PERMACULTURE FARM WHERE SWALES ARE BANNED S4 ● E33
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- Опубліковано 26 кві 2017
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Richard Perkins is a globally recognised leader in the field of Regenerative Agriculture and is the owner of Europe’s foremost example, Ridgedale Farm, Sweden. He is the author of the widely acclaimed manual Regenerative Agriculture, regarded as one of the most comprehensive books in the literature, as well as Ridgedale Farm Builds.
His approach to no-dig market gardening and pastured poultry, as well as his integration of Holistic Management, Keyline Design and Farm-Scale Permaculture in profitable small-scale farming has influenced a whole new generation of farmers across the globe. Garnering more than 15 million views on his blog, and teaching thousands globally through his live training at the farm and online, Richard continues to inspire farmers all over the globe with his pragmatic no-nonsense approach to profitable system design.
Having done my fair share of travel around the world I have come to realise that the main issue is the very limited experience we all got. We often try to transfer our experience to another place that works under completely different conditions. I would like to see someone trying to implement keyline design on a rocky, eroded landscape on a mountain; or in an established 1000 year old olive grove etc.
Swales, berms, holes in the ground, keylines etc are all tools. When you want to screw a screw you use a screwdriver. If you use a hammer, you're gonna fail.
So instead of daemonising the one tool or another it's better to teach people where each tool can be used.
I've used small swales on contour in my farm and saved myself a yearly flash flood that was swallowing my house. I've used ponds to rehydrate the landscape and I used small scale off contour ditches in order to direct water towards plants that love humidity while saving plants that would die within a day if found next to a puddle.
Each plant has its own requirements and each plant can also be used as a tool. Less generalisations, more humility.
In Tunisia you'll find what you're looking for.
I like the analogy of a window. Just because someone put a window in the roof, left the window open and it leaked water into the house doesn’t mean all windows are bad. Maybe the wrong location or the wrong type of window or maybe even incorrect use of the window.
I use swales with high rainfall. They're very useful on slopes where soil is rather impenetrable. Also if you want water-hungry cultivation eg bananas and taro.... swales are most excellent. Without drainage for excess a swale in a high rainfall area is more than likely a pond. Then they're an issue. I've grown vegetables over entire summer seasons without needing to water once - go swales!
why a pond is an issue ?
@@joxxxyalpharius2008 most likely root rot
@@joxxxyalpharius2008 A swale should not ever become a pond because the mound on the low side of the slope is not compacted so the water will soak. Swales are designed to fill then soak, not remain full. If they remain full they are a canal not a swale.
What about landslide impacts and likelihood
@@rogerramjet1038 thank for your answer
your intro music is about 10x louder than the rest of your show, damn near killed me
Lol, same
Thanks for the warning...turned down the volume just in time.
yes. horrid.
Swales and Keyline are two very different methods, used for two very different outcomes. Swales aren't meant for grass paddocks. Keyline is.
Keyline isn't meant for tree, or perennial production. Swales are.
Richard is correct in that his design wouldn't work near as well, or even at all with swales.
Use the right tool for the right job.
This comment should be pinned. Its not that sealed are bad, or keylines are bad. They are 2 ways to move water for 2 different products!
Swales are good for growing trees, and for water retention in dry and arid climates.
Keylines are good for growing grass, and raising animals, especially on slopes, it looks like.
Thank you I’ve been trying to get many sides of the story. I have a very large patch of land that is quite rugged that I might be able to get in and try some water retention tactics
Yup. I think there should be a mass adoption of Keyline in my part of the Midwest where it is mostly flat, rainfall is generally evenly spread throughout the year, the main enemy is erosion from irresponsible plowing and groundcover practices, and there's no way to get farmers to grow anything other corn and soy without the government ceasing it's insane subsidies. But in the hilly Driftless Area of Wisconsin to my north, swales make a lot of sense for growing tree crops on the steep, naturally forested slopes that you already can't grow corn on economically.
@@TheSpecialJ11 I agree my favorite book at the moment is written by Mark Shepard a fellow Wisconsinite. Water for any farm is the title and can be found on Amazon and in the Acres USA book store.
But Richard has perennials on his farm. Evenly spaced and far from a food forest diversity/chaos. He obviously doesn't think you need a swale (though he seems to have planted them in specially prepared beds). In fact, in the book, he explicitly states that swales aren't worth it (with exception of tropical or very arid regions, and even that: perhaps!).
I think his opinion is more radical than a simple "swales have their place". Which is fine; I just can't imagine keyline subsoiling managing a flood as well as swales. It would be interesting to see if one could join on contour swales with off countour (on ridges) keyline strips. One a food forest (perhaps sparser to aid harvesting), the other for annuals/orchards/grazing.
what i understood from Geoff Lawton, swales are useful to create forests. and it all depends on your rain levels. i still believe it can be useful in dry lands.
Importantly, what can swales do that keyline cannot? Water retention, prevention of erosion, decompacting soil, etc, all of it is possible, but cheaper and more orderly with keyline. Darren Doherty even goes to calculate the greater&cheaper water storage capacity.
Other than flood and fire mitigation, I can see not one thing that a swale can do better (including growing a 'forest', in the form of savannah silvo-agro-pasture).
In Geoff's Greening the Desert project swales have completely reversed the desertification of large areas of land. Both systems are valid.
@@beorntwit711 they refill the aquifer
How is nobody pointing out the importance of starting out with fast growing deep tap root tree's like Morringa on the back side of swales. It's main purpose is creating structure to hold in the hill side and it works pretty well, the green mulch and free wood chips are just bonus aspects to feed your food producing trees later.
I’m in the same climate with similar topography and issues as you Richard. I have compacted clays on undulating land in the boreal forest. Swales have worked just fine for me to capture water and encourage better soil development.
Very good video thank you. I'm increasing how much food I'm growing with an eye to expand each year, which I've done for the last 2 years, and possibly market garden but our ideal would be a smallholding or small farm eventually. Thanks for explaining things so well.
This was excellent! I watched it twice, and shared it with two FB permaculture groups, as well.
Thanks for discussing this topic! I've been wanting to learn more about this subject and haven't seen too many videos on it until this one.
Great contribution. Subbed and will explore more of your work, thank you for sharing. Bill would be completely cool with this. The world misses him.
The real power comes in combining both keyline and swales. On our last property we keylined in the grazing areas and placed swales in the fenced tree corridors which were planted with multiple systems, taller trees for wind breaks and shrubs like Tagasaste for nitrogen fixing and grazing through the fences. The combination increased the productivity of the paddocks and if you cut across the keylines and looked at the soil profile, the increase in organic matter and microbe diversity was dramatic. Rainfall was an average of 18" pa.
This guy is designing pemaculture for early pastures and gardens as the main products. Keyline method might be better.
I am a geologist who is learning permaculture. Imho, swales influence/increase the groundwater recharge surface area. And in conjunction with the food jungle, trees and bushes will raise the groundwater level with their capillary pressure. The more long and big roots growing underground and penetrate the subsoil, the more stable of the land from moving, and the more drought tolerance.
So swale will not be effective if you only plant vegetables and grasses. Doesn't mean that it is useless.
He has rows of trees right there in the video lol
@Miscellaneous Various in his own property. He has designed and managed other properties for many years, tho
@Miscellaneous Various ahh just here to throw shade, gotcha
What about swales for the desert? I listen to Richard, but my context is different. Farming year round and 12” per year rainfall.
@@debnelson8127 do it bro!
This is really interesting. I'm about to have Swales excavated on my modest one acre property.
This video doesn't stop me from what I'm about to do, as it's for a different climate and region.
I need them, as in a tropical arid area (which has been in drought for a few years), they will be essential.
However, getting to see the other circumstances and climates people work with in design is fascinating. Thanks.
So inspired by your screen presence. Thank you for your thoughts and point of view. Go the gardeners.
Swales have been used a lot through history to great effect for regenerative works . The US army Corps of engineers used them throughout the deserts years ago and so has The Australian army engineers in Western Australia. They work . But obviously not everywhere .
As someone that’s just getting into and learning about permaculture this is very interesting because I wondered if there were places where swales aren’t needed and what they looked like.
Cheers for the upload, mate.
I totally agree and permaculture isn't about one size fits all solutions and certain design elements just don't work in certain environments. (which I found out the hard way when I just started out an naievely build a herbspiral and raised beds in the dry Mediterranean)
Why did these techniques not work in your location?
This is a great video! Very insightful! Thanks Richard!
It is really refreshing to hear it. There is a lot of miseducation going around and people still cling to monocultural ways of thinking with one fits all, instead realizing that for each situation there are differents tools.
keep up the good work and all the best.
Thank you! I've been trying to decide plan and understand keylines vs Seames and thank you so much!
Awesome Richard, well explained!
Great video!
Swales work really well when you put them in conjunction with damns.
This has been my thought too. But most of the vids out there on swales tend to focus on erosion control (the 1s I've seen anyway - the 1s that go into depth at any rate). And while I can appreciate that, coming from a drought prone country I look at that and think: wasted potential
Very interesting development of a small farm and the variability of the alternative systems.
Thanks for the info, the organ interlude convinced me subscribing was the right move. I think Nature will take over if it has a better way so putting effort in to change something should be done carefully, it may be futile. It seems the more we observe and work with where we have, the better. Thanks!
I made swales on my farm in France, trees ont the bank are ok, but below the swales I got 10 years old fruit trees orchards rotting roots... be careful of excess water !
Thanks. Good info
So how do you drain that excess water?
Or should there be more water hungry trees on the first row after the swale just to stabilize the soil before fruit trees are planted?
Perhaps in the swale above the fruit forest dig a trench for a swivel pipe (open ended pipe with a rotating 'L' shape end) that diverts the excess away from the forest in times of heavy rain? Do you have a pond lower down it could perhaps run off to?
Yes P A Yeoman nailed it years ago, to bad there are so many that have not clued up on his work especially here in Oz were he came from, great video, nice little intermission with the keyboard player, and I like the idea of a BBQ at the lake....
Excellent!!! Thank you for sharing!!! Can you film more of the team? They seem like such a cool group!!!
Thankyou. At last! a sound explanation..... Any method which allows water to penetrate the subsoil and stay around longer has got to be applauded. Never though about road design..... Can't see that changing thinking at local government buy hey ho one step at a time. Thanks again 😊😊
Aren't swales for concentrating water in arid regions? A swale in an area that can grow grass everywhere is like selling snow cones to Eskimos.
Certainly we should think about water startegies in relation to "how much rain we get each week along the whole year, and the britleness scale. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savory_brittleness_scale or www.managingwholes.com/brittle.htm
Steel Teepost but in summer when there is no snow. A snow cone is pretty good. A swale can capture water and prevent against summer drought. Something that is important for certain trees. Also permaculture is originating in Australia a place that has been in drought for ten years. Permaculture is a system and theory that is based on the observation of your location and adapt the proven thing to your landscape and then experiment. So in summery there are times and places to use Swales and eat snow cones.
Oh sure, shoot down two of my best ideas in one comment. Thanks
Infiltrating water is one aspect, but reducing top soil erosion and nutrients being washed away are other factors to consider, besides creating new types of habitats increasing biodiversity.
swales are great for flood prevention. one of their biggest assets.
The berm is also great in wet areas to start trees so the roots arent waterlogged.
swales can be used to concentrate water into a culvert as well.
they neednt be on contour and can move water to soak aways etc.
So very usefull in certain scenarios in wet regions
thanks for sharing, respect!
I made some tyre tracks in the mud and predicted they would fill with water.
ahaha!
Fantastic stuff Richard. Living here on the west of Scotland where we get 1500+ mm rain a year, I have always read material on swales and thought to myself - that'll just turn out a boggy mess here. I'm going to order your book on payday, I wonder if you have any other recommended reading material for piss-wet-soaking design? Anyway, thanks for the videos - I thoroughly enjoy them and have learnt a great deal from your unique practical implementations. All the best.
Same here in coastal Washington State, upper left corner of the USA. Mainly to prevent destructive runoff, Id guess
I think pretty unnecessary somewhere as wet as the UK. I think somewhere like Scotland, raised beds for drainage and shelter from the wind are your priorities
@@downbntout Yes, in wet Washington on a angle-of-repose geologically young slope, swales would need a *lot* of engineering to stay put.
Swales aren't for every situation. Even so swales are still a very effective tool for water conservation by all means.
Good video, very informative.
👍
I live in Louisiana (very high rainfall) and use swales with no issues. It's definitely not a permanent change because if I didn't muck out the bottom once a month they would fill back up with runoff sediment from neighbors within a year.
swales are temporary, they are there til the ground can absorb all the water... you removing all the "muck" that the water sinks into, just removes the point of the swales ;-) they still function and absorb all the water into the lose debri and sand
It's free soil to move elsewhere I guess.
If i had the land you have, i would use yeomans plow too. I live in the sandy south and utilize flood and drain swales and heavy cover cropping w/ N+ fixers to renew the soil. Love your work as always, thx for the share. Love the organ work lol
See, T. I am not the only one that can not put in swails. I need the rain to pass thew. And I have a least 18+ inches of loom and cay plus sad. I only waters 4 timed last year with a 3 month drought.
Swales can also be used to collect excess water and direct it off the property, or into storage areas where it can be used during dry seasons. The right technique(s) must be selected for each situation - he climate, characteristics of the land, the goals for that property, etc.
Jefferdaughter, what you are talking about are diversion drains. The idea of swales is to slow and sink the water into the landscape. A swale is "on contour" so water shouldn't flow in it. A diversion drain is "on a falling contour" sometimes with a fall of 1:300, so that water will flow in teh direction you want it to. There is a place for both of these, in different places, and sometimes, in the same place!
True, but the spillway of a swale can feed into a pond, rerouting runoff without having to have the "swale" falling off contour as you describe
@@przybyla420 Exactly, and one can put pipes in at desired heights to drain the swale into a pond or anything if needed.
Richard you are someone I would be glad to work for.
Lovely that all these old videos pop up again with the rework you guys are doing and with clear and consistent thumbnails!
Observing this video I am seeing a smart young man with a fast mind. However, when comparing his land management visually compared to Geoff Lawton there is a difference. Swales can be good at the right slight slope... as mentioned by Richard. Unfortunately he washes over it the truth to this. Also, I appreciate the fancy design work in this video but with anyone that has put their heart into land management there is a feeling and intuition you have with your OWN particular land. Every plot of land has its quirks and is differences. Richards opinions seems too strict to allow a wide gamut of land understanding and realization. Land is a creation and not a document. Wishing everyone luck with their land and dreams of what they seek to create. -S
Richard has a tendency to talk about what he knows works, and really does limit chat on practises he's not experienced in. Keyline works for him, in his environment.
I've never heard of this key-line business, before. I think it's a ditch that brings water to the ridge line, and to get better air and water penetration in and around the trench.
Very little of what works for Sweden is going to make sense for most of the Rocky-Mountain West and inland NorthWest. But it's applicable to coastal Washington, Oregon and British Columbia, as well as New England and Nova Scotia. Things like building a house inside a greenhouse make sense in Sweden and Norway, but not so much in the American West, which is where I'm most interested.
I think the guy in this video gets water we would kill for, and just wants to get more of it to the ridge-lines, which would otherwise shed water. I think he's also trying to condition his soil and build deeper root systems.
@@harrymills2770 question to ask in arid climate is: how much water can you store per dollar spent on earthworks with keyline vs swales (or some combination, of course). My money is on keyline, especially if you include water storage dams (though plow lines alone should store more water underground than a costlier swale). If you really want to squeeze more benefit, put a pump and inject biochar into the plowlines, for extra water retention and slow release fertilizer (SFR).
@@beorntwit711 Can you show me some examples of where you have implemented this?
You sir are what, 35 years old and have the knowledge as a retired man at 75.
You're brilliant and with out a doubt a role model and people should really follow your lead so to speak.
If only I could take in everything he teaches. Wow! Love this guy.
You don't use a hammer and chisel to make a car engine, Swales are simply a tool of design, First rule of permaculture is observation, At this point one would know whether that is a tool to be utilized or not .... Great clip mate
Rehydrate landscape is ALWAYS good.
Why do you say RE hydrate?
The (most) landscape is all ready naturally hydrated, by the rains.
And swales , beside cost, are permannet structures that limit movemment on the land...sometimes they creat more problems then solutions.
There is a obssession with "rehydration" " regenerating"... Most soils on the planet are enough hydrated , have good structure and fertility. Many times people are wasting unnecessary time and money that could be used to...simply grow stuff directly...
Awesome stuff!
After relocating to a new region, my first rainy season brought an usual amount of floods. The property was under water for nearly a month and many plants and trees died. During the dry season the upland was bare, even weeds wouldn’t grow. I dug out swales according to the natural contour of the land. No more flooding and there is now greenery in places where there was only dust before.
What works for you may not work for someone else. Keep an open mind.
Richard have you thought of altering the keyline pattern slightly for that particularly boggy area?
If you increased the fall of the pattern there and on the hill above to the far ridge on the next pass it might limit the issue.
Earthworks which check and slow surface water flow to promote infiltration - you're walking in a field of swales according to that definition Richard. We do the same with bed shapers for tree rows. Whether they are 0% grade or 2% grade makes little difference - they still perform the essential function of a swale.
awesome. thank you very much.
It's always difficult to tell new immigrants from a dry region in this case Southern Lebanon that water is not your friend. Southern New Jersey is probably as wet as your land but it has serious lack of soil problems. In that it doesn't have any. MOst of the Southern half of the State is flat as a pancake, with 2 inches of top soil and then sand. I finally covered my back yard in Black Plastic for the winter and the worms thanked me by giving me 24 inches of top soil. That cured most of my water problems.
Water is your problem? Seriously?
Thank you! Awesome video
Swales are great in areas that lack organic matter / mulch. They collect and build up their own mulch. Seems like one of the best things for re-greening the deserts or nursing topsoil back in areas where good soil has become depleted. Also they would stop potential top soil being washed away in to rivers on land that has no protection from this. a good example where swales would have been great was in UAE when they were experimenting with (the nasty cloud seeding). They created tonnes of rain but had nothing put in place to hold it there so there were flash floods everywhere and now they are worst off than they were to begin with.
Regarding Swale vs Key Line:...……..I've run a Single furrow with a Turning plow over 40 acres. Furrows are 10 to 20 feet apart and follow the contour of an 8% to 17 % grade. No more water runs off quickly. And I can still drive in Any direction, up or down hill at any angle, only mildly bumpy.
Did you use a single point plow,single pass?
The reason I ask is I used a single bottom made several passes and then removed the dirt with a fel ,I now have to be careful where I drive.
My swales are enough to high center my tractor.
I'm looking for resources for doing keyline design in an existing forest. Most of what I've found is for areas that begin as mainly grassy so it's not doable for us. We've got fairly dense conifer/evergreen coverage but we're also in a wildfire area. Our property is on a hillside near the bottom of a small valley. The entire property averages about a 45 degree slope. Swales, I know, won't work and would be too labor intensive to put in as there's no way we're getting equipment up and down the hills. For now we've been moving any wood on the ground into berms across the hillside - the wild birds have LOVED this as have the fungi. I'd love to incorporate keyline to add multiple small ponds throughout the property (8 acres) so we've got water in most of the planned pasture areas or at least more water stored in the ground to help mitigate the fire danger. Whatever we implement on our smaller property, we'll be helping our elderly neighbor with 35 acres implement.
We average 40 inches of rain a year, mostly in the winter/spring months. This year we got closer to 50 + inches.
Any input on if swales work in the Pacific Northwest? We have plenty of rain (fall, winter, spring) but still have a 3-4 month summer drought. Does "storing water in the soil" work here, with heavy clay subsoil? Obviously you can soak up water in topsoil - but can I concentrate rainfall (or increase infiltration) and make a plume 20 feet deep under the topsoil in my orchard? If so, it seems like it would happen naturally - it's not like there is a lot of runoff... Not enough water to penetrate that deep? Why would anyone ever build a pond if it's possible to selectively saturate patches to hold water for years? I need to take a hydrology course ha.
There are situations where I believe swales dug on contours are beneficial, although I agree that keyline infiltration is likely the better of the two options for most projects. I am currently working with a piece of land that had large swales excavated on contour where clay was in the sub-soil layer and was layered on top of the rich topsoil, reducing the infiltration on the berms where there are fruit trees planted. This site was originally having flooding issues, but I believe that having well planned rain gardens while using keyline plantings would have been more beneficial, with less land disturbance, and much more cost effective
Just curious, how does key line(?) Plowing or swales compare to what was done in Maccu Piccu
I usually cook swales with some onion and garlic and finish under some baby arugula.. oh and with some finely grated parmigiano regiano and a sweet honey mustard dressing.. tasty.. key lime pie is good too.. always have key lime pie with friends.. each one teach one and grow on brothers!
Wonderful!!
So, what is keyline design? I got the part about aerating the ground, but it looks like you contoured your land too.
Thank you for this info! I'd like to use something like this with sheep, maybe using the trees as fence posts.....
20 years to build a fence
thats what i was thinking as well, milk mobiles!
In which they would end up ringbarked
Hi Richard Perkins
I heard these 2 terms and confused about them. Please explain similarities & differences between them: swales (as often thrown about in permaculture) & bioswales. What I have to work with is ~7200 sq ft urban plot, practically flat. So which of these 2 would suit best for me? Are swales on contour (so no elev changes) but bioswales CAN change elev, IDK? Hope u can clear up my confusion & help me select 1. Also if any walking paths, those should be the higher elements (as in elev) to other surrounding design elements? THANKS
Good information..
I live in Hawaii swales you be building them for ever you never have any crops I have done every method available and best way is to mimic nature were ever you are in nature were I live things are staked or layered so I farm the same way i grow food on top of food this system works wonderful here
Maybe your water pooling issue after using the plough could be because you didn't do it in depth increments i.e. 75mm, 150-225mm then 500mm. Keyline is for the broader landscape as you said, swales are predominately for trees/large shrubs and as Danny Situmorang has said below, it raises groundwater and over approx 7 years, increases water holding capacity.
Lots of people saying 'where appropriate' but no clear lists to choose between keyline and swales.
From what the video says: he likes keylines better because they seem cheaper, easier, more geometric (helps mechanization), and are wonderful for silvipasture.
Water retention is basically the same (volume of decompaction that keyline plowing creates is similar per acre).
I'm not sure but I figure Zaytuna farms is a lot less commercially oriented, so the lack of predictability for mechanization doesn't bother Geoff).
I'd always go for swales with keyline plowing in between. I just can't imagine keyline plowing having the same severe flooding resilience.
Do these/ keyline swales (may i call them that?) require much maintenance? By the sounds, swales may not work in very dry environments or, conversely, in very wet (causing landslides). Do I have that right? I have just started learning...
To me a more economical use of resources in most climates (not realistic in high rainfall tropical areas perhaps) is to have the rain infiltrate the soil where it lands. Yomens, swales and all other forms of earthworks automatically assume water is to move across the landscape. To my thinking the conditions you might consider aiming for is to have soil that is capable of infiltration at a rate greater than your heaviest downpour. This way streams etc are still replenished but only by soakage and not by surface runoff. Remember not everyone can afford a tractor and plough and a lot of available land is in no way suitable for ploughing due to rocks etc. Just ask Joel Salatin how well a Yomens would have handled his land before he made it into the beautiful rich pastures he has now. From memory, I think it is Gabe Brown that has soil that can handle over an inch of rain per hour with no runnoff, all done with moving very high density of mob grazed cattle, sometimes multiple times per day (automatic gates)
Anyway if it fits your holistic context then that's all that really matters, just wanted to give a view from a different paradigm.
Gabe Brown's farm, as of 2013, has soil that can infiltrate over 15 inches of rain per hour, according to his TedX Talk: ua-cam.com/video/QfTZ0rnowcc/v-deo.html
Greg Judy said the same thing.
He had implemented a swale on one of his farm,made a mess,the landowner was yoset about it and he was discussing having it filled in at a 10 k loss.
He said buy your herd incorporate mob grazing and watch the land change
I think that's assuming your property is fairly flat. If it's on a hill then you wanna slow that runoff down
What?!
If it doesn't have a herb spiral, a mandala garden, a hügelculture bed, a swale and a food forest how can it be permaculture!?!?! ;D lol ..Nicely done Richard. Cookie cutter permaculture doesn't benefit anyone, good to hear you talking about the context and considerations.
Dammit, you mean mine isn't permaculture either? No herb spiral here, no hügels, no swales. Have I been doing it wrong for 15 years?
nice
Personally I can never see the point of a herb spiral. I thought the whole point was to scatter your herbs around to potentiate the growth of your other plants thru companion planting etc not isolating them to 1 spot
@@susie9893 the rocks help keep the herbs warm and well drained coz the are meditaranean plants.
I have never seen any video of Geoff Lawtons where he said swales were the only way to go, Do your research, observe your property and pick what best for your location.
Hmmm... I'm currently considering how to capture and sink water into my urban backyard which has just a bit of slope. I don't want to divert the water anywhere, I want it to sink straight in so I'm thinking of sort of borrowing from both by just working my broadfork through along a few contour lines. So no digging, no ditches, no turning the soil, so minimal soil disruption, but reduced compaction and improved water infiltration in key areas, and keeping that water in my yard rather than letting it run off into my neighbor's lawn.
swales are for areas where rainfall is seasonally concentrated and without swales runs off the land and is lost. keylines are for moving water from where it concentrates over to the ridges to even the water out. there is no reason not to do both if you are on a hillside with heavy seasonal rain concentrated into one season of the year with the rest remaining arid. many places are too damp year round to need water management
Nyet! Swales should have their sides and bottoms deep tilled and planted with carefully selected plants such as perennial switchgrass planted together with tillage radish that will drill right into the soil and make it porous like a sponge while the perennial switchgrass will use their root fibers to keep the porous structure intact once the tillage radish has done it's job and has bolted. This is just one example of many. The purpose is to encourage water infiltration into the soil and allow soil permeatation by the water to flow through it by gravity to recharge the underground aquifers.
So a Key Line works just like a swale (contour plowing creates a water barrier that stops the flow and increases infiltration...it's not the size but how you use it) but isn't above ground so you can create grass land rather than a food forest. It's only mysterious and hard to understand because you want to make it that way to sound smart.
The attitude presented in the blurb description underneath the video is much more balanced, i.e. there are various applications where swales make a lot of sense. If you were to just watch the video, the take-home message is basically "swales are more trouble than they're worth" and that you have an "either or" choice when it comes to swales or keyline - both of which is nonsense. Swales don't make sense in a soggy climate, obviously - most swale enthusiasts would already have agreed with you without the ten-minute whinge!
Bloody oath it's a technique that works best in more arid climates. At least for me that was like the first thing I learnt about Swales.
Looks great. if you have a tractor and a keyline plow.
I found this: "The Carolina Permaculture Farm" while searching for the Permaculture Farm, that has a similar landscape as yours and was wondering if it is close to your place?
soil compacted, used heavy equipment to loosen, gets standing water...
wow good interesting info. i love your accent too. where are you from?
Great info. First time I've heard of the keyline design.
Nice organ jammin.
What are the containers, along the wall, (11:41 - 11:47)? Is that something you built yourselves or can it be purchased?
Thanx.
Have you done anything around a desert dry wash? Thanks
Gabions, essentially you build a heavy duty retaining wall and the desert water erosion back fills it for you, creating a terrace on the upslope. Then you ideally build another gabion further upslope of the first, on this terrace.
10:23 "the egg-mobiles..." I thought this was a cute reference to chickens, before realizing it wasn't... but it should be. 😂
How wide does the contour have to be?
This should be a core component of any Northern climate PDC curriculum.
We purchased 30 acres last year which has primarily been used for hey fields. Now that our home is settled we are looking to setup out farm. I have a desire to have most everything planned and figured out before we begin so as to work the land in the best and most efficient way possible. How can I find out more about keyline and permaculture landscape design for our piece of land? We are located in NE Oklahoma USA.
Elissa hope in your journey you have managed to check out Alan Savory's book, "Holistic Management" . An excellent overview of planning and utilizing multi-species biodiversity. Congrats on your progress so far.
Warren Loone I have not read this book. So I will find a copy and enjoy it for my winter reading this year. Thank you! We have made some improvements mostly with our animals and proper rotational grazing methods and it’s amazing the results we’ve seen in just a couple active years of this. Thanks again!
Whats the software being used? Any suggestions on software for PC design?
Doesn't the use of swales depend on soil/ dirt composition? I know my father 60 years ago treated his new farm on valusa soil much differently on his last farm which was on sandy meridian soil.
What was that book you showed us at 1:55 ?
Respect from Africa 🇿🇦
I am a little confused. I thought the first time I read about swales was in Water For Every Farm: Using the Keyline Plan" but you seem to be saying "I don't use swales, I use keyline" as though swales are not a part of keyline. I completely agree that swales should only be used where the climate and the geology are suitable, otherwise you do get the landslides you mentioned.
It seems that the difference is that swales are on contour and water sits evenly across the landscape and slowly soaks in whereas keyline is slightly off contour and moves water towards ridges or, as Richard says, keeps what falls there for as long as possible (discourages it from falling down into the gullies). Keyline plowing and dams and ponds control the water in specific ways.
I think the difference is climate. Swales are more effective in deserts where the water isnt being utilized at all. Your climate is about controlling the massive amount of water and keeping it from washing thr top off.
🇦🇺🇦🇺I was hoping to buy a few copies of yr books for us and friends. Yet at $118 AUS plus delivery makes this too expensive. Yr digital copies at $88 AUS is also too much esp given we can’t use digital on our farm. Can we buy via another su-plier whose print costs are paperback and or more affordable??
Name of the book?
Ben Falk writes in his book about swales and totally endorse them as one of the main reasons for soil restoration. Do you think he would have had the same results by only using the keyline plow?
Good question. I can't predict the results in that alternate scenario, but I can say that Ben Falk's hillside is quite a bit steeper than Richard Perkins', and therefore a very different situation. A method that is applied in one place should probably not be applied or endorsed universally. Rather than a rulebook telling people what to do, I see permaculture as a philosophy that encourages us to perceive nature more clearly, and then come up with a unique plan of action based on our own personal goals, resources, and surroundings.
Alexandergardsedh I was thinking of him too! I guess he has longer drought periods. Where I live in south western Norway we got rain all the time, and are scheduled to get 15-20% more before 2100, so swales would be very inapropriate here.
Carbon/topsoil holds a lot more moisture than dirt anyway, so that will be MY focus for the years to come.
The Swale Vs Keyline controversy has raged for some time. Essentially they are both functional systems depending on the required outcome.
I define the separation as between human benefit and the benefit of nature as a whole.
Essentially keyline diversion, irrigation and plow systems are designed to spread water uniformly throughout the landscape. This is slightly ironically in a Permaculture context as its a "Mono-culture" or a mono distribution of water. Great for the production of human-centric goods, don't get me wrong it does benefit nature, but only the nature that fits within the water distribution we have created.
Whereas Swales, although argued otherwise do not create a uniform distribution of water in the landscape. They are particularly useful in places with intense rainfall, like the tropics for capturing large quantities of water in a landscape. This water due to its uneven distribution creates areas with an excess of water which makes conventional farming practices difficult. But this uneven distribution also creates a wider diversity of ecosystems and invites a wider diversity of "nature".
Don't be put off by the good decisions made not to use swales at Ridgeway. Swales (also largely advocated by Yeomans, ) are excellent in the right situation, having used them often over 30 years in specific sites. Horses for courses
Hi, I am planning to purchase a 70 acres land which is in floatplane and a natural creek goes through by one side of the land. I am planning to work with this plan by digging few large pounds, together 10-12 acres by 10 feet deep, to capture water when floating, water management. I am planning to use this land as my homestead property and raise animals and grow vegetables and trees. I am also planning to raise fish. I am planning to distribute the dirt that I would be digging from the pounds, and grow pasture on them. I am thinking with this action I would be able to convert a floatplane property to a pasture with few large lakes. Am I in a right track?
Do you have any other suggestion on how to convert a floatplane land to a workable one?
You mean floodplain. That can be really rich land, isn't it fairly dry in the summer? Use seasonal crops to take advantage of this, put tree on the higher spots that you make, pears can take wetter conditions than apples and stone fruit really don't like their feet wet, in general.
I want to buy the book. What is the Titel?
I want your book.
yeah, no swales where I am at, rock walls and lines are good though, but labor intensive.
The war between keylines n swales is real...😂
Can you give me the author/s, name of the book and isbn? I have read P.A.Yeomans, Bill Mollison and Alan Savoury. My uncle bought pa Yeomans first farm where he developed his ideas, farmed it for 10 years then bought a bigger farm about 300 km away and converted that to Keyline.
Swales are primarily tree growing systems, especially in arid landscapes where you need to concentrate limited rainfall. Also for capturing hard surface runoff.
Anyways, great video. Swales and keyline design both have their place
I'd be inyerested in the correct placement of dirt roads