@@johncameron6877 I do in my jodah deck. It has all Titans, praetors, avacyn (indestructible), obliterate, decree of annihilation, blightsteel, skithryx, pretty much all the game winning cards. It was designs to be hated
Many players just want to play their cards and not have to interact with their opponents. They hate STAX cards, but then are pissed when nothing stopped another player from winning out of nowhere. The same cards that stop STAX cards also stop combo decks. Players just don’t want to play interaction.
For me, Vorinclex all the way. It's paralyzing sitting there and staring at your lands that can't untap while the Vorinclex owner enjoys double mana. Great video!
My opponent discarded a Vorinclex to hand size when playing against my Lazav deck, so I changed Lazav into a Praetor, then played Animate Dead on the original. Having one is absolutely gross, but 2 is priceless.
I scrolled down to the comments to say exactly this "I get to play twice as much Magic per turn while you all only get to play half as much Magic" One turn cycle is usually all it takes for the Vorinclex player to win, if the table can't find a way to get it off the table
@skettit Discrimminit when you play the flash deck but forget to blow your load in the last end step and now you need to pretend you planned to cast nothing.
Raydel Martinez he did make the distinction that taking extra turns without winning the game is more of a problem. If I’m taking extra turns, it is usually a infinite turn combo that results in me winning the game. Otherwise you are just taking one turn that takes twice as long, which is annoying.
Static Orb also shuts off when tapped, the Masterpiece version has the updated text. Also Infect is also hated for Commander as nothing says unfair like forcing a 10 life handicap on all your opponents.
The cards I hate the most are ones that either require a master's degree in English and Calculus to figure out. Humility, while seemingly simple, has too many intricacies that I cant run it in any decks. Do I mind if others use it? No, so long as they explain exactly what it does lol.
@@CommanderVoid I hope you do as I would like to support you but I purchase my cards from my LGS when possible so the links aren't a good way for me to do that.
Lately I've noticed that Fires of invention from Throne of Eldraine seems to be a really good enchantment to get around vorinclex as you can cast spells equal to or less then the amount of lands you have without spending their mana cost and for the mindlsaver you can also use Glissa the Traitor
I'd like to add a card to this list, because in the tournaments I go to, this card is despised. Not broken, but too strong for EDH if it gets out early: Serra Ascendant.
I'd say it was a design mistake to make specific life totals relevant, and I'm glad they've been fixing mechanics like that to be higher than your starting life total rather than a specific life total. I've never had issues with the card though.
@@PotatoGuidanceMissle though unlikely, picture this scenario. your opponent, first turn, plains, Serra Ascendant. Then say hypothetically you don't stop it until it's attacked 4 times. You're already down 24 life and your opponent up 24. Then they have been preparing more in the meantime
Mindslaver + Emry, Lurker of the Loch + Wilderness Reclamation = control all future turns if you get to 6 mana. Simply play it using Emry's tap ability in your main phase and activate it during your end step after your lands untap. Then, control the opponent's turn, tap them out before the end of their turn, and do the same thing during your next turn. Effectively, you control all of their future turns while they have no mana on your turn with which to react.
Honestly it just kind of sounds like a lot of these people don't like control decks. I don't understand why people have such a big issue with counter spells and things like that, but they don't care about black cards that kill your creature it's the same concept blue just has to decide whether they want to kill your creature when you cast it they don't have the option of waiting till later.
I have a large 25+ playgroup that plays both competitive and casual EDH and I’m fine with all of these cards. I throw a lot more hatred towards boring win cons like torment of hailfire or craterhoof behemoth honestly.
you forgot the plainswalker that can also just "take control of your turn". And honestly, i don't mind the cyclonic rift that much, my problem so far is when someone has an oppressive board state and everyone targets me regardless of my board state often being a 3 against me where with they're limited resources combined they aim to take me out of the game. I take a shower, i use deodorant, i wear clean clothes. Nowaday's , if i don't run Glacial Chasm in all my decks (with a way to remove or flicker it) i get taken out of the game often by round 5. Just had to clarify, and i know this is unbelievable, when i play any oppressive card that's only slightly oppressive (like that cat creature where if someone was to draw 2 cards instead the opponent and i both draw one card) it gets blown up fast or otherwise removed. Meanwhile, someone (not me) plays something like Winterorb, grand arbiter, attaching blightstaff to avatar of woe, no one has a problem with it. In fact, when someone decides to play what's his name of trest, elsha, son of yawgmoth, everyone targets me regardless of what i play. And thank you for reading my wining, i literally built a deck using Anje where the commander deck's focus was for me to "draw cards" with no actual win condition (yes, i explained i didn't have worldgorger and only 2 creatures that did something) and it was the most fun i was able to play while everyone built their board states and focused me while literally all i did was discard a card to draw a card, many times. Most of the time with nothing else to take advantage of all my card drawing and discarding.
I'm known by my friends to be the villain of any game we play. I'm also the DM for our d&d sessions. No matter what I play, if a single card I play in any way threatens a single player, I'm attacked or targeted by everyone. Last night I goaded 2 creatures and everybody ignored the Krenko player when he was at 60+ goblins but because I had goad and "all opponent creatures attack if able" cards, they 3v1'd me anyways, and the goblin player won. I was the only one slowing the goblin player, I had 2 creatures. I guess nobody likes political decks and prefers death by swarm lol also, I had been attacked by the goblin player the most thus far.
I have a friend that was using banned cards in one of his decks… so i added stasis to my muldrotha! Unless they exile it i can allways replay it. Needless to say he removed his banned cards pretty fast
I don't really mind Teferi's Protection. It at least gives the weakest color in commander to save itself from a rift. But yeah the price is absurd. Unless they make a commanders masters set with a regular print run, this will just be expensive for no reason
It's about time for an EDH masters set, especially now with the printing of arcane signet. Not to mention cards like Commander Beacon and thought vessel.
I have Aura Shards, Rhystic Study, and Cyclonic Rift in the same deck. They are the only cards from this list that I own/play. Even if I owned the others I wouldn't play them because they don't fit my personal playstyle. Great video and I liked your list a lot more than others I've seen of the same subject.
I expected Vorinclex to be here, cause i too play him in my commander deck. It's even more annoying because most of the time i do not cast him. I either fetch him or put him in instantly.
It sounds like you don't want any interaction or obstacles in your games of Magic. Just a race to see who gets their combo off first and win.... that doesn't sound like a fun card game to me. Here's a suggestion for all the cards you listed, if you don't like playing against those cards then try playing with some removal spells or cards that nullify what your opponents are trying to do. They Armageddon, you play Heroic Intervention. They play Consecrated Sphinx or Vorinclex? You Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshares them. If people would just play with an appropriate amount of removal spells then people could play whatever threatening card they wanted and it'd be up to the rest of the players to solve that problematic card.
Sands of Time, Stasis, and similar cards that skip the Untap step will really screw over Teferi's Protection. Also I think that any card, like Thieves Auction, that goes into a Chaos archetype deck should be on this list. Mostly because they slow down the game
I'm pretty sure they changed the phasing rules due to Teferi's Protection. Now things phase in, regardless, just before the untap step, in a new, otherwise unavailable psuedo-step that cannot be responded to.
@@andrewsparkes8829 phasing still happens at the beginning of the untap step. So no the rules have not changed. Here is an excerpt from wizard's website 502.15. Phasing 502.15a Phasing is a static ability that modifies the rules of the untap step. 502.15b During each player's untap step, before the active player untaps his or her permanents, all permanents with phasing the player controls phase out. Simultaneously, all objects that had phased out under that player's control phase in. (See rule 217.8, "Phased-Out," and rule 302.1.) 502.15c If an effect causes a player to skip his or her untap step, the phasing event simply doesn't occur that turn.
I've never had an issue with teferi's protection. if you are in a position to kill them with something that they need it for, then you should be either able to just respond to the cast by killing them, or set up to kill them during their upkeep. essentially what I'm saying is a lot of the time it seems like an expensive fog. also doesn't help that people don't know how to read cards. teferi's protection essentially only gives you hexproof against mill, and if someone is playing a mill deck they should have answers to deal with that.
Surprised to not see Smothering Tithe, typically because it leads into the Riches win condition (which is easily cast using your free treasure tokens).
So... Is it okay that I play mycosynth lattice and vandalblast?... 😆 Also.. I find it ironic that I usually try to avoid the hated cards, but own 2 mindslavers, 2 aura shards and 3 cyclonic rifts.... (All bought when they were in standard and under a dollar a piece). But I actually removed my mindslaver from my Osgir deck. Was too slow imo.
i made 11tix from Mystic Remora haha. it skyrocketed from dirt to what it is now and i only owned it for less than a month lol. i only had it in Muldrotha and there's plenty of replacements
Love cyclonic rift, sometimes it screws me, but it's so satisfying when I'm the one casting. So I forgive everyone else using it too. It's just a game. Not the end of the world.
tbh for our playgroup, cyclonic rift is one of the great equalizers. Keeps the games from ending at the first boardstate and even weak decks get to be the archenemy once after they casted rift.
At my LGS we play a gamemode called Treachery, generally 6 players at the table. When all 6 players play a Rift at one point or another in the game, the game stagnates really hard. Especially as Treachery is a gamemode where the games tend to take a long time to finish, the games often went on for 3h+. We ended up banning C Rift in Treachery, because the games were just too goddamn long due to it.
I agree on all the cards you mentioned, if we exclude Aura Shards (I think it is easy to deal with and has no immediate impact). But I think you could have mentioned Zur together with Narset, as both are enchantmentbased decks, that are pretty unfun in casual, if not built in some silly, janky way.
In daretti scrap savant's emblem mind slaver is a win con, like I use it and take the next persons turn then after I end my turn mind slaver comes back and I repeat so that in the only one playing
I played with a card called arbiter of knollridge when I was in a 1v1v1 and was on four health and my friends were on 54 health and 10 health, when arbiter of knollridge enters the battlefield everyone gets the life total of the person with the most life so we ended up all on 54 health and running out of health
My list: 1. Force of Will/Pact of Negation: the zero mana counterspells. ugh. 2. The original Eldrazi Titans: In many, particularly mono-green decks, it is not that hard to big butts out there. Annihilator 4. Ulamog especially is so common that I expect many decks to have it. 3. Frickin' Narset indeed. Actually, any Commander which enables the 'cheat out extra turn spells, chain 'em together' strategy, so Jodah, Archmage Eternal too. 4. Vorinclex. Just BORING. 5. Sheoldred: He does everything, he slows down everything. I don't know how many games I've played revolved around stealing, cloning, killing Sheoldreds. 6. Triumph of the Hordes/Tainted Strike: Just feels dirty. EDH should be played with 50% life total poison counters, i.e. lose at 20, not 10. 7. Muldrotha: Muldrotha NOOOO! 8. Glacial Chasm: Designed in another era, this card...can bring games to a halt. 9. Aminatou: not alone, but the typical Aminatou build...you thought Brago was tough? 10. Counterspell right now or die cards, e.g. Tooth 'n Nail entwined...it just strikes me as LAME that you can just sit there with a card, wait for an opening, cast that card, you win. DISAGREEMENTS: Aura Shards: It's targeted removal. It's a permanent. It's conditional, relying on creatures to ETB. I think there are worse things to worry about and in multiplayer an opponents Aura Shards is often getting rid of stuff that I also don't want on the field.
Built my Narset deck full of just good non-creature spells to cast - there's 1 extra turn card, and yes, there's an Approach of the Second Sun, but my deck lets people play the game and doesn't force them to watch me play Solitaire. I hate that myself.
I have a Grand Arbiter IV deck with Rhystic Study, Cyclonic rift, and Mindslaver in it. I only play it if my playgroup decides to play their annoying decks (Animar, Kozelik the great disruptor, Niv-Mizzet parun)
Really because I remember the exact opposite, Cyclonic Rift was in every single blue EDH deck I ever played against since the RTR Prerelease It did take a really long time for that card to become expensive though
@@TehFoamy yeah, mayb you are right, i forgot to put "in modern" i didn't play EDH at the beginning so i really don't know hahaha but it hurts the most when you know its initial cost
I have to disagree with the Cyclonic Rift. Deadeye Navigator is much more threatening unto the fact that once you get it onto the battlefield it is very difficult to remove unless you have a board wipe. I use him in my Yarok deck and combo him with Blue Whale, Peregrine Drake or Craterhoof Behemoth and the people I play with usually scoop as soon as Deadeye and one of these etb without being countered. Cyclonic Rift is frustrating but it feels more like a setback rather than game ending.
Somebody in my group cyc rifted Cheerio Jhoira player board. It wasn't the brightest idea. From bounce spells there is nothing more satisfying than aetherspouting rude awakened board of 24 lands.
Best thing is to be the control deck with open mana and rhystic study versus jhoira cheerios... You can bet they won't pay the 1 for their 20+ spells or for smothering tithe... You get mana and cards when they do XD
Extra turns is fine, rhystic study and teferi's protection is fine. The only things I dont like seeing is land destruction and stax type stuff. Even then, single target land destruction is forgivable as long as they aren't recurring the effect, but something like a strip mine is not unreasonable. There's lots of over powered lands that deserve to be strip mined.
If you're running a super greedy ramp deck with no recursion and not enough Mana rocks to adapt that's kinda on you. Armageddon effects are the only decent win con in white/boros
I love using Sorin. There's nothing better than getting revenge, or using it when someone goes off and starts doing broken stuff. I've won several games by swinging for more than 10 flying damage after activity his -3 , thus making it an out of nowhere win lol. But everything else I totally agree with! I like your videos man, keep it up!
Two cards I really hate are Warp World and the latest Rakdos. They just stall the game for no reason and most of the times they don't lead to a victory.
I don’t agree Teferi’s Protection should be on the list, I just try to protect myself for EXACTLY ONE TURN ONLY, and get hated? Am I suppose to just sit there and let the opponent kill me or wipe my entire board??? Smothering Tithe should be number 1, mana is scarier than card draw from Rhystic Study.
Once there’s no artifacts and enchantments on the field and u play a creature aura shards kills itself so it’s not that broken because to keep the lock on ur opponents u have to not cast creatures
My most hated cards are any trash spell that exists only as a means to an end. Deceiver Exarch for example. That card serves no ulterior purpose in a format like EDH other than to be a piece that a combo kills you with.
For example, Nicol Bolas, Dragon God has an ult that says each opponent that does not control a legendary loses. Teferi's protection won't help you then.
Wow deadeye navigator should be #1. You called it too. Flicker ETB effects are NUTS and super annoying. Oh let me flicker eternal witness and bring back my cyclonic rift from the graveyard and keep playing it EVERY TURN!
If Atraxa and Zur aren’t on this list I’ll be really confused also can you do a video on the top search creatures so like Caption Sisay Zur type where the creature searches multiple times
Several Gaming atraxa is strong and versatile but most hated? I think it has more to do with the build than her. She can enable some degenerate strategies but as a commander I think there are way worse things than her that can sit in the command zone.
Im actually tilted a little that teferi's protection made the list because its just a protection spell. its effectively a counterspell and not to mention its very possible to lose anyway if someone is trying to mill you out anyway. There are a lot of worse offenders in commander. dosent do anything to win a game unless someone is going for broke with apocalyse or something
Yeah I agree. Teferi's doesn't deserve to be hated. It's probably the best fog in the game, but it still has all the issues of a fog, in that it doesn't protect you from someone presenting a lethal boardstate. Its best-case scenario is definitely taking advantage of a wrath, which is definitely a thing worth considering, but it's definitely not a one-size fits all "save me from anything" piece. I would definitely call it a fair card. A very powerful fair card, but a fair card nonetheless.
It doesn't stop "You win the game" effects, if someone swings lethal at you, you get one more turn, but it does nothing to impact the boardstate so that problem is still present, it's unlikely to matter against combo and instant speed win-cons, and it doesn't stop non-targeting mill, though that last one is pretty uncommon as a win-con in commander. So yeah, it's best to stop spot removal and especially great against wraths.
You should've mentioned how bad a mindslave is under a mirrorworks card. One of my friends has an artifact deck built around that and door to nothingness
My feather deck drew the some of the most hate and groans from people because it had repeatable board wipes and answers for everything. Boardwipes on a stick are gross. Archfiend of depravity, crypt rats, pestilence. People lose their mind when you resolve a torment of hailfire x=10+
I don't know my oloro deck and pure ninja shadow deck make some people rage quit in 10 turns. And thankfully I got my teferis protection in my vampire edh deck for $36
So, basically people hate control cards... Seriously? I find the idea of everybody just trying to club each other to death super boring. We need variety in the format! I like to play control decks, but I also play a variety of different playstyles in general. Also, I'm REALLY tired of the hate for cyclonic rift ( and I've never even played it in a deck yet! ). Its not like it exiles like merciless eviction, or puts stuff in the graveyard for decks that don't have recursion: it just puts it back in your hand! You can play it again! I've never even played the card and I don't think the card is that oppressive. It just slows the game a bit! And this is coming from a person who plays tokens in most decks I build.
@@teddywebb6663 While true, it is still one of the most expensive board wipes in the entire format. Realistically, unless you're in green or have near infinite mana, you can't typically cast this spell and another one in the same turn. Cyclonic Rift is usually what comes from somebody passing the turn, without doing anything, and than casting it on end step before their turn. While annoying for sure, again, it is usually the only spell cast by that player in a turn. Unless they can win. While the instant speed is tough, it's not technically the only instant speed boardwipe nor the most impossible to come back from. Rout can can be cast instantly, for a price increase that is still cheaper than rift, and Terminus means you're likely not going to even be able to play the creatures again for the rest of the game. At least Rift let's you have a chance to play the cards again. I'm not saying Cyclonic Rift is not annoying: I'm just saying that it is not something that should be banned. It's just an extremely powerful card, and one of mono blues only boardwipes.
man, aura shards sucks and all, but you dont know true terror until you cast a mycosynth lattice with the last of your mana and pass to ME- a pro gamer, who has a full hand of creatures, a ton of mana, and an aura shards. "untap, upkeep, draw. i play aura shards. do you concede?" and the complete fool said no... go for the lands.
Kinda it needs build around though like you could build 5 colors with her but it seems stupidly clunky but if you go muldrotha that could be spicy I personally like 5 color cause then you get stranglehold that and emrakul just means oh you want a turn well to bad you cant
In my area all you hear is "ooo that's a good card." Only hate I've heard goes towards praetors or any extra turn spell
Prophet of Krufix intensifies
*uses both elesh norn and vorinclex in the same deck*
@@johncameron6877 I do in my jodah deck. It has all Titans, praetors, avacyn (indestructible), obliterate, decree of annihilation, blightsteel, skithryx, pretty much all the game winning cards. It was designs to be hated
I use vorniclex and sheoldred in the same deck lol vorniclex never lasts long so I don't feel too guilty about it
In my area when I play a hated card, usually someone slams their pistol down on the table and threatens to end my life if I play that card again
Many players just want to play their cards and not have to interact with their opponents. They hate STAX cards, but then are pissed when nothing stopped another player from winning out of nowhere. The same cards that stop STAX cards also stop combo decks. Players just don’t want to play interaction.
For me, Vorinclex all the way. It's paralyzing sitting there and staring at your lands that can't untap while the Vorinclex owner enjoys double mana. Great video!
My opponent discarded a Vorinclex to hand size when playing against my Lazav deck, so I changed Lazav into a Praetor, then played Animate Dead on the original. Having one is absolutely gross, but 2 is priceless.
@@PotatoGuidanceMissle The sculptor awaits your presence as he begins preparations on your bust for the Mount Rushmore of Evil. Smile.
Vorinclex is easier to deal with than Jin. Most edh decks use lots of artifact ramp and those are not effected. Stasis is way meaner.
I scrolled down to the comments to say exactly this
"I get to play twice as much Magic per turn while you all only get to play half as much Magic"
One turn cycle is usually all it takes for the Vorinclex player to win, if the table can't find a way to get it off the table
the eyes always roll when I drop a rhystic study...
Did you pay 1?
Would you like to pay 1?
In response pyroblast
I get some sighs and eyerolls whenever i drop smothering tithe XD
Drop a Smothering Tithe in response. :D
The most annoying EDH Deck.
Every nonland card says "Whenever an opponent", "Whenever a player", or "At the beginning/end".
@skettit Discrimminit when you play the flash deck but forget to blow your load in the last end step and now you need to pretend you planned to cast nothing.
Can we say "strionic resonator" for trigger effects
Taking extra turns is a lot of fun, unless you are the one sitting across from the players doing it 😁
Raydel Martinez he did make the distinction that taking extra turns without winning the game is more of a problem. If I’m taking extra turns, it is usually a infinite turn combo that results in me winning the game. Otherwise you are just taking one turn that takes twice as long, which is annoying.
The only card I have a problem with is mindslayer because DONT TOUCH MY CARDS ;)
Exactly
Yea I found out quickly my Thrasios/Silas Renn deck built around looping Mindslaver was my most hated deck ever.
Especially when people have snack dust on their hands
Laughs while holding Emrakul.
Laughs back in Baral
Teferis Protection was reprinted, as a foiled judge promo >.>
Static Orb also shuts off when tapped, the Masterpiece version has the updated text. Also Infect is also hated for Commander as nothing says unfair like forcing a 10 life handicap on all your opponents.
Teferi's Protection? I thought you meant the $40 second place/win card
*60
"Mystic remora which doesn't see a lot of play."
What are you talking about? Mystic remora is incredibly common.
Depends on your playgroup
it's very common in cedh, but somewhat rare in casual playgroups
Never see remora in casual
I love when someone plays rhystic study, because as they draw cards I get Mana from smothering tithe LOL
The cards I hate the most are ones that either require a master's degree in English and Calculus to figure out. Humility, while seemingly simple, has too many intricacies that I cant run it in any decks. Do I mind if others use it? No, so long as they explain exactly what it does lol.
Godhead of Awe says hi (lol)
You're honestly one of my favorite commander related channels next to Commander Quarters. Can you please open a Patreon already?
I like Commander Quarters too. As for patreon, I used to have one and might be remaking one with better tiers.
@@CommanderVoid I hope you do as I would like to support you but I purchase my cards from my LGS when possible so the links aren't a good way for me to do that.
I understand. I give my own lgs a priority on big purchases.
Lately I've noticed that Fires of invention from Throne of Eldraine seems to be a really good enchantment to get around vorinclex as you can cast spells equal to or less then the amount of lands you have without spending their mana cost and for the mindlsaver you can also use Glissa the Traitor
I'd like to add a card to this list, because in the tournaments I go to, this card is despised. Not broken, but too strong for EDH if it gets out early: Serra Ascendant.
I'd say it was a design mistake to make specific life totals relevant, and I'm glad they've been fixing mechanics like that to be higher than your starting life total rather than a specific life total. I've never had issues with the card though.
@@PotatoGuidanceMissle though unlikely, picture this scenario. your opponent, first turn, plains, Serra Ascendant. Then say hypothetically you don't stop it until it's attacked 4 times. You're already down 24 life and your opponent up 24. Then they have been preparing more in the meantime
@@vidlover69 That's worst case scenario for me. My decks have a ton of removal usually, plus with 2 other people at the table, odds are its gonna die.
@@PotatoGuidanceMissle i guess it's different when you play with a clique that dominates tournaments and sticks together to knock out everyone else
@@vidlover69 Yeah, my group isnt very political. They dont care what happens so long as it doesnt slow them down or kill them.
Looks at list... looks at every single deck I currently own.
Oh... so just calling me out are ya :p
😳
Mindslaver + Emry, Lurker of the Loch + Wilderness Reclamation = control all future turns if you get to 6 mana. Simply play it using Emry's tap ability in your main phase and activate it during your end step after your lands untap. Then, control the opponent's turn, tap them out before the end of their turn, and do the same thing during your next turn. Effectively, you control all of their future turns while they have no mana on your turn with which to react.
Friend of mine has Sen Triplets as his commander for one of his decks. I hate that thing soooooooooooo much.
I have never understood the hate for the triplets in multiplayer. There's always someone who removes it. In 1v1 on the other hand...
If you cast torpor orb which is a flexible 2 mana of any color you can easily stop most creature-enter-the-battlefield abilities
i use like half of these lol
People must like to play with you
You monster
My merieke deck uses literally half these cards lol it’s control win with your stuff so yeah lol
Honestly it just kind of sounds like a lot of these people don't like control decks. I don't understand why people have such a big issue with counter spells and things like that, but they don't care about black cards that kill your creature it's the same concept blue just has to decide whether they want to kill your creature when you cast it they don't have the option of waiting till later.
I have a large 25+ playgroup that plays both competitive and casual EDH and I’m fine with all of these cards. I throw a lot more hatred towards boring win cons like torment of hailfire or craterhoof behemoth honestly.
If you've got an intricate way to stall the game, like Sunder+Wheel, I'm in love. If you just play Stasis with Teferi, its not even close to original
you forgot the plainswalker that can also just "take control of your turn". And honestly, i don't mind the cyclonic rift that much, my problem so far is when someone has an oppressive board state and everyone targets me regardless of my board state often being a 3 against me where with they're limited resources combined they aim to take me out of the game. I take a shower, i use deodorant, i wear clean clothes. Nowaday's , if i don't run Glacial Chasm in all my decks (with a way to remove or flicker it) i get taken out of the game often by round 5.
Just had to clarify, and i know this is unbelievable, when i play any oppressive card that's only slightly oppressive (like that cat creature where if someone was to draw 2 cards instead the opponent and i both draw one card) it gets blown up fast or otherwise removed. Meanwhile, someone (not me) plays something like Winterorb, grand arbiter, attaching blightstaff to avatar of woe, no one has a problem with it. In fact, when someone decides to play what's his name of trest, elsha, son of yawgmoth, everyone targets me regardless of what i play.
And thank you for reading my wining, i literally built a deck using Anje where the commander deck's focus was for me to "draw cards" with no actual win condition (yes, i explained i didn't have worldgorger and only 2 creatures that did something) and it was the most fun i was able to play while everyone built their board states and focused me while literally all i did was discard a card to draw a card, many times. Most of the time with nothing else to take advantage of all my card drawing and discarding.
I'm known by my friends to be the villain of any game we play. I'm also the DM for our d&d sessions. No matter what I play, if a single card I play in any way threatens a single player, I'm attacked or targeted by everyone. Last night I goaded 2 creatures and everybody ignored the Krenko player when he was at 60+ goblins but because I had goad and "all opponent creatures attack if able" cards, they 3v1'd me anyways, and the goblin player won. I was the only one slowing the goblin player, I had 2 creatures. I guess nobody likes political decks and prefers death by swarm lol also, I had been attacked by the goblin player the most thus far.
I have a friend that was using banned cards in one of his decks… so i added stasis to my muldrotha! Unless they exile it i can allways replay it. Needless to say he removed his banned cards pretty fast
How's it going, Voidmage? Your vids are very useful and cool
Awesome to hear! Thanks
I don't really mind Teferi's Protection. It at least gives the weakest color in commander to save itself from a rift.
But yeah the price is absurd. Unless they make a commanders masters set with a regular print run, this will just be expensive for no reason
It's about time for an EDH masters set, especially now with the printing of arcane signet. Not to mention cards like Commander Beacon and thought vessel.
I have Aura Shards, Rhystic Study, and Cyclonic Rift in the same deck. They are the only cards from this list that I own/play. Even if I owned the others I wouldn't play them because they don't fit my personal playstyle. Great video and I liked your list a lot more than others I've seen of the same subject.
I expected Vorinclex to be here, cause i too play him in my commander deck. It's even more annoying because most of the time i do not cast him. I either fetch him or put him in instantly.
It sounds like you don't want any interaction or obstacles in your games of Magic. Just a race to see who gets their combo off first and win.... that doesn't sound like a fun card game to me. Here's a suggestion for all the cards you listed, if you don't like playing against those cards then try playing with some removal spells or cards that nullify what your opponents are trying to do. They Armageddon, you play Heroic Intervention. They play Consecrated Sphinx or Vorinclex? You Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshares them. If people would just play with an appropriate amount of removal spells then people could play whatever threatening card they wanted and it'd be up to the rest of the players to solve that problematic card.
Sands of Time, Stasis, and similar cards that skip the Untap step will really screw over Teferi's Protection. Also I think that any card, like Thieves Auction, that goes into a Chaos archetype deck should be on this list. Mostly because they slow down the game
I'm pretty sure they changed the phasing rules due to Teferi's Protection. Now things phase in, regardless, just before the untap step, in a new, otherwise unavailable psuedo-step that cannot be responded to.
@@andrewsparkes8829 phasing still happens at the beginning of the untap step. So no the rules have not changed. Here is an excerpt from wizard's website
502.15. Phasing
502.15a Phasing is a static ability that modifies the rules of the untap step.
502.15b During each player's untap step, before the active player untaps his or her permanents, all permanents with phasing the player controls phase out. Simultaneously, all objects that had phased out under that player's control phase in. (See rule 217.8, "Phased-Out," and rule 302.1.)
502.15c If an effect causes a player to skip his or her untap step, the phasing event simply doesn't occur that turn.
I have emurkl the promised end and I swear it's a whole meme
I've never had an issue with teferi's protection. if you are in a position to kill them with something that they need it for, then you should be either able to just respond to the cast by killing them, or set up to kill them during their upkeep. essentially what I'm saying is a lot of the time it seems like an expensive fog.
also doesn't help that people don't know how to read cards. teferi's protection essentially only gives you hexproof against mill, and if someone is playing a mill deck they should have answers to deal with that.
Arcuum Dagson deserves an honorable mention. Actually, most tier one decks when played against casuals
Arcuum is bad now. Paradox engine got banned
Surprised to not see Smothering Tithe, typically because it leads into the Riches win condition (which is easily cast using your free treasure tokens).
Armageddon into cyclonic rift into teferi’s protection
Relax Satan
World purge hold priority into teferi's protection is a much cleaner way to do this.
Sunder, Cyclonic Rift, Time Twister.
@@PotatoGuidanceMissle you horrible person how could you. I like it
I think you forgot Humility. It's hated for what it does and for the interaction with other cards, creating a rules nightmare.
Teferi's Protection was printed as a Judge Promo in 2018. Yeah it should be reprinted more but it has been reprinted.
So... Is it okay that I play mycosynth lattice and vandalblast?... 😆
Also.. I find it ironic that I usually try to avoid the hated cards, but own 2 mindslavers, 2 aura shards and 3 cyclonic rifts.... (All bought when they were in standard and under a dollar a piece). But I actually removed my mindslaver from my Osgir deck. Was too slow imo.
i made 11tix from Mystic Remora haha. it skyrocketed from dirt to what it is now and i only owned it for less than a month lol. i only had it in Muldrotha and there's plenty of replacements
Love cyclonic rift, sometimes it screws me, but it's so satisfying when I'm the one casting. So I forgive everyone else using it too. It's just a game. Not the end of the world.
WHAT!? *screeching noises*
tbh for our playgroup, cyclonic rift is one of the great equalizers. Keeps the games from ending at the first boardstate and even weak decks get to be the archenemy once after they casted rift.
@@ich3730
This is the Problem if you Cast it Most at the Time You win . It is not Funny to lose Because of one Card.
At my LGS we play a gamemode called Treachery, generally 6 players at the table. When all 6 players play a Rift at one point or another in the game, the game stagnates really hard. Especially as Treachery is a gamemode where the games tend to take a long time to finish, the games often went on for 3h+. We ended up banning C Rift in Treachery, because the games were just too goddamn long due to it.
So what do y’all think about the new format pioneer?
I agree on all the cards you mentioned, if we exclude Aura Shards (I think it is easy to deal with and has no immediate impact).
But I think you could have mentioned Zur together with Narset, as both are enchantmentbased decks, that are pretty unfun in casual, if not built in some silly, janky way.
We will most likely see tefaris protection again in like the next core set they already teased tefaris return
Yeah, Wizard won't print Teferi's Protection into standard, and definitely not into a Core Set.
@@jayabber7323 i don't think it would be broken in standard
In daretti scrap savant's emblem mind slaver is a win con, like I use it and take the next persons turn then after I end my turn mind slaver comes back and I repeat so that in the only one playing
I played with a card called arbiter of knollridge when I was in a 1v1v1 and was on four health and my friends were on 54 health and 10 health, when arbiter of knollridge enters the battlefield everyone gets the life total of the person with the most life so we ended up all on 54 health and running out of health
Should just be called list of cards you should have answers for.
Or "cards you never use unless you wa t to enjoy magic," because if you play them you WILL be hated out of every game first
Man every time I drop down Vorinclex, opponent freak out and try to attack me and get rid of that thing asap, ridiculous lol.
I use Mindslaver against combo decks to either have them kill themselves or kill themselves and my other opponents too.
My list: 1. Force of Will/Pact of Negation: the zero mana counterspells. ugh. 2. The original Eldrazi Titans: In many, particularly mono-green decks, it is not that hard to big butts out there. Annihilator 4. Ulamog especially is so common that I expect many decks to have it. 3. Frickin' Narset indeed. Actually, any Commander which enables the 'cheat out extra turn spells, chain 'em together' strategy, so Jodah, Archmage Eternal too. 4. Vorinclex. Just BORING. 5. Sheoldred: He does everything, he slows down everything. I don't know how many games I've played revolved around stealing, cloning, killing Sheoldreds. 6. Triumph of the Hordes/Tainted Strike: Just feels dirty. EDH should be played with 50% life total poison counters, i.e. lose at 20, not 10. 7. Muldrotha: Muldrotha NOOOO! 8. Glacial Chasm: Designed in another era, this card...can bring games to a halt. 9. Aminatou: not alone, but the typical Aminatou build...you thought Brago was tough? 10. Counterspell right now or die cards, e.g. Tooth 'n Nail entwined...it just strikes me as LAME that you can just sit there with a card, wait for an opening, cast that card, you win. DISAGREEMENTS: Aura Shards: It's targeted removal. It's a permanent. It's conditional, relying on creatures to ETB. I think there are worse things to worry about and in multiplayer an opponents Aura Shards is often getting rid of stuff that I also don't want on the field.
Wow I want build a deck with all these cards haha, have a wonderful day
Had someone play apocalypse, fun times😅 I'll play annoying stuff too, void winnower and stormtide leviathan😬
NOTI GANG!
Love your vids void.
Also first
Built my Narset deck full of just good non-creature spells to cast - there's 1 extra turn card, and yes, there's an Approach of the Second Sun, but my deck lets people play the game and doesn't force them to watch me play Solitaire. I hate that myself.
Just wanted to point this out, Static Orb works the same as Winter Orb, if its tapped it doesn't work
I have a Grand Arbiter IV deck with Rhystic Study, Cyclonic rift, and Mindslaver in it. I only play it if my playgroup decides to play their annoying decks (Animar, Kozelik the great disruptor, Niv-Mizzet parun)
Yup... cards that just stop stuff fro happening just for slowing the game are soooo boring to NOT play against xD
man i remember when ciclonic rift came out and no one played it, and now its 20 dolars for a .50 cent card back in the day
Really because I remember the exact opposite, Cyclonic Rift was in every single blue EDH deck I ever played against since the RTR Prerelease
It did take a really long time for that card to become expensive though
@@TehFoamy yeah, mayb you are right, i forgot to put "in modern" i didn't play EDH at the beginning so i really don't know hahaha but it hurts the most when you know its initial cost
It has never been 50 cents. Ever.
@@TehFoamy edh was really not that popular yet when cyclonic rift was introduced to standard.
@@Wistbacka This is objectively false, EDH was already hugely popular in late 2012
I have to disagree with the Cyclonic Rift. Deadeye Navigator is much more threatening unto the fact that once you get it onto the battlefield it is very difficult to remove unless you have a board wipe. I use him in my Yarok deck and combo him with Blue Whale, Peregrine Drake or Craterhoof Behemoth and the people I play with usually scoop as soon as Deadeye and one of these etb without being countered. Cyclonic Rift is frustrating but it feels more like a setback rather than game ending.
Deadeye navigator is not a good card. If you want to play infinite combos, play good ones.
@@wedonttalkaboutthis5240 depends on what format your playing, in Modern it's laughable, in Commander it can win you the game.
@@karmacollector7404 I play competitive edh. It's laughable there too.
@@wedonttalkaboutthis5240 Ah, that's where we differ, casual vs competitive. I was thinking this list was for more casual play.
@@karmacollector7404 I play casual too and deadeye navigator is just not that annoying
Mono green, and both vorinclex will cause a scoop on turn 5-6.
Somebody in my group cyc rifted Cheerio Jhoira player board. It wasn't the brightest idea.
From bounce spells there is nothing more satisfying than aetherspouting rude awakened board of 24 lands.
Best thing is to be the control deck with open mana and rhystic study versus jhoira cheerios... You can bet they won't pay the 1 for their 20+ spells or for smothering tithe... You get mana and cards when they do XD
As a cEDH Jhoira player, rift is almost never the play unless it is single target dramatic scepter/Jhoira
come on. everybody loves Cyclonic Rift
I somehow fear, that this isn't sarcasm...
Extra turns is fine, rhystic study and teferi's protection is fine. The only things I dont like seeing is land destruction and stax type stuff. Even then, single target land destruction is forgivable as long as they aren't recurring the effect, but something like a strip mine is not unreasonable. There's lots of over powered lands that deserve to be strip mined.
Oh yeah and discard effects. I hate discarding cards. Unless I'm playing muldrotha, then I'm really happy to see a discard themed deck lol
If you're running a super greedy ramp deck with no recursion and not enough Mana rocks to adapt that's kinda on you. Armageddon effects are the only decent win con in white/boros
Bringer of the White Dawn and Mindslaver was my first combo. I love it.
You do realize that if you play academy ruins and mindslaver it actually costs less mana and is instant speed
@@brucepraska7781 I was a kid. Bringer of the White Dawn was the single most amazing card I'd ever seen. So I just went with it.
I love using Sorin. There's nothing better than getting revenge, or using it when someone goes off and starts doing broken stuff. I've won several games by swinging for more than 10 flying damage after activity his -3 , thus making it an out of nowhere win lol. But everything else I totally agree with! I like your videos man, keep it up!
my fav combo is sorin with sorins vengance. both 7 mana and go together like pb & j
Two cards I really hate are Warp World and the latest Rakdos. They just stall the game for no reason and most of the times they don't lead to a victory.
I don’t agree Teferi’s Protection should be on the list, I just try to protect myself for EXACTLY ONE TURN ONLY, and get hated? Am I suppose to just sit there and let the opponent kill me or wipe my entire board??? Smothering Tithe should be number 1, mana is scarier than card draw from Rhystic Study.
I agree with you. I have played many games where there is a board wipe every turn cycle. Gets old fast.
Update: Teferi’s protection reprinted in strixhaven
Once there’s no artifacts and enchantments on the field and u play a creature aura shards kills itself so it’s not that broken because to keep the lock on ur opponents u have to not cast creatures
Aura shards is a may ability
Aura shards is a may effect. So it will only leave when you want it to. Your argument is invalid and you should feel bad.
retromancer yeah I was thinking it’s the same as harmonic sliver
My most hated cards are any trash spell that exists only as a means to an end. Deceiver Exarch for example. That card serves no ulterior purpose in a format like EDH other than to be a piece that a combo kills you with.
Theoretically if their was an effect that said something like each opponent loses the game, would teferi’s protection stop you from losing?
no
For example, Door to Nothingness says "target player loses the game"
For example, Nicol Bolas, Dragon God has an ult that says each opponent that does not control a legendary loses. Teferi's protection won't help you then.
Sounds to me more like a personal hate list than a list of in general hated cards.
I hate expropriate. It’s in my friend’s Kruphix deck, and I’ve only managed to win one game when it was played. Otherwise it’s been a game ender.
Wow deadeye navigator should be #1. You called it too. Flicker ETB effects are NUTS and super annoying. Oh let me flicker eternal witness and bring back my cyclonic rift from the graveyard and keep playing it EVERY TURN!
Deadeye navigator is not a good card. If you are going to play infinite combos, play good ones
If Atraxa and Zur aren’t on this list I’ll be really confused also can you do a video on the top search creatures so like Caption Sisay Zur type where the creature searches multiple times
Several Gaming atraxa is strong and versatile but most hated? I think it has more to do with the build than her. She can enable some degenerate strategies but as a commander I think there are way worse things than her that can sit in the command zone.
Jake applegate that’s why she’s really hated
Man, I really don't know how I knew that cyclonic rift was gonna be number 1......
Im actually tilted a little that teferi's protection made the list because its just a protection spell. its effectively a counterspell and not to mention its very possible to lose anyway if someone is trying to mill you out anyway. There are a lot of worse offenders in commander. dosent do anything to win a game unless someone is going for broke with apocalyse or something
Yeah I agree. Teferi's doesn't deserve to be hated. It's probably the best fog in the game, but it still has all the issues of a fog, in that it doesn't protect you from someone presenting a lethal boardstate.
Its best-case scenario is definitely taking advantage of a wrath, which is definitely a thing worth considering, but it's definitely not a one-size fits all "save me from anything" piece.
I would definitely call it a fair card. A very powerful fair card, but a fair card nonetheless.
It doesn't stop "You win the game" effects, if someone swings lethal at you, you get one more turn, but it does nothing to impact the boardstate so that problem is still present, it's unlikely to matter against combo and instant speed win-cons, and it doesn't stop non-targeting mill, though that last one is pretty uncommon as a win-con in commander. So yeah, it's best to stop spot removal and especially great against wraths.
You should've mentioned how bad a mindslave is under a mirrorworks card. One of my friends has an artifact deck built around that and door to nothingness
Mindslaver is a Legendary, so he shouldn't be able to copy it
@@greatbrandini3967 somehow he pulls it off with his combo of sculpting steel, mirrorworks and it and it's a very annoying deck overall
Yeah, many do not like it when my Vorinclex comes out.
My feather deck drew the some of the most hate and groans from people because it had repeatable board wipes and answers for everything. Boardwipes on a stick are gross. Archfiend of depravity, crypt rats, pestilence. People lose their mind when you resolve a torment of hailfire x=10+
Did you try Mana web ? That is a pain.
Could you imagine Mana Web and Vorinclex together. That would be terrible. Although I don't mind Mana Web by itself.
I don't know my oloro deck and pure ninja shadow deck make some people rage quit in 10 turns. And thankfully I got my teferis protection in my vampire edh deck for $36
being aggro Beat downer my self I use those hated cards as my excuse to focus damage on players.
So, basically people hate control cards... Seriously? I find the idea of everybody just trying to club each other to death super boring. We need variety in the format! I like to play control decks, but I also play a variety of different playstyles in general.
Also, I'm REALLY tired of the hate for cyclonic rift ( and I've never even played it in a deck yet! ). Its not like it exiles like merciless eviction, or puts stuff in the graveyard for decks that don't have recursion: it just puts it back in your hand! You can play it again! I've never even played the card and I don't think the card is that oppressive. It just slows the game a bit! And this is coming from a person who plays tokens in most decks I build.
Cyclonic Rift offers no loss of tempo, and is an instant, unlike merciless eviction and similar wipes.
@@teddywebb6663 While true, it is still one of the most expensive board wipes in the entire format. Realistically, unless you're in green or have near infinite mana, you can't typically cast this spell and another one in the same turn. Cyclonic Rift is usually what comes from somebody passing the turn, without doing anything, and than casting it on end step before their turn. While annoying for sure, again, it is usually the only spell cast by that player in a turn. Unless they can win. While the instant speed is tough, it's not technically the only instant speed boardwipe nor the most impossible to come back from. Rout can can be cast instantly, for a price increase that is still cheaper than rift, and Terminus means you're likely not going to even be able to play the creatures again for the rest of the game. At least Rift let's you have a chance to play the cards again. I'm not saying Cyclonic Rift is not annoying: I'm just saying that it is not something that should be banned. It's just an extremely powerful card, and one of mono blues only boardwipes.
Mystic remora is played un almost each blue deck lol
How can you say that facts don't care about your feelings when you are using false facts
Wedont Talkaboutthis what?
Even though I don't play any of these cards, people still don't like playing with me cause I make tons of misplays.
Back in the days I hated Lobotomy. Now I hate when they play Runaway Steam-kin and Nightpack Ambusher.
5:04 Boringclix was my nickname for this one
Cyclonic Rift and Hinata, Dawn Crowned?
I have both Rhystic Study and Cyclonic Rift in my Claw of Progress deck 😎
Hmm, no Painful Quandary, that's kinda surprising.
Oloro anyone? I think if Mindslaver was played more it would be #1 for sure
Good list. Thank you
I played Vorinclex once, never again lol
Same
I use them all -_-
man, aura shards sucks and all, but you dont know true terror until you cast a mycosynth lattice with the last of your mana and pass to ME- a pro gamer, who has a full hand of creatures, a ton of mana, and an aura shards.
"untap, upkeep, draw. i play aura shards. do you concede?"
and the complete fool said no...
go for the lands.
Mana rock you into vandal blast. You should have gone for the head.
I hate blue too! Yay someone understands oh great youtuber!
if the Rift is #1, Teferi's protection should be #2
Interesting logic?
not gonna lie, I agree with Magister Sphinx. I run him in Sharuum but Sideboard him unless im playing against my "friends who like to be magic dicks"
Holy shit I have a Cyclonic Rift...everything else I really want but costs like $50+. I got CR from a booster lol
Emrakul is meaner than Mindslaver IMO.
Kinda it needs build around though like you could build 5 colors with her but it seems stupidly clunky but if you go muldrotha that could be spicy I personally like 5 color cause then you get stranglehold that and emrakul just means oh you want a turn well to bad you cant