You need to play on german servers when you Wann Team play the Even gona talk English with you and you have every game at least 3 sqauds where mic is aqauired play on ❤❤❤❤we live squad germany❤❤❤❤ something like that its calles the have 4 5 servers with god Importent rules but just go on at least 1 god german servers with mic needed trust me its something eles
LOL this kid is a boomer shooter and a simp XD , The ico is the best thing that's ever happened. Starcraft 2 terran Master top ten , and the ico id say is the only thing keeping any semblence of strategy in the game
What you describe is the PR experience doe. Wait in a queue, fiddle around till round ends, rush to join 1st mic inf squad etc. I’ve found once I get into a good squad at the beginning of round then Each game after is fine.
the thing is best squad you can get is max 4 people speaking and SL doesn't even mind if you have mic or not, got the sniper kit or you are alone or not. And these are the best ones you can find. Command squads, clan squads. Everyone plays the game but no one actually wants it. And omfg thst optimization
Youd have to have played in its heyday to understand. PR used to be more like Squad where no squad would accept you without a mic. The functioning insurgency mode is the main thing missing from Squad. Squads incredibly repetitive by comparison. Rush to build HAB, charge obj, die, respawn, repeat. INS was basically PRs realistic mode with AAS being its BF thing. In Squad its all BF clone game modes. No creativity. I also just preferred PRs gunplay system even though it was so dated. It rewarded you for good positioning and moving slow and punished for running around. The ICO is just punishment and nothing else. I always thought it was ironic as it was praised for nerfing high skill players but it did the opposite for us. Every match feels the same and it gets really stale as most players can barely aim and feel like bots.
I feel like this issue would be resolved if they made SL a more approachable position. After 200+ hours, I still do not dare to be an SL. Perhaps if they added better in-game tutorials, such as one that explained how to lead a squad, recommended tactics, and explained faction differences (such as how some factions get 2 HABS per FOB), it would make more players feel more comfortable taking up that role.
Summary: Shots 1-5: Clearly missed. Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control). Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses. Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because Slorgs was already dead.
Squad is the game where i had both my best ever, and worst ever first person shooter experience. When it's great, it's the best and most immersive thing in the world, with group of people communicating and cooperating with each other.... and then the next round you end up with people that just run and gun... then it becomes the worst...
I get alot of games where people don't look at their map after a push and go "oh maybe I should fall back to the point." and just keep pushing into... nothing... It's very rare to find a team that understands how to defend and how valuable it is to defend.
I mean thats kind of a problem every game has, if people are working together and playing the way its meant to be played its great, but there are always a lot of people that don't really care and just run around.
The beauty of squad being a huge mess is I’ve branched out to other games, especially single player, that i never would have played before. I beat Cyberpunk which was my first RPG ever. I relax in RDR2 and just got into XCom2 (so hard!). Squad is a bipolar gf that’s past her prime. The memories are there but each interaction is brief and a reminder to do something else with your life instead.
Its just turned into a community riddled with permanent cope. The game and mechanics simply arent that realistic and don't demand realistic play from the player. SLs and CMDs are generally the biggest thing to blame as they get so easily tunnel visioned and don't seem to focus on making sure their Squad survives and most importantly, can dominate firefights. Its been what like 10 years of blaming new players and rambos. At a point you have to get over that cope and realize you are to blame. You are RPIng too hard in what is essentially a tacticool BF clone. Like it or not thats what Squads mechanics and most importantly game modes boil down to. If you play RAAS or AAS realistically you will lose every match. Its much better just to place a convenient HAB in the center of the map and let the horde flood, thats how you win. Expecting players to play to lose because realism is just insane. Players react to game mechanics, not the other way around. But Im sure people will just keep blaming new players like they have for the past 10 years now lol. Squads basically turned into new players blaming new players for the game not being an actual tac shooter. OWIs really cultivated an audience of highly compulsive fanboy types. They basically want to do the same thing every match, always know what to expect, always feel like an expert and so on. You just cant have that and have a tac shooter. The thing I find wild with the Squadience is they almost insist more on creating chaotic, cinematic frontlines over organized small Squad gameplay. If you start devising ways to really just stomp the enemy in every firefight and roll over the enemy team like its nothing people get mad. But if effective tactics are bad why even play a tac shooter? If you arent devising the most terrible ways imaginable to fuck people up why are you playing this type of game? Among Us exists and is exactly what people seem to want from Squad. Also why cant people admit the focus of tactics and warfare is to kill the enemy at a higher ratio than they kill you at so you can take crucial areas? Why are those areas crucial? Because they enable you to continue killing the enemy at a higher ratio than they can kill you at. Its really odd. Realistically the "kills dont matter" attitude is just incompatible with a combat focused tac shooter. The whole "just be a body in a circle" mentality will always ruin games like this. If your goal isnt to eliminate the enemy and clear the area for your own operations youll never have the basic foundation of a tac shooter in general and youll always have a BF style "body in a circle" shooter. When I SL and I see certain players can really dominate and rack 10 tickets for every death I dont just let them, I try to help them up those numbers. Sadly most of the community isnt like that. Its a kind of identity issue thing. Theyre too "tacticool" to even consider killing the enemy is the core goal of combat operations. The mechanics definitely demand this though which is really the major issue. If it cost supply to spawn Squad would probably play the way people wanted. Either that or limit HABs per match, you just cant have this type of infinite spawn gameplay and any semblance of realism or immersion. Im sure at this point weve all attacked mass spawn HABs and its just not fun or immersive gameplay. Its complete BF clone with some extras thrown in.
I'll grant you that the M249 should be more controllable even when standing. The recoil and sway is a little ridiculous for a gun that was specifically designed to be used both from the shoulder and the bipod.
There's a video of a marine laying down fire down some street in Afghanistan or some place, he fires the entire fuckin box in one hold of the trigger, and it didn't magically start flying to the sky lul, I think of it everytime I see the recoil in squad
If any of you had actually shot a M249 SAW you would know the recoil is not even close to being that bad. It’s like fucking butter. Even standing it’s nothinggggg like it is in game.
@@tommyhammer4301 I watched all the videos about this new update on UA-cam and Reddit. I hadn't played Squad for well over a year and a half and decided to give it a shot again. Played for maybe 10 minutes and uninstalled it. It just doesn't make sense. I'll probably will never play it again because of the mess its become. Realistic my ass, there's nothing realistic about it.
@@XionTRAX That doesnt justify it you know? I mean many many people have liked the new changes and the player base has grown ever since but for me, nah, I've had my fair share of hunderds of hours of gameplay and I think that should be it. Maybe I can get myself to like my noodle arms and the fact that me, an untrained 21 year old can handle an AK-47 better than a trained soldier someday.
I recently got back into squad after a couple months off and I’ve been sticking to the Global Escalation mod. After the recent update it received, I find that being able to hear the enemy voice chat is a much better way to encourage teamwork than the ICO. If you are spread out with random players not in your squad, the only way to communicate is using the local chat, which the enemies can hear. This encourages sticking to your squad so you can communicate in squad chat without the enemy hearing what you are doing.
GE is a blast but be careful, the puritans will go crazy when they learn you aren’t playing the Devs true vision. It is holy and true, any criticism is heresy
The characters being able to aim a gun without shaking intensly is more realistic than vanilla squad. In Squad they also made the peripheral blurry when you aim a scope, the thing is, in real life if you aim down a scope you can still move your eyes around. And ingame, the 'peripheral' is still blurred by your eyes in real life unless you're looking at it, so it's just useless.
The biggest problem with ICO is that it did not achieve anything to improve gameplay. Run and gun still exists, lone wolfing is still easy, and the loop of spawn shift+W die repeat is still alive and well. Vics dominate pubs now, MGs are garbage, and point firing is inconsistent at best, unusable at its worst. And for all those who wanna say “skill issue”, save your breath. I heard enough of that back when ICO was supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Funny how everyone who disagrees with this are all people with 0 military experience or knowledge. They just run with the limited and inaccurate info parroted by the ico supporters. Things like LMG’s are only for suppressing, ignoring the fact that they’re actually supposed to be the most lethal gun in the squad, with suppression being a close secondary. Or that it’s for some reason impossible to aim while moving (they have never touched a rifle and move at the same time). It’s just so cringe
@@polskabalaclava you guys are missing the point though. While yeah, if you don't take advantage of the new systems, the game will play mostly the same... but if you join a decent squad or lead your own, you can absolutely take advantage of the mechanics and have an absolute great time. It literally is a skill issue. MG's are AMAZING now, they just work differently... they aren't full auto snipers anymore, you cant quickly 1 tap people anymore, you have to actually shoot it like an MG. They're also usable as suppression weapons now without risk of getting head peaked headshot immediately. The point firing is more innacurate than it should be when moving, but if stationary its much more accurate. Vics have always dominated pubs and they're a problem, they either throw your game or dominate your game, very often. So again... if you want to enjoy what ICO has to offer, you need to play more as a tight squad with better comms. Stop expecting others to do it for you, make a squad on a decent server, stay close to eachother, and communicate together. As a PR player I've played Squad since the very beginning, and while the playerbase isn't near as good as PR, when you get a decent squad it's amazing.
The only thing I don’t like about this game unfortunately is a large amount of the people who play it. It feels like I have to get extremely lucky to join a server that has competent squads. I feel like the majority of the time it’s squad leaders who don’t talk or start a squad and leave after 5 mins. I’ll be SL every now and then but I just get so tired of it and want to play other roles.
I feel that. People keep saying ICO increased the team work. Yet so often I'm forced to play squad lead due to my hours and no one else wanting to play. I get tired of trying to organize people and just want my rifleman kit and nade spam.
Ico was suppposed to increase team work, unfortunately games that actually require teamm work are niche so it got marketed as more cod like.@humbleguardsman5578
Agreed. I don't consider myself an experienced player, yet I will still most often join "milsim / experience preferred" servers because I have no idea what's going on in "new player friendly" servers since there's almost never any leadership or callouts. I definitely understand the game a lot more in a milsim server where the SL gives accurate and concise descriptions of what's happening and what we're doing.
Squad definitely is not perfect, but the biggest problem are the players. I have been playing the game for quite a few years and put almost a thousand hours into it, had plenty of great, even matches lasting for hours and in the end one team winning by just a few tickets. Getting games coordinated and played well and seriously as that is quite rare though, big reason are all the new blueberries running around, the people not following commands, wandering off doing their own thing. Servers with the "Experience preferred" tag should be able to filter out players with a total play time lower than X hours. Something like that would probably make more matches more bearable.
Blaming players for Squad's problems is a lazy cop-out. It's the devs' job to make the game engaging and idiot-proof, not the players'. It’s like blaming patients for not getting better when their doctor hands them a WebMD leaflet instead of providing actual treatment. Expecting players to self-organize into a well-oiled machine without properly explained and streamlined game mechanics is as ludicrous as expecting a fish to climb a tree. Maybe instead of gatekeeping with "Experience preferred" tags, developers should focus on not making a game that needs a PhD in jank to enjoy.
@@sahmuss1164 So tell me exactly how developers can force players to cooperate and listen to their squadleaders micromanagement, tell me exactly how that is going to work out from the developers end. Are we gonna bring in some sort of Counter Strike-like cooldown system if you do not move to your fireteams move-mark, or if you dont launch an assault on the attack-mark? Squad developers can only do so much to try and make the playerbase engage in teamwork, the ICO is an example of what they can do - and it's not working because the playerbase are simply too stupid or simply seeking an "arcady" style of gameplay.
@@eklodry6495 Ah, the classic blame-the-player narrative, where apparently it's all on the gamers for not magically grasping the convoluted mechanics of the game. Listen, the real issue here is that the game does a spectacular job of hiding vital information like it’s the nuclear launch codes. We're talking about a user interface that is as intuitive as a hedge maze with no exit. For starters, newcomers are tossed into the deep end without a life vest-how are they supposed to understand the significance of their roles when the game communicates these details with all the clarity of a fogged-up windshield? It's a wild guesswork game of figuring out objectives, spawn mechanics, and, oh, the delightful clutter of the map that might as well be a modern art piece for all its usefulness. Don't even get me started on the complexities of being a Squad Leader and their responsibilities. Even shit like Radio placement, HAB Placement, Fortifications and Emplacements or even the nuances of stamina management. The learning curve isn't just steep; it's practically vertical when the game makes no effort to naturally teach you these things. And Let’s not gloss over the gem that is Jensen's Range, a tutorial so thrilling it could cure insomnia. If the goal was to leave players bewildered and unprepared, then congratulations to the developers-they've outdone themselves. So sure, go ahead and pin it all on the players. That's definitely going to polish the game's image and not at all hasten its decline. Because nothing says "successful game" like a player base lost in the weeds of poor game design blaming each other for their confusion. Keep up that attitude; it's clearly working wonders for the community engagement.
@@sahmuss1164 All good points, but the main comment was about how their teammates were not following commands and were wandering off doing their own thing. I don't think it's that complicated to listen to basic orders from your Squad Leader and even if you didn't know how to do something, you could just always ask the more experienced people in your team. At the end of the day, yes, the learning curve is pretty hard, but maybe actually playing and coordinating with your team rather than going solo is a good step forward into playing and enjoying the game.
Consider how illogical it is for a game named *"Squad"* to lack a built-in party matchmaking system that enables you to consistently team up with your group of friends. It's utterly absurd.
@@perseus1293it's a bit misleading. You CAN create a private squad and you CAN invite your friends into it. However, there are some caveats. 1) You need to join the same server, and there is no pre-server lobby (where you can group up and join the server simultaneously) like in CS/Valorant/BF/etc. And finding a server empty enough for your whole group is nearly impossible, they are either full or empty. 2) Once all of your party join a server, they need to be on the same team. Again, can be challenging, because there is an autobalance system in place, that forbids you to change sides if the other side has >= players, than yours. So, if the server is full (50-50), then you will have to wait until someone on another team leaves. You'll also have to change sides fast enough, because another player will join in like 10 seconds and will take your slot.
This is exactly how I’ve been feeling about squad. It’s so tough because squad has given me gaming experiences no other game has topped. To me, Squad is at its best when played as a social military roleplaying sim between two teams that build defensive positions and cooperate with other squads to achieve strategic goals. Squad is really not about kills, or who wins. The most fun comes from the organic and extremely dynamic ‘set piece’ battles over objectives. When both teams fight in realistic and coordinated ways it creates some unforgettable experiences. Sadly over time the player base changed and it’s became less and less common. These days it’s normal that one team will not build a single HAB and get steamrolled.
Its a game of coordination to me. On invasion games, if the defense all sticks together and sets up to defend one point, they usually win. If the attackers all load up in armor and drop directly on the point, they usually win. The defenders lose if they have half the team in the rear building some terrible "super" fob, and the attackers lose if they have IFVs acting as (ineffective) artillery
@@timallenfanclubofficial true it is all coordination. Even if you want your IFVs to push up and engage enemy infantry at close range, the IFV will get smoked by AT if it doesn’t have friendly infantry support. Even if you want to defend the objective, it can be impossible without good logistics bringing fresh squads and resources to the front. Another thing is artillery, it takes patience, pre-planning and excellent communication skills, but if you manage to call out targets successfully and get accurate mortar fire pounding an enemy position before you and your guys launch an assault it’s just so much fun.
@@timallenfanclubofficialI love the super fobers. Granted I usually switch to the attacking team in invasion. But there's just something enduring about spending all that time and energy building something that will be destroyed by one command asset.
@@jacobantaya7423 I think they should have a game mode like hell let loose where the map is smaller and more compact so objectives are much more nearer.
One of my favorite things of Squad is loading up to the Server browser, seeing 10 different servers with the same few map rotations with a queue of 20+ meanwhile there's plenty of servers with simialar ping that are at 30 people... that and running into someone who is trying to play COD (he had Squad and COd opened and played both)
There’s only two things I wish they would reel in a bit on the ICO. Reduce flinching from single shots from infantry using rifles. Because sometimes it feels like you exchange rounds (if firing at each other at range) for a full minute till someone luckily lands a hit. Like a flinch battle. And reduce or remove having no sight picture after running and aiming. It’s not fun dying after aiming and seeing a black scope. Just have a heap of sway or something, but no sight picture just doesn’t feel good.
I don't know who the hell is pushing this mechanic( besides suppression) that ruined combat in the game. Interestingly, the ArmA series itself doesn't have this mechanic and never will. And you know why, because it was done by actual ex-soldiers who understood weapons and other things. At one time, my friends who go to shooting ranges wanted to buy a squad before ICO, but when ICO came out, they completely lost interest in the game because they thought the aiming mechanics were completely stupid. I go to shooting ranges and I find the aiming mechanics unrealistic. If anyone thinks it's supposed to improve squad communication they're sorely mistaken, the thing that's changed the most about squad is the suppression of gunfire and aiming, nothing else, maybe more lone players.
“But muh soldiers carrying 40kg and running for miles!!1” these people say until you bring up this thing they teach you in military called *Stress Shooting*
I have split opinions on the ICO. I have over 3000 hours on Arma, so keep in mind I like tactical shooters. I understand the need to slow down gameplay, it is a tactical shooter. But on the other hand, it feels artificial. I do sympathize with the counterclaim of "if you were running full speed for half a kilometer, you would be tired as well" but the shooting is simply not at all realistic. I am by no means a "tacticool" shooter who goes out to shoot every weekend, but I can shoot guns more accurately than the trained soldiers in Squad. I think the issue of the ICO comes down to nerfing individual impact so severely, that it feels artificial. A trained soldier would have better gun control than those in Squad. This is where I think the majority of anger comes from. It isn't hard because it is "realistic" but is instead hard to punish players who would otherwise have an outsized impact on the game. For full transparency, pre ICO my squad of friends were always easily dropping 100+ kill games as a squad of 3-5 individuals. Now, having 100+ kills is an outlier. This isn't because we play full Battlefield and run and gun, it came down to superior tactics and positioning. But because the ICO punishes individual impact, if our squad gets suppressed or countered at all, everything falls apart. This encourages what some call "blueberry balls" where in order to do anything, you need the entire team. As controversial as this idea is, I think the solution is reverting mostly to pre-ICO gunplay, but keeping the suppression. In Squad's current state, the gunplay feels artificially punishing and incentivizes behavior that is antithetical to the real purpose of the ICO. I know this comment won't change anything, but I really care about this game and would like it to revert to a state that rewards individual skill more. We all started as green and unaware, but the ICO seems to have put a ceiling on one's potential growth as a soldier in the game.
It's rare to see a comment written by an actual human being. You're right, a great way to put it, squad artificially punishes players who would otherwise have an outsized impact on the game. I think the problem is fundamentally that this was exactly their goal, and to revert the changes would be to change goals. I personally like a game that favours the team over the individual but for people who don't I can see the frustration.
@@slorgsI'm in the exact same camp, 2k hours in Arma 3, 2k hours in Arma 2 DayZ, 2k in CS ect ect.. I feel I understand what makes games fun and competive. I used to play with guys where dropping 100 kills as a squad wasn't much of a stretch, I myself would hit 30-40 most games with 67 being my inf record, but I have the self awareness that the ICO was aimed squarely at my type, and I understand why. You know what, that got boring when the enemy team got wiped at nearly every engagement. So I stopped playing due to the tactical & strategic skill gap being so large in public games, as most games it's was possible to out smart & stomp the enemy without trying just by simply rushing somewhere at game start, wiping a squad and a wee bit manoeuvring, all the 1 tap headshots was the cherry on top. I honestly hoped the ICO would put the fun back into downimg 40-50+ blueberries in pub games, oh boy was I wrong about OWIs vision for the game. It made the game truly horrible to play at any pace other than a snails pace.. That's where I drew the line and fully gave up with the game, the devs don't fully understand what made squad so enjoyable at the higher skills levels where they destroyed a respectable competive scene & organised friendly events such as CCFN in one fowl swoop. Now it's flooded with apprentice blueberrys with no chance of graduating to blueberry status, let alone SL or god forbid commander. All the skilled players are still here, waiting for OWI to pull the finger out and create a game where new players are not severely punished for every single tatical mistake and skilled players and not nurffed so far into the ground it's actually more fun to touch grass...
My one argument would be this infatuation people have with "trained soldiers." What does that mean? Soldiers in every faction, and even within the subfactions, would realistically have vastly different levels of training and proficiency with firearms and even tactical training and experience: Insurgents probably have none to minimal quality training with weapons and tactics, realistically they should lose just about every straight up fight they would take part in in game, spraying rounds all over the place with old poorly maintained weapons and gear. Militia might be a bit better if we say they are probably made up of a lot of former military dudes, but even then the level of expertise would probably be all over the place and they would be just a bit better than other irregular forces. Russian forces are pretty much all made up of large groups of conscripts who may or may not get some field and range time. I cannot speak to other conventional forces, but I think most people who complain are overestimating the amount of actual range time and tactical training US regulars get. The active duty probably shoots a few times a year if that, most time in the field seems to be mostly maneuver and sitting around and setting up or tearing down camp. Apart from using crew served, automatic, or other heavy weapons I'd expect civilians who actually go to the range multiple times a month or year and take care of and work on their own guns to be more proficient with firing and grouping. Then there's at least one National Guard subfaction and its suspension of disbelief to think they are these pseudo navy seal/ CoD protagonists that anti-ICO guys image trained soldiers are who have immaculate spray control.
There's a reason why PR is considered the best milsim experience... and it's because of it's community and it's own version of ICO (which is much worse than sway). You're wrong my dude. Individual players can still have just as much of an impact. The only reason it's harder to get as many kills is because the game is slower and the TTK is technically longer. More fights play out like actual firefights, where people miss shots and have to do more than just out aim people. Suppress them, then flank them, fire and move, etc... Pre-ICO was almost purely about getting the drop on your enemy and shooting before they do, that's it.... the aiming was in the same style of Battlefield or CoD, with very fast TTK, making the game EXTREMELY noob friendly. The only real issue I have with ICO is how little stamina you get... You only have a short amount of sprint time before you go below half and get punished with weapon sway, but if you stay above half stam, you can get perfectly accurate long range shots off after just waiting 3 seconds... and UNLIKE in project reality, you can shoot before those 3 seconds if you're a good shot and work with the sway. (In PR, it was random bullet deviation, and you literally can't play around it at all). You guys are just playing the game wrong. It's now a sniper fest where everyone just clicks heads now, there's much more depth to it. Get okay with missing shots, understand suppression, use fire and move tactics, and you can get some of the most intense teamwork gameplay possible in a video game. ICO was the best thing to happen to milsims, and people who disagree honestly just have not thought about it while putting their bias of subjective enjoyment to the side.
@@huntervegas4548 >people who disagree honestly just have not thought about it while putting their bias of subjective enjoyment to the side. You mean the part that is literally the most important part of a game? The thing that we all play for? That moment of bliss that people get when they play a game? That thing? You want us to set it aside so that ... we can somehow enjoy the game without it? There is no fun in a game that took away one of the major parts of it that made it fun. Just because your priorities look different does not mean that my priorities are somehow "bad" or "wrong".
I like what ICO tried to do. But I feel it's all just a bit too much, the noodle arms piss me off too much. Every weapon has too much sway and recoil and the jump from laser beam pre-ICO to grapeshot post ico makes me not like the game anymore. It's all just about bearable until you move 15m and can't hit past 25m without a tea break. The game is getting a little better but the massive inaccuracy you get in CQB and then the new damage nerfs again makes it more frustrating than satisfying. This is just my opinion but in a lot of ways, it's the most unrealistic realism update ever.
ICO's intention was never to be "realistic." It's the fans that keep saying "this is not realistic," when OWI never claimed it to be the goal of it, ever. It's to promote teamwork and communication and discourage lone wolfing. Unless you have a better alternative, then this is probably the direction they should go.
@lilfuzzballa if a mechanic doesn't fall into the categories: fun; realistic. Then why have that mechanic at all? To make the game harder? Real life is already plenty hard, not sure you need harder than that. To 'incentivise teamwork'? How exactely does this achieve that? Surely not being able to hit sht just makes me more likely to solo sneak around the enemy and fk with their back infrastructure. There is never a reason to ever have a mechanic in a shooter that doesn't exist for either fun or realism.
@@dob_z ICO is a mechanic to de-incentivize players lone wolfing. Pre ICO made splitting off from your Squad, flanking the enemy where they a unaware, 1 tap shot a few unsuspecting enemies, sprint your way, to a new position, and 1 tap a couple more, as if you were John Wick. Of course that's fun for the the average FPS player. But OWI is not wanting to make just another typical FPS game for the average player. That's not OWI's original idea for Squad. They want players to actually feel the need to rely on each other to be effective. You need a couple players suppressing, while others move to an advantageous position to kill the enemy. They want you to communicate, cover friendlies, while others sprint to position. Everything that ICO changed, was intended to reward this kind of play. So sure, just having bad aim, and massive recoil doesn't sound fun in a vacuum, but in the context of Squad, the goal is to slowly shift the meta to players finding out that trying to play it like COD is not effective. Eventually all the Battlefield refugees and casual FPS players expecting gunplay to work like every other game will get frustrated enough that they either leave or learn to adapt. Which will eventually leave Squad with a community that want to play tactically. And to these types of players, playing slow and tactical is FUN for them. So in an indirect way ICO exists in order to cultivate a kind of fun for a niche crowd. Also you are so wrong about mechanics needing to be fun or realistic in FPS games. For one, what is considered "FUN" is highly subjective, and secondly, there are a lot of mechanics and design decisions implemented in games that are not technically fun from a surface level, but exist to facilitate a certain meta or balance, in order for the game to be more enjoyable.
This is also happening to Battle Bit. The lead dev basically wanted it to be Roblox Project Reality, but once it went live it turned into the sweatiest team death match furball with no teamplay and a strict meta. He was bummed. Now they're redoing the game, I think for the better, and the already 95% reduced player base is bummed and going to leave. The genre in general is kind of weird. If its TOO strict and "realistic" it makes the appeal very narrow, so most milsim games chill it out a bit, but then sweaty metas happen and the milsim dorks leave. Then the sweats get bummed when a patch turns it back into milsim.
The biggest problem is that both devs and players mostly think about gunplay when they talk about milsim. When the real problem is "UP TO THE COMBAT" part. The logistics of a war group, of your squad, of your self, from how you are gonna approach the situation, how you will go there (walk/run/drive/fly/swim), and so on. People think realism is just battlefield with extra steps.
The devs literally said they are slowing down TTK overall and making unrealistic changes. They are leaning more towards the Call of Duty fast paced playstyle and becoming much more unrealistic.
@@GaboG3 The game was like call of duty on release though? If they want to turn it into a milsim type game they have to slow the movement, increase gun recoil, have some kind of ICO like squad or increase TTK. The reason people just sprint around and run and gun is because the game is WAY too fast paced and you can constantly spawn in fights so no reason to play with a squad
My biggest issue with squad is that no matter what server you are in and no matter what squad you join or even create yourself, at least 4 out of 9 players in your squad will be completely numb for the entire game, unwilling to talk or even just do call-outs. Even when you are a Squad Leader, most of the time the only thing you will hear on your command channel will be crickets sitting in the fields of Yehorivka
Command chat is honestly better when it's dead. As someone who SL's most games, it's a fucking nightmare hearing people broadcast 90% useless comms the entire game. When it's dead you can just focus on your Squad. As long as people are marking stuff and you're checking the map often, command chat is pretty pointless. But for your other complaint, yeah :( but if you have 4 people actively communicating in your squad and the other 4 following along it's fine. Great word choice though... The "numb" players need to stay on casual servers.
@@huntervegas4548 Thats odd, do you only play infantry? Its absolutely crucial to keep your armor and other squads informed or whats happening and not just with marks
@@usmcbf3090 Thats what direct comms are for. The numpad. Some things should be broadcasted over command chat, but most of it just shouldn't be said at all. The problem is that most people don't even consider the fact that people are in combat / near enemies and need to hear game audio for footsteps/gunshots clearly. So instead of tank spotted at X, headed west. Or HAB spotted and marked. You'll get "Hey guys I found their tank, I hear it somewhere west of my position, I think it's driving towards X location. It doesn't hear me yet I'll try to keep it updated" Then friendly tank squad responds in global command chat "OK we are on our way, try to keep it updated, we have to repair first and rearm" Then other guy replies "OK sounds good. Is there anyone with a HAT that can come track it first?" Blah blah blah.... I mainly play infantry, but regardless if you're armor or infantry, clear precise to the point comms is important It just doesn't negatively impact you like it does when you're infantry trying to communicate with your 9 man squad/hear game audio. Armor squads should be checking map CONSTANTLY for new marks. So global comms for something like "Is the tank mark accurate?" is fine. But once you know who the SL is that marked it, take it to direct chat. Many games, command chat is talking like half the damn game. It's actually insane. a simple armor mark with an arrow shhowing the direction theyre going is just fine in most cases, and there's no reason to advertise it to every SL over comms.
Wait, you used to actually be able to hit what you’re aiming at in Squad? I first played squad, I now realize, almost immediately after the ICO update. It wasn’t a bad game, I had fun, but it didn’t captivate me because it felt too hard to get into, and this is coming from an avid Arma player. The guns made me feel like I was a toddler trying to control a magazine of overpressured ammo constantly, trying to figure out where the hell the fighting was confused me, and so many players kept dropping in and out that I kept ending up as the squad leader of a full squad of seasoned players who are screaming at me to give orders and place stuff down. I want to love Squad. My brother loves squad, my friends love squad, but I just couldn’t.
Sounds like you're getting in shitty servers. The gunplay was massively changed over the last year or so, and it's an issue that has split the player base. I personally like it, it makes the combat feel more realistic and tactical as the more you run/shoot while in combat, the harder it becomes to control your breathing and weapon. Suppression has also been made more realistic. So basically when Squad came out it was a self titled "Milsim". It's now an average milsim and all the players who thought it was at first have their panties in a wad because there is a skill aspect to it now rather than sitting on a mountain and sniping.
@@jakemensik2842 realistic? tactical? its less realistic than any cod or battle field in that ur player is literally a blind cripple with a broken shoulder trying to fire a gun.
@@JR-zi9vj I disagree partly the ICO had a concept in mind which is relying on tactics and lessen the point and click gun play that original squad had thou it did went overboard.
Us people who like squad and the ICO, it is our duty to play often as SL, which is the most important role of squad. It's better to have a great SL than great teammates. So we shall lead by example and offer to others the best teamwork based squad experience possible. Surely it'll need some courage, but we can't hide among the masse of soldiers hoping for better SLs.
This is why I’ve started to SL more. Especially since I often play galactic conquest and holy shit they have no idea what they’re doing on those servers
I'm Squad free for two years now, but I'm glad that basicly nothing changed: -The Devs still fuck up the game in each patch. -Every squad player is always on the hunt for the next perfect match. -And new players are still the worst.
Okay that last part you shouldn't put as a negative. Ofc new players are gonna be the worst. Unless they play Arma what did you expect they are new they not gonna be good at the game or know everything. (I'm new to the game as well and I adapted decently still trying to figure out how not to be blind as fuck. But I'm getting at least 4-5 downs per game which I think is good. )
@GalacticEmperorAstronomus As much as it is nice to be nice, it is understandable that being a player who wants to play tactically and seeing a dude run in and die just so that he can get some kills is annoying. Now some people might say "Oh what's wrong with run and gun? We want to have fun.". But the problem lies in the fact that squad is a game about the bigger picture. If you want to run and gun, it costs your teamates tickets. If you want to caml an empty but important road to protect the flanks, your team benefits. Lots of new players do just that, they aren't willing to play for the team at all. Most new players do just that. They prefer killing enemies 100% of the time over more boring gameplay for the sake of helping the team.
ICO is just dog-shit. I do not understand the mentality behind its support. Played Squad since it came out in early access and it has always been hard, but ICO destroyed it for me. It sold itself on the basis of "more teamwork". Only teamwork was still rare and the terrible gunplay caused by ICO compounded this and made the overall experience just awful - you couldn't make up for squad short-comings, you were deprived of the capacity to use your own initiative to hold up the unit. I was initially very hopeful ICO would make weapons less laser like. I wanted greater ramifications for sprinting and being suppressed. I tried to go back to ICO Squad, selected Squad MG and minutes later found myself sat covering the flank of my squads advance through a forest when an enemy squad was moving through a nearby sloping field towards a village. I set up, waited for the EF to come down the slope (so my rounds would impact behind them as opposed to vanishing off where I couldn't see if I was zeroed properly) and started burst firing. Didn't hit a single. f**king. Thing. They started firing back and also couldn't hit me (we were no more then 200m away). Everyone was so inaccurate they were able to withdraw under heavy fire (100m sprint across open ground) and called in a tank which then bombarded the forest for ten minutes. Just gobsmackingly shite.
“provides authentic combat experiences through teamwork, communication, and realistic combat.” My ass, if infantry held their weapons like with ICO, we’re either malnourished or all severely injured.
The gun handling isn't the only way you make something authentic. The shit handling actually forces you to use some of your brain to position because if you are in a decent spot you have a second to slow down and take your time with your shots you can hit stuff. Stop sprinting and start thinking. Also with the suppression mechanics you don't even need to hit them which is good enough in many circumstances to open up the opportunity to maneuver. The goal of the game isn't to get kills.
There have been many PVP shooter games that have tried to balance high skill players against low skill players WarZ (infestation survivor stories) at one point had so much weapon bloom that you couldn't fight anyone outside of sneeze range Battlefield 3 jacked the weapon bloom through the roof on every automatic unless you put a bipod on Insurgency Sandstorm jacked the muzzle flip on all semi-auto and automatic weapons where firing a 5.56 carbine has more muzzle jump than a .50bmg M82 would IRL Escape from Tarkov made automatic useless outside of sneeze range by cranking the recoil to 11 for a number of years (they've recently fixed it) Call of Duty will actively change enemy players hitboxes if you're doing too well while also making YOUR hitbox bigger for everyone else Red Orchestra has exaggerated weapon handling that artificially nerfs skilled shooters And now Squad is following suit by making dog shit recoil tweaks What I'll never understand in their pursuit of "making everyone happy" is why not just make a separate mode where the casuals who suck at PVP and just want to dick around a sandbox occasionally shooting at someone can play in peace in their own separate corner of the game? It'd be easy to make realistic playlists and casual playlists, make the realistic one actually have realistic weapons handling so the core audience of said tactical shooter isn't driven off because the devs caved to the casual timmy who doesn't think it's fair that someone should be able to kill them from 100m away. It's beyond frustrating to be super into a "tactical shooter" just for them to randomly be like "Oh, hey, sorry, uhhh, we're going to make this completely unrealistic now because too many players cry about not being good at the game but for some reason still insist on playing it" If the main focus of a "realistic" shooter is the gun play, and you fuck the gunplay to somehow be less realistic than Call of Duty, then you've failed at making a "realistic shooter", people like playing "realistic shooters" because they want to play with guns that handle/act in a realistic fashion, people don't want to play with guns that feel like hot garbage when the game is said to be focused on realism. Casuals will come out of the wood works to say stuff like "it's for balance" or "you just want star wars laser beams" or "I have no idea how guns work but I think my opinion on them from playing a couple video games is that it's almost impossible for someone to control a 5.56 in automatic". Ok, that last one was made up, but still, fucking beyond frustrating what casual gamers are doing to the mil-sim space.
Once upon a time there was an organized "tournament" of sorts for BF2 called 21st Century Warfare. Players could sign up for different factions and compete across a larger map. Each week the leaders of each faction would essentially play a game of Risk and every weekend their teams would go head to head to claim that piece on the board by playing custom BF2 maps. I want this for Squad.
"There is only CoD, Battlefield, and Squad" Mate there was Insurgency Sandstorm and WW3. They're not as big but they fit the niche of displaced BF players. There's also BF3's Project Reality in the work and that's what I'm waiting for.
I’m pretty sure it’s working I played it a few months ago. I only quit because you have to hold the run key the entire time and my pinky started to hurt. It’s really cool! I bought that 15 year old game just to play the mod.
As someone who is familiar with firearms, shooting using scope and a small bit of combat (via airsoft), I think I can say that even tho everything was not trash with that update, the ads time, time before the scope goes from full black to actually visible (scope alignement), ads stability especially when prone, are stupid and not realistic, anyone with basic weapon handling experience and skill knows that they exagerated it a lot, and everytime I play that game now, I feel like I'm playing a toddler barely able to hold the gun. I can't talk about suppression or recoil, since I'm not used to firing semi auto 223 and obviously to getting shot at with real guns + I think the recoil and suppression are not that bad (maybe recoil is a bit exagerated, 556 feels more like 762/308), but the scoping in general is trash now, as a sniper main, I feel scammed... People saying that it is just a skill issue are denial/don't have experience with guns. When you fire a gun, you hold it tight to manage the recoil, in a game, this is should be simulated by moving the barrel out of it's original line of sight, not through moving the scope outof alignement because there is no way to controll that in a game, it should be assumed that the character is actually able to manage recoil so the scope don't goes full black at every fucking shot
Hey Slorgs, love the content. I don’t know if you do much squad leading, but if you do, I encourage you to try locking your squad at 5 players and seeing what the experience is like. I’ve been SLing for a long time and have become kinda tired of the game because of the player base, but all of the times I have had fun is when I’ve locked my squad at a ~5 player count and told my squad that we will be doing “special ops” work, building flanking habs, ambushing vehicles, hab hunting and various other mischief. It really is easier for people to get along when there aren’t so many bodies to manage
This is advice that applies to pretty much everyone learning to SL. Keeping a 9 man squad tight is basically hardcore-mode. Game plays fast af, roll with the nickel squad and play tight. It's more consistent, which is what Squad needs in matches - consistency.
steam charts dont tell the whole story, western populations are way down, and chinese is way up, on top of that, if you go to battle metrics it will show about 2k-ish players arent actually in a server, meaning either people are all in a massive queue or theyre using bots to keep player count up for investor fraud. Either way, so many people have moved on and never will come back because of ICO, and thats what killed squad, its all noobs now that have no idea how to play and are teaching the next generation of noobs wrong. Squad was killed because they killed their actual player base
All ive gotta say is there are a million and a half arcade and semi-arcade competetive shooters on the market, it would be cool if we could just have ONE SINGLE realistic pvp shooter where I can crack open a beer and hop in a queue of an ongoing game
I think they really need to focus on having digestible and comprehensive tutorials for new players, various roles, and game modes. This will improve player retention and the quality of the playerbase if executed properly.
What pushed me away from the game was it ended up being nothing like the game Karmakut played. Servers were awful and the roles were also awful. I hated joining a server as a new player, being forced into a lead position and having 10 people screaming orders like it was Afghanistan. That and it just felt too arcade like. We’d spawn, walk for 10 minuets, die and then have to respawn and walk again. A lot of the time I would just take my headset off and play mute because I couldn’t stand the toxicity. Shit was like a 2010 CoD lobby. I’ve had good games sure but mostly bad experiences so I haven’t played in quite a while.
It is problem only if people lose connection because of that. Imagine if you start playing a game with just one server so you get to know people as there is only few of them. Then the game rises in popularity so they add more servers. If the first server stays the same in terms of the people, it will be no issue. Problem arises when people start to mixup with new people too much and suddenly you don’t know anybody.
@@nick8874At the same point, I liked playing games like tannenberg. Guess what? It died in a year. Maybe less. I’d prefer to be able to play the game and not have to deal with bots than playing with some idiot teammates. And every tactical shooter gamer starts somewhere!
Its always like that man. When something is niche, few people that are INVESTED join in. When something becomes mainstream, all the stupid fucks come in and fuck it up for the people that want to play together/as a team/with some semblance of tactics.
That’s my biggest gripe and reason for dumping this game after playing it and loving it for four years. Playerbase has gone downhill and ruined the experience a that used to come out of this game. The experiences I had four years are very different than today. Game gives me nothing now.
Played arma my entire life, harcore for life ACE mods and all. Had my eye on squad in my library for the longest time(with 1hour played in 4years), and finally jumped the ship during the ICO test servers, been playing almost a whole year now and i dont see myself stopping anytime soon
Squad players not getting good be like: Squad players realizing that shooting a SAW while standing and trying to make accurate shots in full auto mode is a bad idea.
@@malcontender6319 Have you tried keeping your stamina at about half? Every time you run, you use stamina. If you deplete it completely, your aim suffers because your stamina is too low. Play more cautiously and avoid using all of your stamina. Keep it around the middle so you can still run when needed. If you encounter enemies, stop, crouch, and fire. You'll perform better because your opponent often has no stamina left. Also, moving slower reduces your chances of dying since you're not running around like it's CoD. Keeping your stamina at 50% gives you an emergency reserve to escape quickly if you're under fire.
"proning in a room, staring at a door" Yes, guarding the secret toilet entrance on Kashan. A youth well spent. But you've also brought back memories of that deviation mechanic PR had for like 4 or 5 years. It had its problems, but it was the first time I'd seen machineguns be truly useful in an FPS. Up to that point, you could seriously argue they were optional and people picked them up by superficial preference, but after PR got the deployment mechanic down, they were as important as LAT kits and medics.
Loved squad more and more with every update. Then the weapons rework came and I haven't played ever since. And I know people will go "its the most realistic shooting in any game", but there is nothing realistic about a professional soldier not being able to shoot someone 20-30 meters away that is not even shooting at you and doesn't even see you. Adding PiP sights was incredible and I aplaud it. But everything else is just not working. Also for people saying "but it promotes teamwork and flanking" no it does not. It just slows the gun fights and randomizes who wins. If you are complaining that squad is populated by people running and shooting without tactics, then maybe you should join servers that actually have tactical players playing and not join noob friendly because que to experienced servers is higher. In servers with experienced players you had flanks and shit going on, everyone having mic, following orders and such and it was great. Recoil and gun mechanics was something I always appreciated with squad, for me it was even better than Insurgency Sandstorm. It had decent recoil that with practice you can control, you still had suppression, machine guns were actually machine guns. Now its just shooting and hoping for the best most of the time. People that like ISO are people who can aim their mouse and need smeared screen and randomized bullet spread in order to even out the field for them. There, I said it. Let the hate comments begin...
I agree, I love squads tactical game play, when I'm in a squad ill follow orders exactly. I havnt played in ages since ICO, I enjoy the team play but I want to be able to kill if I'm aiming at them.
I like the recent reworks to gunplay. It's getting me back in to the game after a long break. The ico was overkill but now that I can actually steady my aim it's much more enjoyable. I also just built my third computer in hopes of seeing decent fps in the game ever again and the 165 fps breathes some life in to the experience.
Purchased yesterday, only have a couple of hours clocked, loving every second so far. If this is the game troubled, I missed out big time. Better late than never.
Most of the people who said "shot a gun" barely do it after running 5 kilometers with 40Kg of equipment and sleep deprived most of the time affraid of their lives otherwise why you explainthe DOZENS of weapons programs specifically made to increase hit rates on army?
the point of the mechanic is not to accurately portray your literal ability to handle your weapon while tired/suppressed, it's to create a (very strong) incentive for players to employ vaguely realistic tactics. The more you deviate from ico, the less you punish players for taking excess and suicidal risks. Before ico, fire and maneuver was kind of a dumb way to play the game, because you could not effectively suppress the enemy.
@@Warfaremachine0095 Bolox, In the Irish defense forces we would run before shooting at the range or doing falling plates. A trained soldier is accurate even when exerted, squad is a milsim not random guys who shot a gun once simulator. If a soldier can't hit the broadside of a barn after jogging a few meters he is a liability.
As other people said above me The gameplay kinda turns into bf but with extra steps and also can yalls stfu about how you shot your 9mm after a nice cup of coffee and your good and healthy at the shooting range you mf act like you went to war cuz you sure didn't 😂 All the mechanics in ICO make sense cuz you are not playing as a main character or something your just a regular soldier Your telling me you won't get scared to shit after being shot at and you won't get shaky hands from all the stress and adrenaline yeeaaaa stfu and go back to playing arcade shooters cuz squad is definitely not gonna be your another point and click game
@@chungusloverSuppression is fine but dude the way they went about implementing the update was a huge slap in the face to the community that made this game possible. Like they barely tested something that changed the entire gameplay experience then said deal with it. Instead of adding little things over time to test this out. Having these ideas is not the problem it’s how they handled the whole thing. Not to mention they still to this day will not fix the performance. They focus so much on things that didn’t need to happen.
ICO is meant to level out the skill gap so that new players and experienced players are on a more leveled playing field. There is little skill required for defeating enemy team when everyone is intoxicated and has noodle arms. If you want an actual realistic and immersive experience go play tarkov. This game will completely break your immersion if you have ever fired a gun more than 100 times irl
Im hurting that you don't mention Insurgency: Sandstorm as a modern accessible tactical shooter. Game is super fun and it fills the void that battlefield, squad and Hell let Loose have left in me.
It’s primarily infantry focused, small-scale infantry at that. Huge difference with that. Plus, not that it matters to some, but the fake factions in Insurgency are pretty dumb as well. I love how Squad features real countries and authentic loadouts.
I have probably 500h in sandstorm and 500 more in the first insurgency, so I can safely pontificate that if you think Insurgency is in the same space as squad then you are crazy. No logistics, no vehicles (apart from call ins and a couple 50cal trucks no one uses), laser beam weapons even compared to squad before ICO, tiny scale maps that funnel players into direct combat (not quite the 3 lanes of CoD, but nowhere near as open as squad, more like a battlefield rush map). The game is fun though, so if that's the void you were looking to fill that makes sense but if the void is specifically a tactical shooter then no.
Here's the thing though, man... I'll be 25 in a month, been playing on PC since I was 15. Why did I get a PC? Project Reality, Civilization V, and Arma 3. Squad's ICO has utterly failed in ALL categories as far as I am concerned, and if I ever play the game it's with the Global Mobilizaiton mod or whatever it's called. "It's bringing back the PR feel!" some say. I say "Where?". The sway is egregious, the gunplay atrocious, and everything just feels like an RNG simulator. Now the devs are adding a new PMC faction with new weapons like the MP5 and I just have to laugh. Why bother? Weapons are pathetic in this game. PR actually felt good to play, and STILL does to this day. Squad feels like a constant fight with the game itself rather than the enemy. "It encourages teamwork!" Lol. Just lol. "Go back to Call of Duty!" Lolno. I have no interest in pathetic skin shooters, but I do expect a shooter to have gunplay that feels good. Rising Storm 2, Battlefield BC2/3/4, old Squad, even FREAKING TARKOV OF ALL GAMES have or had better gunplay than this absolute disaster that is the ICO. Funny enough, Tarkov can be a Hella crazy team experience. Rising Storm 2 can become a mind-blowing struggle or absolute curbstomp if there is teamwork. Even Battlefield titles of old had insane matches I remember fondly, particularly Battlefield 3 when one could VOIP across the entire team of 32 people (which was nuts when everyone got excited). These games, they encourage teamplay through various OTHER ways besides turning everyone's weapons into some sort of weird player influenced-RNG-fest that is downright unpleasant to try to play. Tl;DR: Squad is shit now. I will die on that hill. It is pathetic, the fact it has microtransactions even moreso, and the game could have been so much better with only two features from the ICO being kept/added, those being the movement-based accuracy and the suppression effects. The sway and other BS was unnecessary and murdered the gameplay.
Sway is something all humans experience, but Squad took it too far. You can't jog 20 meters without your character having a panick attack and not being able to aim properly, and the scope system is terrible aswell. In CQB you are forced to either aim a 4x scope and have your entire vision blurred and not able to aim due to sway, or hip fire where the gun isnt even shouldered and the character is treating the gun like its a 50 BMG, recoil is insanely unrealistic and the characters dont know how to point fire. We're all Ugandan child soldiers according to OFFWORLD.
The main issues with the game: 1) the server browser is ass, and the lack of a group matching system is ridiculous 2) the players, people don’t play the game like a team, or really for the proper objective, you end up with people all over the place, small groups running around out in the middle of nowhere, because they don’t care if they die
Anyone defending the ICO should have gone and played a different game. ICO ruined the game and it got review bombed for a reason. Not only is it not realistic but it isn’t fun. Please someone try and defend it. Why do you like it over the original game?
“Muh team play, muh punishing run n gun” or somehting along the lines of that, even though ICO didn’t improve either of those, people still run and gun and “encouraging team play” never works
For me all my friends besides one absolutely hate the ICO update and we all mostly stopped playing since it launched. Recently I hopped back in and on some custom servers they have introduced changes to make it more manageable but I still really don't like it. Just not the same....
On point as usual. For what it's worth your production quality is absolutely through the roof, honestly the tightest gaming content I've ever watched. I spent 6 hours editing a 2 minute video, so I know what I'm talking about.
Personally, I started playing Squad during 2020 and fell in love with what it had to offer at the time, which was the somewhat tactical side and full head on battlefield pvp style, which is why I'm almost at 3,000 hours as of writing this. Though, when the ICO dropped it brutally kicked me and other peoples play styles in our asses and made me realize that from this point on, it's going to be more of a challenge to rack up those high kill games (though you can still achieve by being a, mortarmen or using, grad, armor, ub32, arty, etc.) and to have more fun in a sense. And up until the ICO dropped, I've never really had a negative thing to say about Squad which is probably because I grew up on First-Person Shooters like Call of Duty and Battlefield and that's what made it a lot better for me to get into and never really ran into many people who wanted Squad to feel more realistic and have a slower, more tactical experience. All the hours I spent learning the mechanics of the game. For each specific gun,, was now basically lost due to them pretty much making the recoil and sway a lot more impactful and detrimental if you choose to aim, coming off a full dash across a field, and nowadays, I barely make it past 30-50 kills as an infantryman which isn't a bad thing and nor am I trying to sound like I'm complaining, but it is much more difficult to recreate some of the moments that made me fall in love with this game, and I'm sure there are other people like me that might feel the same way and don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the game to this day (even with all the emote, weapon skin crap and the somewhat toxic player base), I just have a lot more headaches to deal with when it comes to sitting down and booting this game up and trying to teach other people how to adapt and overcome the brutal challenges that this game now holds.
Mate, the fact that you are focusing so much on how many kills you have in a game is exactly what this video is about and why Squad has gone to shit. This is NOT Battlefield where the goal is to click as many heads as possible. This is supposed to be a tactical realistic military shooter. The community would be so much better if there was more focus on coordination rather than KDR. I get that many love the casual gameplay from Battlefield and COD, but Squad is not about that and should have never been about that.
@@sbef 100% agree with everything you say. I was more of speaking in past tense which I should've made more clear but also when I was talking about kdr, I left out probably the most important part which is I always play the objective weather I'm defending a point or have my squad attacking, etc. I am not one of those lone wolf type people I just enjoyed the pre ICO gunplay and it really has no effect on me than lower kill games and lower fps due to PIP scopes which doesn't bother me at all. The most enjoyable part of Squad to me is when everything works (Communication, strong tactics, good squad, etc) and most of the time if I'm not playing with my group it usually all falls apart if I try leading a squad full of people who still don't understand how to adapt Post ICO but I'll keep trying until more people eventually either burn out or shine.
the infantry overhaul sucks. in fact it was so bad that the leader of the official discord server publicly bribed others to give good reviews in order to receive leaks and other rewards. which goes against steams rules. if youhave a game where you have to bribe people to give positive reviews youve got a bad game.
They actually allowed them to go standalone (no source code or commercial rights) since thousands of people bought the game just to play PR, it was like a reverse DLC. The engine was not half bad and BF 2142 actually had major improvements yet. Too bad, but they learned to work around it.
The amount of competent players started to reduce with A10 Aka "ICO lite" which OWI tried to fill in the gaps with constant free weekends and sales, until they back peddled with A12 to try bring some vets back. Then constant back and forth and no real direction of where they were going kept veterans slowly leaving and then kept bringing in new players with sales, which also added more frustration to the veterans already dealing with the constant bipolar game shifts. Then full release happened with the free weekend an sales with it and massively exploded the player count, making what little vets were left, being outnumbered 10 to 1 by the noob horde, causing more vets to stop playing. Then the ICO happened, again with sales, and more noobs and more vets leaving. Now the playerbase is made up of few veterans on copium hoping more tweaks come, a few 40 year old PR old heads trying to relive their larpers wetdream from their youth and a then a huge horde of noobs that just frustrate everyone. It's nothing to do with Battle Field and it's players, it the decision making of OWI and the constant bipolar changes causing their veterans to leave the game.
I have zero interest or care for people who don't like the ICO update and want old Squad back. This was exactly what Squad needed. This is not CoD or Battlefield or Fortnite or whatever lame-ass shooter you play. This is a game developed by war veterans in order to give a more down-to-Earth feeling of a military shooter and simulator. This game is NOT meant to reward the quickest flick of the trigger or the fastest turn on a corner, it is supposed to encourage teamwork and communication. If that's not what you are looking for in a shooter, then go play another one.
Game is still shit. They can't optimise it and playing the game feels like a chore since the community has become full of casuals who dont understand how to play the game
There are games that are absolutely amazing, every team is trying to play their best and it gives me this realistic feeling that I'm really part of a military family and I'm trying to cover my team, everyone is trying and then there's a game where nobody try the best, nobody knows how to lead a squad and it's a terrible experience. I've experienced like 10/300 games that were really worth it and I'll probably never forget the experience of those 10 games that I really remember to this day, where people listen to others and create the absolute best scenarios in Squad. But i know for sure, that these 10 games (approx 10hours) created something in me, that wants to play the game continuesly.
ive played squad since before vehicles, (yes, we had to run everywhere) The ICO is a great update, but to increase teamwork, why not give bonuses for staying within your squad mates? like reduced suppression while with your squad? increased suppression for shooting towards same target etc, increased stamina etc, I feel like that would actually directly reward teamwork.
Teamwork is already HEAVILY rewarded. Problem is pubbers don't come in with Squad mentality but yes with BF mentality. Further rewarding teamwork (in an anrcadey way that you propose which makes it not match the game's tone) would just further imbalance the random pubber squad vs stacked clan dynamic.
i love squad i have some amazing teams and then sometimes theres the squad leader who says nothing until 15 minutes in and asks whats our favorite movies, someone answers star wars and squad leader says "thats not valid answer you should have said something less popular" and no one talks in squad chat until the squad leader leaves and everyone starts celebrating... this feels to be more common that a good squad leader unfortunately
From an arma player, i dont see the issue in the ICO, squad currently is more similar to the arma series than battlefield, yet people haven't adjusted expectations
The problem is that squad already had the most weapon sway of any mainstream shooter before ICO was even released. Many of the players are former military so they are well aware that the games weapon accuracy went from a fair representation of an average shooter to afghani shitter (hold rifle over head while squating and go full auto) levels even if you had your stamina at max, bipod deployed, and were zeroed. It's simply immersion breaking and unrealistic. This is why most of the ICO hate comes from project reality/squad alpha players while people who like it are mostly those that came from battlefield. I am not sure why Slorgs disagrees, this is what the Devs themselves said in a softball interview with moidog. To be fair the devs have toned it down a LOT but I still often see players with low stamina not merely be incapable of hitting moving targets at 20 meters but legitimately recreating the rooftop shootout in Naked Gun 2 1/2 (seriously youtube it if you don't know). On the plus side I honestly haven't heard anyone complain about the suppression mechanics in game. Overall it is the best part about ICO along with the improvements to optics. Simply put the devs wanted to slow down gameplay and discourage solo combat engineers from destroying habs and infantry from running through open fields into machinegun nests. They did not succeed. This game is a unique experience because it encourages teamwork and lets people build defenses. The devs should be encouraging the strong points of the game, not punishing the players because some people aren't playing "The right way".
Ding ding ding, Its crazy that IRL i can shoot at anything and probably hit it if i can see it clearly but in game I feel like I'm shooting a musket and hoping my rounds hit.
I only played squad for 10h: I got persuaded to buy it after seeing footage of the ICO, downloaded it in 3 days because not everyone gets to live in the inner city of a first world country, spend most of my time trying to get into the game only to get booted out because of bugs or kicked (because my name was too short), then as you mentioned couldn't get into a good squad most of the time hence left having to play solo, spent most of my time being in a vehicle, building, running or defending an objective, and then either get shot by someone I never saw or shoot at someone who never saw me (and I've sunk 700h into tarkov so I ain't new to this). Then, whilst attempting to get into a game for about 10m, I closed squad, turned on insurgency and within 90 seconds of pressing 'play' on steam I was IN A GAME. Proceeded to uninstall later due to limited storage. ... I never even got to try out that ICO update because I quit before it came out.
The Infantry overhaul completely fucked the gameplay imo. I re-DL'd just to play the update and found I couldn't hit shit past like 10 yards with quick shots. I'm not opposed to slowing gunfights, making movements more careful, increasing reliance on squad members, etc., but when I can't hit shit at 5-10 yards while reacting to contact, it gets a little shitty.
I’ve been playing GEE far more than vanilla just because OWI dropped the ball with the ICO. Idk if you remember me, but I played the ICO with you during the playtests way back. I had my gripes but I overall enjoyed it. I enjoyed it because I had thought we’d have another 10 to 20 playtests to sort out the mechanics. But no, they dropped it after 7 or 8 tests. It needed tweaking badly. Coupled with the fact that most squads just don’t talk, the ICO has unfortunately left me with a sour taste for squad. It didn’t fix anything it set out to accomplish in any meaningful margin, the communication is just as awful, the gunfights instead of being short and fast firefights, are two guys randomly spraying in each others direction hoping to hit the target. Suppression is nice and so is the PiP scopes, but everything besides that is just un enjoyable.
I really like ICO. It turned the "sniper" fest into something more team based. It is far from perfect, I agree, but thanks to this update it even managed to re-convince my friends to download the game again. They claimed they had fun because "They can finally move and not get shot the moment they leave cover". Gun mechanics could still probably use some tweaking but as of my latest Squad session, I had nothing to complain about besides people. I cannot express how much I agree with the statement that players are mostly responsible for the quality of a match you will have. It is a constant issue of people wanting to be on the offence, driving straight to the objective, die to a vehicle, do not build HABs to spawn on and then complain the game is shit. Listen here, this is not Battlefield or Call of Duty. Logistics are actually important here. Game by game I ran into the same issue, no FOBs. Quite literally a few weeks ago, the only reason why we managed to hold the flag is because I followed some advice on how to build such FOBs; radio far away from the HAB. And man did it work, we managed to turn the game around. So to sum up, unless people change their mindset about the game, and try not to rush face first brains later into the enemy, then they will always complain that Squad sucks. I love this game, it deserves love and work. ICO improved the experience for me overall and nothing anyone says will change my mind.
Sniper fest? You dont see combat over 200 meters anymore unless its vehicle combat lol. I think the problem is Squad has a casual player base trying to play a tac shooter. So they consider getting shot at 400 meters by an ACOG user "sniping" because thats what it is in games like BF and COD. Which are sadly the Squad player bases standard of comparison. As long as its slightly less casual than BF theyre appeased. Most are unwilling to even try other tac shooters tout of fear of having that bubble burst. They dont consider thats what modern combat is like and entirely what most infantry units are designed for. Even logistics isnt very imporant. Compared to games like Reforger where you cant even take caps without logistics trains its just a joke. Feels thrown in just to exist but its barely crucial beyond setting up some HABs at the beginning of the match. Then you add in the fact that every played game mode is just a simple straight line push like BF and it becomes clear why people play it like BF. Because its designed as a BF clone and not an actual tac shooter. You cannot change how people play without changing the basic mechanics. People respond to the mechanics, not the other way around. If you rely on casual mechanics youre going to get casual play. If you make mechanics realistic youll get realistic playstyles. Squads just not holding up compared to Reforger. Once you play Reforger youll never go back. Actual dynamic game modes that encompass the whole map and actually feel like you're on a battlefield, players that dont feel like bots, you can actually hear enemy coms by stealing radios, open local chat is incredibly immersive, and having to navigate manually, it all just adds up to such a beautiful and immersive experience. Where as Squad by comparison feels like a spawn charge die simulator. Squad could redeem itself in my eyes by restoring INS to its PR era glory. Also just adding some new dynamic game modes like Reforger has. More punishing logistics would also be great. It costs nothing to spawn which is pretty dumb. In Reforger you need supply to spawn, you cant just indefinitely spawn/ Squad also fucked up by switching from PRs all combat included. PR had nam, ww2, modern combat, cold war combat, it was all there. Reforger does that well but Squads decided to branch off into other titles. It really just doesnt hold up by comparison. Once you play conflict Squad feels like a soulless game devoid of creative game design. Definitely feels like more of a corporate product designed to generate revenue vs a game trying to make money by doing something truly great and original.
@@Tinylittledansonman this isn’t a BF clone…..do u build any spawn points in battlefield or do u just spawn on your own squad mates…..big difference in game flow when u can just spawn on a squad mate not needing to build any kind of hab
@@africanricc3458 That's a really minor difference. BF with a couple extra steps is the best way to describe Squad. It has some of the most babyish handholding mechanics on the market. Cant even killed downed enemies lol so technically Fortnite is less forgiving and more realistic. Its hard to give Squad any credit now that Reforger is on the market and does the concept soooo much better and so much more realistically. Creating actual realistic gameplay lol. But like I said in another comment the Squad audiences only measure of comparison theyll actually accept is BF, which is a low standard. The denial has to stop at some point. Its been ridiculous. 10 years of blaming everything but the soft mechanics that dont demand realistic gameplay.
@@Tinylittledansonman nothing more than your OPINION man on who does what better. Very subjective when it comes to those smaller details. In MY opinion ARMA moves really STIFF, and always has….stiffer jittery movements…. when squad is running well, it runs really well and SMOOTH….and these mechanics have been done since ARMA 1 and people STILL play SQUAD heavily and nothing will change even if ARMA does it too…even the gunplay is just much better in SQUAD, and much smoother….just a better experience in MY OPINION but I like ARMA too……super un optimized but whatever right
This is so painfully accurate I love it and hate this all at the same time you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned their Ico being meant to increase cooperation between squads ending up doing the complete opposite free Ico definitely have more cooperation between squads and Squad leaders however some of the other improvements have been breathtaking I truly hope that they can bounce back and find that true Squad mystery that made Squad so amazing once before
My favorite thing about squad back in the day was how kind of.... boring it was? You would walk like 10 kilometers with your squad, talking and joking around, and then when you finally saw an enemy, it was basically like the most heart pounding exciting thing. Now its just so action packed and convoluted. It definitely feels like its becoming what it meant to counter- which is battlefield.
I disagree, i think even back then squad was very boring walking simulator ish. I think reducing the map size to basically like hell let loose fixes a lot of that.
Personally, I see both sides. I feel some changes implemented in the ICO are highly welcome and others I don’t like so much. But what bothers me is, in my opinion, generally what I have seen is ICO opposers seem to respectfully state their gripes and how they came to the opinion that they hold, whereas it seems a rather large amount (not all) of the ICO advocates default to ad hominem attacks against the opposers as opposed to bringing respectful and constructive dialogue to the table. For a community that is so polarized right now I feel that’s the exact opposite of beneficial, but hey that’s just my opinion. ICO opponent: “having fired these weapons myself I understand they are trying to encourage realistic gameplay by exaggerating weapon recoil and spread, but I find it to be to an excessive amount that for me, detracts from the gameplay and is less enjoyable than pre ICO” ICO Enjoyer “cope, seethe and mald stupid idiot, go back to running and gunning in COD because we don’t want you here anyways”. Some could argue that I’ve just perpetuated a straw man argument, but I’ve honest to god seen this exact interaction occur numerous times across different platforms. I know not every opposer is going to be so “gentlemanly” about it and not every advocate is gonna be so rude but it seems like that’s the majority. But hey, just my two cents.
Now its been a few months the ICO has really saved this game completely. Firefights are so much better now, teamwork has increased and matches feel like a real battle a lot more.
Here's what I don't get, and it isn't just Squad that does this, but how come "tactical shooter" now means your solider who went through training to shoot a gun and to be accurate while doing it somehow cannot control simple recoil? It feels like in order to make people play more as a team they decided to drop the accuracy so it becomes death by volume of bullets instead of actual tactics. Lets not even get too into the idea of how a BiPod doesn't actually stabilize your rifle. I do love the game and try and play as intended but when you play for an hour and can't hit anything even though you have the tactical advantage and the only thing that is truly stopping you is is a piece of code that makes your trained solider have the same skill level as a storm trooper from Star Wars it gets frustrating. In it's current state it is not a tactical shooter its a live fire exercise simulator.
I do just want to clarify, I am coming from shooting a lot, these guns do not behave like they would in the hands of a trained individual. I have not shot every gun that is featured in this game but the sway that is added and the lack of a predictable recoil pattern causes the game to not be realistic. Games like Ground Branch, and Ready or Not do the same thing where the increase the difficulty of staying on target. I love the suppression affect this is a great feature that promotes that team work (obviously only as good as the team you are with). I do not support perfectly flat "Battlefield" sight pictures but I think we are still locked in the over correction realm. Currently you are playing with soldiers who would have never made it out of basic training.
what i don't understand is why they couldn't just allow for community servers to choose between the two types of infantry combat versions they had. I'm definitely one of the players that enjoy the older combat model as with the overhaul many squad style strategies me and my buds had were ruined when we lost the element of surprise against of group of enemies as we tried to take them out whilst missing 60% of our shots. The overhaul imo doesn't seem to fix any of the bad communication and collaboration problems the game had if anything i feel as though it hinders them as in game modes like invasion advancing felt almost impossible as no one would want to move to be at a disadvantage during combat. This issue is the main reason i decide to play global escalation servers as they make the gunplay manageable even though its no where near comparable to prior ico times.
i think the next step is simple, we dont need to pray that dice and ea pull it together for squad to be good, we just need new player onboarding that actually exists and doesn't hinge on experienced players passing down knowledge. in public servers, any role that isn't the rifleman and medic should be locked until a tutorial is completed. building on that, you shouldn't be allowed into the crewmen seats of heavy vehicles until you complete tutorials dedicated to those, and so on.
I stopped playing long ago because server owners are awful people, the combat loop is awful and you get perma banned and get blacklisted from every server simply because the server owners want to play with your friends and kick and ban you to free up server space
The big problem , is not the ico by itself (for sure i also hate this noodle arms ) , its the vets , who have left the game because the hate this update . Just tweak ico and the gameplay will be a way better when both sides , the ico lovers and the haters can play the game .
I will say that I do want Squad to be closer to project reality but I also think that it is kind of ridiculous that guns like the M249 are completely uncontrollable. As someone who shot the 249 in real life, it isn't nearly as bad as the game can make it out to be not to mention the fact that lethality should be a part of the game. I don't think making it harder to kill people was the solution to making the game more realistic. I think they rather need to take a bigger page from Arma if that's what they want to do (but as you said in the video, the game is very confused about what direction its trying to go in lol).
the beauty of the m249 is that it is 5kg and fires 5.56. It has virtually no recoil because of the weight of the gun. Walking will add some, but it is still made to be a lower recoil weapon.
The thing about the ICO update is that it's not about the gunplay, the suppression is great, you get shot at you put your head down and try to work with your team it incentivizes teamwork it's great. People that don't like it just don't communicate with others well and are the same people that are silent in game and get mad when they get gunned down when they go off by themselves.
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think arma reforger is better than squad now. Especially with the right mods. It’s more approachable than arma 3 was and looks so much better.
Brilliant analysis on this, from figuring why the game has taken this path, from not blaming anyone nor the game. Talking about similar games. What are your thoughts about Arma Reforger in the middle of all this?
I wonder if Squad needs to do something like what War Thunder has, and have an arcade and realistic gamemode. Arcade would appeal to the players who prefer the Battlefield style of gameplay, while the realistic would give the players who want the OG Project Reality experience.
OWI held multiple play tests for the community on the test version of the game to get feedback for the ico. And the feedback OWI got from these play tests where overwhelmingly positive. The people who don't like the changes are most likely Battlefield players, and are a small vocal minority. So for them I hope the next Battlefield game is good.
You are just wrong. The reason they didn't get much negative feedback from the ICO was that most people who saw videos of the first playtest didn't bother downloading any of the ICO playtests because the weapon handling looked like aids. Then they released it and all those people who weren't interested in noodle arm gameplay lost their shit. Hence the negative review bombing.
@@DaveCleasc You didn’t even have to download the play test to give your opinion on the ico. And if it was so unpopular they wouldn’t have made the changes, but they listens to the majority of the community and the most dedicated fans. The fact is that the changes are good for the community, they increase teamwork and make some roles like the machine gun actually useful for the squad. I do feel bad for you for disliking the ico but you are in the minority.
After they rolled back most of the handling issues I started playing again. And the game has barely changed since ICO, as is stated in this video. Besides the suppression, the only difference is you find more people laying prone under a bush, whereas before ico they would have been standing.
@@DaveCleasc why would they change the ico? They just changed it to the ico. So your mad that people are not just shift W attacking or defending witch is one of the reasons for the implication of the ico.
What? I didn't say anything like that. The ICO has been severely nerfed. The terrible noodle arms handling is almost gone. Thinking this is a positive thing doesn't mean I'm a cod run and gun player.
What, you expect people to play like it's 1990 text based mutli user dungeons all over again? Where nothing is explained and all left to explore by yourself? Where one has to pay attention to a leader and follow orders? Where actual team play wins matches?! Are you insane?! Most gamers have an attention span of a fruit fly. You have to gate the experience like Arma 3 does, where only the most patient and inquisitive players survive the initial learning curve. Only then you get the gameplay you seek. Sad but true
The saddest thing in the world is that all this Squad players calling themselves veterans have never experienced all this emotions that Project Reality gives... And have no idea what this game should have been... All of them was playing wrong game for so many years because Squad devs decided that they are smarter and can go their own way.
The main reason games nowadays don't have direction is that they try to pander to everyone, rather than focusing on a core playerbase. There's a reason why ARMA 3 is still the king of military shooters, cuz there is freedom to tailor the experience to a core group
I have absolutely ZERO faith in DICE ever releasing a good Battlefield game ever again. Battlefield V was bad and somehow Battlefield 2042 was even worse. As long as OWI maintains course I think Squad will only get better.
Feel free to check out the GoFundMe - gofund.me/a354597f - Also thanks for watching!
Im first
You need to play on german servers when you Wann Team play the Even gona talk English with you and you have every game at least 3 sqauds where mic is aqauired play on ❤❤❤❤we live squad germany❤❤❤❤ something like that its calles the have 4 5 servers with god Importent rules but just go on at least 1 god german servers with mic needed trust me its something eles
@@jackcentral6321 congrats. literally no one asked
that twist was wholesome as shit. best of luck to her. cheers for making me feel feelings lol
@@flyingpenguin157 haha thanks you're welcome
>This video's sponsor
War Thunder? A VPN? Raid Shadowlegends?
>My girlfriend
LOL this kid is a boomer shooter and a simp XD , The ico is the best thing that's ever happened.
Starcraft 2 terran Master top ten , and the ico id say is the only thing keeping any semblence of strategy in the game
Not even Wife or Mother of my child , imagine if she bangs CHAD at theater school after he grifted on YT . Instead of buying himself a house
He literally has been sponsored by Raid, look at his Community Feed.
@@MachinedFace88ttv you still think chivalry is dead
@@fiveggigawhaaahtgaming1926 not with this many White Knights ! Lol
What you describe is the PR experience doe. Wait in a queue, fiddle around till round ends, rush to join 1st mic inf squad etc. I’ve found once I get into a good squad at the beginning of round then Each game after is fine.
the thing is best squad you can get is max 4 people speaking and SL doesn't even mind if you have mic or not, got the sniper kit or you are alone or not. And these are the best ones you can find. Command squads, clan squads. Everyone plays the game but no one actually wants it. And omfg thst optimization
Youd have to have played in its heyday to understand. PR used to be more like Squad where no squad would accept you without a mic. The functioning insurgency mode is the main thing missing from Squad. Squads incredibly repetitive by comparison. Rush to build HAB, charge obj, die, respawn, repeat. INS was basically PRs realistic mode with AAS being its BF thing. In Squad its all BF clone game modes. No creativity. I also just preferred PRs gunplay system even though it was so dated. It rewarded you for good positioning and moving slow and punished for running around. The ICO is just punishment and nothing else. I always thought it was ironic as it was praised for nerfing high skill players but it did the opposite for us. Every match feels the same and it gets really stale as most players can barely aim and feel like bots.
@@VoRMiTTiah yes the most useless and hated role in all of squad… the marksman and sniper role
Mic check at the beginning of the round..
I feel like this issue would be resolved if they made SL a more approachable position.
After 200+ hours, I still do not dare to be an SL. Perhaps if they added better in-game tutorials, such as one that explained how to lead a squad, recommended tactics, and explained faction differences (such as how some factions get 2 HABS per FOB), it would make more players feel more comfortable taking up that role.
Summary:
Shots 1-5: Clearly missed.
Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).
Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses.
Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because Slorgs was already dead.
Tarkov copypasta, how i missed you
@@somedude5119this isn't tarkov copypasta my friend, this is Counter Strike
@@somedude5119this copypasta is older than tarkov 🤨
@@mistrkill Erm actauely its from Call of Duty 3
@@alecz3843 Bet someone remembers reading it in a COD 1 forum
Squad is the game where i had both my best ever, and worst ever first person shooter experience. When it's great, it's the best and most immersive thing in the world, with group of people communicating and cooperating with each other.... and then the next round you end up with people that just run and gun... then it becomes the worst...
Tbh it's the same for me in battlefield. Lot of people in general just don't want to work together.
I get alot of games where people don't look at their map after a push and go "oh maybe I should fall back to the point." and just keep pushing into... nothing... It's very rare to find a team that understands how to defend and how valuable it is to defend.
I mean thats kind of a problem every game has, if people are working together and playing the way its meant to be played its great, but there are always a lot of people that don't really care and just run around.
@@Gigopz Every game has this problem, but not in every game you need team to have fun. In Squad, you do.
@@damgam98 I mean in every team based shooter you do, unless it's something like an arena or extraction shooter.
My relationship with squad for the past 7 years has been .... complicated
Accurate
The beauty of squad being a huge mess is I’ve branched out to other games, especially single player, that i never would have played before.
I beat Cyberpunk which was my first RPG ever. I relax in RDR2 and just got into XCom2 (so hard!).
Squad is a bipolar gf that’s past her prime. The memories are there but each interaction is brief and a reminder to do something else with your life instead.
Squad, that abusive relationship you cannot get out of and don't want to get out of ❤
Its just turned into a community riddled with permanent cope. The game and mechanics simply arent that realistic and don't demand realistic play from the player. SLs and CMDs are generally the biggest thing to blame as they get so easily tunnel visioned and don't seem to focus on making sure their Squad survives and most importantly, can dominate firefights. Its been what like 10 years of blaming new players and rambos. At a point you have to get over that cope and realize you are to blame. You are RPIng too hard in what is essentially a tacticool BF clone. Like it or not thats what Squads mechanics and most importantly game modes boil down to. If you play RAAS or AAS realistically you will lose every match. Its much better just to place a convenient HAB in the center of the map and let the horde flood, thats how you win. Expecting players to play to lose because realism is just insane. Players react to game mechanics, not the other way around.
But Im sure people will just keep blaming new players like they have for the past 10 years now lol. Squads basically turned into new players blaming new players for the game not being an actual tac shooter. OWIs really cultivated an audience of highly compulsive fanboy types. They basically want to do the same thing every match, always know what to expect, always feel like an expert and so on. You just cant have that and have a tac shooter. The thing I find wild with the Squadience is they almost insist more on creating chaotic, cinematic frontlines over organized small Squad gameplay. If you start devising ways to really just stomp the enemy in every firefight and roll over the enemy team like its nothing people get mad. But if effective tactics are bad why even play a tac shooter? If you arent devising the most terrible ways imaginable to fuck people up why are you playing this type of game? Among Us exists and is exactly what people seem to want from Squad. Also why cant people admit the focus of tactics and warfare is to kill the enemy at a higher ratio than they kill you at so you can take crucial areas? Why are those areas crucial? Because they enable you to continue killing the enemy at a higher ratio than they can kill you at. Its really odd.
Realistically the "kills dont matter" attitude is just incompatible with a combat focused tac shooter. The whole "just be a body in a circle" mentality will always ruin games like this. If your goal isnt to eliminate the enemy and clear the area for your own operations youll never have the basic foundation of a tac shooter in general and youll always have a BF style "body in a circle" shooter. When I SL and I see certain players can really dominate and rack 10 tickets for every death I dont just let them, I try to help them up those numbers. Sadly most of the community isnt like that. Its a kind of identity issue thing. Theyre too "tacticool" to even consider killing the enemy is the core goal of combat operations. The mechanics definitely demand this though which is really the major issue. If it cost supply to spawn Squad would probably play the way people wanted. Either that or limit HABs per match, you just cant have this type of infinite spawn gameplay and any semblance of realism or immersion. Im sure at this point weve all attacked mass spawn HABs and its just not fun or immersive gameplay. Its complete BF clone with some extras thrown in.
@@Tinylittledansonman sanest comment ever
I'll grant you that the M249 should be more controllable even when standing. The recoil and sway is a little ridiculous for a gun that was specifically designed to be used both from the shoulder and the bipod.
Dawg, the m249 is baddass
There's a video of a marine laying down fire down some street in Afghanistan or some place, he fires the entire fuckin box in one hold of the trigger, and it didn't magically start flying to the sky lul, I think of it everytime I see the recoil in squad
@insultinsultan yeah, but how else do you simulate combat stress or stop people from playing like it was CoD?
@@buckplug2423 true, its a helluva problem, I aint the genius to figure it out tell ya that much
Yes, but the point is to encourage use of suppression and fire and move tactics with the MG, not just being a better rifle
If any of you had actually shot a M249 SAW you would know the recoil is not even close to being that bad. It’s like fucking butter. Even standing it’s nothinggggg like it is in game.
exactly. Thats what Im saying, If you stand and shoot a rifle it doesnt sway all over the place like this update . Its ridiculous.
Yeah I too can confirm
@@tommyhammer4301 I watched all the videos about this new update on UA-cam and Reddit. I hadn't played Squad for well over a year and a half and decided to give it a shot again. Played for maybe 10 minutes and uninstalled it. It just doesn't make sense. I'll probably will never play it again because of the mess its become. Realistic my ass, there's nothing realistic about it.
@@maybeasinner8007it's not about being realistic tho.... It's about making the gameplay slower....
@@XionTRAX That doesnt justify it you know? I mean many many people have liked the new changes and the player base has grown ever since but for me, nah, I've had my fair share of hunderds of hours of gameplay and I think that should be it. Maybe I can get myself to like my noodle arms and the fact that me, an untrained 21 year old can handle an AK-47 better than a trained soldier someday.
to everyone who doesn’t like ICO, seems like a skill issue to me
as someone who played since 2015, ICO is the best update squad has ever received.
I still suck at the game after the ICO and I love it. Wouldn't want it any other way.
100% agree
The ICO is so good, u get to enjoy a full squad match with 2 kills more than 20kill match
Some people just like easy things. Even if it makes the game pointless to play with very little achievement
I recently got back into squad after a couple months off and I’ve been sticking to the Global Escalation mod. After the recent update it received, I find that being able to hear the enemy voice chat is a much better way to encourage teamwork than the ICO. If you are spread out with random players not in your squad, the only way to communicate is using the local chat, which the enemies can hear. This encourages sticking to your squad so you can communicate in squad chat without the enemy hearing what you are doing.
GE is a blast but be careful, the puritans will go crazy when they learn you aren’t playing the Devs true vision. It is holy and true, any criticism is heresy
Having a character able to lift 4,5kg without shaking like a toddler is Very nice
@@Jduekengnfr
The characters being able to aim a gun without shaking intensly is more realistic than vanilla squad. In Squad they also made the peripheral blurry when you aim a scope, the thing is, in real life if you aim down a scope you can still move your eyes around. And ingame, the 'peripheral' is still blurred by your eyes in real life unless you're looking at it, so it's just useless.
@@KristiansDravnieks Damn right brother.
Bf3 reality mod is pretty good if you can handle 10 crashes per game
If you can handle no one playing it
@@lordwhippleton9734 games every Saturday and Sunday (morning US) - times on the UKF discord
It's not that much, stop crying :P
Is anyone playing bf3 pr? I installed it around half a year or maybe a year ago and the largest game I found had 10 people in it
@@jacobantaya7423yeah it has lower player count during the weekdays but the weekend has over 30 + players and improves every 3-4 months
The biggest problem with ICO is that it did not achieve anything to improve gameplay. Run and gun still exists, lone wolfing is still easy, and the loop of spawn shift+W die repeat is still alive and well.
Vics dominate pubs now, MGs are garbage, and point firing is inconsistent at best, unusable at its worst.
And for all those who wanna say “skill issue”, save your breath. I heard enough of that back when ICO was supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Exactly, I’m sick of all the apologists
Funny how everyone who disagrees with this are all people with 0 military experience or knowledge. They just run with the limited and inaccurate info parroted by the ico supporters. Things like LMG’s are only for suppressing, ignoring the fact that they’re actually supposed to be the most lethal gun in the squad, with suppression being a close secondary. Or that it’s for some reason impossible to aim while moving (they have never touched a rifle and move at the same time). It’s just so cringe
@@Deuces0810 ikr, I hate how they tried to make MG’s lean more towards suppression even though they aren’t all about that irl
@@polskabalaclava you guys are missing the point though. While yeah, if you don't take advantage of the new systems, the game will play mostly the same... but if you join a decent squad or lead your own, you can absolutely take advantage of the mechanics and have an absolute great time. It literally is a skill issue. MG's are AMAZING now, they just work differently... they aren't full auto snipers anymore, you cant quickly 1 tap people anymore, you have to actually shoot it like an MG. They're also usable as suppression weapons now without risk of getting head peaked headshot immediately. The point firing is more innacurate than it should be when moving, but if stationary its much more accurate. Vics have always dominated pubs and they're a problem, they either throw your game or dominate your game, very often.
So again... if you want to enjoy what ICO has to offer, you need to play more as a tight squad with better comms. Stop expecting others to do it for you, make a squad on a decent server, stay close to eachother, and communicate together. As a PR player I've played Squad since the very beginning, and while the playerbase isn't near as good as PR, when you get a decent squad it's amazing.
@@huntervegas4548 well it’s hard to make a difference when no one listens to you and everyone does their own thing + entire team is failing
The only thing I don’t like about this game unfortunately is a large amount of the people who play it. It feels like I have to get extremely lucky to join a server that has competent squads. I feel like the majority of the time it’s squad leaders who don’t talk or start a squad and leave after 5 mins. I’ll be SL every now and then but I just get so tired of it and want to play other roles.
I feel that. People keep saying ICO increased the team work. Yet so often I'm forced to play squad lead due to my hours and no one else wanting to play. I get tired of trying to organize people and just want my rifleman kit and nade spam.
check out skira
Ico was suppposed to increase team work, unfortunately games that actually require teamm work are niche so it got marketed as more cod like.@humbleguardsman5578
Agreed. I don't consider myself an experienced player, yet I will still most often join "milsim / experience preferred" servers because I have no idea what's going on in "new player friendly" servers since there's almost never any leadership or callouts. I definitely understand the game a lot more in a milsim server where the SL gives accurate and concise descriptions of what's happening and what we're doing.
@@humbleguardsman5578 you should def try arma 3 then. People are a lot more competent
Squad definitely is not perfect, but the biggest problem are the players. I have been playing the game for quite a few years and put almost a thousand hours into it, had plenty of great, even matches lasting for hours and in the end one team winning by just a few tickets.
Getting games coordinated and played well and seriously as that is quite rare though, big reason are all the new blueberries running around, the people not following commands, wandering off doing their own thing.
Servers with the "Experience preferred" tag should be able to filter out players with a total play time lower than X hours. Something like that would probably make more matches more bearable.
Blaming players for Squad's problems is a lazy cop-out. It's the devs' job to make the game engaging and idiot-proof, not the players'. It’s like blaming patients for not getting better when their doctor hands them a WebMD leaflet instead of providing actual treatment. Expecting players to self-organize into a well-oiled machine without properly explained and streamlined game mechanics is as ludicrous as expecting a fish to climb a tree. Maybe instead of gatekeeping with "Experience preferred" tags, developers should focus on not making a game that needs a PhD in jank to enjoy.
Playing SL I can confirm this. Aids as fuck playing with 3/9 of my Squad. Hope the playerbase improves.
@@sahmuss1164 So tell me exactly how developers can force players to cooperate and listen to their squadleaders micromanagement, tell me exactly how that is going to work out from the developers end. Are we gonna bring in some sort of Counter Strike-like cooldown system if you do not move to your fireteams move-mark, or if you dont launch an assault on the attack-mark?
Squad developers can only do so much to try and make the playerbase engage in teamwork, the ICO is an example of what they can do - and it's not working because the playerbase are simply too stupid or simply seeking an "arcady" style of gameplay.
@@eklodry6495
Ah, the classic blame-the-player narrative, where apparently it's all on the gamers for not magically grasping the convoluted mechanics of the game. Listen, the real issue here is that the game does a spectacular job of hiding vital information like it’s the nuclear launch codes. We're talking about a user interface that is as intuitive as a hedge maze with no exit.
For starters, newcomers are tossed into the deep end without a life vest-how are they supposed to understand the significance of their roles when the game communicates these details with all the clarity of a fogged-up windshield? It's a wild guesswork game of figuring out objectives, spawn mechanics, and, oh, the delightful clutter of the map that might as well be a modern art piece for all its usefulness. Don't even get me started on the complexities of being a Squad Leader and their responsibilities. Even shit like Radio placement, HAB Placement, Fortifications and Emplacements or even the nuances of stamina management. The learning curve isn't just steep; it's practically vertical when the game makes no effort to naturally teach you these things. And Let’s not gloss over the gem that is Jensen's Range, a tutorial so thrilling it could cure insomnia. If the goal was to leave players bewildered and unprepared, then congratulations to the developers-they've outdone themselves.
So sure, go ahead and pin it all on the players. That's definitely going to polish the game's image and not at all hasten its decline. Because nothing says "successful game" like a player base lost in the weeds of poor game design blaming each other for their confusion. Keep up that attitude; it's clearly working wonders for the community engagement.
@@sahmuss1164 All good points, but the main comment was about how their teammates were not following commands and were wandering off doing their own thing. I don't think it's that complicated to listen to basic orders from your Squad Leader and even if you didn't know how to do something, you could just always ask the more experienced people in your team. At the end of the day, yes, the learning curve is pretty hard, but maybe actually playing and coordinating with your team rather than going solo is a good step forward into playing and enjoying the game.
Consider how illogical it is for a game named *"Squad"* to lack a built-in party matchmaking system that enables you to consistently team up with your group of friends. It's utterly absurd.
wait you cant invite friends to play?
@@perseus1293 you cannot. there are no dedicated servers, all the servers are ran by the community. its ridiculous.
@@sahmuss1164 wtf
@@sahmuss1164 what are you talking about.... this is how like every video game ran before 2015
@@perseus1293it's a bit misleading. You CAN create a private squad and you CAN invite your friends into it. However, there are some caveats.
1) You need to join the same server, and there is no pre-server lobby (where you can group up and join the server simultaneously) like in CS/Valorant/BF/etc. And finding a server empty enough for your whole group is nearly impossible, they are either full or empty.
2) Once all of your party join a server, they need to be on the same team. Again, can be challenging, because there is an autobalance system in place, that forbids you to change sides if the other side has >= players, than yours. So, if the server is full (50-50), then you will have to wait until someone on another team leaves. You'll also have to change sides fast enough, because another player will join in like 10 seconds and will take your slot.
This is exactly how I’ve been feeling about squad. It’s so tough because squad has given me gaming experiences no other game has topped. To me, Squad is at its best when played as a social military roleplaying sim between two teams that build defensive positions and cooperate with other squads to achieve strategic goals.
Squad is really not about kills, or who wins. The most fun comes from the organic and extremely dynamic ‘set piece’ battles over objectives. When both teams fight in realistic and coordinated ways it creates some unforgettable experiences. Sadly over time the player base changed and it’s became less and less common.
These days it’s normal that one team will not build a single HAB and get steamrolled.
Its a game of coordination to me. On invasion games, if the defense all sticks together and sets up to defend one point, they usually win. If the attackers all load up in armor and drop directly on the point, they usually win. The defenders lose if they have half the team in the rear building some terrible "super" fob, and the attackers lose if they have IFVs acting as (ineffective) artillery
@@timallenfanclubofficial true it is all coordination. Even if you want your IFVs to push up and engage enemy infantry at close range, the IFV will get smoked by AT if it doesn’t have friendly infantry support. Even if you want to defend the objective, it can be impossible without good logistics bringing fresh squads and resources to the front.
Another thing is artillery, it takes patience, pre-planning and excellent communication skills, but if you manage to call out targets successfully and get accurate mortar fire pounding an enemy position before you and your guys launch an assault it’s just so much fun.
@@timallenfanclubofficialI love the super fobers. Granted I usually switch to the attacking team in invasion. But there's just something enduring about spending all that time and energy building something that will be destroyed by one command asset.
@@jacobantaya7423 I think they should have a game mode like hell let loose where the map is smaller and more compact so objectives are much more nearer.
One of my favorite things of Squad is loading up to the Server browser, seeing 10 different servers with the same few map rotations with a queue of 20+ meanwhile there's plenty of servers with simialar ping that are at 30 people... that and running into someone who is trying to play COD (he had Squad and COd opened and played both)
There’s only two things I wish they would reel in a bit on the ICO.
Reduce flinching from single shots from infantry using rifles. Because sometimes it feels like you exchange rounds (if firing at each other at range) for a full minute till someone luckily lands a hit. Like a flinch battle.
And reduce or remove having no sight picture after running and aiming. It’s not fun dying after aiming and seeing a black scope. Just have a heap of sway or something, but no sight picture just doesn’t feel good.
I don't know who the hell is pushing this mechanic( besides suppression) that ruined combat in the game. Interestingly, the ArmA series itself doesn't have this mechanic and never will. And you know why, because it was done by actual ex-soldiers who understood weapons and other things. At one time, my friends who go to shooting ranges wanted to buy a squad before ICO, but when ICO came out, they completely lost interest in the game because they thought the aiming mechanics were completely stupid. I go to shooting ranges and I find the aiming mechanics unrealistic. If anyone thinks it's supposed to improve squad communication they're sorely mistaken, the thing that's changed the most about squad is the suppression of gunfire and aiming, nothing else, maybe more lone players.
“But muh soldiers carrying 40kg and running for miles!!1” these people say until you bring up this thing they teach you in military called *Stress Shooting*
I have split opinions on the ICO. I have over 3000 hours on Arma, so keep in mind I like tactical shooters. I understand the need to slow down gameplay, it is a tactical shooter. But on the other hand, it feels artificial. I do sympathize with the counterclaim of "if you were running full speed for half a kilometer, you would be tired as well" but the shooting is simply not at all realistic. I am by no means a "tacticool" shooter who goes out to shoot every weekend, but I can shoot guns more accurately than the trained soldiers in Squad. I think the issue of the ICO comes down to nerfing individual impact so severely, that it feels artificial. A trained soldier would have better gun control than those in Squad. This is where I think the majority of anger comes from. It isn't hard because it is "realistic" but is instead hard to punish players who would otherwise have an outsized impact on the game.
For full transparency, pre ICO my squad of friends were always easily dropping 100+ kill games as a squad of 3-5 individuals. Now, having 100+ kills is an outlier. This isn't because we play full Battlefield and run and gun, it came down to superior tactics and positioning. But because the ICO punishes individual impact, if our squad gets suppressed or countered at all, everything falls apart. This encourages what some call "blueberry balls" where in order to do anything, you need the entire team.
As controversial as this idea is, I think the solution is reverting mostly to pre-ICO gunplay, but keeping the suppression. In Squad's current state, the gunplay feels artificially punishing and incentivizes behavior that is antithetical to the real purpose of the ICO.
I know this comment won't change anything, but I really care about this game and would like it to revert to a state that rewards individual skill more. We all started as green and unaware, but the ICO seems to have put a ceiling on one's potential growth as a soldier in the game.
It's rare to see a comment written by an actual human being. You're right, a great way to put it, squad artificially punishes players who would otherwise have an outsized impact on the game. I think the problem is fundamentally that this was exactly their goal, and to revert the changes would be to change goals. I personally like a game that favours the team over the individual but for people who don't I can see the frustration.
@@slorgsI'm in the exact same camp, 2k hours in Arma 3, 2k hours in Arma 2 DayZ, 2k in CS ect ect.. I feel I understand what makes games fun and competive. I used to play with guys where dropping 100 kills as a squad wasn't much of a stretch, I myself would hit 30-40 most games with 67 being my inf record, but I have the self awareness that the ICO was aimed squarely at my type, and I understand why. You know what, that got boring when the enemy team got wiped at nearly every engagement.
So I stopped playing due to the tactical & strategic skill gap being so large in public games, as most games it's was possible to out smart & stomp the enemy without trying just by simply rushing somewhere at game start, wiping a squad and a wee bit manoeuvring, all the 1 tap headshots was the cherry on top.
I honestly hoped the ICO would put the fun back into downimg 40-50+ blueberries in pub games, oh boy was I wrong about OWIs vision for the game. It made the game truly horrible to play at any pace other than a snails pace..
That's where I drew the line and fully gave up with the game, the devs don't fully understand what made squad so enjoyable at the higher skills levels where they destroyed a respectable competive scene & organised friendly events such as CCFN in one fowl swoop. Now it's flooded with apprentice blueberrys with no chance of graduating to blueberry status, let alone SL or god forbid commander.
All the skilled players are still here, waiting for OWI to pull the finger out and create a game where new players are not severely punished for every single tatical mistake and skilled players and not nurffed so far into the ground it's actually more fun to touch grass...
My one argument would be this infatuation people have with "trained soldiers." What does that mean? Soldiers in every faction, and even within the subfactions, would realistically have vastly different levels of training and proficiency with firearms and even tactical training and experience:
Insurgents probably have none to minimal quality training with weapons and tactics, realistically they should lose just about every straight up fight they would take part in in game, spraying rounds all over the place with old poorly maintained weapons and gear. Militia might be a bit better if we say they are probably made up of a lot of former military dudes, but even then the level of expertise would probably be all over the place and they would be just a bit better than other irregular forces. Russian forces are pretty much all made up of large groups of conscripts who may or may not get some field and range time. I cannot speak to other conventional forces, but I think most people who complain are overestimating the amount of actual range time and tactical training US regulars get. The active duty probably shoots a few times a year if that, most time in the field seems to be mostly maneuver and sitting around and setting up or tearing down camp. Apart from using crew served, automatic, or other heavy weapons I'd expect civilians who actually go to the range multiple times a month or year and take care of and work on their own guns to be more proficient with firing and grouping. Then there's at least one National Guard subfaction and its suspension of disbelief to think they are these pseudo navy seal/ CoD protagonists that anti-ICO guys image trained soldiers are who have immaculate spray control.
There's a reason why PR is considered the best milsim experience... and it's because of it's community and it's own version of ICO (which is much worse than sway).
You're wrong my dude. Individual players can still have just as much of an impact. The only reason it's harder to get as many kills is because the game is slower and the TTK is technically longer. More fights play out like actual firefights, where people miss shots and have to do more than just out aim people. Suppress them, then flank them, fire and move, etc... Pre-ICO was almost purely about getting the drop on your enemy and shooting before they do, that's it.... the aiming was in the same style of Battlefield or CoD, with very fast TTK, making the game EXTREMELY noob friendly.
The only real issue I have with ICO is how little stamina you get... You only have a short amount of sprint time before you go below half and get punished with weapon sway, but if you stay above half stam, you can get perfectly accurate long range shots off after just waiting 3 seconds... and UNLIKE in project reality, you can shoot before those 3 seconds if you're a good shot and work with the sway. (In PR, it was random bullet deviation, and you literally can't play around it at all).
You guys are just playing the game wrong. It's now a sniper fest where everyone just clicks heads now, there's much more depth to it. Get okay with missing shots, understand suppression, use fire and move tactics, and you can get some of the most intense teamwork gameplay possible in a video game. ICO was the best thing to happen to milsims, and people who disagree honestly just have not thought about it while putting their bias of subjective enjoyment to the side.
@@huntervegas4548 >people who disagree honestly just have not thought about it while putting their bias of subjective enjoyment to the side.
You mean the part that is literally the most important part of a game? The thing that we all play for? That moment of bliss that people get when they play a game? That thing? You want us to set it aside so that ... we can somehow enjoy the game without it?
There is no fun in a game that took away one of the major parts of it that made it fun. Just because your priorities look different does not mean that my priorities are somehow "bad" or "wrong".
I like what ICO tried to do. But I feel it's all just a bit too much, the noodle arms piss me off too much. Every weapon has too much sway and recoil and the jump from laser beam pre-ICO to grapeshot post ico makes me not like the game anymore. It's all just about bearable until you move 15m and can't hit past 25m without a tea break. The game is getting a little better but the massive inaccuracy you get in CQB and then the new damage nerfs again makes it more frustrating than satisfying. This is just my opinion but in a lot of ways, it's the most unrealistic realism update ever.
ICO's intention was never to be "realistic." It's the fans that keep saying "this is not realistic," when OWI never claimed it to be the goal of it, ever.
It's to promote teamwork and communication and discourage lone wolfing. Unless you have a better alternative, then this is probably the direction they should go.
@@lilfuzzballa well thats a retarded reason
@@lilfuzzballafr this people don't deserve any right on opinions at this point
Just look how the game was when devs DID listen to this mf 😂
@lilfuzzballa if a mechanic doesn't fall into the categories: fun; realistic. Then why have that mechanic at all? To make the game harder? Real life is already plenty hard, not sure you need harder than that. To 'incentivise teamwork'? How exactely does this achieve that? Surely not being able to hit sht just makes me more likely to solo sneak around the enemy and fk with their back infrastructure. There is never a reason to ever have a mechanic in a shooter that doesn't exist for either fun or realism.
@@dob_z ICO is a mechanic to de-incentivize players lone wolfing. Pre ICO made splitting off from your Squad, flanking the enemy where they a unaware, 1 tap shot a few unsuspecting enemies, sprint your way, to a new position, and 1 tap a couple more, as if you were John Wick. Of course that's fun for the the average FPS player. But OWI is not wanting to make just another typical FPS game for the average player.
That's not OWI's original idea for Squad. They want players to actually feel the need to rely on each other to be effective. You need a couple players suppressing, while others move to an advantageous position to kill the enemy. They want you to communicate, cover friendlies, while others sprint to position. Everything that ICO changed, was intended to reward this kind of play.
So sure, just having bad aim, and massive recoil doesn't sound fun in a vacuum, but in the context of Squad, the goal is to slowly shift the meta to players finding out that trying to play it like COD is not effective.
Eventually all the Battlefield refugees and casual FPS players expecting gunplay to work like every other game will get frustrated enough that they either leave or learn to adapt. Which will eventually leave Squad with a community that want to play tactically. And to these types of players, playing slow and tactical is FUN for them.
So in an indirect way ICO exists in order to cultivate a kind of fun for a niche crowd. Also you are so wrong about mechanics needing to be fun or realistic in FPS games. For one, what is considered "FUN" is highly subjective, and secondly, there are a lot of mechanics and design decisions implemented in games that are not technically fun from a surface level, but exist to facilitate a certain meta or balance, in order for the game to be more enjoyable.
This is also happening to Battle Bit. The lead dev basically wanted it to be Roblox Project Reality, but once it went live it turned into the sweatiest team death match furball with no teamplay and a strict meta. He was bummed. Now they're redoing the game, I think for the better, and the already 95% reduced player base is bummed and going to leave. The genre in general is kind of weird. If its TOO strict and "realistic" it makes the appeal very narrow, so most milsim games chill it out a bit, but then sweaty metas happen and the milsim dorks leave. Then the sweats get bummed when a patch turns it back into milsim.
The biggest problem is that both devs and players mostly think about gunplay when they talk about milsim. When the real problem is "UP TO THE COMBAT" part. The logistics of a war group, of your squad, of your self, from how you are gonna approach the situation, how you will go there (walk/run/drive/fly/swim), and so on.
People think realism is just battlefield with extra steps.
Fuck sweats bro, im not a milsim dork but i much rather play with them and have fun than those monsters
The devs literally said they are slowing down TTK overall and making unrealistic changes. They are leaning more towards the Call of Duty fast paced playstyle and becoming much more unrealistic.
Battlebit doesn't have players because it's a dogshit game.
@@GaboG3 The game was like call of duty on release though? If they want to turn it into a milsim type game they have to slow the movement, increase gun recoil, have some kind of ICO like squad or increase TTK. The reason people just sprint around and run and gun is because the game is WAY too fast paced and you can constantly spawn in fights so no reason to play with a squad
My biggest issue with squad is that no matter what server you are in and no matter what squad you join or even create yourself, at least 4 out of 9 players in your squad will be completely numb for the entire game, unwilling to talk or even just do call-outs.
Even when you are a Squad Leader, most of the time the only thing you will hear on your command channel will be crickets sitting in the fields of Yehorivka
Command chat is honestly better when it's dead. As someone who SL's most games, it's a fucking nightmare hearing people broadcast 90% useless comms the entire game. When it's dead you can just focus on your Squad. As long as people are marking stuff and you're checking the map often, command chat is pretty pointless.
But for your other complaint, yeah :( but if you have 4 people actively communicating in your squad and the other 4 following along it's fine. Great word choice though... The "numb" players need to stay on casual servers.
@@huntervegas4548 Thats odd, do you only play infantry? Its absolutely crucial to keep your armor and other squads informed or whats happening and not just with marks
@@usmcbf3090 Thats what direct comms are for. The numpad. Some things should be broadcasted over command chat, but most of it just shouldn't be said at all. The problem is that most people don't even consider the fact that people are in combat / near enemies and need to hear game audio for footsteps/gunshots clearly. So instead of tank spotted at X, headed west. Or HAB spotted and marked. You'll get "Hey guys I found their tank, I hear it somewhere west of my position, I think it's driving towards X location. It doesn't hear me yet I'll try to keep it updated" Then friendly tank squad responds in global command chat "OK we are on our way, try to keep it updated, we have to repair first and rearm" Then other guy replies "OK sounds good. Is there anyone with a HAT that can come track it first?" Blah blah blah....
I mainly play infantry, but regardless if you're armor or infantry, clear precise to the point comms is important It just doesn't negatively impact you like it does when you're infantry trying to communicate with your 9 man squad/hear game audio.
Armor squads should be checking map CONSTANTLY for new marks. So global comms for something like "Is the tank mark accurate?" is fine. But once you know who the SL is that marked it, take it to direct chat.
Many games, command chat is talking like half the damn game. It's actually insane. a simple armor mark with an arrow shhowing the direction theyre going is just fine in most cases, and there's no reason to advertise it to every SL over comms.
Wait, you used to actually be able to hit what you’re aiming at in Squad?
I first played squad, I now realize, almost immediately after the ICO update. It wasn’t a bad game, I had fun, but it didn’t captivate me because it felt too hard to get into, and this is coming from an avid Arma player. The guns made me feel like I was a toddler trying to control a magazine of overpressured ammo constantly, trying to figure out where the hell the fighting was confused me, and so many players kept dropping in and out that I kept ending up as the squad leader of a full squad of seasoned players who are screaming at me to give orders and place stuff down.
I want to love Squad. My brother loves squad, my friends love squad, but I just couldn’t.
Sounds like you're getting in shitty servers. The gunplay was massively changed over the last year or so, and it's an issue that has split the player base. I personally like it, it makes the combat feel more realistic and tactical as the more you run/shoot while in combat, the harder it becomes to control your breathing and weapon. Suppression has also been made more realistic. So basically when Squad came out it was a self titled "Milsim". It's now an average milsim and all the players who thought it was at first have their panties in a wad because there is a skill aspect to it now rather than sitting on a mountain and sniping.
Pre-ICO was definitely not without its flaws, but the ICO really f**ked up the gunplay, and as a game that is primarily a tactical shooter... yeah.
@@jakemensik2842 realistic? tactical? its less realistic than any cod or battle field in that ur player is literally a blind cripple with a broken shoulder trying to fire a gun.
@@JR-zi9vj I disagree partly the ICO had a concept in mind which is relying on tactics and lessen the point and click gun play that original squad had thou it did went overboard.
@@JR-zi9vj that and jesus christ why does my dude jolt his fucking gun up when he's about to aim?
Us people who like squad and the ICO, it is our duty to play often as SL, which is the most important role of squad.
It's better to have a great SL than great teammates.
So we shall lead by example and offer to others the best teamwork based squad experience possible.
Surely it'll need some courage, but we can't hide among the masse of soldiers hoping for better SLs.
Exactly
This is why I’ve started to SL more. Especially since I often play galactic conquest and holy shit they have no idea what they’re doing on those servers
All I play 🫡
@@helpumuch6887wouldn't expect much from a star wars server.
@@macewindu1532 poor mace windu, we just need more leaders to help educate
"You cant blame battlefield players for playing the game wrong"
Oh yes I can, yes I absolutely can
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Cambio de dolar. Only thing I learned speaking to an argentinian in a bus.
"Ministerio de la mujer y la diversidad - AFUERA" Viva Milei
@@col.kernel have fun with an even more wrecked economy
Hola compatriota😅
@@col.kernel era re malo
I'm Squad free for two years now,
but I'm glad that basicly nothing changed:
-The Devs still fuck up the game in each patch.
-Every squad player is always on the hunt for the next perfect match.
-And new players are still the worst.
Okay that last part you shouldn't put as a negative.
Ofc new players are gonna be the worst. Unless they play Arma what did you expect they are new they not gonna be good at the game or know everything.
(I'm new to the game as well and I adapted decently still trying to figure out how not to be blind as fuck. But I'm getting at least 4-5 downs per game which I think is good. )
@GalacticEmperorAstronomus As much as it is nice to be nice, it is understandable that being a player who wants to play tactically and seeing a dude run in and die just so that he can get some kills is annoying. Now some people might say "Oh what's wrong with run and gun? We want to have fun.". But the problem lies in the fact that squad is a game about the bigger picture. If you want to run and gun, it costs your teamates tickets. If you want to caml an empty but important road to protect the flanks, your team benefits. Lots of new players do just that, they aren't willing to play for the team at all. Most new players do just that. They prefer killing enemies 100% of the time over more boring gameplay for the sake of helping the team.
ICO is just dog-shit. I do not understand the mentality behind its support. Played Squad since it came out in early access and it has always been hard, but ICO destroyed it for me. It sold itself on the basis of "more teamwork". Only teamwork was still rare and the terrible gunplay caused by ICO compounded this and made the overall experience just awful - you couldn't make up for squad short-comings, you were deprived of the capacity to use your own initiative to hold up the unit. I was initially very hopeful ICO would make weapons less laser like. I wanted greater ramifications for sprinting and being suppressed. I tried to go back to ICO Squad, selected Squad MG and minutes later found myself sat covering the flank of my squads advance through a forest when an enemy squad was moving through a nearby sloping field towards a village. I set up, waited for the EF to come down the slope (so my rounds would impact behind them as opposed to vanishing off where I couldn't see if I was zeroed properly) and started burst firing. Didn't hit a single. f**king. Thing. They started firing back and also couldn't hit me (we were no more then 200m away). Everyone was so inaccurate they were able to withdraw under heavy fire (100m sprint across open ground) and called in a tank which then bombarded the forest for ten minutes. Just gobsmackingly shite.
Skill issue
“provides authentic combat experiences through teamwork, communication, and realistic combat.” My ass, if infantry held their weapons like with ICO, we’re either malnourished or all severely injured.
The gun handling isn't the only way you make something authentic. The shit handling actually forces you to use some of your brain to position because if you are in a decent spot you have a second to slow down and take your time with your shots you can hit stuff. Stop sprinting and start thinking. Also with the suppression mechanics you don't even need to hit them which is good enough in many circumstances to open up the opportunity to maneuver. The goal of the game isn't to get kills.
There have been many PVP shooter games that have tried to balance high skill players against low skill players
WarZ (infestation survivor stories) at one point had so much weapon bloom that you couldn't fight anyone outside of sneeze range
Battlefield 3 jacked the weapon bloom through the roof on every automatic unless you put a bipod on
Insurgency Sandstorm jacked the muzzle flip on all semi-auto and automatic weapons where firing a 5.56 carbine has more muzzle jump than a .50bmg M82 would IRL
Escape from Tarkov made automatic useless outside of sneeze range by cranking the recoil to 11 for a number of years (they've recently fixed it)
Call of Duty will actively change enemy players hitboxes if you're doing too well while also making YOUR hitbox bigger for everyone else
Red Orchestra has exaggerated weapon handling that artificially nerfs skilled shooters
And now Squad is following suit by making dog shit recoil tweaks
What I'll never understand in their pursuit of "making everyone happy" is why not just make a separate mode where the casuals who suck at PVP and just want to dick around a sandbox occasionally shooting at someone can play in peace in their own separate corner of the game? It'd be easy to make realistic playlists and casual playlists, make the realistic one actually have realistic weapons handling so the core audience of said tactical shooter isn't driven off because the devs caved to the casual timmy who doesn't think it's fair that someone should be able to kill them from 100m away.
It's beyond frustrating to be super into a "tactical shooter" just for them to randomly be like "Oh, hey, sorry, uhhh, we're going to make this completely unrealistic now because too many players cry about not being good at the game but for some reason still insist on playing it"
If the main focus of a "realistic" shooter is the gun play, and you fuck the gunplay to somehow be less realistic than Call of Duty, then you've failed at making a "realistic shooter", people like playing "realistic shooters" because they want to play with guns that handle/act in a realistic fashion, people don't want to play with guns that feel like hot garbage when the game is said to be focused on realism. Casuals will come out of the wood works to say stuff like "it's for balance" or "you just want star wars laser beams" or "I have no idea how guns work but I think my opinion on them from playing a couple video games is that it's almost impossible for someone to control a 5.56 in automatic". Ok, that last one was made up, but still, fucking beyond frustrating what casual gamers are doing to the mil-sim space.
Exactly that. EXACTLY that. Make up your damn mind on the vision of your game.
That said, its where producers and other bullshit come into play....
Once upon a time there was an organized "tournament" of sorts for BF2 called 21st Century Warfare. Players could sign up for different factions and compete across a larger map. Each week the leaders of each faction would essentially play a game of Risk and every weekend their teams would go head to head to claim that piece on the board by playing custom BF2 maps. I want this for Squad.
"There is only CoD, Battlefield, and Squad"
Mate there was Insurgency Sandstorm and WW3. They're not as big but they fit the niche of displaced BF players. There's also BF3's Project Reality in the work and that's what I'm waiting for.
I’m pretty sure it’s working I played it a few months ago. I only quit because you have to hold the run key the entire time and my pinky started to hurt.
It’s really cool! I bought that 15 year old game just to play the mod.
He's talking about team-based, large scale shooters with vehicle combat, which sandstorm is not. Sandstorm also released six years ago.
mate sandstorm can be fun. but its more cqb and not large scale 50v50
@@Slammed46 yeah true but CoD is ?
@@nestorgamer9746 no... That's what we're saying, no comparable game
As someone who is familiar with firearms, shooting using scope and a small bit of combat (via airsoft), I think I can say that even tho everything was not trash with that update, the ads time, time before the scope goes from full black to actually visible (scope alignement), ads stability especially when prone, are stupid and not realistic, anyone with basic weapon handling experience and skill knows that they exagerated it a lot, and everytime I play that game now, I feel like I'm playing a toddler barely able to hold the gun. I can't talk about suppression or recoil, since I'm not used to firing semi auto 223 and obviously to getting shot at with real guns + I think the recoil and suppression are not that bad (maybe recoil is a bit exagerated, 556 feels more like 762/308), but the scoping in general is trash now, as a sniper main, I feel scammed...
People saying that it is just a skill issue are denial/don't have experience with guns. When you fire a gun, you hold it tight to manage the recoil, in a game, this is should be simulated by moving the barrel out of it's original line of sight, not through moving the scope outof alignement because there is no way to controll that in a game, it should be assumed that the character is actually able to manage recoil so the scope don't goes full black at every fucking shot
Hey Slorgs, love the content.
I don’t know if you do much squad leading, but if you do, I encourage you to try locking your squad at 5 players and seeing what the experience is like.
I’ve been SLing for a long time and have become kinda tired of the game because of the player base, but all of the times I have had fun is when I’ve locked my squad at a ~5 player count and told my squad that we will be doing “special ops” work, building flanking habs, ambushing vehicles, hab hunting and various other mischief.
It really is easier for people to get along when there aren’t so many bodies to manage
This is advice that applies to pretty much everyone learning to SL. Keeping a 9 man squad tight is basically hardcore-mode. Game plays fast af, roll with the nickel squad and play tight. It's more consistent, which is what Squad needs in matches - consistency.
steam charts dont tell the whole story, western populations are way down, and chinese is way up, on top of that, if you go to battle metrics it will show about 2k-ish players arent actually in a server, meaning either people are all in a massive queue or theyre using bots to keep player count up for investor fraud. Either way, so many people have moved on and never will come back because of ICO, and thats what killed squad, its all noobs now that have no idea how to play and are teaching the next generation of noobs wrong. Squad was killed because they killed their actual player base
All ive gotta say is there are a million and a half arcade and semi-arcade competetive shooters on the market, it would be cool if we could just have ONE SINGLE realistic pvp shooter where I can crack open a beer and hop in a queue of an ongoing game
>realistic pvp shooter
Sadly squad aint it
I think they really need to focus on having digestible and comprehensive tutorials for new players, various roles, and game modes. This will improve player retention and the quality of the playerbase if executed properly.
yo this editing is FIRE 🔥
What pushed me away from the game was it ended up being nothing like the game Karmakut played.
Servers were awful and the roles were also awful. I hated joining a server as a new player, being forced into a lead position and having 10 people screaming orders like it was Afghanistan. That and it just felt too arcade like. We’d spawn, walk for 10 minuets, die and then have to respawn and walk again. A lot of the time I would just take my headset off and play mute because I couldn’t stand the toxicity. Shit was like a 2010 CoD lobby.
I’ve had good games sure but mostly bad experiences so I haven’t played in quite a while.
Wish this game wasnt as popular. It used to be way better when it was a smaller community with more serious players.
It is problem only if people lose connection because of that. Imagine if you start playing a game with just one server so you get to know people as there is only few of them. Then the game rises in popularity so they add more servers. If the first server stays the same in terms of the people, it will be no issue. Problem arises when people start to mixup with new people too much and suddenly you don’t know anybody.
yeah the niche gaming community is being gentrified
@@nick8874At the same point, I liked playing games like tannenberg. Guess what? It died in a year. Maybe less. I’d prefer to be able to play the game and not have to deal with bots than playing with some idiot teammates. And every tactical shooter gamer starts somewhere!
Its always like that man. When something is niche, few people that are INVESTED join in. When something becomes mainstream, all the stupid fucks come in and fuck it up for the people that want to play together/as a team/with some semblance of tactics.
That’s my biggest gripe and reason for dumping this game after playing it and loving it for four years. Playerbase has gone downhill and ruined the experience a that used to come out of this game. The experiences I had four years are very different than today. Game gives me nothing now.
Played arma my entire life, harcore for life ACE mods and all. Had my eye on squad in my library for the longest time(with 1hour played in 4years), and finally jumped the ship during the ICO test servers, been playing almost a whole year now and i dont see myself stopping anytime soon
Squad players not getting good be like:
Squad players realizing that shooting a SAW while standing and trying to make accurate shots in full auto mode is a bad idea.
I only fire from crouched or prone and controlled single shots at that. Still rubber arms. Still misses.
@@malcontender6319 Have you tried keeping your stamina at about half? Every time you run, you use stamina. If you deplete it completely, your aim suffers because your stamina is too low. Play more cautiously and avoid using all of your stamina. Keep it around the middle so you can still run when needed. If you encounter enemies, stop, crouch, and fire. You'll perform better because your opponent often has no stamina left. Also, moving slower reduces your chances of dying since you're not running around like it's CoD. Keeping your stamina at 50% gives you an emergency reserve to escape quickly if you're under fire.
"proning in a room, staring at a door" Yes, guarding the secret toilet entrance on Kashan. A youth well spent.
But you've also brought back memories of that deviation mechanic PR had for like 4 or 5 years. It had its problems, but it was the first time I'd seen machineguns be truly useful in an FPS. Up to that point, you could seriously argue they were optional and people picked them up by superficial preference, but after PR got the deployment mechanic down, they were as important as LAT kits and medics.
Loved squad more and more with every update. Then the weapons rework came and I haven't played ever since. And I know people will go "its the most realistic shooting in any game", but there is nothing realistic about a professional soldier not being able to shoot someone 20-30 meters away that is not even shooting at you and doesn't even see you. Adding PiP sights was incredible and I aplaud it. But everything else is just not working. Also for people saying "but it promotes teamwork and flanking" no it does not. It just slows the gun fights and randomizes who wins. If you are complaining that squad is populated by people running and shooting without tactics, then maybe you should join servers that actually have tactical players playing and not join noob friendly because que to experienced servers is higher. In servers with experienced players you had flanks and shit going on, everyone having mic, following orders and such and it was great. Recoil and gun mechanics was something I always appreciated with squad, for me it was even better than Insurgency Sandstorm. It had decent recoil that with practice you can control, you still had suppression, machine guns were actually machine guns. Now its just shooting and hoping for the best most of the time. People that like ISO are people who can aim their mouse and need smeared screen and randomized bullet spread in order to even out the field for them. There, I said it. Let the hate comments begin...
I agree, I love squads tactical game play, when I'm in a squad ill follow orders exactly. I havnt played in ages since ICO, I enjoy the team play but I want to be able to kill if I'm aiming at them.
I like the recent reworks to gunplay. It's getting me back in to the game after a long break. The ico was overkill but now that I can actually steady my aim it's much more enjoyable. I also just built my third computer in hopes of seeing decent fps in the game ever again and the 165 fps breathes some life in to the experience.
Purchased yesterday, only have a couple of hours clocked, loving every second so far. If this is the game troubled, I missed out big time. Better late than never.
The Devs in squad have never shot a gun and it really shows. Run 20 feet and you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn according to squad devs.
Most of the people who said "shot a gun" barely do it after running 5 kilometers with 40Kg of equipment and sleep deprived most of the time affraid of their lives
otherwise why you explainthe DOZENS of weapons programs specifically made to increase hit rates on army?
the point of the mechanic is not to accurately portray your literal ability to handle your weapon while tired/suppressed, it's to create a (very strong) incentive for players to employ vaguely realistic tactics. The more you deviate from ico, the less you punish players for taking excess and suicidal risks. Before ico, fire and maneuver was kind of a dumb way to play the game, because you could not effectively suppress the enemy.
@@Warfaremachine0095 Bolox, In the Irish defense forces we would run before shooting at the range or doing falling plates. A trained soldier is accurate even when exerted, squad is a milsim not random guys who shot a gun once simulator. If a soldier can't hit the broadside of a barn after jogging a few meters he is a liability.
As other people said above me
The gameplay kinda turns into bf but with extra steps and also can yalls stfu about how you shot your 9mm after a nice cup of coffee and your good and healthy at the shooting range you mf act like you went to war cuz you sure didn't 😂
All the mechanics in ICO make sense cuz you are not playing as a main character or something your just a regular soldier
Your telling me you won't get scared to shit after being shot at and you won't get shaky hands from all the stress and adrenaline yeeaaaa stfu and go back to playing arcade shooters cuz squad is definitely not gonna be your another point and click game
@@chungusloverSuppression is fine but dude the way they went about implementing the update was a huge slap in the face to the community that made this game possible. Like they barely tested something that changed the entire gameplay experience then said deal with it. Instead of adding little things over time to test this out. Having these ideas is not the problem it’s how they handled the whole thing. Not to mention they still to this day will not fix the performance. They focus so much on things that didn’t need to happen.
ICO is meant to level out the skill gap so that new players and experienced players are on a more leveled playing field. There is little skill required for defeating enemy team when everyone is intoxicated and has noodle arms. If you want an actual realistic and immersive experience go play tarkov. This game will completely break your immersion if you have ever fired a gun more than 100 times irl
Im hurting that you don't mention Insurgency: Sandstorm as a modern accessible tactical shooter. Game is super fun and it fills the void that battlefield, squad and Hell let Loose have left in me.
It’s primarily infantry focused, small-scale infantry at that. Huge difference with that.
Plus, not that it matters to some, but the fake factions in Insurgency are pretty dumb as well. I love how Squad features real countries and authentic loadouts.
I have probably 500h in sandstorm and 500 more in the first insurgency, so I can safely pontificate that if you think Insurgency is in the same space as squad then you are crazy. No logistics, no vehicles (apart from call ins and a couple 50cal trucks no one uses), laser beam weapons even compared to squad before ICO, tiny scale maps that funnel players into direct combat (not quite the 3 lanes of CoD, but nowhere near as open as squad, more like a battlefield rush map). The game is fun though, so if that's the void you were looking to fill that makes sense but if the void is specifically a tactical shooter then no.
I will never forget, what they did to my favourite game. What they tried to achieve, they haven't achieved with those changes.
Also calling it game without a cooperation pre-ico is straight out lie, idk if we played same game lol
Here's the thing though, man... I'll be 25 in a month, been playing on PC since I was 15. Why did I get a PC? Project Reality, Civilization V, and Arma 3.
Squad's ICO has utterly failed in ALL categories as far as I am concerned, and if I ever play the game it's with the Global Mobilizaiton mod or whatever it's called.
"It's bringing back the PR feel!" some say. I say "Where?". The sway is egregious, the gunplay atrocious, and everything just feels like an RNG simulator. Now the devs are adding a new PMC faction with new weapons like the MP5 and I just have to laugh. Why bother? Weapons are pathetic in this game. PR actually felt good to play, and STILL does to this day. Squad feels like a constant fight with the game itself rather than the enemy.
"It encourages teamwork!" Lol. Just lol.
"Go back to Call of Duty!" Lolno. I have no interest in pathetic skin shooters, but I do expect a shooter to have gunplay that feels good. Rising Storm 2, Battlefield BC2/3/4, old Squad, even FREAKING TARKOV OF ALL GAMES have or had better gunplay than this absolute disaster that is the ICO.
Funny enough, Tarkov can be a Hella crazy team experience. Rising Storm 2 can become a mind-blowing struggle or absolute curbstomp if there is teamwork. Even Battlefield titles of old had insane matches I remember fondly, particularly Battlefield 3 when one could VOIP across the entire team of 32 people (which was nuts when everyone got excited).
These games, they encourage teamplay through various OTHER ways besides turning everyone's weapons into some sort of weird player influenced-RNG-fest that is downright unpleasant to try to play.
Tl;DR: Squad is shit now. I will die on that hill. It is pathetic, the fact it has microtransactions even moreso, and the game could have been so much better with only two features from the ICO being kept/added, those being the movement-based accuracy and the suppression effects. The sway and other BS was unnecessary and murdered the gameplay.
Sway is something all humans experience, but Squad took it too far. You can't jog 20 meters without your character having a panick attack and not being able to aim properly, and the scope system is terrible aswell. In CQB you are forced to either aim a 4x scope and have your entire vision blurred and not able to aim due to sway, or hip fire where the gun isnt even shouldered and the character is treating the gun like its a 50 BMG, recoil is insanely unrealistic and the characters dont know how to point fire. We're all Ugandan child soldiers according to OFFWORLD.
The main issues with the game:
1) the server browser is ass, and the lack of a group matching system is ridiculous
2) the players, people don’t play the game like a team, or really for the proper objective, you end up with people all over the place, small groups running around out in the middle of nowhere, because they don’t care if they die
Anyone defending the ICO should have gone and played a different game. ICO ruined the game and it got review bombed for a reason. Not only is it not realistic but it isn’t fun. Please someone try and defend it. Why do you like it over the original game?
“Muh team play, muh punishing run n gun” or somehting along the lines of that, even though ICO didn’t improve either of those, people still run and gun and “encouraging team play” never works
That recoil in the opening clip looks like recoil for the sake of recoil...damn.
For me all my friends besides one absolutely hate the ICO update and we all mostly stopped playing since it launched.
Recently I hopped back in and on some custom servers they have introduced changes to make it more manageable but I still really don't like it. Just not the same....
On point as usual.
For what it's worth your production quality is absolutely through the roof, honestly the tightest gaming content I've ever watched. I spent 6 hours editing a 2 minute video, so I know what I'm talking about.
Personally, I started playing Squad during 2020 and fell in love with what it had to offer at the time, which was the somewhat tactical side and full head on battlefield pvp style, which is why I'm almost at 3,000 hours as of writing this. Though, when the ICO dropped it brutally kicked me and other peoples play styles in our asses and made me realize that from this point on, it's going to be more of a challenge to rack up those high kill games (though you can still achieve by being a, mortarmen or using, grad, armor, ub32, arty, etc.) and to have more fun in a sense. And up until the ICO dropped, I've never really had a negative thing to say about Squad which is probably because I grew up on First-Person Shooters like Call of Duty and Battlefield and that's what made it a lot better for me to get into and never really ran into many people who wanted Squad to feel more realistic and have a slower, more tactical experience. All the hours I spent learning the mechanics of the game. For each specific gun,, was now basically lost due to them pretty much making the recoil and sway a lot more impactful and detrimental if you choose to aim, coming off a full dash across a field, and nowadays, I barely make it past 30-50 kills as an infantryman which isn't a bad thing and nor am I trying to sound like I'm complaining, but it is much more difficult to recreate some of the moments that made me fall in love with this game, and I'm sure there are other people like me that might feel the same way and don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the game to this day (even with all the emote, weapon skin crap and the somewhat toxic player base), I just have a lot more headaches to deal with when it comes to sitting down and booting this game up and trying to teach other people how to adapt and overcome the brutal challenges that this game now holds.
Mate, the fact that you are focusing so much on how many kills you have in a game is exactly what this video is about and why Squad has gone to shit. This is NOT Battlefield where the goal is to click as many heads as possible. This is supposed to be a tactical realistic military shooter. The community would be so much better if there was more focus on coordination rather than KDR. I get that many love the casual gameplay from Battlefield and COD, but Squad is not about that and should have never been about that.
@@sbef 100% agree with everything you say. I was more of speaking in past tense which I should've made more clear but also when I was talking about kdr, I left out probably the most important part which is I always play the objective weather I'm defending a point or have my squad attacking, etc. I am not one of those lone wolf type people I just enjoyed the pre ICO gunplay and it really has no effect on me than lower kill games and lower fps due to PIP scopes which doesn't bother me at all. The most enjoyable part of Squad to me is when everything works (Communication, strong tactics, good squad, etc) and most of the time if I'm not playing with my group it usually all falls apart if I try leading a squad full of people who still don't understand how to adapt Post ICO but I'll keep trying until more people eventually either burn out or shine.
the infantry overhaul sucks. in fact it was so bad that the leader of the official discord server publicly bribed others to give good reviews in order to receive leaks and other rewards. which goes against steams rules. if youhave a game where you have to bribe people to give positive reviews youve got a bad game.
Just couldn't get behind the ICO changes, games still need to be fun no matter how "realistic" or "milsim" you want them to be.
The main thing I took away from this was that I was mistaken that PR ended due to a cease and desist from EA lol.
PR is still being updated to this day
They actually allowed them to go standalone (no source code or commercial rights) since thousands of people bought the game just to play PR, it was like a reverse DLC. The engine was not half bad and BF 2142 actually had major improvements yet. Too bad, but they learned to work around it.
@@Arnechk That's really cool...thanks for the info
PR never ended, not sure where people got this misconception from.
The amount of competent players started to reduce with A10 Aka "ICO lite" which OWI tried to fill in the gaps with constant free weekends and sales, until they back peddled with A12 to try bring some vets back. Then constant back and forth and no real direction of where they were going kept veterans slowly leaving and then kept bringing in new players with sales, which also added more frustration to the veterans already dealing with the constant bipolar game shifts.
Then full release happened with the free weekend an sales with it and massively exploded the player count, making what little vets were left, being outnumbered 10 to 1 by the noob horde, causing more vets to stop playing. Then the ICO happened, again with sales, and more noobs and more vets leaving.
Now the playerbase is made up of few veterans on copium hoping more tweaks come, a few 40 year old PR old heads trying to relive their larpers wetdream from their youth and a then a huge horde of noobs that just frustrate everyone. It's nothing to do with Battle Field and it's players, it the decision making of OWI and the constant bipolar changes causing their veterans to leave the game.
I have zero interest or care for people who don't like the ICO update and want old Squad back. This was exactly what Squad needed. This is not CoD or Battlefield or Fortnite or whatever lame-ass shooter you play. This is a game developed by war veterans in order to give a more down-to-Earth feeling of a military shooter and simulator. This game is NOT meant to reward the quickest flick of the trigger or the fastest turn on a corner, it is supposed to encourage teamwork and communication. If that's not what you are looking for in a shooter, then go play another one.
Yeah played since alpha testing, ICO is the BEST.
ICO made me play Squad everyday again
@@MicrogramHeathen No, it's not. I've been playing since alpha and PR before that. It's not realism, it's silliness.
Game is still shit. They can't optimise it and playing the game feels like a chore since the community has become full of casuals who dont understand how to play the game
Squad is actually realistic battlefield now, squad lost the rts aspect and its realistic, so its realistic battlefield
they should bring back 2 versions of the ICO where its hardcore and one where it is normal which would be the current state right now
There are games that are absolutely amazing, every team is trying to play their best and it gives me this realistic feeling that I'm really part of a military family and I'm trying to cover my team, everyone is trying and then there's a game where nobody try the best, nobody knows how to lead a squad and it's a terrible experience. I've experienced like 10/300 games that were really worth it and I'll probably never forget the experience of those 10 games that I really remember to this day, where people listen to others and create the absolute best scenarios in Squad. But i know for sure, that these 10 games (approx 10hours) created something in me, that wants to play the game continuesly.
ive played squad since before vehicles, (yes, we had to run everywhere) The ICO is a great update, but to increase teamwork, why not give bonuses for staying within your squad mates? like reduced suppression while with your squad? increased suppression for shooting towards same target etc, increased stamina etc, I feel like that would actually directly reward teamwork.
Teamwork is already HEAVILY rewarded. Problem is pubbers don't come in with Squad mentality but yes with BF mentality. Further rewarding teamwork (in an anrcadey way that you propose which makes it not match the game's tone) would just further imbalance the random pubber squad vs stacked clan dynamic.
War of Rights has some of the mechanics Gytis15 listed while providing a realistic feel to the game and not sabotaging gameplay
i love squad
i have some amazing teams
and then sometimes theres the squad leader who says nothing until 15 minutes in and asks whats our favorite movies, someone answers star wars
and squad leader says "thats not valid answer you should have said something less popular" and no one talks in squad chat until the squad leader leaves and everyone starts celebrating... this feels to be more common that a good squad leader unfortunately
A year ago this is exactly what you wanted and supported for from project reality adamantly.
Now to see you speak against it, gives me a chuckle.
From an arma player, i dont see the issue in the ICO, squad currently is more similar to the arma series than battlefield, yet people haven't adjusted expectations
The problem is that squad already had the most weapon sway of any mainstream shooter before ICO was even released. Many of the players are former military so they are well aware that the games weapon accuracy went from a fair representation of an average shooter to afghani shitter (hold rifle over head while squating and go full auto) levels even if you had your stamina at max, bipod deployed, and were zeroed. It's simply immersion breaking and unrealistic. This is why most of the ICO hate comes from project reality/squad alpha players while people who like it are mostly those that came from battlefield. I am not sure why Slorgs disagrees, this is what the Devs themselves said in a softball interview with moidog. To be fair the devs have toned it down a LOT but I still often see players with low stamina not merely be incapable of hitting moving targets at 20 meters but legitimately recreating the rooftop shootout in Naked Gun 2 1/2 (seriously youtube it if you don't know). On the plus side I honestly haven't heard anyone complain about the suppression mechanics in game. Overall it is the best part about ICO along with the improvements to optics.
Simply put the devs wanted to slow down gameplay and discourage solo combat engineers from destroying habs and infantry from running through open fields into machinegun nests. They did not succeed. This game is a unique experience because it encourages teamwork and lets people build defenses. The devs should be encouraging the strong points of the game, not punishing the players because some people aren't playing "The right way".
Ding ding ding, Its crazy that IRL i can shoot at anything and probably hit it if i can see it clearly but in game I feel like I'm shooting a musket and hoping my rounds hit.
I see you have never tried Arma 3 with hard settings.
I only played squad for 10h: I got persuaded to buy it after seeing footage of the ICO, downloaded it in 3 days because not everyone gets to live in the inner city of a first world country, spend most of my time trying to get into the game only to get booted out because of bugs or kicked (because my name was too short), then as you mentioned couldn't get into a good squad most of the time hence left having to play solo, spent most of my time being in a vehicle, building, running or defending an objective, and then either get shot by someone I never saw or shoot at someone who never saw me (and I've sunk 700h into tarkov so I ain't new to this).
Then, whilst attempting to get into a game for about 10m, I closed squad, turned on insurgency and within 90 seconds of pressing 'play' on steam I was IN A GAME.
Proceeded to uninstall later due to limited storage.
...
I never even got to try out that ICO update because I quit before it came out.
in before people start to write essays about how ICO sucks
"tumultched" is my new favorite adjective verb
The Infantry overhaul completely fucked the gameplay imo. I re-DL'd just to play the update and found I couldn't hit shit past like 10 yards with quick shots. I'm not opposed to slowing gunfights, making movements more careful, increasing reliance on squad members, etc., but when I can't hit shit at 5-10 yards while reacting to contact, it gets a little shitty.
I’ve been playing GEE far more than vanilla just because OWI dropped the ball with the ICO. Idk if you remember me, but I played the ICO with you during the playtests way back. I had my gripes but I overall enjoyed it. I enjoyed it because I had thought we’d have another 10 to 20 playtests to sort out the mechanics. But no, they dropped it after 7 or 8 tests. It needed tweaking badly. Coupled with the fact that most squads just don’t talk, the ICO has unfortunately left me with a sour taste for squad. It didn’t fix anything it set out to accomplish in any meaningful margin, the communication is just as awful, the gunfights instead of being short and fast firefights, are two guys randomly spraying in each others direction hoping to hit the target. Suppression is nice and so is the PiP scopes, but everything besides that is just un enjoyable.
I really like ICO. It turned the "sniper" fest into something more team based. It is far from perfect, I agree, but thanks to this update it even managed to re-convince my friends to download the game again. They claimed they had fun because "They can finally move and not get shot the moment they leave cover". Gun mechanics could still probably use some tweaking but as of my latest Squad session, I had nothing to complain about besides people. I cannot express how much I agree with the statement that players are mostly responsible for the quality of a match you will have. It is a constant issue of people wanting to be on the offence, driving straight to the objective, die to a vehicle, do not build HABs to spawn on and then complain the game is shit. Listen here, this is not Battlefield or Call of Duty. Logistics are actually important here. Game by game I ran into the same issue, no FOBs. Quite literally a few weeks ago, the only reason why we managed to hold the flag is because I followed some advice on how to build such FOBs; radio far away from the HAB. And man did it work, we managed to turn the game around. So to sum up, unless people change their mindset about the game, and try not to rush face first brains later into the enemy, then they will always complain that Squad sucks. I love this game, it deserves love and work. ICO improved the experience for me overall and nothing anyone says will change my mind.
Sniper fest? You dont see combat over 200 meters anymore unless its vehicle combat lol. I think the problem is Squad has a casual player base trying to play a tac shooter. So they consider getting shot at 400 meters by an ACOG user "sniping" because thats what it is in games like BF and COD. Which are sadly the Squad player bases standard of comparison. As long as its slightly less casual than BF theyre appeased. Most are unwilling to even try other tac shooters tout of fear of having that bubble burst. They dont consider thats what modern combat is like and entirely what most infantry units are designed for. Even logistics isnt very imporant. Compared to games like Reforger where you cant even take caps without logistics trains its just a joke. Feels thrown in just to exist but its barely crucial beyond setting up some HABs at the beginning of the match. Then you add in the fact that every played game mode is just a simple straight line push like BF and it becomes clear why people play it like BF. Because its designed as a BF clone and not an actual tac shooter. You cannot change how people play without changing the basic mechanics. People respond to the mechanics, not the other way around. If you rely on casual mechanics youre going to get casual play. If you make mechanics realistic youll get realistic playstyles. Squads just not holding up compared to Reforger. Once you play Reforger youll never go back. Actual dynamic game modes that encompass the whole map and actually feel like you're on a battlefield, players that dont feel like bots, you can actually hear enemy coms by stealing radios, open local chat is incredibly immersive, and having to navigate manually, it all just adds up to such a beautiful and immersive experience. Where as Squad by comparison feels like a spawn charge die simulator.
Squad could redeem itself in my eyes by restoring INS to its PR era glory. Also just adding some new dynamic game modes like Reforger has. More punishing logistics would also be great. It costs nothing to spawn which is pretty dumb. In Reforger you need supply to spawn, you cant just indefinitely spawn/ Squad also fucked up by switching from PRs all combat included. PR had nam, ww2, modern combat, cold war combat, it was all there. Reforger does that well but Squads decided to branch off into other titles. It really just doesnt hold up by comparison. Once you play conflict Squad feels like a soulless game devoid of creative game design. Definitely feels like more of a corporate product designed to generate revenue vs a game trying to make money by doing something truly great and original.
@@Tinylittledansonman this isn’t a BF clone…..do u build any spawn points in battlefield or do u just spawn on your own squad mates…..big difference in game flow when u can just spawn on a squad mate not needing to build any kind of hab
@@africanricc3458 That's a really minor difference. BF with a couple extra steps is the best way to describe Squad. It has some of the most babyish handholding mechanics on the market. Cant even killed downed enemies lol so technically Fortnite is less forgiving and more realistic. Its hard to give Squad any credit now that Reforger is on the market and does the concept soooo much better and so much more realistically. Creating actual realistic gameplay lol. But like I said in another comment the Squad audiences only measure of comparison theyll actually accept is BF, which is a low standard. The denial has to stop at some point. Its been ridiculous. 10 years of blaming everything but the soft mechanics that dont demand realistic gameplay.
in "experience pref" servers, i have had the opposite experience. farming noobs who dont play together gets borig
@@Tinylittledansonman nothing more than your OPINION man on who does what better. Very subjective when it comes to those smaller details. In MY opinion ARMA moves really STIFF, and always has….stiffer jittery movements…. when squad is running well, it runs really well and SMOOTH….and these mechanics have been done since ARMA 1 and people STILL play SQUAD heavily and nothing will change even if ARMA does it too…even the gunplay is just much better in SQUAD, and much smoother….just a better experience in MY OPINION but I like ARMA too……super un optimized but whatever right
This is so painfully accurate I love it and hate this all at the same time you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned their Ico being meant to increase cooperation between squads ending up doing the complete opposite free Ico definitely have more cooperation between squads and Squad leaders however some of the other improvements have been breathtaking I truly hope that they can bounce back and find that true Squad mystery that made Squad so amazing once before
My favorite thing about squad back in the day was how kind of.... boring it was? You would walk like 10 kilometers with your squad, talking and joking around, and then when you finally saw an enemy, it was basically like the most heart pounding exciting thing. Now its just so action packed and convoluted. It definitely feels like its becoming what it meant to counter- which is battlefield.
I disagree, i think even back then squad was very boring walking simulator ish. I think reducing the map size to basically like hell let loose fixes a lot of that.
Personally, I see both sides. I feel some changes implemented in the ICO are highly welcome and others I don’t like so much. But what bothers me is, in my opinion, generally what I have seen is ICO opposers seem to respectfully state their gripes and how they came to the opinion that they hold, whereas it seems a rather large amount (not all) of the ICO advocates default to ad hominem attacks against the opposers as opposed to bringing respectful and constructive dialogue to the table. For a community that is so polarized right now I feel that’s the exact opposite of beneficial, but hey that’s just my opinion. ICO opponent: “having fired these weapons myself I understand they are trying to encourage realistic gameplay by exaggerating weapon recoil and spread, but I find it to be to an excessive amount that for me, detracts from the gameplay and is less enjoyable than pre ICO” ICO Enjoyer “cope, seethe and mald stupid idiot, go back to running and gunning in COD because we don’t want you here anyways”. Some could argue that I’ve just perpetuated a straw man argument, but I’ve honest to god seen this exact interaction occur numerous times across different platforms. I know not every opposer is going to be so “gentlemanly” about it and not every advocate is gonna be so rude but it seems like that’s the majority. But hey, just my two cents.
its like every single ICO defender, its like copy and paste bots literally, wouldnt put it past tencent
Now its been a few months the ICO has really saved this game completely. Firefights are so much better now, teamwork has increased and matches feel like a real battle a lot more.
Here's what I don't get, and it isn't just Squad that does this, but how come "tactical shooter" now means your solider who went through training to shoot a gun and to be accurate while doing it somehow cannot control simple recoil? It feels like in order to make people play more as a team they decided to drop the accuracy so it becomes death by volume of bullets instead of actual tactics. Lets not even get too into the idea of how a BiPod doesn't actually stabilize your rifle. I do love the game and try and play as intended but when you play for an hour and can't hit anything even though you have the tactical advantage and the only thing that is truly stopping you is is a piece of code that makes your trained solider have the same skill level as a storm trooper from Star Wars it gets frustrating. In it's current state it is not a tactical shooter its a live fire exercise simulator.
I do just want to clarify, I am coming from shooting a lot, these guns do not behave like they would in the hands of a trained individual. I have not shot every gun that is featured in this game but the sway that is added and the lack of a predictable recoil pattern causes the game to not be realistic. Games like Ground Branch, and Ready or Not do the same thing where the increase the difficulty of staying on target. I love the suppression affect this is a great feature that promotes that team work (obviously only as good as the team you are with). I do not support perfectly flat "Battlefield" sight pictures but I think we are still locked in the over correction realm. Currently you are playing with soldiers who would have never made it out of basic training.
@@Mr0Videodude Then using the same logic, pro CS players are the best marksmen in the world.
what i don't understand is why they couldn't just allow for community servers to choose between the two types of infantry combat versions they had. I'm definitely one of the players that enjoy the older combat model as with the overhaul many squad style strategies me and my buds had were ruined when we lost the element of surprise against of group of enemies as we tried to take them out whilst missing 60% of our shots. The overhaul imo doesn't seem to fix any of the bad communication and collaboration problems the game had if anything i feel as though it hinders them as in game modes like invasion advancing felt almost impossible as no one would want to move to be at a disadvantage during combat. This issue is the main reason i decide to play global escalation servers as they make the gunplay manageable even though its no where near comparable to prior ico times.
But…? How DARE YOU ! SKILL ISSUE ! SKILL ISSUE ! UNINSTALL THE GAME ! REEEEEEEEEEE
i think the next step is simple, we dont need to pray that dice and ea pull it together for squad to be good, we just need new player onboarding that actually exists and doesn't hinge on experienced players passing down knowledge. in public servers, any role that isn't the rifleman and medic should be locked until a tutorial is completed. building on that, you shouldn't be allowed into the crewmen seats of heavy vehicles until you complete tutorials dedicated to those, and so on.
I stopped playing long ago because server owners are awful people, the combat loop is awful and you get perma banned and get blacklisted from every server simply because the server owners want to play with your friends and kick and ban you to free up server space
The big problem , is not the ico by itself (for sure i also hate this noodle arms ) , its the vets , who have left the game because the hate this update . Just tweak ico and the gameplay will be a way better when both sides , the ico lovers and the haters can play the game .
I will say that I do want Squad to be closer to project reality but I also think that it is kind of ridiculous that guns like the M249 are completely uncontrollable. As someone who shot the 249 in real life, it isn't nearly as bad as the game can make it out to be not to mention the fact that lethality should be a part of the game. I don't think making it harder to kill people was the solution to making the game more realistic. I think they rather need to take a bigger page from Arma if that's what they want to do (but as you said in the video, the game is very confused about what direction its trying to go in lol).
Yooo shooting a 5kg machine gun while walking has recoil!!??🤯
the beauty of the m249 is that it is 5kg and fires 5.56. It has virtually no recoil because of the weight of the gun. Walking will add some, but it is still made to be a lower recoil weapon.
The thing about the ICO update is that it's not about the gunplay, the suppression is great, you get shot at you put your head down and try to work with your team it incentivizes teamwork it's great. People that don't like it just don't communicate with others well and are the same people that are silent in game and get mad when they get gunned down when they go off by themselves.
Squad, the FPS game, is no longer about the FPS gameplay. Surely you can understand why people got mad, at least?
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think arma reforger is better than squad now. Especially with the right mods. It’s more approachable than arma 3 was and looks so much better.
Brilliant analysis on this, from figuring why the game has taken this path, from not blaming anyone nor the game.
Talking about similar games. What are your thoughts about Arma Reforger in the middle of all this?
Squad is my favorite game because of the ico
I wonder if Squad needs to do something like what War Thunder has, and have an arcade and realistic gamemode. Arcade would appeal to the players who prefer the Battlefield style of gameplay, while the realistic would give the players who want the OG Project Reality experience.
OWI held multiple play tests for the community on the test version of the game to get feedback for the ico. And the feedback OWI got from these play tests where overwhelmingly positive.
The people who don't like the changes are most likely Battlefield players, and are a small vocal minority. So for them I hope the next Battlefield game is good.
You are just wrong. The reason they didn't get much negative feedback from the ICO was that most people who saw videos of the first playtest didn't bother downloading any of the ICO playtests because the weapon handling looked like aids. Then they released it and all those people who weren't interested in noodle arm gameplay lost their shit. Hence the negative review bombing.
@@DaveCleasc You didn’t even have to download the play test to give your opinion on the ico. And if it was so unpopular they wouldn’t have made the changes, but they listens to the majority of the community and the most dedicated fans. The fact is that the changes are good for the community, they increase teamwork and make some roles like the machine gun actually useful for the squad. I do feel bad for you for disliking the ico but you are in the minority.
After they rolled back most of the handling issues I started playing again. And the game has barely changed since ICO, as is stated in this video. Besides the suppression, the only difference is you find more people laying prone under a bush, whereas before ico they would have been standing.
@@DaveCleasc why would they change the ico? They just changed it to the ico. So your mad that people are not just shift W attacking or defending witch is one of the reasons for the implication of the ico.
What? I didn't say anything like that. The ICO has been severely nerfed. The terrible noodle arms handling is almost gone. Thinking this is a positive thing doesn't mean I'm a cod run and gun player.
Oh good old PR days, join Tactical Gamer server and have some fun.
What, you expect people to play like it's 1990 text based mutli user dungeons all over again? Where nothing is explained and all left to explore by yourself? Where one has to pay attention to a leader and follow orders? Where actual team play wins matches?! Are you insane?! Most gamers have an attention span of a fruit fly. You have to gate the experience like Arma 3 does, where only the most patient and inquisitive players survive the initial learning curve. Only then you get the gameplay you seek. Sad but true
The saddest thing in the world is that all this Squad players calling themselves veterans have never experienced all this emotions that Project Reality gives...
And have no idea what this game should have been...
All of them was playing wrong game for so many years because Squad devs decided that they are smarter and can go their own way.
Honestly, the longer time goes on, the graphical differences between squad and PR2 seem to flatten out in my eyes.
The "people love to flame but also love to play but also can't wait to never play again." Quote pretty much nailed it
The main reason games nowadays don't have direction is that they try to pander to everyone, rather than focusing on a core playerbase. There's a reason why ARMA 3 is still the king of military shooters, cuz there is freedom to tailor the experience to a core group
I have absolutely ZERO faith in DICE ever releasing a good Battlefield game ever again. Battlefield V was bad and somehow Battlefield 2042 was even worse.
As long as OWI maintains course I think Squad will only get better.