mother was a narcissist, i became estranged as i was frightened of her and her abuse, and now i am cut out of the will. my brothers will get all, although i was the only daughter who was her slave when younger, and deserve compensation...lol
Alienation and estrangement are so different. I was accused of alienating myself from a dysfunctional family. That word was used. I bit my lip because it was actually a practice of distancing myself to avoid anymore hurt and toxic abuse. The wolves will hound you. Please stay strong and keep educating yourself. It’s been a lifesaver and this channel hits the nail on the head. Choose you ❤
When I met my wife 6 years ago, now 28, she took pride in her family's bond. My sisters and I had individuated (best described as rugged individuation) from our parents, still married, for years by the time I met my wife. I am the youngest child of 3, my wife is the oldest of 3. My sisters & I, although somewhat estranged from one & alienated from the other, maintain a relationship with our parents, but in stark contrast to my wife's family. We speak to our parents a few times a month, my wife & her sisters spoke to their parents (mainly mom) daily. I judged, yet envied her family's cohesiveness; at age 22, w/19 & 17 yr old sisters, the 5 of them went on a 2-week vacation together; 1 week in Disney World and then in succession, 1 week at their summer cottage in New York. I thought it was a little creepy, my family hadn't been to Disney World since before adolescence, but I also found it charmingly close knit. It didn't take long to recognize her mom was the indisputable family leader. All 3 girls were disciplined as youths and stayed out of trouble, compared to my siblings and I, who frequently talked back to our parents inappropriately, and had a knack for trouble, partying, experimenting with drugs, etc. As a result, even though I had other visceral senses telling me something wasn’t right, I felt a certain respect for my mother-in-law’s parenting style. She held rigid opinions, and beliefs, and exerted controlling tactics equally among her 3 children. In good faith, I chalked it up as growing pains a parent experiences as their first born becomes an adult. I had witnessed subtler, but comparable, behaviors in my own mom when my older sisters transitioned into independent adults, no longer relying as heavily on my parents for material and emotional guidance & support. As time went on, our relationship blossomed, I asked & received her parents blessing for us to wed... but quite rapidly, as the pandemic hit, I was bludgeoned with insight about my mother-in-law-to-be that contradicted the benefit of the doubt I had given her regarding her behaviors. In short order, I became the #1 target for blame regarding developing issues within the family, with my wife following on the most wanted list as #2. After her mom attempted to destroy our relationship by using evidence we found out 2 years later, by her own sloppy admission she had fabricated, we found out that my wife's mother, as much as a layperson can diagnose, suffers from covert NPD. Refusing to obey her mom’s personal attempt to ruin our relationship, and the tidal wave of attempts to do the same by what I came to learn are ‘flying monkeys’ (dad being the most loyal), my wife’s mother alienated her from her very tight knit (enmeshed, as I later learned) family, and used half-truths, along with downright fallacies, to alienate her from her extended family also. This broke my wife’s spirit, compromised her self-confidence, weakened her physical health, pushed her into an identity crisis, and made her question her most sacredly held beliefs. That was almost 4 years ago, and it took us 3 years to learn about covert NPD, along with the 9 categorical traits outlined in the DSM, and enmeshment. My wife very reluctantly estranged herself by making the horrific choice to go no-contact by blocking her own mom, to escape from her manipulative but meticulously surreptitious hoovering. I have never witnessed such bravery… put in her position, considering her upbringing, I very well may have folded like a cheap suit. She even had the reluctant courage to block her dad who, short of his flying monkey expertise, is one of the sweetest, most caring men I have ever met. Yet, due to his wife’s authoritarian influence, he blinds himself from enabling such evil, absolutely crushing his own daughter’s beautiful soul. As you can imagine this enraged me, and I later found out my attempts to angrily intervene were only used against me as a classic narcissistic tactic. A couple months ago, my wife started counseling with a therapist, who is supposedly qualified in narcissistic abuse. I am skeptical of the therapist’s qualifications with NPD abuse, but we had trouble finding a counseling firm in our state that claimed to serve clients suffering from such a condition. It’s a real mess. I am looking for a therapist myself to hash out the unresolved feelings of distress I am left with. Jim, or anyone who has educated themselves on the fallout that these cluster B personality disorder dynamics create, do you have any suggestions for expert contacts available to provide private sessions? I see all kinds of great educators on UA-cam, and by no means is this intended to knock them, but most of them are also peddling some one-size-fits-all program. Unfortunately, that is not what I am looking for. I’m not a commenter, and I did not write this with the intention to find professional help. Although writing out what I regret to admit is only a brief synopsis, I hope this comment provides at least one person with the kind of comfort we have felt from reading so many others’, keeping us from feeling alone in the despair this situation has immutably left us with the experience of.
Thank you for telling your story. I have much respect for the obvious personal integrity you both have demonstrated in pulling together as a couple, when your own relationship could so easily have gone sideways if either of you had let yourselves get sucked into the vortex. Well done.
Congratulations and you are so lucky your wife has gone no contact! I am facing an enabler husband who still thinks his mom is perfect, even if she's a wacko who abused him sexually and a demon who pulls the strings of an entire family.
What estrangement looks like in my family is my two youngest adult children and myself refusing to speak to or be in close physical proximity to my husband, despite one of them and myself living in the same home. He has been abusive for decades, there is probably some personality disorder involved. Over a year ago he was ready to get a gun and hold it on my unarmed son, who has never hurt anyone, in a family argument. But, we grabbed and restrained him. Instead of coming to his senses, my husband called the police to arrest the son for assault (putting him in a headlock). My husband EVENTUALLY realized he messed up, but continues to expect that we should do the right thing and forgive him. He defines forgive as going back to a regular relationship. I have explained over and over the shattered trust, and outlined that this was the culmination of a pattern of abuse, not a one-time lapse, but he doesn't get it. I am asking for a separation or divorce, writing long letters about why I don't feel safe, and he keeps trying to get me to talk to a church leader about MY problem with forgiveness. He can't find solutions for himself, so he keeps hoping he can get (guilt) someone else to accommodate his dysregulation.
I’m so sorry you are suffering with your husband. I hope you have the courage and help to leave him. Therapy has helped me greatly if it’s the right match with a therapist that is providing you and your children a safe way to end this. My best to you! I’ve lived through a lot of abuse in my life and the best solution is to leave these people…they don’t change! You will get older and will ruminate about why didn’t I go sooner. Go now!❤
@@tammydietschweiler7852Thank you for your kind, supportive words, and perspective from the other side. He has agreed to move out, thankfully, but the details remain in flux. We are in our 60's, and share 10 grown children, currently 11 grandchildren, a farm, and some apartment buildings, so extraction is complicated, and channels such as this one and encouraging comments such as yours have been a lifeline of information and perspective for someone from my generation where all this was not common knowledge. Jerks were just jerks back then, and boundaries were just what did or didn't keep your cows in on a given day. I am thankful for those who have dedicated their lives to improving the collective knowledge. Blessings on you in your walk.
Thank you so much for this video. It helped me so much. My ex spouse caused incredible pain, trauma and betrayal for me and our kids. I have been in court since I chose to divorce him after a secret life of his was revealed. Today we are headed back to court. This time he wants 50/50 custody of one child and is accusing me of alienating him from our kids. He doesn’t seem to understand that my kids don’t trust him anymore and are choosing to limit their interaction with him based on what he did and does, not me. I’m physically, emotionally and financially exhausted and I have nightmares that he will one day retaliate against me. Anyway thanks again.
Timely information and advice. Following an amicable divorce 18 months ago, my ex (covert N) drove a wedge between me and my adult son. He refuses to reply or respond to my calls or messages. We live on opposite sides of the US, so it is not as easy as dropping by to try and see him. I will reply this video a few times so that I can develop a best way to approach him.
I am estranged from my family. Very low contact. It juat happened. They dont call. I dont call. I do relate to expressionistic individuation. My sistet and i were moved across the country to live with my grandparents while my brother stayed with my parents and finished renovations to sell the house. I dont recall any reconciliation or repair after they moved to me. It was just business as usual. It definitely damaged the damily.
Currently see ex alienate themself from the kids. Yells, swears, insults, doesn't hold word, forgets pickup time, ... Have tried to explain to the kids so often, that they're angry with me, not them. But then it's about repeated unfair attacks, possible explanations become unrealistic. I don't want to invalidate their feelings, on her other hand I feel obliged to have them have some relationship. Meanwhile it's my fault, of course. I'd manipulate the kids, I'd badmouth, ... never did, never tried. Tough, but yes, estrangement might be the most healthy constellation.
But… parental alienation syndrome ( PAS) CAN NOT EXIST if there is any history of abuse & neglect between the person choosing to isolate from their abuser.
Jim Brillon is probably an excellent therapist and I am thankful he is posting. I do agree that the soundtrack behind his voice, however is distracting and mechanical, and the little electronic bell sound that seems to be intended to punctuate points is to me, too, annoying and takes away from his message. Aside from that, kol ha-kavod and may those people who tune in to his message benefit, and may he and other Real therapists be protected from the toxicities their profession exposes them to.
How I relate to this topic. Older golden child sister alienated me bcz I dated & married a man of a different culture she didn’t understand. She outcast us, not invited, not included. Family went along with her “fear” & labeling husband. I then estranged from them, walked away, started our own new family. 30 yrs later wonderful marriage & life … they claim I am the problem & say how could I do this. 🤣 A Dysfunctional /narc/toxic family member rallies others to join their cult. As he describes in this video. It’s unreal & unbelievable if you have not experienced a lifetime of it.
@devinsmallwick4208 , Thank you for sharing your personal story . Your insights into these painful topics is valuable. I feel hopeful after seeing your comment .
My mother turned my brother against my dad and me. She tried to turn my dad & I against each other...didn't really worked. I went low contact with my mother for a number of years, but got suck back in after my dad passed. I foolishly let her back into my life. Worse mistakes ever.
mother was a narcissist, i became estranged as i was frightened of her and her abuse, and now i am cut out of the will. my brothers will get all, although i was the only daughter who was her slave when younger, and deserve compensation...lol
Alienation and estrangement are so different.
I was accused of alienating myself from a dysfunctional family. That word was used. I bit my lip because it was actually a practice of distancing myself to avoid anymore hurt and toxic abuse. The wolves will hound you. Please stay strong and keep educating yourself. It’s been a lifesaver and this channel hits the nail on the head. Choose you ❤
@Sam-mn4ed , thanks for your wise comments.
When I met my wife 6 years ago, now 28, she took pride in her family's bond. My sisters and I had individuated (best described as rugged individuation) from our parents, still married, for years by the time I met my wife. I am the youngest child of 3, my wife is the oldest of 3. My sisters & I, although somewhat estranged from one & alienated from the other, maintain a relationship with our parents, but in stark contrast to my wife's family. We speak to our parents a few times a month, my wife & her sisters spoke to their parents (mainly mom) daily. I judged, yet envied her family's cohesiveness; at age 22, w/19 & 17 yr old sisters, the 5 of them went on a 2-week vacation together; 1 week in Disney World and then in succession, 1 week at their summer cottage in New York.
I thought it was a little creepy, my family hadn't been to Disney World since before adolescence, but I also found it charmingly close knit. It didn't take long to recognize her mom was the indisputable family leader. All 3 girls were disciplined as youths and stayed out of trouble, compared to my siblings and I, who frequently talked back to our parents inappropriately, and had a knack for trouble, partying, experimenting with drugs, etc. As a result, even though I had other visceral senses telling me something wasn’t right, I felt a certain respect for my mother-in-law’s parenting style. She held rigid opinions, and beliefs, and exerted controlling tactics equally among her 3 children. In good faith, I chalked it up as growing pains a parent experiences as their first born becomes an adult.
I had witnessed subtler, but comparable, behaviors in my own mom when my older sisters transitioned into independent adults, no longer relying as heavily on my parents for material and emotional guidance & support.
As time went on, our relationship blossomed, I asked & received her parents blessing for us to wed... but quite rapidly, as the pandemic hit, I was bludgeoned with insight about my mother-in-law-to-be that contradicted the benefit of the doubt I had given her regarding her behaviors. In short order, I became the #1 target for blame regarding developing issues within the family, with my wife following on the most wanted list as #2. After her mom attempted to destroy our relationship by using evidence we found out 2 years later, by her own sloppy admission she had fabricated, we found out that my wife's mother, as much as a layperson can diagnose, suffers from covert NPD.
Refusing to obey her mom’s personal attempt to ruin our relationship, and the tidal wave of attempts to do the same by what I came to learn are ‘flying monkeys’ (dad being the most loyal), my wife’s mother alienated her from her very tight knit (enmeshed, as I later learned) family, and used half-truths, along with downright fallacies, to alienate her from her extended family also. This broke my wife’s spirit, compromised her self-confidence, weakened her physical health, pushed her into an identity crisis, and made her question her most sacredly held beliefs.
That was almost 4 years ago, and it took us 3 years to learn about covert NPD, along with the 9 categorical traits outlined in the DSM, and enmeshment. My wife very reluctantly estranged herself by making the horrific choice to go no-contact by blocking her own mom, to escape from her manipulative but meticulously surreptitious hoovering.
I have never witnessed such bravery… put in her position, considering her upbringing, I very well may have folded like a cheap suit. She even had the reluctant courage to block her dad who, short of his flying monkey expertise, is one of the sweetest, most caring men I have ever met. Yet, due to his wife’s authoritarian influence, he blinds himself from enabling such evil, absolutely crushing his own daughter’s beautiful soul.
As you can imagine this enraged me, and I later found out my attempts to angrily intervene were only used against me as a classic narcissistic tactic. A couple months ago, my wife started counseling with a therapist, who is supposedly qualified in narcissistic abuse. I am skeptical of the therapist’s qualifications with NPD abuse, but we had trouble finding a counseling firm in our state that claimed to serve clients suffering from such a condition. It’s a real mess. I am looking for a therapist myself to hash out the unresolved feelings of distress I am left with.
Jim, or anyone who has educated themselves on the fallout that these cluster B personality disorder dynamics create, do you have any suggestions for expert contacts available to provide private sessions? I see all kinds of great educators on UA-cam, and by no means is this intended to knock them, but most of them are also peddling some one-size-fits-all program. Unfortunately, that is not what I am looking for.
I’m not a commenter, and I did not write this with the intention to find professional help. Although writing out what I regret to admit is only a brief synopsis, I hope this comment provides at least one person with the kind of comfort we have felt from reading so many others’, keeping us from feeling alone in the despair this situation has immutably left us with the experience of.
Thank you for telling your story. I have much respect for the obvious personal integrity you both have demonstrated in pulling together as a couple, when your own relationship could so easily have gone sideways if either of you had let yourselves get sucked into the vortex. Well done.
Congratulations and you are so lucky your wife has gone no contact! I am facing an enabler husband who still thinks his mom is perfect, even if she's a wacko who abused him sexually and a demon who pulls the strings of an entire family.
Alienation and Estrangement. The two words that perfectly describe my life 🎉
And here's my favorite....
Mutual-Abandonment
Great video. Thanks
What estrangement looks like in my family is my two youngest adult children and myself refusing to speak to or be in close physical proximity to my husband, despite one of them and myself living in the same home. He has been abusive for decades, there is probably some personality disorder involved. Over a year ago he was ready to get a gun and hold it on my unarmed son, who has never hurt anyone, in a family argument. But, we grabbed and restrained him. Instead of coming to his senses, my husband called the police to arrest the son for assault (putting him in a headlock). My husband EVENTUALLY realized he messed up, but continues to expect that we should do the right thing and forgive him. He defines forgive as going back to a regular relationship. I have explained over and over the shattered trust, and outlined that this was the culmination of a pattern of abuse, not a one-time lapse, but he doesn't get it. I am asking for a separation or divorce, writing long letters about why I don't feel safe, and he keeps trying to get me to talk to a church leader about MY problem with forgiveness. He can't find solutions for himself, so he keeps hoping he can get (guilt) someone else to accommodate his dysregulation.
I’m so sorry you are suffering with your husband. I hope you have the courage and help to leave him. Therapy has helped me greatly if it’s the right match with a therapist that is providing you and your children a safe way to end this. My best to you! I’ve lived through a lot of abuse in my life and the best solution is to leave these people…they don’t change! You will get older and will ruminate about why didn’t I go sooner. Go now!❤
@@tammydietschweiler7852Thank you for your kind, supportive words, and perspective from the other side. He has agreed to move out, thankfully, but the details remain in flux. We are in our 60's, and share 10 grown children, currently 11 grandchildren, a farm, and some apartment buildings, so extraction is complicated, and channels such as this one and encouraging comments such as yours have been a lifeline of information and perspective for someone from my generation where all this was not common knowledge. Jerks were just jerks back then, and boundaries were just what did or didn't keep your cows in on a given day. I am thankful for those who have dedicated their lives to improving the collective knowledge. Blessings on you in your walk.
Thank you so much for this video. It helped me so much. My ex spouse caused incredible pain, trauma and betrayal for me and our kids. I have been in court since I chose to divorce him after a secret life of his was revealed. Today we are headed back to court. This time he wants 50/50 custody of one child and is accusing me of alienating him from our kids. He doesn’t seem to understand that my kids don’t trust him anymore and are choosing to limit their interaction with him based on what he did and does, not me. I’m physically, emotionally and financially exhausted and I have nightmares that he will one day retaliate against me. Anyway thanks again.
Narsisit mother creates factions
Me, my hubby and my sis call my mother "The Wedger". Lol
Timely information and advice. Following an amicable divorce 18 months ago, my ex (covert N) drove a wedge between me and my adult son. He refuses to reply or respond to my calls or messages. We live on opposite sides of the US, so it is not as easy as dropping by to try and see him. I will reply this video a few times so that I can develop a best way to approach him.
Please, recommend his channel to many. I do... ❤❤❤❤❤❤
OK, I will remember his name now on.. BRILLON. Jim Brillon❤
Thank you so much, explains many mysteries!
❤️🙏
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Your voice is so calming, I use your videos as background noise when working
I am estranged from my family. Very low contact. It juat happened. They dont call. I dont call.
I do relate to expressionistic individuation. My sistet and i were moved across the country to live with my grandparents while my brother stayed with my parents and finished renovations to sell the house.
I dont recall any reconciliation or repair after they moved to me. It was just business as usual. It definitely damaged the damily.
Currently see ex alienate themself from the kids. Yells, swears, insults, doesn't hold word, forgets pickup time, ... Have tried to explain to the kids so often, that they're angry with me, not them. But then it's about repeated unfair attacks, possible explanations become unrealistic. I don't want to invalidate their feelings, on her other hand I feel obliged to have them have some relationship.
Meanwhile it's my fault, of course. I'd manipulate the kids, I'd badmouth, ... never did, never tried.
Tough, but yes, estrangement might be the most healthy constellation.
Mr. Brillon , I couldn't get live chat to work. Thanks for video.
Dr Jim Brillon,
Can you do more on alienation?
Would be nice to not have the computer noises clicking noise during talk. Content great but outside computer noise distracting
But… parental alienation syndrome ( PAS) CAN NOT EXIST if there is any history of abuse & neglect between the person choosing to isolate from their abuser.
Interesting subject. I just can’t listen because of the background music. Many probably like it.
@jobethk588 , Thanks. Alot of viewers bailed out.
Jim Brillon is probably an excellent therapist and I am thankful he is posting.
I do agree that the soundtrack behind his voice, however is distracting and
mechanical, and the little electronic bell sound that seems to be intended to punctuate points is to me, too, annoying and takes away from his message.
Aside from that, kol ha-kavod and may those people who tune in to his message benefit, and may he and other
Real therapists be protected from the toxicities their profession exposes them to.
Could someone please share thoughts of this topic ?
How I relate to this topic. Older golden child sister alienated me bcz I dated & married a man of a different culture she didn’t understand. She outcast us, not invited, not included. Family went along with her “fear” & labeling husband.
I then estranged from them, walked away, started our own new family. 30 yrs later wonderful marriage & life … they claim I am the problem & say how could I do this. 🤣
A Dysfunctional /narc/toxic family member rallies others to join their cult. As he describes in this video.
It’s unreal & unbelievable if you have not experienced a lifetime of it.
@devinsmallwick4208 , Thank you for sharing your personal story . Your insights into these painful topics is valuable. I feel hopeful after seeing your comment .
My mother turned my brother against my dad and me. She tried to turn my dad & I against each other...didn't really worked. I went low contact with my mother for a number of years, but got suck back in after my dad passed. I foolishly let her back into my life. Worse mistakes ever.
@mday3821 ,Thank you , my mother also would pit all of us against each other . I am sorry you had to experience this .
@@Greenawareness188 Thank you. I'm sorry you had to go through it as well.🩷