Did Frank Zappa Compose the First Djent Riff?
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Did the the Mother of Invention invent Djent riffing?
I've always loved Frank's ostinato from Andy off his 1975 release, One Size Fits All. The original was played by Tom Fowler on bass, accompanied by Chester Thompson on drums and George Duke on keys - what a freakin' line up, right???
It's quite tricky to play - well, for me, anyway.
Ever since one of my sons started downloading Animals As Leaders, Circles, Periphery, and more, I began thinking "Zappa already wrote an awesome riff like this."
In this quick clip I try to test that theory.
With some sage advice from Scott Thunes.
So, whether you like #Zappa or #Djent #riffs, you'll probably get something out of this.
Played on my ol' faithful Fernandes Strat. Used an octave patch in Logic because I don't have a 7 or 8 string guitar.
#Meshugga #AnimalsAsLeaders #Periphery
Frank’s solos were unearthly. It took me a while, also, to appreciate just what the hell he was up to. But once I did, I’ve been in perpetual awe at his utter brilliance. Each one is like an improvised symphony. His solo at the end of ‘Yo Mama’ is a cosmic event. And yes, I think you’re correct in identifying this track as the first instance of djent.
Oh yeah, Yo Mama! Thanks for the reminder. Listening to that one as I type. I also loved his playing on the extended solos from the Tinseltown Rebellion album.
@@dannyeddyguitar Absolutely. Sensational solos on that recording.
Zappa was the greatest composer of the 20th century
Certainly my fave
Certainly the greatest of the latter half, and stands shoulder to shoulder with all the great composers. I feel honored to have lived during his lifetime, and to have loved his music for so long. I miss him very much.
amen brother.
I'd say Stravinsky was, without Stravinsky there would be no Zappa.
Zappa for sure one of the most important composers of the twentieth century.
When everything is said and done, 500years from now, historians and music aficionados will see Frank Zappa as this generations Brahms or Beethoven. Its what George Duke said about him...that he knew his time was short in this world and he needed to say a lot in that short time...He did not disappoint...Absolute genius.
Yes! I love that he's still relevant, and gaining more relevancy!
You can call this riff proto-djent. FZ was a genius
Proto-Djent, I like it!
Zappa was my idol and will always like people recognizing his genius. Thanks from Québec
My absolute pleasure. :)
Saw FZ 3 times in Lyon and Saint Etienne (France) between 1978 and 1982. Always been a particular experience. Unique guitar playing (Shut up and Play...). Thanks for your videos Danny.
Incredible! It must have been such an experience to see the great man in the flesh.
I remember in Saint Etienne, Frank spent the half show conducting the band with a wand. His magic touch :) @@dannyeddyguitar
Love FZ.. saw him at Knebworth Festival in the 70's & again in 1980 at Wembley Empire Pool.. & took one of my son's to see Dweezil in Melbourne a few years ago... Keep these videos coming mate..
Wow! So so jealous you got to see Frank live!! I also saw Dweezil in Melbourne - was that the night Both Diesel and Jack Jones got up with him?
@@dannyeddyguitar The Palais Theatre..I remember Diesel getting up & getting a lukewarm reception... My mate Matt played bass with him, (Diesel) for many years... FZ was amazing live, as I'm sure you're well aware... The Knebworth show was like nothing i'd ever heard before..I still have the audio tape from it !! Also on that bill were the Boomtown Rats, Dave Edmunds & Nick Lowe, Wilko Johnson's Solid Sender's, Peter Gabriel, Todd Rundgren & The Tubes...!!
My friends tried to get me into Zappa when I was 1³ years old..it wasn't until I was 40 until I got it. now I 💘 Frank more than everything else.The best
Wonderful! And Frank left behind such a deep wealth of material for you to enjoy, Livio.
Very great informative video. Long live the Zappa love.
Thanks L o' the D! Great to see Zappa love is alive and well out there.
The parallels are there, great observation.
Thanks for having a look. :)
Frank's "Sloppiness" on the guitar is simply by way of influence of his guitar hero's.. Johnny Guitar Watson and et cetera. Frank❤️
Agree. Also, the fact that he was driven by creativity rather than trying to attain shredding perfection.
And the fact that FZ never played the same solo twice, he always improvised. The other musicians though...
@@dannyeddyguitar And tone. Constantly searhing for the good tone.
Viva Zappa. Father figure he was and I still miss him.
Same. He was the one.
Nice one Danny, great to hear another aussie so taken with Franks music. Where i came from (Kwinana in WA) he was huge!!
Frank was huge in Kwinana! Who woulda thought! I need to get some more Frank content out. SO much to talk about!
Andy is in my top 20 favourite Zappa tracks of all time. Thank you for showing it some love.
Same - amazing tune off an amazing album!
Great video Danny. Much love mate 💙
Ohhhhh mannnnn! I miss you, Joel! Thanks so much for the visit and the comment brother. Xx
Saw Frank do Andy in early '74. When the song finally came out I tried to play it. Just wish my phono had a slower speed than 16 so I could slow it down to learn the dam thing.
This is amazing! I absolutely LOVE hearing these stories. I never saw Frank live. Thanks for sharing.
@@dannyeddyguitar That evening they played Echidna. The sound was soooo good, it was the best thing I have ever heard. I couldn't even listen to the radio for at least a week. Those are the only two songs I remember. The light show was incredible too. During Andy the stage was blue and yellow and green lights came straight down on every player in exact time of the playing.
That was pretty cool, I love that riff. It always gets stuck in my head!
Frank Zappa was the greatest composer Period
He was something else!
Great video, but when you said you`d asked Scott Thunes about how to do that sort of thing I knew his reply was going to be a classic, lol
Thanks Missy. Yep, he's a character!
Excellent video on some of Frank's brilliant work! Your early understanding of Frank mirrors exactly how I got/or didn't get Frank when I first listened to his music and as for his solos...you're right! they weren't solo's as such but intricate compositions coloured by his rhythm section. As for your Djent theory...well that has blown my mind! Well done!
Thanks heaps Chris, so glad you enjoyed it. I'm definitely planning some Zappa gear.
@@dannyeddyguitar excellent, can’t wait!
I'm different, I've never fit in and people find me off-putting. No real wonder that Zappa's solos speak to me like nothing else does. Frank played those solos for himself and not the audience. It's Kaufmanesque before that was even a thing.
I love that about many artists, that they make us feel less... odd.
I think we are so spoilt with guitarists like John Scofield and Pat Metheny doing all this sophisticated harmonic stuff that it's hard to appreciate Zappa's guitar work from that angle. I've been mad into Zappa for over 30 years now and have only just started to appreciate this side of his music (his guitar playing) in the last 10 years or so. Rhythmically he did some awesome stuff with his lead playing. And I love that he rarely ever practiced and just totally went for it. If he had practiced more, he wouldn't have been able to write all that stunning music, which to me, transcends anything that anybody ever did on a guitar ever.
Yes!! I find that incredible, that he could go to that place in his mind where the great jazz players go, and CREATE. I would love to have just a sniff of that particular skill.
Frank Zappa was legendary.
So very true.
my favorite use of a riff during a zappa solo is packard goose guitar solo however the solo itself though done by zappa is from a different show its a example of xenochrony
That's one I'm not super familiar with. I'll have to go back and check it out. Thanks for the recommendation!
"Start slow. Work your speed up....."
Sounds like Scott - who is even crankier, more sarcastic, less tolerant of fools, and more inclined to say exactly what he thinks of them than Frank was.
Haha, yes. I should add, Scott was genuinely helpful and responsive. I really wanted to know if the bass was playing the exact phrase - including 32nd notes - because it's hard to tell on the recordings. Scott replied "Yes, I strenuously attempt to play them."
An earlier example would be Watcher of the Skies from Genesis in 1972. Djent/modern metal riffs are derived from early pedal tone riffs (rock and metal). Another early metal riff is in Ride My See-Saw by the Moody Blues from 1968. The bridge section at the 1:34 mark is a great metal riff.
Love it! These comments are SO educational for me - hadn't heard either of those. On the money with that Genesis riff!
There is also watcher of the skies by genesis, not as syncopated but still pretty heavy.
Nice analysis
Thanks Mark. This vid has received a greater response than I anticipated. Looks like I can indulge in some more Zappa gear!
sinister footwear 2 is so dark
Love it!
he was the best
Agreed Pete. Thanks for checking it out.
FZ is gawd
Amen
“Ms pinky” was Proto grunge! Should have been covered by soundgarden!
Yes! Definitely has that sound.
Moowah? Moo-Ahh!
Indeed!
the important thing about zappa is(waka), as it is with mclaughlin (dance of maja) , they also have a sense for beauty. Not only speed or technical sophistication. And i have to say, no ! he didnt invent "djent", because meshuggah did not only use a "new music" form of stakkato, i believe its more like a signature turn to the asymetrical riff that must be there. More like a speed jazz riff that goes off to go in again. Although you got such a part, that you found in a song called "Burn" that meshuggah did. Where it is the Stakkato and not the Turn.
Acutally i ran to the cd player and checked the disk for scratches when i first heard it. (destroy erase improve-Soul Burn/middle part)
Oh yes! McLaughlin! Great comparison. Now THERE'S a man with some ridiculous chops who - as you note - puts the Beauty ahead of the Shreddery.
His Guitar Solo s for Black Napkins, The Live Version, Inca Roads and Po Jama People have to be heard by Every guitarist. I mean Steve Vai idolized the Man when he was between 18 and 21. Years old. And later idolized him as a composer. His Guitar Solo s on The You are What You is Album are also great. Dumb All Over, Suicide Chump, Heavenly Bank Account.
And of Course all Solos on Joe s Garage.
Yes! His tone on Po Jama People is my all time fave I think.
@@dannyeddyguitar
I remember the First Time hearing it i was like What is that ? His Tone on all his 1975 releases is great.
He has a Clip of Chungas Revenge in the Mudd Club in 1980 where he has the dirtiest muddiest Tone Ever. He was really a Sound Genius.
I saw his Son Dweezil in September 2008 when i was a Zappa Fan for just 2 years he Played all my Favorites Inca Roads was Pure Magic.
ive been trying to wrap my head around this rhythm for weeks, it took me less time to figure out the nested tuplets on the black page. i have no idea why but for whatever reason this particular rhythm is impossible for me to memorize
Oh mate! I struggled with it for years. Until I sat down to make this clip, and practiced it methodically.
By the way - that Scott Thunes comment was real. Not an easy riff!
@@dannyeddyguitar Hey Danny! its been 6 months and i still cant do it
a like and also a comment for the algo. Carry on
Legend
Can you please do djent version of the purple lagoon?
I'll check it out
If you’d like other Zappa examples of proto djent or proto prog metal… or any other precursor of modern genre, let’s have a chat!!
I can give you a list of Zappa tracks!
Actually, I think it was Mozart...
[Citation required]
Beethoven’s Fifth is definitely in the running.
I still don't understand what you mean!
Me either!
Zappa and Holdsworth…..
Two aliens from another time and dimension.
Sloppiness? I've heard that before but never understood it. I don't play guitar and I don't like many guitarists. I don't know theory so Jazz doesn't resonate. And most rock guitars are boring. Frank is in the middle ground. It's technical but it's aggressive, and creative, and it swings. Name someone that can come within a fraction of the awesomeness of Frank's guitar albums and I'll give them a listen.
Thanks Michael. I think the 'sloppy' call comes from comparing Frank's awkward but attitude filled technique to perfectionists like Vai.
@@dannyeddyguitar I like that. To me, the sloppy bits sound intentional and effective rather than a mistake.
To be fair, Fredrick Thordendal of Meshuggah was heavily influenced by Zappa so i wouldn't doubt it was kind of the first Djent riff.
Wow! I did not know that! (I really don't know anything about Meshugga to be honest - except that Bleed is an amazing riff that I feel I will never be able to play, and that Misha Mansoor referenced them in his 'Djent' anecdote.)
Thanks Phillip.
also, Zappa was a master ENTERING the solos. The first notes, the first chords, whatever. For example: I come from Nowhere. Or Filthy Habits. Or....Black Napkins. Or...make your own list.
Absolutely! And his lead guitar tones - so many very different sounds, but all unmistakably Frank. I personally love his tone on the studio version of Zoot Allures.
Also check out the riff "Five-Five-FIVE" from the Shut up N Play Yer Guitar record.
Very Proto-Djent.
Do you know - I've never heard this song! I own so many Zappa albums on vinyl and CD but have never purchased Shut Up! I actually tried to play it off the page in another of my vids. I'm going to listen right now. I'll report back...
Well! That's wicked.
I've never heard of a Djent riff. I've listened to FZ for over 40 years and this riff to which you refer, for me, was always just Frank being the best guitarist in the world.
Robert Fripp uses these riffs in King Crimson music dating back to the early 70's.
Good call - Fripp definitely had a hand in pioneering this sort of syncopation!
"First up: who's Frank Zappa?"
Me: "Pfft... good one."
Rusty: "Pfft... good one."
Me: "Thanks for checking it out and commenting."
I'd rather you explain what's a Djent riff.
Saw frank in Syracuse NY live,very unterated guitar player!
So jealous! I never saw him. I've seen Dweezil do an astounding job. But I imagine a Frank show would have been far more chaotic and interactive.
If y'all have metal like Weasels Ripped My Flesh from the late sixties, I'm all ears.
Great album!
Man love that poster/frame , did you do it yourself?
Thanks Luis. My Mum found that online somewhere - it's a Quilt!
Gracias Danny, te mando un fuerte abrazo desde Argentina.El gran Frank nos sorprende nos educa y nos hace felices.
Muchas gracias, te mando un gran abrazo de vuelta.
What version of Alien Orifice is that?
I think it's off Can't Do That Onstage Anymore Vol 6
Ahh! finally some Zappa! Love ya Dan! killer stuff mate:)
Hahaha, yes finally! Thanks Kypo. Looks like I'll have to do some more by the great man...
I can only imagine it played on an 8 or 9 string
I know! (I can barely handle 6.)
Totally agree that riff has been on my mind for 25 years
Thanks for the visit LB.
we call it music
Real music!