Even before Ryle hits Lily there are issues with the relationship. He was obsessed with her after meeting her. Showing up announced, not letting her eat alone with her mom, the picture of her in the apartment, etc. Even if he wasn’t hitting her he would be controlling her every move and not wanting to be away from her. I don’t like how a lot of the violence against Lily involves Atlas. Like if it wasn’t for Atlas there wouldn’t be issues. Yes, Lily got lucky with Kyle, sometimes obsessed people don’t let it go.
Totally agree! I know a lot of readers adored Ryle from the beginning…I found him creepy right from the very start. The red flags were definitely all there! 🚩
One hole in the story, is Lily really the only person Ryle has ever been obsessed with? Doesn’t make any sense. Maybe because she turned him down initially and he’s not used to it and like the challenge.
@@Minnie6777 Abusive people stay abusive in different relationships, and I agree that this point wasn’t explored…Ryle is presented as workaholic and someone who never had time for a relationship but he’s around 30 so I find that kind of hard to believe! I guess he’s also not used to being rejected since he’s apparently super hot AND a doctor (not that this justifies anything in my opinion).
I've been watching a lot of reviews and people seemed to love Ryle and were shocked when he became abusive. I wasn't shocked at all. He took a picture of her and hung it in her home without her consent. He objectified her from the beginning. I saw so many red flags, I wasn't surprised at all when he became abusive. And also, why was his family just okay with him being an abusive asshole? And named a child after him?? His abuse is excused because he doesn't hit his children? I enjoyed the book but those parts were bizarre. If he wasn't a successful, handsome, rich doctor, he'd be in jail.
But his family didnt know that he was abusive before they had the baby (rylee) ? Correct me if im wrong. Thats why he was always concerned if lily told his sister about their fights. At the end allysa took lily’s side because she knew it was wrong but still loves him as her brother.
@rayselmayann the family wasn't explicitly told but they definitely had blinders on towards them. She came to dinner with a cut on her face and he did with cuts on his hand. They gave the most she hit a door excuse
I think Colleen did a good job of sharing the perspective of someone being abused, but the solution at the end of the book is problematic. We are getting a description of Ryle from Lily’s point of view. At the beginning, he shows significant red flags, like violently kicking the chair, begging Lily to have sex with him until she finally says yes, etc. While these actions are extremely noticeable, it can be easy to overlook it, like Lily did because we also see this wonderful side of Ryle in the beginning. I think it really shows how the red flags are present in an abuser, but it’s easy to overlook it and romanticize it in the beginning of a relationship. I also love the transition of Lily resenting her mom for staying with an abuser to Lily understanding how difficult it is to get out of an abusive situation. It shows how we can’t judge a book by its cover and how complex abuse truly is. I think Lily’s feelings of resentment are completely valid though. Where I think the book goes wrong: the solution, like you said. Ryle tried to rape her. I’d argue that he coerced her into having sex with him in the beginning (if he didn’t fall asleep). He literally abused her. How on earth is the solution allowing your kid around him? The reasoning is that her father never hurt anyone but the mom, but that’s not true. The father hurt Lily to the point where she had to go to the hospital the one time. He also beat Atlas nearly to death. Ryle was literally acting violent because he couldn’t control his anger when he first met Lily. If you realize he’s abusive and you realize you need to get out, how can you let your kid into that situation. I understand Lily’s complex emotions, but I don’t think that should be the solution at all. I know it comes from Colleen’s personal experience, but also I feel like it adds more trauma to the kid. You have this loving relationship with your father only to find out he tried to rape and did beat up your mom. In a way, I’d argue that’s still continuing the cycle to an extent. It’s showing that there should be a redemption and trust for abusers when there’s no evidence to prove he’s changed or gotten his anger issues in control. Yes, we can understand his trauma, but I don’t think that gives him an excuse or a pass. Also, I understand the perspective of Lily not going to the cops. A lot of women struggle with that, and it’s a good perspective to acknowledge. But, for a book that’s supposed to give the perspective of abuse, I think there needs to be some acknowledgment that going to the authorities is something that must be done because abuse shouldn’t be tolerated. However, I’m also conflicted because our judicial system is fucked up, and many many women do not get justice, so I don’t know.
This is an AMAZING comment and perspective! Thank you so much for sharing! I completely agree that Ryle is romanticized in the beginning as Colleen shows this wonderful side of him, and does a great job in portraying how easy it can be to overlook red flags and fall for a potential abuser…but the second part of your comment really hits the nail of where the book went wrong in my opinion.
The other thing is: these red flags are very romanticized in a lot of romance novels. I don't find most of these romantic, but I am sure I have written some of them, just as I've had relationships with red flags IRL (I think we all have). This kinda goes both ways--the readers who don't normally notice the red flags are the ones who most need to see the end of the abuse continuum. I don't really mind the first 90% of It Ends with Us, but I do agree the end is super irresponsible, especially because the book is being advertised as a great example of abuse. I think it has opened up a lot of people's eyes to abuse, people who would otherwise judge abused people for staying, but so many people are going to think abuse can end easily too.
It’s the Stockholm syndrome. Going to authorities is extremely hard because you hate and love the person at the same time. Even at the time I was packing my bags and leaving with my son, I could not get myself to go to the police station down the road. I wanted to get him a record so it would help with divorce and custody but could not make myself do it. I wasn’t hit or beaten but everything else was there and I just know that if I had stayed, there would have been beating too. He was just taking his time because I did call police on my ex who beat me. It’s just a really hard situation. Plus if any gaslighting was used, you can’t even think clearly. And you find excuses for that person, just like Lily did
My biggest issue with this book was the way an infertile character was written. So frustrating that a pregnancy magically happened just a few pages after the infertility was introduced and the character never really thought about the pregnancy after that. Very, very upsetting to read about this after going through infertility myself.
I was annoyed at how the pregnancy / infertility issue was resolved, but didn’t stop to reflect on it…however thank you for bringing this up. You’re right, it was treated horribly and really superficially! When I read about the pregnancy I remember actively rolling my eyes because of course the super rich white girl gets what she wants anyway (like come on, seriously??) Why introduce a serious issue if you’re just going to downplay it and magically resolve it a few pages later? As if it could just magically disappear anyway. It’s one of the various problematic issues that was wrapped up in a pretty little box, is easily resolved and everyone is happy in the end…so yes, I get that fiction is not necessarily realistic, but books don’t exist in a vacuum and I wish sensitive subjects were always treated with the care and respect they deserve. I’m sorry you had to go through such a traumatic experience, I hope you’re doing better now. ❤️
To be fair… (Though I understand where you’re coming from and I also had the same immediate thought)… she never said she was struggling with infertility she said “I can’t get pregnant”. They’re millionaires… If there was an infertility struggle he would’ve heard more about that and all they try. I think this was more of she wasn’t getting pregnant right away and she got the job to get her mind off of it,,. And they distraction from the stress of “trying” worked, like it does for some.
I don't get why they added that in. If you took out her saying I'm infertile it wouldn't change the book at all. Same with Lucy, if you took Lucy out it wouldn't change the book so why was she in it for her to hate
i find it problematic mainly because though colleen hoover does a good job in writing the perspective of an abused individual, she definitely caters to and prioritizes the romance. lily’s abuse felt like it was just a plot-line to get her with atlas in the end. that’s how it felt. just because someone is brave enough to write about domestic abuse doesn’t mean they’re portraying it correctly. as you said, the view of domestic abuse in this book is just flat out problematic. i do feel really bad for colleen for going through a similar situation, but i do think this book is problematic. the audience praises it highly for its realism and i think that’s another reason as to why i disliked the book.
Exactly, it feels like a way to get rid of Ryle so that she can be with Atlas, and everyone is happy in the end. Praising it as realistic is dangerous on a whole other level…
@@CHK12319thought the exact same everyone that says it’s problematic or had issues don’t want to see abuse and narcissistic behavior for what it is in real life this is the reason woman don’t leave this book is so real to a victim of DV i can relate with this 💯 she says she hasnt been in a DV relationship so obviously u have no idea what your talking about even as a lawyer u still have no idea. She should go read “safe” book
people were surprised about ryle? after he spent weeks saying the only thing he wanted to do was have sex with lily? to the point where he was basically harassing her about sex? that ryle?
The end was for sure terrible. Definitely not a safe situation for a child. The part that was the worst for me (and Ryle did a lot of terrible things) was when she needed medical care and chose a different hospital than his work because protecting his job was so important. I've seen abuse in real life, and that part just seemed waaay too "true life" where survivors don't report things or are intimidated/coerced into keeping quiet or how some aspect of the abusers life (work/power/etc.) is considered more important than the survivor's life. Also kinda reminded me of some US news stories about assaults at US college campuses with commentary about how "hurtful or disruptive" it is for the men to be named as rapists after the fact.
The part about her going to another hospital was horrifying! I understand the author’s intention in depicting this kind of situation and the inner conflicts it creates, but I personally found that the background exploration of Ryle’s character ended up romanticizing him and his actions (“He’s a good person who sometimes does bad things” -> we must all protect Ryle and help him because it’s not his fault) and to me that’s not ok because books don’t exist in a vacuum and can have a huge impact on people’s lives.
Gosh guys! Life doesn't have villains. That was the point! To show how things may happen behind the scenes. And we live our lives never knowing. To break the preconceptions we have about abusers being narcissists that will kill you one day and show that their people too. Which is why victims struggle to leave and report
I had an abusive husband. I had to run away before it got worse. Mind you I was pregnant when I ran away. I protected my daughter from him abs almost got punished for it. The judge saw how the dad left bruises on me 4 different times abs still denied supervised visits. She is only 2 and she doesn’t like being with him. In CA and I hate the legal system. I was granted a restraining order but my daughter is forced to go to her dads unsupervised and to this day. She doesn’t like it. Judges destroy lives of kids with no care in the world
I think this book is problematic too. I would like to add another problematic thing that no one talks about. I am talking about the moment when Ryle almost raped Lilly. In the version I read the book is on page 84. Here Ryle asks Lilly to have sex with him and she doesn't want to, but he keeps asking. In the end she accepts, but first she goes to the bathroom where she had a panic attack... I think this is sexual assault, and I am disappointed that no one talks about this.
I just want to say, that doesn't make the book problematic, as it provides a platform for a story of domestic sexual abuse to be explored. It opens conversations, and that is what makes a good piece of literature. If a certain scene makes you sick, then thats a little irrelevant, no offence. That part of the story wasn't unnecessary...that is how you educate people.
@@riyamalik3756 But you do know that there are still people defending Ryle and overlooking his actions, right? Despite knowing about these discussions? I wonder why that is so.
Very true. Sexual harassment isn’t only a physical act, it is anything related to being sexual. Ryle constantly insinuated sex when they were together, from the first time they had met. She repeatedly turned him down, firmly telling him she wasn’t interested - on multiple occasions, but to no avail. He continued to harass her and make sexual comments, at her workplace, and he even trespassed in her home, pressuring her. She repeatedly said she didn’t want to. When I was reading that scene when he came to her house, I remember feeling creeped. I remember thinking, if I were Lily would I feel the same as she did in this scenario? And I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t feel flattered, I wouldn’t feel sympathetic, I would feel scared. I would want Ryle to leave and I wouldn’t want to see him again.
Fellow lawyer here, I didn't liked the book either, for me it really romantizcized domestic abuse even though the author and readers who loved it say it doesn't. Even if it didn't through out 99% of the story, just the end alone does it. I find interesting how from the very first time we meet Ryle we already know he is violent, the first thing she learned about him was that he was violent, needless to say big red flag, that it's ignored because she finds him attractive. The fact that Ryle gets off free just because she does the comparison like ''My dad never hurt me, so Ryle would never hurt our kid either'' it's very naive for me, besides even in the best scenario where he doesn't hurt their child, he will most likely hurt his next partner.
Agreed, domestic violence repeats...Ryle suffering no consequences for his abuse (jail, trial, restraining order, ANYTHING) is essentially giving him free rein to be abusive to his next partner (and we don't really know whether he is prone to snapping with the child...as you mentioned a very naive perspective). To be honest though, I don't think anyone from our line of work could like this book and especially the ending...we're too trained to recognize the red flags and we deal with too many difficult situations on a daily basis to put up with the excuse that "there's no such thing as bad people, we're all just people who sometimes do bad things".
There are a lot of people that are abusive to their partners but completely adore their children. That was the point! To show that people do bad things but it doesn't make them monsters. I think it was genius of her to bring complexity to her characters instead of the black and white hero villain trope.
For me the Ryle character was the worst written. He is introduced as a Chad who is goal oriented n suddenly within just a few scenes he turns into an onlyfans level simp, begging her to have sex with him despite being a one night stand guy, who again is described as handsome enough to be with anyone yet still chooses the girl. (Self insert alert) He is described later to have moments where he spaces out during rage n stress etc. Yet this guy is a neurosurgeon. A job that is beyond stressful n requires a person to have a strong mind. The inconsistencies within the character annoyed the shit out of me. U can't just say he was in an 18 hour surgery only to have him snap and rape his wife over diaries that were clearly written years ago. Also what 16 year old is writing diaries to Ellen? To make matters worse his own sister hides secrets from him when atlas came to meet HER BROTHER'S wife. She barely knows this guy yet just gives him a pass, cause suprise, he's good looking too. Everyone in this Book is not only good looking but financially successful. It's almost like a cycle of events. Lily causes misunderstandings that'll make any guy get the wrong idea (in a bathroom with a stranger, keeping old diaries of ex where she specifically mentions that she will always love him, lying about her ex as if she actually has things to hide) and it happens 3 times at least. who won't be suspicious? What husband wont have questions? And then just in case his reasoning makes too much sense the writer will turn him into the hulk and reek havic just so it's clear that despite Lily's stupidity, at least we can all agree Ryle is worse. He turns from a stable smart caring person to a psychopath in unbelievable and unrealistic ways. Lily wasn't very realistic either. She opens a flower shop and is successful from the start. She gets a rich person to work for her and that person's brother just so happens to Ryle. She was so dumb that even when she stayed at atlas house she actually believed he had a gf even though there wasn't a single picture of her in the whole house where she lived for days, another twist that isnt one. Also atlas was just a straight up asshole. Who just forces his way into a women's room? What if she actually had to Pee? You don't just gonna force her to hold it while you ask her questions that you assumed a minute ago? From instalove to instamarriage to instadivorce. This book had all three. For me it became an instacrap.
This comment made my day, thank you!!! 😂😂😂 I also found Ryle to be very inconsistent in the way he is depicted, it doesn't make sense that he's a neurosurgeon - and therefore must have gone through tremendously stressful training - yet he just loses it at random times. What if something like that happens in the operating room? And WHY is everyone so rich and successful with basically no effort? I'm assuming that if Ryle hadn't been rich and successful and handsome and a neurosurgeon he wouldn't have gotten a free pass as he did but would be in jail. "From instalove to instamarriage to instadivorce" is the right way to put it. 😅
@@Skumaskot I think the whole "he's a neurosurgeon, but only blacks out when he's around his wife and not in surgery!" Is actually completely consistent with how real life abusers will try and find excuses for their behavior. The fact that the book doesn't explore this more is where I realized that the book is lacking a layer of reflection. It's clear that while the author has experience with abuse, she probably never truly processed or researched how it works. People don't "black out" in abusive periods, it's not a real thing. It's a common excuse though that abusers will use to try and separate themselves from their decision to use violence. It's funny, the whole "His character is inconsistent and confusing" feels very realistic, since abusers will use the confusion to keep their victims trapped! Where the book lost me is when in the end they just seemed to agree that he happens to have this weird trauma response from his childhood and that he's otherwise a good guy and that he'd agree to get the divorce for the sake of his daughter, because Lily explained his abuse problem to him the right way! Any ending where he didn't end up in specialized therapy or a program for abusers shouldn't be a happy ending. I'm scared for battered women, who might read this book and think they can tell their partner they want to separate, while they're holding their infant child. Most women are murdered by their abusive husbands when they try to leave. There are some topics, where it doesn't really matter too much when you get it wrong and give an unrealistic portrayal of how something would happen. A book about abuse is not one of them. It's not problematic, because abuse takes place in the book, but because it never questions the lies abusers will tell us to avoid responsibility.
@@SchatzInaoriginal What you say is so true. It bothers me a lot that in this book Hoover puts the responsibility of ending the cycle of violence on Lily, as if it were so simple: I don't want you to hit me anymore, so I'm leaving. When in real life most abused women don't leave their partners because they are terrified of what the abusers might do to them.
I was waiting for someone to talk about this! I also was very upset by Ugly Love... I'm working on a project looking at contemporary romance novels and I so appreciated this.
Thank you! Sounds like an interesting project…are you focusing on certain books and authors in particular? I’m still on the fence about reading more Colleen Hoover books, but since you mentioned it I’m probably going to stay away from Ugly Love 😅.
As some with an abusive father it was really triggering seeing Lily allowing Ryle to be alone with their child after what he had done. Me being a toddler didn’t stop my dad and it sure as hell doesn’t stop most abusive men. Most men who are abusive towards their wife are also abusive towards their kids. + lily’s dad did throw lily onto hard ice so hard that she needed to go to the hospital so saying that her father wasn’t abusive towards her is wrong. Lily is a bad mom for taking such a risk, a good mom would completely cut off the dad or only allow him to meet the child while she was also there
Completely agree...I'd totally forgotten about the hard ice incident and the fact that Lily was asked to lie about it at the hospital! Also, a toddler can't speak up following abuse. I'm sorry you had to go through that with your father, I hope you're doing better now ❤
Thanks for talking about this! I had a really interesting conversation with a colleague who had loved it. I said, he's supposed to be a classic romantic hero but from the get-go he's just walking around waving a giant red flag above his head, it makes me lose sympathy for Lily because I would just run a mile in the opposite direction. And a couple of days later the colleague said she'd thought about what I said and she realised most of the men she'd dated in the past, with hindsight were probably waving those flags and she didn't see them until it was too late. I think some people associate those behaviours not with red flags but idealised masculine behaviour like protectiveness, irresistible sexual attraction and authority in going after what they want. I think it's a book that works really well for those readers, but not so much for me! Same goes for Twilight...
The perspective with your colleague is actually really interesting! I think that certain red flags are culturally perceived as positive masculine traits, and it certainly doesn’t help when books romanticize and establish these traits further as positive traits. Take aggressively pursuing a girl as Ryle does in the book. It’s creepy full-stop in my opinion, but I think many women would be ok with it if they’re interested in the guy, and on the other hand would be totally freaked out if they’re not interested…but it’s still the same behavior!!
@@Skumaskot Exactly! I was just screaming 'No!' at the book every time Ryle walked through the door, but I think my brain just works differently to some people, like this colleague, when it comes to relationship dynamics. I was also deeply disturbed by the party scene when Lily tells the people on the roof she doesn't want to be alone with Ryle, and they ignore her. When she tells her friend she doesn't want to stay with Ryle and he also ignores her. He then carries her through the party to his bedroom with her protesting and not one person stops him. I'm older, and maybe in my mid twenties I would have behaved differently, but there's no way in hell I would stand back at a party and let that happen now, and I like to think I would have stepped in at their age too.
I just finish this book and I HATE it: so in the eyes of lily, Ryle is to dangerous for her but she let’s her daughter around him??? at the hospital she literally gave him a list of why her daughter shouldn’t be around him!(random but if the daughter one day gets a bf that Ryle doesn’t like is he going to beat him up like her dad did to Atlas? If i was her i would be asking myself this question)Also I personally thought Ryle sister/lily bff was WAY too forgiving of her brother. If I learn that my brother was abusif to his gf to the point of sending her to the fucking hospital AND tried to R her i would literally be disgusted with him/never talk to him again. Lily said that Ryle only hurt her just like her dad witch is false for both! Ex: Her dad send her AND Atlas to the hospital Also I would like to add he didn’t rape her when they had their last big fight but begging for sex until she says yes when he knew she didn’t want to truly do it for me is sexual assault Also maybe I miss that part if so I’m sorry but: having a abortion was never really considered, not that she HAD to do it but having a baby with your abuser ties you to them forever no matter what so I was surprised it wasn’t even a question specially since she said herself she wasn’t really ready for it she only said yes because Ryle ask to try You talked about how you dont know when the abuser is going to act violent and it made me think about: what’s gonna happen when Ryle learns that Lily is dating Atlas… he’s definitely not going to take it well to learn that the men he HATES is co raising his daughter… In the end the whole abuse situation was treated like a messy divorce and not like someone who was abused by a controlling monster Edit: sorry for any spelling mistakes English isn’t my first language
You make a good point about how Ryle would react after learning about Atlas and Lily dating…I hadn’t thought that far ahead but surely that cannot go over well! I also thought her dad didn’t just hit her mom, but ended up hurting Atlas as well because he just snapped…so who’s to say that Ryle won’t snap the same way? I don’t know, I was expecting so much from this book but many things just didn’t sit right. Thank you for adding your perspective!
@@shoaibjalilyes definitely! Also, her father almost beat Atlas to death and suffered no consequences so it isn’t true that he was abusive and violent ONLY towards Lily’s mother…
I totally agree! Moreover, CoHo constantly goes down the easiest route. Lily is the perfect victim, for example, in that she never physically fights back/uses self defense. I'm in law school and interested in family law/custody/etc. and it's really shocking how easiy abusers can turn the whole thing around when they have evidence that the victim also got physical, even if its just in self defense. Ryle turns out to be a good coparent for the daughter. Ryle doesn't get violent when Lily tells him that she'll leave him for good. In that sense, he's very atypical for an abuser. He also isn't really emotionally abusive in the sense that he doesn't try to isolate Lily from friends and family. He's okay with her being financially independent etc. Very unbelievable in my opinion.. It's especially harmful in my opinion, that CoHo paints mothers who don't want joint custody with their abusive exes as women who put their own well being over their children's relationship with their father. She fails to understand that a lot of abusers aren't perfect parents. Even if they don't attack their children physically they might use them to get revenge on the mothers. Like threatening the mothers whenever they come pick up the kids and so on... It's spot on that CoHo just conveniently ties everything up in a nice bow.
Totally agree with your thoughts! I think CoHo just wants a non-messy ending, and it’s convenient for everyone if Ryle is just the perfect dad who “happened” to be violent with her (and I’ve seen reviews where people empathize with Ryle because he’s so nice, the violence must be a fluke). It’s not realistic and paints a “wannabe” picture of what coparenting with an abusive parent should aspire to look like (in the land of unicorns…)
Thank you so much for writing this comment! It helped me a lot. This subject souldn't be romanticed at all. I am worried teenagers would draw the wrong conclusion. This book is not more than a pulp fiction... I'm glad educated peolpe give opinions, and they don't care the hype at all. I loved this: "Lily is the perfect victim...yeah there's no such thing. I never had bruises, only aches, he was so cautios, he told me once, that he is trying to teach me!!!! with the abuse, and said to me that I should me grateful he counciosly never used all of his physical power on me, because otherwise I would be dead already...and then he laughed at me...
Just finished this audio book after listening to it for a little over a month. I found it basically on accident, since I've never heard of it before and UA-cam auto play started it. I'm glad I stuck it out. Ryle's and Lily's relationship felt so real to me, which makes sense since it was based off of the author's parents. But, there were a few times (even before the abuse happened) where I was a bit iffy of Ryle. Like I was just waiting on something bad to happened because of the way things went. He sometimes shows up unannounced, tracked where she lived, took lots of pictures of her, brought her gifts for no real reason other than to say 'he loved her' and this all happened in the first few months of their relationship. Those things are fine I guess but something about it seemed more like a love bomb (especially since Lily didn't do those things for him). That he KNEW he was going to do something bad eventually and was doing all this good stuff before hand in the hopes that she'll forgive him afterwards. I felt this way also because of Allison, since in the beginning of their relationship she told Lily to 'Be careful'. This tells me that Ryle sometimes lays hands on people for minor things and he has a history of abuse/ losing his temper (This is shown in the beginning as well when he throws a chair upon first meeting Lily) When they suddenly got married, I felt like yelling at the screen. Because it literally did not make any sense. During the plane ride to Vegas is the only times that they talked about their future. But since they agreed on everything throughout that ride, she felt as if everything was going to be fine. It was infuriating because it felt as if they were going to wing an already unstable relationship. It felt like the writer wanted them to be married so badly that she just made it happen without any forethought. There were a few times were their relationship really made me think though. There were a few times where, after the abuse, I was really upset with Lily for even thinking about taking him back. But I like the way the author broke down her thought process. How 'oh it may have been partly my fault', 'we were drinking', and 'this isn't usually like him'. She's completely right. It's so easy for me to judge her since I've never been in a abusive relationship to wonder why they won't leave or why the guy hits her. And I hope I never really do but reading (or listening) to this really put things in perspective for me. With that being said, I wish that Ryle had more consequences for his actions. Because besides from getting a divorce from Lily, there really isn't any. Lily didn't file a report from her (almost?) sexual assault or the times he beat/hit her. She purposely didn't go to the hospital that he worked at because she didn't want his co-workers to ask questions (going to a further hospital after getting beat by Ryle). Every step of the way he gets protected. Since the book doesn't go into detail about how Allison and Marshall reacted, it seems as if he is also on good terms with them as well and gets to be an active part in his child's life. But yet, for some reason, the author writes the ending as if Ryle is finally beginning to understand that he doesn't get another chance and gravity of what he did. I understand that Lily is trying to take things one day at a time BUT Ryle has shown time and time again that he has moments of extreme rage where he cannot control himself. And she want to share custody???? Her reasoning behind it is because her father never hit her, Ryle won't hurt Emmerson either. But Ryle isn't her father, so that doesn't make much sense. Ryle needs therapy, and its interesting that this was never brought up in the book (at least not that I remember). Lily should get therapy too instead of jumping into another relationship with Atlas. She has lots of unresolved issues dealing with her father (shown by how she compares almost ever guy she meets to him), her mother (was afraid of being like her), and now, Ryle. The two abusers' (Ryle and Lily's father) that are featured in this story get away with what they did. I'm not sure if it's a ploy by the author to get those who are experiencing abuse to speak up (it doesn't read that way) or a oversight, but it really shouldn't be that way. I'm still glad that I listened to this book, but now that I look over my review, I never really liked their relationship.
Wow, such an in-depth amazing comment, thank you for sharing! ❤️ Ryle and Lily both need therapy in my opinion and you’re right, I don’t think this was ever brought up during the book. I think Ryle only asked Lily to help him with anger management, if I remember correctly, but no professional therapy was ever discussed. I agree that Lily’s thought process was interesting and I appreciate the author’s attempt to show us what was going on in her head at the time…but the fact that no one suffered consequences for anything was maybe the thing that bothered me most.
@@claudia_965 Hadn’t he quit therapy by the time he’s in a relationship with Lily though? I feel like the therapy he did as a child addressed completely different issues. Maybe I’m mistaken, it’s been a while since I read the book!
@@Skumaskot I don’t know if it’s mentioned whether he continued it or not, but it was for the trauma relating to why he became violent. They could both definitely do with more therapy tho, don’t get me wrong.
Honestly as a person who has been in an abusive relationship, this book really resonated with my experience. Not every abusive relationship is escalated to the point of the victim being killed, and often the relationships just aren't built in the right way. I think this book really shines a light on these cases, and made me feel more validated, as I didn't feel like my ex partner was bad enough of awful enough for me to call him an abuser. This story is for people who are like me, and its nice to see that and feel validation for the way I've healed. I know you've seen the worst case scenario, but as a person who was in a bad situation but not the worst this book is very important to me. Your opinion is right in that in a lot of cases this approach isn't safe, and I'm glad you've made this video :)
Yes!!! Although I agree with this videos take and her points, as some one who was raised in an a house hold with domestic violence I really resonated with the story, it was really realistic at least to me in regards to what I went through as a child seeing my mother in this situation and still hearing her talk about it. Overall both the book and this video did resonate with me though!
As a lawyer that works w family and criminal law I agree 100 %. She should have filed a police report and involved authorities to get supervised visitation. In the sequel Ryle actually chokes her out of jealousy again. She left no paper trail of his abuse and he suffered no real consequence besides not being married to her still. That kind of abuse does not always end with a divorce. It can worsen it. Women get killed for leaving and being with another man. Men take it out on their child instead and often use the kid as a tool to control the mother still. I really regret that Lily saw it fit to leave a defenseless child with someone who tried to rape her and blacks out with rage.
I'm so sorry I missed your comment! Anyway...I know right? This is exactly how I feel. I get that situations aren't black and white but when you work in a legal profession you're trained to see the red flags. It's like knowing a train wreck is going to happen and being completely powerless to stop it. I haven't read the sequel and honestly I don't think I will, Colleen Hoover is just not my cup of tea. It's not so much the fact that she depicts a problematic relationship, it's the way she does it, like it's almost romanticised? I recently read My Dark Vanessa by Kate Elizabeth Russell, and that book also features an abusive, dark, deeply disturbing relationship but nothing about it is romanticised or trivialised, even though the protagonist decides to never report anything and is actually still in contact with her abuser many many years later...such a wonderful book! Have you read it? The fact that Lily left her child with him is beyond me. Really? A toddler that can't even speak?? With someone who blacks out with rage?? Couldn't she at least have someone supervise...?
I understand what your saying but do realize that Hoover was writing based on her own outcome and understand how the ending made sense to her. However I also thought that no one would share custody with an abusive ex partner.
I understand her perspective but still wasn’t crazy about that ending 😕…it’s naive to think “my dad never abused me so surely Ryle won’t abuse my child and will be a great father”. Also, sharing custody would mean being often alone with a man who has demonstrated time after time that he can snap at any time. I’m glad her personal outcome was a positive one though!
I found reading the authors note at the end very insightful. The author based the book on some of her own experiences in which her father was abusive to her mother but was still able to have a good relationship after her parents divorced. Abuse cases are all different, and I get that this book didn’t have the best ending in terms of what was the best option for the child but I feel like the book has a very real and nuanced take on how people deal with abuse
I feel like the message the author is trying to put out there is that it is and it sounds logical to leave a toxic relationship when you're not part of it (When you're an observer). But when you're actually in the relationship its hard to cause this one person makes you feel really good or maybe even makes you the best version of yourself but the very person makes you feel the worst. To be honest I feel like that's why most women stay in abusive relationships. People outside the relationship aren't really feeling how you feel and can easily make a logical decision. And maybe the purpose of the book is to create awareness and encourage people to be like lily and actually make a decision to leave her abuser unlike her mother.
It is very hard to leave a toxic relationship, but I feel like the author wrote it in a way that ended up romanticizing Ryle, despite giving us a lot of Lily's perspective. At least she got out though!
@@Skumaskot Maybe she was trying to tell us that not all abusers are complete monsters. They also have good characteristics that make you want to say in the relationship. What do you think?
@@ngosamwelwa2474 I think most abusers have some good qualities that make it really really hard to leave, and that it’s very easy to judge from the outside but very difficult to deal with from the inside. Lily made the right choice to leave, and that’s definitely a positive aspect of the book. However, it’s the ending that I wasn’t crazy about, it seems a bit simplistic. I don’t think leaving an infant who cannot speak or defend herself with an abuser who snaps at random times is the best choice…
I usually do not comment on videos, but I do have to say that im thankful you did this video. In my experience I bought the book because a lot of people on TikTok were saying it was amazing, but when I ended the book I couldn't understand (still don't understand) why was Ryle so praised. Even thought I consider the book is overall well written as you said, it ends up being really unrealistic. I also think we are forgetting about the fact that teens are getting this book, and I think that's problematic to, because they might understand that relationship is okay and if some one hits you then you should stay until it gets so bad that you have to go to the hospital. I might be overreacting but I think it's important to understand that not only grown people are reading this book. Sorry for my broke English im still learning 😥
What you said about teens getting the book is exactly what I meant. I worry the books paints a romanticized picture of a problematic and toxic relationship, where, as you mentioned, it’s ok to stay and ignore the red flags until it gets so bad that you need the hospital, and even then all you need to do is break up with the guy and everything will be fine. Your English is great! 😊
A lot of abuse victims are people who have lost their self-worth along the way or had little sense of self from the beginning. The abuser would thrive by making us feel worthless, incompetent, wrong or broken. Unworthy. (I’ve only yet watched the movie so I don’t know for sure whether Ryle did that or not) So even when victims realise they have been abused, they are met with two things: one, their own lack of self worth, which means they don’t want to destroy someone’s life,, no matter how badly the other person may have changed the trajectory of the victim’s life. And second, the victim blaming culture, which puts the entire responsibility on the victim to recognise the abuse they are going through, while they are going through abuse and probably living in fear and other mental health conditions that result from the same abuse, while also, most probably, managing other responsibilities like job or child care. (Two reasons why I think people don’t report their abusers to their authorities.)
I love Hoover bc she gets me so hooked in a story, I HAVE to find out what happens. Doesn’t necessarily mean I like what actually happens .. the fact there are so many positive reviews for her books is crazy to me. Most of the story lines are pretty toxic in my opinion, but she’s popular so everyone likes it? Thanks for the honest review!
I think she’s a great writer so she’s able to craft these storylines that - as you said - really keep you hooked. I haven’t read any other book by her but I definitely think the storylines in this specific book are toxic…and to be honest my expectations were SO high for this book because everyone seemed to love it so much, so it was sort of a double disappointment. Do you have any recommendations for her other books?
So I remember reading Hopeless in high school and I loved it so I just reordered it with Losing Hope. not sure how much my taste has changed in like 8 years lol. But I recently ready Maybe Someday and Ugly Love. Honestly, (I don’t want to spoil anything) I didn’t not like what she did with the characters in those books either. I really have a confusing relationship with this author😂 I finish the books in a day and I’m so invested but I find myself asking why she had her characters do those things. I think I will save her for when I’m in a reading slump and I need to stay hooked.
@@melanievazqu3z I think I might pick up Verity next, it sounds like my cup of tea! From what I’ve read about Ugly Love, it veers into the same territory as this one and I’m 90% sure I wouldn’t like it, so I think I’ll stay away. Believe it or not I hate giving negative reviews 😅…I’ll check out the other ones you mentioned though!
I often find myself in a dilemma about how much can I judge the writer for the book. Meaning how would I know what the intent for writing a story like this was or if it was just a fictional story and nothing more. I thought about this a lot when reading Wuthering heights. So many reviews about how much people hated this book for having such awful, toxic characters yet I found it more realistic than a lot of the characters we meet in books….not to say people should learn form them or live life like them although I think that’s rather obvious for the reader.
I often find myself in the same dilemma and normally choose not to elaborate further, but I couldn’t stop thinking about this specific book…I think what bothered me most is not the fact that the characters were toxic, but rather the fact that everything was resolved easily and cleanly, and everyone got a happy ending. This I did not find realistic at all. In fact, to me it was a naive, oversimplified and dangerous perspective to promote. Wuthering Heights to me always felt like a tragedy through and through, the characters don’t get any kind of respite or positive ending, and the author doesn’t romanticize the toxicity of her characters. Context and culture at the time of writing also come into play. I guess for me it depends on the book but you make a valid point!
Dexter is a bad guy in his novels. Ryle is an abuser in this novel. It's called a story. Lilly made bad choices, but leaves in the end. Isn't that a positive lesson to readers? In real life, many don't leave at all.
There are foundations set out from the start showing red flags regarding Ryle... first thing lily sees is Ryle losing his temper and physically taking it out on an object, he has obsessive tendencies, he has obvious commitment issues that he knows the root of etc
Bestie i'm not a colleen hoover fan. However, I've worked in family law and let me tell you that the family court doesn't give af about abuse toward mothers. Judges often prefer for a child to have contact with both parents. Even in some cases where there was abuse toward the child, it's very hard to get sole custody. Even if Lily did get a restraining order, that doesn't always cover the child.
I think it very much depends on the country…as I mentioned I’m not a US based lawyer, so thank you for your perspective! It’s taken quite seriously where I live :) In any case, what did you think of the book?
Question for you though….if Lily pressed criminal charges, wouldn’t Ryle potentially end up in jail anyway? Before any battle for custody etc. I guess what bothered me most is that she deemed it safe to leave a toddler with him, aside from any legal discussion, which as you mentioned may frequently not be favorable to the mother anyway.
I identified with this book and it really hit home for me. My Father was the same way as Lilly's Father. He was verbally and slightly physically abusive to my mom but NEVER to me so my mother got us out before it could get to that point. He still never was that way to me the whole 27 years he was in my life before he passed away in 2015. I was also in an abusive marriage (verbally never physically) and I got out myself and now we are much better friends than we ever were together. It is so hard for some people to understand but it can work. This book was great IMO and I personally could relate a lot. But I know not everyone can.
Personal experiences have such a huge role in determining whether we enjoy a book or not…I’m glad you identified with it and liked it, I can see why even if my opinion is different. 🙂
I loved the book. But it destroyed me inside because of what this book made me feel. Some times it felt like I was romanticizing DV but after reading the authors note I understood that was the whole point.
I can see why Lily would want her daughter to have a relationship with Ryle. I can understand. HOWEVER, having grown up in a family where my father was incredibly abusive towards me and my mom, Lily's decision is ultimately very likely to be damaging. Why on earth would you leave your child with a person who cannot control their anger and has proven multiple times that they are abusive, especially when said child cannot articulate how they are being treated. The best thing my mom did was gain full custody of me as a child. Even as an adult now, it terrifies me when I think about what could have happened if she hadn't. Yet this was the conclusion of the book: give the abuser a second chance.
I'm so sorry you had to go through such a horrible situation. As you mentioned, Lily's decision was likely to be damaging, as well as irresponsible. The child was so young that she couldn't have spoken up anyway! If anything, the message of this book should have been DO NOT give abusers a second chance. I'm glad your mother was able to gain full custody of you as a child and I hope you're doing well now.
Agree, plot completely oversimplifies intense themes. Divorce involving children almost never goes well. Thinking the situation through before marriage is a message our society needs! Kelly
The representation of domestic abuse survivors is important, which is what this book delivered, but I agree that it isn't realistic to have idealistic expectations of how a woman or man might act if they get out of a toxic, manipulative, and toxic relationship (especially like Lily giving joint custody to Ryle).
@Skumaskot I stumbled upon you via ur “unpopular opinion” thumbnail…so keep doing these types of reviews cause I most definitely agree with you and wish you would write a book to “what would you tell your daughter” real life red flags and step by step instructions on how women should protect themselves.Thoroughly SUBSCRIBED! 😊✌️✨
Honestly I read this book because it was EVERYWHERE and EVERYONE was crying over it. I wanted to cry too! I read the book in two days and never seemed to see why people bawled over this 🤷🏻♀️
I agree with you that Lily should have reported Ryle, the almost rape situation was very serious and it should have been the right thing to do. However, as the lesson I got from this book, it is hard to make a decision like that, maybe it's a bit simple to say "oh she should have done that" when we haven't been in a situation like that, I just imagine it and yes, I've always believe that going to the police is what I should do, but in reality, living that must be very different and a very hard choice to make knowing what that entitles (sometimes you get no consecuences for the abuser, you get very judged along the way, I feel you can get more traumatized and damaged from it). It shouldnt be like that, everyone should get justice, but reality is sadly not like that, at least here in my country it is very difficult to get the help or solution you should get from acts like these. Again, I totally agree with you, I wouldn't leave my child with a man that has been that violent either, I think we all know what its the right answer, but it also portrays something that usually happens. Maybe it would have been helpful to show a bit more of that internal dilemma of going to the police, to hint that it was what should have been done but she ultimately didn't decide that (but again, it's colleen hoover's experience so I get why she didn't go that way) But thank you for sharing your opinion!! Maybe we don't totally agree but that's the magic of books, it makes you think and debate what we read!
I agree that it’s a very complicated situation and it’s hard to make the right decision, and this was portrayed well by the author…if there had been more internal exploration maybe I would have a different opinion, but the decision to leave her child with him and not worry too much just rubbed me the wrong way! Thank you for sharing your perspective in such a kind and thoughtful manner though, it’s always nice when people remember that you don’t need to love the same books and have the same opinions in order to talk about books❤️.
I don’t know how I felt about this book, did I love it no it’s sad and hard and real, this book didn’t trigger me like the second did which i found so unrealistic and ugh. Having been emotionally, verbally and pretty much every kind of abused but actual hitting the second book I found so much harder to read when it was suppose to be her love story with Atlas. It was awful. I’ve been in this position and I got full custody of my kids right away, now their safety was more important than mine period. I didn’t not find this book realistic at all from my abused background and the solution was not and if you read the second book it’s worse. Sharing custody with your abuser is bonkers and in the second he’s still a narcissist and involved and just brought up bad memories for me in my life.
You rock thank you. I thought in the book the character did so much to protect herself but actually we can do more. Sad truth goes: lots of people are so confused of what's going on that they choose to stay in the circle of abuse. I'm not saying it's justified. It's not.
And abortion is not mentioned ONCE. Lily just decides to keep her rapist, abusive husbands baby that she names after his dead brother - that he killed!!! Ryle literally begs to fuck her, which is sexual harassment and then Lily just forgets everything Ryle has done and feels safe leaving her child with him alone????? Insane. Colleen Hoover has serious mental problems for writing this book honestly 😂 The book was boring, it took me 3 months to finish. The only character I liked was Atlas and he's barely in the book. I didn't even finish the second one because it was so bad. Colleen is an awful writer, no depth to her characters at all. But she is better at writing side characters. I give IEWU 1/5 and ISWU 0/5. I personally have been in an abusive relationship. 2 months after we broke up I saw him out at a bar. I literally had a panic attack right outside on the street, just for seeing his face. This book is not at all realistic and it's so sad Colleen decided on that ending. Ryle gets absolutely no consequences for his horrible actions. It's really dangerous writing a book like this. Especially when the target is teenage girls.
I’m so glad you made this video! I agree! I would have loved to see Ryle getting some help.. or be held accountable for the abuse. that’s the only real “solution” there should have been.
But we are told he is in therapy. I mean the theme is going around what he said at the beginning "no such thing as bad people. Just people who do bad things"
men are different when you do not live with them, my ex husband was nice and great, and we lived together, he was great, but, the minute we got married he changed on the same day, we had many great months, but as soon as we married he changed and then later became violent. he cried like crazy and was sorry, but that gets old. then he started blaming me, LOOK what you made me do. etc. so I had a mind job done on me, then my family took his side, so I got a double whammy, I still stood strong, and dumped them all. later he beat up his girl friend after me and took a gun and shot up the place and got on the front page of the newspapers, so I took that to court and got full custody of our three kids. I had the Navy remove him a few times from the home, so he cheated on me the entire time. if it gets bad, get out, do not stay and forgive, and do not do therapy, it never works. LEAVE. I knew a woman, who was planning on leaving her husband and he shot her, so leaving is a very dangerous time with abusive men. That is the most dangerous time of them all. some kill you over child support, some kill you over the money or property, some kill you over leaving them. Leaving is a very dangerous time. I took no money and we split our belongings. he never wanted to pay child support and live in another state so he did not do it. If a man hits you, protect your children.
Unrealistic? Yes. But reality often exceeds fictions. I believe the reason behind this book's immense popularity is its relatability. Coming from an abusive household, I can understand Lily's certain choices that you couldn’t get (thankfully). I've read the book quite some time ago. I remember being overwhelmed with all sorts of emotions. I felt like wailing, I wanted to go and hug my mother tightly and say sorry to her for not being patient with her moments of being indecisive fearful and tearful. Even trying to describe those emotions is taxing. This is a book most won’t re-read for this very reason. It never leaves you. I must add that there is no question of hating you for our different opinions on IEWU. We differ in our experiences & situations in life and that difference surely plays a part in forming our perspective.
I’m sorry you had to go through a similar situation, I truly hope you’re doing better now! ❤️ I (thankfully) couldn’t understand Lily’s choices and I’m glad for that…books are so subjective and the different opinions different people can have on the same book is something that never ceases to amaze me! Thank you for sharing your opinion in such a respectful way.
It is so much harder to see in the moment. I do agree that the end glosses over and makes it look a lot more easy than it usually is. I would feel uncomfortable letting a child be around him. In the end, restraining orders all depend on if the other party is capable and willing to follow the restraining order. I have experience as a DV advocate and could recognize a LOT of the tactics used as well as the signs of unhealthy relations. The big thing is that Ryle is charismatic and knows how much to push beyond boundaries then walk back a couple of steps. Consistently pushing status quo. I liked the back for the signs, signals and experience of DV. I think Atlas was a pointless addition and the Rule is meh. Not a romance imo, more of a thriller. The Ellen thing in the diaries was also weird and boring. I would also encourage anyone in this situation to seek out a local DV agency, the police or medical personnel.
I agree with you fully, a restraining order doesn’t always work because many don’t follow them…but at least it’s a first step! I’m curious, which tactics did you recognize? The Ellen thing was kind of weird… 😅
@@Skumaskot I will message the tactics in the morning(passion zone for me, yes I am a nerd 😜). Sometimes it is the write step. Sometimes it pisses them off and escalates things. Really depends on the situation. Also, this requires police coming quick and catching a violation in my state. Can be a call text or whatever too. But say the person drops then dips before police get on scene, then there may be nothing that happens
I completely agree with you. I’m really struggling to finish the book even though I know the way it ends because it’s driving me insane and I’m getting mad at Lily. She absolutely should not allow him to be alone with the baby. For all the reasons you mentioned, I have been feeling the same way! And he really doesn’t deserve her kindness or forgiveness.
As I mentioned I haven't (and I'm obviously glad for it). But I'm glad when people feel understood and comforted through reading, it's one of the wonderful things about books.
@@Skumaskot I completely understand where you’re coming from! I don’t know if you know but Colleen Hover came out with a sequel for this book and it actually addressed issued and problems you mentioned in this video as well!
@@Skumaskot yes and I have! In this book she actually explained the Lilly hired a lawyer and tried to get a full custody and so on. She also doesn’t allow her baby to be alone with Ryle overnight which very much inline with what you explained here with the experience you have with your own client. Colleen Hover definitely addressed a lot of questions that we have and extend the story to show that it wasn’t a happy and easy ending as we all thought.
@@sonokoful thank you for the recommendation, I’ll definitely consider reading it! From what you told me it sounds more promising than It Ends With Us (although if she felt the need to write it, it also means she knew she hadn’t addressed everything fully).
I personally liked the writing, the character of Ryle and the way Lily was head over heels for him was very believable but it didn't rub me the right way that the book was so heavily focused on romance. I feel like the focus was on Atlas way too much and it didn't stress the seriousness of being in an abusive relationship... The ending also, with her going immediately back to Atlas definitely didn't feel right. I get that she wanted to show that there always be people who treat us right and we have to settle with them but this was just too quick. Maybe because I'm not a romance fan and I picked this book because I've heard it was different from what Colleen usually writes but the romance was prevalent even here.
I think part of the problem is that this wasn't written to be a romance book but, as you said, it was heavily focused on romance and ended up having a romance-y ending (i.e., a happy ending for all characters, typical of the romance genre, whereas Colleen was aiming to write a contemporary book about abuse). So the ending also rubbed me the wrong way because I would have liked to see Ryle suffer some sort of consequence (anything really, even just having his sister sit in every time he took care of the child), but we got...nothing. And Atlas was just WAY too quick, I don't think anyone recovering from abuse could easily trust another person romantically (also, Atlas was abused as a child, so going by the book's logic, wouldn't that put him at risk of ending up in an abusive relationship too, either as abuser or abused? To me personally that doesn't make a huge amount of sense, but it is a point the book makes). On a different note, I'm not a romance fan either but I have recently found a few romance books I enjoyed (for example, the Brown Sisters books by Talia Hibbert). What genre do you usually read?
I saw a lot of the red flags and took it as Lily kind of being blind to the red flags - the way that a lot of us can sometimes overlook certain things when our emotions are entangled. I haven't seen anyone talk about the way that Ryle love-bombs her though. And I found it to be very similar to the way that she described her own father's behavior. She said that he would be amazing for a week or two after a big argument. And Ryle was very much the same. He would do things (or buy things) when he was feeling guilty to make up for whatever he did - even before the abuse started. Ryle described himself as very selfish and I think that showed in a lot of his actions. He was so adamantly against a relationship but everything that he did, from the beginning, was done intentionally knowing that it would make her fall for him. I think he was incredibly selfish and controlling but shadowed it by showering her with gifts and feel-good moments.
There's a saying in Italian - which I find particularly fitting - to describe being blind to something because you're emotionally entangled in the situation. It's "hai i prosciutti davanti agli occhi" (literally "you have hams in front of your eyes" -> and these hams prevent you from seeing anything clearly lol). Lily is perceiving a distorted reality, and doesn't want to accept what is going on because she can't see clearly...Ryle is such a huge red flag from the moment we meet him, and everything he does is creepy and controlling in my opinion. I don't understand why people love him so much. As you mentioned, Ryle is selfish and I think all the "nice things" he does (i.e. lovebombing Lily with gifts and attention) are only partly for Lily, but mostly to make himself feel better about whatever he's feeling guilty for.
The problem with regulating a persons access to their children based on there treatment of other people is that there is no scientific basis for it. The "ice man" who was a prolific hired serial killers in the US, had a really calm and idyllic family life with his children in the suburbs. A women who drinks and loses jobs, steals from friends and embezzles from their companies does not necessary abuse their children in that way but their is a much higher correlation between childhood neglect and even casual drinking in mothers. So every women who goes though a divorce that has a DYI should lose custody of their children? Some women will put men in very dangerous situations by putting men in conflict that they are in relationships with leading to their husband getting assaulted or killed, for attention or other benefits, does this mean they will do the same for their children? So I agree that children should have loving and support environments with great parents but this is not actually realistic, and regulating access to children unless their is abuse via a parent is also alienation which has devastating results long term. Pick this scenario that went though the courts not too long ago, a married women was fighting with her husband over massive finical overspending on credit cards, she opted to start and affair with a felon that had been released after a manslaughter conviction. The man carried a firearm that the wife was aware of. She repeatedly told the man she would leave her husband but the husband threatened her life, which she admitted later to be false. The husband discovered the affair happening in their apartment and a fight insured where he was shot three times. The couple got a divorce, should the child they had go to the father because of that situation? One of the shots that was discharged went though the wall and killed their 8 month old child. So there was no child custody decision. But in other cases that are similar should the father get custody if the mother is creating dangerous and abusive situations, do you see the dilemma. If the court starts regulating custody based on relationship behavior they are siding with custody based on the moral treatment of the spose and not the best interest of the child.
I feel like there is no way she would call Atlas for help after that last fight. This dude just went through all of her stuff, read all of her diaries, all bc of Atlas talking about naming the restaurant after her in the article. He attacked her bc of it. There is no way she would risk that and it felt like she kind of glossed over that .
I think you gotta read the sequel it starts with us because it kinda raps your opinion in the book and I think you might like it better if you read that too
that was the point to' showcase a problamatic character. the story wouldnt be great if he was not. people like that really exist irl. this book was kinda eye opener to me because the cycle needs to end ( saying from personal experiences ) ryle's situation can be explained from a psychological pov ( well thatv doesnt mean that im justifying his actions )
i thought it was problematic but like,, i also thought that was the point. it was showing an abusive relationship from the victims point of view. As a victim of abuse i thought it was realistic, going back to your abuser is something that happens, it’s awful but it happens. idk i thought it was problematic but that was also the point-??
Maybe that was the point, but too many elements didn’t sit right with me, especially the fact that everyone got a happy ending with no consequences. However, I think it’s difficult to deal with sensitive topics such as abuse, certainly can’t fault the author for trying. Did you enjoy the book? I hope you’re doing better now!
coho did a self reflection on lily because she grew up in a similar environment never did she mention that this was a general case and this book was never a self help book to give advice it was just a fictional story
I know it’s fiction, which is why I’m explaining the reasons why I personally didn’t like it, and I don’t expect everyone to agree with me since books are so subjective. If you enjoyed the book that’s great for you! 😊 I’m sure my opinion won’t take away from your enjoyment.
I have to say, I both really liked and really disliked the book, my opinion changed on it multiple times throughout. Certain things were too unrealistic, e.g all the young adults in this book being EXTREMELY, effortlessly successful. Not saying it’s impossible to become a neurosurgeon at Ryle’s age, or impossible for Alyssa to marry a millionaire and live in a gorgeous apartment, or even impossible to start off a business and have it succeeded and go off without a hitch (Lily and Atlas’ businesses). But it’s just extremely unlikely. It’s not relatable. However some parts were very realistic, especially Lily’s reactions to abuse and how she avoided doing certain things in order to not cause issues for Ryle and ruin his career/ life. Some people say it’s too realistic / problematic, but I have to give it to Colleen, sometimes uncomfortable truths have to be shown in literature in order to have the same impact on the reader. I think it would actually be more problematic for Lily to have acted any differently, because it would make women / men who are in that situation feel weak because they didn’t get out sooner or ‘fight back’. I think it really depends on how you view the world and relationships on how you perceive this book. I don’t think there’s really a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ way to interpretative this book, because abuse can be complex. I think Colleen painted Ryle out as such a handsome, caring man from the beginning because that’s what all victims are led to believe before they end up being abused and see the persons ‘true colours’. It was very realistic in some ways, and I think Colleen did a great job of dropping a lot of red flags before the abuse even started, e.g Ryle doing weird, obsessive things prior to the physical abuse. A lot of people found it difficult to let go of Ryle in the book and were upset it ended the way it did, but Colleen did that on purpose, because that’s how a victim actually feels. It’s hard to let go and come to terms with the naked truth. Overall I think it was definitely thought provoking and makes you reflect.
Exactly. The author put those red flags in - but if a person has never been taken in and subsequently emotionally trapped by a narcissist, they do not see what all those red flags are. They just see super hot “dangerous” sex, over-the-top Hollywoodish emotionally manipulative behavior (on the part of the abusive narcissist), very premature intimate (not sexual) emotional sharing - I.e. “naked truth” in the book. I wish some of these more naive readers could have this explained to them. They fall in love with Ryle because the author described the narcissist’s playbook too well. Makes me worried for these young ppl, they are ripe for the plucking for manipulative and toxic ppl.
I just want to let people who think using the term "problematic" loosely is okay, know that just because you didn't like a scene, does not mean it doesn't have relevance. That is how you educate and increase conversation about topics as important as domestic and sexual abuse.
For me personally it wasn’t the abuse scenes that I found problematic so much as the consequences (or rather lack thereof) of those scenes, that could have been handled better. Everything resolved for the best and no one suffered any real consequences (and in fact everyone got a happy ending), and I feel like that’s a dangerous message to send. But of course it you enjoyed the book that’s great, we’re all entitled to our opinions :)
@@Skumaskot that is real life. people do not suffer consequences of their actions sometimes. we don't live in an ideal world. the point of the book was to showcase that you can get out of an abusive relationship. there was no other point than that, and it delivered what it needed to. there are other books that showcase the aftermath of an abusive relationship and the actions you can take against someone. the thing is, what's problematic is people thinking there is an ideal way to resolve such issues is with legal action and not allowing your child to meet with their other parent. LIFE does not work that way, and people are complex enough to come up with different routes that work for them. I understand where you are coming from, but if lily were a real person, people would not be allowed to berate her for the path she chooses in the future. and so if this book is realistic, how is problematic?
To be honest sometimes you have to see your father even though he is abusive. My dad was abusive to my mom and they gave them joint custody. But you are correct. My dad ended up beating my mom again. 13 years ago. I have never seen my dad since by choice. But I texted him. He still wouldn't admit what he did even though I am a witness to it. Family court in the United States do not care, So I don't know if this is a fair book review because this happens in the United State everyday. There are many children who has visitations with their father even though they were abusive to their mothers. It is not a choice. I never read the book but it does seems a bit harsh because the ending did seem realistic because if she refused to let her child see her dad. There will be custody battles and the courts can and will force the child to visitations unless you can provide proof of the abuse.
As I mentioned, I don't live in the US so I don't know the specifics of court there. I'm very sorry you had to go through such a traumatic experience, I hope you're doing better now! Regarding Lily, there's one instance in the book where he assaults her and almost rapes her. I think he breaks her nose although I don't remember 100%. Anyway, she ends up in the hospital with multiple signs of abuse which clearly no nurse believes is the result of "falling down the stairs". Wouldn't that count as proof?
@@Skumaskot I am not trying to be mean. I did not mean to make your points invalid because I agree with you. on an idealistic level. In my case even though my mom showed proof of her broken jaw that he gave her and I even wrote what I saw that night, the judge still ordered supervised visitations. He said "The child shouldn't have a choice in the matter."Then my dad did not fall through on his deal so I did not have to go and visit him. Then a couple years later he filed to get custody of me. Which was a traumatizing experience but maybe that was when the proof actually worked or maybe he gave up on that. I don't know if he was just messing with her or really wanted custody of me. So, I did not have to see him. My dad tried to contact me through the years but he never admit to what he did or apologized. Go figure. I am sorry I made it seem like I hated your review. I loved your review even though I add me 2 cents and did not read the book and don't plan to. Your review came at the right time and gave me the validation I need. The negative reviews of a book did. I know that I am not crazy for being uncomfortable with visiting my dad for my own safety even though others are like "forgive you father". "You need a father" Including my mom before she died. But that was only because she was dying. I was just saying that in the U.S. it is not that simple. Fathers and mothers can still have court ordered visitation even when they sexually abuse their own child with proof. Which makes it easier for abusers to get back at the other parent and use their child as some kind of leverage. I mean the character in the book could have fought for full custody by I am assuming that would be an entire different novel and the U.S. family court system.
@@lisah8438 I'm sorry, maybe my tone didn't come across the way I intended it but I absolutely didn't think you hated my review or were trying to be mean! My question "wouldn't that count as proof?" was legitimately curious regarding the system and I was not trying to undermine what you said in any way. For example, it is normal for judges here (Italy) to have hearings with the children and actively ask what they think and whether they want to see the parent. The judge may end up allowing visitation anyway, but generally, there's no way it would be considered in presence of abuse (though, of course, it's different if there's no proof). The events you mention from your own personal experience are horrifying, I'm so sorry you had to deal with that; don't let anyone tell you who you should and shouldn't forgive, that's only for you to decide and your feelings on the matter are always valid. I'm very sorry you had to go through such traumatic events, I hope you're doing better now! ❤
I read less than 100 pages into this book on audio and I could already feel that Ryle was not the kind of man I like to read about. They way he started touching Lily without consent when they first met and definitely the whole thing where he was trying to destroy the chair. Major red flags. I DNFed about 20% of the way in because I felt the ick. My friend just read Verity though and loved it 😊
I am really curious about Verity! I agree, the chair incident especially was a major red flag regarding his anger (I also should have DNFed). And all the issues with consent. Ick ick ick!!!!!
The description of Ryle shows how a classic narcissist traps ppl with love bombing, rush to sex, sex tinged with simmering violence, immediate inappropriate sharing of deeply personal things (“naked truth”). The foundation of an abusive intimate relationship was laid, and that was probably the most realistic and beneficial part of this book. The physical violence only comes after the fly (Lily) gets trapped in all that honey Ryle poured on her.
I absolutely loved the book but I appreciate you making this video. I had the same thoughts but I guess I've just gotten used to overlooking these kinds of issues because that's what always happens. People always forget about the child. It also bothered me that Lily only considered her mother to be the victim in her childhood. But if a father is abusive to a child's mother when the child is present, he is being abusive to that child as well, even if he doesn't lay a hand on her. (Which he DID do once, and Lily's mother chose not to protect her even after that. I understand the situation was difficult for her mother, but there was zero acknowledgment in the book that Lily was a victim too.)
On a side bar it is only in the resent age that we had a large group of long living mothers, death during childbirth and from other factors was extremely common, so there was more father centered family life because he was likely to be the survivor if not the extended family this changed very recently so the roles and expectations are changing. A lot of the "power" and authority that seems to make no sense came out of that fact and a different reality.
She gets a place close to work after divorce. I agree about leaving the baby with him. His sister and brother in law should have been present at all visits
Agreed! His sister in particular good have been a good "mediator" between them since she's his sister but also her friend...I did find it strange that she basically pretended nothing was going on when he was clearly being abusive though.
When I saw the title of your video, I was like: “oh man.. what can someone possibly complain about this piece of gem?” - but I ate all my words because you are so right! The book involves you in a way that doesn’t let you see the bigger picture, but the moment you take a step back and really analysis the situation.. yeah, you couldn’t be more correct! Thanks for making this video, for explaining the issues with it so eloquently and bringing awareness to everyone.
Thank you for keeping an open and critical mind! Have you read any other Colleen Hoover books? I still want to give her another chance! EDIT: spelling :)
@@Skumaskot I have not, but the amount of times I got recommended “Verity” is wearing on me and I’ll probably read that one next, once I’m finished with my current book!
It makes my head hurt that so many readers get butthurt and think that the relationship between characters should be peachy-hunky-dory and that to make it even slightly 'problematic' means that there's something wrong with it. Is the male a controlling sociopath? So be it; it's that way for a reason. It does NOT mean that the author is 'romanticising' it, any more than Thomas Harris is romanticising cannibalism with the Hannibal books. Sorry, rant over. I'm not saying that this applies to you, but to SO many who review her books.
I agree, the relationship doesn't have to be peachy-hunky-dory (so many real ones aren't anyway). I didn't take issue with the way the relationship was portrayed but rather with the lack of consequences and the fact that everybody got a happy ending, which, considering how Ryle is a controlling sociopath - as you said - just didn't sit right with me, and it kind of blurred the lines with the romance genre (where everything always ends well)...so I guess I thought that could have been handled differently (but of course, this is only my opinion). Did you enjoy the book? Love your user name btw!
@@Skumaskot Good points all around. I didn't particularly like or dislike the book, it had strengths and weaknesses that made me conclude a three stars out of five rating. And I apologise if you thought that I was being critical towards you, I didn't mean it that way. Thanks for the username comment, it's a play on the old tabloid headline 'Freddie Star ate my hamster', and when I was choosing a username Taylor was on the radio so I combined the two 😁 Take care x
@@M.H.I.A.F.T. no I absolutely didn’t think you were being critical of mean towards me, it’s always fun to discuss books! I also think the book had some strengths, I quite like her writing style. Did you read any other of her books?
I don't understand why nobody talks about mental health issues. Ryle shot his brother and obviously didn't recover from his trauma. Yes it does not give him the right to hit anyone but a person who loses consciousness when he is angry in my opinion should be followed by a shrink. Lily is traumatized by her father's actions. It seems like, her whole adult life she tries not to be like her mother. For me she is traumatized and she should have help especially when she is going through the same thing. As for the ending, I understand that she wanted her child's father to be a part of her child's life, but they both should have had help long before the child was born. they had months to find the beginning of a solution but they preferred to avoid the situation It's sad the ending ruined the rest of the book for me. And for the story with Atlas for me it should have stayed in the past. Sometimes the best thing to do is to recognize the past, forgive without forgetting but to move on. And Atlas will always represent the past
As far as I remember - but it's been a while - Ryle was in therapy after he shot his brother. It's unclear whether the therapy continued, but seeing his anger issues it clearly didn't address everything! I agree, they had months to find a solution and they just kind of...went with the flow (which is not the best idea in that kind of situation). I also really didn't like the fact that it's heavily implied she gets back with Atlas at the end (who is now rich and successful and everyone is happy!). The ending also ruined it for me, it could have gone in so many directions. Also, they both should have gone into therapy as adults.
I've read a few Colleen Hoover books and I think It Ends with Us is her best, so I don't really have other recs. They're all well-written but they all have a similar sort of over-simplification of trauma and healing. I haven't read the majority of her books so that might not be true across the board. And it's not as if that is something only Hoover does. This is super common in romance especially but in all fiction too. It is hard to really portray healing. People say they want to see it, but they don't. It's ugly and frustrating (trust me; I've written the book with in depth healing and the book that skips over healing; people like the latter way better). So authors are sorta screwed either way. I think Jenette McCurdy's recent memoir I'm Glad My Mom Died did a great job showing the difficult process of healing without being too hard to read, but it's certainly not easy to read.
I’m Glad My Mom Died is SO GOOD! It did such an incredible job of portraying abuse and messed up healing and, even though Jennette clearly also loved her mother the abuse was never romanticized. I found her perspective so fresh but also difficult to read and uncomfortable. An incredible book and I’m glad you enjoyed it too :)
@@Skumaskot Yes, it was great! I think My Dark Vanessa dealt with the aftermath of abuse in a real, nuanced way too, though it's different subject matter. Those were two of my recent favorites. But neither is genre fiction and that shows. For some reason, Colleen Hoover's books are held up as "above romance" but they're not. They are romance and they are similarly limited by the frameworks of the genre. Not because the genre is in any way bad or lesser (I also write romance) but because it has a certain framework with rules and expectations. (Especially by the inevitable happy ending expected of the genre. Because no matter how much we say a book does not romanticize or simplify something, the happy ending will). But such is the difficulty of truth within commercial fiction. It's always a battle between what will sell and what feels real (assuming the author actually wants to show what feels real; plenty don't).
@@Skumaskot Unbearable Lightness is another good memoir about an actress with an ED, but IIRC the book is mostly focused on the ED itself, not so much on the healing process. I loved the book More Than You Can Chew (fiction but inspired by the author's life) as a teen (it's about a woman in inpatient treatment and very much about treatment without being a total bummer) but I haven't read it as an adult to see how it holds up.
@@crystalkaswell3438 you won’t believe this but I’m actually half way through My Dark Vanessa right now! I’m really “enjoying” it (as much as you can “enjoy” a book with this subject matter, but what I’m trying to say is that I deeply appreciate it and think the writing is fantastic). I agree with everything you said about Colleen Hoover’s books, and I think one of the aspects that bothered me most is how everything was resolved in the end and everyone got a happy ending with literally no consequences. I guess her books just aren’t for me, though I can see why they may resonate with many readers. I’ll definitely be checking out your other recommendations though since apparently we have the same taste in books, thank you for those! 😊
@@Skumaskot For sure! Let me know if you find anything similar. I'd love another great book about abuse and power. Or really anything that really dives into the nitty gritty, nuanced complicated stuff AND comes out the other side (if that makes sense). (I hate to compare anything to The Handmaid's Tale, because it's such an iconic book, but that is the book I thought of most reading My Dark Vanessa. It's just so smart about power and gender. The structure of My Dark Vanessa is very interesting as well, but I won't say anything to spoil that).
She thinks of me as his Ryle, but we are in Long distance relationship since last 11 years. I don't even know what should i do, and one small detail I should share is she does have a very bad temper. Now i seriously don't know how am I Ryle.
Unfortunately I don't think I can help you, as I'm not licensed to give any sort of qualified relationship advice. Thank you for watching, I hope my review brought you some comfort. ❤
This movie was awesome! It was one of the best movies I have seen this year and I am a guy. My Dad also loved the movie. I know it will not get oscars attention but both the movie and Blake Lively should get some awards credit. It will end up being better than some of the Oscar movies later on.
When you walk a mile in someone's shoes you will understand. Most of us read this book from the pov of someone who has never been abused so even our solutions are from that pov.
That’s true but as I lawyer my perspective - while certainly not the same as the victim’s - isn’t entirely neutral either. People come to us for help and are truly desperate, which is why I can’t stand it when abuse is romanticized. Sometimes we have to listen to recordings for court, which is horrifying. Thankfully I have not had many cases like this but I can tell you - as a personal choice - that I would turn down the defense of an alleged abuser.
I've been trying to figure out why people think this is problematic. (I view it as being about breaking the cycle of abuse.) So greatly appreciate your insight ... and it's brave given how her fandom can be haha. Thank you. (I've actually seen a loooot of people complain about her and this book, you're far from alone.) I do believe this will resonate with many people. Recs? I also really liked 'Reminders of Him' for some perspective. And also Without Merit ... starts out kinda slow, but ultimately, lended some perspective as well. Heart Bones was fun as well. Fave is prob ... Hopeless because it's eerily close to my own life. Aha ... just heard the 'oversimplified' part. Yea, I can see that. She does get more into it with 'It Stars With Us', but I'm not sure it'd be your jam. It's also a bit unrealistic for many people in that Lily ends up having this AMAZING support system ... and that's composed of Rile's family & best friend. Most DV victims, I feel, do not have this. And yea. You totally make great points. No disagreement on those at all. Thank you again for sharing.
Thank you so much for listening to my perspective with an open mind! I'm not sure Colleen Hoover is my jam in general, but I do appreciate that she tried to address some concerns in 'It Starts With Us'. I agree, the amazing support system is unrealistic, especially considering the fact that it's mostly made up of Ryle's family. I think I'm going to be taking a break from Colleen Hoover in general, but I'm always looking for more great books to read so please feel free to recommend anything else (i.e., books not written by Colleen Hoover). Thank you for your recommendations in any case!
@@Skumaskot Yea, I get that you're all set on Hoover, haha. I should've actually already gotten that. I guess I had her on the brain. Let's see ... So this was ... okay, so LOTS of feels, but ultimately, so sweet. 'As the Stars Fall'. By Steve N Lee And ... if you like creepy / weird stuff ... I just read a couple of Stephanie Ayers titles that were fun. All hers are short reads. "The Thing from the Stars" < That one's weird, but I thought it was fun. "Blood White". Kinda creepy / urban legend thing. hm... If you like romance (sans abuse haha) Sandra Daniels is good stuff. Saving Jared, Callahan's Haven, any of hers, really. Oh Like Matches for Wishes if you like fairy tale retellings. By Lee Ann Ward. Wow, it was so well done. 'Little Match Girl' was the most depressing fairytale EVERrrrrr maybe? Idk but it's sad. Lee Ann put out a happy retelling-sort-of thing. ( It's actually live Nov. 22, but I already read it, ages ago when it was in a limited-time set.)
You are not alone. I think the book is for young girls, so...... I read it because I'm an English learner. I chose books that tend to be easy. That's a good side of it.
I was new to reading and didn’t realize that looking up trigger warnings before reading this book. As a survivor of DV, this book triggered me so incredibly bad and fk’d my head up for a long time. I will never read triggering books again, because I just can’t handle it. I had no idea it involved DV when starting the book. Finished it in one sitting.
I originally heard great reviews and wanted to read this book for the compelling storyline. I liked it, however there were some things I didn’t like. Mostly that was Ryle. Ryle and Lily. Their relationship. Ryle showed red flags from the beginning, which were all ignored. And later on, he was forgiven so, so easily. By his family, by Lily. I understand he has had traumatic experiences in life which have caused “rage blackouts” but his behavior is extremely concerning. It seemed like he had a bigger secret than his blackouts, like he had seriously hurt someone in the past, or exhibited obsessive, abusive behavior before. I thought they were going to go that route, but no. He wasn’t a repeat offender, Lily was the only one? His first serious girlfriend at age 30, the first girl he’s been in love with AND he abused her. I find it to be unlikely. I understand perhaps forgiving Ryle after the first fight, it really seemed like an accident. The second fight - he behaved badly, but at least he was honest about why and they made efforts to change it. But after the third fight??? He punched her, scratched her, BIT her. Tried to rape her?? That was horrifying, that was just horrifying. There’s no coming back from that and I think Lily could see that, and that’s why she left. That moment showed what Ryle was really capable of, and I’m so shocked at how easily he was forgiven. His family hardly blinked, he faced no consequences in other aspects of life. And for Lily’s case, she held absolutely no concerns about allowing her child near him. They could’ve done something he may only visit his child with a social worker present. Who’s to say one day he won’t snap and have another blackout and possibly hurt his daughter? Except she’s a tiny little baby, and the situation could be fatal, and it would be all Lily’s fault because she just allowed it. Also, they never touched upon abortion, or giving the baby away. I understand it is a very political topic, but think of all the arguments against abortions. Not every girl who wants an abortion is “irresponsible”, some are in sticky situations like abuse or rape, or they have no assets or support. The possibility could’ve been very interesting and made a big difference, it’s a very valid option, but it was never even touched upon.
It was a messed up relationship and they both had faults (hence they both needed therapy). Also why Lily kept the diaries is beyond me. But that doesn’t justify abuse, as you said, and to be fair any excuse would have been enough for Ryle, he would have snapped anyway. The first time he hits her it’s because he’s cut his hand and she is laughing…abusers latch on to any excuse for violence.
She lied because she was scared. She knew that he was going to hurt or abuse her again. Her keeping the letters wasn’t a big thing. That was important to her and Atlas was a big impact in her life. There were multiple times when she had fear because of the violence he had and did to her. Her being honest about the magnet wouldn’t have changed his behavior. I think she should’ve kept the journals because they were important to her.
as a 15yo the worst thing somebody can do is recommend this shit to questionable teenagers cuz why do I see yall praising this book like its Jesus on tiktok 😭
@@Skumaskot Thanks :D & same I only saw a snippet on tiktok and just nope'd the heck out of reading it I have no idea how people enjoy it ends with us I rather be doing linear equations 😃
Don't understand how this is problematic. She left the abuser for the better guy and did not let the abuser continue the cycle with her kid. That iis a good message not a problematic one. Agree to disagree.
Again, just my opinion! In the book it explicitly says she leaves the child unsupervised with the guy, who is known to have rage attacks. Not the best choice in my opinion but maybe the movie is better. Agree to disagree!
@@Skumaskot Yeah, that is one choice though. It would have been different had she went back to the guy as even her best friend said she would not talk to her again if she did that and that was her brother! I know it is your opinion! Not criticizing you.
@@tonyg76 its the fact that she gave him partial custody, lets him come over to *her* house, and even in the next book she barely actually talks to her daughter about this, and that book is apparently about how her life was affected despite Lily making those choices for her. Even some of the people around her acted like things were chill, assuming she told anybody anything after the multiple incidents which is the most realistic part of this. This isnt even the only book, almost every guy thinks like him, and on some occasions they're just as violent even if its not directly towards the FMC. Its half narrative hypocrisy, and half just using her parent's relationship as a scapegoat for her other romances, because the book itself is fairly sexualized and badly handles the topic
@@Skumaskot I don't know if you'll like it because you didn't like it starts with us, but it's basically a continuation of the story from where it stopped. It delves into Atals' past and even addressed some of the issues you're talking about, like why Lily didn't get a lawyer and the relationship she's building between Emerson and Ryle. It also talks more on her feelings towards Ryle which I feel may help to explain why she's still letting him in her life. I do think you should read it, just so I can watch a video on what you think 😊
I started reading this book I'm on chapter 35 honestly, I don't like it but at the same time, my curiosity was so up it wasn't easily put to rest . BIG NO
You have marriage or relationship problems? You can divorce a bunch of things before you even think of divorcing your partner: your phone, social media, alcohol, smoking, music, dancing, even your job or your relatives etc. Do those first and see if your relationship and your own personality changes. Often times people can't even name the root cause and deflect blame on other people etc.
For anyone who has read this book and got interested in learning more about domestic abuse or toxic relationships I HIGHLY recommend the following books! *Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft* The author is a counselor who specializes in working with abusive men. It's a must read if you ever had any abusive men in your life! I'd even go so far as to say that every young woman who dates men should read this book before getting into a serious relationship. *Helping Her Get Free: A Guide for Families and Friends of Abused Women by Susan Brewster* This is a must read if you have even the slightest suspicion that a person close to you is an abusive relationship. It's an amazing resource to offer real meaningful support to people in toxic or abusive relationships. Even if you don't have a friend in this situation, this book has helped me become a better friend and a better listener! *The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals That Protect Us from Violence by Gavin de Becke* this one isn't specifically about domestic abuse, but a great book to train you to trust your gut and fear response, to catch dangerous situations early. Thanks for bringing attention to the fact that the story of Lily paints a very simplified and problematic picture of what abuse looks like and how these relationships resolve.
Thank you for the recommendations, I will certainly check them out! ❤️ The ending definitely felt oversimplified and naive. I’m glad you liked my review!
What I do find scary is that I’ve seen so many videos where young women have said it “changed their view of the world while smiling” … like what does that mean other than you approve of the content. I’m just concerned it’s not ok to make these very real and dangerous relationships ok.
That's what worries me too! I feel like this book even romanticizes some aspects of dangerous relationships. I've seen many comments along the lines of "Lily shouldn't have left Ryle but should have helped him get the help he needed". Like what...?
I did love the book however the synopsis on the back kinda ruined it for me because it legit said Ryle was arrogant and his take on relationships is disturbing so just from reading the back I knew he wasn't what he seemed in the beginning of the book. So I didn't cry at all, I thought it was very obvious what was going to happen and I was just annoyed instead of upset. I did really like the book mainly coz of Atlas and Alyssa tho. Edit: also her naming their kid after his brother annoyed me so much
I hate it when synopses ruin books!!! Like publishers PLEASE make an effort to not spoil the book in literally THREE SENTENCES which you can fit in the back! 😂 I’m glad you enjoyed the book…the name of the kid is terrible though!
i read this book in less than 48h and i really enjoyed the quick writing style but for me it was really foreseeable..after she met ryle and we found out about her father you could guess the whole plot. this man was a red flag from the beginning. i also saw many people say they feel bad for him what i really don’t understand. yes he had a reallyyyyy traumatic experience but now he’s a grown man and i think he should take some responsibility and work on his behavior & you can’t tell me that he didn’t know before he had some issues. ALSO WHY TF DID THEY NAME THEIR CHILD AFTER AN ABUSIVE MAN???? he manipulated her from the start and i just felt really bad for lily and i was actually glad that the book had a fairytale ending
Even before Ryle hits Lily there are issues with the relationship. He was obsessed with her after meeting her. Showing up announced, not letting her eat alone with her mom, the picture of her in the apartment, etc. Even if he wasn’t hitting her he would be controlling her every move and not wanting to be away from her. I don’t like how a lot of the violence against Lily involves Atlas. Like if it wasn’t for Atlas there wouldn’t be issues. Yes, Lily got lucky with Kyle, sometimes obsessed people don’t let it go.
Totally agree! I know a lot of readers adored Ryle from the beginning…I found him creepy right from the very start. The red flags were definitely all there! 🚩
One hole in the story, is Lily really the only person Ryle has ever been obsessed with? Doesn’t make any sense. Maybe because she turned him down initially and he’s not used to it and like the challenge.
@@Minnie6777 Abusive people stay abusive in different relationships, and I agree that this point wasn’t explored…Ryle is presented as workaholic and someone who never had time for a relationship but he’s around 30 so I find that kind of hard to believe! I guess he’s also not used to being rejected since he’s apparently super hot AND a doctor (not that this justifies anything in my opinion).
Oh, he doesn't let go ... I'm guessing you haven't read 'It Stars W/ Us' ?
@@pelicanproofing_pa3641 not yet. Is it worth reading?
I've been watching a lot of reviews and people seemed to love Ryle and were shocked when he became abusive. I wasn't shocked at all. He took a picture of her and hung it in her home without her consent. He objectified her from the beginning. I saw so many red flags, I wasn't surprised at all when he became abusive. And also, why was his family just okay with him being an abusive asshole? And named a child after him?? His abuse is excused because he doesn't hit his children? I enjoyed the book but those parts were bizarre. If he wasn't a successful, handsome, rich doctor, he'd be in jail.
Definitely bizarre! Also, between him and his sister there was so much rich white privilege going on…
Oh my god her naming their child after his brother annoyed me sooooo much
But his family didnt know that he was abusive before they had the baby (rylee) ? Correct me if im wrong. Thats why he was always concerned if lily told his sister about their fights. At the end allysa took lily’s side because she knew it was wrong but still loves him as her brother.
@rayselmayann the family wasn't explicitly told but they definitely had blinders on towards them. She came to dinner with a cut on her face and he did with cuts on his hand. They gave the most she hit a door excuse
I think Colleen did a good job of sharing the perspective of someone being abused, but the solution at the end of the book is problematic. We are getting a description of Ryle from Lily’s point of view. At the beginning, he shows significant red flags, like violently kicking the chair, begging Lily to have sex with him until she finally says yes, etc. While these actions are extremely noticeable, it can be easy to overlook it, like Lily did because we also see this wonderful side of Ryle in the beginning. I think it really shows how the red flags are present in an abuser, but it’s easy to overlook it and romanticize it in the beginning of a relationship. I also love the transition of Lily resenting her mom for staying with an abuser to Lily understanding how difficult it is to get out of an abusive situation. It shows how we can’t judge a book by its cover and how complex abuse truly is. I think Lily’s feelings of resentment are completely valid though.
Where I think the book goes wrong: the solution, like you said. Ryle tried to rape her. I’d argue that he coerced her into having sex with him in the beginning (if he didn’t fall asleep). He literally abused her. How on earth is the solution allowing your kid around him? The reasoning is that her father never hurt anyone but the mom, but that’s not true. The father hurt Lily to the point where she had to go to the hospital the one time. He also beat Atlas nearly to death. Ryle was literally acting violent because he couldn’t control his anger when he first met Lily. If you realize he’s abusive and you realize you need to get out, how can you let your kid into that situation. I understand Lily’s complex emotions, but I don’t think that should be the solution at all. I know it comes from Colleen’s personal experience, but also I feel like it adds more trauma to the kid. You have this loving relationship with your father only to find out he tried to rape and did beat up your mom. In a way, I’d argue that’s still continuing the cycle to an extent. It’s showing that there should be a redemption and trust for abusers when there’s no evidence to prove he’s changed or gotten his anger issues in control. Yes, we can understand his trauma, but I don’t think that gives him an excuse or a pass. Also, I understand the perspective of Lily not going to the cops. A lot of women struggle with that, and it’s a good perspective to acknowledge. But, for a book that’s supposed to give the perspective of abuse, I think there needs to be some acknowledgment that going to the authorities is something that must be done because abuse shouldn’t be tolerated. However, I’m also conflicted because our judicial system is fucked up, and many many women do not get justice, so I don’t know.
This is an AMAZING comment and perspective! Thank you so much for sharing! I completely agree that Ryle is romanticized in the beginning as Colleen shows this wonderful side of him, and does a great job in portraying how easy it can be to overlook red flags and fall for a potential abuser…but the second part of your comment really hits the nail of where the book went wrong in my opinion.
This is very well said. I wholeheartedly agree 💞
The other thing is: these red flags are very romanticized in a lot of romance novels. I don't find most of these romantic, but I am sure I have written some of them, just as I've had relationships with red flags IRL (I think we all have). This kinda goes both ways--the readers who don't normally notice the red flags are the ones who most need to see the end of the abuse continuum. I don't really mind the first 90% of It Ends with Us, but I do agree the end is super irresponsible, especially because the book is being advertised as a great example of abuse. I think it has opened up a lot of people's eyes to abuse, people who would otherwise judge abused people for staying, but so many people are going to think abuse can end easily too.
It’s the Stockholm syndrome. Going to authorities is extremely hard because you hate and love the person at the same time. Even at the time I was packing my bags and leaving with my son, I could not get myself to go to the police station down the road. I wanted to get him a record so it would help with divorce and custody but could not make myself do it. I wasn’t hit or beaten but everything else was there and I just know that if I had stayed, there would have been beating too. He was just taking his time because I did call police on my ex who beat me.
It’s just a really hard situation. Plus if any gaslighting was used, you can’t even think clearly. And you find excuses for that person, just like Lily did
My biggest issue with this book was the way an infertile character was written. So frustrating that a pregnancy magically happened just a few pages after the infertility was introduced and the character never really thought about the pregnancy after that. Very, very upsetting to read about this after going through infertility myself.
I was annoyed at how the pregnancy / infertility issue was resolved, but didn’t stop to reflect on it…however thank you for bringing this up. You’re right, it was treated horribly and really superficially! When I read about the pregnancy I remember actively rolling my eyes because of course the super rich white girl gets what she wants anyway (like come on, seriously??)
Why introduce a serious issue if you’re just going to downplay it and magically resolve it a few pages later? As if it could just magically disappear anyway.
It’s one of the various problematic issues that was wrapped up in a pretty little box, is easily resolved and everyone is happy in the end…so yes, I get that fiction is not necessarily realistic, but books don’t exist in a vacuum and I wish sensitive subjects were always treated with the care and respect they deserve.
I’m sorry you had to go through such a traumatic experience, I hope you’re doing better now. ❤️
To be fair… (Though I understand where you’re coming from and I also had the same immediate thought)… she never said she was struggling with infertility she said “I can’t get pregnant”. They’re millionaires… If there was an infertility struggle he would’ve heard more about that and all they try. I think this was more of she wasn’t getting pregnant right away and she got the job to get her mind off of it,,. And they distraction from the stress of “trying” worked, like it does for some.
Excuse my errors. You get the point lol
I don't get why they added that in. If you took out her saying I'm infertile it wouldn't change the book at all. Same with Lucy, if you took Lucy out it wouldn't change the book so why was she in it for her to hate
i find it problematic mainly because though colleen hoover does a good job in writing the perspective of an abused individual, she definitely caters to and prioritizes the romance. lily’s abuse felt like it was just a plot-line to get her with atlas in the end. that’s how it felt. just because someone is brave enough to write about domestic abuse doesn’t mean they’re portraying it correctly. as you said, the view of domestic abuse in this book is just flat out problematic. i do feel really bad for colleen for going through a similar situation, but i do think this book is problematic. the audience praises it highly for its realism and i think that’s another reason as to why i disliked the book.
Exactly, it feels like a way to get rid of Ryle so that she can be with Atlas, and everyone is happy in the end. Praising it as realistic is dangerous on a whole other level…
I don't get how she portrayed it "incorrectly" when she was literally modeling the story after her parent's domestic abuse. Reality is "problematic?"
@@CHK12319 i just explained how…. by prioritizing the romance and using her abuse as a tool to enhance the romance aspect
@@saylorren9176 That's literally what people in those situations experience
@@CHK12319thought the exact same everyone that says it’s problematic or had issues don’t want to see abuse and narcissistic behavior for what it is in real life this is the reason woman don’t leave this book is so real to a victim of DV i can relate with this 💯 she says she hasnt been in a DV relationship so obviously u have no idea what your talking about even as a lawyer u still have no idea. She should go read “safe” book
people were surprised about ryle? after he spent weeks saying the only thing he wanted to do was have sex with lily? to the point where he was basically harassing her about sex? that ryle?
Lol THAT RYLE 😂
The one that showed up at a random building and knocked at every door
The end was for sure terrible. Definitely not a safe situation for a child.
The part that was the worst for me (and Ryle did a lot of terrible things) was when she needed medical care and chose a different hospital than his work because protecting his job was so important. I've seen abuse in real life, and that part just seemed waaay too "true life" where survivors don't report things or are intimidated/coerced into keeping quiet or how some aspect of the abusers life (work/power/etc.) is considered more important than the survivor's life. Also kinda reminded me of some US news stories about assaults at US college campuses with commentary about how "hurtful or disruptive" it is for the men to be named as rapists after the fact.
The part about her going to another hospital was horrifying! I understand the author’s intention in depicting this kind of situation and the inner conflicts it creates, but I personally found that the background exploration of Ryle’s character ended up romanticizing him and his actions (“He’s a good person who sometimes does bad things” -> we must all protect Ryle and help him because it’s not his fault) and to me that’s not ok because books don’t exist in a vacuum and can have a huge impact on people’s lives.
Gosh guys! Life doesn't have villains. That was the point! To show how things may happen behind the scenes. And we live our lives never knowing. To break the preconceptions we have about abusers being narcissists that will kill you one day and show that their people too. Which is why victims struggle to leave and report
@@lisaerayonline8649 I truly hope this was sarcasm. Jfc.
I had an abusive husband. I had to run away before it got worse. Mind you I was pregnant when I ran away. I protected my daughter from him abs almost got punished for it.
The judge saw how the dad left bruises on me 4 different times abs still denied supervised visits. She is only 2 and she doesn’t like being with him. In CA and I hate the legal system. I was granted a restraining order but my daughter is forced to go to her dads unsupervised and to this day. She doesn’t like it. Judges destroy lives of kids with no care in the world
🥲 Iam so sorry, that happened to you. It's outrages...
I’m so sorry that happened to you 😢 sometimes the justice system is a complete failure and there’s really no excuse.
I think this book is problematic too. I would like to add another problematic thing that no one talks about. I am talking about the moment when Ryle almost raped Lilly. In the version I read the book is on page 84. Here Ryle asks Lilly to have sex with him and she doesn't want to, but he keeps asking. In the end she accepts, but first she goes to the bathroom where she had a panic attack... I think this is sexual assault, and I am disappointed that no one talks about this.
Is it when he’s basically begging her to just get it out of his system? Literally begging her for weeks!!!! Ugh! 🤢
I just want to say, that doesn't make the book problematic, as it provides a platform for a story of domestic sexual abuse to be explored. It opens conversations, and that is what makes a good piece of literature. If a certain scene makes you sick, then thats a little irrelevant, no offence. That part of the story wasn't unnecessary...that is how you educate people.
@@riyamalik3756 But you do know that there are still people defending Ryle and overlooking his actions, right? Despite knowing about these discussions? I wonder why that is so.
Very true. Sexual harassment isn’t only a physical act, it is anything related to being sexual. Ryle constantly insinuated sex when they were together, from the first time they had met. She repeatedly turned him down, firmly telling him she wasn’t interested - on multiple occasions, but to no avail. He continued to harass her and make sexual comments, at her workplace, and he even trespassed in her home, pressuring her. She repeatedly said she didn’t want to. When I was reading that scene when he came to her house, I remember feeling creeped. I remember thinking, if I were Lily would I feel the same as she did in this scenario? And I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t feel flattered, I wouldn’t feel sympathetic, I would feel scared. I would want Ryle to leave and I wouldn’t want to see him again.
Fellow lawyer here, I didn't liked the book either, for me it really romantizcized domestic abuse even though the author and readers who loved it say it doesn't. Even if it didn't through out 99% of the story, just the end alone does it. I find interesting how from the very first time we meet Ryle we already know he is violent, the first thing she learned about him was that he was violent, needless to say big red flag, that it's ignored because she finds him attractive.
The fact that Ryle gets off free just because she does the comparison like ''My dad never hurt me, so Ryle would never hurt our kid either'' it's very naive for me, besides even in the best scenario where he doesn't hurt their child, he will most likely hurt his next partner.
Agreed, domestic violence repeats...Ryle suffering no consequences for his abuse (jail, trial, restraining order, ANYTHING) is essentially giving him free rein to be abusive to his next partner (and we don't really know whether he is prone to snapping with the child...as you mentioned a very naive perspective). To be honest though, I don't think anyone from our line of work could like this book and especially the ending...we're too trained to recognize the red flags and we deal with too many difficult situations on a daily basis to put up with the excuse that "there's no such thing as bad people, we're all just people who sometimes do bad things".
There are a lot of people that are abusive to their partners but completely adore their children. That was the point! To show that people do bad things but it doesn't make them monsters. I think it was genius of her to bring complexity to her characters instead of the black and white hero villain trope.
For me the Ryle character was the worst written. He is introduced as a Chad who is goal oriented n suddenly within just a few scenes he turns into an onlyfans level simp, begging her to have sex with him despite being a one night stand guy, who again is described as handsome enough to be with anyone yet still chooses the girl. (Self insert alert) He is described later to have moments where he spaces out during rage n stress etc. Yet this guy is a neurosurgeon. A job that is beyond stressful n requires a person to have a strong mind. The inconsistencies within the character annoyed the shit out of me. U can't just say he was in an 18 hour surgery only to have him snap and rape his wife over diaries that were clearly written years ago. Also what 16 year old is writing diaries to Ellen? To make matters worse his own sister hides secrets from him when atlas came to meet HER BROTHER'S wife. She barely knows this guy yet just gives him a pass, cause suprise, he's good looking too. Everyone in this Book is not only good looking but financially successful. It's almost like a cycle of events. Lily causes misunderstandings that'll make any guy get the wrong idea (in a bathroom with a stranger, keeping old diaries of ex where she specifically mentions that she will always love him, lying about her ex as if she actually has things to hide) and it happens 3 times at least. who won't be suspicious? What husband wont have questions? And then just in case his reasoning makes too much sense the writer will turn him into the hulk and reek havic just so it's clear that despite Lily's stupidity, at least we can all agree Ryle is worse. He turns from a stable smart caring person to a psychopath in unbelievable and unrealistic ways. Lily wasn't very realistic either. She opens a flower shop and is successful from the start. She gets a rich person to work for her and that person's brother just so happens to Ryle. She was so dumb that even when she stayed at atlas house she actually believed he had a gf even though there wasn't a single picture of her in the whole house where she lived for days, another twist that isnt one. Also atlas was just a straight up asshole. Who just forces his way into a women's room? What if she actually had to Pee? You don't just gonna force her to hold it while you ask her questions that you assumed a minute ago? From instalove to instamarriage to instadivorce. This book had all three. For me it became an instacrap.
This comment made my day, thank you!!! 😂😂😂 I also found Ryle to be very inconsistent in the way he is depicted, it doesn't make sense that he's a neurosurgeon - and therefore must have gone through tremendously stressful training - yet he just loses it at random times. What if something like that happens in the operating room? And WHY is everyone so rich and successful with basically no effort? I'm assuming that if Ryle hadn't been rich and successful and handsome and a neurosurgeon he wouldn't have gotten a free pass as he did but would be in jail. "From instalove to instamarriage to instadivorce" is the right way to put it. 😅
@@SkumaskotI like channels that don't just follow the masses so your channel just got an instasubscription. 😁
@@factoryofdivisiveopinions instathankyou!! 😍
@@Skumaskot I think the whole "he's a neurosurgeon, but only blacks out when he's around his wife and not in surgery!" Is actually completely consistent with how real life abusers will try and find excuses for their behavior. The fact that the book doesn't explore this more is where I realized that the book is lacking a layer of reflection. It's clear that while the author has experience with abuse, she probably never truly processed or researched how it works.
People don't "black out" in abusive periods, it's not a real thing. It's a common excuse though that abusers will use to try and separate themselves from their decision to use violence.
It's funny, the whole "His character is inconsistent and confusing" feels very realistic, since abusers will use the confusion to keep their victims trapped! Where the book lost me is when in the end they just seemed to agree that he happens to have this weird trauma response from his childhood and that he's otherwise a good guy and that he'd agree to get the divorce for the sake of his daughter, because Lily explained his abuse problem to him the right way!
Any ending where he didn't end up in specialized therapy or a program for abusers shouldn't be a happy ending. I'm scared for battered women, who might read this book and think they can tell their partner they want to separate, while they're holding their infant child. Most women are murdered by their abusive husbands when they try to leave.
There are some topics, where it doesn't really matter too much when you get it wrong and give an unrealistic portrayal of how something would happen. A book about abuse is not one of them. It's not problematic, because abuse takes place in the book, but because it never questions the lies abusers will tell us to avoid responsibility.
@@SchatzInaoriginal What you say is so true. It bothers me a lot that in this book Hoover puts the responsibility of ending the cycle of violence on Lily, as if it were so simple: I don't want you to hit me anymore, so I'm leaving. When in real life most abused women don't leave their partners because they are terrified of what the abusers might do to them.
I was waiting for someone to talk about this! I also was very upset by Ugly Love... I'm working on a project looking at contemporary romance novels and I so appreciated this.
Thank you! Sounds like an interesting project…are you focusing on certain books and authors in particular? I’m still on the fence about reading more Colleen Hoover books, but since you mentioned it I’m probably going to stay away from Ugly Love 😅.
As some with an abusive father it was really triggering seeing Lily allowing Ryle to be alone with their child after what he had done. Me being a toddler didn’t stop my dad and it sure as hell doesn’t stop most abusive men.
Most men who are abusive towards their wife are also abusive towards their kids.
+ lily’s dad did throw lily onto hard ice so hard that she needed to go to the hospital so saying that her father wasn’t abusive towards her is wrong.
Lily is a bad mom for taking such a risk, a good mom would completely cut off the dad or only allow him to meet the child while she was also there
Completely agree...I'd totally forgotten about the hard ice incident and the fact that Lily was asked to lie about it at the hospital! Also, a toddler can't speak up following abuse. I'm sorry you had to go through that with your father, I hope you're doing better now ❤
Thanks for talking about this! I had a really interesting conversation with a colleague who had loved it. I said, he's supposed to be a classic romantic hero but from the get-go he's just walking around waving a giant red flag above his head, it makes me lose sympathy for Lily because I would just run a mile in the opposite direction. And a couple of days later the colleague said she'd thought about what I said and she realised most of the men she'd dated in the past, with hindsight were probably waving those flags and she didn't see them until it was too late. I think some people associate those behaviours not with red flags but idealised masculine behaviour like protectiveness, irresistible sexual attraction and authority in going after what they want. I think it's a book that works really well for those readers, but not so much for me! Same goes for Twilight...
The perspective with your colleague is actually really interesting! I think that certain red flags are culturally perceived as positive masculine traits, and it certainly doesn’t help when books romanticize and establish these traits further as positive traits. Take aggressively pursuing a girl as Ryle does in the book. It’s creepy full-stop in my opinion, but I think many women would be ok with it if they’re interested in the guy, and on the other hand would be totally freaked out if they’re not interested…but it’s still the same behavior!!
@@Skumaskot Exactly! I was just screaming 'No!' at the book every time Ryle walked through the door, but I think my brain just works differently to some people, like this colleague, when it comes to relationship dynamics. I was also deeply disturbed by the party scene when Lily tells the people on the roof she doesn't want to be alone with Ryle, and they ignore her. When she tells her friend she doesn't want to stay with Ryle and he also ignores her. He then carries her through the party to his bedroom with her protesting and not one person stops him. I'm older, and maybe in my mid twenties I would have behaved differently, but there's no way in hell I would stand back at a party and let that happen now, and I like to think I would have stepped in at their age too.
I just finish this book and I HATE it:
so in the eyes of lily, Ryle is to dangerous for her but she let’s her daughter around him??? at the hospital she literally gave him a list of why her daughter shouldn’t be around him!(random but if the daughter one day gets a bf that Ryle doesn’t like is he going to beat him up like her dad did to Atlas? If i was her i would be asking myself this question)Also I personally thought Ryle sister/lily bff was WAY too forgiving of her brother. If I learn that my brother was abusif to his gf to the point of sending her to the fucking hospital AND tried to R her i would literally be disgusted with him/never talk to him again. Lily said that Ryle only hurt her just like her dad witch is false for both! Ex: Her dad send her AND Atlas to the hospital
Also I would like to add he didn’t rape her when they had their last big fight but begging for sex until she says yes when he knew she didn’t want to truly do it for me is sexual assault
Also maybe I miss that part if so I’m sorry but: having a abortion was never really considered, not that she HAD to do it but having a baby with your abuser ties you to them forever no matter what so I was surprised it wasn’t even a question specially since she said herself she wasn’t really ready for it she only said yes because Ryle ask to try
You talked about how you dont know when the abuser is going to act violent and it made me think about: what’s gonna happen when Ryle learns that Lily is dating Atlas… he’s definitely not going to take it well to learn that the men he HATES is co raising his daughter…
In the end the whole abuse situation was treated like a messy divorce and not like someone who was abused by a controlling monster
Edit: sorry for any spelling mistakes English isn’t my first language
You make a good point about how Ryle would react after learning about Atlas and Lily dating…I hadn’t thought that far ahead but surely that cannot go over well! I also thought her dad didn’t just hit her mom, but ended up hurting Atlas as well because he just snapped…so who’s to say that Ryle won’t snap the same way?
I don’t know, I was expecting so much from this book but many things just didn’t sit right. Thank you for adding your perspective!
Kinda weird how she relates ryle to her fathers abuse, yet allows ryle to be around the daughter 🤦🏾♂️
@@shoaibjalilyes definitely! Also, her father almost beat Atlas to death and suffered no consequences so it isn’t true that he was abusive and violent ONLY towards Lily’s mother…
@@shoaibjalilyes exactly!!
@@Skumaskot I’d say Atlas half deserved that.
I totally agree!
Moreover, CoHo constantly goes down the easiest route. Lily is the perfect victim, for example, in that she never physically fights back/uses self defense. I'm in law school and interested in family law/custody/etc. and it's really shocking how easiy abusers can turn the whole thing around when they have evidence that the victim also got physical, even if its just in self defense.
Ryle turns out to be a good coparent for the daughter. Ryle doesn't get violent when Lily tells him that she'll leave him for good. In that sense, he's very atypical for an abuser. He also isn't really emotionally abusive in the sense that he doesn't try to isolate Lily from friends and family. He's okay with her being financially independent etc. Very unbelievable in my opinion..
It's especially harmful in my opinion, that CoHo paints mothers who don't want joint custody with their abusive exes as women who put their own well being over their children's relationship with their father. She fails to understand that a lot of abusers aren't perfect parents. Even if they don't attack their children physically they might use them to get revenge on the mothers. Like threatening the mothers whenever they come pick up the kids and so on...
It's spot on that CoHo just conveniently ties everything up in a nice bow.
Totally agree with your thoughts! I think CoHo just wants a non-messy ending, and it’s convenient for everyone if Ryle is just the perfect dad who “happened” to be violent with her (and I’ve seen reviews where people empathize with Ryle because he’s so nice, the violence must be a fluke). It’s not realistic and paints a “wannabe” picture of what coparenting with an abusive parent should aspire to look like (in the land of unicorns…)
Thank you so much for writing this comment! It helped me a lot. This subject souldn't be romanticed at all. I am worried teenagers would draw the wrong conclusion. This book is not more than a pulp fiction...
I'm glad educated peolpe give opinions, and they don't care the hype at all.
I loved this: "Lily is the perfect victim...yeah there's no such thing.
I never had bruises, only aches, he was so cautios, he told me once, that he is trying to teach me!!!! with the abuse, and said to me that I should me grateful he counciosly never used all of his physical power on me, because otherwise I would be dead already...and then he laughed at me...
Just finished this audio book after listening to it for a little over a month. I found it basically on accident, since I've never heard of it before and UA-cam auto play started it. I'm glad I stuck it out. Ryle's and Lily's relationship felt so real to me, which makes sense since it was based off of the author's parents. But, there were a few times (even before the abuse happened) where I was a bit iffy of Ryle. Like I was just waiting on something bad to happened because of the way things went. He sometimes shows up unannounced, tracked where she lived, took lots of pictures of her, brought her gifts for no real reason other than to say 'he loved her' and this all happened in the first few months of their relationship. Those things are fine I guess but something about it seemed more like a love bomb (especially since Lily didn't do those things for him). That he KNEW he was going to do something bad eventually and was doing all this good stuff before hand in the hopes that she'll forgive him afterwards. I felt this way also because of Allison, since in the beginning of their relationship she told Lily to 'Be careful'. This tells me that Ryle sometimes lays hands on people for minor things and he has a history of abuse/ losing his temper (This is shown in the beginning as well when he throws a chair upon first meeting Lily)
When they suddenly got married, I felt like yelling at the screen. Because it literally did not make any sense. During the plane ride to Vegas is the only times that they talked about their future. But since they agreed on everything throughout that ride, she felt as if everything was going to be fine. It was infuriating because it felt as if they were going to wing an already unstable relationship. It felt like the writer wanted them to be married so badly that she just made it happen without any forethought.
There were a few times were their relationship really made me think though. There were a few times where, after the abuse, I was really upset with Lily for even thinking about taking him back. But I like the way the author broke down her thought process. How 'oh it may have been partly my fault', 'we were drinking', and 'this isn't usually like him'. She's completely right. It's so easy for me to judge her since I've never been in a abusive relationship to wonder why they won't leave or why the guy hits her. And I hope I never really do but reading (or listening) to this really put things in perspective for me.
With that being said, I wish that Ryle had more consequences for his actions. Because besides from getting a divorce from Lily, there really isn't any. Lily didn't file a report from her (almost?) sexual assault or the times he beat/hit her. She purposely didn't go to the hospital that he worked at because she didn't want his co-workers to ask questions (going to a further hospital after getting beat by Ryle). Every step of the way he gets protected. Since the book doesn't go into detail about how Allison and Marshall reacted, it seems as if he is also on good terms with them as well and gets to be an active part in his child's life. But yet, for some reason, the author writes the ending as if Ryle is finally beginning to understand that he doesn't get another chance and gravity of what he did. I understand that Lily is trying to take things one day at a time BUT Ryle has shown time and time again that he has moments of extreme rage where he cannot control himself. And she want to share custody???? Her reasoning behind it is because her father never hit her, Ryle won't hurt Emmerson either. But Ryle isn't her father, so that doesn't make much sense.
Ryle needs therapy, and its interesting that this was never brought up in the book (at least not that I remember). Lily should get therapy too instead of jumping into another relationship with Atlas. She has lots of unresolved issues dealing with her father (shown by how she compares almost ever guy she meets to him), her mother (was afraid of being like her), and now, Ryle.
The two abusers' (Ryle and Lily's father) that are featured in this story get away with what they did. I'm not sure if it's a ploy by the author to get those who are experiencing abuse to speak up (it doesn't read that way) or a oversight, but it really shouldn't be that way.
I'm still glad that I listened to this book, but now that I look over my review, I never really liked their relationship.
Wow, such an in-depth amazing comment, thank you for sharing! ❤️ Ryle and Lily both need therapy in my opinion and you’re right, I don’t think this was ever brought up during the book. I think Ryle only asked Lily to help him with anger management, if I remember correctly, but no professional therapy was ever discussed. I agree that Lily’s thought process was interesting and I appreciate the author’s attempt to show us what was going on in her head at the time…but the fact that no one suffered consequences for anything was maybe the thing that bothered me most.
@@Skumaskot Ryle did actually go to therapy, its mentioned in the book as something he did from a young age to manage his emotions
@@claudia_965 Hadn’t he quit therapy by the time he’s in a relationship with Lily though? I feel like the therapy he did as a child addressed completely different issues. Maybe I’m mistaken, it’s been a while since I read the book!
@@Skumaskot I don’t know if it’s mentioned whether he continued it or not, but it was for the trauma relating to why he became violent. They could both definitely do with more therapy tho, don’t get me wrong.
@@claudia_965 Let’s hope in a sequel where he gets the help he needs then! 😅
Honestly as a person who has been in an abusive relationship, this book really resonated with my experience. Not every abusive relationship is escalated to the point of the victim being killed, and often the relationships just aren't built in the right way. I think this book really shines a light on these cases, and made me feel more validated, as I didn't feel like my ex partner was bad enough of awful enough for me to call him an abuser. This story is for people who are like me, and its nice to see that and feel validation for the way I've healed. I know you've seen the worst case scenario, but as a person who was in a bad situation but not the worst this book is very important to me. Your opinion is right in that in a lot of cases this approach isn't safe, and I'm glad you've made this video :)
Yes!!! Although I agree with this videos take and her points, as some one who was raised in an a house hold with domestic violence I really resonated with the story, it was really realistic at least to me in regards to what I went through as a child seeing my mother in this situation and still hearing her talk about it. Overall both the book and this video did resonate with me though!
@Claudia Read I’m glad the book was a positive and useful experience for you and made you feel validated…I hope you’re doing better now! ❤️
@@dianarubio7585 I can imagine feeling torn about it! I’m glad the book and the video both resonated with you though!
As a lawyer that works w family and criminal law I agree 100 %. She should have filed a police report and involved authorities to get supervised visitation.
In the sequel Ryle actually chokes her out of jealousy again.
She left no paper trail of his abuse and he suffered no real consequence besides not being married to her still. That kind of abuse does not always end with a divorce. It can worsen it. Women get killed for leaving and being with another man. Men take it out on their child instead and often use the kid as a tool to control the mother still.
I really regret that Lily saw it fit to leave a defenseless child with someone who tried to rape her and blacks out with rage.
I'm so sorry I missed your comment! Anyway...I know right? This is exactly how I feel. I get that situations aren't black and white but when you work in a legal profession you're trained to see the red flags. It's like knowing a train wreck is going to happen and being completely powerless to stop it.
I haven't read the sequel and honestly I don't think I will, Colleen Hoover is just not my cup of tea. It's not so much the fact that she depicts a problematic relationship, it's the way she does it, like it's almost romanticised? I recently read My Dark Vanessa by Kate Elizabeth Russell, and that book also features an abusive, dark, deeply disturbing relationship but nothing about it is romanticised or trivialised, even though the protagonist decides to never report anything and is actually still in contact with her abuser many many years later...such a wonderful book! Have you read it?
The fact that Lily left her child with him is beyond me. Really? A toddler that can't even speak?? With someone who blacks out with rage?? Couldn't she at least have someone supervise...?
I understand what your saying but do realize that Hoover was writing based on her own outcome and understand how the ending made sense to her. However I also thought that no one would share custody with an abusive ex partner.
I understand her perspective but still wasn’t crazy about that ending 😕…it’s naive to think “my dad never abused me so surely Ryle won’t abuse my child and will be a great father”. Also, sharing custody would mean being often alone with a man who has demonstrated time after time that he can snap at any time. I’m glad her personal outcome was a positive one though!
I found reading the authors note at the end very insightful. The author based the book on some of her own experiences in which her father was abusive to her mother but was still able to have a good relationship after her parents divorced. Abuse cases are all different, and I get that this book didn’t have the best ending in terms of what was the best option for the child but I feel like the book has a very real and nuanced take on how people deal with abuse
I think this book resonates very differently depending on our own life experiences!
I feel like the message the author is trying to put out there is that it is and it sounds logical to leave a toxic relationship when you're not part of it (When you're an observer). But when you're actually in the relationship its hard to cause this one person makes you feel really good or maybe even makes you the best version of yourself but the very person makes you feel the worst. To be honest I feel like that's why most women stay in abusive relationships. People outside the relationship aren't really feeling how you feel and can easily make a logical decision. And maybe the purpose of the book is to create awareness and encourage people to be like lily and actually make a decision to leave her abuser unlike her mother.
It is very hard to leave a toxic relationship, but I feel like the author wrote it in a way that ended up romanticizing Ryle, despite giving us a lot of Lily's perspective. At least she got out though!
@@Skumaskot Maybe she was trying to tell us that not all abusers are complete monsters. They also have good characteristics that make you want to say in the relationship. What do you think?
@@ngosamwelwa2474 I think most abusers have some good qualities that make it really really hard to leave, and that it’s very easy to judge from the outside but very difficult to deal with from the inside. Lily made the right choice to leave, and that’s definitely a positive aspect of the book. However, it’s the ending that I wasn’t crazy about, it seems a bit simplistic. I don’t think leaving an infant who cannot speak or defend herself with an abuser who snaps at random times is the best choice…
I usually do not comment on videos, but I do have to say that im thankful you did this video.
In my experience I bought the book because a lot of people on TikTok were saying it was amazing, but when I ended the book I couldn't understand (still don't understand) why was Ryle so praised. Even thought I consider the book is overall well written as you said, it ends up being really unrealistic.
I also think we are forgetting about the fact that teens are getting this book, and I think that's problematic to, because they might understand that relationship is okay and if some one hits you then you should stay until it gets so bad that you have to go to the hospital.
I might be overreacting but I think it's important to understand that not only grown people are reading this book.
Sorry for my broke English im still learning 😥
What you said about teens getting the book is exactly what I meant. I worry the books paints a romanticized picture of a problematic and toxic relationship, where, as you mentioned, it’s ok to stay and ignore the red flags until it gets so bad that you need the hospital, and even then all you need to do is break up with the guy and everything will be fine. Your English is great! 😊
A lot of abuse victims are people who have lost their self-worth along the way or had little sense of self from the beginning. The abuser would thrive by making us feel worthless, incompetent, wrong or broken. Unworthy. (I’ve only yet watched the movie so I don’t know for sure whether Ryle did that or not)
So even when victims realise they have been abused, they are met with two things: one, their own lack of self worth, which means they don’t want to destroy someone’s life,, no matter how badly the other person may have changed the trajectory of the victim’s life.
And second, the victim blaming culture, which puts the entire responsibility on the victim to recognise the abuse they are going through, while they are going through abuse and probably living in fear and other mental health conditions that result from the same abuse, while also, most probably, managing other responsibilities like job or child care.
(Two reasons why I think people don’t report their abusers to their authorities.)
I love Hoover bc she gets me so hooked in a story, I HAVE to find out what happens. Doesn’t necessarily mean I like what actually happens .. the fact there are so many positive reviews for her books is crazy to me. Most of the story lines are pretty toxic in my opinion, but she’s popular so everyone likes it?
Thanks for the honest review!
I think she’s a great writer so she’s able to craft these storylines that - as you said - really keep you hooked. I haven’t read any other book by her but I definitely think the storylines in this specific book are toxic…and to be honest my expectations were SO high for this book because everyone seemed to love it so much, so it was sort of a double disappointment. Do you have any recommendations for her other books?
So I remember reading Hopeless in high school and I loved it so I just reordered it with Losing Hope. not sure how much my taste has changed in like 8 years lol. But I recently ready Maybe Someday and Ugly Love. Honestly, (I don’t want to spoil anything) I didn’t not like what she did with the characters in those books either. I really have a confusing relationship with this author😂 I finish the books in a day and I’m so invested but I find myself asking why she had her characters do those things. I think I will save her for when I’m in a reading slump and I need to stay hooked.
@@melanievazqu3z I think I might pick up Verity next, it sounds like my cup of tea! From what I’ve read about Ugly Love, it veers into the same territory as this one and I’m 90% sure I wouldn’t like it, so I think I’ll stay away. Believe it or not I hate giving negative reviews 😅…I’ll check out the other ones you mentioned though!
I often find myself in a dilemma about how much can I judge the writer for the book. Meaning how would I know what the intent for writing a story like this was or if it was just a fictional story and nothing more. I thought about this a lot when reading Wuthering heights. So many reviews about how much people hated this book for having such awful, toxic characters yet I found it more realistic than a lot of the characters we meet in books….not to say people should learn form them or live life like them although I think that’s rather obvious for the reader.
I often find myself in the same dilemma and normally choose not to elaborate further, but I couldn’t stop thinking about this specific book…I think what bothered me most is not the fact that the characters were toxic, but rather the fact that everything was resolved easily and cleanly, and everyone got a happy ending. This I did not find realistic at all. In fact, to me it was a naive, oversimplified and dangerous perspective to promote. Wuthering Heights to me always felt like a tragedy through and through, the characters don’t get any kind of respite or positive ending, and the author doesn’t romanticize the toxicity of her characters. Context and culture at the time of writing also come into play. I guess for me it depends on the book but you make a valid point!
Dexter is a bad guy in his novels. Ryle is an abuser in this novel. It's called a story.
Lilly made bad choices, but leaves in the end. Isn't that a positive lesson to readers? In real life, many don't leave at all.
There are foundations set out from the start showing red flags regarding Ryle... first thing lily sees is Ryle losing his temper and physically taking it out on an object, he has obsessive tendencies, he has obvious commitment issues that he knows the root of etc
Agreed, the red flags are so clear from the beginning 😫🚩
I work at a DV/SA shelter for 11 years. You nailed it.
Thank you ❤️
Bestie i'm not a colleen hoover fan. However, I've worked in family law and let me tell you that the family court doesn't give af about abuse toward mothers. Judges often prefer for a child to have contact with both parents. Even in some cases where there was abuse toward the child, it's very hard to get sole custody. Even if Lily did get a restraining order, that doesn't always cover the child.
I think it very much depends on the country…as I mentioned I’m not a US based lawyer, so thank you for your perspective! It’s taken quite seriously where I live :) In any case, what did you think of the book?
Question for you though….if Lily pressed criminal charges, wouldn’t Ryle potentially end up in jail anyway? Before any battle for custody etc.
I guess what bothered me most is that she deemed it safe to leave a toddler with him, aside from any legal discussion, which as you mentioned may frequently not be favorable to the mother anyway.
I identified with this book and it really hit home for me. My Father was the same way as Lilly's Father. He was verbally and slightly physically abusive to my mom but NEVER to me so my mother got us out before it could get to that point. He still never was that way to me the whole 27 years he was in my life before he passed away in 2015. I was also in an abusive marriage (verbally never physically) and I got out myself and now we are much better friends than we ever were together. It is so hard for some people to understand but it can work. This book was great IMO and I personally could relate a lot. But I know not everyone can.
Personal experiences have such a huge role in determining whether we enjoy a book or not…I’m glad you identified with it and liked it, I can see why even if my opinion is different. 🙂
I loved the book. But it destroyed me inside because of what this book made me feel. Some times it felt like I was romanticizing DV but after reading the authors note I understood that was the whole point.
The author was really lucky with her dad, most abusive relationships are really not like that. Just my opinion though!
I can see why Lily would want her daughter to have a relationship with Ryle. I can understand. HOWEVER, having grown up in a family where my father was incredibly abusive towards me and my mom, Lily's decision is ultimately very likely to be damaging. Why on earth would you leave your child with a person who cannot control their anger and has proven multiple times that they are abusive, especially when said child cannot articulate how they are being treated. The best thing my mom did was gain full custody of me as a child. Even as an adult now, it terrifies me when I think about what could have happened if she hadn't. Yet this was the conclusion of the book: give the abuser a second chance.
I'm so sorry you had to go through such a horrible situation. As you mentioned, Lily's decision was likely to be damaging, as well as irresponsible. The child was so young that she couldn't have spoken up anyway! If anything, the message of this book should have been DO NOT give abusers a second chance. I'm glad your mother was able to gain full custody of you as a child and I hope you're doing well now.
Agree, plot completely oversimplifies intense themes. Divorce involving children almost never goes well. Thinking the situation through before marriage is a message our society needs! Kelly
The representation of domestic abuse survivors is important, which is what this book delivered, but I agree that it isn't realistic to have idealistic expectations of how a woman or man might act if they get out of a toxic, manipulative, and toxic relationship (especially like Lily giving joint custody to Ryle).
Thank you for your perspective!
@Skumaskot I stumbled upon you via ur “unpopular opinion” thumbnail…so keep doing these types of reviews cause I most definitely agree with you and wish you would write a book to “what would you tell your daughter” real life red flags and step by step instructions on how women should protect themselves.Thoroughly SUBSCRIBED! 😊✌️✨
Why are people crying over this book is my question? Obviously there were many red flags she missed I'm not sure alot of women would these days!
So many missed red flags! 🚩
finally! i haven't seen anyone that agrees on why it's so problematic, and it's great to see i can have someone to share my thoughts with
I thought I was the only one too 😅
Honestly I read this book because it was EVERYWHERE and EVERYONE was crying over it. I wanted to cry too! I read the book in two days and never seemed to see why people bawled over this 🤷🏻♀️
I know! I didn't cry either, couldn't understand what people were crying about!
I agree with you that Lily should have reported Ryle, the almost rape situation was very serious and it should have been the right thing to do.
However, as the lesson I got from this book, it is hard to make a decision like that, maybe it's a bit simple to say "oh she should have done that" when we haven't been in a situation like that, I just imagine it and yes, I've always believe that going to the police is what I should do, but in reality, living that must be very different and a very hard choice to make knowing what that entitles (sometimes you get no consecuences for the abuser, you get very judged along the way, I feel you can get more traumatized and damaged from it). It shouldnt be like that, everyone should get justice, but reality is sadly not like that, at least here in my country it is very difficult to get the help or solution you should get from acts like these.
Again, I totally agree with you, I wouldn't leave my child with a man that has been that violent either, I think we all know what its the right answer, but it also portrays something that usually happens. Maybe it would have been helpful to show a bit more of that internal dilemma of going to the police, to hint that it was what should have been done but she ultimately didn't decide that (but again, it's colleen hoover's experience so I get why she didn't go that way) But thank you for sharing your opinion!! Maybe we don't totally agree but that's the magic of books, it makes you think and debate what we read!
I agree that it’s a very complicated situation and it’s hard to make the right decision, and this was portrayed well by the author…if there had been more internal exploration maybe I would have a different opinion, but the decision to leave her child with him and not worry too much just rubbed me the wrong way! Thank you for sharing your perspective in such a kind and thoughtful manner though, it’s always nice when people remember that you don’t need to love the same books and have the same opinions in order to talk about books❤️.
I don’t know how I felt about this book, did I love it no it’s sad and hard and real, this book didn’t trigger me like the second did which i found so unrealistic and ugh. Having been emotionally, verbally and pretty much every kind of abused but actual hitting the second book I found so much harder to read when it was suppose to be her love story with Atlas. It was awful. I’ve been in this position and I got full custody of my kids right away, now their safety was more important than mine period. I didn’t not find this book realistic at all from my abused background and the solution was not and if you read the second book it’s worse. Sharing custody with your abuser is bonkers and in the second he’s still a narcissist and involved and just brought up bad memories for me in my life.
You rock thank you. I thought in the book the character did so much to protect herself but actually we can do more. Sad truth goes: lots of people are so confused of what's going on that they choose to stay in the circle of abuse. I'm not saying it's justified. It's not.
Also, the Julia Roberts’ classic - “Sleeping with the Enemy” absolutely portrays how a person gets trapped with a narcissistic psychopath.
And abortion is not mentioned ONCE. Lily just decides to keep her rapist, abusive husbands baby that she names after his dead brother - that he killed!!! Ryle literally begs to fuck her, which is sexual harassment and then Lily just forgets everything Ryle has done and feels safe leaving her child with him alone????? Insane. Colleen Hoover has serious mental problems for writing this book honestly 😂 The book was boring, it took me 3 months to finish. The only character I liked was Atlas and he's barely in the book. I didn't even finish the second one because it was so bad. Colleen is an awful writer, no depth to her characters at all. But she is better at writing side characters. I give IEWU 1/5 and ISWU 0/5.
I personally have been in an abusive relationship. 2 months after we broke up I saw him out at a bar. I literally had a panic attack right outside on the street, just for seeing his face. This book is not at all realistic and it's so sad Colleen decided on that ending. Ryle gets absolutely no consequences for his horrible actions. It's really dangerous writing a book like this. Especially when the target is teenage girls.
I’m so glad you made this video! I agree! I would have loved to see Ryle getting some help.. or be held accountable for the abuse. that’s the only real “solution” there should have been.
Agreed. Ryle DEFINITELY need therapy (then again, they both did!)
But we are told he is in therapy. I mean the theme is going around what he said at the beginning "no such thing as bad people. Just people who do bad things"
men are different when you do not live with them, my ex husband was nice and great, and we lived together, he was great, but, the minute we got married he changed on the same day, we had many great months, but as soon as we married he changed and then later became violent. he cried like crazy and was sorry, but that gets old. then he started blaming me, LOOK what you made me do. etc. so I had a mind job done on me, then my family took his side, so I got a double whammy, I still stood strong, and dumped them all. later he beat up his girl friend after me and took a gun and shot up the place and got on the front page of the newspapers, so I took that to court and got full custody of our three kids. I had the Navy remove him a few times from the home, so he cheated on me the entire time. if it gets bad, get out, do not stay and forgive, and do not do therapy, it never works. LEAVE. I knew a woman, who was planning on leaving her husband and he shot her, so leaving is a very dangerous time with abusive men. That is the most dangerous time of them all. some kill you over child support, some kill you over the money or property, some kill you over leaving them. Leaving is a very dangerous time. I took no money and we split our belongings. he never wanted to pay child support and live in another state so he did not do it. If a man hits you, protect your children.
Unrealistic? Yes. But reality often exceeds fictions.
I believe the reason behind this book's immense popularity is its relatability. Coming from an abusive household, I can understand Lily's certain choices that you couldn’t get (thankfully). I've read the book quite some time ago. I remember being overwhelmed with all sorts of emotions. I felt like wailing, I wanted to go and hug my mother tightly and say sorry to her for not being patient with her moments of being indecisive fearful and tearful. Even trying to describe those emotions is taxing. This is a book most won’t re-read for this very reason. It never leaves you.
I must add that there is no question of hating you for our different opinions on IEWU. We differ in our experiences & situations in life and that difference surely plays a part in forming our perspective.
I’m sorry you had to go through a similar situation, I truly hope you’re doing better now! ❤️ I (thankfully) couldn’t understand Lily’s choices and I’m glad for that…books are so subjective and the different opinions different people can have on the same book is something that never ceases to amaze me! Thank you for sharing your opinion in such a respectful way.
It is so much harder to see in the moment. I do agree that the end glosses over and makes it look a lot more easy than it usually is. I would feel uncomfortable letting a child be around him. In the end, restraining orders all depend on if the other party is capable and willing to follow the restraining order. I have experience as a DV advocate and could recognize a LOT of the tactics used as well as the signs of unhealthy relations. The big thing is that Ryle is charismatic and knows how much to push beyond boundaries then walk back a couple of steps. Consistently pushing status quo. I liked the back for the signs, signals and experience of DV. I think Atlas was a pointless addition and the Rule is meh. Not a romance imo, more of a thriller. The Ellen thing in the diaries was also weird and boring. I would also encourage anyone in this situation to seek out a local DV agency, the police or medical personnel.
I agree with you fully, a restraining order doesn’t always work because many don’t follow them…but at least it’s a first step! I’m curious, which tactics did you recognize? The Ellen thing was kind of weird… 😅
@@Skumaskot I will message the tactics in the morning(passion zone for me, yes I am a nerd 😜). Sometimes it is the write step. Sometimes it pisses them off and escalates things. Really depends on the situation. Also, this requires police coming quick and catching a violation in my state. Can be a call text or whatever too. But say the person drops then dips before police get on scene, then there may be nothing that happens
I completely agree with you. I’m really struggling to finish the book even though I know the way it ends because it’s driving me insane and I’m getting mad at Lily. She absolutely should not allow him to be alone with the baby. For all the reasons you mentioned, I have been feeling the same way! And he really doesn’t deserve her kindness or forgiveness.
Thank you so much for making this video. I didn't like the book. It was triggering.
I was far more triggered by the love-bombing, boundary crossing, etc. narcissistic behavior that Ryle displayed. The physical abuse is a byproduct.
If you ever been in abusive relationship you just get this book.
As I mentioned I haven't (and I'm obviously glad for it). But I'm glad when people feel understood and comforted through reading, it's one of the wonderful things about books.
@@Skumaskot I completely understand where you’re coming from! I don’t know if you know but Colleen Hover came out with a sequel for this book and it actually addressed issued and problems you mentioned in this video as well!
@@sonokoful do you mean It Starts With Us? I haven’t read it yet, have you?
@@Skumaskot yes and I have! In this book she actually explained the Lilly hired a lawyer and tried to get a full custody and so on. She also doesn’t allow her baby to be alone with Ryle overnight which very much inline with what you explained here with the experience you have with your own client. Colleen Hover definitely addressed a lot of questions that we have and extend the story to show that it wasn’t a happy and easy ending as we all thought.
@@sonokoful thank you for the recommendation, I’ll definitely consider reading it! From what you told me it sounds more promising than It Ends With Us (although if she felt the need to write it, it also means she knew she hadn’t addressed everything fully).
I personally liked the writing, the character of Ryle and the way Lily was head over heels for him was very believable but it didn't rub me the right way that the book was so heavily focused on romance. I feel like the focus was on Atlas way too much and it didn't stress the seriousness of being in an abusive relationship... The ending also, with her going immediately back to Atlas definitely didn't feel right. I get that she wanted to show that there always be people who treat us right and we have to settle with them but this was just too quick. Maybe because I'm not a romance fan and I picked this book because I've heard it was different from what Colleen usually writes but the romance was prevalent even here.
I think part of the problem is that this wasn't written to be a romance book but, as you said, it was heavily focused on romance and ended up having a romance-y ending (i.e., a happy ending for all characters, typical of the romance genre, whereas Colleen was aiming to write a contemporary book about abuse). So the ending also rubbed me the wrong way because I would have liked to see Ryle suffer some sort of consequence (anything really, even just having his sister sit in every time he took care of the child), but we got...nothing. And Atlas was just WAY too quick, I don't think anyone recovering from abuse could easily trust another person romantically (also, Atlas was abused as a child, so going by the book's logic, wouldn't that put him at risk of ending up in an abusive relationship too, either as abuser or abused? To me personally that doesn't make a huge amount of sense, but it is a point the book makes).
On a different note, I'm not a romance fan either but I have recently found a few romance books I enjoyed (for example, the Brown Sisters books by Talia Hibbert). What genre do you usually read?
I saw a lot of the red flags and took it as Lily kind of being blind to the red flags - the way that a lot of us can sometimes overlook certain things when our emotions are entangled. I haven't seen anyone talk about the way that Ryle love-bombs her though. And I found it to be very similar to the way that she described her own father's behavior. She said that he would be amazing for a week or two after a big argument. And Ryle was very much the same. He would do things (or buy things) when he was feeling guilty to make up for whatever he did - even before the abuse started. Ryle described himself as very selfish and I think that showed in a lot of his actions. He was so adamantly against a relationship but everything that he did, from the beginning, was done intentionally knowing that it would make her fall for him. I think he was incredibly selfish and controlling but shadowed it by showering her with gifts and feel-good moments.
There's a saying in Italian - which I find particularly fitting - to describe being blind to something because you're emotionally entangled in the situation. It's "hai i prosciutti davanti agli occhi" (literally "you have hams in front of your eyes" -> and these hams prevent you from seeing anything clearly lol). Lily is perceiving a distorted reality, and doesn't want to accept what is going on because she can't see clearly...Ryle is such a huge red flag from the moment we meet him, and everything he does is creepy and controlling in my opinion. I don't understand why people love him so much. As you mentioned, Ryle is selfish and I think all the "nice things" he does (i.e. lovebombing Lily with gifts and attention) are only partly for Lily, but mostly to make himself feel better about whatever he's feeling guilty for.
@@Skumaskot 10000% agree!
The problem with regulating a persons access to their children based on there treatment of other people is that there is no scientific basis for it. The "ice man" who was a prolific hired serial killers in the US, had a really calm and idyllic family life with his children in the suburbs. A women who drinks and loses jobs, steals from friends and embezzles from their companies does not necessary abuse their children in that way but their is a much higher correlation between childhood neglect and even casual drinking in mothers. So every women who goes though a divorce that has a DYI should lose custody of their children? Some women will put men in very dangerous situations by putting men in conflict that they are in relationships with leading to their husband getting assaulted or killed, for attention or other benefits, does this mean they will do the same for their children? So I agree that children should have loving and support environments with great parents but this is not actually realistic, and regulating access to children unless their is abuse via a parent is also alienation which has devastating results long term. Pick this scenario that went though the courts not too long ago, a married women was fighting with her husband over massive finical overspending on credit cards, she opted to start and affair with a felon that had been released after a manslaughter conviction. The man carried a firearm that the wife was aware of. She repeatedly told the man she would leave her husband but the husband threatened her life, which she admitted later to be false. The husband discovered the affair happening in their apartment and a fight insured where he was shot three times. The couple got a divorce, should the child they had go to the father because of that situation? One of the shots that was discharged went though the wall and killed their 8 month old child.
So there was no child custody decision. But in other cases that are similar should the father get custody if the mother is creating dangerous and abusive situations, do you see the dilemma. If the court starts regulating custody based on relationship behavior they are siding with custody based on the moral treatment of the spose and not the best interest of the child.
finally someone raise this up, totally agree with you!
Thank you! ❤️I’m glad to know I’m not the only one who feels this way!
I feel like there is no way she would call Atlas for help after that last fight. This dude just went through all of her stuff, read all of her diaries, all bc of Atlas talking about naming the restaurant after her in the article. He attacked her bc of it. There is no way she would risk that and it felt like she kind of glossed over that .
I guess the whole direction of the story was to bring Atlas and Lily back together? It didn’t make sense to me either though
Thank you so much for your common sense!❤ You made me feel that I am not the only one with sanity.
I think you gotta read the sequel it starts with us because it kinda raps your opinion in the book and I think you might like it better if you read that too
I'll look into it, thank you!!
that was the point to' showcase a problamatic character. the story wouldnt be great if he was not. people like that really exist irl. this book was kinda eye opener to me because the cycle needs to end ( saying from personal experiences ) ryle's situation can be explained from a psychological pov ( well thatv doesnt mean that im justifying his actions )
Do you think leaving him but still leaving her child with him would end the cycle though? Just curious to know what you think.
i thought it was problematic but like,, i also thought that was the point. it was showing an abusive relationship from the victims point of view. As a victim of abuse i thought it was realistic, going back to your abuser is something that happens, it’s awful but it happens.
idk i thought it was problematic but that was also the point-??
Maybe that was the point, but too many elements didn’t sit right with me, especially the fact that everyone got a happy ending with no consequences. However, I think it’s difficult to deal with sensitive topics such as abuse, certainly can’t fault the author for trying. Did you enjoy the book? I hope you’re doing better now!
Thank you for being brave enough to say "uuummmm.... what?"
Truly. I appreciate your honest review.
coho did a self reflection on lily because she grew up in a similar environment never did she mention that this was a general case and this book was never a self help book to give advice it was just a fictional story
I know it’s fiction, which is why I’m explaining the reasons why I personally didn’t like it, and I don’t expect everyone to agree with me since books are so subjective. If you enjoyed the book that’s great for you! 😊 I’m sure my opinion won’t take away from your enjoyment.
I have to say, I both really liked and really disliked the book, my opinion changed on it multiple times throughout. Certain things were too unrealistic, e.g all the young adults in this book being EXTREMELY, effortlessly successful. Not saying it’s impossible to become a neurosurgeon at Ryle’s age, or impossible for Alyssa to marry a millionaire and live in a gorgeous apartment, or even impossible to start off a business and have it succeeded and go off without a hitch (Lily and Atlas’ businesses). But it’s just extremely unlikely. It’s not relatable. However some parts were very realistic, especially Lily’s reactions to abuse and how she avoided doing certain things in order to not cause issues for Ryle and ruin his career/ life. Some people say it’s too realistic / problematic, but I have to give it to Colleen, sometimes uncomfortable truths have to be shown in literature in order to have the same impact on the reader. I think it would actually be more problematic for Lily to have acted any differently, because it would make women / men who are in that situation feel weak because they didn’t get out sooner or ‘fight back’. I think it really depends on how you view the world and relationships on how you perceive this book. I don’t think there’s really a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ way to interpretative this book, because abuse can be complex. I think Colleen painted Ryle out as such a handsome, caring man from the beginning because that’s what all victims are led to believe before they end up being abused and see the persons ‘true colours’. It was very realistic in some ways, and I think Colleen did a great job of dropping a lot of red flags before the abuse even started, e.g Ryle doing weird, obsessive things prior to the physical abuse. A lot of people found it difficult to let go of Ryle in the book and were upset it ended the way it did, but Colleen did that on purpose, because that’s how a victim actually feels. It’s hard to let go and come to terms with the naked truth. Overall I think it was definitely thought provoking and makes you reflect.
Exactly. The author put those red flags in - but if a person has never been taken in and subsequently emotionally trapped by a narcissist, they do not see what all those red flags are. They just see super hot “dangerous” sex, over-the-top Hollywoodish emotionally manipulative behavior (on the part of the abusive narcissist), very premature intimate (not sexual) emotional sharing - I.e. “naked truth” in the book. I wish some of these more naive readers could have this explained to them. They fall in love with Ryle because the author described the narcissist’s playbook too well. Makes me worried for these young ppl, they are ripe for the plucking for manipulative and toxic ppl.
Life is problematic.
True
I just want to let people who think using the term "problematic" loosely is okay, know that just because you didn't like a scene, does not mean it doesn't have relevance. That is how you educate and increase conversation about topics as important as domestic and sexual abuse.
For me personally it wasn’t the abuse scenes that I found problematic so much as the consequences (or rather lack thereof) of those scenes, that could have been handled better. Everything resolved for the best and no one suffered any real consequences (and in fact everyone got a happy ending), and I feel like that’s a dangerous message to send. But of course it you enjoyed the book that’s great, we’re all entitled to our opinions :)
@@Skumaskot that is real life. people do not suffer consequences of their actions sometimes. we don't live in an ideal world. the point of the book was to showcase that you can get out of an abusive relationship. there was no other point than that, and it delivered what it needed to. there are other books that showcase the aftermath of an abusive relationship and the actions you can take against someone. the thing is, what's problematic is people thinking there is an ideal way to resolve such issues is with legal action and not allowing your child to meet with their other parent. LIFE does not work that way, and people are complex enough to come up with different routes that work for them. I understand where you are coming from, but if lily were a real person, people would not be allowed to berate her for the path she chooses in the future. and so if this book is realistic, how is problematic?
Thats why u should not marry someone in vegas
Ha! 😂😂Missed your comment before but 100% agree!
To be honest sometimes you have to see your father even though he is abusive. My dad was abusive to my mom and they gave them joint custody. But you are correct. My dad ended up beating my mom again. 13 years ago. I have never seen my dad since by choice. But I texted him. He still wouldn't admit what he did even though I am a witness to it. Family court in the United States do not care, So I don't know if this is a fair book review because this happens in the United State everyday. There are many children who has visitations with their father even though they were abusive to their mothers. It is not a choice. I never read the book but it does seems a bit harsh because the ending did seem realistic because if she refused to let her child see her dad. There will be custody battles and the courts can and will force the child to visitations unless you can provide proof of the abuse.
As I mentioned, I don't live in the US so I don't know the specifics of court there. I'm very sorry you had to go through such a traumatic experience, I hope you're doing better now! Regarding Lily, there's one instance in the book where he assaults her and almost rapes her. I think he breaks her nose although I don't remember 100%. Anyway, she ends up in the hospital with multiple signs of abuse which clearly no nurse believes is the result of "falling down the stairs". Wouldn't that count as proof?
@@Skumaskot I am not trying to be mean. I did not mean to make your points invalid because I agree with you. on an idealistic level. In my case even though my mom showed proof of her broken jaw that he gave her and I even wrote what I saw that night, the judge still ordered supervised visitations. He said "The child shouldn't have a choice in the matter."Then my dad did not fall through on his deal so I did not have to go and visit him. Then a couple years later he filed to get custody of me. Which was a traumatizing experience but maybe that was when the proof actually worked or maybe he gave up on that. I don't know if he was just messing with her or really wanted custody of me. So, I did not have to see him. My dad tried to contact me through the years but he never admit to what he did or apologized. Go figure.
I am sorry I made it seem like I hated your review. I loved your review even though I add me 2 cents and did not read the book and don't plan to. Your review came at the right time and gave me the validation I need. The negative reviews of a book did. I know that I am not crazy for being uncomfortable with visiting my dad for my own safety even though others are like "forgive you father". "You need a father" Including my mom before she died. But that was only because she was dying. I was just saying that in the U.S. it is not that simple. Fathers and mothers can still have court ordered visitation even when they sexually abuse their own child with proof. Which makes it easier for abusers to get back at the other parent and use their child as some kind of leverage. I mean the character in the book could have fought for full custody by I am assuming that would be an entire different novel and the U.S. family court system.
@@lisah8438 I'm sorry, maybe my tone didn't come across the way I intended it but I absolutely didn't think you hated my review or were trying to be mean! My question "wouldn't that count as proof?" was legitimately curious regarding the system and I was not trying to undermine what you said in any way. For example, it is normal for judges here (Italy) to have hearings with the children and actively ask what they think and whether they want to see the parent. The judge may end up allowing visitation anyway, but generally, there's no way it would be considered in presence of abuse (though, of course, it's different if there's no proof). The events you mention from your own personal experience are horrifying, I'm so sorry you had to deal with that; don't let anyone tell you who you should and shouldn't forgive, that's only for you to decide and your feelings on the matter are always valid. I'm very sorry you had to go through such traumatic events, I hope you're doing better now! ❤
I read less than 100 pages into this book on audio and I could already feel that Ryle was not the kind of man I like to read about. They way he started touching Lily without consent when they first met and definitely the whole thing where he was trying to destroy the chair. Major red flags. I DNFed about 20% of the way in because I felt the ick. My friend just read Verity though and loved it 😊
I am really curious about Verity! I agree, the chair incident especially was a major red flag regarding his anger (I also should have DNFed). And all the issues with consent. Ick ick ick!!!!!
The description of Ryle shows how a classic narcissist traps ppl with love bombing, rush to sex, sex tinged with simmering violence, immediate inappropriate sharing of deeply personal things (“naked truth”). The foundation of an abusive intimate relationship was laid, and that was probably the most realistic and beneficial part of this book. The physical violence only comes after the fly (Lily) gets trapped in all that honey Ryle poured on her.
Lily was his outlet he now has the kid
Poor kid 😫
I absolutely loved the book but I appreciate you making this video. I had the same thoughts but I guess I've just gotten used to overlooking these kinds of issues because that's what always happens. People always forget about the child. It also bothered me that Lily only considered her mother to be the victim in her childhood. But if a father is abusive to a child's mother when the child is present, he is being abusive to that child as well, even if he doesn't lay a hand on her. (Which he DID do once, and Lily's mother chose not to protect her even after that. I understand the situation was difficult for her mother, but there was zero acknowledgment in the book that Lily was a victim too.)
On a side bar it is only in the resent age that we had a large group of long living mothers, death during childbirth and from other factors was extremely common, so there was more father centered family life because he was likely to be the survivor if not the extended family this changed very recently so the roles and expectations are changing. A lot of the "power" and authority that seems to make no sense came out of that fact and a different reality.
She gets a place close to work after divorce. I agree about leaving the baby with him. His sister and brother in law should have been present at all visits
Agreed! His sister in particular good have been a good "mediator" between them since she's his sister but also her friend...I did find it strange that she basically pretended nothing was going on when he was clearly being abusive though.
When I saw the title of your video, I was like: “oh man.. what can someone possibly complain about this piece of gem?” - but I ate all my words because you are so right! The book involves you in a way that doesn’t let you see the bigger picture, but the moment you take a step back and really analysis the situation.. yeah, you couldn’t be more correct! Thanks for making this video, for explaining the issues with it so eloquently and bringing awareness to everyone.
Thank you for keeping an open and critical mind! Have you read any other Colleen Hoover books? I still want to give her another chance!
EDIT: spelling :)
@@Skumaskot I have not, but the amount of times I got recommended “Verity” is wearing on me and I’ll probably read that one next, once I’m finished with my current book!
It makes my head hurt that so many readers get butthurt and think that the relationship between characters should be peachy-hunky-dory and that to make it even slightly 'problematic' means that there's something wrong with it. Is the male a controlling sociopath? So be it; it's that way for a reason. It does NOT mean that the author is 'romanticising' it, any more than Thomas Harris is romanticising cannibalism with the Hannibal books. Sorry, rant over. I'm not saying that this applies to you, but to SO many who review her books.
I agree, the relationship doesn't have to be peachy-hunky-dory (so many real ones aren't anyway). I didn't take issue with the way the relationship was portrayed but rather with the lack of consequences and the fact that everybody got a happy ending, which, considering how Ryle is a controlling sociopath - as you said - just didn't sit right with me, and it kind of blurred the lines with the romance genre (where everything always ends well)...so I guess I thought that could have been handled differently (but of course, this is only my opinion). Did you enjoy the book?
Love your user name btw!
@@Skumaskot Good points all around. I didn't particularly like or dislike the book, it had strengths and weaknesses that made me conclude a three stars out of five rating. And I apologise if you thought that I was being critical towards you, I didn't mean it that way. Thanks for the username comment, it's a play on the old tabloid headline 'Freddie Star ate my hamster', and when I was choosing a username Taylor was on the radio so I combined the two 😁
Take care x
@@M.H.I.A.F.T. no I absolutely didn’t think you were being critical of mean towards me, it’s always fun to discuss books! I also think the book had some strengths, I quite like her writing style. Did you read any other of her books?
I don't understand why nobody talks about mental health issues. Ryle shot his brother and obviously didn't recover from his trauma. Yes it does not give him the right to hit anyone but a person who loses consciousness when he is angry in my opinion should be followed by a shrink. Lily is traumatized by her father's actions. It seems like, her whole adult life she tries not to be like her mother. For me she is traumatized and she should have help especially when she is going through the same thing.
As for the ending, I understand that she wanted her child's father to be a part of her child's life, but they both should have had help long before the child was born. they had months to find the beginning of a solution but they preferred to avoid the situation
It's sad the ending ruined the rest of the book for me. And for the story with Atlas for me it should have stayed in the past. Sometimes the best thing to do is to recognize the past, forgive without forgetting but to move on. And Atlas will always represent the past
As far as I remember - but it's been a while - Ryle was in therapy after he shot his brother. It's unclear whether the therapy continued, but seeing his anger issues it clearly didn't address everything! I agree, they had months to find a solution and they just kind of...went with the flow (which is not the best idea in that kind of situation). I also really didn't like the fact that it's heavily implied she gets back with Atlas at the end (who is now rich and successful and everyone is happy!). The ending also ruined it for me, it could have gone in so many directions. Also, they both should have gone into therapy as adults.
I've read a few Colleen Hoover books and I think It Ends with Us is her best, so I don't really have other recs. They're all well-written but they all have a similar sort of over-simplification of trauma and healing. I haven't read the majority of her books so that might not be true across the board. And it's not as if that is something only Hoover does. This is super common in romance especially but in all fiction too.
It is hard to really portray healing. People say they want to see it, but they don't. It's ugly and frustrating (trust me; I've written the book with in depth healing and the book that skips over healing; people like the latter way better). So authors are sorta screwed either way. I think Jenette McCurdy's recent memoir I'm Glad My Mom Died did a great job showing the difficult process of healing without being too hard to read, but it's certainly not easy to read.
I’m Glad My Mom Died is SO GOOD! It did such an incredible job of portraying abuse and messed up healing and, even though Jennette clearly also loved her mother the abuse was never romanticized. I found her perspective so fresh but also difficult to read and uncomfortable. An incredible book and I’m glad you enjoyed it too :)
@@Skumaskot Yes, it was great! I think My Dark Vanessa dealt with the aftermath of abuse in a real, nuanced way too, though it's different subject matter. Those were two of my recent favorites. But neither is genre fiction and that shows. For some reason, Colleen Hoover's books are held up as "above romance" but they're not. They are romance and they are similarly limited by the frameworks of the genre. Not because the genre is in any way bad or lesser (I also write romance) but because it has a certain framework with rules and expectations. (Especially by the inevitable happy ending expected of the genre. Because no matter how much we say a book does not romanticize or simplify something, the happy ending will). But such is the difficulty of truth within commercial fiction. It's always a battle between what will sell and what feels real (assuming the author actually wants to show what feels real; plenty don't).
@@Skumaskot Unbearable Lightness is another good memoir about an actress with an ED, but IIRC the book is mostly focused on the ED itself, not so much on the healing process. I loved the book More Than You Can Chew (fiction but inspired by the author's life) as a teen (it's about a woman in inpatient treatment and very much about treatment without being a total bummer) but I haven't read it as an adult to see how it holds up.
@@crystalkaswell3438 you won’t believe this but I’m actually half way through My Dark Vanessa right now! I’m really “enjoying” it (as much as you can “enjoy” a book with this subject matter, but what I’m trying to say is that I deeply appreciate it and think the writing is fantastic).
I agree with everything you said about Colleen Hoover’s books, and I think one of the aspects that bothered me most is how everything was resolved in the end and everyone got a happy ending with literally no consequences. I guess her books just aren’t for me, though I can see why they may resonate with many readers.
I’ll definitely be checking out your other recommendations though since apparently we have the same taste in books, thank you for those! 😊
@@Skumaskot For sure! Let me know if you find anything similar. I'd love another great book about abuse and power. Or really anything that really dives into the nitty gritty, nuanced complicated stuff AND comes out the other side (if that makes sense).
(I hate to compare anything to The Handmaid's Tale, because it's such an iconic book, but that is the book I thought of most reading My Dark Vanessa. It's just so smart about power and gender. The structure of My Dark Vanessa is very interesting as well, but I won't say anything to spoil that).
Colleen wrote this book for her mother. She knew what she was writing.
I guess, still didn't enjoy it though. But obviously that's just my personal opinion.
I liked your take ❤Ty for the video ❤
She thinks of me as his Ryle, but we are in Long distance relationship since last 11 years. I don't even know what should i do, and one small detail I should share is she does have a very bad temper. Now i seriously don't know how am I Ryle.
Unfortunately I don't think I can help you, as I'm not licensed to give any sort of qualified relationship advice. Thank you for watching, I hope my review brought you some comfort. ❤
This movie was awesome! It was one of the best movies I have seen this year and I am a guy. My Dad also loved the movie. I know it will not get oscars attention but both the movie and Blake Lively should get some awards credit. It will end up being better than some of the Oscar movies later on.
I’m only talking about the book, not the movie! Maybe the movie handled it better and anyway, it’s just my opinion on a book 😊
@@Skumaskot Ok. I should have deleted the hard disagree because I do not know enough about the book.
It’s a fiction… Not a self-help… People read books to escape well, I do, and I like to pretend that the world is as simple as her books
I guess, but I prefer to "escape" to other genres (e.g. fantasy), not so much into abusive relationships. To each their own though!
You just spoke so good! I have same thoughts excellent video
Did you read the book? What are your thoughts?
@@Skumaskot I did I didn't like it at all red flags were already right there in front of Lily's eyes she was stupid to marry Ryle
@@itsrahmaislam agreed 😣
When you walk a mile in someone's shoes you will understand. Most of us read this book from the pov of someone who has never been abused so even our solutions are from that pov.
That’s true but as I lawyer my perspective - while certainly not the same as the victim’s - isn’t entirely neutral either. People come to us for help and are truly desperate, which is why I can’t stand it when abuse is romanticized. Sometimes we have to listen to recordings for court, which is horrifying. Thankfully I have not had many cases like this but I can tell you - as a personal choice - that I would turn down the defense of an alleged abuser.
I've been trying to figure out why people think this is problematic. (I view it as being about breaking the cycle of abuse.) So greatly appreciate your insight ... and it's brave given how her fandom can be haha. Thank you.
(I've actually seen a loooot of people complain about her and this book, you're far from alone.)
I do believe this will resonate with many people.
Recs?
I also really liked 'Reminders of Him' for some perspective. And also Without Merit ... starts out kinda slow, but ultimately, lended some perspective as well.
Heart Bones was fun as well. Fave is prob ... Hopeless because it's eerily close to my own life.
Aha ... just heard the 'oversimplified' part. Yea, I can see that. She does get more into it with 'It Stars With Us', but I'm not sure it'd be your jam. It's also a bit unrealistic for many people in that Lily ends up having this AMAZING support system ... and that's composed of Rile's family & best friend. Most DV victims, I feel, do not have this.
And yea. You totally make great points. No disagreement on those at all. Thank you again for sharing.
Thank you so much for listening to my perspective with an open mind! I'm not sure Colleen Hoover is my jam in general, but I do appreciate that she tried to address some concerns in 'It Starts With Us'. I agree, the amazing support system is unrealistic, especially considering the fact that it's mostly made up of Ryle's family.
I think I'm going to be taking a break from Colleen Hoover in general, but I'm always looking for more great books to read so please feel free to recommend anything else (i.e., books not written by Colleen Hoover). Thank you for your recommendations in any case!
@@Skumaskot Yea, I get that you're all set on Hoover, haha. I should've actually already gotten that. I guess I had her on the brain.
Let's see ...
So this was ... okay, so LOTS of feels, but ultimately, so sweet.
'As the Stars Fall'. By Steve N Lee
And ... if you like creepy / weird stuff ... I just read a couple of Stephanie Ayers titles that were fun. All hers are short reads. "The Thing from the Stars" < That one's weird, but I thought it was fun.
"Blood White". Kinda creepy / urban legend thing.
hm... If you like romance (sans abuse haha) Sandra Daniels is good stuff. Saving Jared, Callahan's Haven, any of hers, really.
Oh
Like Matches for Wishes if you like fairy tale retellings. By Lee Ann Ward. Wow, it was so well done. 'Little Match Girl' was the most depressing fairytale EVERrrrrr maybe? Idk but it's sad. Lee Ann put out a happy retelling-sort-of thing. (
It's actually live Nov. 22, but I already read it, ages ago when it was in a limited-time set.)
You are not alone. I think the book is for young girls, so...... I read it because I'm an English learner. I chose books that tend to be easy. That's a good side of it.
I was new to reading and didn’t realize that looking up trigger warnings before reading this book. As a survivor of DV, this book triggered me so incredibly bad and fk’d my head up for a long time. I will never read triggering books again, because I just can’t handle it. I had no idea it involved DV when starting the book. Finished it in one sitting.
Trigger warnings are important and should always be easily visibile…but that often isn’t the case. I hope you’re doing better ❤️
I originally heard great reviews and wanted to read this book for the compelling storyline. I liked it, however there were some things I didn’t like. Mostly that was Ryle. Ryle and Lily. Their relationship. Ryle showed red flags from the beginning, which were all ignored. And later on, he was forgiven so, so easily. By his family, by Lily. I understand he has had traumatic experiences in life which have caused “rage blackouts” but his behavior is extremely concerning. It seemed like he had a bigger secret than his blackouts, like he had seriously hurt someone in the past, or exhibited obsessive, abusive behavior before. I thought they were going to go that route, but no. He wasn’t a repeat offender, Lily was the only one? His first serious girlfriend at age 30, the first girl he’s been in love with AND he abused her. I find it to be unlikely. I understand perhaps forgiving Ryle after the first fight, it really seemed like an accident. The second fight - he behaved badly, but at least he was honest about why and they made efforts to change it. But after the third fight??? He punched her, scratched her, BIT her. Tried to rape her?? That was horrifying, that was just horrifying. There’s no coming back from that and I think Lily could see that, and that’s why she left. That moment showed what Ryle was really capable of, and I’m so shocked at how easily he was forgiven. His family hardly blinked, he faced no consequences in other aspects of life. And for Lily’s case, she held absolutely no concerns about allowing her child near him. They could’ve done something he may only visit his child with a social worker present. Who’s to say one day he won’t snap and have another blackout and possibly hurt his daughter? Except she’s a tiny little baby, and the situation could be fatal, and it would be all Lily’s fault because she just allowed it.
Also, they never touched upon abortion, or giving the baby away. I understand it is a very political topic, but think of all the arguments against abortions. Not every girl who wants an abortion is “irresponsible”, some are in sticky situations like abuse or rape, or they have no assets or support. The possibility could’ve been very interesting and made a big difference, it’s a very valid option, but it was never even touched upon.
First of all I think Lily should've never lied to her husband 😑😑😑
Someone finally saying it I’m not justifying abuse, but Lily had some faults to
It was a messed up relationship and they both had faults (hence they both needed therapy). Also why Lily kept the diaries is beyond me. But that doesn’t justify abuse, as you said, and to be fair any excuse would have been enough for Ryle, he would have snapped anyway. The first time he hits her it’s because he’s cut his hand and she is laughing…abusers latch on to any excuse for violence.
She lied because she was scared. She knew that he was going to hurt or abuse her again. Her keeping the letters wasn’t a big thing. That was important to her and Atlas was a big impact in her life. There were multiple times when she had fear because of the violence he had and did to her. Her being honest about the magnet wouldn’t have changed his behavior. I think she should’ve kept the journals because they were important to her.
as a 15yo the worst thing somebody can do is recommend this shit to questionable teenagers cuz why do I see yall praising this book like its Jesus on tiktok 😭
Good for you for not buying into the hype! I honestly thought I was going to love it due to how hyped it was…so disappointing!
@@Skumaskot Thanks :D & same I only saw a snippet on tiktok and just nope'd the heck out of reading it I have no idea how people enjoy it ends with us I rather be doing linear equations 😃
Don't understand how this is problematic. She left the abuser for the better guy and did not let the abuser continue the cycle with her kid. That iis a good message not a problematic one. Agree to disagree.
Again, just my opinion! In the book it explicitly says she leaves the child unsupervised with the guy, who is known to have rage attacks. Not the best choice in my opinion but maybe the movie is better. Agree to disagree!
@@Skumaskot Yeah, that is one choice though. It would have been different had she went back to the guy as even her best friend said she would not talk to her again if she did that and that was her brother! I know it is your opinion! Not criticizing you.
It is problematic because very unrealistic.
@@AmicaCream How unrealistic? Don't most people leave eventually? I know some end tragically but I am assuming not all.
@@tonyg76 its the fact that she gave him partial custody, lets him come over to *her* house, and even in the next book she barely actually talks to her daughter about this, and that book is apparently about how her life was affected despite Lily making those choices for her. Even some of the people around her acted like things were chill, assuming she told anybody anything after the multiple incidents which is the most realistic part of this.
This isnt even the only book, almost every guy thinks like him, and on some occasions they're just as violent even if its not directly towards the FMC.
Its half narrative hypocrisy, and half just using her parent's relationship as a scapegoat for her other romances, because the book itself is fairly sexualized and badly handles the topic
Watching this after it starts with us hits different
I haven't read it and I don't plan to! Did you enjoy it? What's it about?
@@Skumaskot I don't know if you'll like it because you didn't like it starts with us, but it's basically a continuation of the story from where it stopped. It delves into Atals' past and even addressed some of the issues you're talking about, like why Lily didn't get a lawyer and the relationship she's building between Emerson and Ryle. It also talks more on her feelings towards Ryle which I feel may help to explain why she's still letting him in her life. I do think you should read it, just so I can watch a video on what you think 😊
@@aleenaalibhai4283 Well it sounds like a promising start, since she addresses the main issues I found with the book. I may give it a shot, thank you!
Amo tus videos 😊
Thank you! 🖤
I started reading this book I'm on chapter 35 honestly, I don't like it but at the same time, my curiosity was so up it wasn't easily put to rest . BIG NO
I need to learn to DNF books I’m not enjoying honestly. Would save me so much time and energy!
todaaaaaayyyyy
Not sure what you mean... :D
ugly love!!! it’s amazing!!
I may give it a shot! Thanks for the recommendation! ❤
You have marriage or relationship problems? You can divorce a bunch of things before you even think of divorcing your partner:
your phone, social media, alcohol, smoking, music, dancing, even your job or your relatives etc. Do those first and see if your relationship and your own personality changes. Often times people can't even name the root cause and deflect blame on other people etc.
100% there can be many issues and root causes. Not sure how this would justify violence though.
For anyone who has read this book and got interested in learning more about domestic abuse or toxic relationships I HIGHLY recommend the following books!
*Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft* The author is a counselor who specializes in working with abusive men. It's a must read if you ever had any abusive men in your life! I'd even go so far as to say that every young woman who dates men should read this book before getting into a serious relationship.
*Helping Her Get Free: A Guide for Families and Friends of Abused Women by Susan Brewster* This is a must read if you have even the slightest suspicion that a person close to you is an abusive relationship. It's an amazing resource to offer real meaningful support to people in toxic or abusive relationships. Even if you don't have a friend in this situation, this book has helped me become a better friend and a better listener!
*The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals That Protect Us from Violence by Gavin de Becke* this one isn't specifically about domestic abuse, but a great book to train you to trust your gut and fear response, to catch dangerous situations early.
Thanks for bringing attention to the fact that the story of Lily paints a very simplified and problematic picture of what abuse looks like and how these relationships resolve.
Thank you for the recommendations, I will certainly check them out! ❤️ The ending definitely felt oversimplified and naive. I’m glad you liked my review!
What I do find scary is that I’ve seen so many videos where young women have said it “changed their view of the world while smiling” … like what does that mean other than you approve of the content. I’m just concerned it’s not ok to make these very real and dangerous relationships ok.
That's what worries me too! I feel like this book even romanticizes some aspects of dangerous relationships. I've seen many comments along the lines of "Lily shouldn't have left Ryle but should have helped him get the help he needed". Like what...?
I did love the book however the synopsis on the back kinda ruined it for me because it legit said Ryle was arrogant and his take on relationships is disturbing so just from reading the back I knew he wasn't what he seemed in the beginning of the book. So I didn't cry at all, I thought it was very obvious what was going to happen and I was just annoyed instead of upset. I did really like the book mainly coz of Atlas and Alyssa tho.
Edit: also her naming their kid after his brother annoyed me so much
I hate it when synopses ruin books!!! Like publishers PLEASE make an effort to not spoil the book in literally THREE SENTENCES which you can fit in the back! 😂 I’m glad you enjoyed the book…the name of the kid is terrible though!
@@Skumaskot I know right! 😂
i read this book in less than 48h and i really enjoyed the quick writing style but for me it was really foreseeable..after she met ryle and we found out about her father you could guess the whole plot. this man was a red flag from the beginning. i also saw many people say they feel bad for him what i really don’t understand. yes he had a reallyyyyy traumatic experience but now he’s a grown man and i think he should take some responsibility and work on his behavior & you can’t tell me that he didn’t know before he had some issues. ALSO WHY TF DID THEY NAME THEIR CHILD AFTER AN ABUSIVE MAN???? he manipulated her from the start and i just felt really bad for lily and i was actually glad that the book had a fairytale ending