One thing I haven't seen, in any video, is how you clean the glue, epoxy, or dop compound from the stone, after transfer. When you transfer to cut crown, there is glue all over the stone. I guess you just grind that away. However, after crown is done, there is still glue on the pavilion side. How do you clean that, after cutting is all done?
There's not usually a reason to clean it off, and the application of solvents and physical force can weaken or break the new bond. I recommend just letting residual wax, epoxy, CA or whatever get ground away as the crown is cut.
Hey john, this video is very helpful but how do you release the stone from the cone dop when it is finished? I am just learning this art form and I have tried soaking it in solvent (the strongest I can find, acetone) for a few hours and it hasn’t released yet. I would be interested in your method, thanks!
Hi, Seaguard, Acetone works just fine. You may have to soak it overnight. If you get impatient (I do NOT recommend that) you can just "cook it off" - heat it to 200+ F and the superglue will fail just like the transfer from the flat. You risk breaking the stone from heat-shock, so I really recommend patience. DO NOT pry at the stone - not even with your fingernail. I have broken too many stones that way. Just be patient. It'll come of nice and clean.
I appreciate the suggestion of the heat shield. I initially dop with wax or epoxy then use CA or 2 part Epoxy for the transfer. Either way, the shield will be a good protection. I have burnt my fingers many times during transfers.
I watched your video AGAIN! I forgot about the fast heating of the dop and was doing it with my lamp oil, guess that is the reason why i have a slight misalignments! Anyway, thank you for sharing all your "tricks" with us! It is really helpful!!! :)
Sorry this is a year-on. I was checking some comments and saw the remark about a "large stone" - and I want to remark on that. I do *NOT* recommend using CA to dop stones to dops larger than 5mm or so: The bonding surface becomes very large - taking sufficiently long to de-bond that heat may transfer through the stone, compromising the cone-side glue bond. Except in unusual conditions (e.g. briolette) for any dop larger than 5mm, there is sufficient surface area to get a secure bond with wax. In any endeavor, it's not good to be a one-trick pony. I suggest learning to use the whole tool-kit - part of which is knowing which tool to use for which task.
Hi John, Don't you have concerns for contracting cyanide poisoning when you heat the cyanoacrylate up ?? Would be deadly interested in your response, sir. Thanks for the heat shield tip.
We do NOT want to cook or burn the CA. If it off-gasses to the point you're smelling it, you're probably doing it wrong. While we are applying heat very aggressively, we're also maintaining gentle pressure against the dop. The instant the dop reaches sufficient heat to de-bond, the dop drops away, removing heat from the CA. (If you see or do one of these up close, yuo'll see the stone-side of the glue remains in-place, intact, and hard.) So, we aren't cooking the glue to the point of off-gassing. Provided you do this right, you'll smell (ingest via lungs) a great deal more CA in the gluing process than in the transfer. (You should really NOT smell much, if any, of the glue during transfer - or you're probably putting enough heat into the stone to compromise the integrity of the cone-side bond.) Is this helpful?
John Bailey .... Yes John, very. Although, since I've not ever used glue yet (Brown wax), but I'm still leary. I also have no idea which gases I'm incurring when I melt my wax. Wish I knew. The one thought that still runs through my little brain is this.... After the top has dropped from the intense heat, it is still heating up at the tip, where the cyanide is. Personally, when and if I use glue, and I probably will, eventually, i will be having it drop into water, or put it in some as instantly as I can. Also, and I know you didn't ask, but do you caution with as much intensity as your high recommendation of massive heat, to your students the dangers of cyanide gas. Cant be too careful with cyanide. It can drop a person as fast as that dop stick. Again, personally, if I were teaching in litigious USA (im Canadian, Vancouver. Do you ever fish a river with a dry fly ?), I would would have every last one of my students sign a waver. No exceptions !! I'm not trying to be smarter than you, sir, I am nearly sharing my meager thoughts openly, in trust that you will see it that way as well. Ok, apologies for the book I'm writing, you're so personable, but I'm having another troubleshoot with my Facetron w/depth dial. By the way, I especially enjoyed your presentation on sighting the compounded. Will be doing that one, for certain. I degrees. The pulley system is problematic for me and my machine. The belt that was there at purchase was, was the wider one. It ticked like mad. Jeff Jarvi (what a great guy) suggested wd40, and I used that to some satisfaction. Finally, after working my first stone in 6 years, and still resorting to wd40 for the very loud tick noise, the belt took a hike. Luckily, my local go to guy (John and Ruth at Western Gem And Mineral. More great folk.) had 3 belts kicking around on their last day before vacation. The timing was perfect. He had some nice rough there too, so I got some of that also. They had 2 thin ones, and one wider, that matched my busted on. I bought all 3. Now, I'm using the thinner one, because there were two. It squeaks, but no ticking. I've seen other folks have the tick trouble on line. I don't use email. Now, I presume that the wd40 finally ruined my old belt, but having the machine sit for 6 years couldn't have helped, either. I like the thin belt because it has no ticking... yet. Ok, so now I use sunlight dish soap for the squeaking, because it also was suggested by online people with Facetrons. It works pretty well, so far. My question is, finally, lol, do you have a better way? I'm ordering more belts from Jarvi in the meantime. What do you recommend for the inevitable ticking ? And what would you use for squeak, as well ? I have set the tension multiple times, and the squeak persists, or the belt slips. I worry about the belt decaying due to the chemical interactions. What say you, sir ? Cheers, indeed, and a very happy and safe new year to you, and all of yours ... !!!
John Bailey..... Sorry, forgot. I am not Allan Boyd. He is my friend, and I'm using his tablet, which I bought for him. My ex girlfriend destroyed mine with a knife. Unbelievable. Allan is a GIA certified gemologist. Long, long story there, for sure. My name is Fred. 1-778-908-5697. My plan allows incoming calls for free, but calling your way would cost me. I am retired at 61, and on a fixed budget. Always have time, in the season for the rainbows in the favourite gravestone river, though. Again, thank you so very much for who you are and maintain.
One thing I haven't seen, in any video, is how you clean the glue, epoxy, or dop compound from the stone, after transfer. When you transfer to cut crown, there is glue all over the stone. I guess you just grind that away. However, after crown is done, there is still glue on the pavilion side. How do you clean that, after cutting is all done?
There's not usually a reason to clean it off, and the application of solvents and physical force can weaken or break the new bond.
I recommend just letting residual wax, epoxy, CA or whatever get ground away as the crown is cut.
i'm a cabber lapidary,, heat release, sounds good to me. i always used ca glue solvent.. but the heat method sounds/looks faster.. cool
Hey john, this video is very helpful but how do you release the stone from the cone dop when it is finished? I am just learning this art form and I have tried soaking it in solvent (the strongest I can find, acetone) for a few hours and it hasn’t released yet. I would be interested in your method, thanks!
Hi, Seaguard,
Acetone works just fine. You may have to soak it overnight. If you get impatient (I do NOT recommend that) you can just "cook it off" - heat it to 200+ F and the superglue will fail just like the transfer from the flat. You risk breaking the stone from heat-shock, so I really recommend patience. DO NOT pry at the stone - not even with your fingernail. I have broken too many stones that way. Just be patient. It'll come of nice and clean.
Thanks for all the tips you are sharing. 😁
You are so welcome!
Ca glue full name please reply fast
Which ca glue full name please reply please
How do you remove gem from Super glue. ?
Soak in Acetone.
I appreciate the suggestion of the heat shield. I initially dop with wax or epoxy then use CA or 2 part Epoxy for the transfer. Either way, the shield will be a good protection. I have burnt my fingers many times during transfers.
I do my best to contribute quality material that will be useful. Your comments encourage me to do more. Thanks!
Thanks John, excellent! These are a great refresher for me :) Really hope I can attend your academy some day. One never knows everything!
I watched your video AGAIN! I forgot about the fast heating of the dop and was doing it with my lamp oil, guess that is the reason why i have a slight misalignments! Anyway, thank you for sharing all your "tricks" with us! It is really helpful!!! :)
+Maxime Ruelle I'm glad you got it - and I'm happy to share the things that help people get past the frustrating parts and on to the fun parts!!
I'm glad the video helped you resolve the issue. You want a BIG torch!
Thank you. My wife is doing a transfer with a large stone and appreciates this video. She gluing the stone and is off to buy a propade torch,.
Sorry this is a year-on. I was checking some comments and saw the remark about a "large stone" - and I want to remark on that. I do *NOT* recommend using CA to dop stones to dops larger than 5mm or so: The bonding surface becomes very large - taking sufficiently long to de-bond that heat may transfer through the stone, compromising the cone-side glue bond. Except in unusual conditions (e.g. briolette) for any dop larger than 5mm, there is sufficient surface area to get a secure bond with wax. In any endeavor, it's not good to be a one-trick pony. I suggest learning to use the whole tool-kit - part of which is knowing which tool to use for which task.
This was great John! Thanks for sharing this info.
Hi John,
Don't you have concerns for contracting cyanide poisoning when you heat the cyanoacrylate up ?? Would be deadly interested in your response, sir. Thanks for the heat shield tip.
We do NOT want to cook or burn the CA. If it off-gasses to the point you're smelling it, you're probably doing it wrong. While we are applying heat very aggressively, we're also maintaining gentle pressure against the dop. The instant the dop reaches sufficient heat to de-bond, the dop drops away, removing heat from the CA. (If you see or do one of these up close, yuo'll see the stone-side of the glue remains in-place, intact, and hard.) So, we aren't cooking the glue to the point of off-gassing.
Provided you do this right, you'll smell (ingest via lungs) a great deal more CA in the gluing process than in the transfer. (You should really NOT smell much, if any, of the glue during transfer - or you're probably putting enough heat into the stone to compromise the integrity of the cone-side bond.)
Is this helpful?
John Bailey .... Yes John, very. Although, since I've not ever used glue yet (Brown wax), but I'm still leary. I also have no idea which gases I'm incurring when I melt my wax. Wish I knew.
The one thought that still runs through my little brain is this.... After the top has dropped from the intense heat, it is still heating up at the tip, where the cyanide is. Personally, when and if I use glue, and I probably will, eventually, i will be having it drop into water, or put it in some as instantly as I can. Also, and I know you didn't ask, but do you caution with as much intensity as your high recommendation of massive heat, to your students the dangers of cyanide gas. Cant be too careful with cyanide. It can drop a person as fast as that dop stick. Again, personally, if I were teaching in litigious USA (im Canadian, Vancouver. Do you ever fish a river with a dry fly ?), I would would have every last one of my students sign a waver. No exceptions !! I'm not trying to be smarter than you, sir, I am nearly sharing my meager thoughts openly, in trust that you will see it that way as well.
Ok, apologies for the book I'm writing, you're so personable, but I'm having another troubleshoot with my Facetron w/depth dial. By the way, I especially enjoyed your presentation on sighting the compounded. Will be doing that one, for certain. I degrees. The pulley system is problematic for me and my machine. The belt that was there at purchase was, was the wider one. It ticked like mad. Jeff Jarvi (what a great guy) suggested wd40, and I used that to some satisfaction. Finally, after working my first stone in 6 years, and still resorting to wd40 for the very loud tick noise, the belt took a hike. Luckily, my local go to guy (John and Ruth at Western Gem And Mineral. More great folk.) had 3 belts kicking around on their last day before vacation. The timing was perfect. He had some nice rough there too, so I got some of that also. They had 2 thin ones, and one wider, that matched my busted on. I bought all 3. Now, I'm using the thinner one, because there were two. It squeaks, but no ticking. I've seen other folks have the tick trouble on line. I don't use email. Now, I presume that the wd40 finally ruined my old belt, but having the machine sit for 6 years couldn't have helped, either. I like the thin belt because it has no ticking... yet. Ok, so now I use sunlight dish soap for the squeaking, because it also was suggested by online people with Facetrons. It works pretty well, so far. My question is, finally, lol, do you have a better way? I'm ordering more belts from Jarvi in the meantime. What do you recommend for the inevitable ticking ? And what would you use for squeak, as well ? I have set the tension multiple times, and the squeak persists, or the belt slips. I worry about the belt decaying due to the chemical interactions. What say you, sir ?
Cheers, indeed, and a very happy and safe new year to you, and all of yours ... !!!
John Bailey..... Sorry, forgot. I am not Allan Boyd. He is my friend, and I'm using his tablet, which I bought for him. My ex girlfriend destroyed mine with a knife. Unbelievable. Allan is a GIA certified gemologist. Long, long story there, for sure.
My name is Fred. 1-778-908-5697. My plan allows incoming calls for free, but calling your way would cost me. I am retired at 61, and on a fixed budget. Always have time, in the season for the rainbows in the favourite gravestone river, though. Again, thank you so very much for who you are and maintain.