weird, i just clicked on this video because i love New England history, Then my town pops up for the restoration, and I realize exactly where you are and what field. love to see it.
I’ve been asking this question to my self for 10+ years and I can never get the internet to reveal the answers. Thank the UA-cam algorithm. Thank you for your wealth of knowledge!!!
My pleasure! I will be doing more detailed work on the specific clearances and related topics in the future. Thanks for your generous praise and encouragement!
Very good video. At the end of my driveway, on the town road is a CCC built catch basin. The CCC did a great job on cleaning up after the Hurricane of 38. My land is very rocky and was used for grazing and firewood from the mid1700s until I bought it in 1986. I had assumed that it was cows grazing. Good Luck, Rick
Very interesting!! Dairy never went away but I would bet anything that there were some Merinos too!! I'll be doing more detailed focused vids on each of the phases of clearance this year!
Growing up in 1970s Eastern MA the woods behind my parents’ home were filled with miles of stone walls. It was a great realization to me then that at one point most of the trees had been cut down and then had grown back. I had an anniversary book for my town’s 250th anniversary in the late 70s that had photos of the town at its 200th anniversary in the 1920s, that showed a completely different landscape than the one I was growing up in.
It's much the same out here. You see old photos and barely recognize the site because...there are FEW trees and they are much smaller. West Springfield's Old White Church used to be visible from all over the lower Pioneer Valley. Good luck seeing it now...
My dad born 1920 often spoke of his CCC experience. He made the best of his situation - formed friendships and good memories. I have fond memories of visiting Kent Falls Connecticut with him. I still recall walking many CCC areas and listening to his experiences. Talk about a full life. He later sailed the Oceans as US Navy reserve on the USS Delta a repair ship as a machinist repairing different types of craft during WW2 and then later the Korean War.
What a time in must have been! It's weird that so few monuments to what they did exist in the awesome places they created... legacies for us all. I wish we'd do it again...the way they did ...now, with those in need of skills...young people who want a wage AND to serve!
@@FishingHistoricPlaces there are some monuments per se, but most exist only in the actual projects. That said I have noticed actual monuments being dedicated to the ccc boys dedicated recently.
@@walterhassard8257 I've seen some kiosks around, and markers citing the CCCs help creating particular State Forests. Do you mean these or an actual stone memorial?
Everyone agrees that it makes the most sense to put solar in already developed sites. There are two reasons it is slow to start in the US. First, it is significantly more expensive than cutting down a new growth forest, so if you don't want forests cut down, you can't just leave it to the market, and no matter how you slice it, the resulting electricity will be somewhat more expensive. It is hard to get everyone (rate payers, power companies and their shareholders, legislators, tax payers) on the same page to make that decision, but it could be done. Second, particularly regarding industrial rooftop solar, is the fact that many of these properties are leased, so there's a basic problem in figuring out who makes the long term capital investment in rooftop solar, if the utility customer (the occupant) does not own the building, which may also already be 10 years away from a complete roof replacement or whose projected lifespan (disposable construction) may not extend to the projected life of the solar array on its roof.
Around 1980, an "old timer" in the catskill mountains told me that he had seen this cycle in his lifetime. When he was young, land that had been farmed many years before he was born, was wooded again. As a child, he saw the land cleared again for farming, and then again start to become woods as the end of the era of the small family farm happened during the 1960s and 1970s, and the forrest started to reclaim the land. Now 40+ years later, I see many places that were open fields at that time, which are dense woodlands now.
I've had similar conversations and seen for myself the speed that out forests reginerate.There was an old sawdust pile where a lumber outfit has set up a portable saw, complete with chips, slabs, the whole thing. I would pass it walking into a place I hunted and originally the pile was over 20 feet high. After a bad year in the area, I went elsewhere for five years and when I came back, the sawdust pile was barely a hump and trees were sprouting everywhere. Today it's a young forest... mostly birch and maple. A crazy transformation in thirty years.
There is long stretch of road in Maine where I live that used to be fields as far as the eye could see. The road itself is called "Plains Road" presumably for that very reason. Today, you would not recognize it. Just in the past 30 years, eastern white pine, and a mixture of hardwood trees, maple, ash, etc. have taken over those fields and you can no longer see the profile of Mt. Washington in the distance. If you were to walk the acreage away from that road, you would find many stone walls that delineated the farmers fields.
paulfarley9365 yes, that's the way it is in ny too. A walk through the woods requires you to cross many walls, what were walls or just piles of stone. I guess the land is just waiting for the next cycle to be reclaimed for farming.
Yes, why would we think humans are any different then the rest of nature? The ebb and flow of life never stops...Do trees re-incarnate? I've done much fishing-hunting-canoing in these NE lands since the 60's...There's magic out there people...For me this is undeniable.
I LOVE People's State Forest ( it's one of my favorite mushroom hunting areas) and the Farmington River is a jewel!! I'm glad I could help with your understanding of our awesome area...and have done and will continue to do a video per week on our Southern New England History and Natural History as well as a daily short and a Fishing Related longer video. I hope you explore my channel a little and ...thanks for watching!!
You're a busy man! Thanks for the wonderful video, and a huge thanks for not ruining it with crappy background music. I don't know why some people feel compelled to add annoying background music throughout their videos.
@@savage22bolt32 Ha!! Thanks...and yes...I hate it myself! And it's weird music. Weird trend ... I like to hear the birds and the world around...but sometimes music can cover audio imperfections...
our mountain in vermont, we used to use old cars/trucks and concrete pads that are in the middle of the forest as landmarks. "seen a big deer over by the buick"
Heyyy this is the first time I've EVER seen Changes in the Land referenced in a UA-cam video! Heartening to see there are people doing the good work of spreading the word with the best sources we have.
I shared another video from a few months ago where it discuss Cronin a little further. His work was GROUNDBREAKING and still not appreciated by the general public. Thanks for watching and sharing your encouraging comments. Creating these videos can be a lonely affair!
It truly does! As a Forester friend of mine says ...the thing about our Eastern Woodlands is...They WANT to grow. Look at any vacant lot, median strip, shut down mall or abandoned property....BOOM ... Sumac -Birches-Maples-White Pines....saplings all ...but not for long if left alone! Thanks for watching!!
Just found your channel. I liked this video and subscribed. You’ve got a new subscriber from upstate New York. Ancestors on my mom’s side were early pioneer settlers of New England, Long Island, and the Hudson Valley. Interesting content here. Keep up the good work.
Thanks. I get out your way quite a bit every year so expect some content you might be very familiar with. I have licenses to fish in NY, MA and CT and incorporate a fishing/history vid and a walk around history vid weekly as well as a short per day. Always looking into history and natural history corners and niches. Thanks for watching and hope you enjoy!
Great point about the native peoples doing plenty of their own forest management well before Europeans arrived. Some people have this rosy picture in their head that the natives left everything “wild” which was not the case at all. The tribes encouraged mast producing trees which meant better hunting grounds for them. This was a pretty good rundown of the last 400 or so years. Keep ‘em coming. I’m a central Connecticut native myself.
Thanks and you bet I will. It's funny that we've had their use of fire in our historical record for so long but never want to call it what it was, Forest Management! That said, as you pointed out, there are so many preconceived notions of who the Native People were (basically coming down to everything that a particular generation of Americans wish they were) that even talking about the period can be asking for trouble...but that's what makes it fun I guess!! Thanks again!
Love learning about the lesser-known history of my home state. Everybody knows the “important” stuff like the Revolutionary War and the founding of the country, etc., but I am just so interested in the little details of life. The land, the nature, the common people. You can see the history in the land!
Thank you very much! There will be more on this topic for sure! It's a sneaky clearance and done to smiles from many ....and often where I am, set back from the road so as to be unnoticed...which I feel like, deserves to be noticed. Thanks for watching and adding to the conversation!
This is great thank you. I wish I could take you to Taunton, Ma and show you where we used to ride our dirt bikes in a very large set of woods. In there we ride by old foundations and a random stone tunnel type of channel through the ground
I've actually gotta get out there this summer sometime for some filming I'm doing on King Philips War... Probably do something with the Dighton Rock also. You're in an area with tremendous early history...and mystery!!
Great story. If memory serves me correctly, the CCC planted many trees. Their work is still very evident in many places, very visible by the perfectly aligned rows of trees in what is now forest.
Learned something, thank you, grew up in Chicopee and I remember the sections of woods here, long gone😢, retiring to Maine in a couple yrs to go back to the woods.
Chicopee is interesting because much of its Western portion has all that yellow sand ...right down to 391 and through memorial drive....which is dust from glacial lake Hitchcock's sediment that blew East over the years after the lake bed was exposed. I've gotta do a video on that post glacial fun sometime! Thanks for watching.
I grew up in No. Cambridge. I thought Arlington Heights was the woods. I knew they cut down a shit load for the Civil War. You have knowledge and a love of New England. Nothing is more beautiful than the Springtime in New England. I used to live on the Vineyard. The stone walls up island are magical. I liked this a lot. Thank You
Thanks very much. I make a short per day and two videos a week with one focused on Fishing+History/Natural History. I hope you enjoy and continue to let me know what you think. I'm having fun doing this but it's great to know others are liking it!! Thanks again!
My father grew up in Arlington in the 1940s It’s surprising today to consider it, S it’s so built up, but he said as a kid there were still some farms operating in the town, and to go just a bit further West to towns like Burlington or Bedford, it was all rural back then.
Thank you very much and right back at you from WS where I grew up and teach and SWCK where I live. I stumble around fishing and investigating our History and Natural History making videos along the way as ideas hit me. Please enjoy and let me know if I'm missing something that screams...We Need a Video on that...to you!! Thanks again!
@@FishingHistoricPlaces I can’t wait to watch through your videos, its great to stumble upon local content creators. Especially on this topic. I’ll comment if anything speaks to me!
My pleasure. I hope you enjoy some of my others. There is history or natural history in all of them though some involve a little fishing too. Thanks for watching!
I have a couple acres of my 6.4 acres in central MA that was never cleared of stone. It's in the same state it was 10,000 years ago. Rocks everywhere!! It's a geology class field trip. On my 31 acre property in NH I have a huge erratic the size of a small house that's split right down the middle.
There are a few areas I've found like that, but remember that some farmers believed that stones were actually good fertilizer...and planted around them. I've read that it was a Celtic tradition but I'm not certain of the origin. I've got some stuff coming soon on Glacial Erratics and Boulder Trains...which have generated some serious misapprehension as people got back into our local forests during the COVID. I look forward to your comments! Thanks for watching and engaging in the conversation!!
@@FishingHistoricPlaces Very interesting! The difference in soil one state away is shocking. On my 2nd property in NH I can dig a three foot deep hole no problem. On my property in central MA I can't dig two inches without hitting a rock. It's crazy!
Thanks! There's many similar on my channel with a lot more coming. I basically stumble around the Northeast doing History and Natural History shorts and video....with some fishing too. I hope you continue to enjoy and comment!
Thanks for reaching out with kind words! I'm trying to make a content driven channel without the reliance on over editing I see on many. I still have an attention span, as you do...so I can watch somebody just walking around talking history. Thanks again!
Truly interesting! I've lived in central Ma. My whole life, I'm not we'll read but always tried to learn about the forest and walls etc. I'm in the heart of Nipmuc lands and spend a lot of time in the woods. The walls, old cellar holes and large old growth trees( or at least ones way bigger than others) always have caught my eye. Usually you will see one or 2 very large trees near a wall corner with no big trees near it and wondered if it was left on purpose for a property marker when others around it were cut out of necessity? My grandfather came down from New Brunswick in the early part of 1900's and have been to the land up country and saw the old foundation hole now with trees growing up through. Great video! I have subscribed.
The corner large trees or big boulders on the corners of walls were often part of a property surveying system we used in New England called Meets and Bounds....whereby you wrote up a deed...from the big rock on hill thirty rods North to the pond and then Southwest to the Willow thicket. Often you just get shade trees left in a wall, or, trees getting a chance to sprout in the soils between the rocks! Thanks for watching...I'm getting out your way this summer for some footage and videos so expect to see places you recognize soon!
Great to hear, I'm actually right on the edge of Douglas State forest and spent many times hiking in the Blackstone valley. There are a lot of interesting things out here in the local woods to explore! Looking forward to more of your videos!!
@@radiodead745 that's a gorgeous and very underappreciated area ...like so much of South,-Central Massachusetts. Everybody swarms Quabbin and the Berkshires overlooking so many other awesome areas...
I'm not saying I've always known this stuff .. and has alor of ... misapprehensions myself! I've given a general picture in this video. There will be more specific stuff coming with a regional flare! Thanks for watching.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video! Very thorough. I see a threat to the forests that you didn't mention, invasive insects. diseases, development and plant species... Where I am in Southern New England we are losing a lot of trees. First Gypsy Moths killing Oaks and now the Emerald Ash borer killing Ash trees. Not to mention a nematode killing the beech trees. Development is also an issue, they clear cut and build. Most solar around here is on former farm land that was already cleared.
Thank you sir!! You have predicted a future video! I didn't want to include invasives in this video as they rarely destroyed an entire forest (except for the Chestnut blight in Kentucky and Tennessee) and their were just so many rabbit holes to go down. One will be out by summers end featuring the Columbian Exchange in all of its invasive glory...from over harvesting of various forest products through nematodes, lantern flies and bittersweet...it might even have to be two parts! Not a good story to tell...but it appears that despite these threats, the forest will survive, evolve, metamorphosize for years to come... maybe long after we are gone!
My pleasure! More to come on our Woodlands and several already up in the Field Trip folder. I also do a short a day on history and natural history! Thanks for watching!
In north east Pennsylvania the forest was clear cut for building new Amsterdam and clear cut to build the D&H canal and clear cut for the railroad, there’s plenty of out of place stone walls and foundations left from past endeavors. There’s foundations of houses that predate historic deeds from the early 1800s that say there’s no building on the property.
Good discussion and the reference to Wm Cronin leads to some original sources. A lot of more recent research at Brown U. h has been done on palynology from sediment cores taken from in NE ponds and bogs which trace the development and evolution of forests after deglaciation (12,000 - 15,000 BP). Some mention of deforestation of southern NE from cutting trees for iron making should be included. While these iron furnaces tended to be close to their ore sources and not widespread beyond those locales, their effects were substantial. In some Connecticut valleys the hills were harvested for hardwoods to make charcoal several times, as the size of the tree for this purpose was not aprimary concern. Thus a period of 20-30 years was sufficient for this resource to regenerate.
As I strolled around making the video...I intended to talk about the Big Iron and Iron foundation and the Lime and Glass making Kilns that also played a part in the early forest removals...as you point out. I forgot. Years of teaching softening my brain...but on the bright side...I plan on another such walk around video exploring some of the Kilns, Mines and Quarries which will let me circle back!! Thanks for the add, your kind words, and watching. Hope to hear from you again!
My pleasure. I hope you enjoy some of my other videos. I will be doing a more detailed look at the three forest clearances as well as some individual tree profiles this season. Thanks for commenting.
I wonder what it was like when there were chestnut trees in the mix. There's one near me that grows a shoot, 20'-30' and then dies from the blight. Next spring another shoot will start the cycle.
Chestnut in some places would have made up a substantial portion of the forest, I've heard as much as 60 percent in Eastern Kentucky and Tennessee! Imagine the problem their husks would have caused the Native People. Imagine stepping on one with Moccasins? I honestly feel like the removal of these husks was one of their reasons for consistently burning the forest floor.
I never thaught about there being multiple clear cutting,i thought virgin forest just lasted longer in more isolated places,and they were busy clear cutting till like the mid 1800, then timber management and conservation practices started first couple decades if 1900, interesting concept enjoyed the vid keep up the good work 👍
My video is generally specific to Southern and Central New England. Maine and the North have their own story but I was like you... astonished when I learned the true story of our portion of the Eastern Woodlands!
I grew up along the coast of Massachusetts. There was and old trestle and smaller pilings that was used to support a fuel line used by the United States Navy at one time.
I’ve seen photos of east coast states from the late 1800’s and there are very few trees from Georgia to Main because they clear cut the wood to farm, cook, build houses, and ships. There are photos at the town hall here that show the town in 1890’s, almost no trees. Now totally covered with trees.
It's hard to recognize our own communities when we see photos only 100 years old as you have stated ...and yet people have a different historical understanding that they prefer to nostalgically enshrine...
It wasn't just in New England, it happened everywhere. The forested areas where I'm from in Florida have been harvested several times. There's hardly any old growth forests left
Lot of our stone walls are mostly sunk into the ground now. All young forest mostly new on the mountains. Only in tough going wet ground can you find old trees that they could not get to easy! Seen old photos that show areas where there were no trees at all! Few and far between of these old photos! Remember my folks telling me that you could see way down the road, in the 50s as I grew up the land and trees were young trees in that area! Over time these young trees became a forest and now there are houses all through where I use to play in the woods! Makes me sick to see the trees all gone again!
Agreed! I've heard people say that their parents remember our Northeast Forest looking like Ireland it has so few trees...and of course, the stone walls! Thanks for watching and joining the conversation!
I had heard of the Merino Wool craze... And indeed the walls are everywhere here in central MA, and that the natives burned the forests down. But I didn't know about the other clearances. Some land trusts are making a pointed effort to keep and maintain meadow biomes long term in New England.
There are several publicly managed sites in Western Massachusetts that are working on field restoration. Merino Mania was a fairly dramatic, intensive and sudden clearance while the other two were much slower. I'm going to do a specific video on each clearance this year with much more detail. Hope you enjoy!
Thanks very much. I'm basically stumbling around making videos of what I find interesting on a moment by moment basis! I post a short every day and two longer videos every week. Please enjoy!
Great question. Standards like Cronin and Wessels and a large variety of primary sources from Pynchon through Captivity Narratives and accounts of King Philips War. I've been working in Colonial and Native Peoples History for many years and exploring the Early National and 19th Century along the way. I'll put up a reasonable bibliography if you're interested. UA-cam has some great Tom Wessels videos and their are others. Natural History, Ecology and Conservation are really sidelined in our Public Schools and yet interest in these topics is exploding. Before I retire I need to create a course at my High School. Thanks for watching!
@@FishingHistoricPlaces excellent thank you. My family is only the second owners of our property since the land was purchased from native folks and established as a town & subdivided in the late 1700s. I know the original family cleared it for livestock and we've essentially cleared it once as well. Outside of that, I'm always fascinated by the historical usage & commerce of an area I hold dear.
@@VENZUL0 as Maines early history overlaps Massachusetts you'll find descriptions of the AT-CONTACT land from some of the early charter holders like Gorges or Winthrop. Sagadahoc (original Maine Colony)is really as old as Jamestown but , didn't last. Depends on where you are... great history up there!
The statistic usually cited here in Vermont is that the state is now 80% forested and 20% clear. In the early/mid 1800s those numbers were reversed. As many commenters have mentioned, a good indication of this are the stone walls that crisscross the land (in the area where I live in the southern part of the state sheep grazing was very common). A few years back, our County Forester led a wonderful tour of the “big trees” in the county. For folks like me, who knew very little about such things, the most surprising fact was that virtually none of even the hugest trees were more than 100-120 years old.
I have been amazed by the same observations here in Western Massachusetts. We have very few Sage trees left... though they are actively hunting for them and finding more all the time in unexpected places
@@FishingHistoricPlaces : The other thing I learned from the Big Tree tour: How important it is to walk up to a big tree and touch it (and not just view from any distance) if you want to truly appreciate how big it is. One particular example is the giant sycamore beside the Harmonyville VT Country Store. The tree is about 50 ft off of Rte 30 north of Newfane and I must have driven by this a hundred times over the years without really noticing it. But only when I took the tour and we walked up to the base of the tree did I fully appreciate how humongous this thing was. Just astounding.
@@NichaelCramer I love it!! I've always done that without really realizing...is this REAL ...comes to mind as I do!! It's a very sublime thing to stumble on one of these mammoths hiking or hunting. Awe!!!!!
You walk around New England forests and you'll find stone walls. All of those stone walls were cleared farmland initially. We have a number here in NH. Where I live in SE NH there are old Granite quarries where you can still see the holes in the granite they drilled. Plus they wanted the tallest trees for masts for ships, Exeter, NH had a big history in that.
Moxie is my favorite soda...and I gotta get up there this summer. I'm doing a vid on White Pines specifically soon, and another on the types of stonewalls.
Thanks! It's one of my major fields of study. I have a lot of shorts and several videos, of which I have linked a few, on the topic...with a series coming soon to commemorate the anniversary. I hope you enjoy and please comment! Thanks for watching.
Very educational video! I live in a very different environment (The Netherlands), but the fields of solar panels also bother me. We have so much area covered in built up environment, yet there are apparently no regulations to use the surface of all the roofs of these modern warehouses for solar panels. Yes I know, it would make their construction more expensive. But to use agricultural (sometimes the most fertile one) or natural terrain for solar panels makes no sense.
That's what WE were sold over here...that they would go on warehouse roofs and highway sidings. It's funny that the same people who have been screaming about Crony Capitalism pretend not to notice the Public-Utility-Private funding that is floating them. I don't know about the Netherlands but the East Coast isn't known for it's wonderful sunshine and like you we are well North of the tropics meaning we get MONTHS when those panels are probably getting 4 good hours per day of sun....Thanks for watching!
8:36 It grew back I would think, not because they where good stewards, but that full grown trees further west where what where worth cutting down. It wasn't till that range of big lumber was far enough from the coast that considering that growth was worth it.
It was never a complete deforestation and swamps, rugged hills and water courses protected even some sage trees ("Virgin" forest stands are being found all over N.E., small but real) so the reforestation occurred in patterns based on mast years...not because of any human plan. So yes!! Thanks for watching!
As I live in Southern Connecticut it is horrendous to see our trees disappear as these suburban neighborhoods age the home-owners are soo paranoid of their own trees that they cannot wait to cut them down! The sheer difference around here even from the 1960's to today is startling 'bare'!
Most New England communities had Tree Wardens and Tree Surgeons by the mid 1950's and Arbor Day was a day celebrated across the country. Today, they celebrate "Earth Day" hiking a local trail while a tree removal company cuts down the 300 year old Sugar Maples on their tree belt, while they decry the loss of our "Environment"! Unbelievable.
Chestnut are surviving by stump sprouts and they are actually planting hybrids so good news. Elm are still around but not the massive ones that lined our Northeast streets 100 years ago. Beech and Hemlock are the ones under the gun now. Videos to follow! (And thanks for watching and commenting)
Pretty sure walnut is struggling as well. I remember those nasty chestnuts in backyards all over the place as a kid in Brockton,MA.. I'd heard recently that the blight that wiped out the chestnuts is still around, or was it a beetle? The red birch seems to always struggle as well...Interesting factoid; The natives knew a certain healing mushroom or moss would grow on decaying red birches. During the civil war and other wars, troops would always try to make camps in groves of these birches for their wounded. It was believed that just being around them promoted healing ...
@@lukula2934 I've also heard that. Birch root and bark was considered a major healing herb!! Winslow Homer's Birch Swing painting, done just after he came back from the war shows two children swinging..or bouncing...on a birch...one in blue and the other in homespun. I've always interpreted it as a painting about National Healing!
When I built my house in the catskills in the early 1990s, one of the guys working on it who was in his 50s or 60s, pointed to the densly wooded mountain behind my home which is 3400 feet tall. He said when he was a kid there was only one large tree on the top of the mountain. And they didn't call the mountain by it's USGS name. They called it "sheep's pen" because it was all sheep pasture.
Farming sheep, and building stone walls in sheep country is a centuries old farming practice in Northern England, Wales, and the English/ Scottish border lands.
It sure is...and the Northeast resembled that Hedge and Down countryside 150 years ago. Most people have no idea! Thanks for adding to the conversation!
I lived in Vermont 5 yrs. I was shocked at the industry up there. Clear cut 100 acres of hardwood. Takes 100 years to recover. Woods that were half recovered were ugly.
Adjacent to my property in Maine 900+ acres was clear cut, roads built, stumps excavated and land bulldozed for a solar project and power transmission line. I’ll not see it, but one day perhaps it’ll revert to forest again when the current climate hysteria is just another memory.
Thanks for sharing! We are seeing another...slow but steady clearance... happening before our eyes...and of course...most of us won't notice...the PROGRESS... As aluminum and glass replaces our White Pine and Maple!
Solar leaves a lot to be desired, but I think of it like the evolution of transportation from horse and wagons, to trains, to early cars that were ugly looking and produced a lot of smoke and leaked a lot of fluids. It's technology in progress and I'm hoping as it improves, it's less noticeable and leaves a smaller footprint.
I agree. It will get less impactful as the tech improves...but didn't you, like I, think that these arrays were going along highways and waste areas (Superfund sites in cities)? They sold us a bill of goods that we gladly went along with but their legislation was written to allow Solar Industry abuse using public funds to subsidize what is becoming another forest clearance. I hope the tech improves quickly because demand for electricity isn't going away. Thanks for watching and adding to the discussion. And I agree with your point...
@@FishingHistoricPlaces No, I definitely agree. If you define the scope of the projects that way, then you need to honor that agreement with the public. Overreach is a problem in this instance and damages the trust that we have with government and the industry. Thank you for documenting that, because I think a lot of this goes unnoticed.
@@paulfarley9365 I'm going to do a focused video on it across the summer and into fall so it's more clear to viewers. There's still time to get State legislators to make some honest changes to contain the mission creep.
Interesting video. I live in southeastern Massachusetts and most of the mature trees "in the woods" in my area are around 100 years old (count the rings after cut down). I am close to a few larger cities so I had always assumed they continued to hay the fields for horses until cars took over in the 1920s. After cars took over, there was no reason to tend the fields and thus the trees were allowed to grow in. Any thoughts on this theory?
Out where you are, market gardening and hay making would have definitely had a larger role in the agricultural economy than West of 495. You'd certainly resemble half of a Von Thunen bullseye in the area around Boston, probably overlapping with Salem, Framingham, Concord which would mean you'd have woodlots too...though they were certainly bringing in firewood and coal by sea. They needed to keep dairy close to urban nodes because it spoiled so easily right through the automobile. I should have mentioned Von Thunen in the video... maybe another is in order because his theory (taking into account topography) works pretty well. Check it out . en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Heinrich_von_Th%C3%BCnen I think your on the right track for sure. Let me know what you think of the Von Thunen model please...and thanks for watching!
I have not seen the Von Thunen model before - very interesting. I have lived in the same town since the 1960s in SE MA. There were still several local dairy farms and some market gardening still ongoing when I was a kid. The area is all suburbs and woods now. The rock walls in the area still had remnants of wood fences on top of them with barbed wire in some places when I was a kid - all rotted and gone now. I guess the land was perhaps mostly for grazing dairy up until the early 1900s? Even if not used for active grazing, for harvesting hay to support the local dairies? Strange, I don't know where my milk comes from now as I buy it a Walmart! Thanks for the very informative video and response.
@@markhousman8447 absolutely my pleasure! Our stories are very similar. We are both living in a PUZZLE that we are trying to reconstruct... because we actually care about the past and our own regions unique history! Many of the questions we ask haven't even been tackled by any FORMAL history yet...and we are making patchwork quilts out of the information and sources available. It's frustrating and fun at the same time...and knowing others care about the battle gives us both inspiration I'm sure! Hope to hear from you again!
Thank you. Very interesting. How long does it take for a forest to completely re- grow. On Long Island there are a few spots, mostly in areas occupied for the last 125 years by estates of the wealthy, that have breathtaking trees that seem to be from another world. These trees seem older than 125 years but it is hard to believe that they are from the original forest. Do you have any idea where they came from? Are you a teacher?
"Completely" is a difficult word. I'm doing a video right now on how fast a field goes "feral" and becomes a young forest...which I'll tell you, depending on the trees, can be less than 30 years, but we'd have to call that a young or first stage forest. A "completely" regrown forest would have multiple levels in the canopy and glades where large trees have fallen allowing another burst of sun and small scale regrowth. This would take hundreds of years...but to us ... walking in a wooded area says FOREST so few would split hairs like that. Thanks for watching!! Long Island, especially out East must have some very interesting regrowth going on. I plan on getting out their and poking around this fall. I usually only see it from the ocean and...btw ...how about Plum Island, off Orient Point! It was Fort Terry back in WW2 and since, has regrown in most places. I've heard the State of NY is buying the property to leave "Forever Wild" as a ecology site. Wouldn't that be a great multi-year, multi-century study!
And, yes. I've been teaching in the same district in Western Massachusetts for 35+ years. History and Science. Those massive trees on the estates CAN be from the original forest. The big estate owners would have left shade trees during their development AND some of these might have been pasture trees (farmers like to leave a few trees to shade their livestock)...so seriously, they may be relics of the time of the Montauk or Shinnecock!
@@FishingHistoricPlaces I will go back to the places I mentioned and confirm my impressions. If I am correct, I will send you directions. I am, however, referring to the so called Gold Coast (the northernmost five or six miles of Nassau County). The latest Goggle Earth would useful. It is so upgraded that I can clearly see chairs on my lawn. What is Americas biggest man made crop aside from timber. It’s not soybeans, or corn or grain! It’s grass, ornamental grass covers 100,000 square miles (I may be off a bit), I am a lawyer.
@@KR72534 wow! I believe it. In Southwick we had a massive grass or turf farm called Tuckahoe Turf, now out of business. On an old lake bed covering square miles!
Seems like in the NE you can’t stop stuff from growing. The west is different due to rainfall (lower rates). I always think of those forests as Elmer Fudd territory.
Totally. I have his voice rattling around in my head when I'm in them.....Kill da wabbit, kill da wabbit...wascally wabbit!! And you bet...if you don't mow a field, it's a forest in under 10 years!
Isn't it weird? On the East coast, we have so many trees of medium size, and at least in the more favorable West coast forests, they have more giant's, that reach great heights and volume. Apparently the East and upper Midwest had some impressive large hardwoods, and tall White pine. I've read that Maine is the most forested state in the US.
@@richtomlinson7090 Maine is certainly heavily forested from my experience...but the Adirondacks in NY is healthier, and probably older. Maine has been worked hard for timber. I'm going to be doing a video on White Pine in the next few months and more on the clearances as well. Thanks for watching!
Seriously. For years I would say...what kind of crops were they growing on the side of this hill!! I'm going to do some more thorough vids on our stonewalls, their types and history soon. Thanks for watching!
@@terrencegibbons3351 ahhh....aliens? The walls were built to contain Merino Sheep. It is documented. They are now in a ruined state. Some had wooden rails above them to keep the little beauties from roaming. We are talking about thousands of miles of walls...built all over central New England...in the 1810's-1850's....in the most settled part of U.S. This is heavily documented history.
@@terrencegibbons3351 We aren't talking about walls built 5000 years ago when people didn't know how to read and write. We know exactly why New England walls were built. Some were certainly property boundaries, but the idea that thousand of miles of walls were built "for an unknown reason" is wrong.
Most of the solar I see going up in western CT and the Hudson Valley is on unused pastures. While this prevents these fields from reverting to forest, they’re not cutting existing woodlands for solar farms.
Out here in WM...they have gotten into the Berkshire Hills... cutting acres to put up solar. We thought they were going to use the sides of highways or Superfund sites in cities... I never expected fields, pastures or forests...
@@irtnyc where are you from? Do you have Google Earth access? Do you want coordinates? In Western Massachusetts I know of SEVERAL spots where this has occurred and showed one at the end of the video you just watched. I'll be making another specific to the topic...so you can see more...but have you heard of Otis, Blandford, Tolland or Sandisfield? Those are a few towns here where it's already happened. Private land owners allowing forests to be destroyed (and fields are an even more threatened habitat in the Northeast if you know your ecology and I'm not even talking about that) for $$$.
When naturalist William Bartram travelled through Georgia, he said you could ride a horse through the woods, like an English countryside. In other words, the Indians were burning regularly, and keeping the brush down. They did the same thing in New England to improve the hunting. Also, the prairie extended east as far as Pennsylvania along Lake Erie, complete with buffalo herds. Again, the local indians burned the land to keep down brush and trees and keep the buffalo coming. British settlers found a man-made landscape when they arrived, complete with open fields to farm and parkland to hunt.
Absolutely. It's documented extensively and apparent in Archaeology. The hand of man has shaped the land since ...? The coming of the Native People 10-25-20-30,000 years ago... depending on when you date it.Thanks for watching!
There were a lot more fields...and the regrowing wood between Fairhaven Bay and Walden Pond burned in a forest fire started by....Henry!! Thoreau was quite a character!
My wife (who is a Putnam County New York native) has a cousin from The Jersey Shore who remarked to her one day on a visit how amazed she was with the “natural” stone walls crisscrossing all over New York and New England. She didn’t realize they were man made! 😆
@@FishingHistoricPlaces that’s true. I guess it is something taken for granted for those of us who grew up in the woods of Southern New England and Eastern New York.
While those regions aren't necessarily in my own wheelhouse...the Laurentide Ice maybe got as far South as Maryland-Northern Va. The forest above the terminal moraine would be nearly the same. The area of the Southeast below that would have been similar to the Northeastern Woodlands 400 years ago showing the great influence of FIRE in the environment with great fields in various stages of regrowth, interspersed with a more open Woodland probably having groves and pockets of monocultures. This is my speculation. I know there are a few other channels on UA-cam that deal with those forests. A search might be in order.
The whaling industry consumed huge amounts of timber for ships and for the rendering kettles that would burn 24 hours at a time. Add to that pressure migration that began in the 1600s and continues to this day created a persistent demand for timber for housing and heating. It's a wonder we have any forests at all.
Well said. The constant churning and transforming US economy is hard to predict and regulate. The Solar Craze in the Northeast is just one example of it's unintended consequences today. I am going to do a focused vid on each of the clearances this year and your notation of whaling-i.e. shipbuilding and the maritime connection to the landscape is a great add.
There sure is, but out here Feller Bunchers are quite restricted on log lots and selective harvest is the norm. In the days of horse logging, no regulations led to areas being worked into stump fields. Only extreme terrain prevented loggers from taking everything of value which is why the State of NY woke up to the danger of full deforestation and created the massive Adirondack Park to try to preserve their forest legacy. The logging then was all horse logging, generally done in the winter, with the rivers complete with holding reservoirs used for the great log drives. I worked at a lumber mill back in the 80's whose owner was horse logging at the end of the box board clearance after WW2. Now they typically make pallets.
I am a large forest in New England and when I walk my forest I see endless walls so I assume it was clear cut back in the day. I have no plan to log my land and neither do my kids. They know and respect my wishes. Don’t worry the largest land owner in my area is a logger so he is always cutting trees and opening the forest.
Wasn't aware of the Merino craze or the Native's penchant for burning large areas of forest...What was the purpose of this? Was it just to clear land or perhaps regenerate the grasses for their animals? So much of even recent history has been lost...kind of sad. I suspect the harsh winters had as much to do with major alterations in societal trends as any other factor. There must have been a fairly constant diaspora over the last few centuries.
Check out the earlier video I've linked. It covers the Native People's penchant for burning the forest back creating sweeping fields and areas of regrowth. Winters were more r severe then for sure and probably the weather as a whole. Native Americans had NO domesticated animals beyond dogs in most of North America and only llama, guinea pig and alpaca in South America. The clearances were generally about farming and opening up the forest environment for hunting... although that may have been indidenral. Thanks for watching and adding to the conversation...and check out the linked video.
Oh? How dare they! 😆 My wife’s uncle is a retired forester for the state of New York. He managed the forests up in the Catskills for some of the same reasons as the American aboriginals did. He lives on an old farm, all but about two acres of which have bee reclaimed by the forest. We love going up to visit because he tells us all about the geography, flora, fauna and history of the area. We find all sorts of pieces of old farming equipment and tack in his woods. My kids love exploring the rock walls looking for fossils of small, ancient, sea creatures. It is a great first hand history experience.
@@FishingHistoricPlaceshaha yeah! I remember that slogan! I don’t know if you have been all the way down I84 to NY state, right at the borderline there on the median is the old I❤️NY logo.
I read about the Hurricane of 1938 knocking down a large number of trees throughout New England. And the US Military harvested the fallen timber, storing a tremendous amount of beams and boards as a contingency for World War 2. Does this qualify as a forest clearing event?
The Hurricane of 1938 occurred near the end of the Boxboard clearance...and while it has a major impact on Western New England forests in my mind doesn't rank as one on its own. There were two similar Hurricanes that had significant forest impact, 1635 and 1815 ...the first at the near end of the Native Clearance and the 2nd at the start of Sheep Fever. The 1815 Great N.E. Hurricane certainly helped that clearance. These natural events including 38 were part of, but not clearances on their own as I'm talking in the video about human-environment interaction. Great add...and you can still find pillows and cradles marking the blow downs caused by the '38 storm in Western New England. Thanks for watching!
The Hurricane of 1938 occurred near the end of the Boxboard clearance...and while it has a major impact on Western New England forests in my mind doesn't rank as one on its own. There were two similar Hurricanes that had significant forest impact, 1635 and 1815 ...the first at the near end of the Native Clearance and the 2nd at the start of Sheep Fever. The 1815 Great N.E. Hurricane certainly helped that clearance. These natural events including 38 were part of, but not clearances on their own as I'm talking in the video about human-environment interaction. Great add...and you can still find pillows and cradles marking the blow downs caused by the '38 storm in Western New England. Thanks for watching!
You might also point out that American forests were mostly burned just for the ash. Industry demanded ash for chemical processes that affected everything. Most modern people know so very little about anything that really matters. Look up the history of Potash exports from North American Forests.
Charcoal burning was huge!! I forgot to mention it when I was doing the first clearance. It's tough just rambling and jibbering like I do...to get it all. I am going to do three companion vids... shooting now ..and I'll certainly mention it! They won't be out until this fall.
Where I live there are so many cellar holes and long forgotten burial grounds that as kids we came across! BTW the Wampanoag People still live here..I live next door to them I call them my neighbors.Many of the stone walls were taken away for the Civil war. The solar farm are destroying 10's of thousands of wildlife habitat!!!
I've gotta get out your way more and will soon as I'm doing a series on King Philips War. Great history and Natural History out there and I really wish more people saw the danger solar farms pose. Thanks for reaching out!
@@KR72534 I never said they were taken away although a commenter said it happened during the depression. Many have been used as small scale quarries and with the wealthy New Yorker buying up old homesteads all over Western New England but especially in the Berkshires, and then determining that they NEED a dry stone wall you can imagine the results. I have a friend that builds dry stone walls and he gets his material from quarries but don't think he is the norm. I have seen several easily accessible stone walls disappear in the last decade...hmmm....
I've been teaching it for 37 years, reenacting, doing Living History and presentations, and just learning...in addition to coaching and all the other things you do in a High School. As a Fisherman and Hunter, I've looked, wondered and investigated ...and I don't have all the answer believe me...but I'm sharing what I have because History matters...and as time passes...all kinds of odd speculation gets tossed around... there's some of it here in the form of comment.
I see, I see. I have a BA in History, but never pursued a career in it. The interest is still there though-especially for local history. I’ve studied a lot of American history, World history, Ancient to Modern European history, but I have found that local history is never even touched upon. It’s a shame because local history gives people a stronger sense of and respect for the place in which they live, the way things were and where they are going. Would you agree?
@@keithmccormack6248 it's one of the greatest tragedies of the State of Massachusetts takeover of K-12 education...State Standards in Massachusetts don't even include a History of Massachusetts component, never mind local history. As teachers , not from the community they teach in, struggle with these standards, they have no skin in the game concerning preserving the history of a locality. All over the region, the only groups keeping local history alive are our tiny local historical societies filled with Seniors looking for something to do, often not even interested in history. Then there is the Historical flavor of the month syndrome... making it passe to be about simply preserving the awesome little pieces of history each community has, but instead sublimating it in an effort to find a connection to ....put it this way. In the 19th and early 20th Century every community on the Eastern Seaboard wanted to tie in to Washington or the American Revolution...which meant that so many other events of the various communities Histories were ignored in favor of highlighting a Revolution Connection...or in some places ..a War Between the States Connection. Now...the local historical societies are all about the history of what they believe are the "marginalized" groups in their communities...
@@FishingHistoricPlacesIndeed! Your students are very fortunate to have you as a teacher. I hope they have an appreciation for your knowledge of history and what you do for them.
@@keithmccormack6248 I have a great connection with them still, which is why I'm still in the game despite Mass Teacher Retirement. Kids are the same as they ever were, and when you learn to sell it ...you got em. We have kids from all over the world in my district...46 different languages...firmer Soviet Republics, all over the Middle East, South and East Asia. I learn from them every day! Which I guess is the secret...and some even watch the channel...and thanks for your kind words and insights!! We travel similar paths ...out into central NY...it's a beautiful region!;
weird, i just clicked on this video because i love New England history, Then my town pops up for the restoration, and I realize exactly where you are and what field. love to see it.
Thanks!! Check out some of my other stuff in the area. I also do a short every day!
I’ve been asking this question to my self for 10+ years and I can never get the internet to reveal the answers. Thank the UA-cam algorithm. Thank you for your wealth of knowledge!!!
My pleasure! I will be doing more detailed work on the specific clearances and related topics in the future. Thanks for your generous praise and encouragement!
Very good video. At the end of my driveway, on the town road is a CCC built catch basin. The CCC did a great job on cleaning up after the Hurricane of 38. My land is very rocky and was used for grazing and firewood from the mid1700s until I bought it in 1986. I had assumed that it was cows grazing. Good Luck, Rick
Very interesting!! Dairy never went away but I would bet anything that there were some Merinos too!! I'll be doing more detailed focused vids on each of the phases of clearance this year!
Growing up in 1970s Eastern MA the woods behind my parents’ home were filled with miles of stone walls. It was a great realization to me then that at one point most of the trees had been cut down and then had grown back.
I had an anniversary book for my town’s 250th anniversary in the late 70s that had photos of the town at its 200th anniversary in the 1920s, that showed a completely different landscape than the one I was growing up in.
It's much the same out here. You see old photos and barely recognize the site because...there are FEW trees and they are much smaller. West Springfield's Old White Church used to be visible from all over the lower Pioneer Valley. Good luck seeing it now...
My dad born 1920 often spoke of his CCC experience. He made the best of his situation - formed friendships and good memories. I have fond memories of visiting Kent Falls Connecticut with him. I still recall walking many CCC areas and listening to his experiences. Talk about a full life. He later sailed the Oceans as US Navy reserve on the USS Delta a repair ship as a machinist repairing different types of craft during WW2 and then later the Korean War.
What a time in must have been! It's weird that so few monuments to what they did exist in the awesome places they created... legacies for us all. I wish we'd do it again...the way they did ...now, with those in need of skills...young people who want a wage AND to serve!
@@FishingHistoricPlacestoo bad a family wage is hard to find these days because nobody want to pay one.
My dad, from Jersey City, served CCC in Idaho. Going to his old camp this summer.
@@FishingHistoricPlaces there are some monuments per se, but most exist only in the actual projects.
That said I have noticed actual monuments being dedicated to the ccc boys dedicated recently.
@@walterhassard8257 I've seen some kiosks around, and markers citing the CCCs help creating particular State Forests. Do you mean these or an actual stone memorial?
Lived in Westfield MA for 20 years and I love the history and roaming around the woods. Very good video. Thanks
Thanks. There should be a lot of vids you enjoy. I do a short every day and 2 videos a week...with one being related to fishing.
Covering land with solar fields is OBSCENE. Cover parking lots etc. with them so people can park in the shade.
Exactly. That's what all of us thought would happen...but we're finding out how political types twist good intentions...
Excellent idea, but someone would ruin the idea for everyone.
Intentional shady areas with a secondary purpose, we would all benefit.
There is plenty of black top that needs shading and a lot of empty roof tops.
@@percyfaith11 I 💯 agree
Everyone agrees that it makes the most sense to put solar in already developed sites. There are two reasons it is slow to start in the US.
First, it is significantly more expensive than cutting down a new growth forest, so if you don't want forests cut down, you can't just leave it to the market, and no matter how you slice it, the resulting electricity will be somewhat more expensive. It is hard to get everyone (rate payers, power companies and their shareholders, legislators, tax payers) on the same page to make that decision, but it could be done.
Second, particularly regarding industrial rooftop solar, is the fact that many of these properties are leased, so there's a basic problem in figuring out who makes the long term capital investment in rooftop solar, if the utility customer (the occupant) does not own the building, which may also already be 10 years away from a complete roof replacement or whose projected lifespan (disposable construction) may not extend to the projected life of the solar array on its roof.
Wow, I love the outdoors and live in N.E. and I learned so much. Excellent job. cheers
Thanks! Don't be a stranger. I put out local content daily.... shorts and video.
Around 1980, an "old timer" in the catskill mountains told me that he had seen this cycle in his lifetime. When he was young, land that had been farmed many years before he was born, was wooded again. As a child, he saw the land cleared again for farming, and then again start to become woods as the end of the era of the small family farm happened during the 1960s and 1970s, and the forrest started to reclaim the land. Now 40+ years later, I see many places that were open fields at that time, which are dense woodlands now.
I've had similar conversations and seen for myself the speed that out forests reginerate.There was an old sawdust pile where a lumber outfit has set up a portable saw, complete with chips, slabs, the whole thing. I would pass it walking into a place I hunted and originally the pile was over 20 feet high. After a bad year in the area, I went elsewhere for five years and when I came back, the sawdust pile was barely a hump and trees were sprouting everywhere. Today it's a young forest... mostly birch and maple. A crazy transformation in thirty years.
There is long stretch of road in Maine where I live that used to be fields as far as the eye could see. The road itself is called "Plains Road" presumably for that very reason. Today, you would not recognize it. Just in the past 30 years, eastern white pine, and a mixture of hardwood trees, maple, ash, etc. have taken over those fields and you can no longer see the profile of Mt. Washington in the distance. If you were to walk the acreage away from that road, you would find many stone walls that delineated the farmers fields.
@@paulfarley9365 think about how many highway "overlooks" are now boxed in by trees ...Save the Panorama!
paulfarley9365 yes, that's the way it is in ny too. A walk through the woods requires you to cross many walls, what were walls or just piles of stone. I guess the land is just waiting for the next cycle to be reclaimed for farming.
Yes, why would we think humans are any different then the rest of nature?
The ebb and flow of life never stops...Do trees re-incarnate? I've done much
fishing-hunting-canoing in these NE lands since the 60's...There's magic out
there people...For me this is undeniable.
Peoples State Forest is our families favorite park. I never knew about the Merino sheep craze. I enjoyed listening to your talk. Thanks.
I LOVE People's State Forest ( it's one of my favorite mushroom hunting areas) and the Farmington River is a jewel!! I'm glad I could help with your understanding of our awesome area...and have done and will continue to do a video per week on our Southern New England History and Natural History as well as a daily short and a Fishing Related longer video. I hope you explore my channel a little and ...thanks for watching!!
You're a busy man! Thanks for the wonderful video, and a huge thanks for not ruining it with crappy background music.
I don't know why some people feel compelled to add annoying background music throughout their videos.
@@savage22bolt32 Ha!! Thanks...and yes...I hate it myself! And it's weird music. Weird trend ... I like to hear the birds and the world around...but sometimes music can cover audio imperfections...
our mountain in vermont, we used to use old cars/trucks and concrete pads that are in the middle of the forest as landmarks. "seen a big deer over by the buick"
We do it in places here to....over by the upside down Packard or the Model T Ford. The old farm fields, now forests are full of em!!! Great add!!
Heyyy this is the first time I've EVER seen Changes in the Land referenced in a UA-cam video! Heartening to see there are people doing the good work of spreading the word with the best sources we have.
ua-cam.com/video/vmCS6pK3fGw/v-deo.htmlsi=ARFDJCpLoJf6XsSa
I shared another video from a few months ago where it discuss Cronin a little further. His work was GROUNDBREAKING and still not appreciated by the general public. Thanks for watching and sharing your encouraging comments. Creating these videos can be a lonely affair!
It's one of my favorite books.
@@fishmanandginne7495 it's awesome from page 1!
No matter how many times human beings cut down the forests, nature always claims the land back in some form or another.
It truly does! As a Forester friend of mine says ...the thing about our Eastern Woodlands is...They WANT to grow. Look at any vacant lot, median strip, shut down mall or abandoned property....BOOM ... Sumac -Birches-Maples-White Pines....saplings all ...but not for long if left alone! Thanks for watching!!
An excellent historical tour of NE forests. Great job!
Thanks! More to come on the topic soon!
Just found your channel. I liked this video and subscribed. You’ve got a new subscriber from upstate New York. Ancestors on my mom’s side were early pioneer settlers of New England, Long Island, and the Hudson Valley. Interesting content here. Keep up the good work.
Thanks. I get out your way quite a bit every year so expect some content you might be very familiar with. I have licenses to fish in NY, MA and CT and incorporate a fishing/history vid and a walk around history vid weekly as well as a short per day. Always looking into history and natural history corners and niches. Thanks for watching and hope you enjoy!
Great point about the native peoples doing plenty of their own forest management well before Europeans arrived. Some people have this rosy picture in their head that the natives left everything “wild” which was not the case at all. The tribes encouraged mast producing trees which meant better hunting grounds for them. This was a pretty good rundown of the last 400 or so years. Keep ‘em coming. I’m a central Connecticut native myself.
Thanks and you bet I will. It's funny that we've had their use of fire in our historical record for so long but never want to call it what it was, Forest Management! That said, as you pointed out, there are so many preconceived notions of who the Native People were (basically coming down to everything that a particular generation of Americans wish they were) that even talking about the period can be asking for trouble...but that's what makes it fun I guess!! Thanks again!
Good video. I like historical overviews that aren't agenda driven. Very nice!
Thanks. I try to make vids as I stumble along...inspired by what I find in the field.
Love learning about the lesser-known history of my home state. Everybody knows the “important” stuff like the Revolutionary War and the founding of the country, etc., but I am just so interested in the little details of life. The land, the nature, the common people. You can see the history in the land!
Absolutely! Pick up a copy of Forest Forensics by Tom Wessels. You'll have a ball next time you take a hike! Thanks for watching.
Love to visit that old carding site by the river. I got a thing for stone walls and foundation holes.
That river is a treasure for you then. There are dozens of old mills along a 10 mile stretch!
We are noticing this 4th clearing in western ny as well... great video
Thank you very much! There will be more on this topic for sure! It's a sneaky clearance and done to smiles from many ....and often where I am, set back from the road so as to be unnoticed...which I feel like, deserves to be noticed. Thanks for watching and adding to the conversation!
thank you for helping me better understand the history of the land I now live on
My pleasure and thanks for reaching out!
This is great thank you. I wish I could take you to Taunton, Ma and show you where we used to ride our dirt bikes in a very large set of woods. In there we ride by old foundations and a random stone tunnel type of channel through the ground
I've actually gotta get out there this summer sometime for some filming I'm doing on King Philips War... Probably do something with the Dighton Rock also. You're in an area with tremendous early history...and mystery!!
And thanks for saying!!
Great story. If memory serves me correctly, the CCC planted many trees. Their work is still very evident in many places, very visible by the perfectly aligned rows of trees in what is now forest.
Absolutely. It's odd they did that that because that period Was all about soil conservation and straight lines don't work!! Thanks for watching!!
Excellent presentation!
Thanks! I've been doing them for years...but off camera!
Great stuff!!
Came up in my feed and once I heard the voice I knew it was Stan the man.
The one and only! Thanks for checking it out.
Learned something, thank you, grew up in Chicopee and I remember the sections of woods here, long gone😢, retiring to Maine in a couple yrs to go back to the woods.
Chicopee is interesting because much of its Western portion has all that yellow sand ...right down to 391 and through memorial drive....which is dust from glacial lake Hitchcock's sediment that blew East over the years after the lake bed was exposed. I've gotta do a video on that post glacial fun sometime! Thanks for watching.
I grew up in No. Cambridge. I thought Arlington Heights was the woods. I knew they cut down a shit load for the Civil War. You have knowledge and a love of New England. Nothing is more beautiful than the Springtime in New England. I used to live on the Vineyard. The stone walls up island are magical. I liked this a lot. Thank You
Thanks very much. I make a short per day and two videos a week with one focused on Fishing+History/Natural History. I hope you enjoy and continue to let me know what you think. I'm having fun doing this but it's great to know others are liking it!! Thanks again!
My father grew up in Arlington in the 1940s It’s surprising today to consider it, S it’s so built up, but he said as a kid there were still some farms operating in the town, and to go just a bit further West to towns like Burlington or Bedford, it was all rural back then.
Came across the great video, was very impressed at your thoroughness and passion. really brought amazing insight into our valley, love from westfield
Thank you very much and right back at you from WS where I grew up and teach and SWCK where I live. I stumble around fishing and investigating our History and Natural History making videos along the way as ideas hit me. Please enjoy and let me know if I'm missing something that screams...We Need a Video on that...to you!! Thanks again!
@@FishingHistoricPlaces I can’t wait to watch through your videos, its great to stumble upon local content creators. Especially on this topic. I’ll comment if anything speaks to me!
Nice job, I’m a fan of the local history, natural and economic, thanks.
Thank you. I basically stumble around filming what I bump into. Always look forward to comments and suggestions!
This was a very interesting and well informed video, sir. Thank you.
My pleasure. I hope you enjoy some of my others. There is history or natural history in all of them though some involve a little fishing too. Thanks for watching!
Cool video
Thanks!
I have a couple acres of my 6.4 acres in central MA that was never cleared of stone. It's in the same state it was 10,000 years ago. Rocks everywhere!! It's a geology class field trip. On my 31 acre property in NH I have a huge erratic the size of a small house that's split right down the middle.
There are a few areas I've found like that, but remember that some farmers believed that stones were actually good fertilizer...and planted around them. I've read that it was a Celtic tradition but I'm not certain of the origin. I've got some stuff coming soon on Glacial Erratics and Boulder Trains...which have generated some serious misapprehension as people got back into our local forests during the COVID. I look forward to your comments! Thanks for watching and engaging in the conversation!!
@@FishingHistoricPlaces Very interesting! The difference in soil one state away is shocking. On my 2nd property in NH I can dig a three foot deep hole no problem. On my property in central MA I can't dig two inches without hitting a rock. It's crazy!
As a Conn native and person who hikes in many of our state parks and forests, I really enjoyed and appreciated your video.
Thanks! There's many similar on my channel with a lot more coming. I basically stumble around the Northeast doing History and Natural History shorts and video....with some fishing too. I hope you continue to enjoy and comment!
Super great message again. Yes, brick were important as now.
Hey brother. I live in south eastern mass. Just wanted to say your videos are great thanks for making them.
Thank You!! I gotta get out your way more this year...great history AND fishing!!
Excellent work, thank you!
Thanks for reaching out with kind words! I'm trying to make a content driven channel without the reliance on over editing I see on many. I still have an attention span, as you do...so I can watch somebody just walking around talking history. Thanks again!
Truly interesting! I've lived in central Ma. My whole life, I'm not we'll read but always tried to learn about the forest and walls etc. I'm in the heart of Nipmuc lands and spend a lot of time in the woods. The walls, old cellar holes and large old growth trees( or at least ones way bigger than others) always have caught my eye. Usually you will see one or 2 very large trees near a wall corner with no big trees near it and wondered if it was left on purpose for a property marker when others around it were cut out of necessity? My grandfather came down from New Brunswick in the early part of 1900's and have been to the land up country and saw the old foundation hole now with trees growing up through. Great video! I have subscribed.
The corner large trees or big boulders on the corners of walls were often part of a property surveying system we used in New England called Meets and Bounds....whereby you wrote up a deed...from the big rock on hill thirty rods North to the pond and then Southwest to the Willow thicket. Often you just get shade trees left in a wall, or, trees getting a chance to sprout in the soils between the rocks! Thanks for watching...I'm getting out your way this summer for some footage and videos so expect to see places you recognize soon!
Great to hear, I'm actually right on the edge of Douglas State forest and spent many times hiking in the Blackstone valley. There are a lot of interesting things out here in the local woods to explore! Looking forward to more of your videos!!
@@radiodead745 that's a gorgeous and very underappreciated area ...like so much of South,-Central Massachusetts. Everybody swarms Quabbin and the Berkshires overlooking so many other awesome areas...
You are a very interesting teacher sir, thank you.
Thanks for saying! I enjoy bringing it...and your comments or additions are ALWAYS appreciated!
Thanks, everything I had assumed was wrong about the property I own in Connecticut.....lol...
I'm not saying I've always known this stuff .. and has alor of ... misapprehensions myself! I've given a general picture in this video. There will be more specific stuff coming with a regional flare! Thanks for watching.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video! Very thorough. I see a threat to the forests that you didn't mention, invasive insects. diseases, development and plant species... Where I am in Southern New England we are losing a lot of trees. First Gypsy Moths killing Oaks and now the Emerald Ash borer killing Ash trees. Not to mention a nematode killing the beech trees. Development is also an issue, they clear cut and build. Most solar around here is on former farm land that was already cleared.
Thank you sir!! You have predicted a future video! I didn't want to include invasives in this video as they rarely destroyed an entire forest (except for the Chestnut blight in Kentucky and Tennessee) and their were just so many rabbit holes to go down. One will be out by summers end featuring the Columbian Exchange in all of its invasive glory...from over harvesting of various forest products through nematodes, lantern flies and bittersweet...it might even have to be two parts! Not a good story to tell...but it appears that despite these threats, the forest will survive, evolve, metamorphosize for years to come... maybe long after we are gone!
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I included the video above because our fields are more threatened than our forests.
THANK YOU!
My pleasure! More to come on our Woodlands and several already up in the Field Trip folder. I also do a short a day on history and natural history! Thanks for watching!
In north east Pennsylvania the forest was clear cut for building new Amsterdam and clear cut to build the D&H canal and clear cut for the railroad, there’s plenty of out of place stone walls and foundations left from past endeavors. There’s foundations of houses that predate historic deeds from the early 1800s that say there’s no building on the property.
enjoyed the walk around. Thank you
My pleasure. You had a LOT of those Merinos up in VT!!
@@FishingHistoricPlaces I am an old fart now and do not run the ridges like I used to , but have seen many changes----not all good.
Nice info, thanks.
Thats a beautiful story. Please write a book
Good discussion and the reference to Wm Cronin leads to some original sources. A lot of more recent research at Brown U. h has been done on palynology from sediment cores taken from in NE ponds and bogs which trace the development and evolution of forests after deglaciation (12,000 - 15,000 BP).
Some mention of deforestation of southern NE from cutting trees for iron making should be included. While these iron furnaces tended to be close to their ore sources and not widespread beyond those locales, their effects were substantial. In some Connecticut valleys the hills were harvested for hardwoods to make charcoal several times, as the size of the tree for this purpose was not aprimary concern. Thus a period of 20-30 years was
sufficient for this resource to regenerate.
As I strolled around making the video...I intended to talk about the Big Iron and Iron foundation and the Lime and Glass making Kilns that also played a part in the early forest removals...as you point out. I forgot. Years of teaching softening my brain...but on the bright side...I plan on another such walk around video exploring some of the Kilns, Mines and Quarries which will let me circle back!! Thanks for the add, your kind words, and watching. Hope to hear from you again!
Thanks. So interesting.
My pleasure. I hope you enjoy some of my other videos. I will be doing a more detailed look at the three forest clearances as well as some individual tree profiles this season. Thanks for commenting.
Fascinating stuff!
Thanks!
I wonder what it was like when there were chestnut trees in the mix. There's one near me that grows a shoot, 20'-30' and then dies from the blight. Next spring another shoot will start the cycle.
Chestnut in some places would have made up a substantial portion of the forest, I've heard as much as 60 percent in Eastern Kentucky and Tennessee! Imagine the problem their husks would have caused the Native People. Imagine stepping on one with Moccasins? I honestly feel like the removal of these husks was one of their reasons for consistently burning the forest floor.
Thank you
Great metal detecting areas if allowed, love finding historical items in these areas
Absolutely! I've got a lot like these featured on my channel!
I never thaught about there being multiple clear cutting,i thought virgin forest just lasted longer in more isolated places,and they were busy clear cutting till like the mid 1800, then timber management and conservation practices started first couple decades if 1900, interesting concept enjoyed the vid keep up the good work 👍
My video is generally specific to Southern and Central New England. Maine and the North have their own story but I was like you... astonished when I learned the true story of our portion of the Eastern Woodlands!
I grew up along the coast of Massachusetts. There was and old trestle and smaller pilings that was used to support a fuel line used by the United States Navy at one time.
Very interesting. Thank you
Thanks for sharing. I hope you enjoy some of my other videos.
My pleasure!
would be nice to see this history in the pollen record
I’ve seen photos of east coast states from the late 1800’s and there are very few trees from Georgia to Main because they clear cut the wood to farm, cook, build houses, and ships. There are photos at the town hall here that show the town in 1890’s, almost no trees. Now totally covered with trees.
It's hard to recognize our own communities when we see photos only 100 years old as you have stated ...and yet people have a different historical understanding that they prefer to nostalgically enshrine...
It wasn't just in New England, it happened everywhere. The forested areas where I'm from in Florida have been harvested several times. There's hardly any old growth forests left
And you have the whole marsh system to deal with as well...now canaled and compromised.
Lot of our stone walls are mostly sunk into the ground now. All young forest mostly new on the mountains. Only in tough going wet ground can you find old trees that they could not get to easy! Seen old photos that show areas where there were no trees at all! Few and far between of these old photos! Remember my folks telling me that you could see way down the road, in the 50s as I grew up the land and trees were young trees in that area! Over time these young trees became a forest and now there are houses all through where I use to play in the woods! Makes me sick to see the trees all gone again!
Agreed! I've heard people say that their parents remember our Northeast Forest looking like Ireland it has so few trees...and of course, the stone walls! Thanks for watching and joining the conversation!
@@FishingHistoricPlaces 👍🏼👍🏼
I had heard of the Merino Wool craze... And indeed the walls are everywhere here in central MA, and that the natives burned the forests down. But I didn't know about the other clearances. Some land trusts are making a pointed effort to keep and maintain meadow biomes long term in New England.
There are several publicly managed sites in Western Massachusetts that are working on field restoration. Merino Mania was a fairly dramatic, intensive and sudden clearance while the other two were much slower. I'm going to do a specific video on each clearance this year with much more detail. Hope you enjoy!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Growing up in Massachusetts, I find this subject fascinating.
Thanks very much. I'm basically stumbling around making videos of what I find interesting on a moment by moment basis! I post a short every day and two longer videos every week. Please enjoy!
What resources do you use, or are available to research historical forest usage? Southern Maine specifically.
Thanks!
Great question. Standards like Cronin and Wessels and a large variety of primary sources from Pynchon through Captivity Narratives and accounts of King Philips War. I've been working in Colonial and Native Peoples History for many years and exploring the Early National and 19th Century along the way. I'll put up a reasonable bibliography if you're interested. UA-cam has some great Tom Wessels videos and their are others. Natural History, Ecology and Conservation are really sidelined in our Public Schools and yet interest in these topics is exploding. Before I retire I need to create a course at my High School. Thanks for watching!
@@FishingHistoricPlaces excellent thank you. My family is only the second owners of our property since the land was purchased from native folks and established as a town & subdivided in the late 1700s. I know the original family cleared it for livestock and we've essentially cleared it once as well. Outside of that, I'm always fascinated by the historical usage & commerce of an area I hold dear.
@@VENZUL0 as Maines early history overlaps Massachusetts you'll find descriptions of the AT-CONTACT land from some of the early charter holders like Gorges or Winthrop. Sagadahoc (original Maine Colony)is really as old as Jamestown but , didn't last. Depends on where you are... great history up there!
Thank you.
The statistic usually cited here in Vermont is that the state is now 80% forested and 20% clear. In the early/mid 1800s those numbers were reversed.
As many commenters have mentioned, a good indication of this are the stone walls that crisscross the land (in the area where I live in the southern part of the state sheep grazing was very common).
A few years back, our County Forester led a wonderful tour of the “big trees” in the county. For folks like me, who knew very little about such things, the most surprising fact was that virtually none of even the hugest trees were more than 100-120 years old.
I have been amazed by the same observations here in Western Massachusetts. We have very few Sage trees left... though they are actively hunting for them and finding more all the time in unexpected places
@@FishingHistoricPlaces : The other thing I learned from the Big Tree tour: How important it is to walk up to a big tree and touch it (and not just view from any distance) if you want to truly appreciate how big it is.
One particular example is the giant sycamore beside the Harmonyville VT Country Store.
The tree is about 50 ft off of Rte 30 north of Newfane and I must have driven by this a hundred times over the years without really noticing it. But only when I took the tour and we walked up to the base of the tree did I fully appreciate how humongous this thing was. Just astounding.
@@NichaelCramer I love it!! I've always done that without really realizing...is this REAL ...comes to mind as I do!! It's a very sublime thing to stumble on one of these mammoths hiking or hunting. Awe!!!!!
You walk around New England forests and you'll find stone walls. All of those stone walls were cleared farmland initially. We have a number here in NH. Where I live in SE NH there are old Granite quarries where you can still see the holes in the granite they drilled. Plus they wanted the tallest trees for masts for ships, Exeter, NH had a big history in that.
Moxie is my favorite soda...and I gotta get up there this summer. I'm doing a vid on White Pines specifically soon, and another on the types of stonewalls.
looking forward to the one on stonewalls. I really enjoyed this one. @@FishingHistoricPlaces
@@ericstalter1917 thanks very much!
thank you for highlighting king philip's war!
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Thanks! It's one of my major fields of study. I have a lot of shorts and several videos, of which I have linked a few, on the topic...with a series coming soon to commemorate the anniversary. I hope you enjoy and please comment! Thanks for watching.
My man. I am out here doing lawn work on the high plains, thinking about ancient forests. Thanks!
Absolutely my pleasure! Thanks for sharing a little of that Great Plains BIG Sky light!!! Made my day!
Very educational video! I live in a very different environment (The Netherlands), but the fields of solar panels also bother me. We have so much area covered in built up environment, yet there are apparently no regulations to use the surface of all the roofs of these modern warehouses for solar panels. Yes I know, it would make their construction more expensive. But to use agricultural (sometimes the most fertile one) or natural terrain for solar panels makes no sense.
That's what WE were sold over here...that they would go on warehouse roofs and highway sidings. It's funny that the same people who have been screaming about Crony Capitalism pretend not to notice the Public-Utility-Private funding that is floating them. I don't know about the Netherlands but the East Coast isn't known for it's wonderful sunshine and like you we are well North of the tropics meaning we get MONTHS when those panels are probably getting 4 good hours per day of sun....Thanks for watching!
8:36 It grew back I would think, not because they where good stewards, but that full grown trees further west where what where worth cutting down. It wasn't till that range of big lumber was far enough from the coast that considering that growth was worth it.
It was never a complete deforestation and swamps, rugged hills and water courses protected even some sage trees ("Virgin" forest stands are being found all over N.E., small but real) so the reforestation occurred in patterns based on mast years...not because of any human plan. So yes!! Thanks for watching!
As I live in Southern Connecticut it is horrendous to see our trees disappear as these suburban neighborhoods age the home-owners are soo paranoid of their own trees that they cannot wait to cut them down! The sheer difference around here even from the 1960's to today is startling 'bare'!
Most New England communities had Tree Wardens and Tree Surgeons by the mid 1950's and Arbor Day was a day celebrated across the country. Today, they celebrate "Earth Day" hiking a local trail while a tree removal company cuts down the 300 year old Sugar Maples on their tree belt, while they decry the loss of our "Environment"! Unbelievable.
My 5 acres in SE PA has remnants of stone walls in the woods all around me. Twp tarred & chipped are gravel road in early 1990's to much traffic now
It's really sad how fast a tar road ruins a tranquil rural environment!
One tree that isn’t growing back is the American chestnut and the American elm. Actually that is 2 trees.
Chestnut are surviving by stump sprouts and they are actually planting hybrids so good news. Elm are still around but not the massive ones that lined our Northeast streets 100 years ago. Beech and Hemlock are the ones under the gun now. Videos to follow! (And thanks for watching and commenting)
Pretty sure walnut is struggling as well. I remember those nasty chestnuts in backyards all over the place as a kid in Brockton,MA.. I'd heard recently that the
blight that wiped out the chestnuts is still around, or was it a beetle? The red
birch seems to always struggle as well...Interesting factoid; The natives knew
a certain healing mushroom or moss would grow on decaying red birches. During the civil war and other wars, troops would always try to make camps in groves of these birches for their wounded. It was believed that just being around them promoted healing ...
@@lukula2934 I've also heard that. Birch root and bark was considered a major healing herb!! Winslow Homer's Birch Swing painting, done just after he came back from the war shows two children swinging..or bouncing...on a birch...one in blue and the other in homespun. I've always interpreted it as a painting about National Healing!
@@FishingHistoricPlaces Wow...Need to check that painting out. Thanks.
When I built my house in the catskills in the early 1990s, one of the guys working on it who was in his 50s or 60s, pointed to the densly wooded mountain behind my home which is 3400 feet tall. He said when he was a kid there was only one large tree on the top of the mountain. And they didn't call the mountain by it's USGS name. They called it "sheep's pen" because it was all sheep pasture.
It's wild how crazy Sheep Mania got...they cleared land hardly anyone had ever explored!
@FishingHistoricPlaces that was a great video, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Farming sheep, and building stone walls in sheep country is a centuries old farming practice in Northern England, Wales, and the English/ Scottish border lands.
It sure is...and the Northeast resembled that Hedge and Down countryside 150 years ago. Most people have no idea! Thanks for adding to the conversation!
I lived in Vermont 5 yrs. I was shocked at the industry up there. Clear cut 100 acres of hardwood. Takes 100 years to recover. Woods that were half recovered were ugly.
My uncle drove the bus for the CCC workers in Stowe,Vermont back in the day.
My Dad has many Depression stories...
Adjacent to my property in Maine 900+ acres was clear cut, roads built, stumps excavated and land bulldozed for a solar project and power transmission line. I’ll not see it, but one day perhaps it’ll revert to forest again when the current climate hysteria is just another memory.
Thanks for sharing! We are seeing another...slow but steady clearance... happening before our eyes...and of course...most of us won't notice...the PROGRESS... As aluminum and glass replaces our White Pine and Maple!
Thanks to banks
I see a value in solar. But I also see a lot of walmart roofs or parking lots the panels could be above. Rather than losing farmland or forest for it.
@@brockwaymt that's my entire point
Climate hysteria? The earth is getting warmer, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
There were mass clearings prior to the colonies as well.
Yes there were. The Native People used slash and burn farming...and fire isn't very discriminating.
Solar leaves a lot to be desired, but I think of it like the evolution of transportation from horse and wagons, to trains, to early cars that were ugly looking and produced a lot of smoke and leaked a lot of fluids. It's technology in progress and I'm hoping as it improves, it's less noticeable and leaves a smaller footprint.
I agree. It will get less impactful as the tech improves...but didn't you, like I, think that these arrays were going along highways and waste areas (Superfund sites in cities)? They sold us a bill of goods that we gladly went along with but their legislation was written to allow Solar Industry abuse using public funds to subsidize what is becoming another forest clearance. I hope the tech improves quickly because demand for electricity isn't going away. Thanks for watching and adding to the discussion. And I agree with your point...
@@FishingHistoricPlaces No, I definitely agree. If you define the scope of the projects that way, then you need to honor that agreement with the public. Overreach is a problem in this instance and damages the trust that we have with government and the industry. Thank you for documenting that, because I think a lot of this goes unnoticed.
@@paulfarley9365 I'm going to do a focused video on it across the summer and into fall so it's more clear to viewers. There's still time to get State legislators to make some honest changes to contain the mission creep.
Thanks, you seem very knowledgeable about the area. Are you a local?
Sure am. Lifelong Western Mass...the accent, the dislike of Boston...are you from the area?
@@FishingHistoricPlaces Yup, Sutton, south of Worcesta.
@@ernestkooistra1559 I have fished waters in Sutton. Beautiful town, great stonewalls and drumlins too!
Interesting video. I live in southeastern Massachusetts and most of the mature trees "in the woods" in my area are around 100 years old (count the rings after cut down). I am close to a few larger cities so I had always assumed they continued to hay the fields for horses until cars took over in the 1920s. After cars took over, there was no reason to tend the fields and thus the trees were allowed to grow in. Any thoughts on this theory?
Out where you are, market gardening and hay making would have definitely had a larger role in the agricultural economy than West of 495. You'd certainly resemble half of a Von Thunen bullseye in the area around Boston, probably overlapping with Salem, Framingham, Concord which would mean you'd have woodlots too...though they were certainly bringing in firewood and coal by sea. They needed to keep dairy close to urban nodes because it spoiled so easily right through the automobile. I should have mentioned Von Thunen in the video... maybe another is in order because his theory (taking into account topography) works pretty well. Check it out . en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Heinrich_von_Th%C3%BCnen I think your on the right track for sure. Let me know what you think of the Von Thunen model please...and thanks for watching!
I have not seen the Von Thunen model before - very interesting. I have lived in the same town since the 1960s in SE MA. There were still several local dairy farms and some market gardening still ongoing when I was a kid. The area is all suburbs and woods now. The rock walls in the area still had remnants of wood fences on top of them with barbed wire in some places when I was a kid - all rotted and gone now. I guess the land was perhaps mostly for grazing dairy up until the early 1900s? Even if not used for active grazing, for harvesting hay to support the local dairies? Strange, I don't know where my milk comes from now as I buy it a Walmart! Thanks for the very informative video and response.
@@markhousman8447 absolutely my pleasure! Our stories are very similar. We are both living in a PUZZLE that we are trying to reconstruct... because we actually care about the past and our own regions unique history! Many of the questions we ask haven't even been tackled by any FORMAL history yet...and we are making patchwork quilts out of the information and sources available. It's frustrating and fun at the same time...and knowing others care about the battle gives us both inspiration I'm sure! Hope to hear from you again!
Thank you. Very interesting. How long does it take for a forest to completely re- grow. On Long Island there are a few spots, mostly in areas occupied for the last 125 years by estates of the wealthy, that have breathtaking trees that seem to be from another world. These trees seem older than 125 years but it is hard to believe that they are from the original forest. Do you have any idea where they came from? Are you a teacher?
"Completely" is a difficult word. I'm doing a video right now on how fast a field goes "feral" and becomes a young forest...which I'll tell you, depending on the trees, can be less than 30 years, but we'd have to call that a young or first stage forest. A "completely" regrown forest would have multiple levels in the canopy and glades where large trees have fallen allowing another burst of sun and small scale regrowth. This would take hundreds of years...but to us ... walking in a wooded area says FOREST so few would split hairs like that. Thanks for watching!! Long Island, especially out East must have some very interesting regrowth going on. I plan on getting out their and poking around this fall. I usually only see it from the ocean and...btw ...how about Plum Island, off Orient Point! It was Fort Terry back in WW2 and since, has regrown in most places. I've heard the State of NY is buying the property to leave "Forever Wild" as a ecology site. Wouldn't that be a great multi-year, multi-century study!
And, yes. I've been teaching in the same district in Western Massachusetts for 35+ years. History and Science. Those massive trees on the estates CAN be from the original forest. The big estate owners would have left shade trees during their development AND some of these might have been pasture trees (farmers like to leave a few trees to shade their livestock)...so seriously, they may be relics of the time of the Montauk or Shinnecock!
@@FishingHistoricPlaces I will go back to the places I mentioned and confirm my impressions. If I am correct, I will send you directions. I am, however, referring to the so called Gold Coast (the northernmost five or six miles of Nassau County). The latest Goggle Earth would useful. It is so upgraded that I can clearly see chairs on my lawn. What is Americas biggest man made crop aside from timber. It’s not soybeans, or corn or grain! It’s grass, ornamental grass covers 100,000 square miles (I may be off a bit), I am a lawyer.
@@KR72534 wow! I believe it. In Southwick we had a massive grass or turf farm called Tuckahoe Turf, now out of business. On an old lake bed covering square miles!
And I thank you for sharing and adding so much to our discussion!!
great video but i wish u had a better mic
Thanks. Me too.
Seems like in the NE you can’t stop stuff from growing. The west is different due to rainfall (lower rates). I always think of those forests as Elmer Fudd territory.
Totally. I have his voice rattling around in my head when I'm in them.....Kill da wabbit, kill da wabbit...wascally wabbit!! And you bet...if you don't mow a field, it's a forest in under 10 years!
Isn't it weird?
On the East coast, we have so many trees of medium size, and at least in the more favorable West coast forests, they have more giant's, that reach great heights and volume.
Apparently the East and upper Midwest had some impressive large hardwoods, and tall White pine.
I've read that Maine is the most forested state in the US.
@@richtomlinson7090 Maine is certainly heavily forested from my experience...but the Adirondacks in NY is healthier, and probably older. Maine has been worked hard for timber. I'm going to be doing a video on White Pine in the next few months and more on the clearances as well. Thanks for watching!
Fascinating! And I ALWAYS wondered why there were stone walls in such crazy places; now I know it is because of sheep!
Seriously. For years I would say...what kind of crops were they growing on the side of this hill!! I'm going to do some more thorough vids on our stonewalls, their types and history soon. Thanks for watching!
Sheep can easily jump over the rock walls. Those walls were built for an unknown reason.
@@terrencegibbons3351 ahhh....aliens? The walls were built to contain Merino Sheep. It is documented. They are now in a ruined state. Some had wooden rails above them to keep the little beauties from roaming. We are talking about thousands of miles of walls...built all over central New England...in the 1810's-1850's....in the most settled part of U.S. This is heavily documented history.
@@terrencegibbons3351 We aren't talking about walls built 5000 years ago when people didn't know how to read and write. We know exactly why New England walls were built. Some were certainly property boundaries, but the idea that thousand of miles of walls were built "for an unknown reason" is wrong.
EricTheCarGuy's long lost twin brother!
Poor guy!
Most of the solar I see going up in western CT and the Hudson Valley is on unused pastures. While this prevents these fields from reverting to forest, they’re not cutting existing woodlands for solar farms.
Out here in WM...they have gotten into the Berkshire Hills... cutting acres to put up solar. We thought they were going to use the sides of highways or Superfund sites in cities... I never expected fields, pastures or forests...
@@FishingHistoricPlaces Where? Exactly. Who is cutting down forests to install solar panel arrays? Be specific.
@@irtnyc where are you from? Do you have Google Earth access? Do you want coordinates? In Western Massachusetts I know of SEVERAL spots where this has occurred and showed one at the end of the video you just watched. I'll be making another specific to the topic...so you can see more...but have you heard of Otis, Blandford, Tolland or Sandisfield? Those are a few towns here where it's already happened. Private land owners allowing forests to be destroyed (and fields are an even more threatened habitat in the Northeast if you know your ecology and I'm not even talking about that) for $$$.
When naturalist William Bartram travelled through Georgia, he said you could ride a horse through the woods, like an English countryside. In other words, the Indians were burning regularly, and keeping the brush down. They did the same thing in New England to improve the hunting. Also, the prairie extended east as far as Pennsylvania along Lake Erie, complete with buffalo herds. Again, the local indians burned the land to keep down brush and trees and keep the buffalo coming. British settlers found a man-made landscape when they arrived, complete with open fields to farm and parkland to hunt.
Absolutely. It's documented extensively and apparent in Archaeology. The hand of man has shaped the land since ...? The coming of the Native People 10-25-20-30,000 years ago... depending on when you date it.Thanks for watching!
Funny I think Walden pond was mostly treeless when Thoreau was there
There were a lot more fields...and the regrowing wood between Fairhaven Bay and Walden Pond burned in a forest fire started by....Henry!! Thoreau was quite a character!
My wife (who is a Putnam County New York native) has a cousin from The Jersey Shore who remarked to her one day on a visit how amazed she was with the “natural” stone walls crisscrossing all over New York and New England. She didn’t realize they were man made! 😆
They are so embedded in the environment they do seem natural... especially when they have 100 year old trees growing out of them in places.
@@FishingHistoricPlaces that’s true. I guess it is something taken for granted for those of us who grew up in the woods of Southern New England and Eastern New York.
What about the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast forests? What were they loke 400 years ago?
While those regions aren't necessarily in my own wheelhouse...the Laurentide Ice maybe got as far South as Maryland-Northern Va. The forest above the terminal moraine would be nearly the same. The area of the Southeast below that would have been similar to the Northeastern Woodlands 400 years ago showing the great influence of FIRE in the environment with great fields in various stages of regrowth, interspersed with a more open Woodland probably having groves and pockets of monocultures. This is my speculation. I know there are a few other channels on UA-cam that deal with those forests. A search might be in order.
solar panels put more heat in the air.
Yep ...and they are all created...from the mining to the final product...with fossil fuel.
The whaling industry consumed huge amounts of timber for ships and for the rendering kettles that would burn 24 hours at a time. Add to that pressure migration that began in the 1600s and continues to this day created a persistent demand for timber for housing and heating. It's a wonder we have any forests at all.
Well said. The constant churning and transforming US economy is hard to predict and regulate. The Solar Craze in the Northeast is just one example of it's unintended consequences today. I am going to do a focused vid on each of the clearances this year and your notation of whaling-i.e. shipbuilding and the maritime connection to the landscape is a great add.
@FishingHistoricPlaces FYI. My sister's used to pick tobacco for CCC as a summer job and I picked cukes for the Swazlowski family.
There is a difference between horse logging and a feller buncher clear cut.
There sure is, but out here Feller Bunchers are quite restricted on log lots and selective harvest is the norm. In the days of horse logging, no regulations led to areas being worked into stump fields. Only extreme terrain prevented loggers from taking everything of value which is why the State of NY woke up to the danger of full deforestation and created the massive Adirondack Park to try to preserve their forest legacy. The logging then was all horse logging, generally done in the winter, with the rivers complete with holding reservoirs used for the great log drives. I worked at a lumber mill back in the 80's whose owner was horse logging at the end of the box board clearance after WW2. Now they typically make pallets.
I am a large forest in New England and when I walk my forest I see endless walls so I assume it was clear cut back in the day. I have no plan to log my land and neither do my kids. They know and respect my wishes. Don’t worry the largest land owner in my area is a logger so he is always cutting trees and opening the forest.
Wasn't aware of the Merino craze or the Native's penchant for burning large areas of
forest...What was the purpose of this? Was it just to clear land or perhaps regenerate
the grasses for their animals? So much of even recent history has been lost...kind of sad.
I suspect the harsh winters had as much to do with major alterations in societal trends
as any other factor. There must have been a fairly constant diaspora over the last few centuries.
Check out the earlier video I've linked. It covers the Native People's penchant for burning the forest back creating sweeping fields and areas of regrowth. Winters were more r severe then for sure and probably the weather as a whole. Native Americans had NO domesticated animals beyond dogs in most of North America and only llama, guinea pig and alpaca in South America. The clearances were generally about farming and opening up the forest environment for hunting... although that may have been indidenral. Thanks for watching and adding to the conversation...and check out the linked video.
The SNE forests were cleared 3 - 4 times and they grew back. Imagine that!
Originally by the Native People...
Oh? How dare they! 😆
My wife’s uncle is a retired forester for the state of New York. He managed the forests up in the Catskills for some of the same reasons as the American aboriginals did. He lives on an old farm, all but about two acres of which have bee reclaimed by the forest.
We love going up to visit because he tells us all about the geography, flora, fauna and history of the area. We find all sorts of pieces of old farming equipment and tack in his woods. My kids love exploring the rock walls looking for fossils of small, ancient, sea creatures. It is a great first hand history experience.
@@keithmccormack6248 that's awesome. I love NY ...just like the Slogan from the 80's and 90's....
@@FishingHistoricPlaceshaha yeah! I remember that slogan! I don’t know if you have been all the way down I84 to NY state, right at the borderline there on the median is the old I❤️NY logo.
@@keithmccormack6248 I've done it ..to Matamoros and Port Jervis...it's an old one!
I read about the Hurricane of 1938 knocking down a large number of trees throughout New England. And the US Military harvested the fallen timber, storing a tremendous amount of beams and boards as a contingency for World War 2. Does this qualify as a forest clearing event?
The Hurricane of 1938 occurred near the end of the Boxboard clearance...and while it has a major impact on Western New England forests in my mind doesn't rank as one on its own. There were two similar Hurricanes that had significant forest impact, 1635 and 1815 ...the first at the near end of the Native Clearance and the 2nd at the start of Sheep Fever. The 1815 Great N.E. Hurricane certainly helped that clearance. These natural events including 38 were part of, but not clearances on their own as I'm talking in the video about human-environment interaction. Great add...and you can still find pillows and cradles marking the blow downs caused by the '38 storm in Western New England. Thanks for watching!
The Hurricane of 1938 occurred near the end of the Boxboard clearance...and while it has a major impact on Western New England forests in my mind doesn't rank as one on its own. There were two similar Hurricanes that had significant forest impact, 1635 and 1815 ...the first at the near end of the Native Clearance and the 2nd at the start of Sheep Fever. The 1815 Great N.E. Hurricane certainly helped that clearance. These natural events including 38 were part of, but not clearances on their own as I'm talking in the video about human-environment interaction. Great add...and you can still find pillows and cradles marking the blow downs caused by the '38 storm in Western New England. Thanks for watching!
You might also point out that American forests were mostly burned just for the ash.
Industry demanded ash for chemical processes that affected everything.
Most modern people know so very little about anything that really matters.
Look up the history of Potash exports from North American Forests.
Charcoal burning was huge!! I forgot to mention it when I was doing the first clearance. It's tough just rambling and jibbering like I do...to get it all. I am going to do three companion vids... shooting now ..and I'll certainly mention it! They won't be out until this fall.
And thanks for the add...to the conversation!!
@@FishingHistoricPlaces Thank you for the beautiful vid and all the research you put into it, made me miss home so bad.
@@google_is_a_criminal my pleasure! Don't be a stranger!!
Where I live there are so many cellar holes and long forgotten burial grounds that as kids we came across! BTW the Wampanoag People still live here..I live next door to them I call them my neighbors.Many of the stone walls were taken away for the Civil war. The solar farm are destroying 10's of thousands of wildlife habitat!!!
I've gotta get out your way more and will soon as I'm doing a series on King Philips War. Great history and Natural History out there and I really wish more people saw the danger solar farms pose. Thanks for reaching out!
What do you mean when you say that stone walls were taken away?
@@KR72534 I never said they were taken away although a commenter said it happened during the depression. Many have been used as small scale quarries and with the wealthy New Yorker buying up old homesteads all over Western New England but especially in the Berkshires, and then determining that they NEED a dry stone wall you can imagine the results. I have a friend that builds dry stone walls and he gets his material from quarries but don't think he is the norm. I have seen several easily accessible stone walls disappear in the last decade...hmmm....
Where did you learn all this history?
I've been teaching it for 37 years, reenacting, doing Living History and presentations, and just learning...in addition to coaching and all the other things you do in a High School. As a Fisherman and Hunter, I've looked, wondered and investigated ...and I don't have all the answer believe me...but I'm sharing what I have because History matters...and as time passes...all kinds of odd speculation gets tossed around... there's some of it here in the form of comment.
I see, I see. I have a BA in History, but never pursued a career in it. The interest is still there though-especially for local history. I’ve studied a lot of American history, World history, Ancient to Modern European history, but I have found that local history is never even touched upon. It’s a shame because local history gives people a stronger sense of and respect for the place in which they live, the way things were and where they are going. Would you agree?
@@keithmccormack6248 it's one of the greatest tragedies of the State of Massachusetts takeover of K-12 education...State Standards in Massachusetts don't even include a History of Massachusetts component, never mind local history. As teachers , not from the community they teach in, struggle with these standards, they have no skin in the game concerning preserving the history of a locality. All over the region, the only groups keeping local history alive are our tiny local historical societies filled with Seniors looking for something to do, often not even interested in history. Then there is the Historical flavor of the month syndrome... making it passe to be about simply preserving the awesome little pieces of history each community has, but instead sublimating it in an effort to find a connection to ....put it this way. In the 19th and early 20th Century every community on the Eastern Seaboard wanted to tie in to Washington or the American Revolution...which meant that so many other events of the various communities Histories were ignored in favor of highlighting a Revolution Connection...or in some places ..a War Between the States Connection. Now...the local historical societies are all about the history of what they believe are the "marginalized" groups in their communities...
@@FishingHistoricPlacesIndeed! Your students are very fortunate to have you as a teacher. I hope they have an appreciation for your knowledge of history and what you do for them.
@@keithmccormack6248 I have a great connection with them still, which is why I'm still in the game despite Mass Teacher Retirement. Kids are the same as they ever were, and when you learn to sell it ...you got em. We have kids from all over the world in my district...46 different languages...firmer Soviet Republics, all over the Middle East, South and East Asia. I learn from them every day! Which I guess is the secret...and some even watch the channel...and thanks for your kind words and insights!! We travel similar paths ...out into central NY...it's a beautiful region!;
Solar panel farms and amazons popping up everywhere in Massachusetts
Disheartening.
Disheartening.