Hey wow, as a black man you almost made me cry to hear someone finally say it. I’m CONSTANTLY afraid that I’m making people uncomfortable, especially white women. I watched a young white girl leap out of an empty elevator in a PACKED Nike store in Chicago because she was scared of going up two floors alone with me. Not to mention her friends caught her like she jumped from danger and they were so glad she was safe again. It honestly just feels good to hear someone say it. I’m scared that you’re scared, I’m trying really hard to look as harmless as I can
To the men who have commented that you hope I get r*ped and murdered and/or that nobody will mourn my death because I avoid eye contact on the street, thanks for proving my point. Women trying to stay safe aren’t ‘paranoid’, we’re experienced. And I know every damn one of you here so mad that I’m afraid of men would be the first to say ‘well she shouldn’t have walked alone’.
I'm really sorry, sir... I really hope everything will be better soon. I apparently am dangerous to myself since I'm a young woman and I'm friendly to all strangers regardless of how they look, usually about strictly "Hey, I like your shirt/hair/eyes/make-up/fandom." type thing, or dogs that walk on the street with their owners. I just love people and I don't want to mistrust people. I'm trying to stay kind and not let my anxiety sweep me away.
My dad is someone who I grew up seeing as weak and passive, got older only to realise how secure he is in his masculinity despite the bs society told him about what it is to be a man. Now I wish I was more like him
@@Alifeofadventures503 Really really DUMB shit, for example the fact he is a nurse? (A damn good one too) I used to resent that he wasn't like...a fucking miner or something idk. His super unaggressive nature and lack of adherence to macho stereotypes, like how he never had any problems being me and my sisters primary caregiver as kids while our mum furthered her career and studies, or allowing her to make important decisions etc. had me thinking to myself "wow, what a doormat of a man I will never be that weak" but then when I got into adulthood, I slowly figured out how unhappy my desire to live up to the standards of toxic masculinity had made me and how much time I had wasted since puberty tryna be what I used to think a real man was instead of just doing what I want without shame like he does, and it took me a while to understand that he never had a problem deferring to women because he never saw it as a threat since he is secure in himself, I feel like I've come a long way but I'm still not there, my masculinity is no longer as fragile as it felt 10 years ago, but I am still struggling with some insecurity surrounding it and I cringe so hard at the way I used to dismiss my dad for not being just a fist with hair lol
@@horsepuncher95 You don't have to be passive and a doormat to be a good man by any standards. Justifying his passiveness with "supporting mom this and that" and all is not even a valid point. What if he DID want something? To become better, or he had more ambitions, but he gave it all for you mom?.. Now the roles are reversed, as women before, gave all for their man, now it is supposed to be an "ideal" to do the opposite? You've been fed with too much feminism for you own good my friend. You can be respectful to women, decent, educated, a gentleman, and treat your woman just right without being passive. If you haven't been able to do it it just means you got to know yourself better and work on yourself. Admitting into whatever "ideal" just because is not an option, becoming better is a lifelong job.
@@chiluditospro2 Not convinced he's saying that his dad IS a doormat, just that he used to see him that way for reasons he thinks in retrospect were childish. Whatever the case, it's a positive thing when someone matures enough to let go of long-held resentment - that's tough to do, and an impressive act of self-betterment if ever I've heard of one.
@@SunnyDementia I love how idiots like yourself exist and talk in exactly the same way no matter where they come from in the world. The folks here justifying the occupation against Palestine use your _exact_ phrasing and 'argumentative tactics'. Talk about NPCs...
@@Deolrin It appears you have a problem with pointing out intellectually lazy (and false) ad hominems meant to dismiss an argument rather than confront it. Also, it sounds to me like you've naively detected the structure of a logical argument. Logic is akin to math insomuch as it is universal.
Many MRAs do that, they just don't get traction. There was this Canadian dude named earl Silverman who was a victim of DV. He looked for shelters but could not find any, so he started his own. He was endlessly harassed for doing so (by "feminists" and other groups) to the point where he committed suicide.
I love how I didn't catch it until she said "male straights". I had to go back and double checked that I read the CCs correctly, since they said "male gaze"
@no, my name is tyler Double entendre: _noun_ , a word or phrase open to two interpretations, one of which is usually risqué or indecent. guise: _noun_ , an external form, appearance, or manner of presentation, typically concealing the true nature of something. Are either of those what you meant? If not you'll need to be more specific. 😶
Me: Well I mean yes the plot is quit engaging. Me: You watch it for the plot? Where else have I heard that? Me: O.o We're talking about porn aren't we?
never going to happen when modern day feminism literally exists to put men down. it used to be about making things equal for both men and women, now its about propping women up at the expense of men. look at any disney marvel project in the last few years. or the barbie movie as a prime example. 'the patriarchy' is mentioned at least 7 times. men are a joke in that movie. any recent disney adaption discards the male hero in favor of an 'empowered' female who doesnt need a man. men these days are punished by the feminist movement just for existing. we're told we're toxic if we want to increase our value by going to the gym and training to obtain a respectable physique or for having nice cars etc. its no wonder male suicide is through the roof
Why da fu#k men need a "men's rights movement"??. Also, this is a English speaking country think. This is literally non existent in a year other country, no matter how conservative it is
I will say, as a trans man, since I transitioned I've felt people are much less willing to accept my emotions. Especially after going to a liberal arts college. I felt like people were constantly like, "Men need to start expressing their emotions!!!" And then as soon as you do you're the immature and babyish one.
ALSO, follow up, I think one of the difficulties of men connecting with each other is emotional connection is painted as weak now. Men feel like they can only emotionally connect with women while their guy friends are people they only really shoot the shit with. Then, when said woman friend doesn't want to be more, they become angry because they are so afraid of losing the one emotional connection they had. A generalization, but I think this happens a lot.
Евгения Михайловна I agree, something people miss is that it’s not like women are praised for displaying emotions or that they’re even encouraged to do so- its more that it’s written off as it being a womanly thing to do. Personally as a woman, I do feel pressured not to display my emotions and have great difficulty in expressing them as a result. Our culture equates emotions with weakness and both with being a woman, so it hurts everyone in the end I think (though I’m not arguing equally)
@@prikas4313 that's a great point! I know that's definitely true, but I guess what I'm saying is there are certain ways in which I feel women can express emotions and it goes unquestioned whereas if I did that people would tell me to grow up. It's interesting because in once sense the woman is having her emotions taken seriously and in another it's saying, "well women are emotionally weak anyway" and in turn granting sort of a higher maturity to the man. And honestly at this point in my life I'm not crazy concerned about whether stuff affects people "equally". Oppression is oppression is oppression and that's all gonna intersect within every individual and its it's gonna be crazy different for everyone. I think the most important thing is just acknowledging it happens and working to better it. Anyway there's my ramble.
Gender really confuses me. It didn't help that I was raised by a single mom with a deep hatred for men. She wanted me to believe that as a man, I would never be capable of being a good person. I can't imagine what sort of trauma contributed to her outlook. Luckily even as a child I realized how absurd the claim was. I think being a good person has nothing to do with gender or sex.
That's tough. How old we you when this became apparent? Did you have siblings or cousin or classmates to "compare notes" with? My mom is this . . . the silence, the hurt .. really my mom is more like WAAAAAAA!!!! my mom say nothing but how good I am. My mom just cries. - like that. It help as a a kid if you know you are not the only one. I should imagine. Your mum was abused, most women are. Most abuse victims do not become better or even good people for the experience. They often become complex, needy, manipulative, deceptive. It took me too long to see this in myself. And I may be doing it now. For a victim "good" is "it stops with me" you don't repeat it on kids, women anyone. Try not to.
Honestly, being brought up in more or less full family, I still remember my mother being nasty to me because of her own issues with my father, or basically favouring my older sister, because she fulfilled her expectations faster than me. The older you get, the more you see, and honestly? Sometimes the more confusing it gets. I think we should just be ourselves, and separate the gender from our being. It may seem kinda crazy at first, but it's just that your existence can't revolve just around your gender. And I think it's kind of a good way out. So yeah, I feel you, i'm really sorry you've experienced this and I really hope we can all just be the better ones in life. Cheers.
It's true, there's no hope of being a good person whether you're a man woman or anything in between. We are all trash in the uncaring non-eyes of the cosmos
Toxic masculinity is a term that actually came out of a men’s rights group in America in the seventies, as difficult as everyone seems to find that to believe.
If memory serves, I believe it came from the Men’s Liberation Movement. The MLM (lol) split into what’s still referred to as the Men’s Liberation Movement and the Men’s Rights Movement. The main difference is that the MLM is pro-feminism, while the MRM is generally anti-feminist. The term “toxic masculinity” came from the pro-feminist Men’s Liberation Movement.
Honestly I've never been as physically or emotionally close to my step brother as I should or in comparison to my sisters. I told him I loved him and showed him I loved him but I didnt do much physically. I need to hug my step brother.
I think that’s one reason why I have so many more friends that are women or trans guys than cis guys, and that those friendships are closer. I can be openly affectionate with them, and it’s not a punch-on-the-arm kind of affection. I do need emotional support, and because of the way I am it can’t be hidden or dismissible.
@@aeroandspace I used to have close guy friends. Not a lot, but one or two at a time. In recent years, my closest friends are all female. If young men isolate from each other, I think older guys do so even more, and this is at a time when they are getting less attention from women, too.
I'm really glad you care about your boys. I think more people need to realize that men's rights and women's rights aren't opposites but rather suffering siblings.
@dandeliondoodle I disagree. Men's "rights" are not and never have been "suffering," at least not in the ways women's rights had up until ~1974. As this video states, the identity of a male... what is a man... is the 'suffering' concept. And that, with all it subsumes, impacts both the identity and rights of females. What it "meant" to be a man before this time of effectual identity crisis included giving women rights and privileges, and that shaped both identities. Fuckin' deep, broh.
This video hit me pretty hard. Coming from a person who struggled with my identity for such a long time, really only feeling comfortable identifying as a man within the past year or so. Especially as a black man I also feel the need to be extra reserved, I never want to be felt as a threat or like I’m angry. Because I don’t feel that as who I am. But at the same time I also need to understand that despite reactions toward me may be because of a racial bias. It also may be because I’m a dude and dudes do crazy shit. There needs to be distinction and that’s hard to distinguish sometimes.
I am sorry that people are being so racist towards you. Those people who are afraid of you for being black need to get over themselves and they need to stop being rude and prejudiced.
This bias has gaslit men by proxy we're fearful about ourselves being dangerous when we know we're not dangerous so we're taking extra care of doing something we know we don't do. Yet we have a right to be angry when we feel like something isn't right and people seeing us as a threat just by existing is a reason to be angry. When we have to change not them, that isn't fair at all.
The masculine ideals I've tried to replicate come from Aragorn from Lord of the Rings and Uncle Iroh from Avatar. Is it super nerdy? Maybe. But their open kindness and honesty and fierce loyalty to those they care about I think are ideals worth emulating.
Incredibly based. It's great to hear someone echo my exact thoughts about Aragorn, and I forgot how applicable Iroh is here! Fun stuff. Nerdy but 100% relevant and accurate all the same.
True, but those two alone still don't feel like all that much. Aragorn basically only needed to step up to responsibility, as a warrior in line for the throne. Iroh has made most of his life decisions already and is mostly just an old mentor. A lot of the male MCs who are either teenagers or young adults fight as one the the main things they do, or have some other way in which they are unique/special, and that simply doesn't resonate all that much with me. And a lot of public figures are definitely not worth looking up to.
The problem with Kronk is that he's at best, a bumbling idiot who happens to be big, strong, and kind-hearted. At worst, he's so gullible that he's made into an accomplice for a literal would-be conqueror and usurper who only cares about herself. If Kronk were smarter and more savvy, then yes, I would agree, but I don't want a bumbling servant as a male icon just because he bakes delicious spinach puffs.
As a straight man who often felt like there was no purpose in life, I have found that the best solution was to adopt a more humanistic view of the world. It wasn't so much avoiding my role as a man, but rather to emphasize my role as a human being and deemphasizing the traditional male role. That's not to say that I've washed my hands clean of taking responsibility for myself, in fact it has liberated me into creating an honest meaning to life rather than trying to live someone else's. This in turn has shaped my view of the world and how I act around others. It includes things like treating others the way I would want to be treated and not taking myself too seriously. Life became a little easier when I stopped conflating my gender with who I really was as a person. I think in some ways we are all seeing the world through the eyes of the universe, experiencing itself through many different stories. If that's true then I'd only be hurting myself if I caused pain for others.
Damn well said, I deffinitly think you've got the right idea. The most liberating thing I've done for myself was to stop thinking I had to be at least a little cold or competitive to get through life, I think a lot of guys were told that through one way or another. Its not true though, you can be honest about how much you like and care for other people without becoming weak, in fact I'd argue it really makes you stronger, because you realize when other people try to hurt you in someway they are usually in a lot of pain themselves, and I suddenly you're not hurt anymore, you just feel compassion.
Transitioning to a man was (and still is) a very strange thing in today's world. When I realized I was a trans man I put off transitioning because I had a very negative view of men. Most of it came through bullies in highschool. Then one day I kinda used the feminist ideas I learned and applied it to my transition. I used to tell myself, "I am a woman no matter what I wear or do." So I changed it to, "I am a man no matter what I wear or do". That was really freeing for me, but I still had a lot of social dysphoria. How could I be seen as a man, but still like who I am as one? Thankfully, my grandpa's are wonderful men. They are blacksmiths, carpenters, artists, and spend lots of time in nature. I started to associate those things with manhood and have my own sense of masculinity now. While I'm not out as trans to them yet (only a few family members know. It's difficult with religion), they invite me to their "man circles" where I get to talk and have drinks with the other men in the family. They are so happy to have me there, and I'm happy to be there too. I hope men can find there own ways of expressing there masculinity like I have .
I tell myself that manhood isnt what a lot of people see it as- and i often try to model myself after a father/uncle figure people need more of in their life. Being kind, compassionate, and caring for children isnt only a feminine trait- it can also be the trait of fathers, protectors, and big brothers. Transitioning FtM is really hard, and its harder when people percieve your biggest traits as inherently feminine.
ContraPoints has literally become my monthly round of reassurance that I'm not going completely insane. Glad to see someone making a positive impact using their platform.
A couple of years ago I remember a Reddit thread that asked what should people know about being a man. A dad commented that when he takes his children to the park and he is extremely uncomfortable talking to younger children who approach him to ask questions or for small talk bc he has to keep it short in order to not seem predatorial. It was so insightful for me as a woman to hear that, it’s something I always remembered. I never thought men were insecure about the measure of safety they present. As a sexual assault survivor, I am in always in fear of men and my fear can induce a lot guilt and shame for being afraid. Which is very much internalized. I just never knew men even thought or cared about their appearance of being safe.
i think it's also important with that to recognize how isolating it is, something Natalie repeated throughout. people are supposed to have relationships with their community. it can feel good to have a conversation with a kid about some weird little kid question they have. feeling like you're not allowed to talk to people you're not familiar with is super damaging, for all people, and having that specific to certain groups of people i think reinforces some of the things feminism is fighting. men feeling they shouldn't talk to kids makes us less prepared for caretaking roles. a lot of men don't feel they're allowed to take care of others, which is a human instinct and not a gendered one. as a trans guy people have questioned my gender based on the fact that i like to take care of my friends, making food or plugging their phones in when they pass out at my place. and truth be told, at first i thought i was fully nonbinary because the caricature of manhood is difficult to embrace. it's strange when you think about how masculine the word "provider" feels. the idea of providing for others being separated from caretaking is absurd, but it does feel that way. fatherhood is supposed to be about taking care of kids and being a voice of wisdom who also plays and makes excruciatingly bad jokes and teaches kids words they are not prepared for the consequences of using. to be fair it still can be, but only with your own kids, because you are a danger to others. it stops the natural desire to share. it punishes it. that's not on women alone, but i think it would help to rethink throwing around phrases like "men are trash." the more we say it, the more we believe it.
@Freekazoid Thanks for your concerns. I'm already in therapy and I do not think there is an immediate danger. It just feels so unfair that I just want to make friends, but sadly mass culture has succeeded in making too many people believe that women are victims and men are oppressors or predators. I wish mass media would show more friendship, kindness, love and decency between all groups - no matter if it's gender, sexuality, race, class, beliefs, etc.
@Freekazoid I get what you are saying and you are correct. Nevertheless, if you replaced "men" with "black" and "women" with "white" in your sentence, then it would be ridiculously offensive and racist. It's good that racism is so actively opposed by culture. I wish anti-men sentiments would be treated with similar opposition. Maybe culture will come around to this in a hopefully near future.
@@DoubleBob Hey Bob, hope you are doing better by now. Even though I understand that your experiences might have been isolating and unfair I really have to disagree that this is completely comparable to racism. Unlike black people men (mostly white but I mean as a gender in general) have held a lot of power. And since 97% of women have faced sexual harrassment or worse it‘s pretty understandable that women fear men. I understand that being judged because of something you can‘t control or change is always shitty but try to empathize a little with the other side. Racism is not comparable as white people never had any legitimate reason for fear while women do.
I’ve worked with men in psychological crisis and the amount of times I’ve seen them both deny help and later, admit something is messing with their idea of being a “ good man “ or a “ strong man “
Having been in a mixed psych ward I've seen some pretty effd up women who are completely delusional. Not sure how this relates to your post but I thought I'd throw it in there just to remind everyone that women can be nuts too.
Sharing a point of view from a group that also feels invisible. Women that are not traditionally attractive, or feminine. Having been in that category plenty of times, I have to say that it is a place that is just as invisible as most men feel. Not only on dating sites, but on the whole. My personal experience has been one of either potential target, or white noise. Looking like a dumpy mom has its advantages, invisibility being one of them. Being considered attractive lends its own kind of privilege. Also, just my opinion, maybe women would be less likely to be paranoid of all men if we weren't always told that our safety is our own problem. Our dress, location, and manner can and usually are used against us if we are ever assaulted.
I was one of those people who discernibly "glowed-up" after puberty, and so the difference in treatment I received from familiar men and strangers alike was astounding. Instead of being ridiculed and seen as a thing to humiliate/exclude due to my appearance, I'm now seen as an object of desire. I've been stalked by men on 5 different occasions in broad daylight, I've had several instances where a stranger touched me inappropriately in public (the worst one was probably when some dude at an art gallery suddenly decided to rub his hard dick against my bum), and the cat-calling and staring never end. Oh, and just thinking about all the creepy behavior from college professors and TAs I witnessed as an undergrad makes me depressed. I don't like it, I've never liked it, and it has nothing to do with how attractive the person doing it to me is. I wear a lot of black, full-ish coverage, loose clothing now. Ultimately it made me realize that the treatment I received before and after stemmed from the same place. Being seen as more attractive just because I fulfill a very narrow set of normative standards doesn't mean men have begun to see my humanity; it means my value in reference to their desires has changed. And I'm sure when the aging process begins, it'll happen all over again. It makes me sad that as women, our lived experiences can become so warped on such a limited set of circumstances. At this point, I'm kinda just refusing to cannibalize my identity, refusing to base my self-worth on a false premise that doesn't value anything related to my agency or humanity.
Yes, being dumpy, pudgy and old is a ticket to invisibility and even, sometimes, being a target of outrage. Some people resent their mothers. But is that about gender as much as it is about valuing aesthetics above authenticity? Just throwing that out there.
@@PG-wz7by If I could weigh in on the conversation, I think women and beauty are related on the level that standards of beauty are always higher/more demanding.
I feel you. I mean, the term 'incel' was *created* by a woman who felt invisible, right? It sucks that men and boys who are hurting look around and see women as the cause.
Speaking as someone who is fairly attractive, my less conventionally attractive friends definitely get passed over in a way I don't (for better or for worse). I would argue, in spite of the difficulties men may face being regarded as visible people, they have the advantage of having the ability to prove their worth outside of looks. An ugly woman will be overlooked in intellectual, comedic, artistic, whatever pursuits in a way a man often won't. Just as an example, consider how many ugly but accomplished leading male actors of all ages there are, versus - forget even ugly! - just OLDER female leads cast alongside them.
How to parody the men on social medias who state that they are sooo rational refering chromosones and SCienCE every time the word "gender" appears, but, also to parody all the comment and youtuber who talk all the damm time about astrology to justify anything. In the words of Adore Delano: I'm a f*cking libraaaaa
@@christianc.christian5025 Completely agree it's just some narcissists pseudoscientific speech they use to comfort themselves in their reality *red pill
Man is alone in the world, in tremendous eternal isolation. He has no object outside himself; lives for nothing else; he is far removed from being the slave of his wishes, of his abilities, of his necessities; he stands far above social ethics; he is alone. Thus he becomes one and all.-Otto weininger
Well .. they keep sending us to war like expendable cannon fodder. And I guess we really are just that. And then we get shit on for "toxic masculinity"... Clearing houses in Afghanistan, we were told, in no uncertain terms to shoot any supposed corpses in the dick, and one in the chest. That fucking changes you.
The mention of the extreme differences in social dynamics of emotional vulnerability is so true. I remember having some mindblowing conversations with an ex about the emotional sharing and support between her friends. For example, she knew the things her friends were insecure about, and would actively try to avoid putting them in uncomfortable situations, as well as give them positive affirmation regarding those insecurities. Meanwhile, I genuinely don't even know the emotions of my closest friends, one of them could be contemplating suicide and our conversation would just be about our jobs or hobbies. There's this weird pressure in our culture to never show weakness or vulnerability, and keeping that mask up is absolutely exhausting. Even among super close friends, its seen as embarassing or shameful to mention emotions, so most guys just hide it and suffer in silence. I kind of suspect this is a huge reason why for so many guys, their "dream wife/girlfriend" is just somebody who will listen to their problems, since thats pretty much the only way they can get emotional release without shame. They can't go to therapy, since that would mean admitting they have a problem, and are therefore "weak," so they try to find that therapeutic relationship in the only form that doesn't make them seem weak, which is a significant other.
I don't necessarily think the solution to this problem of emotion bottling is just more feminine friendships although. I think male friendships can be just as amazing and fulfilling as female friendships, just in completely different ways, which is why male friendships are generally based on fucking around and having fun with video games, and why female friendships are generally based on having deep emotional connections. I think what a lot of people on the left are doing is promoting this weird feminine way of being a man that rarely any dude would actually like to be, and part of that is definitely that feminine aspect of showing your emotions. For that reason of how showing emotions is often not very liked by men, including myself, this makes the philosophy of Stoicism very, very misunderstood. It is more about understanding your emotions and not letting them control you in bad ways and disciplining yourself which is important in the workplace and in romantic settings, than just bottling up your emotions willy-nilly that might eventually end in suicide at the extreme.
@@rudalph5923 " just more feminine friendships" Honestly I think a lot of men would benefit from a couple cross gender friendships. I had a couple amazing female friends in college and honestly sometimes it's good to just sit around talking and eating and building emotional intimacy. Even if I want the majority of my friendships to be based around shared hobbies. At the same time I think the left is trying really hard to get men to have straight up feminine feelings talk. I have had all sorts of conversations with men and their insecurities but it's always framed in terms of what action to take (a common issue with men's opinion of therapy as well) and sharing experiences rather than group psychotherapy. There are a lot of mens issues and it's tough that even this video despite drawing attention to the issue is completely dismissive of any responsibility to fix the masculine role. It'd be like if men in the 70s were like "equal pay? Sounds like an issue women need to figure out." We need studies, we need trials, and we need policy changes.
Tbh i have difficults to relate to that narrative as a man, i don't like the term cis tbh but i know other people Will see me as such, but the thing i cant understand its this monolith of "men interact throught hobbies and never develop deep conections" i'm a millenial from a not so progresive country in my development years and i can remember and tell countless of times of deep conections and empathy between men of all ages, i Saw male Friends cry and being emotional between Friends and Even on públic, nobody thougth less of them, ofc the sexist jokes and what not were there and other prejudices, but never to the extent of this narrative that men didnt Even care about their Friends family or life, and the same with women, ive Saw some toxic and cold/distant friendships between them, not everyone was super deep and conected just cause they were women, but somehow after all these years ive supposed to erase those experiences and jump on that generalization cause others says? @@rudalph5923
@@rudalph5923 as a leftist I support your right to express your gender (as an identity and as a social person) in any way you want. I may disagree with some of your beliefs the way you disagree with mine, but I hope you can find a balanced, fulfilling life pursuing any type of expression feels right to you. I agree that in many ideological spaces (which absolutely includes the left) it is common to put ideals above people, and while generally that's reasonable when talking to a bigot it's not really helpful in any other situation. So, for whatever it's worth, I hope you do you and live a happy, authentic life.
I'm just gonna leech off of someone else's comment that's getting attention, but who else is checking out contrapoints because of Tim Tool? I am. Contra Points is pretty good too imo.
honestly having someone whistle "Row Row Row Your Boat" while you are the only two people in an elevator sounds like the first scene in a horror movie.
kylaXstanley ah yeah I don’t doubt his intentions were pure of heart 😂 just my morbid mind couldn’t help constructing a creepy narrative, I just love creepy narratives.
Last night my wife and I were having some drinks with friends. I was wearing a black leather mini skirt, Batman Crop top, a crop top biker jacket, and my Demonia platform boots. A man comes up to me. The was a big burly biker looking guy wearing a cutoff denim vest with patches all over it, flannel shirt, dirty cargo jeans, and combat boots. I thought he was going to kick my ass. No. He came up to me and wanted to thank me. He always wanted to experiment with more feminine clothes and was too afraid until he saw me with my friends laughing and having a great time. I was the person who made him feel like it was safe to be himself. I told him clothes are just clothes. They keep you warm and cover your privates. That's all they are. If you want to wear a dress and heels do it. Anyone who has issue with that doesn't need to be a part of your life. Men often feel like they have to put on a fascade of what society tells us a "Real Man" is. Parents need to be the ones to change that.
I have guys ask me ALL THE TIME: "Where'd you get those pants??" And when I tell them 🤨"the women's section" It never turns into disrespect. They actually look at me like I'm a bigger man, cuz they couldn't do that.. 😮💨
@@Nathouuuutheone Just a play on words reflecting the incoherence and inanity of right-wing rhetoric. Kind of a mash-up of "think of the children" and "family values". Also a comment on the emotional immaturity of people who complain about social-justice movements.
I will say, the 11 and 12 year old boys I worked with in a rural middle school, they were comfortable hugging their male friends and saying I love you. They never said no homo or seemed uncomfortable. There's hope.
I do hold out some hope for younger people at least in my country. Here in the UK I suspect it's because they're the first generation not to have lived under the shadow of Section 28 (a homophobic law brought in by Thatcher) or the even worse intolerance which existed before it. The right-wing politicians here are deathly afraid of the kids not being as susceptible to their bullshit as previous generations, you see endless rants from them and RW media figures decrying "wokeness".
That’s awesome :) In my small Discord group of 3 straight 35 yo men and me they’re sometimes freely saying “I love you guys” or “when is our next DnD session, I miss you”. It warms my heart so much to read it. And they discuss mental health issues between each other. There’s hope
26:58 “We tell [men] they’re broken without telling them how to fix themselves.” SPOT ON. It’s not enough to talk about what we’re against. We need to start talking about what we’re for.
Robo Mop AGREE, complaining is fun, and you don’t really need to think about it. but when that’s all people do it doesn’t feel like activism, it’s just a support group. and support groups are great, but only complaining and then saying you do it to make a change without ever suggesting a change just doesn’t sit well with me. so I think you have a great idea here!
Well there are actually some people who are telling men how to fix themselves. Jordan Peterson, for one, and his message seems to resonate fine with the young male crowd.
Yifei Jia For sure. While I have issues with Peterson, the fact is there’s a dearth of advice and role models for lost men to turn to, and for better or for worse, he’s filling a void that few other people are.
Men are not interested in being told what to do. We don't want to hear that we are broken and that we need to be fixed. We don't want you to talk, we want you to listen. We want you to be kind and supportive and call out feminists that are toxic.
Not sure if I'm alone in this, but I feel like the problem isn't simply male identity, but male identity combined with financial issues that only seem to be getting worse. We're constantly shown images of what "success" for men looks like, but we're increasingly denied the means to obtain that. In addition, it's difficult to date or have friends when you have no time or money for that. It's difficult to have any sense of community when people have to constantly move for work. It's difficult to have any sense of hope or optimism when the world around you only keeps getting worse, and you see no viable way out of it. Not saying that things like toxic masculinity aren't also major problems that effect the current state of men, but we also shouldn't ignore that economics is a primary driver in this.
Men need to develop non-economic definitions of manhood. Women face a similar sort of obstacle, trying to define themselves as something other than their reproductive function.
I mean, I'm quite happy with more and more men(and people in general) finding their way to more economy-focused, Marxist ideas. Society has hyperfocused on the socio-cultural for too long, at the expensive of economics(wages, secondary work benefits, labour rights, proper working conditions, social safety nets).
It's something I've noticed outside of "The Grind" a lot of people are boring. If they're not doing something they're not "interesting" so they do more and more so seem "interesting". The problem is not everybody can do this as you said. Which means a lot of people seem stuck yet there's an issue at the top as well as the bottom since both sides get caught up. The top is bored because they can do anything the struggle is gone. The bottom is tired because all they're doing is struggling. The "toxic masculinity" is just bandaids methods to keep that feeling of comradery it works in small doses yet easy to OD on. Our humanity is what makes us great yet it's so hard to be human when we have to worry about other humans doing wrong by us. Which is why I don't like government bodies have too much control. Then the media doesn't help at all yet that's a whole rant on it own with how the media created "toxicity" for both genders and people even if they don't realize accepted it. Like there needs to be a way to talk about it without jackasses yelling and being disruptive when something they don't like is spoken. A lot of feelings need to be hurt before we get better since it's better to get it all out so it can be corrected then it popping up later.
My partner (male, bless him) is tall and bearded and used to be a bit rounder in the belly than he is now. A large boy with a loud voice, but gentle and thoughtful and kind. He isn't a particularlly masculine guy socially - if he feels like crying he WILL cry. And it'll be loud. And he will want hugs. He is also disabled with severe fatigue and often needs a wheelchair. The way people treat him when he is in a wheelchair to when he is standing up is night and day, even disregarding the people who go "Hello there!!! How are you?? are you going on a FUN walk?!?" like he is a baby. (Not a problem - just funny. I'm sure some people in wheelchairs really appreciate that friendly interaction.) People are more talkative, more friendly, more open and honest with how they feel. Sitting in a wheelchair strips away everything that might make him appear intimidating to people. Even other men treat him differently. It's super weird... and really sad. The times where he feels the most connected to others socially is when he is feeling too sick to stand up. That, to me, is pretty fucking dire. The way people subconsciously alter their behavior around men is so stark that it completely emotionally cuts them off from EVERYONE.
thanks for sharing your/his perspective. just as a thought, why only use the wheelchair when he's so exhausted he can barely function? he seems to have consistent severe fatigue, yes? i think chronically ill people are reluctant to "resort to" mobility aids, and then reluctant to use them as much as would actually be helpful, because they've internalized messages from society about what using those devices would mean about them personally: that they're play-acting sick or that they're lazy and just don't feel like walking, and so on. if it would improve his life, including having people be more open and kind to him when he's actually lucid enough to appreciate it, why not use the tools for what they're meant for?
Cis white male here, one who struggles with chronic depression and anxiety, and watching this made me think of a book my therapist recommended to me. It focused on depression in men, and a good portion of it focused on toxic masculinity - specifically, how men are trained from a very young age to be as loud and influential as possible but not express their emotions at all, in contrast to how women were raised from a young age to value emotional connection at the expense of their social expression. The effect of this mindset is fairly obvious; women by default can express their emotions more freely in society but have less of a voice, while men by default are individualistic social climbers who struggle with interpersonal connection. Hence why a good portion of men, especially successful ones, develop depression and other mental illnesses, where women struggle to be 'successful' but tend to have strong support groups to lean back on. Honestly, I think both sides need help. Women deserve to have their voices heard and their needs and wants considered just as much as men, AND men need to be able to express themselves on a more personal, intimate level in society without it being disregarded. They're both valid points, and while men feeling bad about their lives isn't as pressing an issue as trans rights or women's reproductive rights on the surface, it becomes a more serious issue when more men start killing themselves, killing themselves AND their families, or going to public places and shooting wildly into the crowds. The real problematic people to me are the ones that think we have to focus on either men or women exclusively, or even at the cost of the other, because that's only going to save one side of the bridge while burning the other...and eventually that fire will spread and consume everything anyway. We're all human. We all need help. We all deserve to express ourselves as a full person, inside and out, and be treated as a person for it.
@@SamuraiShizuo That's awful! I'm so sorry you went through that. For what it's worth, I care, and I'm sure others in this comment section do too. Are you coping okay now, seeing anyone about it?
I got emotional when you talked about men being treated as dangerous by default. It's the first time I ever heard someone talk about it. Maybe it's something inevitable, but it still hurts, so thank you for the recognition.
@@danthelambboy women are trained from a very young age to be afraid of men. It's an unfortunate necessity as men are bigger, stronger and face no consequence for harming us.
@@pattygould8240 they do face consequences. In fact in US far larger consequences than women for the same crimes, a fact that can be proven by looking at statistics. If women where taught to understand men they wouldnt need blanket fear, fear doesnt protect them, fear more often than not makes them vulnerable and appearing vulnerable makes someone more likely to be attacked. Schools really should have psychology and sex studies from a young age because parents usually don't understand people well enough to teach properly. Perhaps more men who are dehumanized by women would respect those women more if they didnt do that to them.
@@pattygould8240 this!!!! My mom told me every day as a child that men only want to hurt me, use me, and have sex with me. Now (10+ years later) I am sexually confused and deeply afraid of all men. I have no idea how to stop being afraid or how to figure any of it out. I know my fear I irrational but it still feels very real. I hate living like this.
Kind of off topic but i feel the comments on this video can serve as a very positive space to talk about how black men arent dangerous and are more often extremely kind and helpful dudes. An example: once i took the wrong bus and then ended up in very east of Troost in kansas city, which is a very largely black neighborhood. At the time i presented very feminine and i am white. It started pouring fuckin rain the moment i got off the bus and it was also another hour before another bus came going back. So i started walking to twoish miles west to my place in westport. About 20 minutes into this i am soaked to the bone and an older black man pulled up to me and asked me if i needed a ride. I was hesitant at first and he literally showed me his drivers license and said i could take a picture. He also said i could take a picture of his car and lisence plate. He was putting a significant amount of his personal info on the line for some random white girl. Anyway i was so thankful and taken aback by this i just got in his car and thanked him profusely, soaking his passengers seat in the process. He drove me home and then gave me 20 fuckin dollars after because i mentioned i couldnt afford my inhaler. He had a niece that died due to an asthma attack so he felt compelled to help me even though we talked about some of his own struggles as he drove me home. He gave me his business card but that was like five years ago so ive lost it. I think about that man often though and as ive transitioned to male he is one of my main masculine icons. I hope to be as paternal and caring and capable as him someday. Anyway yeah. Black men are not a threat, they are allies to all in a very broken society who largely make it better just by existing.
fellow kcer here! in grandview tho!! eta: wow, this story is beautiful. I grew up in LS where there were almost no black people, moved away to california for five years during my early twenties, then back and various parts of kc are way more integrated now than they were then. I've worked a few jobs where the workforce was nearly 40% black and I find that a lot of older black folks are extremely helpful in general, not to mention generous. I can totally see this happening in downtown KC. and yeah, young men of color IME are consistently some of the most outwardly agreeable people
I've had many, many black male friends who I trusted more than any of my female peers. One dude was even prepared to help me walk home when I missed the bus. But as I'm not white, I don't have that view of black men being a threat. More like. They're allies, anything Native people do, black people will join in. I think for me, I'd like to tell white women. Is. That sometimes you need to let the man be, don't stare. But definitely book it when things do get dangerous. Which yeah, it happens.
this is the story of me and my best friends by chance winding up living in a very overwhelmingly urban black neighborhood in jersey city... and feeling more welcome and comfortable and accepted into the community more so than anywhere I have ever lived (mostly new england / canada / and texas)
It is the easiest prejudice to shed. If any rich person has a problem with very accurate assumptions made about them I am perfectly happy to help them lose this.
Nope. You think you found a shortcut to morality by reflexively opposing power, but history does not make light of any prejudice. Many tens of millions perished over prejudices that formerly disempowered groups held against powerful ones. Anti-rich prejudice is why the left in many countries managed to end up on the wrong side of history. Former Soviet immigrants like my Ukrainian friends and their families can attest to the futility of it. Anti-colonial prejudice fueled the Rwandan genocide. Prejudice is not a solution, it is a problem. Occasionally, for very short periods, it can accelerate progress, but it must be quickly forgiven, or it can cause decades of damage. As someone who knows a little about progress once said: The ends and the means are not separate, the means are present in the ends and the ends present in the means.
Can I just say, I'm a pretty big dude, but if I was alone in an elevator with someone and they started whistling "row, row, row your boat" it would freak me out a hell of a lot more than if they were just riding it with me in silence.
Yeah I don't care who I'm in an elevator with, regardless of gender or race, if we've never met just keep your mouth shut and don't even look at me, you can politely ask me to push a button and that's it, don't start whistling children's songs at me
In hindsight, changing your YT name to Cat Crawford would have made this infinitely funnier. Or maybe he was trying to point out the cat near you. Either way, missed opportunities abound.
First time watching you, a few things: - why does this not have 10M+ views - the fact this came out 4 years ago is actually wild considering we weren't that far out of the 2016 era - this is about 9 billion times better than any of the videos about male issues put out today by youtubers demonizing the left every other word - Natalie quite literally stole my heart - my only concrete issue is that it's not 10 hours long so I have less of something I really like Had my right wing phase, happy to be here. This entire video still feels extremely relevant today and I'm happy I found it.
@@jordanstark5924 Natalie starts out this video from 4 years ago, saying 2016 wasn’t that long ago, there’s no need for unwarranted criticism or correcting. Let’s be nice to each other!
I'm 6"5 and black. I definitely get treated as dangerous. Seeing some woman walk in front of me at night, look over her shoulder, speed up and get her phone out, or more often walk to the other side of the street, is not uncommon. I always try to remember that women have to be more aware (in lack of a better word) of danger, than I do - I don't really have to pay attention to where it's safe for me to go after dark... but sometimes I just want to speed past them and say "I'm just trying to get home myself!! My god". Also, whenever I pass a parent out with his or her kid, the knee-jerk reaction when they see me is to call their child to them or like reach out for them. These are just two minor examples where I can always predict the reaction I will get, for simply being present. It's subconscious, but it's frustrating. I don't look scary and I'm friendly and a good guy.
Sorry to hear about that. There's a great book called "Whistling Vivaldi" about guys who have similar experiences. It's not uncommon, unfortunately. I even get some of that as a biracial gay guy 🤷🏾♂️
I'm really sorry, I try my hardest to understand how that feels. I'm a woman of color and in public I try to be as friendly as possible to everyone, especially men of color cause I know how much crap you get for just existing, and how hurtful all those microaggressions can be
Holy shit you're a full foot taller than me. Tbh I feel bad sometimes to be so obviously trying to avoid people in public but yeah people are scary. Sorry dude.
"maybe the average man is also oppressed by the system women call patriarchy." This. Yes. This is a perfect point. We're all being screwed by the same system, and people need to realize this. I don't mean this as a jab to feminism or as the example troll who's saying "yell well men also", we just have a social system in place that forces so many people to be what they dont want to be and it causes so much self loathing leading to projection and hatred.
Hey Natalie, I know this is kind of an old video and I'm pretty sure you're not gonna read this comment and I realize most viewers won't either, but I just wanna say thank you for always being empathetic. I also wanna share my experience. So, I now identify as a trans woman but I've lived as a gay man my whole life and I haven't transitioned yet. Some of the things you said in this video about being a man (or presenting as a man when you're actually a trans woman) deeply resonated with me. I appreciate your perspective so much because I rarely see it being represented in left-leaning circles. When I was a kid, I was already very feminine and flamboyant, so a lot of kids would call me names in school and that of course included homophobic/transphobic slurs like fa**ot, s*ssy, etc, and they were usually hurled at me by boys. But what was unique about my experience is that I was also bullied a lot by girls. Sometimes they'd just use the same homophobic/transphobic slurs a lot of the boys used, but a lot of girls also called me creepy and avoided me like the plague even though I'm not attracted to girls and I literally hadn't done anything to them. Looking back, I think what caused that kind of reaction from girls was a combination of a lot of different factors, such as me being neurodivergent, my queerness, the fact that I wasn't conventionally attractive, me trying to be in close proximity with girls because I related to them more and wanted to hang out with them and be "one of them." But of course, they interpreted all of that as just me being "creepy" and used that as an excuse to treat me like a freak. The possibility that I might've just simply wanted to hang out with them didn't occur to them since I was a "boy" and boys aren't supposed to hang out with girls unless they're sexually attracted to them. I think the typical narrative when it comes to feminine gay men/trans women growing up in the closet as children is about how they usually have a lot of girlfriends and are accepted into communities that cishet men don't have access to. That was true for me too to an extent, but at the end of the day, even if I hung out with a couple of like-minded girls who actually treated me like a human being, I was always excluded from the larger community and most girls treated me like shit. So why didn't I turn out to be a misogynist who hates women? Well, it's simple. It's because I'm also a woman. It's because most boys also treated me like shit. Jocks hit me a lot. But even the nerdy boys who weren't considered conventionally attractive treated me like shit, because, even though we were pretty equal in terms of social status, I was feminine, and in their eyes, that made me a freak. Because I was also a girl, and because boys treated me like shit too, I was able to understand that it wasn't that girls were horrible monsters who didn't deserve rights. I understood that it was just kids in general, both boys and girls, who were cruel for no reason. If me being trans and feminine was what stopped me from becoming a misogynist, then what's to stop alienated, lonely, insecure cis straight men from turning into misogynists? NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. The truth that a lot of people in left-leaning circles often don't wanna hear is, that a lot of girls suck (just as a lot of boys also suck), and sometimes they just treat men like shit for no justifiable reason. Neurodivergent men, men who are considered unattractive, and men of color are especially vulnerable to this. Assuming other boys didn't treat them as bad as girls did since they had the privilege of growing up as cishet men, it's no wonder why they attribute this hurt solely to women when they grow up. If left untreated, this trauma can and does drive people to be resentful and arrive at harmful conclusions instead of facing the root cause. A rigid binary gender being enforced is what's behind all of this since it divides kids and sets up a structure that eventually turns boys and girls against each other. Toddlers don't care about gender as much as older kids do and they play with both boys and girls. But as kids grow up, they're forced into a binary environment in which you either have to be a sexual object or an objectifier, a conqueror or the conquered, a ruler or the ruled. Social interactions between boys and girls which don't involve sexual implications are heavily discouraged in this process, if not outright eliminated. Women who aren't deemed "feminine" and "pretty" enough aren't worthy of becoming objects that can sexually satisfy and comfort men after they come home from a long day of work tired, stressed, and miserable because of coerced labor in the capitalist system, therefore they have no value in society. Men who aren't deemed "masculine" and "strong" enough aren't worthy of becoming objectifiers who are entitled to conquer women like objects to compensate for the fact that they are commodities exploited for capital, therefore they have no purpose in life. That's how cisheteropatriarchy coerces both men and women into defining themselves in a way that reproduces itself. And this is exactly the environment in which boys are molded into misogynistic men who can only see women as objects that don't deserve rights. I believe this explains incels' hyper obsession with looks and sex. I also believe a lot of women who would describe themselves as left-leaning or even feminists engage in behavior that perpetuates this very system. For example, dick-shaming. I think a lot of women have this mentality that's like "we're body-shamed all the time and men have it easy, so let's give them a taste of their own medicine for once," but that completely ignores the fact that dick-shaming is also part of the same patriarchal system that reduces people, men and women alike, to their bodies and only assigns value or purpose to bodies that can either easily conquer or be easily conquered. It tells men that their dicks exist for one purpose only: to conquer women. It takes a part of your body and turns it against your soul as a reason why you're worthless. It goes without saying that some cis men who are feminists happen to have small dicks, and they don't deserve to be shamed. But I find dick-shaming particularly hurtful, partly because I, as a pre-op trans woman who was assigned male at birth, happen to have a small dick, too. And I'm not ashamed to admit that, because I think it's important to acknowledge that dick-shaming doesn't just hurt good men; it hurts trans women and genderqueer people who were assigned male at birth. It's also deeply hurtful to trans men who are insecure about their genitals and how that relates to society's idea of what manhood should look like. The same thing can be said about shaming men for being virgins. Combating incels and reactionary men is very important, but you can't meaningfully combat their presence by reinforcing the very idea that makes them so resentful in the first place: the idea that men's purpose in life must be to conquer women. In a modern society where only consensual sex based on mutual attraction is accepted, there are bound to be men who no woman's willing to have sex with. That's inevitable and can't be avoided. The question we should be asking is not how to make sure men like that don't exist or how to ignore them, but how to make sure men like that won't turn to misogyny as an answer to their perceived problems. We should be telling them that it's okay to not have sex, and that they don't have to be strong and masculine to be treated like they matter as men. Men like that are right in that they *are* victims, but they aren't victims of women. They too are victims of the patriarchy and we should be doing everything to help them realize that. This example, specifically, reminds me of liberal wine moms who make fun of Trump supporters for being "trailer park white trash." Like, sure, I'd imagine a lot of white people who live in trailer parks *do* support Trump and are very reactionary for sociological reasons, but there are also a lot of people like that who don't support Trump. And also, there is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with living in a trailer park. If anything, they are also victims of neoliberal capitalism, and we should be doing everything we can to open their eyes to that fact. Shaming them might feel good in the moment, but in reality, it's counter-productive because it only fuels their resentment towards who they perceive as "coastal liberal elites" and that in turn makes them even more hateful towards powerless minorities who are victims of the same system that's oppressing them. I've also noticed that some left-leaning POC unironically make fun of white people for things that aren't inherently bad, and I find that disappointing. Since white supremacy is often used to get white people to vote for politicians that will make their lives worse, white people are victims of white supremacy too but not many are willing to acknowledge that. It's like, a lot of people on the left are like the unironical conservative strawman of the angry, divisive Marxist whose worldview is just "rich people evil, poor people good," and applies that simple logic to any privileged and oppressed groups, when in reality, Marx mostly criticized systems, not individuals. But I digress... I wish to live in a world where both men and women recognize that they're both victims of the same system, and work together in solidarity. That starts with compassion. Again, thank you for always being so empathetic to everyone, Natalie. You're like a beacon of light in this cruel world. Your ability to see the bigger picture and empathize with even those who might see you as subhuman never ceases to amaze me. It's beyond admirable. Please keep doing what you're doing if you can and never forget how you positively impact the world 💓
@@LouDuLappe I’m glad my comment resonated with you ☺️ It’s something I wish more people were willing to talk about, and it’s good to know I’m not the only one who feels this way.
I will also add height shaming to the list of things women openly shame men for, as if short men have no worth at all. They are not even human beings to them.
Not gonna lie, as a dude just the fact that someone is even willing to take a step back and try to take a look at what's going on with us is extremely refreshing and touching.
As another dude. Why the f*ck would you care about 1 persons opinion? I mean, even if it's a positive one. That mindset is a weak mindset. Be more confident in yourself.
@@glp.1337 It's nice to feel seen by another person. Sure, it's good to develop a strong sense of self outside of that. But it's not weak or unconfident to appreciate someone trying to understand you. Dismissing those sorts of connections is brittleness - it's understandable to never want to bend again if you've been broken in the past, but it's not going to help you in the long run.
@@scottarthurson1602 It's nice to feel seen, I agree. But it is a weak mindset, at least from the males perspective. And sure, in Modern Western culture this might not be the case. But sadly Western Culture isn't globalized. He started with "as a dude" implying it's relevant to his statement so that's where I zoomed in. Because he is talking about his female traits and putting the emphasis on "as a dude" which is contradictory. So from a males point of view, this is considered a weak mindset. Not saying it is weak to feel appreciated in general. But the way he phrased everything made him look like he's looking for validation.
I’m a cis male. I’ve been raped by a woman, details aside. Did MGTOW have systems or support groups in place to help me? I didn’t specifically look, but it didn’t seem so. Where did I find support and help? Groups where I was the only man that welcomed me with open arms. Turns out the salient part of that equation isn’t your bits, but being a person struggling with the emotional difficulties involved with having been raped (unsurprisingly.) Side note: men looking for a specifically male/macho viewpoint on UA-cam that is positive and nontoxic, Beau of the Fifth Column is the channel for you.
"Invisible and Dangerous", I recently came out as non-binary and started presenting more femme, and I noticed that people in general (especially women) seem less guarded around me than they did when I presented masculine. Not even exaggerating, it was like someone flipped a light switch. I mean yeah, there's obviously _(gestures wildly)_ other issues that come with transitioning and presenting as a gender other than what you were born, but that was something that I *definitely* noticed.
Having started trying to present more androgynously, despite still having facial hair, I’ve noticed that too. It’s depressing how little empathy I got even in literal therapy before now. 🫠
I'm a trans guy, so I kinda have the reverse experience. When I first started passing, the social flip was SO jarring and lonely that I worried for a while that I'd made a mistake. People were suddenly very cold and distant with me, and it became very difficult to make friends. For a while, I actually intentionally presented more femininely, wearing earrings and painting my nails and stuff, just so people would be nice to me again. I switched back to a more traditionally masculine fashion sense recently, just because it better suits who I am, but, damn, I miss when people were friendly.
Go-gurt is most tactical as it fits in pistol mag pouches. Don't forget to put your oats and berries in the cleaning kit compartment in the butt stock.
I actually think that many people, even you Contra, don't understand how much you are doing to de-radicalise young men. Your incel vid talks about some of the horrible things incels fantasise about but also make clear to mention how utterly miserable these people are deep down. Getting them to feel better about themselves through empathy, as well as constructive criticism and some humour, could very well save lives, namely their own.
Contra has mastered the art of telling people to get their shit together, but in an empathetic way. That's one thing (maybe the only thing) she and Jordan Peterson have in common.
What amazes me the most is when otherwise "normal" people say shit like "lol you're just saying that because you're angry you can't get laid! What a loser!" Hmm, yeah, you're clearly making this problem better and not at all handing yet another bullet to the next Elliot Roger. And in case you thought that was a joke, yes I am blaming the idiot masses for these things. The people who point and laugh instead of offering a helping hand. It's not just incel shooters either, I've actually written an essay(granted, it was in high school ^.^) about this about 10 years ago. I did some research into why men do this (because it's almost always men), and it was SCARY to say the least. From the ones where the shooter survived, they almost always said that gunning down the people they hated was the LAST resort. They tried their school, their parents, even the authorities, but nobody helped them. So obviously, the last option is murder. Turns out that political terrorists are quite an exception, though they obviously do exist. But I think we're getting better. When I felt really shitty and started having these same thoughts, complete strangers on the internet actually reached out to me and genuinely wanted to help. I don't know if it's because the world is getting better, or simply that through the internet people can reach each other better than 10 years ago. So, in closing, if you see people like this, don't shit on them. I've been on both sides of this, and I can tell you that more hate doesn't solve the hate they already feel. But I suspect a lot of "normal" people are just as fucked as the incels, they just managed to get some sliver of social acceptance that they use to cope.
At this point, I've been a feminist for most of my adult life, and I've become aware of my tendency to hate myself at about the same time. I've been in therapy for a long time, but I still tend to isolate in my room. I've never had a fulltime job, and I've never had a girlfriend. I'm physically disabled, and both the job market and dating make me really anxious. I worry that I'll fail because I'm so anxious, and that's of course a neverending loop of self-destruction. I know that I try my best to put on a happy face, and work through my fears. But I think people can tell that I don't really believe in myself. I don't really feel motivated to make something of my life. I just fear disappointing people and having all my self-hate confirmed. I hesitate before calling my friends because I'm afraid I'm too needy. I feel like a creep whenever I find a woman attractive. I worry that I'm just too clingy and sad to treat a woman like she deserves to be treated. I know I'd burn myself out if I approach women with that attitude. I feel like any job I could apply to is either inherently immoral or that someone else needs or deserves it more. Every day is a struggle to keep trying and applying. I feel like I'm still destroying myself slowly and I'm just so lonely most of the time. I feel exhausted after talking to people and I just want so badly for people to love me. And I realize that''ll only come naturally when I love myself. And that's hard. If you've read all the way to the end, I'm just happy you'd let me vent. I feel a little bit better now. If you recognize the feeling, you're not alone and I know you're more loveable than you think.
Tim de Visser I relate to you in a lot of ways even though I don’t have a life altering disability. I don’t think I have anything practical to say because I’m still trying to figure it out but I wanted to assure you that you’re not alone.
I read to the end. It sounds to me like you could use a group of kind people who value others' inherent value and worth (including yours) in your life. I feel weird saying this, because I've always been annoyed with evangelicals pushing religion on me, but I found some very wonderful people at my local Unitarian Universalist church. It's not a typical group. If you want to learn more, look for the 7 principles at uua.org. If that doesn't seem right to you, I imagine finding a non-profit and volunteering a little time each week would do you well. You sound like a kind-hearted person who needs to see other kind-hearted people in action. In either of these places, I think you can find what you are looking for.
healingfear speaking as a mainline Protestant, there are a lot of good people in that faith bloc as well. The United church of Christ and the episcopal church are known for being progressive and there are certainly progressive wings of the mainline presbyterians and Lutherans
I really relate to the job thing and I'd recommend looking into careers that you'd find interesting that don't necessitate working for a big evil company™. In the meantime, volunteering could give you a bit of confidence back and you're usually doing something good for your community too. Are you in any kind of therapy or anything like that? I'm diagnosed with a personality disorder and I was a lot like that. You sound like you're suffering from depression (sorry if I'm stating the obvious here) and it could do you some good working on your issues. I think trying to "love yourself" when you're still full of self loathing is a gargantuan task, it's much easier to first try to accept yourself instead, shortcomings included.
@@SleepingDragon3 it's wonderful to get in on a church event like marching & service projects on Martin Luther King Day. We joined up with Methodists for it last year. We do a lot of partnering with Protestant churches and secular non-profits in the area, as well. UUs are weird in that we have people of many different faiths in our congregations and atheists, too!
As a girl feminist, this is a message from heaven. I've been having these exact thoughts and trying to critically question my own political ideals especially regarding feminism, but i could never quite pinpoint the "man" issue... The systemic shit men do go through and its consequences. Going through the comment section and seeing boys discuss was beautiful.
My onpy problem with feminism is that it makes everything about women , like when I bring the draft thing and the patriarchal man hating idea that men need to go for war and men need to do something in order to be valued as human beings , I always get "Its because misogny", which switch the attention to women ,and its also not true , it has a part of it but it is not the primary reason, the main reason is that men are seen under the patriarchal system as property to use in wars and mines and shit like that .
@@soy_boy69 Cause Feminism is about women genius. Women have been historically oppressed by men for centuries. Not too long ago women were second class citizens. The point of feminism is to uplift women to achieve the same rights opportunities and social standing as men in order to achieve Equality.
@@soy_boy69 I think you're conflating discussions about patriarchy and feminism with one another. Which- yeah, terminology is pedantic and boring, so I get how these two might seem the same sometimes. Quick summary: Feminism is a movement about, as the person above (?) me put it: uplifting women in hopes of achieving equity among genders, as women have been historically seen as "less then" by society. That's why all the talk about feminism revolves almost solely around us-we're building up, not tearing down. Now, what you were probably picturing during your argument is JUST patriarchy, not feminism-the system by which the opression of women became possible. Think of it as a machine, or a computer code but the only result is pain for all involved, men, women, everyone in between and off the sides. Patriarchy enforces a set of expectations for each gender, which, in case of men, often times results in repression and isolation, a lack of connection as Natalie described. To women, it revolves around objectification, being seen but not heard-misogyny stems from that, which is why feminists use that word almost non-stop. When we are talking about patriarchy, it's absolutely imperative we discuss both sides of the issue, as it's not just women getting hurt by these standarts. Feminism opposes patriarchy under a very specific lenses-talking about women's opression. Now, that doesn't mean, say, a "mennism" would be less valid in also being opposed to patriarchy. The system might arguably benefit men (notwithstanding the narrowing of their valor solely to labor, as you exemplified using mines and war) after all, but is it really worth the suffering? That was what Natalie proposed at the end of the video, by the way. To create a men's movement that opposes patriarchy instead of opposing feminism.
@@elfodelputoinfierno Problem is, a lot of women don't believe men need a men's movement, and I think the reason for that stems from feminism being exclusively about women and excluding men from the conversation. I understand that feminism is about empowering women, and I understand that a lot of men are toxic and don't contribute anything to the conversation but the result of that are women who think men just don't care about anything. There are a lot of really bad ideas about men circulating in the feminist circles, which creates even bigger divide between men and women. It created a situation where men are scared to open up and say anything because god forbid you say something wrong about any woman. To be clear, I am not saying all women are like this, but majority of the die hard feminists are. I believe feminism is needed, that there are a lot of issues that women are still struggling with that need to highlighted to my fellow men. There are a lot of women who now separated themselves from feminist movements, because they've decided themselves that these spaces can create a toxic, rather than empowering, environment. It's not hard to see that something is wrong because we are not heading in the right direction here, things are getting more confusing for both sexes and if we are not careful we might end up completely ruining what we have already achieved.
i can vouch for the fact that when i transitoned - before, when i presented “female” , i felt like eyes were on me literally all the time and was constantly wary of being talked to, especially by cis men. people noticed me, helped me, etc. after transitoning and presenting and “passing” as male, ive become literally invisible. people dont even look at me. it was both a relief but also pretty damn isolating too. there was a level of vulnerability i could exercise as a female presenting person that was completely erased once i transitioned. it was quite interesting to notice, and odd to get used to because i had to suddenly be acutely aware of the fact that theres levels of vulnerability that arent “appropriate “ for men to show. lol. there’s credence to this theory i think.
@@KM-eb5yo because usually it’s men that have power over women In fact that is how it is in society Most of the time in small ways but there is a gap nonetheless
@@oimate6357 women have power over men cuz society protects women and men tend to protect women more than other men. Unless you're a bitter incel or a fuckboy but they're not seen positively by society.
"We all know the archetype. He has trouble relating to women, he has no strong friendship group, he's not excited about any long-term goals, and he fills the void with videogames and porn." This... is too accurate. It really makes me think about what I might believe now if I had listened to different political commentators in my teens. It really makes me think about how I need to change too. Also, the elevator thing is 100% how a lot of guys feel when alone with random women. I've made a habit of crossing the street myself when it's not busy and there's a lady walking towards me. It's like a preemptive sign of non-aggression, like I have to prove I'm not a shitbag by default.
I think the fact that I opened up in high school and developed strong friendship groups is what ultimately saved me from this. That, and when I got really into atheism it pushed me left and my Jewish heritage made me disgusted by anything Nazi-related, so I was always disgusted by those movements by default. But yeah, becoming more willing to interact with people made it easier to relate to women and now probably more than half my friends are women. I just shudder to think where I'd be if I never found myself socially, because I've seen people lose themselves when they can't find a way to fit in.
I just paused the video at that point and went "Hey, how are you?" I spent a chunk of my 20s hanging out on 4chan, laughing at racist memes, convincing myself it was "dark humour" and not "racist humour". Thinking I was smart because I questioned 9/11 and the climate and blah blah. I'd never considered myself racist, even at a young age I never understood a hatred or mistrust of black people. But I imagine given time I might have gone down that road. I don't know what happened exactly...might have been Twitter, honestly. But I started giving more of a damn about people in terms of groups. Hearing experiences. Certainly in the last 3 or 4 years I've gone quite left leaning and I cringe at the person I was in my 20s. The stupid things I used to think. And I've done as you say, too. On a street at night, if it's not possible to cross the road I've maintained a distance that allows her to see my shadow behind her (so she can see I'm not making a move), but still far enough that I can't do anything. I try to stay in her line of sight if possible. I make it clear I'm not looking at her and I keep my hands visible. I don't like the idea a person is afraid of me simply because I'm a man, but I also know that men can be the worst...and she doesn't know me from a hole in the ground.
I am not in any irl friend groups but I have social anxiety and was homeschooled when I was a kid so that might be why. I just hope that Im not bad for not finding irl friends
honestly, i feel like trans people are such an untapped source of perspective on how men and women are treated in society. as a trans guy who didn't transition until my 20's and who passes well now, i've learned so much that i never heard of or thought of before transitioning. one of the biggest struggles i have in life now is that before i transitioned, i was a quiet and socially awkward girl who liked videogames. people thought i was timid but sweet and would approach me or want to work together. now, as a quiet and socially awkward guy who likes videogames, i actually make people uncomfortable. i feel like i'm overly polite and never say or do anything remotely violent, but i actually had someone report me because they saw me frustrated (bad day, was just frowning and marching home minding my own business) and thought i was going to harm myself or others. and in this day and age with everything going on, i can't even blame them. it also seems like girls are much more afraid to be alone with me (i'm gay, so any perceived 'nice guy' behavior is not intended). that being said, there are also things that got way easier after transitioning. people don't doubt my understanding of stem subjects and i can walk home alone at night without worrying nearly as much. as much as male activists tend to be awful and just a reaction to shut down feminists, i do think that it's a subject that should be talked about rather than shut down instantly.
You’re probably right, one thing you’ve said has me super intrigued though. I myself am a white male, and would relate to the whole quiet socially awkward guy that likes video games thing, whenever I step out of the house and the light is dim to dark, or in unfamiliar lit places I am absolutely shitting myself. That’s horrible and if it was genuinely worse being a woman to what you experience know I’d like to know more (because I can’t even comprehend what kind of hell that must have been). Would you mind expanding on your experiences relating to this before and after transition?
The media has spent a lot of space vilifying quiet gamers, so it isn't weird people get concerned. It's not right, but the media love sensationalism. Even among the recent attacks they tried to pin it on video games IIRC. I am glad so many people today are into gaming and know to dismiss these ridiculous claims.
@SheGotTerryDavisEyes 82 damn babe are you a contortionist? Because that stretch is impressive! The guy was only saying that his experience was valuable because people devalue his experience, and that we, because it's fair to say you're also cis, have a worse understanding of gender than someone who's experienced being seen as multiple, and that seems pretty fair to me, I suspect you have a better understanding of being a raving loon than him because he lacks that experience.
Omg, you’ve literally nailed so many points I’ve struggled with. I’ve been a borderline “redpiller” but I always rejected the venom in the typical narrative. The irony that a woman, trans too boot, has enlightened me, hasn’t escaped me lol
Tell me more about your experiences and/or beliefs, sir/miss. What made you a borderline "redpiller" and what kept you from swallowing it? Talking with someone can help ease your stresses.
Except it's also kind of a sleepover, starting off as light foreplay at first, but then sobering up at about the same time and realizing it's better right now if you just talk instead of f**k. But you still kinda want to try the mouthfeel.
Just my two cents, but I think Tolkien's heroes are a decent example of positive masculine heroes, like how Frodo and Sam can have a deep and intimate friendship and emotionally support one another, and even if they need to resort to violence at times they are also able to show compassion towards their enemies, plus the last chapters in LOTR are basically entirely about how all the different heroes settle down and start rebuilding Middle Earth. I love Peter Jackson's movies, but I am a bit disappointed that they didn't show Aragon being a skilled and empathetic healer like in the books. I think fiction could use more male heroes portrayed as good healers and nurturers.
It's very telling that as a young man a lot of other young guys would tell me Frodo and Sam's friendship "creeped them out", it was too intimate for them, too "gay" compared to modern male gender norms that it made them uncomfortable. (Obviously not all men felt this way, but some certainly remarked that it did).
Exactly ! I don't agree that the model of man as a warrior is unwanted and not needed in our society. Quite on the contrary. We need warriors now more than ever. The idea is that you can be a warrior and be emotionally connected, compassionate and have intimate friendships in the same time.
There's a video floating around youtube about how Newt Scamander (from Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them) could be a good candidate. He does present some of the same qualities as Aragorn does, empathy, healing, caregiving, and such - but, importantly, he is humble and has no "great destiny". He just loves animals and wants to help. The video put very well into words how I felt about the character but hadn't consciously formulated. It's on the Pop Culture Detective channel, check it out.
I just watched 3rd season of 13 reasons why and I really liked how they show friendship there. Especially between Justin and Clay - from being indifferent to each other to being brothers. Even though I don't think that friendship is built on the right reasons, it's still showed as really careing relationship.
@@evehelbarde756 ".. that you can be a warrior and be emotionally connected, compassionate and have intimate friendships in the same time." oh is that all? so... emotionally connected and empathetic so we can feel every wound we cause ... and still cause them. what could go wrong?
I had a discussion with my younger cousin recently that reminded me a lot for this video, about how there's no clear guide for young men to express their masculinity. Because of that, they just become resentful of having to repress all of their impulses. This REALLY made me worried for him.
@@dragonbeardableplease explain because the traditional model of living and dying for your country isn’t so appealing anymore. One, because i’m not interested in dying for a war i don’t believe in, and two, because everyone fucking hates the military now.
The performative innocence is real. I'm a petite 5'1 black girl and still feel like I need to do this in the presence of old white ladies who think I'm going to rob them. Even though like i've never been in a fight and cry in arguments but ok.
Sorry about your experience. Don't know if this helps, two things to consider are first, the old white ladies have decades of indoctrination from our culture telling them that you are probably not safe, second is that the more physically vulnerable a person is, the more they have to fear, and the more fear they feel. When just about anyone can knock them down and hurt them badly without much effort, they probably are afraid ALL THE TIME. It's not right, but it's how things are. Any suggestions on how to change this will be gratefully accepted.
@@shawnwales696While that seems reasonable, I highly doubt that's the case when it comes to racist old white women. There's no suggestions I could give that would fix or change someone's prejudice. Thank you for your concern though. 🌸
I feel this as a 5'3 black girl (? Up for debate atm tbh but I'm perceived as such so w/e) and I'm always anxious about coming off as too aggressive or whatever bc anything less than compliance and nonchalance makes me a "threat." It's so frustrating and suffocating
I feel like trans folks have a very valuable perspective on men/women's rights. Afabs suffer through "girlhood" and manhood, Amabs suffer through "boyhood" and womanhood.
I'm ftm. Still pretty early in transition, 7 months on T. But I've already noticed a ton of changes. The most interesting one to me is how the T changed me mentally. Like now I literally can't cry. Tears won't come out. Made me change some of my opinions on how men show emotion and stuff like that. People also treat me way different on social media (because that's the only place I pass)
I miss my female privileges sometimes. Examples: I can’t be within any distance of a child without anyone freaking out. Even if I have no idea a kid is near me, (like in an aisle at a store) people think I’m up to something. I miss people not scrutinizing my height. I miss women not immediately assuming I’m hitting on them just because I breathed in their general direction (I’m not even attracted to women). I miss when I wasn’t expected to do dangerous things to prove myself. I miss women not practically demanding I throw myself into danger to protect them. I know a lot of trans guys push the narrative that “people listen to what I have to say now”, but it’s not true for me. I’m ignored more than ever. People are far ruder to me. The list goes on. It really sucks being a man. It’s painfully depressing. (In my experience)
@@BlackSheepNara I don't think people in the general population assume I'm a guy most days. It's pretty rare they do although it does happen more and more frequently. I've heard similar stuff though.
@@BlackSheepNara it does make me wonder, when people push the "people listen now" stuff, is that maybe because maybe now they are comfortable in their gender identity and are now perceiving situations differently? I've spent years assuming a lot of the way I'm treated is because I present as girl. Then maybe a few years into this I just realize I'm sort of a shy reserved person who is kind of asking to be ignored because I lack confidence and I just accept it. I hope that makes some sort of sense.
My boyfriend has told me that he doesn't like the fact that he's assumed to be dangerous, even though he completely understands why women cross the road at night. This video also reminded me of another conversation I had with him. I'm mixed race and he's white. We went to a poetry night on Freedom Day (we're South African) and most poems recited were about whites oppressing POCs. A couple days later he told me he sometimes feels hated amongst his non-white peers. Racism isn't over and we still face systemic issues caused by apartheid which only ended very recently, so of course there are a lot of youth who are still hurt by ongoing issues. But I understand where he was coming from. I once told him that when we first started going out, I had to make sure that he wasn't secretly a racist who fetishized mixed women before I got too attached to him. He was a bit surprised, but he understood my reasoning, so he isn't a person who disregards these difficult experiences. I don't think it's wrong to want people your own age to give you the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming that you are oppressive or complacent in their continued oppression. He kept telling me that he wished there was some way to prove that he wasn’t like the apartheid generation, but unfortunately that just isn't possible especially when there is still reason for us to distrust white people. Anyway, great video. I hope that we can move into an era in which men feel more heard and in which all genders understand that our issues can be fought together.
Your poor white BF, assuming to be a predator in an apartheid state. His trauma must be immense. I'm sure he has a lot of trauma from being white. Let's talk about him. Let's focus a whole conversation around his trauma about being part of an oppressive class. I also understand where he's coming from. I'm just telling him to get a grip.
I'm female and I strongly agree that female social groups are way more supporting. I have had completely male and completely female circles of friends before and the difference is astounding. Guys usually just insult each other jokingly and even when they are in emotional trouble, they don't really know how to handle it with something else than humor. One of MY BOIS literally had to care for his young siblings by himself because his mother was depressed and almost never home. When I offered emotional support by saying he could talk to me about his anxieties, I was laughed at because guys are STRONG and don't talk about their feelings. On the other hand, female groups care for each other. They talk about their feelings and compliment the shit out of each other. Sure it's only my personal observation but I've noticed the same online as well. Men get lonely and depressed because they are never taught to open up about their struggles, people expect them to be strong. And when they simply aren't, they feel like failures. Toxic masculinity raises school shooters and incels and I hope future parents and teachers will do something about it.
@@gone5815 ... didn't she say she was female? I mean it makes no senseto call a female a 'beta fag', does it? (I'm not a native English speaker, so maybe I do not know about smth)
Please understand that this is not a criticism, just an observation. My experience is that men do not respond enthusiastically to offers to listen, but often respond well to offers of help. For women, these two things are almost identical and an offer to listen is implicitly an invitation to ask for help. For the men I know, they definitely are not the same thing. An offer to listen seems like an empty gesture, an invitation to get emotional, which they may not want to do. An offer of help (eg. babysitting, grocery shopping) while they may still reject it, has more meaning and impact. I know it seems like splitting hairs, but I have noticed it's a surer way to avoid their defenses.
As a guy, I feel very lucky to have the group of guy friends I have. Years ago our predominant form of interactions were just partying(drinking), video games, and arguing. We were hyper competitive in a really mean spirited way with each other and would often gang up on each other. We have all done allot of self work over the last few years. It was a slow process of change but the results have been profound. We now try to openly talk through all of our feelings with each other, if two people get into a disagreement others help moderate to get them to open up about the deep underlying misunderstanding or resentment at play. We check in on each other over the phone. We call each other just to chat. We let each other know how someone is doing if they are having a hard time. For example, if someone goes through a break up we all coordinate giving them a call to check in and let them vent. We let talk about our fears and insecurities, we make space for anyone to cry if they need to. Last time when we all got together, after a few games of beer pong, we tried an exercise of sitting in a circle and going around being honest with each other and emotionally vulnerable about what we feel about each other, what we hope each other will work on, and what our friendships mean to us. We have gotten allot more comfortable with physical contact and affection: hugs (real hugs not chest bumps), hand squeezes ect... We do mini interventions with each other if we think that one of us was being aggressive or toxic especially towards women. It has immensely improved the health and quality of all of our dating lives with women I should add. There was no magic key to this evolution. It was just a slow process of people getting more comfortable being emotionally vulnerable with each other, telling each their how much we cared about our friendships and how much we wanted the best for each other, encouraging each other to be better especially in unlearning bad patterns with regard to how we approached women. Oh, and we did several group phycedelic trips in the woods! I think that really helped get the ball rolling on our emotional evolution. I think a positive masculinity that works for some men still includes a celebration of how much you can lift, how much you can drink, how good you are at video games, and positive developments in your dating life; but without being aggressive, without being so competitive, wishing well on other people, being emotionally vulnerable, being emotionally supportive, relating to women as equals with their own autonomy, and trying to help in whatever way you can to intervene against men who show signs of trying to assert power over women.
I'm a straight guy who can be pretty feminine, and this was my experience. I grew up and continue to live in the south where gender roles can be pretty strong. I didn't get along with almost anyone because I didn't like hunting and fishing or wresting and whatnot. I didn't have any real friends that I really enjoyed being around until I was in high school. I met some people at school and some people online. all of my friends were men and I was pretty awkward around women so I only had some acquaintances in that department. I was pretty depressed at the time due to a lot of childhood issues but I never sought help and relied on my own destructive coping mechanisms to get by. I didn't want a therapist because I was under the belief that I was ok and didn't want to risk getting a bad therapist and being weak for needing meds or therapy. Growing up every time i was not alone felt like a Pokémon encounter. I was always picking and choosing what to say and do to not appear feminine and thus not weak. It felt like I wasn't allowed to be myself and like there wasn't a world where I could be. Even among friends, most conversation was just bsing and some times with certain people there would be a kind of bullying as someone tried to establish a higher rank in the pecking order. my friends at school mainly bsed, but those I met online had this weird mix. this is how things were for a long time until something strange happened. one night me and my closest online friends stayed up all night and talked about our past traumas. It was a moment of bonding I had never experienced before. It was such a legendary occasion that we hence forth referred to it as "that night". It sounds general but everyone knew what it meant. these things never happened among my school friends but as time went on these "nights" occurred every once in a while even as the friend group changed and evolved. I realized that all of my friends were sad whether they said it or were too afraid to admit it. All of us were sad, depressed, and just lost. I survived off of these "nights" alone until I had one of these nights with a newer member of the group. She had more in common with me than any of the friends I had ever met and for once I was comfortable sharing everything. I had never gone in so much depth and revealed as much as I had that night and neither had she. we started dating shortly after and we have been together for eight months. I would have never realized I was as feminine as I am of it weren't for her making me feel so comfortable with myself even if I feel like I still have to hide it Infront of most people still. For a man to confide in another man of all that had happened takes an extreme amount of trust. As a guy, I would occasionally over hear women complain about small insignificant things, gush about their life stories in public, and they could even cry and people would feel sorry for them. All of this was down right unimaginable. as a guy you couldn't complain. you had to man up and shut up, and crying was seen as weak and childish. when I was in high school it felt like the slightest tear could be the end of your entire existence and manhood. the amount of things that women will get assistance with is astronomical compared to men. if some girl ran off with her boyfriend and came home crying sometime later she would be welcomed with open arms. if a boy did this he would be slapped for being an idiot and in some cases would not be allowed back home. If you ever see men talking about women being weak, one of the things above is probably the reason. However, even if we don't always like to admit it, guys have feelings too but most of us feel uncomfortable sharing them. There are plenty of men out there who feel like they just can't be themselves or express their feelings.
As trans girl I want to tell you that I and a lot of girls are tired of this toxic masculinity model that many boys desperately try to fit in. I love feminine boys, you guys are so much opened, funny and just feel more real. You are so cute when you are just being real selves and not trying to pretend to be machos society expects you to be. I know that it's easy to be said, but I kinda understand your struggles... You know, I used to be treated like boy too and I know that society treats boys who are more feminine like shit, especially older people and other guys are the most cruel. But what I have noticed is that most of those men who force you into this macho persona, aren't living a happy lifes themselves and their sense of masculinity is very fragile. They are mostly so anxious and have so many insecurities that they perceive as simple thing as showing emotions or having pink element in their wardrobe as threat to their entire manhood and that's why they project it on others judging them harshly. But you know what is it sign of? Cowardice, something that is pretty much opposite to masculinity. If bravery is one of measures of masculinity I would say that boys who appear more feminine - talk about their feelings despite social stigma, show emotions, wear what they feel comfortable with and not what looks manly, are much braver than all those so called "alpha males" who just stick to status quo. I feel bad for you boys. But I will share a secret with you, I and many of my friends would rather go on a date with a catboy who crossdresses than with muscular 100% testosterone Alpha Male
the problem with catcalling is that it usually starts when we are girls. The way you react to male attention as an adult woman is very different to get that attention when you are 11 years old.
Me being catcalled for the first time at 15 for wearing a skirt by a man who looks 25 with a full beard. Seeing my 16 year old friend have her skimpy pyjama shorts be commented on by her dad's 40 year old friend. It goes on. Too young ☹️
Catcalling and related stuff is definitely more complicated than a lot of people make it out to be. I'm a dude, but there's definitely a pretty clear difference in my head between a random COVID nurse saying the skin on my shoulder is tight (?) and that must mean I work out, vs four random girls halting whatever they were doing before to fake-flirt with my fourteen-year-old self while I'm walking to a friend's house with a backpack full of D&D sourcebooks. And of course that difference is definitely highlighted by the time I told that second story in a comment on a blog post about catcalling and the first response was some chucklefuck asking "were they hot".
Totally! My first time getting catcalled I was in middle school walking down town. He was a middle aged man, and there were several adult bystanders. It freaked me out so much. I was all alone and I felt like I had a target on my back. I kept looking over my shoulder to make sure he wasn't following me. As an adult, I can't help but speculate about his motivations. It was technically a "compliment", but I have a hard time believing the goal was to make me feel good about myself. On the contrary, his goal was to send a message, and I heard it loud and clear: That my body wasn't mine; it was his to comment on and to pick apart at will. He sadistically got off on watching me as that powerlessness and fear sunk in. A lot of allies make the mistake of thinking that listening and empathizing in private is the best way to show support. Don't get me wrong; that is very meaningful, but on that day, it would've meant the world to know that the bystanders had my back, and that I wasn't alone; that I was safe. But they all kept it moving, and so did he. I've made this mistake as a white person, but I won't make it again.
God, yes, I've been thinking about this exact same stuff a lot lately, but it's impossible to bring it up because people immediately jump to the conclusion that you're a woman-hating incel - which is ironic, because jumping to the conclusion that someone's a man-hating feminazi whenever someone brings up anything remotely feminist is literally exactly what the woman-hating incels do. Like, maybe we shouldn't call these incels "basement-dwelling virgin" as an insult, because even if those specific people deserve to be ridiculed, that insult normalizes the idea that a man's worth is determined by how extroverted and sexually active he is. Which is, you know, toxic masculinity? The thing we're against? But saying that immediately results in, "Why are you defending the harassment of women??" I was thinking about trying my hand at a video on the subject, but she did a better job than I possibly could have.
@@KevinCow Exactly, I've been in the MRA for about 4 years and then I left the online spaces because, even if my community wasn't right-wing, I really couldn't stand the centrism and the unhelpful anti-feminism. Now I still have lots of problems though, what we need to do is try to establish a new men's liberation movement like the one in the 60's
@@KevinCow been yelling at certain subgroups of femminsm since at least 2016 over this. I am a male femminst myself, but God does my blood boil at those "yesallmen" posts. Like fuck you, what am I supposed to do? Stop existing or something?
Regarding women not liking when men open doors for them: I remember when I was little and my Dad told me that it is polite to open doors for people. So that’s what I did. I even held doors open for men and when he noticed, he told me that I should only open doors for women. I asked him why, and he didn’t really have an answer. Ever since then, I’ve been holding doors for everyone. Sometimes I’m standing there holding the door for a solid minute or two. Anytime a woman comes up to me and complains that I hold the door for them, I literally look them in the eye and say, “calm down, I do this for everyone. You’re not special”. I kind of get why it can get annoying to have the door held for you, but at the same time, be happy someone is holding a door open for you. It’s a polite gesture and shouldn’t be looked at too deeply in my opinion
I'm a man and I'd prefer someone holding a door for me than slamming it in my face. It's just rude. Sometimes you have your hands full and it's awkward to open the door with your feet / shoulder so it's just basic kindness at that point. Don't let edgy people allergic to kindness dissuade you from being a good person, you are appreciated.
I appreciate your post. Unfortunately, it doesn't always come from somewhere good. I'm a woman and I also open the door for everyone, and some men get quite offended that a woman is opening the door for them! One man also got angry at me that I paid the bill for both of us and he stopped speaking to me. As if only 'poor little weak women' should be taken care of.
@@jazmorgann Years of social expectations are hard to counter, in the end it all comes down to choice, whether to let these reactions get to us and adapt in order to fit in, or do what feels right regardless of those insecure reactions. Sadly, receiving kindness from women for a lot of men is shameful because they think they should appear (key word) strong and self-sufficient 24/7, and that they should take on women's burdens as well. I admit even despite being aware of social stigma, sometimes it feels uncomfortable to be on the receiving end of accommodation, there are a lot of "I'm supposed to" thoughts. Even if nobody is judging you, you sort of judge yourself out of habit, but lashing out on the other person is just rude because it's not their fault.
Holding doors open can be very nice, but often just pressures people into doing this little sprint so the one holding the door doesn't have to hold the door for too long. Its complicated
you know those super gay Germanic tribes :p lol that being said, homosexuality wasnt as frowned upon in a lot of major civilizations in our history. the reason being, they didnt think women were their equals. so, theyd have purely sexual relationships with women, but have emotional and intellectual relationships with men (which often led to sexual encounters)..
When I was learning Japanese, one detail that initially shocked me was that men are often described as "carnivores" or "herbivores" (most often by women, interestingly) in much the same way we might use "alpha" and "beta" in English. They also have a special term for a man that escorts a woman home at night ostensibly to keep her safe, but really in the hopes of pressuring her into something: okuriookami, literally "escort wolf". The "male implies threatening" thing really is depressingly omnipresent, and I wish I had any idea how to change that beyond "tell the shitty men to stop being shitty".
If the male is the wolf then the woman must be the sheep, right? The poor dumb frightened sheep. How about you tell these dumb frightened sheep/women to stop being such pussies and learn to not be a victim all the time? Some guy walking a girl he likes home in the probably forlorn hope that she will give him a kiss or invite him in for coffee does not equate to any type of threatening behaviour unless you are a total effing lunatic whackjob.
WTF are you talking about? Are you confused that other languages have words for specific behavior? You know. Like "alpha"? Yes, it's a different language. So the word is different.
It's really important that we address the final point in this video. I have been so angry for years that all of the energy behind changing men's role in society for the better was co-opted by shitlords. Where's my movement using Mr. Rogers (Fred or Steve, both are relevant) as our role-model? I'm just sayin'.
Just yesterday, I was thinking there are basically two role models at opposite ends of a spectrum (or maybe at right angles from one another, not sure) for men: Fred Rogers and James Bond. If you strip all the 1950s-era value cruft off Bond, but keep the strength, purpose, competence, and replace the moral compass with Fred Rogers'...you kinda get Steve Rogers. It's not perfect, but, I think it sorta works. But yes. I'd be happy to build a movement around Fred Rogers as a positive male role model.
Nick Offerman and Terry Crews are generally good examples too. They're not flawless (being human and all), but they're willing to admit when they're wrong. And that's just a really important adult trait to have regardless of gender, but especially for groups like men who are negotiating changing social roles.
"I integrated into female social groups, and I found that they provide a kind of communal support and overt affection that male social groups generally just don't." As a dude who cried within the last month because I didn't feel like I had anyone I could share my feelings with, yepppppppp.
hey yuki, you deserve that kind of friendship. it's scary as hell being emotionally vulnerable and knowing you might be rejected. i hope your friends are strong enough to lift you up, and i hope you can do the same for them.
Yep, most of my friends are girls as I guess it’s just a much “friendlier” sort of dynamic. I’m a gay guy and I just have this weird fear of having close male friends as there’s always this strange societal barrier stopping us from being close friends, either from us being two guys or me being gay somehow having to do with it. Whereas with girls there’s just so much less pressure to put up arbitrary boundaries with that sort of stuff I guess? Just feels like we’re made to feel unnatural to have an emotionally invested friendship with other guys, I hope that changes soon, I’ve lost some great friends from that sort of stigma.
I hear you man, you're not alone in feeling that way. I think most guys feel that way to some extent, but none of us feel like we can bring it up. It sucks.
Another thing men should be taught is that they are valid and amazing as individuals. We shouldn't judge the value of men on whether or not they are in a relationship. They're just as valuable being single. We need to not tie mens worth to relationships or sex
That's sorta what capitalism was meant to do. Now that capitalism is exclusive and gated, the common men have no way of defining worth outside of romance.
As a woman who has experienced the impact of such beliefs on guy friends and boyfriends later, I totally agree with that. Your experience and value as a human being should stop being literally weighted upon the number of your sexual/romantic partners
I will confess something: I used to be a guy who was always shouting “I have it worse because I’m a man!” I won’t go into too much detail, all I’ll say is now, I’m a lot more happy and confident with myself, so I’m able to look at the world more rationally. Also, most of my friends, acquaintances and mutuals are either women, and/or biologically female. So I’ve learned so many things from them, and the experiences they’ve shared with me (many of which are heartbreaking) What I do wanna say, though, I was never “like most guys.” I never was into sports, I preferred to talk about my feelings (and was rarely taken seriously), and I’m on the asexual spectrum, so I never fit into the the ol’ “men are constantly thinking about sex!!! Sex sex sex!!!” Which made me feel highly emasculated. Also… another thing: I got into an abusive relationship, and that set me back so far in my life. I tried to move on in a healthy way, but alas, most of my “friends” just made fun of me and told me to “stop whining” and “just move on.” But… I couldn’t. I needed validation (but didn’t get any for many years). Also, even my “friends” who were women would constantly make fun of me for being socially awkward around women, for not being able to get dates, for “letting” my ex abuse me, etc. so… for years, I was stuck in a state of constant trauma By no means am I using this to say “so yeah I had it worse!” No, not at all! I’m also not gonna absolve myself of responsibility for any sexist attitudes I previously held. But I will say, what helped me become a better person was not “magically letting it go and accepting it wasn’t about me,” no, what helped was finding women who validated me and allowed me to feel safe describing my experience…which in turn made it easier for me to wanna listen to their experiences and do what I could to help them
Also… I do wanna add, many times I’ve been accused of being an “incel” just because I’m…going through a rough time…? Like… telling me I’m a “violent extremist” because I… am feeling sad and lonely…? That’s… yeah, damaging
@Camarade Toff thanks a bunch; yeah, like sure, I don’t wanna validate men just saying horrible things, but like… when a man is at his lowest point, he shouldn’t just be kicked when he’s down. If he’s trying to talk about his feelings, and something comes out the wrong way…he should be allowed to correct that mistake and STILL be validated for his trauma
“You’re oppressed because of your class, not your gender, so just join the revolution, overthrow the bourgeoise, meow meow” absolutely killed me, especially when followed by “Now I can see a couple of problems with that”
While I know that (with the exception of some orthodox marxists) the exclusive focus on class differences as the main cause of societal tensions has been generally rejected (and even ridiculed), I've yet to hear a good reason as to - why?
I believe it was a culture Kings podcast episode where one of the hosts, a black man, talked about how a former ex of his, a white woman, would argue more with him in public than in private. Because, in those situations, he'd be more likely to concede points because the sight of a white woman getting upset and angry with a black man can turn that environment against the man off the bat. If he got loud or mad at her, no matter what she said or did, people would see her as the victim, and him as dangerous. It's fucked up that someone would know that, and do that, using public hostility towards men (and black men especially) to win an argument you'd use, but it's an environment that sees women as victims and men as dangerous that allows such a manipulator to succeed at all.
@Shep VanDelay Placing blame on him isn't really helpful though. Because it's normal to be angry and loud in some situations. I don't think the restraint you suggest solves any problems but covers up the underlying issue here.
I'd argue that this also works with white men. A man raising his voice against a woman in public will always be perceived that way. But the fact that he connected that reaction with the color of his skin is definitely a bad sign...
@@AddBowIfGirl I have experience with the kind of situation he was talking about, dealing with an actual narcissist - having abuse turned around on you is seriously psychologically damaging
if i was alone in an elevator with a dude and he suddenly started whistling row row row your boat, i would freak the f out and assume this was the prelude to a murder scene.
@@Cruelty-Torture the thing is, you really can't do much but understand us and indeed, establish something like a movement alongside feminism to -well- help the men. all we ask is to not get assaulted and be respected, and since many of us had horrible experiences, you can't expect us to trust a person at face value. we need to change the system hand in hand. as always, there's no easy magic trick answer. feminism will only fully work when men start to see harassment as their problem too
@@jacycorn aye, that be fair enough, in all honesty, if I found myself in that situation ( and I have) I just leave the elevator n take the stairs. As I'd not want to contribute to someones anxiety. But, if there was a way to set someone at ease. Id be happy to learn/ do rather than avoid people if could.
@@Cruelty-Torture nothing will calm anxiety of someone, we just have too "wait and see" or leave in that case; you, as nothing specific to do than being respectful...
never expected a trans women to point out a legit problem i go through alot as a 6'3 stoic faced black man i do run into a lot of people who are scared of me not just white before i even talk and its often brought up '' bruh i thought you was a gangsta ass nigga when we met'' i even had a potential relationship fall flat do a lot of things but the fear that i could potentially do harm shaped it and at that time i felt like i was in a era where i just had to be a man about the situation in the end of it just end up crying like a bitch and becoming a hermit cause as much as i want to be a the urmuf MAN it really was i dont have many examples of good men in my life and if i didnt for long and i just wanted to prove i could be a decent lover to who i ever i feel in love with :D but still appreciate the food for thought
From my own experience I’m trying really hard to root out my own subconscious racism, I’m a white man and I got robbed and had my family threatened by two people of color, I have PTSD from that incident and I’m trying my best every day since then to root out the racist thought in my head that whenever I see a tall black guy in the street I tense up and get ready for an altercation. I know that that person isn’t a threat, but now that I have ptsd from that incident, my trauma flares up whenever I see a black man walking towards me. It’s very shitty of me to even think like that and I’m trying consciously to address it and change it. I can’t help it but it happens and the horrible part about it is that I know if it was a white person who did this to me I know that if I saw a white person in the street it wouldn’t affect me. I’m so sorry you have to go through this man it’s not your fault just thought I’d share my story with you. What happened to me isn’t black peoples fault and I shouldn’t make other black people feel like it’s their fault that I’m uncomfortable. it was two dickheads and even though I have a “reason” to be tense around black people it doesn’t mean that it’s ever right so again I’m so sorry this happens to you man I hope you have a good day
I don't care if I was 8 ft tall and 400 pounds of pure muscle. If I'm in an elevator with one other person and they start whistling row your fucking boat I'm going to break down in tears and pray for my life.
Or, you know, ask him about his kid? I'm "a head above a fridge and just as wide" guy. I definitely spent 5 years walking around with nursery rhymes stuck in my head. Then Frozen songs. And now Shrimp. Point is, people have all sorts of reasons for their weird shit.
It is such a hard pill to swallow, that if we, as men, want to have a better life, we need to build it for ourselves. The only solution you have, as a man, is indeed NOT to complain online by rageposting about how unfair life is and how terrible your issues are. And that's really difficult to accept! Because when you look at the crux of social reforms, the way minds are changing in our society, the way issues are being brought to light, a lot of it comes from various groups of people... rageposting about their issues! Constantly! And feeling justified for it! And so when you see men's issues being brought up in a similar fashion, and then being absolutely slammed, the obvious response is "so it's okay for them, but not for me?" It's frustrating, it's infuriating, it's unfair. But that's just the way it is. Today, if you post about how life is unfair as a man, you just feed a gigantic gender war machine that wants nothing more than to grind you into a fully radicalized member of society. Imo the same is true about any group really, but that's beside the point. Point is, your only choice is to find a way to be better. Inspire yourself, inspire your peers, and one day build a community that is strong enough to help other men, a community that will help guide your sons and their sons once you are gone. A system changes from the ground up, don't wait for some politician, or some make believe revolution to do the work for you. Build your own little slice of heaven, what society at large does is not your concern, you'll go mad trying to wrestle with the idiots of the entire world
Hey how are you?
Alive unfortunately
Better now!
Good!
mommy
ContraPoints Pretty good. How about you?
Hey wow, as a black man you almost made me cry to hear someone finally say it. I’m CONSTANTLY afraid that I’m making people uncomfortable, especially white women. I watched a young white girl leap out of an empty elevator in a PACKED Nike store in Chicago because she was scared of going up two floors alone with me. Not to mention her friends caught her like she jumped from danger and they were so glad she was safe again. It honestly just feels good to hear someone say it. I’m scared that you’re scared, I’m trying really hard to look as harmless as I can
That is so terribly sad. I hate that you have to go through that.
To the men who have commented that you hope I get r*ped and murdered and/or that nobody will mourn my death because I avoid eye contact on the street, thanks for proving my point. Women trying to stay safe aren’t ‘paranoid’, we’re experienced. And I know every damn one of you here so mad that I’m afraid of men would be the first to say ‘well she shouldn’t have walked alone’.
I'm really sorry, sir... I really hope everything will be better soon. I apparently am dangerous to myself since I'm a young woman and I'm friendly to all strangers regardless of how they look, usually about strictly "Hey, I like your shirt/hair/eyes/make-up/fandom." type thing, or dogs that walk on the street with their owners. I just love people and I don't want to mistrust people. I'm trying to stay kind and not let my anxiety sweep me away.
.Her fear is based in fear for her life. Yours is feeling uncomfortable...thats it!
@@daveruda ...oh.
My dad is someone who I grew up seeing as weak and passive, got older only to realise how secure he is in his masculinity despite the bs society told him about what it is to be a man. Now I wish I was more like him
Why did you view your dad as weak?
Never too late to start, my friend!
@@Alifeofadventures503 Really really DUMB shit, for example the fact he is a nurse? (A damn good one too) I used to resent that he wasn't like...a fucking miner or something idk. His super unaggressive nature and lack of adherence to macho stereotypes, like how he never had any problems being me and my sisters primary caregiver as kids while our mum furthered her career and studies, or allowing her to make important decisions etc. had me thinking to myself "wow, what a doormat of a man I will never be that weak" but then when I got into adulthood, I slowly figured out how unhappy my desire to live up to the standards of toxic masculinity had made me and how much time I had wasted since puberty tryna be what I used to think a real man was instead of just doing what I want without shame like he does, and it took me a while to understand that he never had a problem deferring to women because he never saw it as a threat since he is secure in himself, I feel like I've come a long way but I'm still not there, my masculinity is no longer as fragile as it felt 10 years ago, but I am still struggling with some insecurity surrounding it and I cringe so hard at the way I used to dismiss my dad for not being just a fist with hair lol
@@horsepuncher95 You don't have to be passive and a doormat to be a good man by any standards. Justifying his passiveness with "supporting mom this and that" and all is not even a valid point. What if he DID want something? To become better, or he had more ambitions, but he gave it all for you mom?.. Now the roles are reversed, as women before, gave all for their man, now it is supposed to be an "ideal" to do the opposite?
You've been fed with too much feminism for you own good my friend. You can be respectful to women, decent, educated, a gentleman, and treat your woman just right without being passive. If you haven't been able to do it it just means you got to know yourself better and work on yourself. Admitting into whatever "ideal" just because is not an option, becoming better is a lifelong job.
@@chiluditospro2 Not convinced he's saying that his dad IS a doormat, just that he used to see him that way for reasons he thinks in retrospect were childish. Whatever the case, it's a positive thing when someone matures enough to let go of long-held resentment - that's tough to do, and an impressive act of self-betterment if ever I've heard of one.
"No mom it's socio-political analysis I swear"
Lmao
Watching this on the bus like 😬
You think thats funny? try explain it to your wife.
@@SunnyDementia I love how idiots like yourself exist and talk in exactly the same way no matter where they come from in the world. The folks here justifying the occupation against Palestine use your _exact_ phrasing and 'argumentative tactics'. Talk about NPCs...
@@Deolrin It appears you have a problem with pointing out intellectually lazy (and false) ad hominems meant to dismiss an argument rather than confront it. Also, it sounds to me like you've naively detected the structure of a logical argument. Logic is akin to math insomuch as it is universal.
wouldn’t it be nice to see a men’s movement that modeled itself not in opposition to feminism but as a companion movement
Masculinist?
That would be more likely if so much feminism wasn't so hostile to men and full of bias and misinformation against them.
i always thought of it more like "why cant we have this"
r/menslib
Many MRAs do that, they just don't get traction. There was this Canadian dude named earl Silverman who was a victim of DV. He looked for shelters but could not find any, so he started his own. He was endlessly harassed for doing so (by "feminists" and other groups) to the point where he committed suicide.
I love how you don't post frequently. Every video feels like an event. I went to prepare food for this.
Nina Emily 😂👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿 Same here.
I make popcorn and make it a whole viewing party for one.
yeah i noticed that i would get when iDubbz would post a content cop
I just realized how true that is
yesss totaly. I want to celebrate those videos.
"The male gaze" and "the male gays" has to be my favorite double entendre ever for no particular reason.
I love how I didn't catch it until she said "male straights". I had to go back and double checked that I read the CCs correctly, since they said "male gaze"
@@dig8634 I love silent puns. Like sometimes if I walk in to a room when I'm hiding something I'll say, "Hey, guise."
@no, my name is tyler Double entendre: _noun_ , a word or phrase open to two interpretations, one of which is usually risqué or indecent.
guise: _noun_ , an external form, appearance, or manner of presentation, typically concealing the true nature of something.
Are either of those what you meant? If not you'll need to be more specific. 😶
@no, my name is tyler Happy to help..
I almost snorted my coffee out my nose with that one.
"I watch Contrapoints for the plot"
r/watchitfortheplot
Me: Well I mean yes the plot is quit engaging.
Me: You watch it for the plot? Where else have I heard that?
Me: O.o We're talking about porn aren't we?
@@MarceldeJong r/ihavereddit
@@samh9642 r/ihavereddit
@@mushchlowastaken r/ihaveihavereddit
honestly, men's rights, trans rights, and feminism should be sibling movements, not against eachother
never going to happen when modern day feminism literally exists to put men down. it used to be about making things equal for both men and women, now its about propping women up at the expense of men. look at any disney marvel project in the last few years. or the barbie movie as a prime example. 'the patriarchy' is mentioned at least 7 times. men are a joke in that movie. any recent disney adaption discards the male hero in favor of an 'empowered' female who doesnt need a man. men these days are punished by the feminist movement just for existing. we're told we're toxic if we want to increase our value by going to the gym and training to obtain a respectable physique or for having nice cars etc. its no wonder male suicide is through the roof
Yesyesyesyes yesyes--why are we the only ones who know this? Please tell as many people as you can!
WELL SAID
Why da fu#k men need a "men's rights movement"??.
Also, this is a English speaking country think. This is literally non existent in a year other country, no matter how conservative it is
The banner would be dubbed the Human rights movement because we are all humans that need to be respected equally despite our differences.
I will say, as a trans man, since I transitioned I've felt people are much less willing to accept my emotions. Especially after going to a liberal arts college. I felt like people were constantly like, "Men need to start expressing their emotions!!!" And then as soon as you do you're the immature and babyish one.
ALSO, follow up, I think one of the difficulties of men connecting with each other is emotional connection is painted as weak now. Men feel like they can only emotionally connect with women while their guy friends are people they only really shoot the shit with. Then, when said woman friend doesn't want to be more, they become angry because they are so afraid of losing the one emotional connection they had. A generalization, but I think this happens a lot.
I'm a woman and I think that everyone should be allowed to express their emotions, no matter what gender and age
Евгения Михайловна I agree, something people miss is that it’s not like women are praised for displaying emotions or that they’re even encouraged to do so- its more that it’s written off as it being a womanly thing to do. Personally as a woman, I do feel pressured not to display my emotions and have great difficulty in expressing them as a result. Our culture equates emotions with weakness and both with being a woman, so it hurts everyone in the end I think (though I’m not arguing equally)
❤
@@prikas4313 that's a great point! I know that's definitely true, but I guess what I'm saying is there are certain ways in which I feel women can express emotions and it goes unquestioned whereas if I did that people would tell me to grow up. It's interesting because in once sense the woman is having her emotions taken seriously and in another it's saying, "well women are emotionally weak anyway" and in turn granting sort of a higher maturity to the man. And honestly at this point in my life I'm not crazy concerned about whether stuff affects people "equally". Oppression is oppression is oppression and that's all gonna intersect within every individual and its it's gonna be crazy different for everyone. I think the most important thing is just acknowledging it happens and working to better it. Anyway there's my ramble.
New positive ideal of manhood?
Does Uncle Iroh count?
Hotdinnerplate
Si
Absolutly
But like that’s what he is in the show. A positive role model for Zuko to contrast his dad
Greg Universe
But he's already past a very low point into a time of singing about *Leaves From The Vine...*
Gender really confuses me. It didn't help that I was raised by a single mom with a deep hatred for men. She wanted me to believe that as a man, I would never be capable of being a good person. I can't imagine what sort of trauma contributed to her outlook. Luckily even as a child I realized how absurd the claim was. I think being a good person has nothing to do with gender or sex.
I was in a similar situation but as a woman with a father that hated them
That's tough. How old we you when this became apparent? Did you have siblings or cousin or classmates to "compare notes" with? My mom is this . . . the silence, the hurt .. really my mom is more like WAAAAAAA!!!! my mom say nothing but how good I am. My mom just cries. - like that.
It help as a a kid if you know you are not the only one. I should imagine.
Your mum was abused, most women are. Most abuse victims do not become better or even good people for the experience. They often become complex, needy, manipulative, deceptive. It took me too long to see this in myself. And I may be doing it now.
For a victim "good" is "it stops with me" you don't repeat it on kids, women anyone. Try not to.
Amen
Honestly, being brought up in more or less full family, I still remember my mother being nasty to me because of her own issues with my father, or basically favouring my older sister, because she fulfilled her expectations faster than me. The older you get, the more you see, and honestly? Sometimes the more confusing it gets. I think we should just be ourselves, and separate the gender from our being. It may seem kinda crazy at first, but it's just that your existence can't revolve just around your gender. And I think it's kind of a good way out.
So yeah, I feel you, i'm really sorry you've experienced this and I really hope we can all just be the better ones in life. Cheers.
It's true, there's no hope of being a good person whether you're a man woman or anything in between. We are all trash in the uncaring non-eyes of the cosmos
Toxic masculinity is a term that actually came out of a men’s rights group in America in the seventies, as difficult as everyone seems to find that to believe.
I heard that from Beau of the fifth...
Doesn’t surprise me that he is one of the few who has that knowledge. He is an exceptional mind.
If memory serves, I believe it came from the Men’s Liberation Movement. The MLM (lol) split into what’s still referred to as the Men’s Liberation Movement and the Men’s Rights Movement. The main difference is that the MLM is pro-feminism, while the MRM is generally anti-feminist.
The term “toxic masculinity” came from the pro-feminist Men’s Liberation Movement.
Doesn't surprise me. Ideas can come from anywhere.
Did the term mean the same thing in that context?
"affection is always concealed behind this semi-jokey front of competition"
this shit hit different
Honestly I've never been as physically or emotionally close to my step brother as I should or in comparison to my sisters. I told him I loved him and showed him I loved him but I didnt do much physically. I need to hug my step brother.
I think that’s one reason why I have so many more friends that are women or trans guys than cis guys, and that those friendships are closer. I can be openly affectionate with them, and it’s not a punch-on-the-arm kind of affection. I do need emotional support, and because of the way I am it can’t be hidden or dismissible.
I'm always openly affectionate with my guy friends because I feel like some of them need it. A platonic comforting touch can go a long way sometimes.
It's true. Dudes don't get vulnerable with each other
@@aeroandspace I used to have close guy friends. Not a lot, but one or two at a time. In recent years, my closest friends are all female. If young men isolate from each other, I think older guys do so even more, and this is at a time when they are getting less attention from women, too.
I'm really glad you care about your boys. I think more people need to realize that men's rights and women's rights aren't opposites but rather suffering siblings.
I'm glad I watched all the way through. Natalie's articulating a lot of mixed feelings I've had but never addressed.
This. And, that the most significant group oppressing men are other men.
Dan Boud: Bingo. The same type of men who catcall women are the same type who bully weaker men.
@dandeliondoodle
I disagree.
Men's "rights" are not and never have been "suffering," at least not in the ways women's rights had up until ~1974.
As this video states, the identity of a male... what is a man... is the 'suffering' concept. And that, with all it subsumes, impacts both the identity and rights of females. What it "meant" to be a man before this time of effectual identity crisis included giving women rights and privileges, and that shaped both identities.
Fuckin' deep, broh.
@@Nathanatos22 the "alpha" males if you can
This video hit me pretty hard. Coming from a person who struggled with my identity for such a long time, really only feeling comfortable identifying as a man within the past year or so. Especially as a black man I also feel the need to be extra reserved, I never want to be felt as a threat or like I’m angry. Because I don’t feel that as who I am. But at the same time I also need to understand that despite reactions toward me may be because of a racial bias. It also may be because I’m a dude and dudes do crazy shit. There needs to be distinction and that’s hard to distinguish sometimes.
NastyChinHipster
Keep going. Please.
How did you decide to be black?
*hugs*
I am sorry that people are being so racist towards you. Those people who are afraid of you for being black need to get over themselves and they need to stop being rude and prejudiced.
This bias has gaslit men by proxy we're fearful about ourselves being dangerous when we know we're not dangerous so we're taking extra care of doing something we know we don't do.
Yet we have a right to be angry when we feel like something isn't right and people seeing us as a threat just by existing is a reason to be angry. When we have to change not them, that isn't fair at all.
The masculine ideals I've tried to replicate come from Aragorn from Lord of the Rings and Uncle Iroh from Avatar.
Is it super nerdy? Maybe. But their open kindness and honesty and fierce loyalty to those they care about I think are ideals worth emulating.
Incredibly based. It's great to hear someone echo my exact thoughts about Aragorn, and I forgot how applicable Iroh is here! Fun stuff. Nerdy but 100% relevant and accurate all the same.
This is so based, love me a man like iroh or aragorn
True, but those two alone still don't feel like all that much. Aragorn basically only needed to step up to responsibility, as a warrior in line for the throne. Iroh has made most of his life decisions already and is mostly just an old mentor. A lot of the male MCs who are either teenagers or young adults fight as one the the main things they do, or have some other way in which they are unique/special, and that simply doesn't resonate all that much with me. And a lot of public figures are definitely not worth looking up to.
Love Uncle Iroh!
You should replace them with Tony Soprano and Patrick Bateman they are very positive wholesome role models imo
As a 26 year old white straight man with no purpose in life and unsuccessful regarding relationships I find it so soothing when Natalie says MY BOYS
Yes
Even as a straight man in a very loving and healthy relationship, it is still quite comforting
You are valid dude!
@@ryandunnlives fuck off
I also feel surprisingly comforted and valued when she says, "my boys"
Fellas, the positive masculinity model we need is Kronk.
maybe the himbo... is the male identity we need 🤔
THIS! 💖
The problem with Kronk is that he's at best, a bumbling idiot who happens to be big, strong, and kind-hearted. At worst, he's so gullible that he's made into an accomplice for a literal would-be conqueror and usurper who only cares about herself. If Kronk were smarter and more savvy, then yes, I would agree, but I don't want a bumbling servant as a male icon just because he bakes delicious spinach puffs.
Steve Roger's is good too
You mean a bumbling big stupid fool subservient to a domineering manipulative female?
I bet you’d like that.
As a straight man who often felt like there was no purpose in life, I have found that the best solution was to adopt a more humanistic view of the world. It wasn't so much avoiding my role as a man, but rather to emphasize my role as a human being and deemphasizing the traditional male role. That's not to say that I've washed my hands clean of taking responsibility for myself, in fact it has liberated me into creating an honest meaning to life rather than trying to live someone else's. This in turn has shaped my view of the world and how I act around others. It includes things like treating others the way I would want to be treated and not taking myself too seriously. Life became a little easier when I stopped conflating my gender with who I really was as a person. I think in some ways we are all seeing the world through the eyes of the universe, experiencing itself through many different stories. If that's true then I'd only be hurting myself if I caused pain for others.
more or less what i’m going through right now
I love this!
Damn well said, I deffinitly think you've got the right idea. The most liberating thing I've done for myself was to stop thinking I had to be at least a little cold or competitive to get through life, I think a lot of guys were told that through one way or another. Its not true though, you can be honest about how much you like and care for other people without becoming weak, in fact I'd argue it really makes you stronger, because you realize when other people try to hurt you in someway they are usually in a lot of pain themselves, and I suddenly you're not hurt anymore, you just feel compassion.
Emotionally I mean, not like, physically hurting people.
YES!! Based as f*ck
Transitioning to a man was (and still is) a very strange thing in today's world. When I realized I was a trans man I put off transitioning because I had a very negative view of men. Most of it came through bullies in highschool. Then one day I kinda used the feminist ideas I learned and applied it to my transition. I used to tell myself, "I am a woman no matter what I wear or do." So I changed it to, "I am a man no matter what I wear or do". That was really freeing for me, but I still had a lot of social dysphoria. How could I be seen as a man, but still like who I am as one? Thankfully, my grandpa's are wonderful men. They are blacksmiths, carpenters, artists, and spend lots of time in nature. I started to associate those things with manhood and have my own sense of masculinity now. While I'm not out as trans to them yet (only a few family members know. It's difficult with religion), they invite me to their "man circles" where I get to talk and have drinks with the other men in the family. They are so happy to have me there, and I'm happy to be there too. I hope men can find there own ways of expressing there masculinity like I have .
This is so beautiful
you will never be a man
thank you, i needed this
I tell myself that manhood isnt what a lot of people see it as- and i often try to model myself after a father/uncle figure people need more of in their life. Being kind, compassionate, and caring for children isnt only a feminine trait- it can also be the trait of fathers, protectors, and big brothers. Transitioning FtM is really hard, and its harder when people percieve your biggest traits as inherently feminine.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
ContraPoints has literally become my monthly round of reassurance that I'm not going completely insane.
Glad to see someone making a positive impact using their platform.
She's our last best hope for humanity.
You are going insane.
I can relate whole heartedly
@@JackedThor-so you can relate to cross dressing homosexual.
@@somastic69 Leonard Nemoy would be disappointed in you.
A couple of years ago I remember a Reddit thread that asked what should people know about being a man. A dad commented that when he takes his children to the park and he is extremely uncomfortable talking to younger children who approach him to ask questions or for small talk bc he has to keep it short in order to not seem predatorial. It was so insightful for me as a woman to hear that, it’s something I always remembered. I never thought men were insecure about the measure of safety they present. As a sexual assault survivor, I am in always in fear of men and my fear can induce a lot guilt and shame for being afraid. Which is very much internalized. I just never knew men even thought or cared about their appearance of being safe.
I mean yeah, men really hate being seen as dangerous or predatory, they don't want to be profiled.
i think it's also important with that to recognize how isolating it is, something Natalie repeated throughout. people are supposed to have relationships with their community. it can feel good to have a conversation with a kid about some weird little kid question they have. feeling like you're not allowed to talk to people you're not familiar with is super damaging, for all people, and having that specific to certain groups of people i think reinforces some of the things feminism is fighting. men feeling they shouldn't talk to kids makes us less prepared for caretaking roles. a lot of men don't feel they're allowed to take care of others, which is a human instinct and not a gendered one. as a trans guy people have questioned my gender based on the fact that i like to take care of my friends, making food or plugging their phones in when they pass out at my place. and truth be told, at first i thought i was fully nonbinary because the caricature of manhood is difficult to embrace. it's strange when you think about how masculine the word "provider" feels. the idea of providing for others being separated from caretaking is absurd, but it does feel that way. fatherhood is supposed to be about taking care of kids and being a voice of wisdom who also plays and makes excruciatingly bad jokes and teaches kids words they are not prepared for the consequences of using. to be fair it still can be, but only with your own kids, because you are a danger to others. it stops the natural desire to share. it punishes it. that's not on women alone, but i think it would help to rethink throwing around phrases like "men are trash." the more we say it, the more we believe it.
@Freekazoid Thanks for your concerns. I'm already in therapy and I do not think there is an immediate danger.
It just feels so unfair that I just want to make friends, but sadly mass culture has succeeded in making too many people believe that women are victims and men are oppressors or predators.
I wish mass media would show more friendship, kindness, love and decency between all groups - no matter if it's gender, sexuality, race, class, beliefs, etc.
@Freekazoid I get what you are saying and you are correct.
Nevertheless, if you replaced "men" with "black" and "women" with "white" in your sentence, then it would be ridiculously offensive and racist. It's good that racism is so actively opposed by culture. I wish anti-men sentiments would be treated with similar opposition.
Maybe culture will come around to this in a hopefully near future.
@@DoubleBob Hey Bob, hope you are doing better by now. Even though I understand that your experiences might have been isolating and unfair I really have to disagree that this is completely comparable to racism. Unlike black people men (mostly white but I mean as a gender in general) have held a lot of power. And since 97% of women have faced sexual harrassment or worse it‘s pretty understandable that women fear men. I understand that being judged because of something you can‘t control or change is always shitty but try to empathize a little with the other side. Racism is not comparable as white people never had any legitimate reason for fear while women do.
It feels so good for someone to actually give a shit. I am trying not to cry right now.
It’s fine to cry! Be heard and let it out!
First step to new manhood is being unashamed of your emotions. Let it all out, brother~
Yeah man, you go boy!
Dammit. Now you made me cry, too.
let's all cry together, brothers :)
I’ve worked with men in psychological crisis and the amount of times I’ve seen them both deny help and later, admit something is messing with their idea of being a “ good man “ or a “ strong man “
Having been in a mixed psych ward I've seen some pretty effd up women who are completely delusional. Not sure how this relates to your post but I thought I'd throw it in there just to remind everyone that women can be nuts too.
Sharing a point of view from a group that also feels invisible. Women that are not traditionally attractive, or feminine. Having been in that category plenty of times, I have to say that it is a place that is just as invisible as most men feel. Not only on dating sites, but on the whole. My personal experience has been one of either potential target, or white noise. Looking like a dumpy mom has its advantages, invisibility being one of them. Being considered attractive lends its own kind of privilege. Also, just my opinion, maybe women would be less likely to be paranoid of all men if we weren't always told that our safety is our own problem. Our dress, location, and manner can and usually are used against us if we are ever assaulted.
I was one of those people who discernibly "glowed-up" after puberty, and so the difference in treatment I received from familiar men and strangers alike was astounding. Instead of being ridiculed and seen as a thing to humiliate/exclude due to my appearance, I'm now seen as an object of desire. I've been stalked by men on 5 different occasions in broad daylight, I've had several instances where a stranger touched me inappropriately in public (the worst one was probably when some dude at an art gallery suddenly decided to rub his hard dick against my bum), and the cat-calling and staring never end. Oh, and just thinking about all the creepy behavior from college professors and TAs I witnessed as an undergrad makes me depressed. I don't like it, I've never liked it, and it has nothing to do with how attractive the person doing it to me is. I wear a lot of black, full-ish coverage, loose clothing now. Ultimately it made me realize that the treatment I received before and after stemmed from the same place. Being seen as more attractive just because I fulfill a very narrow set of normative standards doesn't mean men have begun to see my humanity; it means my value in reference to their desires has changed. And I'm sure when the aging process begins, it'll happen all over again. It makes me sad that as women, our lived experiences can become so warped on such a limited set of circumstances. At this point, I'm kinda just refusing to cannibalize my identity, refusing to base my self-worth on a false premise that doesn't value anything related to my agency or humanity.
Yes, being dumpy, pudgy and old is a ticket to invisibility and even, sometimes, being a target of outrage. Some people resent their mothers. But is that about gender as much as it is about valuing aesthetics above authenticity? Just throwing that out there.
@@PG-wz7by If I could weigh in on the conversation, I think women and beauty are related on the level that standards of beauty are always higher/more demanding.
I feel you. I mean, the term 'incel' was *created* by a woman who felt invisible, right? It sucks that men and boys who are hurting look around and see women as the cause.
Speaking as someone who is fairly attractive, my less conventionally attractive friends definitely get passed over in a way I don't (for better or for worse). I would argue, in spite of the difficulties men may face being regarded as visible people, they have the advantage of having the ability to prove their worth outside of looks. An ugly woman will be overlooked in intellectual, comedic, artistic, whatever pursuits in a way a man often won't. Just as an example, consider how many ugly but accomplished leading male actors of all ages there are, versus - forget even ugly! - just OLDER female leads cast alongside them.
The juxtaposition of being extra Super Rational (tm) while also regularly citing your horoscope is brilliantly infuriating. How dare you, you genius.
It was the most incredible thing!
How to parody the men on social medias who state that they are sooo rational refering chromosones and SCienCE every time the word "gender" appears, but, also to parody all the comment and youtuber who talk all the damm time about astrology to justify anything. In the words of Adore Delano: I'm a f*cking libraaaaa
Kriss de Valnor
There’s also nothing rational about worshipping speed-talking religious zealots like Ben Shapiro, et al.
@@christianc.christian5025 Completely agree it's just some narcissists pseudoscientific speech they use to comfort themselves in their reality *red pill
she also claims to have several different rising signs, which i thought was great.
There is a running joke among historians that masculinity is always in crisis.
Man is alone in the world, in tremendous eternal isolation. He has no object outside himself; lives for nothing else; he is far removed from being the slave of his wishes, of his abilities, of his necessities; he stands far above social ethics; he is alone. Thus he becomes one and all.-Otto weininger
_heartbreaking fact: 100% of all assasinated US presidents have been men. what do you think of women’s rights now?_
/s
Well .. they keep sending us to war like expendable cannon fodder. And I guess we really are just that. And then we get shit on for "toxic masculinity"... Clearing houses in Afghanistan, we were told, in no uncertain terms to shoot any supposed corpses in the dick, and one in the chest.
That fucking changes you.
@@petercarioscia9189 You did go to a country for no reason, destroying it, killing innocent people... and you feel sorry about yourself... wow.
@@me2117 Do you maybe want to reconsider saying that?
The mention of the extreme differences in social dynamics of emotional vulnerability is so true. I remember having some mindblowing conversations with an ex about the emotional sharing and support between her friends. For example, she knew the things her friends were insecure about, and would actively try to avoid putting them in uncomfortable situations, as well as give them positive affirmation regarding those insecurities. Meanwhile, I genuinely don't even know the emotions of my closest friends, one of them could be contemplating suicide and our conversation would just be about our jobs or hobbies. There's this weird pressure in our culture to never show weakness or vulnerability, and keeping that mask up is absolutely exhausting. Even among super close friends, its seen as embarassing or shameful to mention emotions, so most guys just hide it and suffer in silence.
I kind of suspect this is a huge reason why for so many guys, their "dream wife/girlfriend" is just somebody who will listen to their problems, since thats pretty much the only way they can get emotional release without shame. They can't go to therapy, since that would mean admitting they have a problem, and are therefore "weak," so they try to find that therapeutic relationship in the only form that doesn't make them seem weak, which is a significant other.
I don't necessarily think the solution to this problem of emotion bottling is just more feminine friendships although. I think male friendships can be just as amazing and fulfilling as female friendships, just in completely different ways, which is why male friendships are generally based on fucking around and having fun with video games, and why female friendships are generally based on having deep emotional connections. I think what a lot of people on the left are doing is promoting this weird feminine way of being a man that rarely any dude would actually like to be, and part of that is definitely that feminine aspect of showing your emotions.
For that reason of how showing emotions is often not very liked by men, including myself, this makes the philosophy of Stoicism very, very misunderstood. It is more about understanding your emotions and not letting them control you in bad ways and disciplining yourself which is important in the workplace and in romantic settings, than just bottling up your emotions willy-nilly that might eventually end in suicide at the extreme.
@@rudalph5923 " just more feminine friendships"
Honestly I think a lot of men would benefit from a couple cross gender friendships. I had a couple amazing female friends in college and honestly sometimes it's good to just sit around talking and eating and building emotional intimacy. Even if I want the majority of my friendships to be based around shared hobbies.
At the same time I think the left is trying really hard to get men to have straight up feminine feelings talk. I have had all sorts of conversations with men and their insecurities but it's always framed in terms of what action to take (a common issue with men's opinion of therapy as well) and sharing experiences rather than group psychotherapy.
There are a lot of mens issues and it's tough that even this video despite drawing attention to the issue is completely dismissive of any responsibility to fix the masculine role. It'd be like if men in the 70s were like "equal pay? Sounds like an issue women need to figure out." We need studies, we need trials, and we need policy changes.
@@rudalph5923 Interesting point of view. Thanks for sharing.
Tbh i have difficults to relate to that narrative as a man, i don't like the term cis tbh but i know other people Will see me as such, but the thing i cant understand its this monolith of "men interact throught hobbies and never develop deep conections" i'm a millenial from a not so progresive country in my development years and i can remember and tell countless of times of deep conections and empathy between men of all ages, i Saw male Friends cry and being emotional between Friends and Even on públic, nobody thougth less of them, ofc the sexist jokes and what not were there and other prejudices, but never to the extent of this narrative that men didnt Even care about their Friends family or life, and the same with women, ive Saw some toxic and cold/distant friendships between them, not everyone was super deep and conected just cause they were women, but somehow after all these years ive supposed to erase those experiences and jump on that generalization cause others says? @@rudalph5923
@@rudalph5923 as a leftist I support your right to express your gender (as an identity and as a social person) in any way you want. I may disagree with some of your beliefs the way you disagree with mine, but I hope you can find a balanced, fulfilling life pursuing any type of expression feels right to you. I agree that in many ideological spaces (which absolutely includes the left) it is common to put ideals above people, and while generally that's reasonable when talking to a bigot it's not really helpful in any other situation. So, for whatever it's worth, I hope you do you and live a happy, authentic life.
wow, can't believe Natalie invented men
Mom can only do so much for her boys unfortunately.
(Grindr Notification noise)
Erza Miller is my favorite new man model
Did you know this video was so good they made men into a real thing?
@Eriko. Oy Don't. We're actually do suck and go psychotic at 15 like a doberman.
Crackin open a new masculine ideal with the boys
I'm just gonna leech off of someone else's comment that's getting attention, but who else is checking out contrapoints because of Tim Tool? I am. Contra Points is pretty good too imo.
How about we just go back to the old one? Did a pretty damn good job at organizing prosperous societies in the past no?
@@dbojangles1597 because it worked for men but was actually shitty for all the not men.
@@thisishappening7273 It worked for just a select group of men, too.
@@RainyFrog Yes exactly...thank you for adding that.
honestly having someone whistle "Row Row Row Your Boat" while you are the only two people in an elevator sounds like the first scene in a horror movie.
true lmao it sounds like an opening scene in supernatural but he was probably just trying to break the tension because of the other people leaving.
kylaXstanley ah yeah I don’t doubt his intentions were pure of heart 😂 just my morbid mind couldn’t help constructing a creepy narrative, I just love creepy narratives.
The alternative is sexual assault. So not really.
David Stockwell II bruh what
@@mikikoinayama6492 i didn't understand what they were getting at either, glad I wasn't the only one XD
Last night my wife and I were having some drinks with friends. I was wearing a black leather mini skirt, Batman Crop top, a crop top biker jacket, and my Demonia platform boots.
A man comes up to me. The was a big burly biker looking guy wearing a cutoff denim vest with patches all over it, flannel shirt, dirty cargo jeans, and combat boots. I thought he was going to kick my ass.
No.
He came up to me and wanted to thank me. He always wanted to experiment with more feminine clothes and was too afraid until he saw me with my friends laughing and having a great time. I was the person who made him feel like it was safe to be himself. I told him clothes are just clothes. They keep you warm and cover your privates. That's all they are. If you want to wear a dress and heels do it. Anyone who has issue with that doesn't need to be a part of your life.
Men often feel like they have to put on a fascade of what society tells us a "Real Man" is. Parents need to be the ones to change that.
Heartwarming, but also really funny imagining a giant biker dude being like, "I JUST WANNA THANK YA BRETHER, YOU MADE ME SEE THE LIGHT".
That outfit sounds awesome.
@@jamesmcmackin8773yeah, reminds me of that one cartoon trope
Makes me think of Francis from Left 4 Dead honestly@@Itchy__
I have guys ask me ALL THE TIME:
"Where'd you get those pants??"
And when I tell them
🤨"the women's section"
It never turns into disrespect. They actually look at me like I'm a bigger man, cuz they couldn't do that.. 😮💨
The positive male ideal already exists. It's Gomez Addams. He's everything I aspire to be as a man, a husband, and a father.
same bro
Sincerely hope you find your Morticia! :)
You got your priorities right. Gomez is THE MAN!! best role model for cis het male there ever was.
YES
trad
“It’s like I finally have the body I was meant to die inside of” 🙌❤️
Reverse necrophilia? xD
I was gonna like the video anyway, but that line made it an instant click
So happy for her!
She's a real beauty isn't she? Both inside and out.
"children who are trying to raise a family"
Holy shit you really just slid that one in there
i also appreciated that
What does it reference?
@@Nathouuuutheone manchildren, I think. It's subtle.
@@Nathouuuutheone Just a play on words reflecting the incoherence and inanity of right-wing rhetoric. Kind of a mash-up of "think of the children" and "family values". Also a comment on the emotional immaturity of people who complain about social-justice movements.
I thought it was a reference to kiddos that grew up with no fathers ripppp
I will say, the 11 and 12 year old boys I worked with in a rural middle school, they were comfortable hugging their male friends and saying I love you. They never said no homo or seemed uncomfortable. There's hope.
I do hold out some hope for younger people at least in my country. Here in the UK I suspect it's because they're the first generation not to have lived under the shadow of Section 28 (a homophobic law brought in by Thatcher) or the even worse intolerance which existed before it. The right-wing politicians here are deathly afraid of the kids not being as susceptible to their bullshit as previous generations, you see endless rants from them and RW media figures decrying "wokeness".
that truly gives me hope for the future
its only urban culture thats super obsessed with not seeming gay. But no homo is just a joke now.
@@DoomShrm I don't think it is even about urban culture. I live in Russia where society is overall homophobic especially in rural areas, for example.
That’s awesome :) In my small Discord group of 3 straight 35 yo men and me they’re sometimes freely saying “I love you guys” or “when is our next DnD session, I miss you”. It warms my heart so much to read it. And they discuss mental health issues between each other. There’s hope
26:58 “We tell [men] they’re broken without telling them how to fix themselves.”
SPOT ON. It’s not enough to talk about what we’re against. We need to start talking about what we’re for.
Robo Mop AGREE, complaining is fun, and you don’t really need to think about it. but when that’s all people do it doesn’t feel like activism, it’s just a support group. and support groups are great, but only complaining and then saying you do it to make a change without ever suggesting a change just doesn’t sit well with me.
so I think you have a great idea here!
Yet people wonder why alt-right and nostalgia for traditional gender roles is on the rise.
Well there are actually some people who are telling men how to fix themselves. Jordan Peterson, for one, and his message seems to resonate fine with the young male crowd.
Yifei Jia For sure. While I have issues with Peterson, the fact is there’s a dearth of advice and role models for lost men to turn to, and for better or for worse, he’s filling a void that few other people are.
Men are not interested in being told what to do. We don't want to hear that we are broken and that we need to be fixed. We don't want you to talk, we want you to listen. We want you to be kind and supportive and call out feminists that are toxic.
"I finally have the body I'm suppose to die inside of" Contrapoints, 2019. Its such a good philosophers statement btw not even joking.
Paul21691 haha that was my favourite line
god i wish that were me
@@mischamilkovich4915 Good news, it is!
Not sure if I'm alone in this, but I feel like the problem isn't simply male identity, but male identity combined with financial issues that only seem to be getting worse. We're constantly shown images of what "success" for men looks like, but we're increasingly denied the means to obtain that. In addition, it's difficult to date or have friends when you have no time or money for that. It's difficult to have any sense of community when people have to constantly move for work. It's difficult to have any sense of hope or optimism when the world around you only keeps getting worse, and you see no viable way out of it. Not saying that things like toxic masculinity aren't also major problems that effect the current state of men, but we also shouldn't ignore that economics is a primary driver in this.
Men need to develop non-economic definitions of manhood. Women face a similar sort of obstacle, trying to define themselves as something other than their reproductive function.
I mean, I'm quite happy with more and more men(and people in general) finding their way to more economy-focused, Marxist ideas. Society has hyperfocused on the socio-cultural for too long, at the expensive of economics(wages, secondary work benefits, labour rights, proper working conditions, social safety nets).
You are absolutely not the only person thinking about this. #HumanityFirst
Same with women. We are seen as baby factories and not much else
It's something I've noticed outside of "The Grind" a lot of people are boring. If they're not doing something they're not "interesting" so they do more and more so seem "interesting". The problem is not everybody can do this as you said. Which means a lot of people seem stuck yet there's an issue at the top as well as the bottom since both sides get caught up. The top is bored because they can do anything the struggle is gone. The bottom is tired because all they're doing is struggling. The "toxic masculinity" is just bandaids methods to keep that feeling of comradery it works in small doses yet easy to OD on.
Our humanity is what makes us great yet it's so hard to be human when we have to worry about other humans doing wrong by us. Which is why I don't like government bodies have too much control. Then the media doesn't help at all yet that's a whole rant on it own with how the media created "toxicity" for both genders and people even if they don't realize accepted it.
Like there needs to be a way to talk about it without jackasses yelling and being disruptive when something they don't like is spoken. A lot of feelings need to be hurt before we get better since it's better to get it all out so it can be corrected then it popping up later.
My partner (male, bless him) is tall and bearded and used to be a bit rounder in the belly than he is now. A large boy with a loud voice, but gentle and thoughtful and kind. He isn't a particularlly masculine guy socially - if he feels like crying he WILL cry. And it'll be loud. And he will want hugs.
He is also disabled with severe fatigue and often needs a wheelchair.
The way people treat him when he is in a wheelchair to when he is standing up is night and day, even disregarding the people who go "Hello there!!! How are you?? are you going on a FUN walk?!?" like he is a baby. (Not a problem - just funny. I'm sure some people in wheelchairs really appreciate that friendly interaction.)
People are more talkative, more friendly, more open and honest with how they feel. Sitting in a wheelchair strips away everything that might make him appear intimidating to people. Even other men treat him differently.
It's super weird... and really sad. The times where he feels the most connected to others socially is when he is feeling too sick to stand up.
That, to me, is pretty fucking dire. The way people subconsciously alter their behavior around men is so stark that it completely emotionally cuts them off from EVERYONE.
Thank you for sharing this perspective/experience. So interesting!
thanks for sharing your/his perspective. just as a thought, why only use the wheelchair when he's so exhausted he can barely function? he seems to have consistent severe fatigue, yes?
i think chronically ill people are reluctant to "resort to" mobility aids, and then reluctant to use them as much as would actually be helpful, because they've internalized messages from society about what using those devices would mean about them personally: that they're play-acting sick or that they're lazy and just don't feel like walking, and so on. if it would improve his life, including having people be more open and kind to him when he's actually lucid enough to appreciate it, why not use the tools for what they're meant for?
Cis white male here, one who struggles with chronic depression and anxiety, and watching this made me think of a book my therapist recommended to me. It focused on depression in men, and a good portion of it focused on toxic masculinity - specifically, how men are trained from a very young age to be as loud and influential as possible but not express their emotions at all, in contrast to how women were raised from a young age to value emotional connection at the expense of their social expression. The effect of this mindset is fairly obvious; women by default can express their emotions more freely in society but have less of a voice, while men by default are individualistic social climbers who struggle with interpersonal connection. Hence why a good portion of men, especially successful ones, develop depression and other mental illnesses, where women struggle to be 'successful' but tend to have strong support groups to lean back on.
Honestly, I think both sides need help. Women deserve to have their voices heard and their needs and wants considered just as much as men, AND men need to be able to express themselves on a more personal, intimate level in society without it being disregarded. They're both valid points, and while men feeling bad about their lives isn't as pressing an issue as trans rights or women's reproductive rights on the surface, it becomes a more serious issue when more men start killing themselves, killing themselves AND their families, or going to public places and shooting wildly into the crowds. The real problematic people to me are the ones that think we have to focus on either men or women exclusively, or even at the cost of the other, because that's only going to save one side of the bridge while burning the other...and eventually that fire will spread and consume everything anyway.
We're all human. We all need help. We all deserve to express ourselves as a full person, inside and out, and be treated as a person for it.
This is beautifully worded and compassionate to all sides. I think we've found our new positive ideal of manhood!!!
vfaulkon *standing ovation*
Do you remember what the book was called?
@@angrymcplatipus123 It was called "I Don't Want To Talk About It", by Terrence Real
@@SamuraiShizuo That's awful! I'm so sorry you went through that. For what it's worth, I care, and I'm sure others in this comment section do too. Are you coping okay now, seeing anyone about it?
I got emotional when you talked about men being treated as dangerous by default. It's the first time I ever heard someone talk about it. Maybe it's something inevitable, but it still hurts, so thank you for the recognition.
I feel that women don't acknowledge this enough in order to not appear weak
@@danthelambboy women are trained from a very young age to be afraid of men. It's an unfortunate necessity as men are bigger, stronger and face no consequence for harming us.
@@pattygould8240 they do face consequences. In fact in US far larger consequences than women for the same crimes, a fact that can be proven by looking at statistics. If women where taught to understand men they wouldnt need blanket fear, fear doesnt protect them, fear more often than not makes them vulnerable and appearing vulnerable makes someone more likely to be attacked. Schools really should have psychology and sex studies from a young age because parents usually don't understand people well enough to teach properly. Perhaps more men who are dehumanized by women would respect those women more if they didnt do that to them.
@@pattygould8240 this!!!! My mom told me every day as a child that men only want to hurt me, use me, and have sex with me. Now (10+ years later) I am sexually confused and deeply afraid of all men. I have no idea how to stop being afraid or how to figure any of it out. I know my fear I irrational but it still feels very real. I hate living like this.
@@pattygould8240
"Face no consequences for harming us." You're not being serious, right?
Kind of off topic but i feel the comments on this video can serve as a very positive space to talk about how black men arent dangerous and are more often extremely kind and helpful dudes. An example: once i took the wrong bus and then ended up in very east of Troost in kansas city, which is a very largely black neighborhood. At the time i presented very feminine and i am white. It started pouring fuckin rain the moment i got off the bus and it was also another hour before another bus came going back. So i started walking to twoish miles west to my place in westport. About 20 minutes into this i am soaked to the bone and an older black man pulled up to me and asked me if i needed a ride. I was hesitant at first and he literally showed me his drivers license and said i could take a picture. He also said i could take a picture of his car and lisence plate. He was putting a significant amount of his personal info on the line for some random white girl. Anyway i was so thankful and taken aback by this i just got in his car and thanked him profusely, soaking his passengers seat in the process. He drove me home and then gave me 20 fuckin dollars after because i mentioned i couldnt afford my inhaler. He had a niece that died due to an asthma attack so he felt compelled to help me even though we talked about some of his own struggles as he drove me home. He gave me his business card but that was like five years ago so ive lost it. I think about that man often though and as ive transitioned to male he is one of my main masculine icons. I hope to be as paternal and caring and capable as him someday. Anyway yeah. Black men are not a threat, they are allies to all in a very broken society who largely make it better just by existing.
Tearing up reading this. Thankyou 🖤
fellow kcer here! in grandview tho!!
eta: wow, this story is beautiful. I grew up in LS where there were almost no black people, moved away to california for five years during my early twenties, then back and various parts of kc are way more integrated now than they were then. I've worked a few jobs where the workforce was nearly 40% black and I find that a lot of older black folks are extremely helpful in general, not to mention generous. I can totally see this happening in downtown KC.
and yeah, young men of color IME are consistently some of the most outwardly agreeable people
I drive for Lyft in Chicago. Young black men are the most consistently polite riders. For real.
I've had many, many black male friends who I trusted more than any of my female peers.
One dude was even prepared to help me walk home when I missed the bus.
But as I'm not white, I don't have that view of black men being a threat. More like. They're allies, anything Native people do, black people will join in.
I think for me, I'd like to tell white women. Is.
That sometimes you need to let the man be, don't stare. But definitely book it when things do get dangerous.
Which yeah, it happens.
this is the story of me and my best friends by chance winding up living in a very overwhelmingly urban black neighborhood in jersey city... and feeling more welcome and comfortable and accepted into the community more so than anywhere I have ever lived (mostly new england / canada / and texas)
I give a hearty laugh when I hear "anti-rich prejudice"
Personally I love anti-rich prejudice, we need more of that please.
Probably one of the very few based takes rolling around up there.
The classism i like (if class is related to wealth?)
It is the easiest prejudice to shed. If any rich person has a problem with very accurate assumptions made about them I am perfectly happy to help them lose this.
Nope. You think you found a shortcut to morality by reflexively opposing power, but history does not make light of any prejudice. Many tens of millions perished over prejudices that formerly disempowered groups held against powerful ones. Anti-rich prejudice is why the left in many countries managed to end up on the wrong side of history. Former Soviet immigrants like my Ukrainian friends and their families can attest to the futility of it. Anti-colonial prejudice fueled the Rwandan genocide. Prejudice is not a solution, it is a problem. Occasionally, for very short periods, it can accelerate progress, but it must be quickly forgiven, or it can cause decades of damage. As someone who knows a little about progress once said: The ends and the means are not separate, the means are present in the ends and the ends present in the means.
And when those poorer than you enact the same anti on you & yours? Complete with vengeful malevolence and cruelty. What then?
Can I just say, I'm a pretty big dude, but if I was alone in an elevator with someone and they started whistling "row, row, row your boat" it would freak me out a hell of a lot more than if they were just riding it with me in silence.
Chris Visser-Fee lol here here
You'll float too.
Yep, you're either getting propositioned or eaten, or both - not necessarily in that order...
I'm 6'2'' and I totally agree!
Yeah I don't care who I'm in an elevator with, regardless of gender or race, if we've never met just keep your mouth shut and don't even look at me, you can politely ask me to push a button and that's it, don't start whistling children's songs at me
I once was catcalled by a man yelling the word cat at me and I wish him well.
wat
Honestly, the only type of catcalling I would positively respond to is a person shouting "CAT! CAT!!!" across the street.
AHAHA
As John Oliver would say - “excellent”.
In hindsight, changing your YT name to Cat Crawford would have made this infinitely funnier.
Or maybe he was trying to point out the cat near you.
Either way, missed opportunities abound.
First time watching you, a few things:
- why does this not have 10M+ views
- the fact this came out 4 years ago is actually wild considering we weren't that far out of the 2016 era
- this is about 9 billion times better than any of the videos about male issues put out today by youtubers demonizing the left every other word
- Natalie quite literally stole my heart
- my only concrete issue is that it's not 10 hours long so I have less of something I really like
Had my right wing phase, happy to be here. This entire video still feels extremely relevant today and I'm happy I found it.
4 years ago was almost 2020....
@@jordanstark5924 Natalie starts out this video from 4 years ago, saying 2016 wasn’t that long ago, there’s no need for unwarranted criticism or correcting. Let’s be nice to each other!
I'm 6"5 and black. I definitely get treated as dangerous. Seeing some woman walk in front of me at night, look over her shoulder, speed up and get her phone out, or more often walk to the other side of the street, is not uncommon. I always try to remember that women have to be more aware (in lack of a better word) of danger, than I do - I don't really have to pay attention to where it's safe for me to go after dark... but sometimes I just want to speed past them and say "I'm just trying to get home myself!! My god". Also, whenever I pass a parent out with his or her kid, the knee-jerk reaction when they see me is to call their child to them or like reach out for them. These are just two minor examples where I can always predict the reaction I will get, for simply being present. It's subconscious, but it's frustrating. I don't look scary and I'm friendly and a good guy.
Sorry to hear about that. There's a great book called "Whistling Vivaldi" about guys who have similar experiences. It's not uncommon, unfortunately. I even get some of that as a biracial gay guy 🤷🏾♂️
I'm really sorry, I try my hardest to understand how that feels. I'm a woman of color and in public I try to be as friendly as possible to everyone, especially men of color cause I know how much crap you get for just existing, and how hurtful all those microaggressions can be
Same bruh I’m Black, 5’10, bench like Kevin Durant and I have that same issue when walking. 😂😂😂
@@nuclearcatbaby1131 Lmao thanks for your input bro. You've really contributed to this discussion.
Holy shit you're a full foot taller than me. Tbh I feel bad sometimes to be so obviously trying to avoid people in public but yeah people are scary. Sorry dude.
"maybe the average man is also oppressed by the system women call patriarchy." This. Yes. This is a perfect point. We're all being screwed by the same system, and people need to realize this. I don't mean this as a jab to feminism or as the example troll who's saying "yell well men also", we just have a social system in place that forces so many people to be what they dont want to be and it causes so much self loathing leading to projection and hatred.
Yes! We're all tangled up in this garbage and it's so tough to learn new better ways of behaviour, expectations and interactions.
@Reg Eric thank you
@Reg Eric NO U
@Doomhound they're not societies
@Doomhound I am referring to America when I say this since this is as contrapoints is also basing her argument in America
"Existential angst is for privileged" nothing attacked me more than this
Tell me about it...
I feel incredibly called out by the description at 20:57
Because if you're oppressed, you know where the threat is coming from. If you're not actively oppressed, it could be on its way from any direction!
@@CatFish107 Unless the thing oppressing you is in fact repressing you, in which it can be from all directions at once.
🥺
Hey Natalie, I know this is kind of an old video and I'm pretty sure you're not gonna read this comment and I realize most viewers won't either, but I just wanna say thank you for always being empathetic. I also wanna share my experience.
So, I now identify as a trans woman but I've lived as a gay man my whole life and I haven't transitioned yet. Some of the things you said in this video about being a man (or presenting as a man when you're actually a trans woman) deeply resonated with me. I appreciate your perspective so much because I rarely see it being represented in left-leaning circles.
When I was a kid, I was already very feminine and flamboyant, so a lot of kids would call me names in school and that of course included homophobic/transphobic slurs like fa**ot, s*ssy, etc, and they were usually hurled at me by boys. But what was unique about my experience is that I was also bullied a lot by girls. Sometimes they'd just use the same homophobic/transphobic slurs a lot of the boys used, but a lot of girls also called me creepy and avoided me like the plague even though I'm not attracted to girls and I literally hadn't done anything to them.
Looking back, I think what caused that kind of reaction from girls was a combination of a lot of different factors, such as me being neurodivergent, my queerness, the fact that I wasn't conventionally attractive, me trying to be in close proximity with girls because I related to them more and wanted to hang out with them and be "one of them." But of course, they interpreted all of that as just me being "creepy" and used that as an excuse to treat me like a freak. The possibility that I might've just simply wanted to hang out with them didn't occur to them since I was a "boy" and boys aren't supposed to hang out with girls unless they're sexually attracted to them.
I think the typical narrative when it comes to feminine gay men/trans women growing up in the closet as children is about how they usually have a lot of girlfriends and are accepted into communities that cishet men don't have access to. That was true for me too to an extent, but at the end of the day, even if I hung out with a couple of like-minded girls who actually treated me like a human being, I was always excluded from the larger community and most girls treated me like shit.
So why didn't I turn out to be a misogynist who hates women? Well, it's simple. It's because I'm also a woman. It's because most boys also treated me like shit. Jocks hit me a lot. But even the nerdy boys who weren't considered conventionally attractive treated me like shit, because, even though we were pretty equal in terms of social status, I was feminine, and in their eyes, that made me a freak. Because I was also a girl, and because boys treated me like shit too, I was able to understand that it wasn't that girls were horrible monsters who didn't deserve rights. I understood that it was just kids in general, both boys and girls, who were cruel for no reason.
If me being trans and feminine was what stopped me from becoming a misogynist, then what's to stop alienated, lonely, insecure cis straight men from turning into misogynists? NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. The truth that a lot of people in left-leaning circles often don't wanna hear is, that a lot of girls suck (just as a lot of boys also suck), and sometimes they just treat men like shit for no justifiable reason. Neurodivergent men, men who are considered unattractive, and men of color are especially vulnerable to this. Assuming other boys didn't treat them as bad as girls did since they had the privilege of growing up as cishet men, it's no wonder why they attribute this hurt solely to women when they grow up. If left untreated, this trauma can and does drive people to be resentful and arrive at harmful conclusions instead of facing the root cause.
A rigid binary gender being enforced is what's behind all of this since it divides kids and sets up a structure that eventually turns boys and girls against each other. Toddlers don't care about gender as much as older kids do and they play with both boys and girls. But as kids grow up, they're forced into a binary environment in which you either have to be a sexual object or an objectifier, a conqueror or the conquered, a ruler or the ruled. Social interactions between boys and girls which don't involve sexual implications are heavily discouraged in this process, if not outright eliminated. Women who aren't deemed "feminine" and "pretty" enough aren't worthy of becoming objects that can sexually satisfy and comfort men after they come home from a long day of work tired, stressed, and miserable because of coerced labor in the capitalist system, therefore they have no value in society. Men who aren't deemed "masculine" and "strong" enough aren't worthy of becoming objectifiers who are entitled to conquer women like objects to compensate for the fact that they are commodities exploited for capital, therefore they have no purpose in life. That's how cisheteropatriarchy coerces both men and women into defining themselves in a way that reproduces itself. And this is exactly the environment in which boys are molded into misogynistic men who can only see women as objects that don't deserve rights. I believe this explains incels' hyper obsession with looks and sex.
I also believe a lot of women who would describe themselves as left-leaning or even feminists engage in behavior that perpetuates this very system. For example, dick-shaming. I think a lot of women have this mentality that's like "we're body-shamed all the time and men have it easy, so let's give them a taste of their own medicine for once," but that completely ignores the fact that dick-shaming is also part of the same patriarchal system that reduces people, men and women alike, to their bodies and only assigns value or purpose to bodies that can either easily conquer or be easily conquered. It tells men that their dicks exist for one purpose only: to conquer women. It takes a part of your body and turns it against your soul as a reason why you're worthless. It goes without saying that some cis men who are feminists happen to have small dicks, and they don't deserve to be shamed. But I find dick-shaming particularly hurtful, partly because I, as a pre-op trans woman who was assigned male at birth, happen to have a small dick, too. And I'm not ashamed to admit that, because I think it's important to acknowledge that dick-shaming doesn't just hurt good men; it hurts trans women and genderqueer people who were assigned male at birth. It's also deeply hurtful to trans men who are insecure about their genitals and how that relates to society's idea of what manhood should look like.
The same thing can be said about shaming men for being virgins. Combating incels and reactionary men is very important, but you can't meaningfully combat their presence by reinforcing the very idea that makes them so resentful in the first place: the idea that men's purpose in life must be to conquer women. In a modern society where only consensual sex based on mutual attraction is accepted, there are bound to be men who no woman's willing to have sex with. That's inevitable and can't be avoided. The question we should be asking is not how to make sure men like that don't exist or how to ignore them, but how to make sure men like that won't turn to misogyny as an answer to their perceived problems. We should be telling them that it's okay to not have sex, and that they don't have to be strong and masculine to be treated like they matter as men. Men like that are right in that they *are* victims, but they aren't victims of women. They too are victims of the patriarchy and we should be doing everything to help them realize that.
This example, specifically, reminds me of liberal wine moms who make fun of Trump supporters for being "trailer park white trash." Like, sure, I'd imagine a lot of white people who live in trailer parks *do* support Trump and are very reactionary for sociological reasons, but there are also a lot of people like that who don't support Trump. And also, there is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with living in a trailer park. If anything, they are also victims of neoliberal capitalism, and we should be doing everything we can to open their eyes to that fact. Shaming them might feel good in the moment, but in reality, it's counter-productive because it only fuels their resentment towards who they perceive as "coastal liberal elites" and that in turn makes them even more hateful towards powerless minorities who are victims of the same system that's oppressing them. I've also noticed that some left-leaning POC unironically make fun of white people for things that aren't inherently bad, and I find that disappointing. Since white supremacy is often used to get white people to vote for politicians that will make their lives worse, white people are victims of white supremacy too but not many are willing to acknowledge that. It's like, a lot of people on the left are like the unironical conservative strawman of the angry, divisive Marxist whose worldview is just "rich people evil, poor people good," and applies that simple logic to any privileged and oppressed groups, when in reality, Marx mostly criticized systems, not individuals.
But I digress... I wish to live in a world where both men and women recognize that they're both victims of the same system, and work together in solidarity. That starts with compassion. Again, thank you for always being so empathetic to everyone, Natalie. You're like a beacon of light in this cruel world. Your ability to see the bigger picture and empathize with even those who might see you as subhuman never ceases to amaze me. It's beyond admirable. Please keep doing what you're doing if you can and never forget how you positively impact the world 💓
honest to god, this comment said so much i wanted to express, but couldn't word.
personally the best comment i found so far, tysm
@@LouDuLappe
I’m glad my comment resonated with you ☺️ It’s something I wish more people were willing to talk about, and it’s good to know I’m not the only one who feels this way.
I agree with @So ein Mensch, thank you for sharing your thoughts and your story :)
I wish UA-cam has a heart react button for comments like yours.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️...
I will also add height shaming to the list of things women openly shame men for, as if short men have no worth at all. They are not even human beings to them.
marx: seize the means of production!
natalie (an intellectual): overthrow the bourgeoisie meow meow
Welp, I know what my next protest sign will say.
Don't forget Engels. He is the Luigi in these Marxio games.
OvOer throwo the bouwurgowoise
@@otto_jk luidrich
If you have the internet you are the bousooibeeheh he
Not gonna lie, as a dude just the fact that someone is even willing to take a step back and try to take a look at what's going on with us is extremely refreshing and touching.
As another dude. Why the f*ck would you care about 1 persons opinion? I mean, even if it's a positive one. That mindset is a weak mindset. Be more confident in yourself.
@@glp.1337 What are you even on about?
@@Sapperbounded What do you mean? Read your comment, then read mine. It's pretty simple. What part(s) don't you understand?
@@glp.1337 It's nice to feel seen by another person. Sure, it's good to develop a strong sense of self outside of that. But it's not weak or unconfident to appreciate someone trying to understand you. Dismissing those sorts of connections is brittleness - it's understandable to never want to bend again if you've been broken in the past, but it's not going to help you in the long run.
@@scottarthurson1602 It's nice to feel seen, I agree. But it is a weak mindset, at least from the males perspective. And sure, in Modern Western culture this might not be the case. But sadly Western Culture isn't globalized. He started with "as a dude" implying it's relevant to his statement so that's where I zoomed in. Because he is talking about his female traits and putting the emphasis on "as a dude" which is contradictory. So from a males point of view, this is considered a weak mindset. Not saying it is weak to feel appreciated in general. But the way he phrased everything made him look like he's looking for validation.
I’m a cis male. I’ve been raped by a woman, details aside. Did MGTOW have systems or support groups in place to help me? I didn’t specifically look, but it didn’t seem so.
Where did I find support and help? Groups where I was the only man that welcomed me with open arms. Turns out the salient part of that equation isn’t your bits, but being a person struggling with the emotional difficulties involved with having been raped (unsurprisingly.)
Side note: men looking for a specifically male/macho viewpoint on UA-cam that is positive and nontoxic, Beau of the Fifth Column is the channel for you.
@@leonardbrkanac9150 not the question you should be asking.
@@flytrapYTP he's gone
What made you think MGTOWs had support systems to help you?
Anthony literally the first question I’d be asking
@@leonardbrkanac9150 Shut up, Leonard.
"Invisible and Dangerous", I recently came out as non-binary and started presenting more femme, and I noticed that people in general (especially women) seem less guarded around me than they did when I presented masculine. Not even exaggerating, it was like someone flipped a light switch. I mean yeah, there's obviously _(gestures wildly)_ other issues that come with transitioning and presenting as a gender other than what you were born, but that was something that I *definitely* noticed.
Literally paint your nails and people drastically change how they react to you.
Having started trying to present more androgynously, despite still having facial hair, I’ve noticed that too. It’s depressing how little empathy I got even in literal therapy before now. 🫠
I'm a trans guy, so I kinda have the reverse experience. When I first started passing, the social flip was SO jarring and lonely that I worried for a while that I'd made a mistake. People were suddenly very cold and distant with me, and it became very difficult to make friends. For a while, I actually intentionally presented more femininely, wearing earrings and painting my nails and stuff, just so people would be nice to me again. I switched back to a more traditionally masculine fashion sense recently, just because it better suits who I am, but, damn, I miss when people were friendly.
Sure the yogurt is powerful, but fellas, is it tactical?
Real men only eat yogurt made from paracord.
Just think of yogurt as a Venom symbiote for your bowels and it's already as masculine as you need it to be.
Go-gurt is most tactical as it fits in pistol mag pouches. Don't forget to put your oats and berries in the cleaning kit compartment in the butt stock.
Why is no one talking about the mouth feel?
@@payday510 it is a powerful mouthfeel
I actually think that many people, even you Contra, don't understand how much you are doing to de-radicalise young men. Your incel vid talks about some of the horrible things incels fantasise about but also make clear to mention how utterly miserable these people are deep down. Getting them to feel better about themselves through empathy, as well as constructive criticism and some humour, could very well save lives, namely their own.
Well said, Borat.
And potentially others. Cause you know mass shooters don't appear in thin air with their incely racist manifesto.
Contra has mastered the art of telling people to get their shit together, but in an empathetic way. That's one thing (maybe the only thing) she and Jordan Peterson have in common.
this comment is smug it gave me the runs
What amazes me the most is when otherwise "normal" people say shit like "lol you're just saying that because you're angry you can't get laid! What a loser!"
Hmm, yeah, you're clearly making this problem better and not at all handing yet another bullet to the next Elliot Roger.
And in case you thought that was a joke, yes I am blaming the idiot masses for these things. The people who point and laugh instead of offering a helping hand.
It's not just incel shooters either, I've actually written an essay(granted, it was in high school ^.^) about this about 10 years ago. I did some research into why men do this (because it's almost always men), and it was SCARY to say the least.
From the ones where the shooter survived, they almost always said that gunning down the people they hated was the LAST resort. They tried their school, their parents, even the authorities, but nobody helped them. So obviously, the last option is murder. Turns out that political terrorists are quite an exception, though they obviously do exist.
But I think we're getting better. When I felt really shitty and started having these same thoughts, complete strangers on the internet actually reached out to me and genuinely wanted to help. I don't know if it's because the world is getting better, or simply that through the internet people can reach each other better than 10 years ago.
So, in closing, if you see people like this, don't shit on them. I've been on both sides of this, and I can tell you that more hate doesn't solve the hate they already feel.
But I suspect a lot of "normal" people are just as fucked as the incels, they just managed to get some sliver of social acceptance that they use to cope.
At this point, I've been a feminist for most of my adult life, and I've become aware of my tendency to hate myself at about the same time. I've been in therapy for a long time, but I still tend to isolate in my room. I've never had a fulltime job, and I've never had a girlfriend. I'm physically disabled, and both the job market and dating make me really anxious. I worry that I'll fail because I'm so anxious, and that's of course a neverending loop of self-destruction. I know that I try my best to put on a happy face, and work through my fears. But I think people can tell that I don't really believe in myself. I don't really feel motivated to make something of my life. I just fear disappointing people and having all my self-hate confirmed. I hesitate before calling my friends because I'm afraid I'm too needy. I feel like a creep whenever I find a woman attractive. I worry that I'm just too clingy and sad to treat a woman like she deserves to be treated. I know I'd burn myself out if I approach women with that attitude. I feel like any job I could apply to is either inherently immoral or that someone else needs or deserves it more. Every day is a struggle to keep trying and applying.
I feel like I'm still destroying myself slowly and I'm just so lonely most of the time. I feel exhausted after talking to people and I just want so badly for people to love me. And I realize that''ll only come naturally when I love myself. And that's hard.
If you've read all the way to the end, I'm just happy you'd let me vent. I feel a little bit better now. If you recognize the feeling, you're not alone and I know you're more loveable than you think.
Tim de Visser I relate to you in a lot of ways even though I don’t have a life altering disability. I don’t think I have anything practical to say because I’m still trying to figure it out but I wanted to assure you that you’re not alone.
I read to the end. It sounds to me like you could use a group of kind people who value others' inherent value and worth (including yours) in your life. I feel weird saying this, because I've always been annoyed with evangelicals pushing religion on me, but I found some very wonderful people at my local Unitarian Universalist church. It's not a typical group. If you want to learn more, look for the 7 principles at uua.org. If that doesn't seem right to you, I imagine finding a non-profit and volunteering a little time each week would do you well. You sound like a kind-hearted person who needs to see other kind-hearted people in action. In either of these places, I think you can find what you are looking for.
healingfear speaking as a mainline Protestant, there are a lot of good people in that faith bloc as well. The United church of Christ and the episcopal church are known for being progressive and there are certainly progressive wings of the mainline presbyterians and Lutherans
I really relate to the job thing and I'd recommend looking into careers that you'd find interesting that don't necessitate working for a big evil company™. In the meantime, volunteering could give you a bit of confidence back and you're usually doing something good for your community too.
Are you in any kind of therapy or anything like that? I'm diagnosed with a personality disorder and I was a lot like that. You sound like you're suffering from depression (sorry if I'm stating the obvious here) and it could do you some good working on your issues. I think trying to "love yourself" when you're still full of self loathing is a gargantuan task, it's much easier to first try to accept yourself instead, shortcomings included.
@@SleepingDragon3 it's wonderful to get in on a church event like marching & service projects on Martin Luther King Day. We joined up with Methodists for it last year. We do a lot of partnering with Protestant churches and secular non-profits in the area, as well. UUs are weird in that we have people of many different faiths in our congregations and atheists, too!
As a girl feminist, this is a message from heaven. I've been having these exact thoughts and trying to critically question my own political ideals especially regarding feminism, but i could never quite pinpoint the "man" issue... The systemic shit men do go through and its consequences. Going through the comment section and seeing boys discuss was beautiful.
My onpy problem with feminism is that it makes everything about women , like when I bring the draft thing and the patriarchal man hating idea that men need to go for war and men need to do something in order to be valued as human beings , I always get "Its because misogny", which switch the attention to women ,and its also not true , it has a part of it but it is not the primary reason, the main reason is that men are seen under the patriarchal system as property to use in wars and mines and shit like that .
@@soy_boy69 but feminism is about women tho...of course it's gonna talk about everything regarding them.
@@soy_boy69
Cause Feminism is about women genius.
Women have been historically oppressed by men for centuries.
Not too long ago women were second class citizens.
The point of feminism is to uplift women to achieve the same rights opportunities and social standing as men in order to achieve Equality.
@@soy_boy69 I think you're conflating discussions about patriarchy and feminism with one another. Which- yeah, terminology is pedantic and boring, so I get how these two might seem the same sometimes. Quick summary:
Feminism is a movement about, as the person above (?) me put it: uplifting women in hopes of achieving equity among genders, as women have been historically seen as "less then" by society. That's why all the talk about feminism revolves almost solely around us-we're building up, not tearing down.
Now, what you were probably picturing during your argument is JUST patriarchy, not feminism-the system by which the opression of women became possible. Think of it as a machine, or a computer code but the only result is pain for all involved, men, women, everyone in between and off the sides. Patriarchy enforces a set of expectations for each gender, which, in case of men, often times results in repression and isolation, a lack of connection as Natalie described. To women, it revolves around objectification, being seen but not heard-misogyny stems from that, which is why feminists use that word almost non-stop.
When we are talking about patriarchy, it's absolutely imperative we discuss both sides of the issue, as it's not just women getting hurt by these standarts. Feminism opposes patriarchy under a very specific lenses-talking about women's opression. Now, that doesn't mean, say, a "mennism" would be less valid in also being opposed to patriarchy. The system might arguably benefit men (notwithstanding the narrowing of their valor solely to labor, as you exemplified using mines and war) after all, but is it really worth the suffering?
That was what Natalie proposed at the end of the video, by the way. To create a men's movement that opposes patriarchy instead of opposing feminism.
@@elfodelputoinfierno Problem is, a lot of women don't believe men need a men's movement, and I think the reason for that stems from feminism being exclusively about women and excluding men from the conversation. I understand that feminism is about empowering women, and I understand that a lot of men are toxic and don't contribute anything to the conversation but the result of that are women who think men just don't care about anything. There are a lot of really bad ideas about men circulating in the feminist circles, which creates even bigger divide between men and women. It created a situation where men are scared to open up and say anything because god forbid you say something wrong about any woman.
To be clear, I am not saying all women are like this, but majority of the die hard feminists are. I believe feminism is needed, that there are a lot of issues that women are still struggling with that need to highlighted to my fellow men. There are a lot of women who now separated themselves from feminist movements, because they've decided themselves that these spaces can create a toxic, rather than empowering, environment.
It's not hard to see that something is wrong because we are not heading in the right direction here, things are getting more confusing for both sexes and if we are not careful we might end up completely ruining what we have already achieved.
i can vouch for the fact that when i transitoned - before, when i presented “female” , i felt like eyes were on me literally all the time and was constantly wary of being talked to, especially by cis men. people noticed me, helped me, etc. after transitoning and presenting and “passing” as male, ive become literally invisible. people dont even look at me. it was both a relief but also pretty damn isolating too. there was a level of vulnerability i could exercise as a female presenting person that was completely erased once i transitioned. it was quite interesting to notice, and odd to get used to because i had to suddenly be acutely aware of the fact that theres levels of vulnerability that arent “appropriate “ for men to show. lol. there’s credence to this theory i think.
@Johan Liebert that’s a weird question to ask
Are you implying anything with that or just genuinely asking the question?
This was 3 months ago but could you please go into more detail about “showing vulnerability”?
I’m very interested
@@oimate6357 why's it weird
@@KM-eb5yo because usually it’s men that have power over women
In fact that is how it is in society
Most of the time in small ways but there is a gap nonetheless
@@oimate6357 women have power over men cuz society protects women and men tend to protect women more than other men. Unless you're a bitter incel or a fuckboy but they're not seen positively by society.
"We all know the archetype. He has trouble relating to women, he has no strong friendship group, he's not excited about any long-term goals, and he fills the void with videogames and porn." This... is too accurate. It really makes me think about what I might believe now if I had listened to different political commentators in my teens. It really makes me think about how I need to change too.
Also, the elevator thing is 100% how a lot of guys feel when alone with random women. I've made a habit of crossing the street myself when it's not busy and there's a lady walking towards me. It's like a preemptive sign of non-aggression, like I have to prove I'm not a shitbag by default.
I'm happy for you men
I think the fact that I opened up in high school and developed strong friendship groups is what ultimately saved me from this. That, and when I got really into atheism it pushed me left and my Jewish heritage made me disgusted by anything Nazi-related, so I was always disgusted by those movements by default. But yeah, becoming more willing to interact with people made it easier to relate to women and now probably more than half my friends are women. I just shudder to think where I'd be if I never found myself socially, because I've seen people lose themselves when they can't find a way to fit in.
I just paused the video at that point and went "Hey, how are you?"
I spent a chunk of my 20s hanging out on 4chan, laughing at racist memes, convincing myself it was "dark humour" and not "racist humour". Thinking I was smart because I questioned 9/11 and the climate and blah blah. I'd never considered myself racist, even at a young age I never understood a hatred or mistrust of black people. But I imagine given time I might have gone down that road.
I don't know what happened exactly...might have been Twitter, honestly. But I started giving more of a damn about people in terms of groups. Hearing experiences. Certainly in the last 3 or 4 years I've gone quite left leaning and I cringe at the person I was in my 20s. The stupid things I used to think.
And I've done as you say, too. On a street at night, if it's not possible to cross the road I've maintained a distance that allows her to see my shadow behind her (so she can see I'm not making a move), but still far enough that I can't do anything. I try to stay in her line of sight if possible. I make it clear I'm not looking at her and I keep my hands visible. I don't like the idea a person is afraid of me simply because I'm a man, but I also know that men can be the worst...and she doesn't know me from a hole in the ground.
Especially the part about the wanking off
I am not in any irl friend groups but I have social anxiety and was homeschooled when I was a kid so that might be why. I just hope that Im not bad for not finding irl friends
honestly, i feel like trans people are such an untapped source of perspective on how men and women are treated in society. as a trans guy who didn't transition until my 20's and who passes well now, i've learned so much that i never heard of or thought of before transitioning. one of the biggest struggles i have in life now is that before i transitioned, i was a quiet and socially awkward girl who liked videogames. people thought i was timid but sweet and would approach me or want to work together. now, as a quiet and socially awkward guy who likes videogames, i actually make people uncomfortable. i feel like i'm overly polite and never say or do anything remotely violent, but i actually had someone report me because they saw me frustrated (bad day, was just frowning and marching home minding my own business) and thought i was going to harm myself or others. and in this day and age with everything going on, i can't even blame them. it also seems like girls are much more afraid to be alone with me (i'm gay, so any perceived 'nice guy' behavior is not intended).
that being said, there are also things that got way easier after transitioning. people don't doubt my understanding of stem subjects and i can walk home alone at night without worrying nearly as much. as much as male activists tend to be awful and just a reaction to shut down feminists, i do think that it's a subject that should be talked about rather than shut down instantly.
If you want a good space to *actually* discuss mens rights that isn't just a front for misogyny, I can recommend /r/menslib
You’re probably right, one thing you’ve said has me super intrigued though. I myself am a white male, and would relate to the whole quiet socially awkward guy that likes video games thing, whenever I step out of the house and the light is dim to dark, or in unfamiliar lit places I am absolutely shitting myself. That’s horrible and if it was genuinely worse being a woman to what you experience know I’d like to know more (because I can’t even comprehend what kind of hell that must have been). Would you mind expanding on your experiences relating to this before and after transition?
The media has spent a lot of space vilifying quiet gamers, so it isn't weird people get concerned. It's not right, but the media love sensationalism. Even among the recent attacks they tried to pin it on video games IIRC. I am glad so many people today are into gaming and know to dismiss these ridiculous claims.
@SheGotTerryDavisEyes 82 damn babe are you a contortionist? Because that stretch is impressive! The guy was only saying that his experience was valuable because people devalue his experience, and that we, because it's fair to say you're also cis, have a worse understanding of gender than someone who's experienced being seen as multiple, and that seems pretty fair to me, I suspect you have a better understanding of being a raving loon than him because he lacks that experience.
@SheGotTerryDavisEyes 82 ooh yes daddy, now tell me I've been a naughty boy!
Omg, you’ve literally nailed so many points I’ve struggled with.
I’ve been a borderline “redpiller” but I always rejected the venom in the typical narrative.
The irony that a woman, trans too boot, has enlightened me, hasn’t escaped me lol
Tell me more about your experiences and/or beliefs, sir/miss. What made you a borderline "redpiller" and what kept you from swallowing it? Talking with someone can help ease your stresses.
Dont take my alpha joghurt away from me
well there is always sOy YoGhUrt ;-)
Hallo Drei Pfeile! :P
Chad Arrows
No joghurt for you until you post a new video! The last one was outstanding.
Can you upload the stream with the serfs. Please.
@@WindspriteM Hey what's wrong with soy you brain force plus addicted hypermasculine man!
This video feels like having a 3 am drunken conversation with a long time friend.
Except it's also kind of a sleepover, starting off as light foreplay at first, but then sobering up at about the same time and realizing it's better right now if you just talk instead of f**k. But you still kinda want to try the mouthfeel.
Are you drunk or are they?
@@Lawfair Yes.
i feel like every contrapoints video gives me that kind of vibe
Just my two cents, but I think Tolkien's heroes are a decent example of positive masculine heroes, like how Frodo and Sam can have a deep and intimate friendship and emotionally support one another, and even if they need to resort to violence at times they are also able to show compassion towards their enemies, plus the last chapters in LOTR are basically entirely about how all the different heroes settle down and start rebuilding Middle Earth. I love Peter Jackson's movies, but I am a bit disappointed that they didn't show Aragon being a skilled and empathetic healer like in the books. I think fiction could use more male heroes portrayed as good healers and nurturers.
It's very telling that as a young man a lot of other young guys would tell me Frodo and Sam's friendship "creeped them out", it was too intimate for them, too "gay" compared to modern male gender norms that it made them uncomfortable. (Obviously not all men felt this way, but some certainly remarked that it did).
Exactly ! I don't agree that the model of man as a warrior is unwanted and not needed in our society. Quite on the contrary. We need warriors now more than ever. The idea is that you can be a warrior and be emotionally connected, compassionate and have intimate friendships in the same time.
There's a video floating around youtube about how Newt Scamander (from Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them) could be a good candidate. He does present some of the same qualities as Aragorn does, empathy, healing, caregiving, and such - but, importantly, he is humble and has no "great destiny". He just loves animals and wants to help.
The video put very well into words how I felt about the character but hadn't consciously formulated.
It's on the Pop Culture Detective channel, check it out.
I just watched 3rd season of 13 reasons why and I really liked how they show friendship there. Especially between Justin and Clay - from being indifferent to each other to being brothers. Even though I don't think that friendship is built on the right reasons, it's still showed as really careing relationship.
@@evehelbarde756 ".. that you can be a warrior and be emotionally connected, compassionate and have intimate friendships in the same time." oh is that all? so... emotionally connected and empathetic so we can feel every wound we cause ... and still cause them. what could go wrong?
I had a discussion with my younger cousin recently that reminded me a lot for this video, about how there's no clear guide for young men to express their masculinity. Because of that, they just become resentful of having to repress all of their impulses. This REALLY made me worried for him.
There is. It's the traditional model, but just a tad less restrictive.
@@dragonbeardableplease explain because the traditional model of living and dying for your country isn’t so appealing anymore. One, because i’m not interested in dying for a war i don’t believe in, and two, because everyone fucking hates the military now.
The performative innocence is real. I'm a petite 5'1 black girl and still feel like I need to do this in the presence of old white ladies who think I'm going to rob them. Even though like i've never been in a fight and cry in arguments but ok.
Man, that sucks.
Sorry about your experience. Don't know if this helps, two things to consider are first, the old white ladies have decades of indoctrination from our culture telling them that you are probably not safe, second is that the more physically vulnerable a person is, the more they have to fear, and the more fear they feel. When just about anyone can knock them down and hurt them badly without much effort, they probably are afraid ALL THE TIME.
It's not right, but it's how things are. Any suggestions on how to change this will be gratefully accepted.
@@shawnwales696While that seems reasonable, I highly doubt that's the case when it comes to racist old white women. There's no suggestions I could give that would fix or change someone's prejudice. Thank you for your concern though. 🌸
StrawberryOrgasms fax
I feel this as a 5'3 black girl (? Up for debate atm tbh but I'm perceived as such so w/e) and I'm always anxious about coming off as too aggressive or whatever bc anything less than compliance and nonchalance makes me a "threat." It's so frustrating and suffocating
Carmen Sandiego wears red.
Red-pilled Carmen Sandiego wears black.
Makes sense.
Wow I-
The rabbit hole goes deep and is very dirty
She's about to be black-pilled.
If Carmen Sandiego was red-pilled, would her next biggest heist be to steal contraceptives from poor women of color?
@@SoupStores always one step ahead of the game.
I feel like trans folks have a very valuable perspective on men/women's rights. Afabs suffer through "girlhood" and manhood, Amabs suffer through "boyhood" and womanhood.
It certainly seems so... Why didn't I watch this channel earlier ??!!
I'm ftm. Still pretty early in transition, 7 months on T. But I've already noticed a ton of changes. The most interesting one to me is how the T changed me mentally. Like now I literally can't cry. Tears won't come out. Made me change some of my opinions on how men show emotion and stuff like that. People also treat me way different on social media (because that's the only place I pass)
I miss my female privileges sometimes. Examples: I can’t be within any distance of a child without anyone freaking out. Even if I have no idea a kid is near me, (like in an aisle at a store) people think I’m up to something. I miss people not scrutinizing my height. I miss women not immediately assuming I’m hitting on them just because I breathed in their general direction (I’m not even attracted to women). I miss when I wasn’t expected to do dangerous things to prove myself. I miss women not practically demanding I throw myself into danger to protect them. I know a lot of trans guys push the narrative that “people listen to what I have to say now”, but it’s not true for me. I’m ignored more than ever. People are far ruder to me. The list goes on. It really sucks being a man. It’s painfully depressing. (In my experience)
@@BlackSheepNara I don't think people in the general population assume I'm a guy most days. It's pretty rare they do although it does happen more and more frequently. I've heard similar stuff though.
@@BlackSheepNara it does make me wonder, when people push the "people listen now" stuff, is that maybe because maybe now they are comfortable in their gender identity and are now perceiving situations differently? I've spent years assuming a lot of the way I'm treated is because I present as girl. Then maybe a few years into this I just realize I'm sort of a shy reserved person who is kind of asking to be ignored because I lack confidence and I just accept it. I hope that makes some sort of sense.
My boyfriend has told me that he doesn't like the fact that he's assumed to be dangerous, even though he completely understands why women cross the road at night. This video also reminded me of another conversation I had with him. I'm mixed race and he's white. We went to a poetry night on Freedom Day (we're South African) and most poems recited were about whites oppressing POCs. A couple days later he told me he sometimes feels hated amongst his non-white peers. Racism isn't over and we still face systemic issues caused by apartheid which only ended very recently, so of course there are a lot of youth who are still hurt by ongoing issues. But I understand where he was coming from. I once told him that when we first started going out, I had to make sure that he wasn't secretly a racist who fetishized mixed women before I got too attached to him. He was a bit surprised, but he understood my reasoning, so he isn't a person who disregards these difficult experiences.
I don't think it's wrong to want people your own age to give you the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming that you are oppressive or complacent in their continued oppression. He kept telling me that he wished there was some way to prove that he wasn’t like the apartheid generation, but unfortunately that just isn't possible especially when there is still reason for us to distrust white people.
Anyway, great video. I hope that we can move into an era in which men feel more heard and in which all genders understand that our issues can be fought together.
Bro y u with a whiteboy if u don’t trust white ppl?😭😭😭
Your poor white BF, assuming to be a predator in an apartheid state. His trauma must be immense. I'm sure he has a lot of trauma from being white. Let's talk about him. Let's focus a whole conversation around his trauma about being part of an oppressive class.
I also understand where he's coming from. I'm just telling him to get a grip.
_Contrapoints, For Him_
That's right girl. Bottle and sell those FACTS and LOGIC
Next we just need some Contra brand Bath Water.
I'd buy
@@Supernautiloid Trans Girl Bathwater
I'm female and I strongly agree that female social groups are way more supporting. I have had completely male and completely female circles of friends before and the difference is astounding. Guys usually just insult each other jokingly and even when they are in emotional trouble, they don't really know how to handle it with something else than humor. One of MY BOIS literally had to care for his young siblings by himself because his mother was depressed and almost never home. When I offered emotional support by saying he could talk to me about his anxieties, I was laughed at because guys are STRONG and don't talk about their feelings.
On the other hand, female groups care for each other. They talk about their feelings and compliment the shit out of each other. Sure it's only my personal observation but I've noticed the same online as well. Men get lonely and depressed because they are never taught to open up about their struggles, people expect them to be strong. And when they simply aren't, they feel like failures. Toxic masculinity raises school shooters and incels and I hope future parents and teachers will do something about it.
I'm surprised no angry self hating regressive dude bro has called you a 'cuck' or 'beta fag' yet.
@@gone5815 ... didn't she say she was female? I mean it makes no senseto call a female a 'beta fag', does it? (I'm not a native English speaker, so maybe I do not know about smth)
@@michaelbarquero6079 Could you elaborate on that term? I'm not exactly sure what you are adressing.
@@Miraynui I think what he means to say is "internalized mysogyny"
Please understand that this is not a criticism, just an observation. My experience is that men do not respond enthusiastically to offers to listen, but often respond well to offers of help. For women, these two things are almost identical and an offer to listen is implicitly an invitation to ask for help. For the men I know, they definitely are not the same thing. An offer to listen seems like an empty gesture, an invitation to get emotional, which they may not want to do. An offer of help (eg. babysitting, grocery shopping) while they may still reject it, has more meaning and impact. I know it seems like splitting hairs, but I have noticed it's a surer way to avoid their defenses.
As a guy, I feel very lucky to have the group of guy friends I have. Years ago our predominant form of interactions were just partying(drinking), video games, and arguing. We were hyper competitive in a really mean spirited way with each other and would often gang up on each other. We have all done allot of self work over the last few years. It was a slow process of change but the results have been profound. We now try to openly talk through all of our feelings with each other, if two people get into a disagreement others help moderate to get them to open up about the deep underlying misunderstanding or resentment at play. We check in on each other over the phone. We call each other just to chat. We let each other know how someone is doing if they are having a hard time. For example, if someone goes through a break up we all coordinate giving them a call to check in and let them vent. We let talk about our fears and insecurities, we make space for anyone to cry if they need to. Last time when we all got together, after a few games of beer pong, we tried an exercise of sitting in a circle and going around being honest with each other and emotionally vulnerable about what we feel about each other, what we hope each other will work on, and what our friendships mean to us. We have gotten allot more comfortable with physical contact and affection: hugs (real hugs not chest bumps), hand squeezes ect... We do mini interventions with each other if we think that one of us was being aggressive or toxic especially towards women. It has immensely improved the health and quality of all of our dating lives with women I should add. There was no magic key to this evolution. It was just a slow process of people getting more comfortable being emotionally vulnerable with each other, telling each their how much we cared about our friendships and how much we wanted the best for each other, encouraging each other to be better especially in unlearning bad patterns with regard to how we approached women. Oh, and we did several group phycedelic trips in the woods! I think that really helped get the ball rolling on our emotional evolution. I think a positive masculinity that works for some men still includes a celebration of how much you can lift, how much you can drink, how good you are at video games, and positive developments in your dating life; but without being aggressive, without being so competitive, wishing well on other people, being emotionally vulnerable, being emotionally supportive, relating to women as equals with their own autonomy, and trying to help in whatever way you can to intervene against men who show signs of trying to assert power over women.
Could be estrogen in water. Start drinking beer and whiskey.
This is very underrated, it's a lot of work to get there and it's very heartening to see it happen. Congrats!
@@johnj6743 Great one, did you think of that thanks to Brain Force?
Clay, is that you?
That's awesome :0 !
I'm a straight guy who can be pretty feminine, and this was my experience. I grew up and continue to live in the south where gender roles can be pretty strong. I didn't get along with almost anyone because I didn't like hunting and fishing or wresting and whatnot. I didn't have any real friends that I really enjoyed being around until I was in high school. I met some people at school and some people online. all of my friends were men and I was pretty awkward around women so I only had some acquaintances in that department. I was pretty depressed at the time due to a lot of childhood issues but I never sought help and relied on my own destructive coping mechanisms to get by. I didn't want a therapist because I was under the belief that I was ok and didn't want to risk getting a bad therapist and being weak for needing meds or therapy. Growing up every time i was not alone felt like a Pokémon encounter. I was always picking and choosing what to say and do to not appear feminine and thus not weak. It felt like I wasn't allowed to be myself and like there wasn't a world where I could be. Even among friends, most conversation was just bsing and some times with certain people there would be a kind of bullying as someone tried to establish a higher rank in the pecking order. my friends at school mainly bsed, but those I met online had this weird mix. this is how things were for a long time until something strange happened. one night me and my closest online friends stayed up all night and talked about our past traumas. It was a moment of bonding I had never experienced before. It was such a legendary occasion that we hence forth referred to it as "that night". It sounds general but everyone knew what it meant. these things never happened among my school friends but as time went on these "nights" occurred every once in a while even as the friend group changed and evolved. I realized that all of my friends were sad whether they said it or were too afraid to admit it. All of us were sad, depressed, and just lost. I survived off of these "nights" alone until I had one of these nights with a newer member of the group. She had more in common with me than any of the friends I had ever met and for once I was comfortable sharing everything. I had never gone in so much depth and revealed as much as I had that night and neither had she. we started dating shortly after and we have been together for eight months. I would have never realized I was as feminine as I am of it weren't for her making me feel so comfortable with myself even if I feel like I still have to hide it Infront of most people still.
For a man to confide in another man of all that had happened takes an extreme amount of trust. As a guy, I would occasionally over hear women complain about small insignificant things, gush about their life stories in public, and they could even cry and people would feel sorry for them. All of this was down right unimaginable. as a guy you couldn't complain. you had to man up and shut up, and crying was seen as weak and childish. when I was in high school it felt like the slightest tear could be the end of your entire existence and manhood. the amount of things that women will get assistance with is astronomical compared to men. if some girl ran off with her boyfriend and came home crying sometime later she would be welcomed with open arms. if a boy did this he would be slapped for being an idiot and in some cases would not be allowed back home. If you ever see men talking about women being weak, one of the things above is probably the reason. However, even if we don't always like to admit it, guys have feelings too but most of us feel uncomfortable sharing them. There are plenty of men out there who feel like they just can't be themselves or express their feelings.
As trans girl I want to tell you that I and a lot of girls are tired of this toxic masculinity model that many boys desperately try to fit in. I love feminine boys, you guys are so much opened, funny and just feel more real. You are so cute when you are just being real selves and not trying to pretend to be machos society expects you to be. I know that it's easy to be said, but I kinda understand your struggles... You know, I used to be treated like boy too and I know that society treats boys who are more feminine like shit, especially older people and other guys are the most cruel. But what I have noticed is that most of those men who force you into this macho persona, aren't living a happy lifes themselves and their sense of masculinity is very fragile. They are mostly so anxious and have so many insecurities that they perceive as simple thing as showing emotions or having pink element in their wardrobe as threat to their entire manhood and that's why they project it on others judging them harshly. But you know what is it sign of? Cowardice, something that is pretty much opposite to masculinity. If bravery is one of measures of masculinity I would say that boys who appear more feminine - talk about their feelings despite social stigma, show emotions, wear what they feel comfortable with and not what looks manly, are much braver than all those so called "alpha males" who just stick to status quo. I feel bad for you boys. But I will share a secret with you, I and many of my friends would rather go on a date with a catboy who crossdresses than with muscular 100% testosterone Alpha Male
the problem with catcalling is that it usually starts when we are girls. The way you react to male attention as an adult woman is very different to get that attention when you are 11 years old.
+
Me being catcalled for the first time at 15 for wearing a skirt by a man who looks 25 with a full beard. Seeing my 16 year old friend have her skimpy pyjama shorts be commented on by her dad's 40 year old friend. It goes on. Too young ☹️
Based statement
Catcalling and related stuff is definitely more complicated than a lot of people make it out to be. I'm a dude, but there's definitely a pretty clear difference in my head between a random COVID nurse saying the skin on my shoulder is tight (?) and that must mean I work out, vs four random girls halting whatever they were doing before to fake-flirt with my fourteen-year-old self while I'm walking to a friend's house with a backpack full of D&D sourcebooks. And of course that difference is definitely highlighted by the time I told that second story in a comment on a blog post about catcalling and the first response was some chucklefuck asking "were they hot".
Totally! My first time getting catcalled I was in middle school walking down town. He was a middle aged man, and there were several adult bystanders. It freaked me out so much. I was all alone and I felt like I had a target on my back. I kept looking over my shoulder to make sure he wasn't following me. As an adult, I can't help but speculate about his motivations. It was technically a "compliment", but I have a hard time believing the goal was to make me feel good about myself. On the contrary, his goal was to send a message, and I heard it loud and clear: That my body wasn't mine; it was his to comment on and to pick apart at will. He sadistically got off on watching me as that powerlessness and fear sunk in.
A lot of allies make the mistake of thinking that listening and empathizing in private is the best way to show support. Don't get me wrong; that is very meaningful, but on that day, it would've meant the world to know that the bystanders had my back, and that I wasn't alone; that I was safe. But they all kept it moving, and so did he. I've made this mistake as a white person, but I won't make it again.
oh my gosh. You just expressed weird confused thought clusters I've had in my brain in an extremely comprehensive and entertaining way
Good, good... Now, please, turn left and go very far in that direction.
She's good at that
God, yes, I've been thinking about this exact same stuff a lot lately, but it's impossible to bring it up because people immediately jump to the conclusion that you're a woman-hating incel - which is ironic, because jumping to the conclusion that someone's a man-hating feminazi whenever someone brings up anything remotely feminist is literally exactly what the woman-hating incels do.
Like, maybe we shouldn't call these incels "basement-dwelling virgin" as an insult, because even if those specific people deserve to be ridiculed, that insult normalizes the idea that a man's worth is determined by how extroverted and sexually active he is. Which is, you know, toxic masculinity? The thing we're against? But saying that immediately results in, "Why are you defending the harassment of women??"
I was thinking about trying my hand at a video on the subject, but she did a better job than I possibly could have.
@@KevinCow Exactly, I've been in the MRA for about 4 years and then I left the online spaces because, even if my community wasn't right-wing, I really couldn't stand the centrism and the unhelpful anti-feminism. Now I still have lots of problems though, what we need to do is try to establish a new men's liberation movement like the one in the 60's
@@KevinCow been yelling at certain subgroups of femminsm since at least 2016 over this.
I am a male femminst myself, but God does my blood boil at those "yesallmen" posts.
Like fuck you, what am I supposed to do? Stop existing or something?
"I live in fear" while smiling is perhaps the most relatable thing I've seen in a long time.
I laughed then shook my head in horrified sorrow.
Regarding women not liking when men open doors for them:
I remember when I was little and my Dad told me that it is polite to open doors for people. So that’s what I did. I even held doors open for men and when he noticed, he told me that I should only open doors for women. I asked him why, and he didn’t really have an answer. Ever since then, I’ve been holding doors for everyone. Sometimes I’m standing there holding the door for a solid minute or two.
Anytime a woman comes up to me and complains that I hold the door for them, I literally look them in the eye and say, “calm down, I do this for everyone. You’re not special”. I kind of get why it can get annoying to have the door held for you, but at the same time, be happy someone is holding a door open for you. It’s a polite gesture and shouldn’t be looked at too deeply in my opinion
I'm a man and I'd prefer someone holding a door for me than slamming it in my face. It's just rude. Sometimes you have your hands full and it's awkward to open the door with your feet / shoulder so it's just basic kindness at that point. Don't let edgy people allergic to kindness dissuade you from being a good person, you are appreciated.
I appreciate your post. Unfortunately, it doesn't always come from somewhere good. I'm a woman and I also open the door for everyone, and some men get quite offended that a woman is opening the door for them! One man also got angry at me that I paid the bill for both of us and he stopped speaking to me. As if only 'poor little weak women' should be taken care of.
@@jazmorgann Years of social expectations are hard to counter, in the end it all comes down to choice, whether to let these reactions get to us and adapt in order to fit in, or do what feels right regardless of those insecure reactions. Sadly, receiving kindness from women for a lot of men is shameful because they think they should appear (key word) strong and self-sufficient 24/7, and that they should take on women's burdens as well. I admit even despite being aware of social stigma, sometimes it feels uncomfortable to be on the receiving end of accommodation, there are a lot of "I'm supposed to" thoughts. Even if nobody is judging you, you sort of judge yourself out of habit, but lashing out on the other person is just rude because it's not their fault.
Holding doors open can be very nice, but often just pressures people into doing this little sprint so the one holding the door doesn't have to hold the door for too long. Its complicated
never change, my veteran door holder, never change
As a man, I feel very targeted, and I thought I should comment on a 30 minute video that was posted 5 minutes ago.
Noice
GOOD point
@that one radfem when was the last Time you were into chromosomes???
I often watch these longer vids at 2x speed, so I can comment within 20 minutes
This topic is actually about me.
"How did Rome fall again? Was it... THE GAYS?"
I'm not even thirty seconds in and I'm already in stitches.
you know those super gay Germanic tribes :p lol
that being said, homosexuality wasnt as frowned upon in a lot of major civilizations in our history. the reason being, they didnt think women were their equals. so, theyd have purely sexual relationships with women, but have emotional and intellectual relationships with men (which often led to sexual encounters)..
@@pezcore2142 "HELLO BOYS, DO YOU WANT ANY OF THIS POWERFULL VISIGOTH DICK RIGHT NOW!"
how rome fell, probably.
The irony is that IIRC, the Romans at the time WERE blaming THE GAYS.
According to Jordan Peterson and Camille Paglia, yes. lol
I thought we established the fall of Rome was Riley J. Dennis’ doing
the different colors of “urine” is such an important detail here
edit:........this is my legacy now
Yeah one of those was chem-piss orange ha
That's valid hun
Also, why does one have no lid? omg
I thought the same thing!!! Lmao
May I ask why?
When I was learning Japanese, one detail that initially shocked me was that men are often described as "carnivores" or "herbivores" (most often by women, interestingly) in much the same way we might use "alpha" and "beta" in English. They also have a special term for a man that escorts a woman home at night ostensibly to keep her safe, but really in the hopes of pressuring her into something: okuriookami, literally "escort wolf".
The "male implies threatening" thing really is depressingly omnipresent, and I wish I had any idea how to change that beyond "tell the shitty men to stop being shitty".
Shitty men will always be shitty :(
If the male is the wolf then the woman must be the sheep, right? The poor dumb frightened sheep.
How about you tell these dumb frightened sheep/women to stop being such pussies and learn to not be a victim all the time?
Some guy walking a girl he likes home in the probably forlorn hope that she will give him a kiss or invite him in for coffee does not equate to any type of threatening behaviour unless you are a total effing lunatic whackjob.
WTF are you talking about? Are you confused that other languages have words for specific behavior? You know. Like "alpha"? Yes, it's a different language. So the word is different.
@@mnschoen are you talking to me? nothing you said made any sense at all. This is like a month old mate.
Well, hope you like her recent video on Twilight-
[ In case you didn't see it, she talked about that "carnivore/erbivore" more in depth :) ]
It's really important that we address the final point in this video. I have been so angry for years that all of the energy behind changing men's role in society for the better was co-opted by shitlords.
Where's my movement using Mr. Rogers (Fred or Steve, both are relevant) as our role-model? I'm just sayin'.
Just yesterday, I was thinking there are basically two role models at opposite ends of a spectrum (or maybe at right angles from one another, not sure) for men: Fred Rogers and James Bond. If you strip all the 1950s-era value cruft off Bond, but keep the strength, purpose, competence, and replace the moral compass with Fred Rogers'...you kinda get Steve Rogers. It's not perfect, but, I think it sorta works.
But yes. I'd be happy to build a movement around Fred Rogers as a positive male role model.
@@smspain09 Me too.
Nick Offerman and Terry Crews are generally good examples too. They're not flawless (being human and all), but they're willing to admit when they're wrong. And that's just a really important adult trait to have regardless of gender, but especially for groups like men who are negotiating changing social roles.
!!! Bob Ross!!!
John Mulany is the new male role-model
"I integrated into female social groups, and I found that they provide a kind of communal support and overt affection that male social groups generally just don't."
As a dude who cried within the last month because I didn't feel like I had anyone I could share my feelings with, yepppppppp.
I hope you can find a group that truly supports you
I really hope you'll find support soon around you
hey yuki, you deserve that kind of friendship. it's scary as hell being emotionally vulnerable and knowing you might be rejected. i hope your friends are strong enough to lift you up, and i hope you can do the same for them.
Yep, most of my friends are girls as I guess it’s just a much “friendlier” sort of dynamic. I’m a gay guy and I just have this weird fear of having close male friends as there’s always this strange societal barrier stopping us from being close friends, either from us being two guys or me being gay somehow having to do with it. Whereas with girls there’s just so much less pressure to put up arbitrary boundaries with that sort of stuff I guess? Just feels like we’re made to feel unnatural to have an emotionally invested friendship with other guys, I hope that changes soon, I’ve lost some great friends from that sort of stigma.
I hear you man, you're not alone in feeling that way.
I think most guys feel that way to some extent, but none of us feel like we can bring it up. It sucks.
Another thing men should be taught is that they are valid and amazing as individuals. We shouldn't judge the value of men on whether or not they are in a relationship. They're just as valuable being single. We need to not tie mens worth to relationships or sex
That's sorta what capitalism was meant to do. Now that capitalism is exclusive and gated, the common men have no way of defining worth outside of romance.
As a woman who has experienced the impact of such beliefs on guy friends and boyfriends later, I totally agree with that. Your experience and value as a human being should stop being literally weighted upon the number of your sexual/romantic partners
This🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
@@charliekahn4205 society may make it look like men’s only value is in romance, but there’s so much more to be motivated by
Good luck telling this to feminist
I will confess something:
I used to be a guy who was always shouting “I have it worse because I’m a man!” I won’t go into too much detail, all I’ll say is now, I’m a lot more happy and confident with myself, so I’m able to look at the world more rationally. Also, most of my friends, acquaintances and mutuals are either women, and/or biologically female. So I’ve learned so many things from them, and the experiences they’ve shared with me (many of which are heartbreaking)
What I do wanna say, though, I was never “like most guys.” I never was into sports, I preferred to talk about my feelings (and was rarely taken seriously), and I’m on the asexual spectrum, so I never fit into the the ol’ “men are constantly thinking about sex!!! Sex sex sex!!!” Which made me feel highly emasculated.
Also… another thing: I got into an abusive relationship, and that set me back so far in my life. I tried to move on in a healthy way, but alas, most of my “friends” just made fun of me and told me to “stop whining” and “just move on.” But… I couldn’t. I needed validation (but didn’t get any for many years). Also, even my “friends” who were women would constantly make fun of me for being socially awkward around women, for not being able to get dates, for “letting” my ex abuse me, etc. so… for years, I was stuck in a state of constant trauma
By no means am I using this to say “so yeah I had it worse!” No, not at all! I’m also not gonna absolve myself of responsibility for any sexist attitudes I previously held. But I will say, what helped me become a better person was not “magically letting it go and accepting it wasn’t about me,” no, what helped was finding women who validated me and allowed me to feel safe describing my experience…which in turn made it easier for me to wanna listen to their experiences and do what I could to help them
Also… I do wanna add, many times I’ve been accused of being an “incel” just because I’m…going through a rough time…? Like… telling me I’m a “violent extremist” because I… am feeling sad and lonely…? That’s… yeah, damaging
@Camarade Toff thanks a bunch; yeah, like sure, I don’t wanna validate men just saying horrible things, but like… when a man is at his lowest point, he shouldn’t just be kicked when he’s down. If he’s trying to talk about his feelings, and something comes out the wrong way…he should be allowed to correct that mistake and STILL be validated for his trauma
You have perfectly described my experience. Do you mind if I screenshot your comment?
@@AW-EV-and-FTM yeah sure!!
“You’re oppressed because of your class, not your gender, so just join the revolution, overthrow the bourgeoise, meow meow” absolutely killed me, especially when followed by “Now I can see a couple of problems with that”
"Ackchyuallllly...Kropotkin." -Some manarchist, probably
While I know that (with the exception of some orthodox marxists) the exclusive focus on class differences as the main cause of societal tensions has been generally rejected (and even ridiculed), I've yet to hear a good reason as to - why?
“Contrapoints *for HIM*”
OMG 😂
I burst out laughing, probably her best joke (at least for me)
Oof~ 🤣
I believe it was a culture Kings podcast episode where one of the hosts, a black man, talked about how a former ex of his, a white woman, would argue more with him in public than in private. Because, in those situations, he'd be more likely to concede points because the sight of a white woman getting upset and angry with a black man can turn that environment against the man off the bat. If he got loud or mad at her, no matter what she said or did, people would see her as the victim, and him as dangerous. It's fucked up that someone would know that, and do that, using public hostility towards men (and black men especially) to win an argument you'd use, but it's an environment that sees women as victims and men as dangerous that allows such a manipulator to succeed at all.
@Shep VanDelay Placing blame on him isn't really helpful though. Because it's normal to be angry and loud in some situations. I don't think the restraint you suggest solves any problems but covers up the underlying issue here.
Miikka Karhu This is just starting to sound like misogynist rhetoric.
Julia Mimi I agree with all of your comment.
I'd argue that this also works with white men. A man raising his voice against a woman in public will always be perceived that way. But the fact that he connected that reaction with the color of his skin is definitely a bad sign...
@@AddBowIfGirl I have experience with the kind of situation he was talking about, dealing with an actual narcissist - having abuse turned around on you is seriously psychologically damaging
Being a Trans boy being told "hello boys" gave me ALOT of joy
Thanks sir. As a fking cis guy, i fking love my trans homies 😍😍😍
Awww as a cis gender woman i love all my fellow men... regardless of biological sex or sexual orientation ❤️
Love that for you, good sir 😀
As a cis guy I speak for all of us when I say: gnarly bro
As a cishet man, you damn right good sir
Natalie: I'm pandering to the male gaze.
Me: *sweats in lesbian*
Me: *sweats in male gays*
@@Volvandese Sweet male tears
Same
Sameeee
Sweats in bisexuality 🙂 such a beautiful ladyyyyyy
if i was alone in an elevator with a dude and he suddenly started whistling row row row your boat, i would freak the f out and assume this was the prelude to a murder scene.
As a man, what then should I do?
Lol coward
@@Cruelty-Torture the thing is, you really can't do much but understand us and indeed, establish something like a movement alongside feminism to -well- help the men. all we ask is to not get assaulted and be respected, and since many of us had horrible experiences, you can't expect us to trust a person at face value. we need to change the system hand in hand. as always, there's no easy magic trick answer. feminism will only fully work when men start to see harassment as their problem too
@@jacycorn aye, that be fair enough, in all honesty, if I found myself in that situation ( and I have) I just leave the elevator n take the stairs. As I'd not want to contribute to someones anxiety. But, if there was a way to set someone at ease. Id be happy to learn/ do rather than avoid people if could.
@@Cruelty-Torture nothing will calm anxiety of someone, we just have too "wait and see" or leave in that case; you, as nothing specific to do than being respectful...
Contra: I feel like I'm serving a little, oh...
Me: dark Carmen Santiago
Contra: Redpilled Carmen Santiago
Close enough
Natalie: If there are any women still watching this video, I'm really sorry about all of this.
Us lesbians: we're good, thanks.
hey I may be a straight woman, but I'm not blind!
As a bisexual women, I can say I'm good too
I‘m asexual and this comment and replies reminded me that other people may feel like that about a woman in lingerie.
As trans girl I can say I am fine
Cis straight girl here and I was asking myself questions at that point. 😊❤
never expected a trans women to point out a legit problem i go through alot as a 6'3 stoic faced black man i do run into a lot of people who are scared of me not just white before i even talk and its often brought up '' bruh i thought you was a gangsta ass nigga when we met'' i even had a potential relationship fall flat do a lot of things but the fear that i could potentially do harm shaped it and at that time i felt like i was in a era where i just had to be a man about the situation in the end of it just end up crying like a bitch and becoming a hermit cause as much as i want to be a the urmuf MAN it really was i dont have many examples of good men in my life and if i didnt for long and i just wanted to prove i could be a decent lover to who i ever i feel in love with :D but still appreciate the food for thought
Hey I know this reply is a bit late but I just wanted to say that I hope you're doing okay!
@@dogedoger2606 yeah im good you?
@@bricecass2208 good to hear, I'm doing fine! Just checking in ;) From reading your comment it seemed you were having a tough time
@@dogedoger2606 such is life i suppose
From my own experience I’m trying really hard to root out my own subconscious racism, I’m a white man and I got robbed and had my family threatened by two people of color, I have PTSD from that incident and I’m trying my best every day since then to root out the racist thought in my head that whenever I see a tall black guy in the street I tense up and get ready for an altercation. I know that that person isn’t a threat, but now that I have ptsd from that incident, my trauma flares up whenever I see a black man walking towards me. It’s very shitty of me to even think like that and I’m trying consciously to address it and change it. I can’t help it but it happens and the horrible part about it is that I know if it was a white person who did this to me I know that if I saw a white person in the street it wouldn’t affect me. I’m so sorry you have to go through this man it’s not your fault just thought I’d share my story with you. What happened to me isn’t black peoples fault and I shouldn’t make other black people feel like it’s their fault that I’m uncomfortable. it was two dickheads and even though I have a “reason” to be tense around black people it doesn’t mean that it’s ever right so again I’m so sorry this happens to you man I hope you have a good day
being a trans guy, theres nothing more gender affirming than that "my boys"
As a cis guy, I 100% agree with you.
As a white male, who never fell down alt-right hole, hearing that grindr sound and "my boys" is amazing and funny at the same time.
Yeah I can't imagine your experience but it does feel nice and I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that. Solidarity.
@John Williams bruh
@John Williams He already is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've seen too many horror movies to have any adult person whistling row your boat be anything but menacing
There is no way out of here... It will be dark soon....
I don't care if I was 8 ft tall and 400 pounds of pure muscle. If I'm in an elevator with one other person and they start whistling row your fucking boat I'm going to break down in tears and pray for my life.
Or, you know, ask him about his kid? I'm "a head above a fridge and just as wide" guy. I definitely spent 5 years walking around with nursery rhymes stuck in my head. Then Frozen songs. And now Shrimp.
Point is, people have all sorts of reasons for their weird shit.
I was just like "ahhh what?" lol too true
LOL Yep. Scary. If someone starts whistling (that), it's quite spooky.
It is such a hard pill to swallow, that if we, as men, want to have a better life, we need to build it for ourselves.
The only solution you have, as a man, is indeed NOT to complain online by rageposting about how unfair life is and how terrible your issues are.
And that's really difficult to accept! Because when you look at the crux of social reforms, the way minds are changing in our society, the way issues are being brought to light, a lot of it comes from various groups of people... rageposting about their issues! Constantly! And feeling justified for it!
And so when you see men's issues being brought up in a similar fashion, and then being absolutely slammed, the obvious response is "so it's okay for them, but not for me?"
It's frustrating, it's infuriating, it's unfair. But that's just the way it is. Today, if you post about how life is unfair as a man, you just feed a gigantic gender war machine that wants nothing more than to grind you into a fully radicalized member of society. Imo the same is true about any group really, but that's beside the point.
Point is, your only choice is to find a way to be better. Inspire yourself, inspire your peers, and one day build a community that is strong enough to help other men, a community that will help guide your sons and their sons once you are gone.
A system changes from the ground up, don't wait for some politician, or some make believe revolution to do the work for you. Build your own little slice of heaven, what society at large does is not your concern, you'll go mad trying to wrestle with the idiots of the entire world