is the worst business and release plan ever. And I don’t know why GW swears by both so much. The space marine video game has a more interesting road map than the thing it is based on.
😂 You are not wrong! I really hope they land the launch of the game, its looking incredible in my opinion
I remember back in the day white dwarf showed off everything that was happening next month.
Ha ha I remember back in the day when GW basically told you nothing other than go fuck yourself, lol, these "Road Maps" would have seemed amazing back then.
For their business drip feeding works. Its unfortunate. Same reason the imperium and Space marines get so much crap.
While I firmly believe that they should just make all the rules available for free, GW does not.
By drip feeding these stupid books they have a predictable source of income each fiscal quarter.
Exactly. They sell plastic toys and act like they sell designer diamond jewelry or something. Keeping releases secret like anyone outside the hobby cares 😄
I have to suspect internal issues at GW. Frankly the release schedule has been insane for years.
I agree. 9th for 40k basically got new stuff every 2-3 weeks. Now they can barely keep up stock.
Theyre getting lazy cause they have insane profits. Big corpos will have a new head of economy, every year. And every year their task will be cutting costs by a specific %(usually its around 2-4%) and thats what you see now. The results of this policy after decades of it
If we're being honest, they're probably spreading their game teams far too thin to the point of just total irrelevancy. We already know the teams compete with each other, and I know there's a popular rumour that 40k doesn't even get its own dedicated 'team' but pulls from all the other teams as one big project. You account for the fact that they now have FIVE massive mainline game teams (40k, AOS, HH, OW, LOTR) and it's no wonder they can barely keep pace - they released 40k 10th, AOS 4th, HH 2nd, OW 1st and then killed Forgeworld which was the backbone of LOTR. All that in 2 years. Unless they massively expanded their design team in two years (which I doubt) there's no way they could feasibly handle that kind of weight, especially when you factor in all their small-scale games which all seem to be doing great comparatively.
I imagine they're just going to take the next few months to restructure their internal logistics and expand their teams, using the Christmas period to focus on manufacturing and using battleforce boxes to buy back some PR. Because if not... well, at least AOS is doing fine.
@@Delta44115 theyre not spreading themselves too faar, too thin. theyre lazy. they could roll out a new army for every faction AND have lore for them, for EVERY MAINLINE. if they wanted to. within a year.
its not a small business that struggles to get by. it doesnt cost em $4 million a year to hire one writer. they got the capital.
They'd rather release stuff weekly at the cost of quality, than focus on fortnightly or even monthly releases that have been refined... its getting ridiculous. Especially with the Imperial Agents book recently... because by god was that the worst book gw has ever made.
Tbh I’m completely convinced that this was just an investor presentation that got shown.
EDIT: I didn’t connect these dots before but a lot of stuff have been out of stock for months on the webstore. And now that GW confirmed that the only new release will be the new killteam boxset and a blood-angels box that’s just 2 characters, an upgrade sprew and some old stuff. I think it’s safe to assume that there’s some massive production issues going on behind the scene.
(And that’s not even mentioning the as of yet unconfirmed rumors that an entire codex got pushed back to be rewritten)
More specifically all the executives/investors who barely even know what GW does as a company and just want to know if there are plans to make them more money, regardless of what those exact plans are.
Does anyone feel more and more reveal shows lack the real feeling of excitement or authenticity? It feels more like a shallow and fake corporate thing, with no passion.
at the bare minimum, for a miniature company they sure don't like showing their miniatures in these reveals.
Honestly they are id rather a few big announcements a year announcing everything each game system has in the pipeline dates etc when boxsets will release when older models will be removed when newer kits will release the way they do it is so uninformative & an outright a mess the communication is just awful from gw
So standard GW?
It's not just the reveal shows. It's everything they do. The batreps on Warhammer- are exactly the same way. Too corporate, too fake.
Those roadmaps read like they were more for an internal audience. Plus the 'upcoming' stuff that wasn't 2025 was stuff they'd released. Tbh it seems like they forgot about the Nova Open and just pulled out old PowerPoint notes that were used in meetings
The way the old one is phrased makes me think this is 100% true. “Launched to a dedicated fan base” that’s not a selling point to the customer, that’s a selling point to management to say, “yes, we know it’s not selling as well as the others, because it’s targeted towards a more niche audience.” That’s not something you tell your customer, that’s what you tell your boss
It's what you tell investors. It's an investment call, and they don't care about product specifics.
Writing BAD in caps on the thumbnail is the equivalent of crack for the algorithm lol. Totally agree btw. Strong feeling that some bright spark in Leadership decided GW needed a Roadmap graphic, without anyone thinking about what the actual content would be
I think the answer is relatively simple: Upper management at GW told the marketing/Warhammer+/social media people "Nova is coming up and we always do a reveal stream so we have to do one this year too, but you're only allowed to talk about X, Y and Z" and then the marketing/Warhammer+ social media people had to figure out how to make something out of basically nothing.
Think of it like Rings of Power, where Amazon had to make a story without being able to use any of the content from the period they wanted to set the story in so they just had to try and cobble together whatever they could.
I saw a comment on another video saying they think this was the video for GenCon, but it got cancelled so they just reused it.
Thats still a massive blunder from marketing then. If you have a sad and disappointingly small announcement dot the love of god dont hype it up so much
This feels like it. "Make the fans a chocolate cake but you can't use eggs sugar milk or chocolate. "
So flour. We got a bag of hot flour.
@andrewanderson1988 that makes sense, but only makes the disappointment more intense.
At this point I want 3D printing to go crazy just to force GW to up their game.
Poor analogy there. RoP still had quite a bit of lore to call on but they completely ignored all of it and churned out an utter turd of a product.
You nailed it. Why Horus Heresy was even included is a mystery. Nothing was given us.
"Hey guys HH will get tanks!" Yeah we know thanks, for a while your HH thursdays was a tank every damn week.
This was probably the worst way I could've found out that GW was giving me plastic death korps which I've wanted since I started them in 8th.
"Army Boxes - Heroes - Plastic - Metal - Resin" is so fucking funny, it's like if there was a Magic the Gathering preview that promised "Booster Packs - Precon Decks - Cardboard" like yeah no shit.
Though WotC give GW a run for their money in incompetence these days so I wouldn't be that surprised to see it.
This is GW's new tactic they've been implementing for a while. The deliberate lack of information happens on all their social media. Also happened to Warhammer+
Thats because GW is a sinking company that sees customers as a nuisance they have to deal with. They are not excited about their own products, they only care that it sells. They have no incentive to communicate transparantly but have every incentive to keep people on the hook/hypetrain even if based on completely false assumptions.
The goal is to keep customers in a constant state of anticipation but not being held accountable if they dont deliver.
Dang, you think GW is sinking? I mean in quality, maybe, but dang, the whole thing? It seems like they are doing ok fiscally, but I've definitely seen some loss of character.
What does it mean that "with a lot happening in 2024 we're going to take a break?" I mean is there a lot happening or are they taking a break. It can't be both.
GW's production capabilities are so bad at this point that they just cannot deliver anything else for the remainder of the year, and it's still just August. 10th edition is already in a not great place, and this is NOT going to help.
EDIT: I guess we now know whey the canceled that previous preview show at the US Open. They knew even then that Blood Angels was it for the remainder of 2024 and that nothing else was coming until 2025.
Bro, we got 4 months of the year left. To say there is nothing else to reveal in 2024 is vexing. You still got the imperial guard, aeldari, druhkari, both imperial and chaos knights, space wolves, votann, the 3 existing chaos specifically aligned marines along with Emperor's Children to be introduced... You don't have time to dilly-dally with everything you got left to do in this edition! And that's JUST 40K!
In pure numbers: It's 12 factions still missing their codex, 13 if you count Emperor's Children. At their current pace, how are they supposed to cram all that stuff in 2025? My biggest hope is, that they break their shitty 3 year cycle and give the edition some time to settle before they announce 11th, otherwise some factions might even have less time to play with their codex than World Eaters had in 9th.
@ElGrompho666 not going to mention ig in 9th ?
@@y2j1490yahoo Yes, Guard had it bad, too. I think World Eaters was even more outrageous though because it was a new army, nobody had enough models to field a whole army (even with old Berserkers) of them and there were massive supply issues at the time, so most people also couldn't get their hands on the models, unless they were willing to pay silly scalping prices. So, even if you were lucky enough to get your hands on the models and were an incredibly fast painter, you had maybe two months tops to actually play the army.
At least with Imperial Guard, a lot of people already had standing, playable armies and could dive right in.
i find it bordering on insulting to fill like half a screen with stuff they released only bc it'd be too empty without. i'm 90% certain thats the reason they did it. it's okay if they can't say whats going to come. i mean, who knows whats going on there. it's another sign that SOMETHING is wrong at gw. like the whole pretty terrible state 10th launched in, the lackluster anniversary show, terrible codexes and now this. i get why they dont want to explain exactly WHAT it is, but dont take us for fools pls.
They could have literally foreshadowed future releases with some dark silhouettes of upcoming models. They could have combined monthly teasers into a suggestive jigsaw, giving people more information without outright revealing what is coming.
It feels like something disastrous has happened behind the scenes and they've had to cancel months worth of stuff
my thoughts exactly. and tbh, the problems are apparent since start of 10th at the very least. they had a backlog of things to release, and now they've run out and there is nothing left. at least it appears like it. that could also be the reason the last reveals were so dissapointing, too. they just had to stretch out what little was ready at the time
They mention in the Old World article that High Elves are/were delayed, and they also said the Galrauch mini was delayed but is returning, so it's obvious that all the various issues they've been suffering over the last few years has reached critical mass.
Something must have gone very, very wrong recently because the fact that 40K, their flagship game, will only have Blood Angels in four months is telling.
My favorite was Warcry’s “roadmap section” where they said “oh hey, we launched this thing we talked about months back finally that people wanted!” And then just moved on. That game is dead within the year, calling it now lol.
the roadmaps reminded me of Bernard Black in black books doing his taxes.
Hats off for that goated reference
Vague Workshop Preview
All this tells me is that either these "roadmaps" were made last minute, or that not much is actually scheduled for release. Its just so vague it tells me the people who made it don't know when things will be coming out
GW is needs to get their shit together and stop fucking around with its customers, they have alot of problem that needs addressing and none of them are being fixed or looked into. Such as pricing, production, P.R, transparency, and alienation of former strong fan base including extra media products like their video games and t.v show deals.
This smacks of someone saying “Hey, you gotta announce something BUT you’re not allowed to know what’s coming up.” Maybe they’re scared of leaks, maybe development is going haywire across the board, or it’s just general incompetence.
The immediate aftermath for me was “wow, I’m excited for my Stormcast but that was a nothing burger”.
GW:
1) You consume product.
2) We release to be determined new product.
3) You consume product.
4) Profit!
I think this is an indication of their production woes. It's a billion-pound company being run out of a one-bedroom apartment. They have needed to expand for a decade, they're congested in the factory with things stacked on top of each other. "What's coming next? dunno, really. Depends on what we have room for next week!"
What's really baffling about all this is that the previous roadmaps they put out for 40k 10th edition and Horus Heresy were really really good and informative, positive changes to how they did things. Over the last few months though they've now actually gone *backwards* as a company in terms of how they communicate and roll things out, in so many ways.
These roadmaps feel like they were ripped out of a shareholders PowerPoint presentation. And those were made with the idea: 'keep it short and simple, shareholders don't care or know anything about the company, but we have to do a bit of what we will be doing. '
Eh. Aside from the two Horus Heresy games, the road maps were about what I expected. Hell, I honestly am shocked they said Krieg and Aspect Warriors were coming so far in advance. Very un-GW. But yeah, the Horus Heresy road map is pretty bad. It doesn't bother me, a Legions Imperialis player. Every six months a new campaign book and some models will release, and I will buy at least some.
11:51 shareholders.
This screams of corporate skullduggery. Something along the lines of the production director trying to justify poor sculpt quality and production delays with a snazzy 10 minute power point, and then being told to collaborate with the marketing team to format a roadmap presentation. My guess is that most of this stuff is still stuck in the concept phase, with the overall development and production wings of the company suffering burnout from what seems like a nonstop mini and rules mill, though this is all speculation.
The problem was that the marketing for the "show" said: "We're gonna do a new kind of entirely roadmap-specific show!"
And then they proceded to show the worst and least detailed roadmaps they've ever done. No, in fact that didn't show them at all, you had to go to their website for most of the actual info.
They’re starting the tank spam AGAIN?!
At least there might now be Solar Auxilia and Mechanicum tanks in there.
No no, they're gonna do "something new every month", and then TANKS!
Please, sir...just a crumb of breachers...
They did confirm kreig and aeldar. So that’s something. But it was 30 mins of chatting, for 2 sentences of actual news
What sucks is that we had a good road map for heresy last year that made actual sense. These are just “nothing else new this year, new stuff next year”
Did they fire the previous Horus Heresy roadmap designer? Last year HH had a very informative roadmap with seasons where winter was like "new legion characters, a new faction" and spring was "New Command squad, New tanks". You knew somewhat what was coming for like 6-9 months ahead and in which order as well.
Why is GW returning to the old Keeper of Secrets way of thinking?
because its cheaper to do a shit job in the short term and pretend theres no long term consequences, then just putting in the effort to do a good job
To be fair I don't think the NOVA Open was really very good tbh. Stormcast got some new stuff. That's about it? All they did was talk about what they'd released over the last couple of years, and promise there'd be more Eldar stuff.
It was structured like a shareholder meeting for public relations, we did all this stuff to make money last year, we will make more of this stuff to make money next year. It may in fact be the same presentation with the accounting information removed.
My god, there is no mention of books on the roadmap! They have stopped releasing books! Maybe we are getting plastic, metal or resin books?
Us: are we going to be seeing lots of new models and detailed information about what’s coming up?
GW: even better! Some vague JPEGs and reminiscing about what we released!
Us: half of the road map is dedicated to what we’ve already had?
GW: that’s part of the road map! It’s just the part we’ve gone past
My best guess as to why they specified the materials the old world models would be made of:
The same reason so much of their old world stock has sold out: they weren’t prepared for how popular the game is (despite the fact that they’ve had Total War games providing advertising for years).
I get the impression that they threw that card together quickly. They simply needed to fill empty space with some non-specific info
It played out like the design team was doing a presentation for management like it was their annual performance review.
This is literally the bare minimum. This is stuff I assume GW would do, printing models… as opposed to what? Going out of business?
My honest opinion.
All the delays
Agents leak: gw allowed printer finish up what they had and killed all the future contracts.
The delay in releases is now due to lead time of getting a new printer up and running.
BA and a few others were already with the printer.
Even better for Warcry players, we don't even know if game will be discontinued or not
They wanted to do the new road map thing without committing to the road map part
It give me the vibes of a old guy looking at what the younger gen are doing without really understanding why or possibly willing to commit to it
What would be nice for Imperialis, is units being available for sale, since a lot of core units from launch haven't been available for 9 months so far, unless you want to double up on a lot of redundant units with the battle force they released.
Road maps in the sense that Canada is in the northern hemisphere kinda way
@4:44 The Heresy reveal reassured me that some of the 'expert kit' (forge world) resin tanks that are now 'no longer available on line' will be returning in plastic next year. Maybe they've made the sensible decision to slow the pace of releases so they can actually keep their websites stocked.
With you going over it Kirioth, I just realised that these are likely slides for shareholder meetings, that they just used for people who are actually interested instead. Who else would need to know what they've done, and what materials they use. There's clearly a whole script that explains it, but that's not for the Nova preview to know, only shareholders.
So we done for the year with 40k and HH?
And Old World, after this weekend's Chaos Warriors release.
Who tf needed GW to tell them that new codexes are coming out in 2025 and that there will be more tanks and chaos... who the hell reacted to that information like, "woah no way"
The Horus Heresy roadmap reads more like "Tanks for the money, now we are starting to wrap up this game" to me. At least the Warhammer the old world specified a couple of factions like 40k and AoS did. With the exception of the little bit of Blood Bowl and LotR we didn't hear really anything about some of the smaller games roadmap wise so they could be on the chopping block already.
What surprised me the most is that the roadmaps didn't actually match what was discussed in the preview show. The show didn't mention a knights codex for 40k but it appears on the roadmap. Similarly the Heresy show was somewhat interesting as they said how their big focus would be on converting core legion units to plastic, which is something a lot of the community were really hoping for. They also mentioned that much further down the track they will look at doing legion specific plastic kits which was also really surprising to hear. But those statements I guess were about things too far in the future to be roadmap article worthy.
I wonder if they have overextended themselves somewhat. They've got quite a few major game systems now that require more than a few models to play: 40K, AoS, Old World, Horus Heresy, LotR
With Old World it has been especially noticable that they are not keeping up with demand.
Best announcement they could have made in this regard is “We plan to employ someone who knows what a roadmap is”.
And I’m STILL waiting on the Bloody Melee weapon Upgrade Kit.
GW doing a GW… Again
My actual headcanon is that they were supposed to reveal the new Blood Angels, but everyone said “yea, I’m not going in front of that angry mob”
I am convinced the "Chaos Treats" they hint at is them folding Chaos Daemons into their respective chaos armies
I think marketing was all geared up for a big post-skaven update, then the production team told them "We're making old combat partols for the magazine subscriptions over the next 6 months... You're not getting anything"
They definitely should have just made this a warcom article
There is also a basic problem with their "road maps". If I want to get from point A to point F, on most things that produce maps, a line is drawn leading from A to F. A to B, B to C, C to D, etc. These do not do that. One line starts at A("So Far") and proceeds to the bottom, takes a sharp turn at C("And Beyond") and crashes right into F, which is at the bottom of a second line coming the other way from the top of the page(D). So they actually read A to B to C to F to E to D. No wonder no one can understand this company.
Thinking about it, the roadmaps feel more like a presentation at a GW board room meeting - "here's what we've done, here's what we're thinking about doing next" all incredibly vague to avoid locking themselves into any kind of real timeframe they could be held to.
A roadmap usually implies a vague or clear timeline breaking down releases and what those releases will contain. This was literally just a "Stuff is coming this year and next year. That is all."
I agree with the future info was grossly lacking.
But for the showing what has happened this year, as a person who is new and trying to learn, it's actually helpful, you have to make new players who just got into it feel welcomed too.
The codex roadmap for each edition just feels so so simple. Codexes come out in pairs every 2 months, staggered if theyre desperate for maximum engagement, with a box/starter set of both armies combat patrol style in one box with a short but meaningful setting that can be used to start narrative campaign or for new players to have fun on the table with their starter sets. Sets are organised into:
SM faction vs Choas faction
Non SM imperial faction vs Xenos faction
SM faction vs Xenos Faction
Non SM imperial faction vs Chaos faction
SM faction vs Choas faction
Non SM imperial faction vs Xenos faction
SM faction vs Xenos Faction
Non SM imperial faction vs Chaos faction
SM faction vs Chaos faction
Non SM imperial faction vs xenos faction
And then pair off the rest. Sell the codexes separately, make the starter set literally 2 new versions of combat patrol, have combat patrol rules in there and boom you literally serve everyone in half the time.
As someone often involved in projects… when then “what have we done so far” comes out, you know the project is in trouble and stuck
Good job laying out the issue with what was presented without unnecessary heat. If GW looks at any of the feedback I hope it is this video.
when I was going into the releases I was expecting specific dates to be announced, instead I get "sometime before end of the year" and "next year we plan to release more models"
yeah no shit GW, but WHEN.
i don't like how little it tells us, but I do like that they're changing things less. I don't want to buy an army just for it to be obsolete (or at least needing changes) the next month.
Im so happy I made the switch to One Page at the start of the year and completely ducked 10th entirely. Been so happy printing unique flavors of armies to tool around with.
The “we will continue running our business” announcement is causing a lot of equations that are answered by the “we will continue running our business” announcements
How to destroy hype with no dates, even months would have been good
Would have literally been better to have NO road map, As is, all they have done is reveal that we have nothing to be excited for, For like 4 months!
I can understand the "no dates" thing, what with the whole manufacturing problems they've been having. What I don't understand is not laying a few teasers for upcoming, hotly demanded, things. Even if you ball park an extremely loose range, people would go wild if they knew 100% that - for example - an Emperor's Children line was in development for 40k, or if a Kislev line was being developed for TOW.
It felt like an internal stakeholder meeting in all honesty, talking about the success of the year just gone
I expect NOTHING from Garbage Wreckshop...
Except for...
AGE OF THE STARCHILD ANNOUNCEMENT!
I hope the other factions waiting to strike are the Tau in roughly woven tunics with slings and spears.
Another thing talked about in the preview was a narrative campaign for aos. But nothing on the road map about it
"Announcing stage one IS stage one, now it's time for stage two."
roughly half of the entire 'roadmap' was them saying: 'here's some stuff we did recently'.
GW is terrible at marketing, marketing is finding out what the market wants, EI the customer. GW is good at advertising, which is showing off what its selling.
The preview for roadmaps was unneccesary!! Like they ended up doing, putting them up on WH community is all they needed to do. And quite honestly all blood angels reveals over the past month or so could have just been saved for this preview show instead like they should have done. Hell the WH+ minis could have been added to this to make the preview that much more enjoyable as sad as that sounds haha. The ONLy thing that has me excited about these roadmaps is the AoS one with Slaves to Darkness coming up soon to finish off the year for AoS 4th ed.
GW head office "Lets have a Warhammer preview where nothing is previewed"
Events organizer "Sounds great"
This is not a roadmap, it's a mission statement. This is aimed at investors, not hobbyists.
Age of Sigmar roadmap implies that "all factions" will get something in 2025. If all factions actually get their rules in 12-18 months of a new edition being released, that would be an amazing improvement for GW.
Arent there only 9 non-legends factions in old world?
So if 5 have released, and we're getting empire and high elves next year + "more factions" (which is plural) then that means we'll get 4 next year, so that's just the rest of the factions.
The word I think he's looking for is "regurgitated"
I looked at the "roadmap" and it's worse that that Kirioth...... If you count by sentences on each bracket more than 3/4 of the "roadmap" is either nothing or stuff that was done either earlier this year or last year.
In essence GW, like a stray cat has dropped a large dead thing at our door earlier this year, acts like it's an achievement and gave us the "there's more where that came from" emote.
The hype up of road maps to get what we got last night and it not be more fleshed out is where I think the dissatisfaction comes from like why would i watch another live event and not just wait until the morning.
They struck me more as the sort of slides you would put in a new investors brochure rather than something useful for customers
Feed back from customers: 'Roadmaps please.' GW discuss in private 'Not going to happen, would ruin FOMO.' GW in public, 'These are your roadmaps - we have clearly titled this 'Roadmaps.'
Although Games Workshop is a British company the American tournament scene over-rules everything.
I agree on the planning element, I'm waiting on GW's second Auxilia wave because a model I want is supposed to be a part of it. I mostly want news not to get excited, but so I can plan out my projects for the year, it's a practical question; is this model getting a kit or should I be looking to make one myself?
Wait! There's new Blood Angels coming out?
This was a road map for keyholder/investment which for whatever reasons they gave to us because they didn’t have any else.
I loved the fact the road maps just mainly said what they had already released, but gave little info on what was coming. It was a massive anti climax😂
100% this was a internal business/meeting roadmap to be used in meeting that they've decided to use as public facing