What Is the Priesthood?
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- uncorrelatedmormonism.com/wha...
In Mormonism, there is probably nothing more confusing than the concept of priesthood. In the church we talk about keys, authority, and power all under the general concept of priesthood which makes discussions about the priesthood itself rather confusing. Scripturally, it does appear there is a priesthood of sorts however it seems to be a bit different from the LDS concept we actually call priesthood.
00:00 Introduction
00:31 LDS View
02:58 Keys
10:57 Authority
17:18 Orders of the Priesthood
22:48 Conclusion
This is the best and most concise explanation of LDS priesthood predicament I have seen yet! I'm going to be referring others here in the future. Thanks, Patrick!
Thank you. You are always so nice.
The priesthood does appear to exist, however it is clear that the LDS church doesn't have the full priesthood that they claim. Keys also don't mean control and preside. This is not how God works.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism absolutely the way I understand it. And also, it seems, extremely consistent with a just and loving God. And you bring the receipts here, which is awesome.
With all of the shenanigans that went on with Brigham and the other early Utah apostles and presidents of the church, do we even have the aaronic or patriarchal priesthood? Does the LDS church have any authority? Do I have any authority?
I firmly believe in the Book of Mormon and Joseph as a prophet, but it does appear things went awry. Are we just in a waiting game? Is there any reason to try to remain in the church?
These are the things I'm trying to figure out. So much of what we do in the church is not scriptural. Although, according to Elder Hanynie, scripture apparently doesn't matter to the church anymore.
I agree with you. I think there is something special about the LDS church, however I am not sure if we even have any valid priesthood anymore. We also know the church is going to be cleaned or reset or whatever you want to call it.
Things are seriously messed up right now that I really am just waiting for whatever happens to happen. Right now I don't feel any special reason to be a member, but I really don't know where else to go. If my wife was onboard I would just do church at home or with some like-minded friends. Attending church with a bunch of "follow the prophet" people just is not very exciting to me.
One this is absolutely clear to me, the LDS church does not have the Melchizedek Priesthood like they claim. Either they are wrong about this or the scriptures are wrong about the Melchizedek Priesthood. They both can't be true.
I hear you. It's difficult to find goodfellowship at church these days. It's also difficult knowing that I hold beliefs that could easily get me disfellowshipped or excommunicated. Feels like I have to hide part of myself.
My assumption is that there's going to need to be another restoration of sorts. We may or may not have the aaronic priesthood, but it seems pretty evident that we do not have the melchizedek priesthood.
Pretty much everything in the temple I believe is potentially unnecessary. There's the possibility that baptisms for dead make sense since it is mentioned in second Corinthians in passing and Paul doesn't condemn it.
Garments seem to be a made-up thing as well.
However, there's so much goodness in the Book of Mormon, the New Testament, the Lectures on Faith, and parts of the Doctrine Covenants (1835).
While it has been difficult transitioning my beliefs, it has been eye opening and I found myself focusing on Christ more and more since 2020. I have really learned so much about what God requires of us. Everything is so much simpler than we have made it.
I appreciate your videos and you.
@@aaronsawyer5538 Most of what we believe in the LDS church is probably made up partially or completely. We are essentially modern-day Pharisees and have complicated things because then we can control them.
Essentially we need a reset to the Kirtland church.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism, I agree. Last year when my family was studying the New Testament that became abundantly clear. We really are modern-day Pharisees.
Also, joseph still holds the keys. They can only be given by God, and none of the other presidents of the corporation have been given any such knowledge/keys.
Yes. Joseph was told he would always have the keys. I believe he will return in some form and continue the work.
I've come to see/understand "keys" having to do with wisdom/knowledge, not authority.
Keys seem to be knowledge not a right to direct as the LDS church claims. This LDS concept is so strange because how can you direct God.
If you don't hold keys, you can't open the doors that they open, which means you don't have the authority to do so.
Jesus has the key to hell and death, meaning he has the authority to redeem and resurrect. If you don't hold the keys, you're not authorized.
See Revelation 1:18.
@@MarkHigbee Jesus holds the key of knowledge since he has conquered death and hell. He knows how to do it and knows that it is possible.
@uncorrelatedmormonism
From the scriptures, it's clear that keys are not just knowledge. Keys open doors to knowledge and give authority to do things like open the bottomless pit, or bind contacts in heaven and on earth. Without the keys or authority, you can't open the doors to the bottomless pit or bind things in heaven.
(Rev 9:1-2) And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
(Matt 16:19) And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
I would greatly enjoy it if you made a video breaking down the history of the King Follett Sermon and Joseph's beliefs surrounding deification.
Yes I just had a discussion with someone about that. I think that is next on my list.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Awesome
Lots of good thoughts. For some reason I missed your reference to the claim that Joseph said the Melkizadek Preisthood was gone?
It was in his Aug 27th, 1843 discourse. He said the highest in the church was Patriarchal (Not Melchizedek). This also aligns with many other things in the church. The church achieved its highest levels in Kirtland and then had a steady decline until Joseph's death.
www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1838-1856-volume-e-1-1-july-1843-30-april-1844/80
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Thanks. Will take a look.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism I read the first page. What is clear is that the Melkizadek Priesthood is by Oath and Covenant. The LDS version requires neither! This is proof that they do not have it.
@@ryun3307 Yes. There is no way that I have the same priesthood as Moses or Abraham even if it is in name only.
Let me start out with this. Priesthood authority is authority to serve, not rule. The only job that the president has that comes anywhere close to governance is to assign fields of labor. In the kingdom of God, we are all equal and God desires that we be self governing. A true servant of God teaches the commandments and sayings of Jesus, baptizes, gives the gift of the Holy Ghost, heals the sick, casts out demons, etc. and let's the people govern themselves. That being said, let me give you another way of looking at priesthood. Priesthood has much to do with the power or energy of God. The energy of God fills the universe. There are many levels of energy. One level of energy we are familiar with is electrical energy, so I am going to use this comparison. We are surrounded by electrical energy, but it is so widely dispersed that unless we have some way to focus it or harness it, we cannot use it. To focus or harness electricity we use different types of power plants. Those power plants produce too much power to hook up directly to the house, so it has to be diverted and transformed to lower voltages before it is safe to enter into a home. There are also safety switches that protect against power surges. Now, the same thing exists at the higher level of spiritual power. The power at the level of energy where God dwells is too great to give a child when he is born. For one to have the power at the highest level he has to grow into it. Everybody who is born into this level of existence has a connection to God through the Holy Ghost. The power of God we are born with is enough to get us to adulthood and decades longer but it is not enough energy for one to become immortal. The first booth to the energy of God comes by obtaining another connection through the holy ghost. The next boost of energy that a man can receive is the power of the Son of God. Those who have this level of energy, are organized in what we call priesthood, which is the authority to serve others with the energy we have. This comes in two stages, The first stage is to serve in temporal things, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, giving shelter to the homeless. visiting the sick, etc. It is called the Levitical or Aaronic priesthood. The second stage is to serve in spiritual things, preaching the gospel, baptizing, giving the gift of the holy ghost, healing the sick, casting out demons, and doing other types of miracles. Having this level of energy is enough for one to become immortal, if he will work out a personal relationship with Jesus by keeping all the commandments and sayings of Jesus and living by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. That level of priesthood is called the Melchizedek priesthood out of respect for the name of the son of God. The highest level of power is the power of the Father. This is a level of energy that allows one to abide at the highest level of energy and to enter into the throne room of God. This level of energy is called patriarchal because it is the power to be fathers forever. What are the keys to the priesthood? They are the switches that make connections and turn on the power. The one who has the keys of the kingdom is the on who has the switch to give energy to everybody. There is only one person on the earth at a time that has that switch. Joseph Smith was the one to have the switch. He did not pass on the switch to anybody in his life time and I can tell you this for certain, the president of the LDS church does not have the keys of the kingdom.
I have read the terms Levitical and Melchizedek in connection to the Priesthood in the scriptures. But I have never read "the Evangelical Priesthood", nor have I read "the "Patriarchal Priesthood". Would LOVE..to read it wherever it may be ?
You have suggested that some have simplified the concept Priesthood to the point absurdity, and some have over complicated it thru a seemingly rigid code of obedience to so-called priesthood leadership. Question..What if the offices and orders are interconnected in the way they are suppose to work in Zion ?
You also have said that elder is not a high priest, suggesting that "elder" is not an office of the High or Melchizedek Priesthood (This goes against D&C 107:7 lds). You also said there's a travelling elder or apostle, and that such office is not one of the High or MP. Please clarify as much as possible.
The two locations I reference:
1. D&C 107:40-57
2. An August 27th, 1843 revelation: www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1838-1856-volume-e-1-1-july-1843-30-april-1844/80
I am not sure what you mean about Zion. If there is a true priesthood then it will be part of Zion absolutely. In Zion I believe religion/God will influence every aspect of life.
You are right about D&C 107:7. I am not sure what to make of that. In this case the MP may be a very broad term. I am not sure. Everything is technically under the MP. Joseph was an elder and an apostle before he even had the MP. I describe that here: ua-cam.com/video/-WJxeJ149V0/v-deo.html.
An apostle is supposed to be a travelling elder not an administrator. This got messed up along the way. There were supposed to be two models: In organized stake, and outside Stakes. The apostles were only supposed to govern outside of stakes. Stake presidents were responsible to First Presidency.
ua-cam.com/video/zp0tLnq5snU/v-deo.html
@@uncorrelatedmormonism
I do believe the Priesthood is a Patriarchal Order, unfortunately many do not. Scholars and even people claiming to have received revelation from God are now ever deluting this truth, or denying it altogether.
There are scriptures in the Book of Mormon that talk about priesthood authority held by the high priest over the church. The president of the church today is a high priest like Alma in the book of Mormon see D&C 107
(Mosiah 23:16-18) And now, Alma was their high priest, he being the founder of their church.
17 And it came to pass that none received authority to preach or to teach except it were by him from God. Therefore he consecrated all their priests and all their teachers; and none were consecrated except they were just men.
18 Therefore they did watch over their people, and did nourish them with things pertaining to righteousness.
(Mosiah 25:19-22) And it came to pass that king Mosiah granted unto Alma that he might establish churches throughout all the land of Zarahemla; and gave him power to ordain priests and teachers over every church.
20 Now this was done because there were so many people that they could not all be governed by one teacher; neither could they all hear the word of God in one assembly;
21 Therefore they did assemble themselves together in different bodies, being called churches; every church having their priests and their teachers, and every priest preaching the word according as it was delivered to him by the mouth of Alma.
22 And thus, notwithstanding there being many churches they were all one church, yea, even the church of God; for there was nothing preached in all the churches except it were repentance and faith in God.
Keys open doors, they open the doors to recieve ministering angels, the mysteries of God and the knowledge of God. Keys are not knowledge themselves but open doors to be able to receive knowledge.
(Isaiah 22:21-22) And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Covenants are eternal contracts and some have been given the authority to bind or unbind the contracts.
When people are sealed or receive a mark on their foreheads they are sealed to Jesus and become his children or eternal increase.
(D&C 77:11)
11 Q. What are we to understand by sealing the one hundred and forty-four thousand, out of all the tribes of Israel-twelve thousand out of every tribe?A. We are to understand that those who are sealed are high priests, ordained unto the holy order of God, to administer the everlasting gospel; for they are they who are ordained out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, by the angels to whom is given power over the nations of the earth, to bring as many as will come to the church of the Firstborn.
(Rev 7:2-3) And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
(2 Cor 1:21-22) 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
(Ephes 1: 13-14) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory
(Mosiah 5:15) Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.
I thought the Patriarchal priesthood was the highest? The priestood Adam held in the beginning, that will be restored in the end. Perhaps what is being called the Mel. P is really the levitical P?
It is possible. I think the Melchizedek is the highest as it is given by God directly and is essentially the power of God on earth. I don't think this authority can just be passed on to someone else automatically even if in name only.
Why is it you so strongly hold the lectures on faith, which were from 1835, as scripture, yet often view 1835 doctrine and covenants changes with skepticism? Can the lectures on faith not be held with that same skepticism, especially since it was a more of a theological creed than it was a direct revelation
Not to say it wasn’t inspired, just curious as to the thought process behind your personal views on it
I think it is because they so strongly correlate with everything else. I didn't reference the LoF here though I believe.
I think I would also need more specifics as to the "1835 doctrine and covenants changes" you mean. In general I agree with the 1835 D&C and probably most of the 1844 one. Joseph changed the Book of Mormon in 1837 for no apparent reason so I am not sure about that.
The Lectures probably are more of a theological treatise than scripture. However I feel they make perfect sense and agree with the Book of Mormon and Bible so well that I feel they are more than just a scholarly work.
A recent question I asked someone. If a leader brings forth a new thought/system/revelation that disagrees with everything previously then what should we do? What is the difference between a new "revelation" and just making things up? Of course the answer is "holy ghost" however what does this really mean when so many people use "holy ghost" to validate actions that are clearly detrimental in hind-sight.
Having keys to the kingdom or keys that can open hell and unlock death also suggest that one has authority to open the doors. So in the scriptures if you hold the keys to open doors it means you have the authority to do so. If you're not given the key to open hell and unlock death, you also don't have the authority to do so.
(Rev 1:18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Why could knowledge not also apply there? Knowledge that it is possible. Knowledge that God will allow you to.
What does God give you when you meet him. Knowledge that he exists. Knowledge that he is a certain way and knowledge that he is not a certain way.
Keys, as special abilities to unlock something, are just a made up concept to control people.
@uncorrelatedmormonism keys and knowledge are two separate things... even the devils have knowledge a son of perdition has knowledge, but if he is not given the keys, he is not authorized by God to use that knowledge.
Jesus was given the keys, or authorized to be the Savior of this world by the Father.
@@MarkHigbee there was never a point in time where Jesus did not have the keys. He is God, eternally God. Nobody gave him authority, Christ and the father are jointly in authority together.
@zrosix2240 I guess it depends on how you define time. At the foundation of this world, Jesus was given keys, or power over all flesh.
In John 17 Jesus explained he was given power over all flesh by the Father. This implies at some point he didn't have that power, it was given to him.
(John 17:1-3) These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
You are reading too much into this. Yes I agree that it is not the most clear thing. However if Jesus is God then the statement is completely true. A 2D shape was "given" its shape from the larger 3D while also being the 3D form.
Given here certainly doesn't mean or imply that Jesus never had it at some point.