I forget when or why I started following you but dude, you have a solid future. You explain everything, that is what everyone wants, you keep everyone watching engaged. Great stuff
Yeah this is like Advanced Squad Leader for PC... it's its own special beast, beloved by old grognards but indecipherable to mere mortals (including me.) You either give in to the system or, don't. Believe me I feel your pain! ☺
I hear the frustration in your commentary; from what I have seen so far this game is a faithful port of the board games Squad Leader/Advanced Squad Leader, for what has been implemented so far. There are a lot of nuances in playing Squad Leader and its presentation. Back in the day there were a lot of guys that liked it and a lot that didn't. I haven't read the rule book yet but it might be worth reading it and for context there are UA-camrs that play ASL; maybe watch how the board game is played to gain an understanding of why things happen as they do.
I hope I don't sound frustrated because that would be terrible to watch. I was trying to be objective and explain my plays at thoughts. There are a lot of RNG mechanics that are unpleasant and I need to state this but I do have fun playing the game at times. I don't really have an interest in looking up ASL but I am sure that I would enjoy it. The game does over do it on some of the RNG and some of the scenarios take too long. In my opinion those are all valid criticisms. I do get frustrated when I am force to "restart" turn 6 due to a toughen and reload mechanic.
The game has very similar mechanics as ASL. Dont let graphics confuse people, this is a very deep technical strategy game. Every move is important and needs to be thought out. If you move any any fashion you will get 1/2 atk value. Running gives you even worse modifiers. Moving in the open can be very dangerous. In regards to toughen, the squad automatically recovers from broken and levels up (so to speak). I had an AT gun go on a reload tear and get several critical hits on my squads, annihilating them and starting s fire in the trees. Then that fire spread out to other trees, causing drifting smoke. Lots of mechanics in this game
Yeah, I reviewed the manual after this playthrough so I could confirm the mechanics. The game does have a lot of depth, but that depth also brings a lot of punishment for the player. An example is the ability to rally enemy squads.
I didn't find any strategy here at all. The rng is just so out of whack. Either you get one super-lucky shot which wins you the scenario after a countless of sub-5% rolls, or you won't get it and the routed enemies just come back to life turning the game into boring stalemate. In games like XCom the rng was fully manageable by planning ahead, but in this game it is just no-brainer potshots after another hoping you get lucky. Glorified lottery.
@Terry Lynn I think you are right in some aspects of the game but wrong in others. The game does have strategic depth, but it is dependent on RNG. The AI can be fairly frustrating as it moves in and out of LOS and the games do turn into a stalemate when the rng is being bad. The breakthrough moments are when the rng works and your strategy comes together. VP objectives are too low in my opinion and they force the player to rush. When the rng is bad those time constraints make the game feel unfair.
Second Front is a good game to cleanse your pallet, but it is not a "tactical" wargame like CM. SF is tactical in scale but not in mechanics. However, I am not the overlord of the word tactical, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
I have Memoir’44 and I have described it as “ASL meets Axis & Allies” - that is to say: a super-simple version of ASL that uses miniatures. It’s very fun. That being said, there is really no further comparison between ASL(or Second Front) and Memoir’44… the level of tactical complexity between those two systems is just not in the same galaxy… nor was it ever intended to be!
@@errantknight-f2z I have not played Memoir or ASL, so my only reference is Valor & and Victory, and V&V really shines in PVP matches but it is also really jarring for new players because of how fast you can lose a game or force. Second Front is more forgiving but at a cost of slower gameplay. The game shines when you get fun "breakthrough" moments, but due to RNG those moments are short-lived.
well, it is a recreation of a board game that, like many others, was quite RNG heavy. If you don't expect something like that you probably are going to get frustrated, and i understand that. I don't wanna say "lol skill issue lmao", however you can play within the confines of this system and succeed if you get used to it/play enough, and go in with the right mindset. The RNG didn't infuriate me most of the time, but i get that i can be a little bit annoying when the enemy bt-7 gets 10 million reloads and deletes your entire armored force. Thanks for the video!
A lot of people are mentioning ASL but this is honestly the first I heard of it being compared to Second Front. I don't remember really any marketing push calling it an ASL clone but hat is neither here nor there. I don't think I was every overly angry due to RNG but there are times where I can't help but roll my eyes at a few of the rolls I get. And I understand that mitigating the RNG is necessary to being successful at SF. There are times where your not so much playing a game as you are manipulating the mechanics because it is either that or RNG. I enjoy SF and I think I haven't been overly critical or harsh.
@@TacticsWithJoe If you look in the steam discussions its all anyone talks about. People are comparing it too much imo as the dev never stated its an ASL clone. However, it is very much so a digital boardgame with all the nonsense dice rolls that come with it. Definitely agree with your points on scenarios being a couple turns too long. I think the intention was to add some suspense and recon, but doing is so is sorta boring in a hex based game. Great vid also
@Kirk Young This scenario has the potential to be good but it is held back by size and scope. It really feels like a puzzle. I am enjoying second Front and I think I am being overly negative but time will tell.
I’m an ASL player and this is very similar. But the RNG is far more brutal in this game. Personally think once you learn what your squads can and cannot do you will enjoy the game. I’d of used your mortar to fire smoke in front of the German AA gun and then his ROF is irrelevant right? That would of allowed you a safer route to support the advancing unit you sent forward. ASL is an acquired taste which you can play with software and make it RNG too. But I’m old school and prefer manual gameplay. This game isn’t for me sadly. Hope you manage to master it and get many hours of fun from it.
Criticism is how we avoid rallying enemy squads and puzzle scenarios. it's also how we could have avoided 40+ minute 1-star scenarios. I am not even being critical of the game. Basically: Easy Scenarios are too long Overbalance creates puzzle gameplay Don't rally broken squads when they come under fire. 7 turns before seeing combat might be a bit much.
@@aanders1990 The game sold well and it has a fairly long life ahead of it. Take the feedback and move on. People criticize my videos everyday and the wargaming community is vocal. Some people write 3-5 paragraph research papers about how I am a dumbass that explain how every tactic I used was wrong. Do I get angry, only when I check that stuff at 7 a.m. when I first wake up. How did I fix it? I don't respond to comments until 10 a.m.
Im not defending the devs actions but everyone has spread this ban thing out of control. You'd think the devs have banned hundreds of people. They banned one person that I know of and im sure they regret it at this point considering the wild stigma that was instantly put on them. its a game have fun man
@Kirk Young The ban just seemed weird. The community is small and a little drama goes a long way. Nothing will ever be as bad as the Friday the 13th devs assault on their reddit community.
a game where you can't hit the target even if it's next to you apart from these unnecessarily stretched turns there should be a player and enemy turn ONE TURN for the player and the enemy and not some stupid phases that only irritate generally I'm disappointed I was hoping for something like panzer general or battle academic
I forget when or why I started following you but dude, you have a solid future. You explain everything, that is what everyone wants, you keep everyone watching engaged. Great stuff
Thank you for the kind words and I hope you enjoy the content.
Yes, he is very good at vocalizing his thought process! Good for learning.
This game is a direct application of Avalon Hills Squad Leader circa 1977.
Fun game
@@TacticsWithJoe Loved it...Played it over 12k hours in the USAF against buddies.
Yeah this is like Advanced Squad Leader for PC... it's its own special beast, beloved by old grognards but indecipherable to mere mortals (including me.) You either give in to the system or, don't. Believe me I feel your pain! ☺
I hear the frustration in your commentary; from what I have seen so far this game is a faithful port of the board games Squad Leader/Advanced Squad Leader, for what has been implemented so far. There are a lot of nuances in playing Squad Leader and its presentation. Back in the day there were a lot of guys that liked it and a lot that didn't. I haven't read the rule book yet but it might be worth reading it and for context there are UA-camrs that play ASL; maybe watch how the board game is played to gain an understanding of why things happen as they do.
I hope I don't sound frustrated because that would be terrible to watch. I was trying to be objective and explain my plays at thoughts. There are a lot of RNG mechanics that are unpleasant and I need to state this but I do have fun playing the game at times.
I don't really have an interest in looking up ASL but I am sure that I would enjoy it.
The game does over do it on some of the RNG and some of the scenarios take too long. In my opinion those are all valid criticisms.
I do get frustrated when I am force to "restart" turn 6 due to a toughen and reload mechanic.
@@TacticsWithJoe look at ASL academy you tube channel comparing this game to ASL. It's helpful
The game has very similar mechanics as ASL. Dont let graphics confuse people, this is a very deep technical strategy game. Every move is important and needs to be thought out. If you move any any fashion you will get 1/2 atk value. Running gives you even worse modifiers. Moving in the open can be very dangerous. In regards to toughen, the squad automatically recovers from broken and levels up (so to speak). I had an AT gun go on a reload tear and get several critical hits on my squads, annihilating them and starting s fire in the trees. Then that fire spread out to other trees, causing drifting smoke. Lots of mechanics in this game
Yeah, I reviewed the manual after this playthrough so I could confirm the mechanics. The game does have a lot of depth, but that depth also brings a lot of punishment for the player. An example is the ability to rally enemy squads.
@@TacticsWithJoe oh yeah it can be punishing and frustrating lol but yet rewarding when it goes your way lol
@@TacticsWithJoe This goes both ways - the AI can rally your units when shooting at them. Same with evrything else - it goes both ways.
I didn't find any strategy here at all. The rng is just so out of whack. Either you get one super-lucky shot which wins you the scenario after a countless of sub-5% rolls, or you won't get it and the routed enemies just come back to life turning the game into boring stalemate. In games like XCom the rng was fully manageable by planning ahead, but in this game it is just no-brainer potshots after another hoping you get lucky. Glorified lottery.
@Terry Lynn I think you are right in some aspects of the game but wrong in others. The game does have strategic depth, but it is dependent on RNG. The AI can be fairly frustrating as it moves in and out of LOS and the games do turn into a stalemate when the rng is being bad. The breakthrough moments are when the rng works and your strategy comes together. VP objectives are too low in my opinion and they force the player to rush. When the rng is bad those time constraints make the game feel unfair.
Think I'll stick to Combat Mission.
Second Front is a good game to cleanse your pallet, but it is not a "tactical" wargame like CM. SF is tactical in scale but not in mechanics. However, I am not the overlord of the word tactical, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
For me it's Close Combat. Predictable outcomes, what you see is what you get.
It seems to play a lot more like Memoir '44 rather than something like Panzer General 2.
It plays more like a mobile game than anything
Haven't played that one. That was a fairly simple board game correct? 🎲
I have Memoir’44 and I have described it as “ASL meets Axis & Allies” - that is to say: a super-simple version of ASL that uses miniatures. It’s very fun.
That being said, there is really no further comparison between ASL(or Second Front) and Memoir’44… the level of tactical complexity between those two systems is just not in the same galaxy… nor was it ever intended to be!
@@errantknight-f2z I have not played Memoir or ASL, so my only reference is Valor & and Victory, and V&V really shines in PVP matches but it is also really jarring for new players because of how fast you can lose a game or force.
Second Front is more forgiving but at a cost of slower gameplay. The game shines when you get fun "breakthrough" moments, but due to RNG those moments are short-lived.
Memoir is much, much more simplified. And that game is actually fun and fast playing, unlike this game.
well, it is a recreation of a board game that, like many others, was quite RNG heavy. If you don't expect something like that you probably are going to get frustrated, and i understand that. I don't wanna say "lol skill issue lmao", however you can play within the confines of this system and succeed if you get used to it/play enough, and go in with the right mindset. The RNG didn't infuriate me most of the time, but i get that i can be a little bit annoying when the enemy bt-7 gets 10 million reloads and deletes your entire armored force. Thanks for the video!
A lot of people are mentioning ASL but this is honestly the first I heard of it being compared to Second Front. I don't remember really any marketing push calling it an ASL clone but hat is neither here nor there.
I don't think I was every overly angry due to RNG but there are times where I can't help but roll my eyes at a few of the rolls I get. And I understand that mitigating the RNG is necessary to being successful at SF. There are times where your not so much playing a game as you are manipulating the mechanics because it is either that or RNG.
I enjoy SF and I think I haven't been overly critical or harsh.
@@TacticsWithJoe If you look in the steam discussions its all anyone talks about. People are comparing it too much imo as the dev never stated its an ASL clone. However, it is very much so a digital boardgame with all the nonsense dice rolls that come with it. Definitely agree with your points on scenarios being a couple turns too long. I think the intention was to add some suspense and recon, but doing is so is sorta boring in a hex based game. Great vid also
@Kirk Young This scenario has the potential to be good but it is held back by size and scope. It really feels like a puzzle. I am enjoying second Front and I think I am being overly negative but time will tell.
@@TacticsWithJoe honestly don't think you were overly negative in the video
I’m an ASL player and this is very similar. But the RNG is far more brutal in this game. Personally think once you learn what your squads can and cannot do you will enjoy the game. I’d of used your mortar to fire smoke in front of the German AA gun and then his ROF is irrelevant right? That would of allowed you a safer route to support the advancing unit you sent forward. ASL is an acquired taste which you can play with software and make it RNG too. But I’m old school and prefer manual gameplay. This game isn’t for me sadly. Hope you manage to master it and get many hours of fun from it.
What the fuck is the point of being given a mortar if you need line of sight to use it?
Direct fire monsters
Yeah these intro scenarios are pretty bad, wonder what the thought process was
Fail to introduce the player to the mechanics. They focused on difficulty instead of fun.
Don't get banned for posting this video!
Sorry, you've been banned from Second Front for this comment.
Criticism is how we avoid rallying enemy squads and puzzle scenarios. it's also how we could have avoided 40+ minute 1-star scenarios.
I am not even being critical of the game.
Basically:
Easy Scenarios are too long
Overbalance creates puzzle gameplay
Don't rally broken squads when they come under fire.
7 turns before seeing combat might be a bit much.
@@aanders1990 The game sold well and it has a fairly long life ahead of it. Take the feedback and move on.
People criticize my videos everyday and the wargaming community is vocal. Some people write 3-5 paragraph research papers about how I am a dumbass that explain how every tactic I used was wrong.
Do I get angry, only when I check that stuff at 7 a.m. when I first wake up. How did I fix it? I don't respond to comments until 10 a.m.
Im not defending the devs actions but everyone has spread this ban thing out of control. You'd think the devs have banned hundreds of people. They banned one person that I know of and im sure they regret it at this point considering the wild stigma that was instantly put on them. its a game have fun man
@Kirk Young The ban just seemed weird. The community is small and a little drama goes a long way. Nothing will ever be as bad as the Friday the 13th devs assault on their reddit community.
a game where you can't hit the target even if it's next to you
apart from these unnecessarily stretched turns there should be a player and enemy turn ONE TURN for the player and the enemy and not some stupid phases that only irritate
generally I'm disappointed I was hoping for something like panzer general or battle academic