PCA General Assembly Review (2024)
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- *VIDEO NOTES: Corrections, resources, affiliate links etc.
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In theory, why would a PCA church have anyone on the payroll that's not a believer? That in and of itself seems like it would be a potential conflict of interest.
The care providers for our nursery are contracted, so some may not be believers, if an instance took place that needed medical care wouldn’t you want someone trained in that to be there?
I've usually seen it when a church hires maintenance staff (plumbers, electricians, elevator techs, etc.) and sometimes with outside accounting or legal entities.
@@zachbattles9762 yes, but they are not on staff. That's contracting. That's fine.
@josephbruce5177 you can get certified for cpr, basic trauma etc. If it's rhat big of an emergency then go to the emergency room.
@@josephbruce5177 Not a criticism, but wouldn't there be enough volunteers to take care of the nursery? Our church has plenty of women members, who are properly vetted, that just love the job. They rotate around.
Always a great job pastor Matthew, and my pastor Lee Hutchings!!
Lee is the best!!!!!! We miss his teaching and leading! We were only there a short time but we miss it! You all are blessed.
I pastor an International Presbyterian Church (IPC) out in Seoul, South Korean, and yes, I can attest to the very very loose use of the word for “deacon.” In many churches the title for deacon “jibsa” is hardly considered an office at this point. In some churches depending on your age, giving, time spent, popularity, etc. anyone can be called jibsa. I have family on my wife’s side who both husband and wife are called jibsa in the church though they’re very nominal in their faith.
@@thejoshuaproject3809 Presbyter means elder not deacon.
@@maxxiong Sorry, I misread your original comment.
Where in Seoul is your church, and what is it called? I'm stationed in Pyeongtaek and would love to come visit an English speaking presbyterian church with my wife!
@RevDonBaker Thanks! Excited to visit at some point. Looks like yall are pretty close to Lotte Tower.
Luckily, we should be getting a PCA church plant in Pyeongtaek in the next few months. But we'd love to come visit yalls church! Thanks for the information!
@@noahsell5258 Yes you will! That’ll be Rev. Jaewon Park. We actually interned together up here in Seoul Covenant. Hopefully we’ll be able to do a lot together.
Jesus Calling is based on the book called God Calling (hard to find but I found and own a copy) which was written by Two Listeners. It was written by the process called Automatic writing, which is a practice by pagans where the writer would clear their mind and become an open vessel to allow any spirit to take hold of them and write through the vessel. In the first editions of Jesus Calling, Sarah Young admitted to doing this practice to personally feel closer to God because the Bible was not enough, and then published the book. Why this book has not been denounced is beyond me. I hate that book with a passion (because at one of my jobs we were obliged to read it before work for devotion as a team).
I was disappointed to the publication of this book celebrated in the big anniversary issue of By Faith. Thank God that the issue came to the floor!
Who wrote God Calling?
The only authors listed are “Two Listeners” 🤷♂️
@@AlexanderLongacre182 Was it the one edited by A. J. Russell? Do you know if it was from 1899?
Correct. A.J. Russell is the editor, and from what I remember he said he got it from two women who wished to remain anonymous but be known as simply “two listeners”
Thank you Pastor. It was great meeting you. I agree completely, the networking at GA is my favorite aspect. The inside baseball is fine, and at times it’s vitally important, but I truly love meeting and mingling with PCA brothers. I made a recap video as well, and seems our recollections are similar.
Pastor Matt: Regarding the Korean American churches, I can clarify it for you (I am a Korean American). Due to the Confucianism influence, the Korean American society is very hierarchical, orderly, and title based. As people reach adults, only friends and relatives call you by name. It is considered very rude to call someone by name without adding some title before the name. In 20s, you can get away with using names but with adding the title "Mister" (in Korean) in front (actually at the end for Korean). After 30 and 40s, their first and middle names are only used for official purposes. Instead, they accrue titles and use that to call them. That's the culture (in time, you sometimes forget your grandparents name because you didn't call them by their names for 40+ years).
This culture influenced the church, so they developed below titles. In the Korean and Korean American churches, you must use titles or it is considered rude. Here are some titles:
Official and Ordained Positions:
Senior Pastors (ordained)
Associate Pastors (ordained)
Elders (ordained)
Deacons (ordained)
Non-Official/Non-Ordained Titles:
Jundosa: which is an evangelist in Korean, but for some reason when translated into English, they use the title "pastor" - Their purpose is to help pastors and elders in caring for church members. The problem here is that many of them are women and they preach to younger children and sometimes to the youth groups (not all of them, but many of them).
Suri Deacon: Translates into Deputy/Situational/Temporary Deacons: They help elders and ordained deacons in serving members and programs. Many of them are women, but both men and women with this title aren't ordained. This title is used to evaluate future candidacy of "Ordained Deacon".
Gwonsa: This title is mostly inherited by elders' wives or sometimes they are chosen from female "Suri Deacons". Mostly, they are over 50. They are the "Older Church Ladies" and they govern and discipline younger women. They officiate all church mean preparations and servings.
Confusions and Problems: I have no idea why the title of Jundosa is translated into "pastor", but it happened (could be some liberal elements or an honest mistake). The recent problem (in the last 20 to 30 years) is that many women Jundosas started to "think" they are actually pastors because they are called "pastors" by English speaking congregation members. Many of them tried to exercise authority and some pastors allowed them. In some more conservative churches, senior pastors and elders put a stop to these Jundosa/pastors from overstepping their bounds. However, due to what we refer to as "American feminist influences" (words are actually meaner but I rather not translate it directly), some of them became delusional and started acting like American church "female pastors". Nowadays, may of them give sermons on the Lord's Day in Children's and Youth group ministries. It's actually becoming problematic.
So, removing titles is not an option, but Korean PCA pastors and elders need to stop using the title "pastor" and use evangelist. As far as I know, most Gwonsas (older church ladies) won't put up with feminist influences, but things are changing... dude to what we call "too much intake of American water". 🙂
Thank you for this summary.
Matt, I would love you to do a video outlaying your argument for male only deacons. You should also address church history views of women deacons
I'd like to hear this too. I thought most Bible believing churches allowed for female deacons. Probably not elders or Pastors but deacons.
@@keckiebooks yeah I’ve always found it weird the Catholics don’t permit it. There’s a deaconess in the Bible by name. Deacon is also not a leadership position. It’s from the Greek word for “servant.”
Thanks for making this.
If person doesn't beloieve in Jesus, then that person hasn't been graced with faith by God.. The unbeliever isn't lying, b
I don't even like the title "worship leader" ; this should be just "pastor" or "elder."
The pastor of your church is the worship leader.
What if the person isn’t a pastor or elder?
Some churches have female worship leaders like my church, so we ofc don’t call her a pastor. We did have a worship pastor before, but he did a lot more than just lead worship; he pastored those in the worship service and in our church with his wisdom and insight, which our two current worship leaders (a man and a woman) don’t do.
Jesus Calling is horrendous. Sara Young and her husband should have been excommunicated after the first edition was published. Find the original printing and read the beginning pages. It’s horrific that the book is connected to the PCA.
It's was definitely a good GA, and it was great meeting you!
That’s awesome.
I’m working on being ordained, hopefully one day I can meet you guys.
Thanks for the recap Matt! Also, Jesus Calling should not be endorsed by the PCA and they dropped the ball by not addressing this book way sooner.
Jesus Calling? It is totally heretical, new age, and in some cases "prophecy" is communicated by automatic writing! Somehow I ended up with a copy of it when I first got saved. After reading it, I didn't just throw it away, I tore the pages out and ripped them up as well! If Sarah Young's husband approved of her book, then someone needs to investigate what he is preaching and teaching!
Thanks for sharing Pastor! Appreciation from a PCA brother 🤝
After all I’ve heard about the book Jesus Calling I never knew she was PCA. I assumed by its content she was a new ager and an unbeliever who gave mystics the same respect than the actual word of God. Self describing her problem that the word of God wasn’t enough and she wanted more It’s been said her jesus was slightly effeminate and described sometimes like a boyfriend. Sounds like the machinations of a woman turning Jesus into an idol of her own making. Doreen Virtue’s channel has done good work regarding this book. Blessings🙏✝️
I am a Baptist. I am a member of an OPC church. Our church bylaws say you cannot be an officer in our local church if you do not agree 100% with the WCF.
Therefore, I cannot be an elder. I think this is right, even though I am Biblically qualified.
Couldn’t this, somehow, be introduced into PCA, OPC, and other forms of Reformed Presbyterian churches?
Seems to me that would keep a lot of potential problems from coming up.
I think the same idea would work for Reformed (or Particular, if you prefer) Baptists concerning the London Baptist Confession.
Still struggling with understanding some of Presbyterian Church government, so I may be way off on this.
Most OPC churches and presbyteries permit elders to take reasonable and well-reasoned exceptions to the WCF. As long as they are minor distinctions, it is alright to have exceptions.
@@duneregent1033my understanding is OPC officially requires no exceptions whereas PCA allows exceptions (they just have to be stated and approved). I think this is part of why OPC is smaller than PCA despite being an older denomination (1930’s vs 1970’s).
@@classicchristianliterature This is not the case, as I know OPC ministers who have discussed minor exceptions. They do have to be disclosed and approved, similar to the PCA. Perhaps the OPC tends to me more strict about exceptions, but they are permitted.
Edit: One of the questions for ordination is whether you "sincerely receive and adopt the Confession [...] as containing the system of doctrine taught in the Holy Scriptures." Obviously that is a question that could be truthfully answered in the affirmative even while taking certain minor exceptions.
Ironically, I, a Baptist, was asked to be an elder in an OPC church at one time, but I would have had to change my views first. I was offered instruction on the subject, which I invited, but through my own studies, I became even a more confirmed Baptist. I still agree, though, with the OPC (back then and now) that only confirmed Presb;yterians should hold office in Presby. churches.
@@jimcampbell3289 agree. different views on baptism as an elder would not be something that should be accepted as an exception. I’ve always been curious about what exceptions would be considered minor.
According to a new study sponsored by LifeWay Christian Resources, 10 percent of Protestant churchgoers under 35 have previously left a church because they felt sexual misconduct was not taken seriously. That’s twice as many as the 5 percent of all churchgoers who have done the same.
Among the younger demographic, 9 percent said they have stopped attending a former congregation because they personally did not feel safe from misconduct.
Should we work on an overture toward constitutionalizing the entirety of the BCO? Let’s get to drafting one! Catawba Valley Presbytery could help draft one perhaps.
HOW DARE YOU NOT TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE THAT WAS MOST IMPORTANT TO ME?!
WHY THE COVER UP?
What issue is that?
Greetings from France.
Not to raise a hymn to the level of Scripture... but... I think its admonition would be wise to heed, especially in the legalistic application of man's limited understanding of the breadth of God.
3 But we make God’s love too narrow
by false limits of our own,
and we magnify its strictness
with a zeal God will not own.
4 For the love of God is broader
than the measures of the mind,
and the heart of the Eternal
is most wonderfully kind.
Great meeting you, Matt
1331 Shea Inlet
Thanks for this video!!
Why does the US presbyterian churches usually have GAs every year? Here in Brazil ours meet only every four years.
A regra é ter todo ano, na maioria das denominações. Como alguém que foi no SC22 da IPB eu imagino que por baixo uma reunião dessa custa 3 a 4 milhões de reais, não temos como bancar isso anualmente. A IPIB, muito menor, faz bienalmente sua AG.
Agora o que é bem incomum é termos um presidente/moderador por mais de 20 anos rs
Em tempo: anualmente temos a reunião da Comissão Executiva do SC, composta dos presidentes dos sinodos + mesa do SC.
É uma instância muito poderosa e, pelo que meu pastor (que participou da última) contou, é muito de alto nível. Aliás, por unanimidade até podem revogar resoluções do SC, e em matéria administrativa também podem dar a última palavra.
Eu arrisco dizer que seria como comparar uma Câmara (SC) e um Senado (CE/SC).
[Para quem usar tradutor]:
SC = Supreme Council = equivalente de uma Assembleia Geral na Igreja Presbiteriana do Brasil
Mas toda decisão da CE/SC que revogue ou altere uma decisão do SC é ad referendum até a próxima reunião do SC, correto?
Acho ótimo nossas reuniões serem a cada quatro anos. Impede que grandes mudanças sejam feitas rápido demais. E não vejo problema em um presidente que preside bem permanecer por muito tempo. Bons pastores ficam décadas em igrejas locais, a experiência de anos se converte em sabedoria e tente a melhorar o serviço desempenhado.
@@lucas_knox lol as someone using a translator, thanks for that last part! Very interesting how Brazil does it.
I think it’s because here in America, we are currently in what we call a “culture war,” which, along with technology, is causing our country to change drastically in a short amount of time. Because of this, some denominations have annual meetings in order to better address all these new (and old) problems and trends.
I agree we ought to constitutionalize the entire Directory of Public Worship. I hope we can eventually rid our denomination of “good faith” subscriptions to the Standards. In my estimation the presbyters that take this good faith subscription hold the Standards in low esteem, and there is little to stop ministers and elders from ordering worship/teaching which is contrary to the Standards. Thank you for your book… I plan to read it as soon as a can!
I am a member of a PCA Church in Edmonton Alberta. I found your review to be quite interesting as we as a congregation don'tt hear much but I guess most people wouldn't be interested anyway. Thank you for that.
I was there on Thursday! Lots of fun and very interesting debate. I also got to grab some great books. Cornstarch in a cemetery is now my favorite phrase lol
What happened to your punching bag?
Beard game always on point.
Thank you for the recap, brother.
what of overture 23
I hope you enjoyed Richmond VA!
Great work Pastor!
here in central america we have Decons and Deconeses in church but we do not let them preach in the church we have home churches and there we let them participate and preach but not in church
Why? That always leads to female pastors and elders. 😮💨
Home churches are churches, and arguably more so than what people normally refer to as "church." The New Testament church met in homes.
@@ElliotRitcheywhy did the New testament churches meet in homes?
Why is gathering in a central location together now any different than meeting in homes back then?
There is no where in Scripture where the words, "pastor" or "deacon" should be used as a title. Their use (even the restricted use here described) is nothing more to solidify the higher standing and to make sure the people recognize their "authority" over them.
reformed zoomer is a jew, but keep recruiting him to your school
?
@@classicchristianliterature what is the question? you just posted a question mark not denoting an actual question.
@@LarryLarpwell oh it’s not obvious what I’m questioning. Why are you calling him Jewish? What does that have to do with anything?
@@classicchristianliterature you tell me
@@LarryLarpwell I’m not the one making an accusation
PC Church is a wreck, Confessional 1689 Baptist Church seems to be the best Biblical option if you can find one.
did you even watch the video?
Being Baptist disqualifies you from being the most biblical.
@@jahnvantuttlesma8215 real
@@jahnvantuttlesma8215 Historical Baptist is the only Biblical position to take.
So... it's not the actual ministry the women does but the title which matters most. Right... There are literally women deacons in the Bible. LOL. Blessings to you.