Lack of dramatic expansion is no deal breaker to me. 900+ fps from a 3" .44SPL is way more than the usual 700-800fps you get from the most available 180-200gr loads. Also, if that slug goes 16" through a torso it will most likely strike bone along the way and that will better facilitate more expansion.
A decent .44 special self-defense round is hard to find but this one looks promising! Nice! As a fellow denizen of the Deep South, I, too, like to see tests with minimal clothing too. 16" in Clear Ballistics Gel would likely be a wee bit less in organic gel (and likely even less in a human target). So I agree that 14-16" is about ideal for civilian self-defense.
Sometimes I think we all get too caught up in the hp mentality. There are thousands of men in the grave yard that wish a round nose lead bullet didn’t kill. I’ve also wondered if a lead flat nose bullet had a decent amount of energy dump some what comparable to a hp, as they make a pretty decent hunting bullet. The best .44mag bullet I’ve used for deer is the Speer deep curl that actually has a shallow hp.
Some of these comments of people complaining about talking vs shooting are very shallow and obviously are made by people who do not shoot revolvers a lot. people who actually shoot alot like us absolutely love the deep dive discussion and we can always learn more or at the very least it is good to hear a different perspective. You are very well spoken and these videos are very easy to watch or even just listen to thankyou.
I’ve read, on a forum, that the problem with .44 Special defensive loads is that nearly all manufacturers just use the HP bullet that they use in .44 Magnum. The bullets are designed to open up at greater velocities than a .44 Special loading can produce. The poster then mentioned a bullet that was specifically designed for the .44 Special. He claimed that this solved the problem. Unfortunately I can’t remember the bullet he was talking about. Short of that, most of the guys on the forum suggest “Keith” wadcutters.
Cor-Bon, Hornady, Buffalo Bore, and Speer all have HP bullets that are designed specifically to work for the velocities of .44 SPL. From what I understand, the Hornady FTX .44 SPL is one of the best. It's a 165 grain JHP bullet with the FTX (polymer) insert, and expands very well at the proper velocities, even coming out of the snubbies, eg. Charter Arms Bulldog Pug with a 2.5 inch barrel.
@@LibertysetsquareJack Thank you! I was looking for that post but was unable to find it. You jogged my memory, it was the FTX. I was unaware of the other makers doing that. Many thanks.
I like the Buffalo Bore 200grain “Anti- personnel” hard cast wad cutter rounds going bout 1,000fps for my 44spl bulldog. A bit snappy but you don’t have to worry about expansion, I might carry those underwood in my 4” Tracker 44mag as “hotel room nightstand rounds” switching from bear loads after hiking. 👍🏻
Very interesting results. I like both of those Ruger revolvers. Maybe something like the Buffalo Bore heavy flat faced SWC “Keith” type load (or a handload equivalent) is the way to go in .44 Spl. Especially in predominantly rural environments.
I like your theory on penetration and defense use, also my concerns. I also tested the same round with the same revolver and then some of Underwood's full wadcutter loads. Talk about tissue disruption, massive. At least twice what I saw with the lead SWC and it actually had between 2"-3" LESS penetration, perfect for what I wanted adverging 13"-14" over 10 shots.
In the 1986 shootout a couple of things went wrong. - They did not carry any Speed Loaders. - Lack of marksmanship training. One guy emptied two 12rd magazines and still didn't hit much. Sometimes things such as tactics , training and culture were more important here. They should have carried Speed Loaders. Speed Loaders would have helped a great deal. A better ammunition would not have helped them that much. As their hit to ammunition ratio was not very good to begin with. Technology is easier to solve. Training, tactics and culture a bit harder to do. And you do have to use the technology as it is available. Speed loaders existed since 1879 at the earliest. 1917 was when half moon clips were invented. John M Hunt had his Speed Loader in 1959. Ole N. Nelson had his design in 1965. Donald Matich in 1965 had his Quick Load too.
It says on the box that it's a gas check bullet, but I'm not seeing any reduced band on the base of the bullet where the gas check was attached. None of the bullets have a gas check that have been dug out of the gel and I don't see any that became detached and remain in the gel. How do they claim it's a gas check bullet? Or is it an aluminium gas check that is colored the same as the bullet and shows the same shiny rifling marks as the shiny lead of the bullet? Just curious as a consumer because I know that as a handloader, gas checked bullets cost more and manufacturers charge more for gas checked bullets, so I'm wondering if it's a case of mislabeling the package or just a lack of organisation on the part of the manufacturer. Just something odd I noticed.
I have watched a lot of ballistic gel testing from quite a few different UA-camrs and what I've noticed the rounds like 38 special 44 special 45 Colt when they're traveling under 1,000 fps The round doesn't expand very well on majority of the hollow points
1) The FBI never used 4 layers of denim as clothing in ballistic testing. The idea of 4 layers of denim was the fanciful and unrealistic creation of the International Wound Ballistic Association - a eclectic group of individuals interested in the topic, with no official affiliation. The FBI "heavy clothing" consisted of a t-shirt, a flannel shirt, an insulated vest, and a single-layer denim jacket - with the actual fabric thread count and construction specified. Which is a more realistic and repeatable standard. 2) The bullet used in this video's test load is obviously pretty hard, not soft lead. I have loaded other cast 190 SWCHP bullets to 870 fps which expanded as well as the second bullet shown in the test (1066 fps). The .44 Special revolver that the overwhelming majority of people carry is the lightweight Charter Bulldog. That has a 2.5" barrel, and velocity would probably be even lower than the Ruger shown. Recoil would be quite high, with nothing special in the way of bullet performance to show for effort. Hard pass.
Great info. Steinel Ammunition makes a 180 XTP 44 SPL load I would like to see tested. Dont pay attention to complaints from the peanut gallery. You videos are fine.
A bit of friendly advice. Edit for brevity and focus. Too often people set up a camera in one position and then post the real time video. There were a lot of nothing happening on screen when you was presumably getting into position and aiming. And we didnt need to spend seconds watching you try to dig out the bullets in real time. Advice to take on board......or not.
I think it is Buffalo bore that sells a hard cast 44wadcutter.I heard good reports on it.Think it is 200 grain.Federal use to sell a 200 grain Semi wadcutter lead.900 FPS advertised. I got 875 fps Out of my 6 1/2" Mod 24 S&W. They made 45 Colt 225 grain. Lead semi wad.Don't know if round is available.Since shortage. I shot ground hogs,foxes with them instant kills. G.L
Why? What makes you think someone whats to hear a dog bark all the time? Whats the difference between a dog and a raido being loud and disturbing the peace?
@@tbjtbj4786 also music being played is music, loud or not. I would say music being played sounds just a wee bit better than some loud noise coming out of the vocals of a dog. There's a reason why when you go to a restaurant or riding an elevator or you're in a nice place there's music playing in the background, not a recording of dogs barking. COMMON SENSE.
If a bullet makes a big hole and hits where it causes massive blood loss then it is a fight stopper. Keep up the good videos.
Lack of dramatic expansion is no deal breaker to me. 900+ fps from a 3" .44SPL is way more than the usual 700-800fps you get from the most available 180-200gr loads. Also, if that slug goes 16" through a torso it will most likely strike bone along the way and that will better facilitate more expansion.
A decent .44 special self-defense round is hard to find but this one looks promising! Nice! As a fellow denizen of the Deep South, I, too, like to see tests with minimal clothing too. 16" in Clear Ballistics Gel would likely be a wee bit less in organic gel (and likely even less in a human target). So I agree that 14-16" is about ideal for civilian self-defense.
Sometimes I think we all get too caught up in the hp mentality.
There are thousands of men in the grave yard that wish a round nose lead bullet didn’t kill.
I’ve also wondered if a lead flat nose bullet had a decent amount of energy dump some what comparable to a hp, as they make a pretty decent hunting bullet.
The best .44mag bullet I’ve used for deer is the Speer deep curl that actually has a shallow hp.
Some of these comments of people complaining about talking vs shooting are very shallow and obviously are made by people who do not shoot revolvers a lot. people who actually shoot alot like us absolutely love the deep dive discussion and we can always learn more or at the very least it is good to hear a different perspective. You are very well spoken and these videos are very easy to watch or even just listen to thankyou.
Thanks for the kind words!
I’ve read, on a forum, that the problem with .44 Special defensive loads is that nearly all manufacturers just use the HP bullet that they use in .44 Magnum. The bullets are designed to open up at greater velocities than a .44 Special loading can produce. The poster then mentioned a bullet that was specifically designed for the .44 Special. He claimed that this solved the problem. Unfortunately I can’t remember the bullet he was talking about. Short of that, most of the guys on the forum suggest “Keith” wadcutters.
Cor-Bon, Hornady, Buffalo Bore, and Speer all have HP bullets that are designed specifically to work for the velocities of .44 SPL.
From what I understand, the Hornady FTX .44 SPL is one of the best. It's a 165 grain JHP bullet with the FTX (polymer) insert, and expands very well at the proper velocities, even coming out of the snubbies, eg. Charter Arms Bulldog Pug with a 2.5 inch barrel.
@@LibertysetsquareJack Thank you! I was looking for that post but was unable to find it. You jogged my memory, it was the FTX. I was unaware of the other makers doing that. Many thanks.
I like the Buffalo Bore 200grain “Anti- personnel” hard cast wad cutter rounds going bout 1,000fps for my 44spl bulldog. A bit snappy but you don’t have to worry about expansion, I might carry those underwood in my 4” Tracker 44mag as “hotel room nightstand rounds” switching from bear loads after hiking. 👍🏻
Very interesting results. I like both of those Ruger revolvers. Maybe something like the Buffalo Bore heavy flat faced SWC “Keith” type load (or a handload equivalent) is the way to go in .44 Spl.
Especially in predominantly rural environments.
Beautiful revolver.
Thanks.
yes, but grip heavy
You should investigate the solid copper hollow point from Double Tap, it's what I carry in my 3" 44 special.
Love 44 special, really wish it was more popular. That is why i went 357mag though cause their is more industry support
I like your theory on penetration and defense use, also my concerns. I also tested the same round with the same revolver and then some of Underwood's full wadcutter loads. Talk about tissue disruption, massive. At least twice what I saw with the lead SWC and it actually had between 2"-3" LESS penetration, perfect for what I wanted adverging 13"-14" over 10 shots.
In the 1986 shootout a couple of things went wrong.
- They did not carry any Speed Loaders.
- Lack of marksmanship training.
One guy emptied two 12rd magazines and still didn't hit much.
Sometimes things such as tactics , training and culture were more important here. They should have carried Speed Loaders. Speed Loaders would have helped a great deal.
A better ammunition would not have helped them that much. As their hit to ammunition ratio was not very good to begin with.
Technology is easier to solve. Training, tactics and culture a bit harder to do.
And you do have to use the technology as it is available.
Speed loaders existed since 1879 at the earliest. 1917 was when half moon clips were invented. John M Hunt had his Speed Loader in 1959. Ole N. Nelson had his design in 1965. Donald Matich in 1965 had his Quick Load too.
.430 will not shrink 😀
I carry a Charter 44spl .. with 200gr LSWC
Light , small and handy
Cast hollow points can expand very well.at low velocity. Underwood just needs to drop the BHN a couple of points so they work in sub 4” barrels.
Like that T-shirt! 🙌🏽😏
I usually get the magnum version of the gun. More options in ammo
It says on the box that it's a gas check bullet, but I'm not seeing any reduced band on the base of the bullet where the gas check was attached. None of the bullets have a gas check that have been dug out of the gel and I don't see any that became detached and remain in the gel. How do they claim it's a gas check bullet? Or is it an aluminium gas check that is colored the same as the bullet and shows the same shiny rifling marks as the shiny lead of the bullet? Just curious as a consumer because I know that as a handloader, gas checked bullets cost more and manufacturers charge more for gas checked bullets, so I'm wondering if it's a case of mislabeling the package or just a lack of organisation on the part of the manufacturer. Just something odd I noticed.
I have watched a lot of ballistic gel testing from quite a few different UA-camrs and what I've noticed the rounds like 38 special 44 special 45 Colt when they're traveling under 1,000 fps The round doesn't expand very well on majority of the hollow points
1) The FBI never used 4 layers of denim as clothing in ballistic testing. The idea of 4 layers of denim was the fanciful and unrealistic creation of the International Wound Ballistic Association - a eclectic group of individuals interested in the topic, with no official affiliation.
The FBI "heavy clothing" consisted of a t-shirt, a flannel shirt, an insulated vest, and a single-layer denim jacket - with the actual fabric thread count and construction specified. Which is a more realistic and repeatable standard.
2) The bullet used in this video's test load is obviously pretty hard, not soft lead. I have loaded other cast 190 SWCHP bullets to 870 fps which expanded as well as the second bullet shown in the test (1066 fps). The .44 Special revolver that the overwhelming majority of people carry is the lightweight Charter Bulldog. That has a 2.5" barrel, and velocity would probably be even lower than the Ruger shown. Recoil would be quite high, with nothing special in the way of bullet performance to show for effort.
Hard pass.
I think they needed to go with a heavier bullet with a deeper and wider hollow point or softer lead. I am thinking about 210-215 grain.
Great info.
Steinel Ammunition makes a 180 XTP 44 SPL load I would like to see tested.
Dont pay attention to complaints from the peanut gallery. You videos are fine.
I would like to see what it would do when fired from 16 inch barrel Carbine
If I get shot, you MAY NOT remove the bullet😅😅😅😅😅
Love your shirt
Thanks!
My Bulldog has a 3"barrel. My Dan Wesson has a 4" or 8".
A bit of friendly advice. Edit for brevity and focus. Too often people set up a camera in one position and then post the real time video.
There were a lot of nothing happening on screen when you was presumably getting into position and aiming.
And we didnt need to spend seconds watching you try to dig out the bullets in real time.
Advice to take on board......or not.
I think it is Buffalo bore that sells a hard cast 44wadcutter.I heard good reports on it.Think it is 200 grain.Federal use to sell a 200 grain Semi wadcutter lead.900
FPS advertised. I got 875 fps
Out of my 6 1/2" Mod 24 S&W.
They made 45 Colt 225 grain.
Lead semi wad.Don't know if
round is available.Since shortage.
I shot ground hogs,foxes
with them instant kills. G.L
I use Underwood exclusively and they load the .44 Special Hardcast 200-grain Wadcutter loaded to 1000fps! ✌️
@@Steve-yo4ld Thanks Steve good tip.
HSM also makes new construction cartridiges with a hardcast bullet for .44 SPL: they offer a 200 grain RNFP and a 240 grain SWC.
Ill take .44 special over 9mm.
Liberty civil defense 45 colt will stay in your attacker.
Try it from a six inch and a 44 rifle.👍
A busted bullet in a deer and a 3 hour track thru berry Brier will give you a good perspective on bullet integrity!???! Maybe?
How about 2 layers of denim and 1 layer of t shirt?
6.5 minutes in and the dude still aint shot.. god almighty. We get it. You love the sound of your own voice.
Way too much yapping
6:32
If you don't want to hear jaw flappin'.
I like your shirt born again pagan 😅
Thanks!
Buffalo bore cast full wadcutters
Bayou? Must be in Louisiana!
Indeed, suh!
It Really Erks Me When Folks Complain About A Dog Barking. I Bet Your 1 Of Those Karen/Ken Neighbors
I live close to a dog even you would complain about
Why?
What makes you think someone whats to hear a dog bark all the time?
Whats the difference between a dog and a raido being loud and disturbing the peace?
I'm assuming you own a dog that barks ALL THE TIME?
Hella Gabachos (Slang), In This Comment Section I Can Tell
@@tbjtbj4786 also music being played is music, loud or not. I would say music being played sounds just a wee bit better than some loud noise coming out of the vocals of a dog. There's a reason why when you go to a restaurant or riding an elevator or you're in a nice place there's music playing in the background, not a recording of dogs barking. COMMON SENSE.
way to much talking, waaaay to much.
A UA-cam audiobook. It's like listening to Charlie Brown's teacher.