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Zen Conversion Magic: _A neighboring priest scolded his students for abandoning his school to study with Bankei, and yelled at Bankei, saying that his teacher could perform miracles such as walking on water and signing his name from the other side of a river. Bankei replied, "My miracle is that when I'm hungry, I eat, and when I am tired, I sleep."_ That got me... 😂🤪 Thanks for the splendid video, Doug! 🙏
Lord buddha has used his supernatural abilities whenever required to tame a person or a set of people (including gods and demons) whom he has known have had the ability to attain enlighten if converted. But never for any personal gains whatsoever. "Twin miracle" or "Yamaka Maha Pelahara" you mention is something special as only a Buddha can perform it due to the scale and complexity of it.
@Drock You can absolutely ask Tara for help getting a job. You need a job to be able to have a stable dharma practice and benefit other beings, after all.
Unfortunately I miss the mention of all the paranormal, supernatural powers that Buddha clearly stated already in Digha Nikaya 2 as fruits of Meditation, like going out of body, walking through walls, "multiplying themselves and becoming one again", "flying cross-legged through the sky", clairvoyance etc etc. And when reading some of the comments here, it strengthens my suspicion that some people cannot bring these teachings in accordance with their beliefs and our scientific world views today, and therefore preferably silently ignore them. And yes, I am also aware that such feats of supernatural powers are regarded as a problematic motivation for meditation by some people and thats the reason they do not talk about them. But perhaps best is to do not theorize about such things and do more practice in meditation, and discover what happens. Still a good video Doug!
That’s right TeeJay. Though the Buddha does claim a certain number of supernatural powers, the point of this ‘magic’ is that it shouldn’t be used for conversion purposes. Or at least that’s how I read the early suttas.
Are these to be taken literally or figuratively? We generate metta and spread it throughout the world although in reality there is no visible physical representation of metta - only our mind state and subsequent behaviors influenced by the meditation - so is flying or walking through walls a meditative technique used to mold something like our perception of form or maybe to serve some other purpose but doesn’t require literally walking through walls or flying in a manner that can be observed by society at large outside of our subsequent behaviors generated by the meditation?
And super normal abilities are the bi- products of samadhi , it is said that if a practitioner has achieved 4th jana , he can be able to manipulate 5 elements. Because , we don't know doesn't means that there isn't any possibility. Hence, Psychic abilities, levitation, producing fire ,water ,wind and disappearing in thin air are not abilities that Buddhist practitioner should aim for but these abilities are nothing but the qualities of our own mind .
@@IAn0nIIt’s literal. There are plenty of supernatural phenomenon in Buddhism. The divine eye is one example. The ability to read minds. These are all literal. Many westerners who are atheist are completely cut off from understanding the metaphysical, and spiritual elements of Buddhism. As a long time meditator I assure you these divine qualities are real.
I'm reminded a bit also of chapter 7 of the Lotus Sutra, which involves a city made of illusory magic. The city was made by an enlightened guide for the sake of followers who were tired and needed a brief rest on the path to enlightenment. There, Magic is used casually, but only to assist followers on the path of enlightenment by giving them rest, not to convince them via magical means.
Thank you fellow traveler. Being a monk in Thailand at the moment, I am often confronted with white, blood, black, hill tribes magic here. I usually ignore all this as it is a dead end. But it is a big part of the social, cultural and spiritual life here, even among my fellow monks.
@@2CheekyRabbits Hello. It is the same as everywhere. Bear in mind I do not have access to masters of each style of magic. Also, I am in the farm lands, not in a big modern (westernized city). For a standard Thai person, it is mostly about luck and protection from Ghosts and bad spirits. Or the other way around for black magic. Most problems are partially seen as having a spiritual/luck/spirit cause. Monk magic revolves a lot around curing people and miracles. New houses, cars etc are blessed and inscribed with designs in white chalk. Trinkets for luck , holy water , offerings in the hope of getting a lucky next life. Very often they hope to be born as westerners (Europeans). As for the hill tribes magic, around here are Hmong people who consider that you are born with a fixed amount of blood and thus use blood magic. This is only the information I managed to gather after 10 years here, it is obviously incomplete.
What I learned: Buddhism acknowledges the existence of the Siddhis Buddha did not condone the use of siddhis to sway others' free will or as an attempted shortcut on the Work that the Buddha thought was most important.
Being outside the sight of the gods means to have the practical wisdom to avoid conflict with people who insist, usually by default, that the supernatural is accessible or manipulable by us. The magic is to avoid getting wrapped up in talking about unprovable forces while still pushing forward intellectually.
Again, Dough, thanks for making such a wonderful video. I'd think at least some of psychic abilities might indeed play a crucial role toward gaining enlightenment. In Sāmaññaphala sutta DN2, the six psychic abilities are included as fruits of mendicants on the gradual path. Of which the Three Knowledges (Tevijja) are said to be particularly useful, apparently used by the Buddha-to-be himself on the night gaining his great enlightenment. And the sixth psychic ability, the knowledge of destruction of āsava is lauded as the "highest" psychic ability leading to cutting off all the mental fetters that must be earned by his disciples prior to attaining arahantship.
Yes, it is clear that the Buddha believed there were certain psychic or what we might also term "magical" abilities that advanced practitioners might gain. But they were never the point of the practice, which was instead one of gaining nibbāna or the cessation of craving.
Everyone is actually doing magic all the time the magicians have awareness of it and then place intent onit. The world is full of disguise being with awareness is also to gain awareness of your abilities. Many put them on like clothes to perform an intention to cover up. You beings abilities are limitless super human and ancient Buddhism knows of this documents it controls it inside ancient wisdoms. To grasp for your abilities has its own outcomes for your secretes to become known to you like a lotus bloom unfurling it’s petals is a subtle path. But magic is everywhere and in all people they are made from the original creation something made from nothing. Creators makers, manifestées, how you chose to tread on earth with your power is your journey that will lead you to the many faces of earth.
@@michaelthomas6280 Beware of the Neo-Zen and Advaita junks that enlightenment is an egocentric, delusional trip. I did lots of such and have gone over in my early days. Without having enlightenment as goal one doesn't even know where to start to uproot defilements and associated egoism.
Only the last abilitiy (the ability to rid urself off the fetters) plays a crucial role towards gaining enlightenment. The first five abilities are considered "mundane" and could sometimes be considered a distraction on the path towards enlightenment.
As the magical elements are kept quiet or explained as obvious metaphor in western circles to protect the narrative of buddhism as secular/scientific religion, i was wondering to what extent this is happening in "westernized" areas of East Asia
Historically I think it has, though as I point out in the video there is a pretty clear ambivalence in early Buddhism itself to ideas we might frame as "magic". Clearly there are some aspects of early Buddhism that involve supernatural aspects, but much of it turns away from that as well. It's complicated.
Thank you Sir to this episode on this topic. Sir I am eager to explore budha. Please make an episode on very famous book on budha written by Dr.B.R Anbedkar (Buddha and his Dhamma.
@@ReverendDr.Thomas i didnt say every buddha.Sorry if i have bad english.Obisly i meant Gautama Buddha. im still learning. Buddhism looks deep and intersting🙏.Thats why im in this channel.☸️☮️
Did he really reject Vedas or did he reject first half of the Vedas? Then followers rejected the rest? Since Buddha comes from Hindu family his teaching would be similar to last half portion of the Vedas. Towards the ends. Rejecting Varnashastra is hard if you don’t reject Vedas I guess. 🤷♂️
Baka Brahmā (literally "crane-Brahmā") appears in the Majjhima Nikaya, where he is a deity who believes that his world is permanent and without decay (and that therefore he is immortal), and that therefore there are no higher worlds than his.
Hello! I enjoy watching your videos, and thank you for sharing!!! 🙂 I have a question though I recently finished reading a book titled 'Buddhism plain and simple' by a zen priest in which it said 'He [The Buddha] never claimed to be a god or inspired by god, or to have access to any occult or supernatural power.' Although the texts shown in this video seem to suggest otherwise, does anyone know why this is?
Well I'm not sure why the Zen priest said what he did. Perhaps he didn't consider some of the claims in early Buddhism to involve "occult" or "supernatural" powers. Or perhaps he feels that those claims were interpolated into the texts at a later date. For myself, though I do understand that the Buddha seems to have made such claims, without being able to verify them, I leave them to the side as speculation.
Thank you Doug for making a video on magic, I have always been interested by these supernatural stories, and have myself just started to explore the fascinating world of magic and the occult. In my current understanding, the modern western magical system is built on Cartesian dualism, where there are the res cogitans (consciousness) vs. res extensa (extended world), similar to the Hinduism idea of Kshetrajna and Kshetra. In this framework, with the right method and intention, one can impress their internality onto the extended world, and this measures the power of a magician. So if one have this view, then it can be seen as Buddha's internal world is so strong and oppressive, that it crushes the internal worlds of all others that come before him, so they have no choice but to take shelter in Buddha's world, like a refugee whose home has been wiped away by a typhoon. Over time, they rebuilt their own world from the blueprint of the Buddha and eventually becomes as he is. In this way, the Buddha can be seen as a great magician, the destroyer of worlds, a great daemon who seeds himself into the hearts of men. The issue for me is in this way of viewing things, one is kept in an ever-ending struggle of me vs. others, my world vs. other worlds, my view vs. other views, where the more "powerful" one get, the further one stray away from the non-dual ideal, and therefore the possibility of liberation is diminished. So as I stare into Buddha, it's almost like his image is shifting between an angelic merciful teacher, and a cunning deceitful demon, and the whole thing is swirling like a visual illusion, I wonder what can I do about this?
I would just drop the Dualism in general my guy. The fact that there's a change between supernatural states signifies that you have some wrong view to the Buddah. The Buddha was a human, a person with feelings, thoughts, emotions, and his goal was to keep them from suffering due to their attachment to views based on the three poisons. Compassion is a very human thing. Seeing the Buddha as a teacher, not spirit, is likely the answer to your dilemma. See the man, hear his words, follow dharma and be compassionate to all sentient beings. Magic is the means of change, not like, a fixed worldview. Make sure the change is compassionate and skillful and you'll be fine.
@@DougsDharma No worries, I was playing with some ideas, thought it would entertain haha. Although I am indeed in a conundrum, and maybe you could help me. In your research, have you come across any stories of monks that left the Buddha after hearing the dharma, but later chose to come back? I would love to hear their journey/testament. Thanks again!
@@malaklanfear Hey, thanks for the advice! To see the Buddha simply as a wise human definitely strips away many delusional thoughts I have that spawned from my own greed for experience, it's a hard thing to let go of, but practice makes perfect. On the other hand, what do you think of the world view that comes with Buddhism, like rebirth, samsara, etc.? What about all the supernatural beings like spirits, devas and the likes?
@@dpsrush I didn't say simply a wise human. There's quite a few Mahayana sutras that speak of the supernatural elements of buddhas, however you can't lose the man in the wealth of knowledge. He was a man, and his motivations were human, and I can assume that that ability to connect with the suffering of beings in Samsara is only expounded by the enlightened state. It's a reductionist take to see him as only one or the other. Take a look at the Sangata Sutra if you are interested. It's a sermon the Buddha gave to gods, and those from other worlds. Fundamentally, I pratice the Dzogchen lineage, so I personally view the universe as inherently noetic, minds are created as just a product of dependant arising, those minds then take forms as determined by Karma, or merit if one also adopts a mahayana mentality. Those beings are just that, beings. They have their own sufferings, and are in need of being helped and liberated. Even gods suffer...and theirs seems the worst sort of suffering. I do not take a materialist view with buddhism. Materialistic views are only wrong if they're used to justify actions that cause suffering. I use the example of tinkerbell from the old Peter pan play. If there were beings that required belief to exist, would it be like denying water or food to those beings? Who wouldn't clap for the fairy? It's a personal view that all sentient beings are worthy of existence and liberation by the sheer act of existing unenlightened and suffering when the true nature of beings is inherently buddha. I did notice that you mentioned a greed for experience. That is a poison, but it's not that hard to fix. Resolve to devote yourself wholly to easing the suffering of beings on whatever experience you have and you will be fine. That's at its core is my view. At its most reduced, in a universe that is proven to be only mater without logos, Dharma helps one live happy, healthy, and without regret. Please, if you approach the occult, see it as it is. See spirits as they are: beings in need of liberation and friendship, Kindness and compassion. Though, something tells me there's way too many books on magic, gods, spirits and even fairies, for that materialism example to be the case here in this universe.
I've mentioned many citations from the Dhammapada over the years. I once thought about doing a video on it but there's just too much there to cover! Maybe eventually I can take a chapter or part of a chapter or something.
@@DougsDharma I have and read the Dhammapada but it’s always better when you have a wise commentator to help with understanding the literature, thank you so much 😊
About Twin Miracle, I have heard of an interesting theory or story which explains the mechanism how this magic works. It has to do with abhijñā and jhana. For citations, I could not provide literature work since it is just some theory of few practitioners I know who are going for jhana and abhijna. First, the Buddha entered the fourth jhana contemplating the nature of fire as a meditative subject, then his mind created the reality of fire. The result is flame coming out of air. Then, the Buddha entered fourth jhana contemplating the nature of water as a meditative subject, his mind created the reality of water. The result is drops of water coming out of air. Basically, when you are contemplating one meditative subject, you cannot manage the other. This mean you cannot create water if you are contemplating on the nature of fire. So, how did the Buddha manage to do Twin Miracle: flames and water drops at the same time? It said the Buddha had effective control over his mind. He had perfected his practices. So, basically he was entering the first, second, third, and fourth jhana on the nature of fire. Then, he got out of that jhana. Re-entered first, second, third, and fourth jhana on the nature of water. He repeated these process back and forth. His mind was a high speed CPU. He could enter such high jhanas in a short time. He was rapidly entering jhanas and getting out of them, entering them for different meditative subject, getting out of them, and so on. Even the Buddha's second disciple, Maudgalyāyana, could not enter (could not reach) jhanas as fast as the Buddha. It also explains the question: On what base, did Buddha regard Maudgalyāyana as the supreme disciple at psychic powers? Afterall, all of the followers of Maudgalyāyana could use supernatural powers. Why was he the best? It turns out the shorter the amount of time required to enter jhana and abhijn, the greater psychic power one holds. He can enter first to fourth jhanas for like three different kammatthana while the other disciples are still taking time to enter first jhana for one kammatthana. This further explains why the Buddha allowed only Maudgalyāyana to battle (naga) Nandopananda - you have to react fast. Although I do not have any supermundane powers or abhijna. I think it is pretty interesting to hear this mechanism behind the Twin Miracle. I hope you find some value too.
Hey Doug! Thanks for the videos and your dedication. I was wondering if you had read the Talaputa sutta (SN 42.2) and if you have what your thoughts on it might be. My teacher is in the Tibetan tradition and doesn't know much about the Pali canon, otherwise I would have asked her advice on this specific text. You always have measured and thoughtful views on the early tradition and I would love your take on this sutta. Thanks!
I was surprised that there was no mention of dharani in the video. I know in the description it says the focus is on ‘conversion magic,’ but for me I think of supernatural powers as one category and magic as another, and in the latter I think primarily of dharani and of mantra.
Yes, though dharani and mantras didn't play a large role in early practice, which is most of the focus of my videos. (Perhaps it's because of ideas such as those found in the suttas of this video).
@@DougsDharma oh, I didn’t realize that dharani weren’t considered early Buddhism. I know that historically mantra and guhyamantra developed later, but I thought dharani were contemporary with early suttas (but, also, I focus on Tibetan Buddhism so there is a lot about this that I don’t know).
@@DougsDharma that makes sense. I imagine them as simply being day to day necessities like, you’ve got to know how to shelter, how to heal illnesses, and protect yourself and some of those methods are what we would call “natural” (medicinal uses of rice milk, etc.) and some of them are what we would call magic (dharani), but either way they’re supports to the practice and not the main thing. (Of course, in later times, being a ngakpa or some other magical practitioner became an important thing, just as being a medical practitioner did, even though I believe those are both forbidden ways to make a living for early monks).
Have you done a video on the Four Bases of Power? According to my source, The Wings To Awakening by Thanissaro Bhikkhu there are actually six powers listed including levitation and mind reading. It seems to be a topic avoided by Buddhists in general but I would be interested in hearing your comments.
@@DougsDharma I agree but the powers are mentioned in the suttas. I wonder if they are a later addition. They do seem to be related to the topic of your video on Buddhism and Magic.
Right. At the time they weren't considered magic, FWIW. There is no evidence I'm aware of that they were a later addition, so perhaps they were relatively normal abilities of some sort that were mischaracterized. (E.g., lucid dreaming). Hard to say for sure.
@Doug's Dharma I came across your channel today. From the sermons I have heard before, I think I can answer your question in the video about Buddhism's stance on supernatural powers. "There are supernatural powers in Buddhism. However, from the records, Buddhist enlighteners who were in possession of these powers would only use it to humble non-Buddhists who also had supernatural powers and were drunk on their powers, thinking of them as the greatest thing ever. These supernatural Buddhists would show the latter their superior supernatural powers and then disdain the superior powers they had as "mundane and useless." Then, they would ask the Non-Buddhists, "even if my supernatural powers are superior than yours, I still think of it as useless. Should you, who have inferior powers than me, really be drunk on your inferior supernatural powers as the greatest thing?" After solving their drunkeness on the supernatural powers, then the supernatural Buddhists will teach them the path to enlightenment (Buddhist path) which doesn't need to rely on having supernatural powers. In short, supernatural powers in Buddhism are only used against those who are drunk on their supernatural powers. Show them even more superior supernatural powers, then disdain even those powers. That makes the supernatural powers drunkards realized how useless the powers are and once again entered the true path to enlightenment. Credit: The sermon from Ven. Prayudh Payutto.
@@DougsDharma Yes, though I forgot to tell u this in my previous post. From what I heard from the sermon, the humbling the drunkards using supernatural powers r what happened in the early records. In the later Buddhist records, there r uses of supernatural powers for the not-so-noble reasons, and the Venerable said it was because supernatural powers r popular among the believers during the ages of those records, that was why the preachers used them in sermons.
We do respect Buddhist academic scholars but we only receive teachings of unbroken enlightened master disciple lineage (which can be traced back to Lord Buddha) interpretation of teaching that has been pass down purely and has generated enlightened masters in every generation till today. As an ordinary being like me can interpret according to my limited information that i have gathered throughout my life , which is not necessary correct all the time, that is why in Buddhism Unbroken enlightened lineage interpretation is very important , if it wasn't then there would have enlightened Buddhist scholar's too.
At that time the World-honored One, from the fleshy crown of His head, sent out a sparkling flood of light rays and, amidst these rays, burst forth a thousand-petaled jeweled lotus. A transformed Tathāgata sat within this jeweled flower the crown of His head emitting hundreds of glistening light rays in all directions; Everywhere each light revealed all things as numerous as the myriad grains of sand in the Ganges. The Vajrapanis, Jewel in hand, lighted up the mountains, appearing everywhere within the vault of space; the great assembly beheld this with awe. Unable to hold on to their fears and desires, they sought the Buddha’s pity and aid and whole-heartedly hearkened unto the radiant Tathāgata atop the now-concealed crown of the Buddha’s head as he chanted this sacred Invocation.
It's funny how every religion says magic or sorcery is what other people do and what they do is true divine power. The Buddha, portrayed as becoming invisible, going through walls, flying, teleporting, being at two places at once and reading minds, this man condemns sorcery. Right!
Buddhism may be the Religion the closest to Philisophy. When one stipulates that nature is the earthen language of Universal Values, a question comes to the mind of many: so violence and competition between animals are parts of that concept; and the answer is yes. We have been given the ability to have access to the widest possibility of choices facing the widest opportunity of choices between the brightest coolest visions and the darkest shadows: it takes motivation to look for and find a path that suits us which can be a middle path! It is not easy when facing the abundance of temptations and possibilities on the internet, which is a needle in the hay stack, compared to what a creative Soul can get in touch with. The opportunity of travelling and journeying between extreme beauty and extreme darkness is only top of the tips if associated with motivated awareness. The searches of inner and outer gold have a lot in common contrary to common thinking!
This channel is great. There's plenty of mythology in Buddhism. That includes the idea of a "Buddha." They don't exist, not have every, but useful as a mythology to guide yourself. Other mythologies in Buddhism are: -Nirvana -Devas -Karma -Reincarnation -Buddha's story of becoming a Buddha -The Buddha. A real person, but most about the Buddha never happened. Just legends.
@@DougsDharma You're right. The Buddha as described in Buddhism, is mostly likely mythological figure but a useful fiction nonetheless. While a Buddha is more of a metaphor for somebody who is headed towards self-actualization it is still a powerful archetype for people to meditate upon in their practice. But compared to many other religious mythologies Buddhism tends to have more applicability to everyday life. It all depends upon what version of Buddhism you're speaking of as some are less consistent with reality. I have encountered, Buddhist who are superstitious such as elevating some physical item as a requirement for enlightenment to magical thinking about mantras similar to the new thought movement. I won't list any of the versions that are similar to this but you will find them all over the world. Many of them are very evangelical about it. They focus on proselytizing. Many even create a history that never happened, or is a misinterpretation.
@@matthewrousseau2982 Yes a real person. I don't dispute that. However there's no such thing as a "Buddha." You cannot become a "Buddha," because they don't exist That's the comment.
maya: ilusion, an illusionist. I remember that passage like, you can learn this things with meditation; as a result of meditation. But if you use it to deceive people you cant be a part of the larger buddhist community... In the historical sense, I can see how the buddha learnt all this stuff, I mean he was essentially a sadhu for nearly a decade..
Doug missed most important point. Who were magicians ? Why Gautam had to confront them specifically? It’s all in Gautam’s popular name Saka muni and Saka tribes connection to Aryans. Aryans also had philosophy that we call Zoroastrianism today. Word Magic comes from Zoroastrian priests Maga who were performing magics and are known for that from very early history. Aryans moved into Ganges region in large numbers around 1000 BCE. It’s certain that Maga were among them also. If you apply Avestan to Sanskrit language conversation formula Haxāmanis becomes precisely Sakamunih. Gautam was Saka Aryan. Persians on west used this term and Aryans of Ganges used same term in same time frame
So far as I know there isn't any good evidence that the Sakyans were Zoroastrian or knew about Zoroastrianism, though I know some have speculated about such things.
@@DougsDharma I learn a lot from you on Ancient state of Buddhism. As far as Saka/ Scythian history go there is proof. Kushan produced more coins of Aryan deities Zoroastrian than Buddhist. These are same as found in Saka home land. This Includes famous coin of Vasudeva dressed as Mega. Saka or Scythian history is full of what we call Zoroastrian and Vedics. These are modern names. Texila has Zoroastrian temple among Buddhist and Jain ruins. Mahayan formed in Eastren Persia. Tons of evidence there. Temple 18 at Sanchi is Zoroastrian type temple with raised fire alter. Vedic had fire pits opposed to raised alter.
@@mahasona3997 On Saka issue although we can never be 100% sure about one way or other. His name Sakamuni and place of birth Saket nagar are pretty close clues. Aryan presence in Ganges region is proven by genetic science in last 10 years. Saka is one of four major Aryan tribes Ishvanku tribe, I have not digged it. Not qualified to comment on it. I heard about it. Solar dynasties are Mithra or Mitra at centre as sun god. It’s top deity of Parthians. Parthians were Saka or Scythians. It’s only empire that can be called closed to Vedic empire. Many of Vedic gods appear on Parthian coins. Saka were barbarian for many. Greeks, Romans called them similar names. There are stories of Saka ridiculing Darius the great. Yet their DNA is major part of North Indian DNA. They were fully successful in India. Saka/Greek city of Sakala city (modern Sialkot) name has striking similarity with Saket As far as Brahmins go, there is not single proof of their existence in India before Gupta empire. All ancient tangible proof of Sanskrit are found west of Peshawar in East Persian lands. Which happens to be original home of Aryans and Saka
@@mahasona3997 Saka and their role in spreading East Persian or Eranshah gods in India and overall hold on philosophy is greatly overlooked and undermined. India’s national calendar is Saka calendar. Originally developed in Indo Greek era. Brought into Punjab by Parthians. Then taken to next level by Kushans. Buddhism didn’t became force outside South Asia until Mahayan came on scene. Times when Mahayan was getting formulated in Punjab, Kashmir Saka had full hold over social elites. We need to take upper layers off. It’s all there. Maga, all central Asian, East Persian deities gods, Aryans were influencing, controlling, coexisting, opposing, propelling at same time. So called natives of North India Naag people have archaeological evidence up to Kazakhstan. There is much more in history that is not discussed. Gandhran people were carving serpent with Budha and Jains, why? Naags are supposed to be defeated and opposed by Brahmins caste system. Story is different when we start analyzing the critical questions and relooking at evidence while zoning out of what’s written on paper
You know you won't believe I used to do mediation using sound or mantras. I have tapped 4 times in the future and seen accidents, and sick people before it happens. I don't know how it happens but it did. It only happened with one of a mantra of Durga also known as Tara also known as Bodhisatva or even Female Buddha. But after doing the mantra I was getting sick and started to hallucinate and was seeing some women following me, only I was seeing them not my family. Their face appears like they are in a state of meditation. I got scared and stop the mantra meditation.
What a coincidence , Magic in Buddhism connects with my project : 'Buddhist for Harry Potter against He who will not meditate ' . Donate with paypall ..... Seriously though, another great video with an original angle. I sometimes wonder if you project a modern concept, and start out disagreeing .But you'r so well informed, i find myself nodding along with your arguments 😅.
Hey doug. Hope you're doing alright. Can you please talk about being conscious/aware during bardo? Also can you simplify once I am in the bardo how do I control my next birth? P.S; I am missing your "hello-hello" start😉
The more I hear about the mystic parts of buddhism, the more I am turned away from it. I would love to think that their is a way out of the agonizing reality of Duhkha, but I've never fully believed in buddhism for the reason of it having all these mystical aspects. I agree with a lot more in buddhism than any other religion, and so it makes me sad and confused to see them performing rituals and talking about magic. To me, I believe in all that is scientifically proven, and none else.
@@DougsDharma what u call real is just a more convincing form of illusion...the highest understanding is nothing exists and nothing is happening...the realization below this is nothing matters and everything is meaningless...I am aware of forms of magic in thai and khmer buddhism...certain rituals and methods accompanied by mantra...things as simple as closing the mouth of an attacking dog so it can't bite...blessing water for a pregnant woman having difficult childbirth to spit the baby out easily after drinking the water...mantra and ritual to make rainfall...mantras to imbue copper takruts (inscrlbed with khmer khom script) to prevent any gun from firing...mantras to bless water to make all illness disappear...black magic like voodoo to make a nail sitting in ones palm enter the intestines of the enemy...I have 25 years experience with thai buddhism and have seen magic displayed with success several times...the goal is very simple...just to be beyond thought...no feeling...no image..nothingness...just pure consciousness...I have met monks who displayed hypnotizing a person for me...bad monk using love mantra in orange juice to give to girl who fell in love with him (he was later caught by villagers having sex with a woman in his kuti and they forced him to disrobe and leave the temple)...in old times (about 700 years ago in chiang mai) the lanna people had their own language and lots of magic...I have books full of their mantras and use them daily...looking at demonstrattion of preventing gun from firing...test is done by putting the takrut on a string and tying it around a chickens neck and then pointing gun slightly to the side and pulling the trigger...basically lots of monks have gotten involved in magic and have gotten into trouble thereby...it can be as dangerous as p*ssy itself or lead to making money and then disrobing and having sex...all of humanity in all religions there is corruption so it is all part of being human...those going up for more clarity and those going down by degrees for more details and suffering all by choice...only nirvana is permanent...all over conditiions of existence are temporary...even the suffering in the hells...it is for a period of time like a jail sentence and then one gets out for another experience
So if I have a decent argument with you and convince you that an idea is valid, is this magic? What does that mean for a parent and child? Stop, do not rush, let go of your anger, focus on your breath. One wonders whether this is magic, or, perhaps more likely just plain common sense?!
@@JohnDoe-fu4qd Buddha knew about the poisonous mushrooms, he made sure nobody else will eat, except him, he also made sure the host will not be acused of anything after his passing... ... so bizare and such a great heart, I always wonder why he did not refuse to eat and just dispose all those the mushrooms, he knew he will die.
I purchased a computer game that discusses the topic of magic, one called Baldur's Gate 3. They haven't finished making it yet, and I had the opportunity to talk to the community director and also other testers. After railing against them for making the mage hand the most powerful spell in the entire game, I complained that the cat familiar had no purpose because "meow" did nothing. The other posters laughed at me. Because if you used meow it would cause the goblins to look at the cat instead of the wizard. This allows backstabbing to happen.
The manner in which you discuss Buddha’s attitude on magic and miracles gives me the impression that you feel that the Buddha could, indeed, do these things. Is this correct? If so, this smacks of the christians claims that god COULD do this or that to demonstrate ‘His’ power/existence but simply chooses not to do so.
I tried to discuss such matters in a neutral manner in the video. As a secular practitioner I leave questions about supernatural claims and abilities to the side, as I don't find them useful.
Sir If you read this please response me After studying Buddhism and Hinduism and their history I would like to make you aware that Buddhism is far older than Hinduism and Hinduism is just a degraded version of Vajrayana brahch of Buddhism and this degradation occur from 1200 AD after islamic invasion of India started and people from Outside India gained some power after fall of Buddhist empires and I am damm sure that Hinduism is just a very very degraded version of Vajrayana Buddhism which just thrown buddha out of itself.
Hinduism precedes the birth of Buddha by a long time. Are you saying some Buddhist practices which are found in Hinduism are older than the Buddha? Please give sources. Anyhow the Dharma is timeless ❤️
🧡 If you find benefit in my videos, consider supporting the channel by joining us on Patreon and get fun extras like exclusive videos, ad-free audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂
📙 You can find my new book here: books2read.com/buddhisthandbook
唵嘛呢叭咪吽
ॐ मणिपद्मे हूं
Om mani padme hum!
🌷
Zen Conversion Magic:
_A neighboring priest scolded his students for abandoning his school to study with Bankei, and yelled at Bankei, saying that his teacher could perform miracles such as walking on water and signing his name from the other side of a river. Bankei replied, "My miracle is that when I'm hungry, I eat, and when I am tired, I sleep."_
That got me... 😂🤪
Thanks for the splendid video, Doug! 🙏
🙏 阿 弥陀佛 😇
Incidentally, are you VEGAN? 🌱
Great, love it! 😄😄
@@ReverendDr.Thomas
Yes. 🙂
@@xiaomaozen In your own words, define “VEGAN”. ☝️🤔☝️
some people can't eat when hungry or sleep when tired. so it is indeed miracle
Lord buddha has used his supernatural abilities whenever required to tame a person or a set of people (including gods and demons) whom he has known have had the ability to attain enlighten if converted. But never for any personal gains whatsoever. "Twin miracle" or "Yamaka Maha Pelahara" you mention is something special as only a Buddha can perform it due to the scale and complexity of it.
@outlawmold. Well said! The Twin Miracles were the sole ability of enlightened beings & performed by the Buddha for the benefit of the doubters.
@Drock You can absolutely ask Tara for help getting a job. You need a job to be able to have a stable dharma practice and benefit other beings, after all.
Always know a channel is legit and academic when they cite their sources. Interesting video, I'm happy this popped up on my recommended:)
🙏😊
Unfortunately I miss the mention of all the paranormal, supernatural powers that Buddha clearly stated already in Digha Nikaya 2 as fruits of Meditation, like going out of body, walking through walls, "multiplying themselves and becoming one again", "flying cross-legged through the sky", clairvoyance etc etc.
And when reading some of the comments here, it strengthens my suspicion that some people cannot bring these teachings in accordance with their beliefs and our scientific world views today, and therefore preferably silently ignore them. And yes, I am also aware that such feats of supernatural powers are regarded as a problematic motivation for meditation by some people and thats the reason they do not talk about them.
But perhaps best is to do not theorize about such things and do more practice in meditation, and discover what happens.
Still a good video Doug!
That’s right TeeJay. Though the Buddha does claim a certain number of supernatural powers, the point of this ‘magic’ is that it shouldn’t be used for conversion purposes. Or at least that’s how I read the early suttas.
Are these to be taken literally or figuratively? We generate metta and spread it throughout the world although in reality there is no visible physical representation of metta - only our mind state and subsequent behaviors influenced by the meditation - so is flying or walking through walls a meditative technique used to mold something like our perception of form or maybe to serve some other purpose but doesn’t require literally walking through walls or flying in a manner that can be observed by society at large outside of our subsequent behaviors generated by the meditation?
And super normal abilities are the bi- products of samadhi , it is said that if a practitioner has achieved 4th jana , he can be able to manipulate 5 elements. Because , we don't know doesn't means that there isn't any possibility. Hence, Psychic abilities, levitation, producing fire ,water ,wind and disappearing in thin air are not abilities that Buddhist practitioner should aim for but these abilities are nothing but the qualities of our own mind .
@@kalidawg116 he just said of the "mind". Metaphorical, not literal.
@@IAn0nIit was meant literally
@@opulentElephant11 do you believe there is a physical, literal mind?
@@IAn0nIIt’s literal. There are plenty of supernatural phenomenon in Buddhism. The divine eye is one example. The ability to read minds. These are all literal. Many westerners who are atheist are completely cut off from understanding the metaphysical, and spiritual elements of Buddhism. As a long time meditator I assure you these divine qualities are real.
I'm reminded a bit also of chapter 7 of the Lotus Sutra, which involves a city made of illusory magic. The city was made by an enlightened guide for the sake of followers who were tired and needed a brief rest on the path to enlightenment. There, Magic is used casually, but only to assist followers on the path of enlightenment by giving them rest, not to convince them via magical means.
Interesting, thanks Dialask!
Thank you fellow traveler.
Being a monk in Thailand at the moment, I am often confronted with white, blood, black, hill tribes magic here.
I usually ignore all this as it is a dead end.
But it is a big part of the social, cultural and spiritual life here, even among my fellow monks.
Yes, for sure!
What are the purposes of such magic?
@@2CheekyRabbits Hello.
It is the same as everywhere.
Bear in mind I do not have access to masters of each style of magic.
Also, I am in the farm lands, not in a big modern (westernized city).
For a standard Thai person, it is mostly about luck and protection from Ghosts and bad spirits. Or the other way around for black magic.
Most problems are partially seen as having a spiritual/luck/spirit cause.
Monk magic revolves a lot around curing people and miracles.
New houses, cars etc are blessed and inscribed with designs in white chalk.
Trinkets for luck , holy water , offerings in the hope of getting a lucky next life.
Very often they hope to be born as westerners (Europeans).
As for the hill tribes magic, around here are Hmong people who consider that you are born with a fixed amount of blood and thus use blood magic.
This is only the information I managed to gather after 10 years here, it is obviously incomplete.
Which part of Thailand are you in? May I ask which temple?
@@warsmith100 Thank you for such a thoughtful reply 🙏
"The only magic 💫 is taking the physical things of this world 🌎 and turning them into Love" 💛
🙏😊
This was a very good talk and enjoyable. Thank You.
My pleasure!
What I learned:
Buddhism acknowledges the existence of the Siddhis
Buddha did not condone the use of siddhis to sway others' free will or as an attempted shortcut on the Work that the Buddha thought was most important.
Yes, that’s my understanding.
Thank you Sir very well explain...Stay healthy, Live long and keep us enlightened!
🙏😊
I super appreciate this dude sharing his insight.
Glad it was helpful, Keith!
Good to see it all worked out well for you . Thanks for all the generous information.
No worries, Chris! If you're talking about the fire, this video was recorded beforehand. But yes, things will work out OK!
Being outside the sight of the gods means to have the practical wisdom to avoid conflict with people who insist, usually by default, that the supernatural is accessible or manipulable by us. The magic is to avoid getting wrapped up in talking about unprovable forces while still pushing forward intellectually.
Yes, thanks Kaiser!
Again, Dough, thanks for making such a wonderful video. I'd think at least some of psychic abilities might indeed play a crucial role toward gaining enlightenment. In Sāmaññaphala sutta DN2, the six psychic abilities are included as fruits of mendicants on the gradual path. Of which the Three Knowledges (Tevijja) are said to be particularly useful, apparently used by the Buddha-to-be himself on the night gaining his great enlightenment. And the sixth psychic ability, the knowledge of destruction of āsava is lauded as the "highest" psychic ability leading to cutting off all the mental fetters that must be earned by his disciples prior to attaining arahantship.
Yes, it is clear that the Buddha believed there were certain psychic or what we might also term "magical" abilities that advanced practitioners might gain. But they were never the point of the practice, which was instead one of gaining nibbāna or the cessation of craving.
Everyone is actually doing magic all the time the magicians have awareness of it and then place intent onit. The world is full of disguise being with awareness is also to gain awareness of your abilities. Many put them on like clothes to perform an intention to cover up. You beings abilities are limitless super human and ancient Buddhism knows of this documents it controls it inside ancient wisdoms. To grasp for your abilities has its own outcomes for your secretes to become known to you like a lotus bloom unfurling it’s petals is a subtle path. But magic is everywhere and in all people they are made from the original creation something made from nothing. Creators makers, manifestées, how you chose to tread on earth with your power is your journey that will lead you to the many faces of earth.
Hendrick Tan If you're chasing enlightenment, you are inevitably being deceived
@@michaelthomas6280 Beware of the Neo-Zen and Advaita junks that enlightenment is an egocentric, delusional trip. I did lots of such and have gone over in my early days. Without having enlightenment as goal one doesn't even know where to start to uproot defilements and associated egoism.
Only the last abilitiy (the ability to rid urself off the fetters) plays a crucial role towards gaining enlightenment. The first five abilities are considered "mundane" and could sometimes be considered a distraction on the path towards enlightenment.
Never thought about asking this question. Thank you
🙏😊
As the magical elements are kept quiet or explained as obvious metaphor in western circles to protect the narrative of buddhism as secular/scientific religion, i was wondering to what extent this is happening in "westernized" areas of East Asia
Historically I think it has, though as I point out in the video there is a pretty clear ambivalence in early Buddhism itself to ideas we might frame as "magic". Clearly there are some aspects of early Buddhism that involve supernatural aspects, but much of it turns away from that as well. It's complicated.
Loved this. Thank you. I bought your book two days ago also. :)
Thank you! 🙏😊
Fascinating episode.
🙏😊
Thank you Sir to this episode on this topic. Sir I am eager to explore budha. Please make an episode on very famous book on budha written by Dr.B.R Anbedkar (Buddha and his Dhamma.
Jay Bhim.
Yes I did a video on that topic awhile back: ua-cam.com/video/qlH_qieCgCA/v-deo.html 😊
JAI BHIM!
Life is magical.
An important topic and video🙏🙏
Because?
@@ReverendDr.Thomas cause i didnt know what was buddhas thought about magic.
🙏😊
@@sakuta5868 what makes you think every buddha has PRECISELY the same opinion on any particular matter? 🤔
@@ReverendDr.Thomas i didnt say every buddha.Sorry if i have bad english.Obisly i meant Gautama Buddha. im still learning. Buddhism looks deep and intersting🙏.Thats why im in this channel.☸️☮️
Since buddha rejected the authority of vedas. I want you talk about the relation between vedas and Buddhism.
That's a deep question that to my knowledge not a lot of scholarship has been done on. I'd be interested to know more about it myself.
Did he really reject Vedas or did he reject first half of the Vedas? Then followers rejected the rest? Since Buddha comes from Hindu family his teaching would be similar to last half portion of the Vedas. Towards the ends. Rejecting Varnashastra is hard if you don’t reject Vedas I guess. 🤷♂️
thank you for this video!! i was super curious on this topic :D
You're very welcome, nicole! 🙏
Baka Brahmā (literally "crane-Brahmā") appears in the Majjhima Nikaya, where he is a deity who believes that his world is permanent and without decay (and that therefore he is immortal), and that therefore there are no higher worlds than his.
Doug I recommend you read 'Revolution and Counter revolution' by Dr.BR Ambedkar to know about devas, asuras and all the other people of India.
Thanks!
this channel is great
Thank you!
My pleasure!
Some people can read and influence mind. Eg: Lior Suchard
Excellent presentation 🙏
Thank you! Cheers! 🙏
Thank you Sir, it is a profound explanation
My pleasure, Ray! 🙏
Hello! I enjoy watching your videos, and thank you for sharing!!! 🙂
I have a question though I recently finished reading a book titled 'Buddhism plain and simple' by a zen priest in which it said
'He [The Buddha] never claimed to be a god or inspired by god, or to have access to any occult or supernatural power.'
Although the texts shown in this video seem to suggest otherwise, does anyone know why this is?
Well I'm not sure why the Zen priest said what he did. Perhaps he didn't consider some of the claims in early Buddhism to involve "occult" or "supernatural" powers. Or perhaps he feels that those claims were interpolated into the texts at a later date. For myself, though I do understand that the Buddha seems to have made such claims, without being able to verify them, I leave them to the side as speculation.
Thank you Doug for making a video on magic, I have always been interested by these supernatural stories, and have myself just started to explore the fascinating world of magic and the occult.
In my current understanding, the modern western magical system is built on Cartesian dualism, where there are the res cogitans (consciousness) vs. res extensa (extended world), similar to the Hinduism idea of Kshetrajna and Kshetra. In this framework, with the right method and intention, one can impress their internality onto the extended world, and this measures the power of a magician.
So if one have this view, then it can be seen as Buddha's internal world is so strong and oppressive, that it crushes the internal worlds of all others that come before him, so they have no choice but to take shelter in Buddha's world, like a refugee whose home has been wiped away by a typhoon.
Over time, they rebuilt their own world from the blueprint of the Buddha and eventually becomes as he is. In this way, the Buddha can be seen as a great magician, the destroyer of worlds, a great daemon who seeds himself into the hearts of men.
The issue for me is in this way of viewing things, one is kept in an ever-ending struggle of me vs. others, my world vs. other worlds, my view vs. other views, where the more "powerful" one get, the further one stray away from the non-dual ideal, and therefore the possibility of liberation is diminished.
So as I stare into Buddha, it's almost like his image is shifting between an angelic merciful teacher, and a cunning deceitful demon, and the whole thing is swirling like a visual illusion, I wonder what can I do about this?
You're very welcome, Chris. Not sure what to suggest for you though!
I would just drop the Dualism in general my guy. The fact that there's a change between supernatural states signifies that you have some wrong view to the Buddah.
The Buddha was a human, a person with feelings, thoughts, emotions, and his goal was to keep them from suffering due to their attachment to views based on the three poisons. Compassion is a very human thing. Seeing the Buddha as a teacher, not spirit, is likely the answer to your dilemma.
See the man, hear his words, follow dharma and be compassionate to all sentient beings. Magic is the means of change, not like, a fixed worldview. Make sure the change is compassionate and skillful and you'll be fine.
@@DougsDharma No worries, I was playing with some ideas, thought it would entertain haha. Although I am indeed in a conundrum, and maybe you could help me. In your research, have you come across any stories of monks that left the Buddha after hearing the dharma, but later chose to come back? I would love to hear their journey/testament. Thanks again!
@@malaklanfear Hey, thanks for the advice! To see the Buddha simply as a wise human definitely strips away many delusional thoughts I have that spawned from my own greed for experience, it's a hard thing to let go of, but practice makes perfect. On the other hand, what do you think of the world view that comes with Buddhism, like rebirth, samsara, etc.? What about all the supernatural beings like spirits, devas and the likes?
@@dpsrush I didn't say simply a wise human. There's quite a few Mahayana sutras that speak of the supernatural elements of buddhas, however you can't lose the man in the wealth of knowledge.
He was a man, and his motivations were human, and I can assume that that ability to connect with the suffering of beings in Samsara is only expounded by the enlightened state. It's a reductionist take to see him as only one or the other. Take a look at the Sangata Sutra if you are interested. It's a sermon the Buddha gave to gods, and those from other worlds.
Fundamentally, I pratice the Dzogchen lineage, so I personally view the universe as inherently noetic, minds are created as just a product of dependant arising, those minds then take forms as determined by Karma, or merit if one also adopts a mahayana mentality.
Those beings are just that, beings. They have their own sufferings, and are in need of being helped and liberated. Even gods suffer...and theirs seems the worst sort of suffering.
I do not take a materialist view with buddhism. Materialistic views are only wrong if they're used to justify actions that cause suffering. I use the example of tinkerbell from the old Peter pan play.
If there were beings that required belief to exist, would it be like denying water or food to those beings? Who wouldn't clap for the fairy? It's a personal view that all sentient beings are worthy of existence and liberation by the sheer act of existing unenlightened and suffering when the true nature of beings is inherently buddha.
I did notice that you mentioned a greed for experience. That is a poison, but it's not that hard to fix. Resolve to devote yourself wholly to easing the suffering of beings on whatever experience you have and you will be fine.
That's at its core is my view. At its most reduced, in a universe that is proven to be only mater without logos, Dharma helps one live happy, healthy, and without regret. Please, if you approach the occult, see it as it is. See spirits as they are: beings in need of liberation and friendship, Kindness and compassion.
Though, something tells me there's way too many books on magic, gods, spirits and even fairies, for that materialism example to be the case here in this universe.
Can you read some of the Dhammapada and explain it please
I've mentioned many citations from the Dhammapada over the years. I once thought about doing a video on it but there's just too much there to cover! Maybe eventually I can take a chapter or part of a chapter or something.
@@DougsDharma I have and read the Dhammapada but it’s always better when you have a wise commentator to help with understanding the literature, thank you so much 😊
About Twin Miracle, I have heard of an interesting theory or story which explains the mechanism how this magic works. It has to do with abhijñā and jhana. For citations, I could not provide literature work since it is just some theory of few practitioners I know who are going for jhana and abhijna.
First, the Buddha entered the fourth jhana contemplating the nature of fire as a meditative subject, then his mind created the reality of fire. The result is flame coming out of air.
Then, the Buddha entered fourth jhana contemplating the nature of water as a meditative subject, his mind created the reality of water. The result is drops of water coming out of air.
Basically, when you are contemplating one meditative subject, you cannot manage the other. This mean you cannot create water if you are contemplating on the nature of fire. So, how did the Buddha manage to do Twin Miracle: flames and water drops at the same time?
It said the Buddha had effective control over his mind. He had perfected his practices. So, basically he was entering the first, second, third, and fourth jhana on the nature of fire. Then, he got out of that jhana. Re-entered first, second, third, and fourth jhana on the nature of water. He repeated these process back and forth. His mind was a high speed CPU. He could enter such high jhanas in a short time. He was rapidly entering jhanas and getting out of them, entering them for different meditative subject, getting out of them, and so on.
Even the Buddha's second disciple, Maudgalyāyana, could not enter (could not reach) jhanas as fast as the Buddha.
It also explains the question: On what base, did Buddha regard Maudgalyāyana as the supreme disciple at psychic powers? Afterall, all of the followers of Maudgalyāyana could use supernatural powers. Why was he the best? It turns out the shorter the amount of time required to enter jhana and abhijn, the greater psychic power one holds. He can enter first to fourth jhanas for like three different kammatthana while the other disciples are still taking time to enter first jhana for one kammatthana. This further explains why the Buddha allowed only Maudgalyāyana to battle (naga) Nandopananda - you have to react fast.
Although I do not have any supermundane powers or abhijna. I think it is pretty interesting to hear this mechanism behind the Twin Miracle. I hope you find some value too.
Great 😃 presentation!!
Thanks, Aaron! 🙏
Thank you, I have so many questions 🙂
What is your guidance or way do you practice in order to achieve (.....) knowing what you know?
Hey Doug! Thanks for the videos and your dedication. I was wondering if you had read the Talaputa sutta (SN 42.2) and if you have what your thoughts on it might be. My teacher is in the Tibetan tradition and doesn't know much about the Pali canon, otherwise I would have asked her advice on this specific text. You always have measured and thoughtful views on the early tradition and I would love your take on this sutta. Thanks!
I've discussed that sutta in several past videos, including one on Right Livelihood I think. It is interesting!
I was surprised that there was no mention of dharani in the video.
I know in the description it says the focus is on ‘conversion magic,’ but for me I think of supernatural powers as one category and magic as another, and in the latter I think primarily of dharani and of mantra.
Yes, though dharani and mantras didn't play a large role in early practice, which is most of the focus of my videos. (Perhaps it's because of ideas such as those found in the suttas of this video).
@@DougsDharma oh, I didn’t realize that dharani weren’t considered early Buddhism. I know that historically mantra and guhyamantra developed later, but I thought dharani were contemporary with early suttas (but, also, I focus on Tibetan Buddhism so there is a lot about this that I don’t know).
I don't know much about them. Though I do believe some are indeed early, they do not appear to have been a focus of early practice.
@@DougsDharma that makes sense. I imagine them as simply being day to day necessities like, you’ve got to know how to shelter, how to heal illnesses, and protect yourself and some of those methods are what we would call “natural” (medicinal uses of rice milk, etc.) and some of them are what we would call magic (dharani), but either way they’re supports to the practice and not the main thing. (Of course, in later times, being a ngakpa or some other magical practitioner became an important thing, just as being a medical practitioner did, even though I believe those are both forbidden ways to make a living for early monks).
I missed you man
I've been here! Glad to have you back. 🙏
Maya also means illusion
Have you done a video on the Four Bases of Power? According to my source, The Wings To Awakening by Thanissaro Bhikkhu there are actually six powers listed including levitation and mind reading. It seems to be a topic avoided by Buddhists in general but I would be interested in hearing your comments.
Color me skeptical is all I can say. If you find the notion useful then by all means pursue them. But they aren't the true goal of practice.
@@DougsDharma I agree but the powers are mentioned in the suttas. I wonder if they are a later addition. They do seem to be related to the topic of your video on Buddhism and Magic.
Right. At the time they weren't considered magic, FWIW. There is no evidence I'm aware of that they were a later addition, so perhaps they were relatively normal abilities of some sort that were mischaracterized. (E.g., lucid dreaming). Hard to say for sure.
@Doug's Dharma I came across your channel today. From the sermons I have heard before, I think I can answer your question in the video about Buddhism's stance on supernatural powers.
"There are supernatural powers in Buddhism. However, from the records, Buddhist enlighteners who were in possession of these powers would only use it to humble non-Buddhists who also had supernatural powers and were drunk on their powers, thinking of them as the greatest thing ever.
These supernatural Buddhists would show the latter their superior supernatural powers and then disdain the superior powers they had as "mundane and useless." Then, they would ask the Non-Buddhists, "even if my supernatural powers are superior than yours, I still think of it as useless. Should you, who have inferior powers than me, really be drunk on your inferior supernatural powers as the greatest thing?" After solving their drunkeness on the supernatural powers, then the supernatural Buddhists will teach them the path to enlightenment (Buddhist path) which doesn't need to rely on having supernatural powers.
In short, supernatural powers in Buddhism are only used against those who are drunk on their supernatural powers. Show them even more superior supernatural powers, then disdain even those powers. That makes the supernatural powers drunkards realized how useless the powers are and once again entered the true path to enlightenment.
Credit: The sermon from Ven. Prayudh Payutto.
Yes, perhaps. There does seem to have been some rhetorical competition when it came to supernatural abilities.
@@DougsDharma Yes, though I forgot to tell u this in my previous post. From what I heard from the sermon, the humbling the drunkards using supernatural powers r what happened in the early records. In the later Buddhist records, there r uses of supernatural powers for the not-so-noble reasons, and the Venerable said it was because supernatural powers r popular among the believers during the ages of those records, that was why the preachers used them in sermons.
We do respect Buddhist academic scholars but we only receive teachings of unbroken enlightened master disciple lineage (which can be traced back to Lord Buddha) interpretation of teaching that has been pass down purely and has generated enlightened masters in every generation till today. As an ordinary being like me can interpret according to my limited information that i have gathered throughout my life , which is not necessary correct all the time, that is why in Buddhism Unbroken enlightened lineage interpretation is very important , if it wasn't then there would have enlightened Buddhist scholar's too.
Right on.
At that time the World-honored One, from the fleshy crown of His head, sent out a sparkling flood of light rays and, amidst these rays, burst forth a thousand-petaled jeweled lotus. A transformed Tathāgata sat within this jeweled flower the crown of His head emitting hundreds of glistening light rays in all directions; Everywhere each light revealed all things as numerous as the myriad grains of sand in the Ganges. The Vajrapanis, Jewel in hand, lighted up the mountains, appearing everywhere within the vault of space; the great assembly beheld this with awe. Unable to hold on to their fears and desires, they sought the Buddha’s pity and aid and whole-heartedly hearkened unto the radiant Tathāgata atop the now-concealed crown of the Buddha’s head as he chanted this sacred Invocation.
It's funny how every religion says magic or sorcery is what other people do and what they do is true divine power. The Buddha, portrayed as becoming invisible, going through walls, flying, teleporting, being at two places at once and reading minds, this man condemns sorcery. Right!
Buddhism may be the Religion the closest to Philisophy. When one stipulates that nature is the earthen language of Universal Values, a question comes to the mind of many: so violence and competition between animals are parts of that concept; and the answer is yes. We have been given the ability to have access to the widest possibility of choices facing the widest opportunity of choices between the brightest coolest visions and the darkest shadows: it takes motivation to look for and find a path that suits us which can be a middle path! It is not easy when facing the abundance of temptations and possibilities on the internet, which is a needle in the hay stack, compared to what a creative Soul can get in touch with. The opportunity of travelling and journeying between extreme beauty and extreme darkness is only top of the tips if associated with motivated awareness. The searches of inner and outer gold have a lot in common contrary to common thinking!
😢 I need to learn this magic.
I noticed your ear shape is nice . Nice ear shape :)
This channel is great. There's plenty of mythology in Buddhism. That includes the idea of a "Buddha." They don't exist, not have every, but useful as a mythology to guide yourself.
Other mythologies in Buddhism are:
-Nirvana
-Devas
-Karma
-Reincarnation
-Buddha's story of becoming a Buddha
-The Buddha. A real person, but most about the Buddha never happened. Just legends.
Yes there are a lot of legends in Buddhism, and many can be useful to frame our lives.
@@DougsDharma
You're right. The Buddha as described in Buddhism, is mostly likely mythological figure but a useful fiction nonetheless.
While a Buddha is more of a metaphor for somebody who is headed towards self-actualization it is still a powerful archetype for people to meditate upon in their practice.
But compared to many other religious mythologies Buddhism tends to have more applicability to everyday life.
It all depends upon what version of Buddhism you're speaking of as some are less consistent with reality.
I have encountered, Buddhist who are superstitious such as elevating some physical item as a requirement for enlightenment to magical thinking about mantras similar to the new thought movement.
I won't list any of the versions that are similar to this but you will find them all over the world. Many of them are very evangelical about it. They focus on proselytizing. Many even create a history that never happened, or is a misinterpretation.
Most secular historians believe he existed
@@matthewrousseau2982 Yes a real person. I don't dispute that.
However there's no such thing as a "Buddha." You cannot become a "Buddha," because they don't exist That's the comment.
@@kevinlipps5456 you do t think man can be enlightened by meditation. Have a significant change in his identity and outlook
Hello Doug. Splendid video. Do you respond to emails? There is a significant academic project I want to embark upon, and your aid would be invaluable.
Thanks Andarinn. You can find contact info for me here and there, though I don't have a huge amount of time, just to caution you.
maya: ilusion, an illusionist. I remember that passage like, you can learn this things with meditation; as a result of meditation. But if you use it to deceive people you cant be a part of the larger buddhist community... In the historical sense, I can see how the buddha learnt all this stuff, I mean he was essentially a sadhu for nearly a decade..
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🙏 阿 弥陀佛 😇
Dissapointing that vajrayana is no where mentioned in this. Since the primary tool of Padmasambhava was that of subjugation through magic.
Ah, this is more about early Buddhism, later material would be interesting to discuss though!
Talk about the nagas sometime, please:)
Doug missed most important point. Who were magicians ? Why Gautam had to confront them specifically?
It’s all in Gautam’s popular name Saka muni and Saka tribes connection to Aryans. Aryans also had philosophy that we call Zoroastrianism today. Word Magic comes from Zoroastrian priests Maga who were performing magics and are known for that from very early history. Aryans moved into Ganges region in large numbers around 1000 BCE. It’s certain that Maga were among them also.
If you apply Avestan to Sanskrit language conversation formula Haxāmanis becomes precisely Sakamunih. Gautam was Saka Aryan. Persians on west used this term and Aryans of Ganges used same term in same time frame
So far as I know there isn't any good evidence that the Sakyans were Zoroastrian or knew about Zoroastrianism, though I know some have speculated about such things.
@@DougsDharma I learn a lot from you on Ancient state of Buddhism. As far as Saka/ Scythian history go there is proof. Kushan produced more coins of Aryan deities Zoroastrian than Buddhist. These are same as found in Saka home land. This Includes famous coin of Vasudeva dressed as Mega. Saka or Scythian history is full of what we call Zoroastrian and Vedics. These are modern names. Texila has Zoroastrian temple among Buddhist and Jain ruins. Mahayan formed in Eastren Persia. Tons of evidence there. Temple 18 at Sanchi is Zoroastrian type temple with raised fire alter. Vedic had fire pits opposed to raised alter.
@@mahasona3997 On Saka issue although we can never be 100% sure about one way or other. His name Sakamuni and place of birth Saket nagar are pretty close clues. Aryan presence in Ganges region is proven by genetic science in last 10 years. Saka is one of four major Aryan tribes
Ishvanku tribe, I have not digged it. Not qualified to comment on it. I heard about it.
Solar dynasties are Mithra or Mitra at centre as sun god. It’s top deity of Parthians. Parthians were Saka or Scythians. It’s only empire that can be called closed to Vedic empire. Many of Vedic gods appear on Parthian coins.
Saka were barbarian for many. Greeks, Romans called them similar names. There are stories of Saka ridiculing Darius the great. Yet their DNA is major part of North Indian DNA. They were fully successful in India. Saka/Greek city of Sakala city (modern Sialkot) name has striking similarity with Saket
As far as Brahmins go, there is not single proof of their existence in India before Gupta empire. All ancient tangible proof of Sanskrit are found west of Peshawar in East Persian lands. Which happens to be original home of Aryans and Saka
@@mahasona3997 Saka and their role in spreading East Persian or Eranshah gods in India and overall hold on philosophy is greatly overlooked and undermined. India’s national calendar is Saka calendar. Originally developed in Indo Greek era. Brought into Punjab by Parthians. Then taken to next level by Kushans. Buddhism didn’t became force outside South Asia until Mahayan came on scene. Times when Mahayan was getting formulated in Punjab, Kashmir Saka had full hold over social elites. We need to take upper layers off. It’s all there. Maga, all central Asian, East Persian deities gods, Aryans were influencing, controlling, coexisting, opposing, propelling at same time.
So called natives of North India Naag people have archaeological evidence up to Kazakhstan. There is much more in history that is not discussed. Gandhran people were carving serpent with Budha and Jains, why? Naags are supposed to be defeated and opposed by Brahmins caste system. Story is different when we start analyzing the critical questions and relooking at evidence while zoning out of what’s written on paper
@@uprightwalkingape3483 scyhtians adopted buddhism scythians dropped their barbaric nature later era
You know you won't believe I used to do mediation using sound or mantras. I have tapped 4 times in the future and seen accidents, and sick people before it happens.
I don't know how it happens but it did. It only happened with one of a mantra of Durga also known as Tara also known as Bodhisatva or even Female Buddha. But after doing the mantra I was getting sick and started to hallucinate and was seeing some women following me, only I was seeing them not my family. Their face appears like they are in a state of meditation. I got scared and stop the mantra meditation.
Sounds like something not worth being attached to
Comment 108 & Like 432.
Concert that.
Magic is when God doesn't do something Himself but instead allows his heart to do it for Him.
Has he found aladins flying carpet???
Oh oh oh it's magic
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Do you practice vipassana meditation?
Yes, I practice mindfulness and vipassana.
@@DougsDharma amazing!
The real magic is that the self is an illusion .
😄 Indeed!
What a coincidence , Magic in Buddhism connects with my project : 'Buddhist for Harry Potter against He who will not meditate ' . Donate with paypall .....
Seriously though, another great video with an original angle. I sometimes wonder if you project a modern concept, and start out disagreeing .But you'r so well informed, i find myself nodding along with your arguments 😅.
Thanks for your comment, SA! 🙏😊
Hey doug. Hope you're doing alright. Can you please talk about being conscious/aware during bardo? Also can you simplify once I am in the bardo how do I control my next birth?
P.S; I am missing your "hello-hello" start😉
the " Tibetan book of the dead " explains this in great detail "
The early texts don't really go into this in any detail at all. And sorry about the intro, I change it up sometimes! 😄
@@DougsDharma so are you implying this whole bardo concept is something that you don’t think came from the Buddha himself?
Doing magic is counter to the idea of truth since all magic depends on deception.
Yes, I'd think so too.
Ceremonial magick has nothing to do with deception. Educate yourself...🎑
Buddha was an incarnation of Krishna/ Vishnu.
Kagic is simply unknown scientifical principles.
If it is real, then yes; unless it's really a form of sleight-of-hand, and that would point to principles of psychology and cognitive illusion.
Maya is illusion more than magic.
Yes, probably the translators understand it to mean a kind of magic that produces illusions or delusions.
ARE YOU SURE YOU HAVE THE CORRECT INTERPRETATION
The more I hear about the mystic parts of buddhism, the more I am turned away from it. I would love to think that their is a way out of the agonizing reality of Duhkha, but I've never fully believed in buddhism for the reason of it having all these mystical aspects. I agree with a lot more in buddhism than any other religion, and so it makes me sad and confused to see them performing rituals and talking about magic. To me, I believe in all that is scientifically proven, and none else.
Yes fair enough, but this video is about turning away from such things, as they are ultimately unimportant. (Even more so if they aren't real!)
@@DougsDharma
what u call real is just a more convincing form of illusion...the highest understanding is nothing exists and nothing is happening...the realization below this is nothing matters and everything is meaningless...I am aware of forms of magic in thai and khmer buddhism...certain rituals and methods accompanied by mantra...things as simple as closing the mouth of an attacking dog so it can't bite...blessing water for a pregnant woman having difficult childbirth to spit the baby out easily after drinking the water...mantra and ritual to make rainfall...mantras to imbue copper takruts (inscrlbed with khmer khom script) to prevent any gun from firing...mantras to bless water to make all illness disappear...black magic like voodoo to make a nail sitting in ones palm enter the intestines of the enemy...I have 25 years experience with thai buddhism and have seen magic displayed with success several times...the goal is very simple...just to be beyond thought...no feeling...no image..nothingness...just pure consciousness...I have met monks who displayed hypnotizing a person for me...bad monk using love mantra in orange juice to give to girl who fell in love with him (he was later caught by villagers having sex with a woman in his kuti and they forced him to disrobe and leave the temple)...in old times (about 700 years ago in chiang mai) the lanna people had their own language and lots of magic...I have books full of their mantras and use them daily...looking at demonstrattion of preventing gun from firing...test is done by putting the takrut on a string and tying it around a chickens neck and then pointing gun slightly to the side and pulling the trigger...basically lots of monks have gotten involved in magic and have gotten into trouble thereby...it can be as dangerous as p*ssy itself or lead to making money and then disrobing and having sex...all of humanity in all religions there is corruption so it is all part of being human...those going up for more clarity and those going down by degrees for more details and suffering all by choice...only nirvana is permanent...all over conditiions of existence are temporary...even the suffering in the hells...it is for a period of time like a jail sentence and then one gets out for another experience
@@DougsDharma cool 🙂
You better hope that science will lead you to enlightenment then.
@@Xvladin goddammit. you're right.. oh, sorry. I mean... science dammit
So if I have a decent argument with you and convince you that an idea is valid, is this magic? What does that mean for a parent and child? Stop, do not rush, let go of your anger, focus on your breath. One wonders whether this is magic, or, perhaps more likely just plain common sense?!
I think in that context the Buddha was using the term "magic" in a metaphorical or ironic sense.
Sounds like they accused Buddha of being a charismatic salesman.
Maybe so, but I think they intended more than that.
@@DougsDharma after all it was a Brahmin who poisoned him
@@JohnDoe-fu4qd Buddha knew about the poisonous mushrooms, he made sure nobody else will eat, except him, he also made sure the host will not be acused of anything after his passing...
... so bizare and such a great heart, I always wonder why he did not refuse to eat and just dispose all those the mushrooms, he knew he will die.
I purchased a computer game that discusses the topic of magic, one called Baldur's Gate 3. They haven't finished making it yet, and I had the opportunity to talk to the community director and also other testers. After railing against them for making the mage hand the most powerful spell in the entire game, I complained that the cat familiar had no purpose because "meow" did nothing. The other posters laughed at me. Because if you used meow it would cause the goblins to look at the cat instead of the wizard. This allows backstabbing to happen.
The manner in which you discuss Buddha’s attitude on magic and miracles gives me the impression that you feel that the Buddha could, indeed, do these things. Is this correct? If so, this smacks of the christians claims that god COULD do this or that to demonstrate ‘His’ power/existence but simply chooses not to do so.
I tried to discuss such matters in a neutral manner in the video. As a secular practitioner I leave questions about supernatural claims and abilities to the side, as I don't find them useful.
I label it hypnosis
Yes, that certainly could be.
why you pronounce jain all weird?
Yeah smoke enough buddha and get strawberry cough
Funky Magic!
06:10 pure rhetoric. all manipulation. JUST BECAUSE HE SAID IT, DOESNT MAKE IT SO.
Sir If you read this please response me
After studying Buddhism and Hinduism and their history I would like to make you aware that Buddhism is far older than Hinduism and Hinduism is just a degraded version of Vajrayana brahch of Buddhism and this degradation occur from 1200 AD after islamic invasion of India started and people from Outside India gained some power after fall of Buddhist empires and I am damm sure that Hinduism is just a very very degraded version of Vajrayana Buddhism which just thrown buddha out of itself.
Me think this is Zen non sense 🙏
No-Zen...
siddharth gautama (buddha) was born in hindu family he practiced meditation and got enlightened. That's it.
@@mmMstatus you haven't read history.
Hinduism precedes the birth of Buddha by a long time. Are you saying some Buddhist practices which are found in Hinduism are older than the Buddha? Please give sources. Anyhow the Dharma is timeless ❤️
pretty shocking how you mispronounce Jainism
Sir I highly recommend you to read the book anilation of caste by Dr Bhim Rao Ambedkar.
Does it have anything to do with the video?
But is there magic to stop smacking between every sentence?
bla bla
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