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Just a note, is your statement that older ammunition will perform better from the newer and longer gun in T-14 a fact or assumption? Because older munition was designed with the older gun in mind, so it was designed to be aerodynamically efficient and accurate at certain muzzle velocities, but if you change the muzzle speed of APFSDS projectile, results may not be higher penetration but lower accuracy due to higher drag as shock cone from supersonic speed will form differently at different speeds, this is the same as if you expect that jetliner will fly beyond speed of sound just because you give it more powerful engine, you cannot expect a better performance of ammunition just because you shoot it from a longer gun and this is also because of the propellant... As the propellant in ammunition was designed to push for a certain length of a barrel, it may not even have properties to bring higher velocities through a longer barrel for which such munition propellant was not designed in a first place (it would be wasteful to introduce more propellant or higher pressures than current barrels length can utilize just because in future they may be longer). So, while the longer barrel is often associated with the longer range in generally lower-pressure artillery pieces, it is not an assured for much faster hypervelocity tank rounds launched from high-pressure barrels, generally you can expect the same performance, at worst even reduction in accuracy...
I’m sorry for not asking this Earlier, but what music do you use for the Sponser Part from the Beginining of the Video and before talking about the topic of the video?
Tbh... I think that if the t14 gets mass-produced ,we will see Russians start producing the chassis with the 152mm turret, as soon as newer American and German tanks start coming out... Since the armata chassis is designed to be able to have the turret and armour changed very easily and cheaper than one would expect.
@@arvedludwig3584 they have said they are working on a new tank and it will be released 2025 if I remember correctly and why don't they need an L55? all it gives is improvments
Strawberry Bleach the extra velocity gained by the L55 would be detrimental to the penetration of the APFSDS used by the US. Atleast again heavy ERA. This is because of how the APFSDS is designed to defeat this ERA. The m829A3 has a steel tip that is made to be broken off by the ERA. In order to do this it has to be long enough to keep the ERA flyer plate from hitting the DU rod behind it. however the longer you make to steel tip, the shorter the DU penetrator will be. so the US calculated the perfect length needed for the steel tip using the velocity of the projectile and the specifications of the ERA it’s meant to go against. If the speed of the projectile is increased, more if the penetrator will be fed into the path of the ERA flyer plate. Which will result in the DU penetrator being impacted by it, which will decrease its penetration. There are theories that the new m829a4 projectile found a way around this problem by using a datalink to separate the steel tip from the DU penetrator a certain distance in front of the target. Causing the steel tip to fly ahead and initiate ERA before the DU penetrator reaches the target. Thus allowing higher velocities
@@arvedludwig3584 maybe they are more focused on navy and air, but the 120mm will struggle against the Armata, so they might have to get a 125,130,or 135 going, or something
But you never mentioned the durability and the amount of shots 152mm could do comparing to 125, cos if o remember correctly its about half. And those brought the cost per shot issue with the more expensive maintenance of 152 and higher frequency of the maintenance itself... not mentioning the logistics and mass production of new ammo. So it sounds like not very reasonable thing to do.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 you should check how does comma works.. "But you never mentioned the durability and the amount of shots 152mm could do comparing to 125" that was finished part of the sentence, next was explanation.
Still a great tank to have in 1914 There should be a time-travel movie or novel in which Modern Russia sends back T-14s, AK- 12s Su-35s and RPG-32s to WW1 Russia! Imagine the faces of Germans and Austrian-Hungarians when they see the Russians with advanced military equipment WW1 is over in a month and the Armenian Genocide is averted. There is no Russian Civil War or Stalin Soviet Union
@@christiandauz3742 Conrad Von Hoetzendorf would learn about the Russian magic weapons and still think it's a great idea to throw all his men into an offensive. The Germans are another story though, expect to get reverse engineered.
@@christiandauz3742 There'sactually already a movie like that, bro 😅 It's called _The Final Countdown_ , and it's about a "modern" [1980's] U.S. aircraft carrier that gets sent back in time to 1941.
@Bleagle but it still take time(it also depends on the situation that Russia faces) and the Russians might need to make some adjustments to improve to design,maybe give it back up gunner's sight (I've heard that it's not on the tank),but the design's very good indeed,(anyway is that true that they've considered putting 152mm. on this thing, wouldn't it take more money and resources to develop Ammunitions for the new gun?) I hope they'd somehow fix their economy to make the development smoother and faster.
The sacred 152mm... First we have the M10 howizer, then we have ML20, then we have BL10, then we have M64, and now we have 2A83.. The 152mm legend shall live forever
2A83 is more of a wonder weapon more than anything, as it would be simply miles ahead of any tank guns. Hope to see Russians pick up on that with their upgraded T14. Because we all know the KV-2 caliber is best caliber.
Ah yes, because no one thought of doing this ever. There are no artillery systems with such calibers that showcase the problems with very large guns that need to be overcome to have an effective direct fire weapon capable of withstanding repeated shots without extensive maintenance. Something especially Russia is well known for. “Put bigger gun on it” isn’t new. Russia used to have artillery sized guns on some of its cold war tanks and there’s reasons why they moved away from those. Its the same reasons that the West gradually increases its sizes (same as Russia). Incremental improvements let them increase it more effectively than just slapping artillery guns on a tank.
@@TheDemigans No need to get mad, dude. Russian tanks are a) known for their reliability & easy maintenance and b) they already tested the gun on Object 292 where they reported that the recoil was barely any different to the original 125mm gun, surprising everyone. The maintenance issues that you speak of are simply non-existent. Putting bigger on it may not be new, but it is certainly an advantage. The kinetic energy increase and higher weight of APFSDS projectiles will increase armour penetration exponentially.
@@Firespectrum122 I’m not mad. Why would I be mad? And that recoil story is a fabrication. The length of the shells is easily between 20 to 33% difference already for many shells so that is already the extra mass you have to deal with and even if you assume similar length the increase in diameter is also a 35% increase in mass. That mass adds recoil even if you use the same amount of propellant. This is physics (tm). Not “write whatever you damn well please” (tm). Also those maintenance issues don’t just go away. You say the Russian tanks are easy to maintain but that does not mean that slapping a high-maintenance diameter gun will instantly make it go “oh this is a Russian tank I’ll reduce the amount of maintenance I need”. Also you seem to be missing a rather important distinction, “easy to maintain” just means you need less advanced degrees to work on a tank, it does not mean you need LESS maintenance. And despite this rugged reputation the Russians have attempted to build up we know from people who use Russian tanks (like Ukraine, east Germany post cold war, all the countries who buy and use Russian tanks) that these tanks do need a lot of maintenance ESPECIALLY because they are simple. Just because its comparatively easy to maintain does not mean it needs little to no maintenance.
There are two things I watch these videos for. Firstly is the awesome information on tanks. The second is because I can't get that damn song you keep using out of my head.
Yeah 150mm gun is just for scare. Because bigger calibers come with a serious disadvantage. Less ammunition on board! That is why intelligent tank producers only go for a bigger round when it is absolutely necessary and with a smaller round the opponent can't be defeated!
"the vehicles go from 1930s to 1990s" Khrizantema S: ok boomer
4 роки тому+9
Many older russian tanks use the old soviet carousel which provides room only for shorter rounds. This affects sabot effectiveness when penetrating armor. The newer versions use bigger carousel that enables longer shells, thus providing better penetration.
@@OverG88 It wasn't terrible for the time when top attack munitions were a thing. They had less chance of being ammo racked hull down compared to any NATO tank at the time.
@@OverG88 Not in the T-14; the crew is separated from the ammunition by 1 metre of armour while the crew of the Abrams is separated from the ammunition with 90mm.
So basically my takeaway is that the 152mm gun is better by just about every qualitative measure. But it is bigger, more expensive, would require a bigger turret, would leave less room for ammo, and the 125mm gun is good enough to deal with modern threats anyway.
@@Zichoe No, no. Russians guns have a wide arsenal of potatoes to fire. There's normal potatoes, APFSDS potatoes, HEAT potatoes, HE potatoes, and finally, the potato-juice Vodka nuke
"Germany is planning a 130mm canon on their new MBTs" You probably meant "Germany and France are planning to put 130mm rheinmetal or 140mm nexter cannon on their new MBT that they are producing in common" ?
I believe that NATO was working on a 140mm gun back in the 90’s , but the project was abandoned also because of logistical reasons. So they settled on the 120mm/L55 gun instead. Sounds familiar??
No. The 152mm "dart" is needed to deal with hard kill systems and future NATO ERA. You'll need these heavy 25 MJ projectiles - after 2030 or so. Furthemore, even a close by detonation (pre-detonation, APS) of 152mm HE shell is likely to knock out some of the exposed elements of the tank
Russia: Lets make a super awesome tank because we never make enough T-72's, T-80's and T-90's for our needs as it is, we will worry about production and testing costs later when oil returns to its peak value. We can see how that gamble didn't pan out well
See the only problems I'm seeing with t14 seems to be production and some sight issues. I think it's probably one of the best built tanks but the gun sights are giving me something to sorry about
I mean it supposedly reloads in about 10 seconds which is half as fast as most western tanks, its engine is a mess, the APS and EW parts seem to either be missing or not working and its big and tall, which combine together into a less than stellar image. Guess we will see though
But hey,if it's more powerful then it's still a lost, anyway I understand that(125 mm. is still powerful with right ammunitions),with the current state of Russia, it must take sometimes.
@@SK-ik9mc Isn't THAT bad... But Iranians are bigmouths, sure, less than the Turks, who get everything from West/South Korean/Ukrainian firms, they have the HARDEST sanctions, MUCH corruption, higher priority for other stuff = sabotage, cyber-warfare, drones, ballistic missiles ... "Karrar" = upgraded T-72S, which is the export variant of T-72B (1985). NOW, the upgraded T-72S variant (Karrar) has the ability to shoot ATGM through barrel (which could Russian T-72B directly from start of his production), better ERA, upgraded FCS, Sights etc. Yeah, NOTHING special. But you will see, Iranians will try to get license-production of T-90S and/or T-90MS ... when sanctions are lifted.
AMP-T?, a multi porpuse round for anti-infanty,helo and light vehicles?, or M829A4 with the same performance of A3 just better against relik ERA than K-5?, what new round did abrams get from T 14s supposed 152mm gun
Is it that hard to replace the turret on T-14 that will be able to fit 152mm? It's unmanned, so, theoretically, it should be a relatively easy replacement, since developers don't need to think how to fit crew and the gun in a turret. And turret ring is already quite big, so even carousel and auto-loader should not be a big problem.
As much as it pains me to admit it, tanks have limited time left. I feel too many things can take them out and eventually the military will turn their backs and focus on something else. Hopefully this is far in the future
I'm pretty sure that they can just produce the next series with a different turret... After all, the t14 chassis is made to be able to have the turret changed easily and cheaper than most tanks...
I wish you could make a video on how cannons improved since WWII. I still can´t wrap my head around how a cannon like in the Jagdtiger, or Maus fits in the tiny turret of a t64/t72... and what once were two-stage munitions can now be slammed into the breach as one piece with relative ease. From what I do understand, the propellant got far more aggressive (and the old barrels were already that thick to combat it back then and wore out fast!) and rounds other than APCBCHE are considerably lighter, though a HE, HEAT, or HESH can still go over the limit of manual loading. The second thing is, that the recoil of the old cannon would not have enough room in a modern turret, but the modern cannons have AFAIK still more energy. Now, a 125mm can be even mounted on a light tank, without causing it to roll over. Also, I don´t get where the giant recoil dampeners disappeared to. i can´t think of any place for them in a modern turret.
hm... 128_Pak_44 (maus+jagdtiger), length 7 meters , weight: a bit more than 10,160 kg (22,400 lb) fired a 28 kg anti tank projectile 125_mm 2A46 (T-90), length 6 meters, weight: 2,675 kg (4.409 lb) fires anti tank HEAT projectiles maximum of 20 kg new-ish russian 152_mm 2А83 (for future Armata), length 7 meters , weight: 5,000 kg , (no idea about what it fires)
Every time I hear someone mention the T-14 and a 152mm gun, I know its a War Thunder Ranger talking. I don't know how Armor attracted so many fan boys, but as a tanker I'm very tired of them and I wish they'd go away.
outgunned unicum it wont destroy the tank, but the tank will be knoch out of battle ( aka all the optic broke , gun damage , crew injured ) it just like ap mine , they don't design to kil , they just design to take our your leg and knoch you out of the battle
did you know that a t-14 aramatta has to be 1500 yards or closer to have the posibility of penetrating thr front side of the abrams.....and we have already developed a new apfsds kinetic penetrator called m829a4 that can penetrate the t-14 at distances of 3km or closer and under which means the t-14 as to be almost 1-2 km closer to even have the possibility of penetrating the abrams im completely confident in our abrams against a t-14
T-90M has the 2A82-1M Gun (production variant of 2A82 protype). the tanks that have 2A46-M5 is the export version T-90MS and the T-72B3s (T-72b3ob2016 has one with more electronics called 2A46M5-01 so maybe T-90MS has that same one)
Producing the new rounds for a bigger gun for a new tank is a USA sized money pit, especially when you're sitting on a huge cache of Soviet era ammunition.
Are there any plans to increasing the caliber of T-72/90 tanks? Can current autoloader accept any bigger caliber rounds? Seems like RUS tanks could use longer gun and maybe +10mm caliber increase.
Intersting fact i stumbeled upon is that some new technologies for the Armata family were initially developed in cooperation with Italien and French defense contractors until stopped by the sanctions after Russia occupied the Krim. It could, beside costs,be one reason the project began to struggle after 2015.
Wow a fan boy epic! The main reason the 152mm is not being used is that it offers no significant improvement over the 125mm with modern munitions, when it was first developed it did but ammunition caught up. And what use is a 20km range ATGM ? Besides which the final iteration of the T 14 is not yet set as its not in production and only undergoing trials .
The US made M60A2 mounted a 152mm gun/missile launcher and several practical considerations arose. Size of rounds made them difficult to maneuver inside the vehicle and made reloading a time consuming event. Much larger rounds meant less rounds carried compared to the 105mm armed M60A1 and A3 variants. Reminder that American tanks have always been larger than their Soviet counterparts and are roomier. The M60A2 had a completely different turret. The closet Soviet equivalent would be the the KV-2. Both vehicles were judged to be no better than normal tanks and their service lives were rather short.
T-14 was always going to fielded with a 125mm gun. The talk about a 152mm was always a future upgrade if and when required since the 125mm gun is capable of defeating all current opposing designs. T-14 is definitely a real tank and the Ruskies will introduce serial production, but only when they think the the design is ready, bugs shaken out, and all state testing has been passed. Until then they will quite sensibly spend cash on upgrading their T-90As to T-90M standard, and their huge fleet of T-72s to T-72B3 & B3M. Heck, even the much-maligned turbine-powered T-80s will be upgraded and used for arctic operations (where their turbine allows them to get underway in cold weather far quicker than diesel engines). Russians traditionally build their tanks differently to us. They emphasize cold weather performance and ability to service in the field by poorly-trained conscripts. They are changing into a more technological military but their operational philosophic differences still remain. The Ruskie military doesn't accept equipment unless it performs to spec. There will be no F-35 or USS Ford debacles with this lot, no accepting equipment for service that has a defect list a mile long. State owned weapons manufacturers exist to make the equipment that the Ruskie armed forces wants and needs. Their operating profit isn't a concern. If their MIC wants to make money, they need to export orders to foreign countries (and even then they are expected to spend the profits to subsidize their delivery of domestic orders). Compare this against our privately-owned for-profit MIC that makes BILLIONS from the tax-payers pocket delivering under-performing bug-ridden junk that takes years to fix on the publics dime, while their profits get recycled into the pockets of bent politicians and lobbyists who pester our elected reps in the pursuit of more war (so that existing weapon stocks can be depleted and more P/Os issued for new ordnance) and who prop up Ruskie/ChiCom strawmen to get the gov to spend more taxpayer cash on new weapon development, all in teh name of "defense".
Make 3 variants of Armada T-14 tanks depending upon the size of its armour shield and the main gun turret size. Make a tank brigade to combine any of these three variants depending upon the situation. Nothing is permanent in nature however you can set a default parameter until some one want different combination of its variants. 50% light (existing tank with 120 mm gun turret) , 25% will be more heavier as medium tank version fitter with 130 mm gun turret and the rest 25% heavy tank will be fitted with long range heavy duty 155 mm guns. Thus it gets the perfect combinations of speed, agility, power and range to overcome any situation.
I wonder why the Russians didn't put a 130mm Cannon on the T14 that would have allowed the Russian Army and Navy to share ammo costs (the 130mm is in use on some Russian ships)?
At 6:05byou are saying that the reason why armata has 125 mm instead of 152 mm is that Russia wouldn't need to produce 152 mm ammo. But Russia already has thousands 152mm artillery systems (for example, "Rapira") that use apfsds, heat or he of that caliber.
You have done Aramata turret protection concept before but remind me, what is the benefit of an MBT that can be wreaked by an auto cannon? Just asking, angry fan boys need not reply
It cant really get wreacked by autocannons more than other Tanks. The Crew is very safe, the rest is armoured enough. By not armouring everything to withstand 120mm apdsfs you can save a lot of weight and cost. Also the turret is a small Target that will likely not get hit often, so s lot of armour is unnecessarry especially since theres no Crew in it
Why was there a cold war rush for guns bigger than 120mm or 125mm? were they seriously gonna pump out new tanks with 140mm and 152mm guns on the assumption that armor technology would render the older guns ineffective?
There are a lot of people who are clueless down below. While 152 mm caliber has a lot of flaws, it is essential upgrade in order to gain firepower superiority in a field. Armor is yet again catching up and estimated armor values of most tanks are bit higher than what our guns can penetrate. In order to get a chance of defeating modern armor, we need impractically long and extremely expensive rounds. This trend will only continue with time if we do not develop better guns. Our 120-125 mm calibers had evolved from medium barreled L/44 versions to L/60'ish range. We are yet again are approaching German WW2 school of thought where weapons were upwards to L/70 long and that wasn't even a ceiling. Making guns so long have issues on its own, like being impractical in urban fighting or delivering soft target performance. Yet, every time when we needed more firepower we always ultimately went for bigger calibers. It is only the matter of time when Nato is going to introduce 130 mm caliber and thus Russia will have to upgrade too despite its financial considerations and 152 mm is the only available gun in which a lot of money is already sunk in. Greater caliber is inevitable and I would say that T-14 should had come with it by default. It is next generation tank, it is not supposed to fight or to replace T-90 series or older. I'm also disappointed by false reporting of Russian defense ministry, claiming that tank can be upgraded with 152 mm while in reality it cannot and vehicle needs to be redeveloped which in my eyes is short sighted and just negligent.
And also the russian apfsds does have a higher initial muzzle velocity but the round isnt as heavy which means its penetrating ability falls offf much faster past 50 yards giving the abrams an overwhelming penetrating ability at ong range thanks to its longer/heavier rod
That´s not how physics or balistics works. The slower the intitial velocity the shorter would be the distance it can travel before hitting the ground. So the abrams apfsds rounds wont be able to shoot at distance effectively. Now something about the penetration ablility, the main factor for the penetration capabilities, is the kinetic energy of a round (simple physics): E(kin)=1/2 x m x v^2 That the formula for it. The slow down which the rounds suffer both (125mm and 120mm) is nearly the same. So where as the 120mm abrams round gets its higher kinetic energy by higher mass it losses initial velocity and where the 125mm russian round is lighter makes it able to gain a higher initial velocity. So their penetration ability is what concerns kinetic energy the same but not their effective firing range. The rest of their penetration ability is determined by the materials used and those hardness. P.S. The Abrams is basically filled with depleted uranium (aswell in the armor also in the rounds) which is less radioactive than regular activated uranium but still makes it a potiential cancer bunker
Pretty much every current smooth bore tank gun is potentially obsolete. BAE's Cased Telescoped Round will be up-gunning the 40mm cannon on the warrior to a weapon able to penetrate 140mm with it's AP round, shoot down helicopters with a distance programmable/fused air burst round or a concrete busting (210mm) proximity HiEx... What has this got to do with tank guns, well if BAE can go down to a NEW 6.5mm for US rifles why can't they go up to 105mm/155mm for navel and 120mm for MBT's. More deadly, smart, simpler loading systems and overall a smaller round that is easier to store. CTR could potentially give the Challenger 3 the equivalent hitting power of a 9" Navel Gun. I did put 19" but that was a typo, as I was thinking the WW2 BL IX 9.2" sorry if i misled.
@@mcnuffin1208 Almost twice the kinetic hitting power of a standard round. A 40mm AP round able to pen 140mm of Rolled steel ...figures published by BAE. 120mm x 2 kinetic damage is say 220mm Pen. So a 9" Mk9 Navel Gun. Not sure whay I put 19 when I was thinking of the BL Mk9. But hopefully you can see the math.
well... the 105 was a rifled gun whilr the120 was smooth.... thats like srs worldly difference... it should have been done in the 60s ( like the soviets did , or an other way to say it is that the soviets where 20 years ahead ;) / comparativly the 152 mm gun dosent offer to big of an advantage ( the biggest one would be that it would match the caliber of ATGM 9M133 . )
Russian gun design is symptomatic of Russian tank force doctrinal problems. They design throwaway, low quality, subsystems and then expect to sustain quality of force improvements to parity level tank capabilities across a much larger /capacity/ fleet. Only to discover they have to continually reinvest in new micro-improvements to keep up and thus have major problems leveling the fleet capability standards as a whole. This is made worse by the absence of high technical quality, regional level, service depots able to undertake major updates (all upgrades have to be done at the single OEM which leads to line complications) and relatively large variety of vehicles and subvariants, all with non standardized systems. For a tank main tube, it is the total interval between barrel changes firing effective full charge rounds that counts. When a western barrel can go 1,500 rounds and a Russian one 300-500, there is a massive technology difference. And this translates to (initial) accuracy as well. FTA units firing 125mm 2A46 series guns from brand new, captured, vehicles found an average .4 milliradian error in the gun which simply could not be zeroed out due to the floppiness of long barrel weapons, made from very thin, steel. A late-life barrel (and Russians still use barrels for hundreds of rounds after they should be condemned) is going to be .9 mils or more. When a ~5,000lb gun can be installed on a 40 ton tank ONLY because of limited gun elevation on the compressed trunnions, you have a problem because limitations in elevation compensation for heat induced droop and by-age/accident warping mean HEAT becomes unusable beyond about 2,800m and APFSDS beyond 2,000m. Because the dart is much more picky about where it hits to achieve useful pen at a given deflection, your nominal aimpoint control as gunner training standard has to be much tighter. Which is why Russian ballistic rounds are augmented by ATGM on Soviet legacy tanks. But missiles are so expensive that you might as well not be using a gun and shifting to much faster and/or multishot guidance capable rounds from a dedicated, hyper velocity, missile based, tank destroyer. Since such a vehicle could theoretically destroy 4 enemy vehicles in a single salvo and thus only needs to carry 8-12 rounds onboard to have justified it's cost per kill. Think of a 'super Javelin carrier' which LOAL killed enemy armor by firing 1 shot every .5 seconds using an elevated MMW radar to assign multiple missiles to multiple vehicles out to 10km.
M865 TPCSDS-T training rounds use simple steel rather than DU and thus are much lower weight projectiles and so are able to achieve similar accuracy (.5 mil) to M829 with non-EFC rounds, albeit over typically shorter (gunnery range as much as MV) distances. Yet even a .5 mil gun leads to a circular error probable almost a meter across at 1,000m down range (19 inches from the center of aimpoint) and up to 6 feet across at 4,000m. An Abrams can handle this because it's almost a meter taller and has much higher barrel elevation range to compensate for late life barrel droop. And yet we don't. The M256 (Abrams 120mm gun) only achieves a .25 mil accuracy over about the first quarter of its EFC life. Any armor unit going to war with more than a couple hundred rounds through the barrel is going to be rebarreled before deployment. If you are going to achieve dominant LERs in a conventional tank, using conventional (unguided) rounds, you need to both massively increase the effective .8SSPK firing range, getting kills out to 8km with .85SSPH hit rates. Or/and greatly increase the firing -rate- and protection/mobility levels so that you can close to shorter engagement distances and accept lower kills per hit and less accuracy but still achieve more aimed shots. Within the latter case, you also have to control for costs so that you can accept various numeric stacking modifiers (how many tanks are on the battlefield vs. how many can actually shoot at a valid, discrete, target in a given choke or ambush condition) by upping the number of tanks in your own brigade or regimental units. Russia has neither improved the firing rate nor the fire control/accuracy of her tanks, over range, and thus is falling further and further behind the technology race by emphasizing only the protection factor of her vehicles which increases costs while retaining the inadequacies of going with a 40 ton LC tank. No Western tank designer would accept single-shot ERA+Passive armor survivability because he would know that either shifting to greater accuracy would allow the tank defenses to be picked apart from greater range than he could shoot back. Or shifting aimpoints (STAFF was a smart fused EFP that enabled top attack, it is likely that AMP will be too) to an undefended sector would lead to complete bypass of the defended frontal arc. The U.S. in fact does both. With M829A4 and 3rd Generation Thermal Sights plus a new gunnery control system which is going to turn APFSDS into a plunging fire system, over a datalink. Historically, when armor really ties into it, the number of shots exchanged is enormous. Easily 4-5 shots per tank involved in the fight. By itself, this makes the mixed reactive/passive defense problem untenable, even before you factor in the APS in the primary (subsonic ATGW/ATR) defense mode for which ERA was first invented. APS is cheaper, it is reloadable, it covers more sectors, more quickly. It can handle top attack and diver profiles up to about 1,200m/sec. Russia needed to go all out and up their game within an affordable 250 tank force structure that could act as a spearhead capability, able to completely thrash the threat in all areas of the Iron Triangle while reserving more modest upgrades to an 'older' (T-90M) fleet as a standardization effort across the existing tank force (500 more) for the secondary missions of infantry support and maneuver escort. If nothing else, this would have vastly improved their logistics carry on a trucks per tank basis. Gradually backfilling and changing out the inventory as war threat demanded or economic GDP improvement allowed. If you have nukes and believe in their use, as the ultimate strategic guarantor of territorial sovereignty; you have time to do a major technology refresh on your armor force. Instead, Russia tried to retain capacity while remaining dwarf tank attached to limited capability upgrades. And the results are being made clear, in Ukraine.
Ukraine basically has the same issues russia does with their equipment, only Ukraine has western backing and training, while Russia has their usual tactical doctrine that is easily exploitable in modern combat
Does the T-14 need to elevate it‘s gun like Leopard 2 or Challenger 2? I ask because I’ve saw an animated video of the Autoloader of t-14 and it looks like it hast to...
Problem with 152 other then logistics is ammo storage - tanks are not made of rubber - you cannot have unlimited storage. Hence why Germany is thinking of say 140mm gun not NATO 155mm. I am sure there is work on eventually going to 152mm for the Russians, but when there is no pressing need for the next decade+ why be at the front & bear all the costs up front. Leopard III sporting 140mm is at least 2 decades away from operational duty.
@@utaMAN12345 Well considering on paper they cost less than an M1A2 to build (a chassis in use for 30 years), and the entire country can somehow only afford 10 of them....that can barely make it through a parade without breaking down, I'd say they're less real than the russian government would like you to believe.
@@utaMAN12345 Yes, you understand that the city they're producing them in has a greater than 4 million population, right? People besides vatniks live there, a shocker, I know.
Beyond 135mm I think the barrel size becomes counterproductive as in it's too heavy, unweildy and slow. Also it's a step back in MBT's trying to fit urban fighting warzones rather than open fields. For NATO I would say a 126mm should be it's next progression. No need one up the Russian calibres by that big of a margin; bigger guns are about over the horizon capacity so instead improve the netcentric fighting aspects that improves that capacity first and upgrade the guns to match that distance capability to project kinetic force. Maybe that is what they're doing with 130mm; current NATO tanks have about 5km to 12km of over the horizon awareness; having a gun that can cover that range is crucial.
The turret are un-armored, so a hit there are a misson kill, a hit in the front hull will probebly give shock damage to the fancy electronic and do a misson kill. A side/rear hit and somthing important will break, like the crew or the engine (asuming the hits are solid hits and not a glancing blow or strange angel) But all this is only speculation becuse nobady here know how good or bad the 130mm cannon/projectile are or how good or bad the composit armor of the T-14 are.
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RedEffect discord server plz?
Just a note, is your statement that older ammunition will perform better from the newer and longer gun in T-14 a fact or assumption? Because older munition was designed with the older gun in mind, so it was designed to be aerodynamically efficient and accurate at certain muzzle velocities, but if you change the muzzle speed of APFSDS projectile, results may not be higher penetration but lower accuracy due to higher drag as shock cone from supersonic speed will form differently at different speeds, this is the same as if you expect that jetliner will fly beyond speed of sound just because you give it more powerful engine, you cannot expect a better performance of ammunition just because you shoot it from a longer gun and this is also because of the propellant...
As the propellant in ammunition was designed to push for a certain length of a barrel, it may not even have properties to bring higher velocities through a longer barrel for which such munition propellant was not designed in a first place (it would be wasteful to introduce more propellant or higher pressures than current barrels length can utilize just because in future they may be longer). So, while the longer barrel is often associated with the longer range in generally lower-pressure artillery pieces, it is not an assured for much faster hypervelocity tank rounds launched from high-pressure barrels, generally you can expect the same performance, at worst even reduction in accuracy...
i register i play, it fun, thank redeffect
I’m sorry for not asking this Earlier, but what music do you use for the Sponser Part from the Beginining of the Video and before talking about the topic of the video?
I mean america has been working on a higher caliber mbt since the 80s with the M1 Thumper
We were this close to greatness
*The KV-2-2*
Tbh... I think that if the t14 gets mass-produced ,we will see Russians start producing the chassis with the 152mm turret, as soon as newer American and German tanks start coming out... Since the armata chassis is designed to be able to have the turret and armour changed very easily and cheaper than one would expect.
@@arvedludwig3584 they have said they are working on a new tank and it will be released 2025 if I remember correctly and why don't they need an L55? all it gives is improvments
@@arvedludwig3584 Did the US refuse to use the L55?. When and why did they do this
Strawberry Bleach the extra velocity gained by the L55 would be detrimental to the penetration of the APFSDS used by the US. Atleast again heavy ERA. This is because of how the APFSDS is designed to defeat this ERA. The m829A3 has a steel tip that is made to be broken off by the ERA. In order to do this it has to be long enough to keep the ERA flyer plate from hitting the DU rod behind it. however the longer you make to steel tip, the shorter the DU penetrator will be. so the US calculated the perfect length needed for the steel tip using the velocity of the projectile and the specifications of the ERA it’s meant to go against. If the speed of the projectile is increased, more if the penetrator will be fed into the path of the ERA flyer plate. Which will result in the DU penetrator being impacted by it, which will decrease its penetration.
There are theories that the new m829a4 projectile found a way around this problem by using a datalink to separate the steel tip from the DU penetrator a certain distance in front of the target. Causing the steel tip to fly ahead and initiate ERA before the DU penetrator reaches the target. Thus allowing higher velocities
@@arvedludwig3584 maybe they are more focused on navy and air, but the 120mm will struggle against the Armata, so they might have to get a 125,130,or 135 going, or something
But you never mentioned the durability and the amount of shots 152mm could do comparing to 125, cos if o remember correctly its about half. And those brought the cost per shot issue with the more expensive maintenance of 152 and higher frequency of the maintenance itself... not mentioning the logistics and mass production of new ammo.
So it sounds like not very reasonable thing to do.
He did mention having to develop new ammo. It might not be the time for the 152mm but bigger guns are inevitable.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 you should check how does comma works.. "But you never mentioned the durability and the amount of shots 152mm could do comparing to 125" that was finished part of the sentence, next was explanation.
He did mentioned that 152 mm gun barrel can sustain a lot higher pressures meaning that it is more durable than 125 mm barrel.
@@REgamesplayer no it just means it can use harder ammunition
125 is more or less reasonable, you want to avoid bigger ammunition, as speed is easier to increase than weight.
Gaijin: How many ads you want? How many?
RedEffect: Yes. I will take your entire stock!
Ah yes
A man of culture
nah, let the man make money, he makes good videos, you can skip if you don't like the ads like everyone.
@@aksmex2576 no.
@@aksmex2576 agreed
war thunder is great tho... crossout too much better than wargaming imo
Look how they have massacred my boy...
Still a great tank to have in 1914
There should be a time-travel movie or novel in which Modern Russia sends back T-14s, AK- 12s Su-35s and RPG-32s to WW1 Russia!
Imagine the faces of Germans and Austrian-Hungarians when they see the Russians with advanced military equipment
WW1 is over in a month and the Armenian Genocide is averted. There is no Russian Civil War or Stalin Soviet Union
Give Germany Leopard 2A7s and HK416s too then.
our boy
@@christiandauz3742 Conrad Von Hoetzendorf would learn about the Russian magic weapons and still think it's a great idea to throw all his men into an offensive. The Germans are another story though, expect to get reverse engineered.
@@christiandauz3742 There'sactually already a movie like that, bro 😅
It's called _The Final Countdown_ , and it's about a "modern" [1980's] U.S. aircraft carrier that gets sent back in time to 1941.
Red Effect: "M14 Armata Canon might become obsolete"
ARJUNK MBT: *Sweats profoundly*
That tanks Gun despite being a 120mm has performance of a less than 105mm
@@ChandranPrema123 source
Last time I was this early Russia was going to buy hundreds of T-14's by 2019
haha OPEC go BRRRRR
They need money,they must fix their economy first,in order to get more funds.
*insert angry russia fanboi ReeeeeeEEEEEE
@@whiskeyactual. Dont take news outlets with no source as relevant and you wont think that.
@Bleagle but it still take time(it also depends on the situation that Russia faces) and the Russians might need to make some adjustments to improve to design,maybe give it back up gunner's sight (I've heard that it's not on the tank),but the design's very good indeed,(anyway is that true that they've considered putting 152mm. on this thing, wouldn't it take more money and resources to develop Ammunitions for the new gun?)
I hope they'd somehow fix their economy to make the development smoother and faster.
Arjun tank gun is actually an orbital death laser designed to destroy planets(better than t 14)
Planets? U mean galaxies right?
💩 🤣😅😆
@@dholdiperthemvp1839 shhh it's classified......
What type of problem you people have with Arjun
@@defenceosprey983 we don't have any problems ,Arjun has a lot of problems
You should make a video about hard kill APS or maybe discuss instances of tanks in combat like in Ukraine or the Yom Kippur War or something
+1 to this. Turkey also suffered a lot from not having APS in syria.
Ruskies got their arses handled in Ukraine
@@M8143K no they did not
@@M8143K that is why they have Crimea and Donetsk and Lughansk are autonomous?
Flute Jaeger Doesn't seem to be so
Every Tank To Red Effect will say that he is our best friend because a true friend always shows defects to get safe.
He knows tank technology more than Alpha defense
@@normalsabatonfan3077 Primo Victoria, dunundudndudndu
He's still insanely baised
@@normalsabatonfan3077 bro curiosity makes these guy perfect one
@@DefinitelyNotAnAddict elaborate please oh wise guy
Maybe its gonna find it if it searches long enough
A for effort
Hahahahahahhahah, good one
The sacred 152mm...
First we have the M10 howizer, then we have ML20, then we have BL10, then we have M64, and now we have 2A83..
The 152mm legend shall live forever
The Russia empire with the 400mm cannon :3
The sovirt union death star: *AMATURS AMATURS AMATURS*
@AKUJIRULE Russia: deploys t14 with 152 mm gun
Germany:allow me to introduce ze sturmleopard
2A83 is more of a wonder weapon more than anything, as it would be simply miles ahead of any tank guns. Hope to see Russians pick up on that with their upgraded T14. Because we all know the KV-2 caliber is best caliber.
Ah yes, because no one thought of doing this ever. There are no artillery systems with such calibers that showcase the problems with very large guns that need to be overcome to have an effective direct fire weapon capable of withstanding repeated shots without extensive maintenance. Something especially Russia is well known for.
“Put bigger gun on it” isn’t new. Russia used to have artillery sized guns on some of its cold war tanks and there’s reasons why they moved away from those. Its the same reasons that the West gradually increases its sizes (same as Russia). Incremental improvements let them increase it more effectively than just slapping artillery guns on a tank.
@@TheDemigans No need to get mad, dude. Russian tanks are a) known for their reliability & easy maintenance and b) they already tested the gun on Object 292 where they reported that the recoil was barely any different to the original 125mm gun, surprising everyone. The maintenance issues that you speak of are simply non-existent.
Putting bigger on it may not be new, but it is certainly an advantage. The kinetic energy increase and higher weight of APFSDS projectiles will increase armour penetration exponentially.
@@Firespectrum122 I’m not mad. Why would I be mad?
And that recoil story is a fabrication. The length of the shells is easily between 20 to 33% difference already for many shells so that is already the extra mass you have to deal with and even if you assume similar length the increase in diameter is also a 35% increase in mass. That mass adds recoil even if you use the same amount of propellant.
This is physics (tm). Not “write whatever you damn well please” (tm).
Also those maintenance issues don’t just go away. You say the Russian tanks are easy to maintain but that does not mean that slapping a high-maintenance diameter gun will instantly make it go “oh this is a Russian tank I’ll reduce the amount of maintenance I need”. Also you seem to be missing a rather important distinction, “easy to maintain” just means you need less advanced degrees to work on a tank, it does not mean you need LESS maintenance. And despite this rugged reputation the Russians have attempted to build up we know from people who use Russian tanks (like Ukraine, east Germany post cold war, all the countries who buy and use Russian tanks) that these tanks do need a lot of maintenance ESPECIALLY because they are simple. Just because its comparatively easy to maintain does not mean it needs little to no maintenance.
Exactly, a tank is a tank. And a tank is fundementally complex!@@TheDemigans
There are two things I watch these videos for. Firstly is the awesome information on tanks. The second is because I can't get that damn song you keep using out of my head.
Yeah 150mm gun is just for scare. Because bigger calibers come with a serious disadvantage. Less ammunition on board!
That is why intelligent tank producers only go for a bigger round when it is absolutely necessary and with a smaller round the opponent can't be defeated!
"the vehicles go from 1930s to 1990s"
Khrizantema S: ok boomer
Many older russian tanks use the old soviet carousel which provides room only for shorter rounds. This affects sabot effectiveness when penetrating armor. The newer versions use bigger carousel that enables longer shells, thus providing better penetration.
Carousel design is terrible in general. Crew is basically sitting on a powder keg.
@@OverG88 It wasn't terrible for the time when top attack munitions were a thing. They had less chance of being ammo racked hull down compared to any NATO tank at the time.
@@OverG88
Not in the T-14; the crew is separated from the ammunition by 1 metre of armour while the crew of the Abrams is separated from the ammunition with 90mm.
Hey, it's sponsored by War Thunder ! Who would've guessed?
@@kms_scharnhorst Let it out man,let it all out!
@@snakebite3232 the pain man...
So basically my takeaway is that the 152mm gun is better by just about every qualitative measure. But it is bigger, more expensive, would require a bigger turret, would leave less room for ammo, and the 125mm gun is good enough to deal with modern threats anyway.
7:11 - turn on automatic english subtitles
What do you mean? Don't all Russian tanks fire potatoes?
Ahahahah
@@arcturus4762 it's not ordinary potatoes, it's armor piercing fin stabilized discarding sabot potatoes
@@Zichoe No, no. Russians guns have a wide arsenal of potatoes to fire. There's normal potatoes, APFSDS potatoes, HEAT potatoes, HE potatoes, and finally, the potato-juice Vodka nuke
Potatoes
When you gonna make the puma video
Pew Pew Pewma
"Germany is planning a 130mm canon on their new MBTs"
You probably meant "Germany and France are planning to put 130mm rheinmetal or 140mm nexter cannon on their new MBT that they are producing in common" ?
I believe that NATO was working on a 140mm gun back in the 90’s , but the project was abandoned also because of logistical reasons. So they settled on the 120mm/L55 gun instead. Sounds familiar??
No. The 152mm "dart" is needed to deal with hard kill systems and future NATO ERA. You'll need these heavy 25 MJ projectiles - after 2030 or so.
Furthemore, even a close by detonation (pre-detonation, APS) of 152mm HE shell is likely to knock out some of the exposed elements of the tank
Another great video, thanks for the information
Russia: Lets make a super awesome tank because we never make enough T-72's, T-80's and T-90's for our needs as it is, we will worry about production and testing costs later when oil returns to its peak value.
We can see how that gamble didn't pan out well
3:35 There's a little mistake, I guess. It's written "Обькет", but it's supposed to be "Объект"(Literally "Object" in Russian).
See the only problems I'm seeing with t14 seems to be production and some sight issues. I think it's probably one of the best built tanks but the gun sights are giving me something to sorry about
I mean it supposedly reloads in about 10 seconds which is half as fast as most western tanks, its engine is a mess, the APS and EW parts seem to either be missing or not working and its big and tall, which combine together into a less than stellar image. Guess we will see though
152mm gun, for when even if you DONT penetrate, you still kill the tank.
Add barrel length to 2a46 series is the most logical upgrade, just like l44 to l55
Only adding barrel length will slow down the projectile....
@@Triggernlfrl did it slow down?
I mean. Its current armament is still one of the most poweful of all mbts
definitely but I'd still rather have a tank thats better in both guns and armor then just one
But hey,if it's more powerful then it's still a lost, anyway I understand that(125 mm. is still powerful with right ammunitions),with the current state of Russia, it must take sometimes.
Can’t beat the 120mm l/55
Too bad T-14 isnt even in service and likely wont be for years to come.
@JOHN GAGE Doubt on the protection
review the Iranian Karrar tank
Ah yes, The glorious Karrar carboard crap collector
Bruh Moment looool
@@SK-ik9mc
Isn't THAT bad... But Iranians are bigmouths, sure, less than the Turks, who get everything from West/South Korean/Ukrainian firms, they have the HARDEST sanctions, MUCH corruption, higher priority for other stuff = sabotage, cyber-warfare, drones, ballistic missiles ...
"Karrar" = upgraded T-72S, which is the export variant of T-72B (1985).
NOW, the upgraded T-72S variant (Karrar) has the ability to shoot ATGM through barrel (which could Russian T-72B directly from start of his production), better ERA, upgraded FCS, Sights etc.
Yeah, NOTHING special.
But you will see, Iranians will try to get license-production of T-90S and/or T-90MS ... when sanctions are lifted.
He already reviewed the T72 I believe.
Been asking for him to review Iranian tanks, or Karrar at least. Perhaps he need some “financial persuasion”
Ah the T14. The tank that gave the Abrams a new type of shell to shoot
AMP-T?, a multi porpuse round for anti-infanty,helo and light vehicles?, or M829A4 with the same performance of A3 just better against relik ERA than K-5?, what new round did abrams get from T 14s supposed 152mm gun
Like the T64 we can guess that an Armata Light (or low cost) will appear one day.
I'm gonna cry :(
Is it that hard to replace the turret on T-14 that will be able to fit 152mm? It's unmanned, so, theoretically, it should be a relatively easy replacement, since developers don't need to think how to fit crew and the gun in a turret. And turret ring is already quite big, so even carousel and auto-loader should not be a big problem.
The T14 is build around the idea of a platform and modularity. its way easier then "regular" tank
Excellent video informative concise and comprehensive.
As much as it pains me to admit it, tanks have limited time left. I feel too many things can take them out and eventually the military will turn their backs and focus on something else. Hopefully this is far in the future
everything has too many tings that can take them out. nothing is invincible.
Correct. Ammo is insanely efficient nowdays. Javellin, Kornet, drones... Absolutely lethal to tanks.
I might be wrong, but how on earth can you loose, what you never had?
I'm pretty sure that they can just produce the next series with a different turret... After all, the t14 chassis is made to be able to have the turret changed easily and cheaper than most tanks...
I wish you could make a video on how cannons improved since WWII. I still can´t wrap my head around how a cannon like in the Jagdtiger, or Maus fits in the tiny turret of a t64/t72... and what once were two-stage munitions can now be slammed into the breach as one piece with relative ease.
From what I do understand, the propellant got far more aggressive (and the old barrels were already that thick to combat it back then and wore out fast!) and rounds other than APCBCHE are considerably lighter, though a HE, HEAT, or HESH can still go over the limit of manual loading.
The second thing is, that the recoil of the old cannon would not have enough room in a modern turret, but the modern cannons have AFAIK still more energy. Now, a 125mm can be even mounted on a light tank, without causing it to roll over. Also, I don´t get where the giant recoil dampeners disappeared to. i can´t think of any place for them in a modern turret.
hm...
128_Pak_44 (maus+jagdtiger),
length 7 meters ,
weight: a bit more than 10,160 kg (22,400 lb)
fired a 28 kg anti tank projectile
125_mm 2A46 (T-90),
length 6 meters,
weight: 2,675 kg (4.409 lb)
fires anti tank HEAT projectiles maximum of 20 kg
new-ish russian 152_mm 2А83 (for future Armata),
length 7 meters ,
weight: 5,000 kg , (no idea about what it fires)
Every time I hear someone mention the T-14 and a 152mm gun, I know its a War Thunder Ranger talking.
I don't know how Armor attracted so many fan boys, but as a tanker I'm very tired of them and I wish they'd go away.
The 152 HE would be the standard anti tank round APFSDS would be for taking down continents
Real life isn't War Thunder.
outgunned unicum it wont destroy the tank, but the tank will be knoch out of battle ( aka all the optic broke , gun damage , crew injured ) it just like ap mine , they don't design to kil , they just design to take our your leg and knoch you out of the battle
@@TheNicestPig yeah in real life you don't just shrug off a howitzer shell like it's no biggie
@@smeminem1258 You don't get hits with them either.
It is difficult to get an HE shell anywhere over 1km accurately even with Fire Control Computers.
Spall liners missing is the reason russian he is in any way effective against any armoured target
did you know that a t-14 aramatta has to be 1500 yards or closer to have the posibility of penetrating thr front side of the abrams.....and we have already developed a new apfsds kinetic penetrator called m829a4 that can penetrate the t-14 at distances of 3km or closer and under which means the t-14 as to be almost 1-2 km closer to even have the possibility of penetrating the abrams im completely confident in our abrams against a t-14
what it needs is the 152mm M-69 cannon. 9 meters of pure madness.
Holy shit T-90M looks badass with those chainmail
Why this channel don't reviews APCs and IFV????
If the T-14 Armata had 152, i would have fell in love with it
T-90M has the 2A82-1M Gun (production variant of 2A82 protype). the tanks that have 2A46-M5 is the export version T-90MS and the T-72B3s (T-72b3ob2016 has one with more electronics called 2A46M5-01 so maybe T-90MS has that same one)
I was wondering how long it would take for everyone to get back to the same bore sizes as what it was in WW2.
76mm?
@@paogene1288 Ever hear of the SU-152? The Soviets were going much bigger than everyone else.
Bruh imagine if Italy brings back tankets .
Producing the new rounds for a bigger gun for a new tank is a USA sized money pit, especially when you're sitting on a huge cache of Soviet era ammunition.
Are there any plans to increasing the caliber of T-72/90 tanks?
Can current autoloader accept any bigger caliber rounds? Seems like RUS tanks could use longer gun and maybe +10mm caliber increase.
Intersting fact i stumbeled upon is that some new technologies for the Armata family were initially developed in cooperation with Italien and French defense contractors until stopped by the sanctions after Russia occupied the Krim. It could, beside costs,be one reason the project began to struggle after 2015.
Wow a fan boy epic! The main reason the 152mm is not being used is that it offers no significant improvement over the 125mm with modern munitions, when it was first developed it did but ammunition caught up. And what use is a 20km range ATGM ? Besides which the final iteration of the T 14 is not yet set as its not in production and only undergoing trials .
The US made M60A2 mounted a 152mm gun/missile launcher and several practical considerations arose. Size of rounds made them difficult to maneuver inside the vehicle and made reloading a time consuming event. Much larger rounds meant less rounds carried compared to the 105mm armed M60A1 and A3 variants. Reminder that American tanks have always been larger than their Soviet counterparts and are roomier. The M60A2 had a completely different turret. The closet Soviet equivalent would be the the KV-2. Both vehicles were judged to be no better than normal tanks and their service lives were rather short.
T-14 was always going to fielded with a 125mm gun. The talk about a 152mm was always a future upgrade if and when required since the 125mm gun is capable of defeating all current opposing designs.
T-14 is definitely a real tank and the Ruskies will introduce serial production, but only when they think the the design is ready, bugs shaken out, and all state testing has been passed. Until then they will quite sensibly spend cash on upgrading their T-90As to T-90M standard, and their huge fleet of T-72s to T-72B3 & B3M. Heck, even the much-maligned turbine-powered T-80s will be upgraded and used for arctic operations (where their turbine allows them to get underway in cold weather far quicker than diesel engines).
Russians traditionally build their tanks differently to us. They emphasize cold weather performance and ability to service in the field by poorly-trained conscripts. They are changing into a more technological military but their operational philosophic differences still remain. The Ruskie military doesn't accept equipment unless it performs to spec. There will be no F-35 or USS Ford debacles with this lot, no accepting equipment for service that has a defect list a mile long. State owned weapons manufacturers exist to make the equipment that the Ruskie armed forces wants and needs. Their operating profit isn't a concern. If their MIC wants to make money, they need to export orders to foreign countries (and even then they are expected to spend the profits to subsidize their delivery of domestic orders).
Compare this against our privately-owned for-profit MIC that makes BILLIONS from the tax-payers pocket delivering under-performing bug-ridden junk that takes years to fix on the publics dime, while their profits get recycled into the pockets of bent politicians and lobbyists who pester our elected reps in the pursuit of more war (so that existing weapon stocks can be depleted and more P/Os issued for new ordnance) and who prop up Ruskie/ChiCom strawmen to get the gov to spend more taxpayer cash on new weapon development, all in teh name of "defense".
don't lose hope, russian enginier could pass immediaty to the next step by installing a railgun on the armata chassis.
I believe that the gun you show at 8:00 is a 140mm gun not a 130mm
Make 3 variants of Armada T-14 tanks depending upon the size of its armour shield and the main gun turret size. Make a tank brigade to combine any of these three variants depending upon the situation. Nothing is permanent in nature however you can set a default parameter until some one want different combination of its variants. 50% light (existing tank with 120 mm gun turret) , 25% will be more heavier as medium tank version fitter with 130 mm gun turret and the rest 25% heavy tank will be fitted with long range heavy duty 155 mm guns. Thus it gets the perfect combinations of speed, agility, power and range to overcome any situation.
3:44 what this shell suppose to do in a class room ?
AIFAHRA HORGGHRO probably put in his kid’s school bag a +1 shell cause Russian carousel do not carry enough and
First time I see T-14's gun stabilized footage
the news said they delay the 152 mm gun installation because too many 125 mm shell in stock and as well as the produciton lines
Make a vid on the Romanian TR-85. I'm interested to see just how bad it is.
its a essentially a T-55 with a leopard 1 engine, what do you think?
I would love to see a Armata with 152mm Gun.
I don't think they can just keep slapping bigger and bigger caliber guns on tanks, do that and all that stockpile ammo is trash.
They aught to use it in lesser numbers as like a tank killer version
Big gun go boom
@@nightofthunder5509 you mean "tank destroyer"?
I wonder why the Russians didn't put a 130mm Cannon on the T14 that would have allowed the Russian Army and Navy to share ammo costs (the 130mm is in use on some Russian ships)?
Ship ammunition and tank ammunition is different
140mm is enough maybe even 130mm gun but the Armata seems to be too expensive.
can you make a video about how to destroy merkava tank? love your content btw
Why would you want to know that?
alfawiski i think this would be challenging one
Just send it to Russia, where it will get stuck in the mud and freeze in the cold!
@@paulziberth1148 you know israel isn’t a desert right? Merkavas are also being deployed in Israel’s snowy borders
@@fishgaming9818 It's doesn't have a good armor so it's easy
At 6:05byou are saying that the reason why armata has 125 mm instead of 152 mm is that Russia wouldn't need to produce 152 mm ammo. But Russia already has thousands 152mm artillery systems (for example, "Rapira") that use apfsds, heat or he of that caliber.
rapira is not 152mm.
They will make some 152 to compliment 125!
Would love to hear your thoughts on the CV90-120.
Both T-14s kinda look like eachother
You have done Aramata turret protection concept before but remind me, what is the benefit of an MBT that can be wreaked by an auto cannon? Just asking, angry fan boys need not reply
It cant really get wreacked by autocannons more than other Tanks. The Crew is very safe, the rest is armoured enough. By not armouring everything to withstand 120mm apdsfs you can save a lot of weight and cost. Also the turret is a small Target that will likely not get hit often, so s lot of armour is unnecessarry especially since theres no Crew in it
Why was there a cold war rush for guns bigger than 120mm or 125mm? were they seriously gonna pump out new tanks with 140mm and 152mm guns on the assumption that armor technology would render the older guns ineffective?
THAT IS HYPETSONIC SPEEDS. HOW DOES THAT WORK WITH ACTIVE PROTECTION SYSTEM SUCH MILLIMETER RADAR?
I'm just hoping they have the t-14 armata's turret armor incase some big war is gonna happen.
There are a lot of people who are clueless down below. While 152 mm caliber has a lot of flaws, it is essential upgrade in order to gain firepower superiority in a field. Armor is yet again catching up and estimated armor values of most tanks are bit higher than what our guns can penetrate. In order to get a chance of defeating modern armor, we need impractically long and extremely expensive rounds. This trend will only continue with time if we do not develop better guns. Our 120-125 mm calibers had evolved from medium barreled L/44 versions to L/60'ish range. We are yet again are approaching German WW2 school of thought where weapons were upwards to L/70 long and that wasn't even a ceiling. Making guns so long have issues on its own, like being impractical in urban fighting or delivering soft target performance. Yet, every time when we needed more firepower we always ultimately went for bigger calibers. It is only the matter of time when Nato is going to introduce 130 mm caliber and thus Russia will have to upgrade too despite its financial considerations and 152 mm is the only available gun in which a lot of money is already sunk in. Greater caliber is inevitable and I would say that T-14 should had come with it by default. It is next generation tank, it is not supposed to fight or to replace T-90 series or older. I'm also disappointed by false reporting of Russian defense ministry, claiming that tank can be upgraded with 152 mm while in reality it cannot and vehicle needs to be redeveloped which in my eyes is short sighted and just negligent.
If you think about it tanks started with stuff like 37mm guns and in a hundred years we’re going to be at like 250mm guns
3:32 How was it possible to mess up the tank names 2 times. It's Объект not Обькет.
Hey RedEffect, what vehicle is that at 1:52?
It's Object 490
And also the russian apfsds does have a higher initial muzzle velocity but the round isnt as heavy which means its penetrating ability falls offf much faster past 50 yards giving the abrams an overwhelming penetrating ability at ong range thanks to its longer/heavier rod
That´s not how physics or balistics works. The slower the intitial velocity the shorter would be the distance it can travel before hitting the ground. So the abrams apfsds rounds wont be able to shoot at distance effectively.
Now something about the penetration ablility, the main factor for the penetration capabilities, is the kinetic energy of a round (simple physics): E(kin)=1/2 x m x v^2
That the formula for it. The slow down which the rounds suffer both (125mm and 120mm) is nearly the same. So where as the 120mm abrams round gets its higher kinetic energy by higher mass it losses initial velocity and where the 125mm russian round is lighter makes it able to gain a higher initial velocity. So their penetration ability is what concerns kinetic energy the same but not their effective firing range.
The rest of their penetration ability is determined by the materials used and those hardness.
P.S. The Abrams is basically filled with depleted uranium (aswell in the armor also in the rounds) which is less radioactive than regular activated uranium but still makes it a potiential cancer bunker
Pretty much every current smooth bore tank gun is potentially obsolete. BAE's Cased Telescoped Round will be up-gunning the 40mm cannon on the warrior to a weapon able to penetrate 140mm with it's AP round, shoot down helicopters with a distance programmable/fused air burst round or a concrete busting (210mm) proximity HiEx... What has this got to do with tank guns, well if BAE can go down to a NEW 6.5mm for US rifles why can't they go up to 105mm/155mm for navel and 120mm for MBT's. More deadly, smart, simpler loading systems and overall a smaller round that is easier to store. CTR could potentially give the Challenger 3 the equivalent hitting power of a 9" Navel Gun. I did put 19" but that was a typo, as I was thinking the WW2 BL IX 9.2" sorry if i misled.
A 19 inch gun??? Absolutely BS
@@mcnuffin1208 Almost twice the kinetic hitting power of a standard round. A 40mm AP round able to pen 140mm of Rolled steel ...figures published by BAE. 120mm x 2 kinetic damage is say 220mm Pen. So a 9" Mk9 Navel Gun. Not sure whay I put 19 when I was thinking of the BL Mk9. But hopefully you can see the math.
Suppose it’ll be kinda like the Abrams where it started with the 105 then moved to the 120
well... the 105 was a rifled gun whilr the120 was smooth.... thats like srs worldly difference... it should have been done in the 60s ( like the soviets did , or an other way to say it is that the soviets where 20 years ahead ;) / comparativly the 152 mm gun dosent offer to big of an advantage ( the biggest one would be that it would match the caliber of ATGM 9M133 . )
7:23 you said 122mm gun instead of 152mm!
Talk about object 640/black eagle its another russian prototype tank that was made during 80/90s but never entered service/production.
Russian gun design is symptomatic of Russian tank force doctrinal problems.
They design throwaway, low quality, subsystems and then expect to sustain quality of force improvements to parity level tank capabilities across a much larger /capacity/ fleet. Only to discover they have to continually reinvest in new micro-improvements to keep up and thus have major problems leveling the fleet capability standards as a whole. This is made worse by the absence of high technical quality, regional level, service depots able to undertake major updates (all upgrades have to be done at the single OEM which leads to line complications) and relatively large variety of vehicles and subvariants, all with non standardized systems.
For a tank main tube, it is the total interval between barrel changes firing effective full charge rounds that counts. When a western barrel can go 1,500 rounds and a Russian one 300-500, there is a massive technology difference.
And this translates to (initial) accuracy as well. FTA units firing 125mm 2A46 series guns from brand new, captured, vehicles found an average .4 milliradian error in the gun which simply could not be zeroed out due to the floppiness of long barrel weapons, made from very thin, steel. A late-life barrel (and Russians still use barrels for hundreds of rounds after they should be condemned) is going to be .9 mils or more.
When a ~5,000lb gun can be installed on a 40 ton tank ONLY because of limited gun elevation on the compressed trunnions, you have a problem because limitations in elevation compensation for heat induced droop and by-age/accident warping mean HEAT becomes unusable beyond about 2,800m and APFSDS beyond 2,000m. Because the dart is much more picky about where it hits to achieve useful pen at a given deflection, your nominal aimpoint control as gunner training standard has to be much tighter.
Which is why Russian ballistic rounds are augmented by ATGM on Soviet legacy tanks. But missiles are so expensive that you might as well not be using a gun and shifting to much faster and/or multishot guidance capable rounds from a dedicated, hyper velocity, missile based, tank destroyer.
Since such a vehicle could theoretically destroy 4 enemy vehicles in a single salvo and thus only needs to carry 8-12 rounds onboard to have justified it's cost per kill. Think of a 'super Javelin carrier' which LOAL killed enemy armor by firing 1 shot every .5 seconds using an elevated MMW radar to assign multiple missiles to multiple vehicles out to 10km.
M865 TPCSDS-T training rounds use simple steel rather than DU and thus are much lower weight projectiles and so are able to achieve similar accuracy (.5 mil) to M829 with non-EFC rounds, albeit over typically shorter (gunnery range as much as MV) distances. Yet even a .5 mil gun leads to a circular error probable almost a meter across at 1,000m down range (19 inches from the center of aimpoint) and up to 6 feet across at 4,000m. An Abrams can handle this because it's almost a meter taller and has much higher barrel elevation range to compensate for late life barrel droop.
And yet we don't.
The M256 (Abrams 120mm gun) only achieves a .25 mil accuracy over about the first quarter of its EFC life. Any armor unit going to war with more than a couple hundred rounds through the barrel is going to be rebarreled before deployment.
If you are going to achieve dominant LERs in a conventional tank, using conventional (unguided) rounds, you need to both massively increase the effective .8SSPK firing range, getting kills out to 8km with .85SSPH hit rates. Or/and greatly increase the firing -rate- and protection/mobility levels so that you can close to shorter engagement distances and accept lower kills per hit and less accuracy but still achieve more aimed shots.
Within the latter case, you also have to control for costs so that you can accept various numeric stacking modifiers (how many tanks are on the battlefield vs. how many can actually shoot at a valid, discrete, target in a given choke or ambush condition) by upping the number of tanks in your own brigade or regimental units.
Russia has neither improved the firing rate nor the fire control/accuracy of her tanks, over range, and thus is falling further and further behind the technology race by emphasizing only the protection factor of her vehicles which increases costs while retaining the inadequacies of going with a 40 ton LC tank.
No Western tank designer would accept single-shot ERA+Passive armor survivability because he would know that either shifting to greater accuracy would allow the tank defenses to be picked apart from greater range than he could shoot back. Or shifting aimpoints (STAFF was a smart fused EFP that enabled top attack, it is likely that AMP will be too) to an undefended sector would lead to complete bypass of the defended frontal arc. The U.S. in fact does both. With M829A4 and 3rd Generation Thermal Sights plus a new gunnery control system which is going to turn APFSDS into a plunging fire system, over a datalink.
Historically, when armor really ties into it, the number of shots exchanged is enormous. Easily 4-5 shots per tank involved in the fight.
By itself, this makes the mixed reactive/passive defense problem untenable, even before you factor in the APS in the primary (subsonic ATGW/ATR) defense mode for which ERA was first invented. APS is cheaper, it is reloadable, it covers more sectors, more quickly. It can handle top attack and diver profiles up to about 1,200m/sec.
Russia needed to go all out and up their game within an affordable 250 tank force structure that could act as a spearhead capability, able to completely thrash the threat in all areas of the Iron Triangle while reserving more modest upgrades to an 'older' (T-90M) fleet as a standardization effort across the existing tank force (500 more) for the secondary missions of infantry support and maneuver escort.
If nothing else, this would have vastly improved their logistics carry on a trucks per tank basis.
Gradually backfilling and changing out the inventory as war threat demanded or economic GDP improvement allowed. If you have nukes and believe in their use, as the ultimate strategic guarantor of territorial sovereignty; you have time to do a major technology refresh on your armor force.
Instead, Russia tried to retain capacity while remaining dwarf tank attached to limited capability upgrades. And the results are being made clear, in Ukraine.
Ukraine basically has the same issues russia does with their equipment, only Ukraine has western backing and training, while Russia has their usual tactical doctrine that is easily exploitable in modern combat
T-14 gradually degrades from prototype to t-90 with crew in separate module
pls explain
Does the T-14 need to elevate it‘s gun like Leopard 2 or Challenger 2? I ask because I’ve saw an animated video of the Autoloader of t-14 and it looks like it hast to...
Bigger is not always better, lies my wife!
Problem with 152 other then logistics is ammo storage - tanks are not made of rubber - you cannot have unlimited storage. Hence why Germany is thinking of say 140mm gun not NATO 155mm. I am sure there is work on eventually going to 152mm for the Russians, but when there is no pressing need for the next decade+ why be at the front & bear all the costs up front. Leopard III sporting 140mm is at least 2 decades away from operational duty.
This video should just be called "Why Russia can't afford nice things"
if they are going to replace a gun they shuld desighn a new one that wuld need minimal changes made to the tank
Source for the image at 3:47?
.🏴☠️T14 Armata needs to be mass produced ASAP.🏴☠️
At least 10000 T14 Aramatas for the Russian army.
10,000 T14 Armatas for the Russian Army 👍🏻
You cannot lose anything you never had.
Twice as heavy with half the ammo? Bigger is not always better. Whats better is smaller with more lethality
Object 477 and 195 for War Thunder confirmed.
I have a buddy who lives right by one of the factories that supposedly produces the T-14. He seems to think they're paper tanks, not actually real.
How the fuck, he live in the mountain in Nizhny Tagil or something
Your buddy is a moron.
You are clearly lying
@@utaMAN12345 Well considering on paper they cost less than an M1A2 to build (a chassis in use for 30 years), and the entire country can somehow only afford 10 of them....that can barely make it through a parade without breaking down, I'd say they're less real than the russian government would like you to believe.
@@utaMAN12345 Yes, you understand that the city they're producing them in has a greater than 4 million population, right? People besides vatniks live there, a shocker, I know.
IN WW2 Yankee tankers complained the Shermans only had 100 rounds !
The speed of war has increased.
Tanks aren't expected to fight (or last) for that long anymore.
Beyond 135mm I think the barrel size becomes counterproductive as in it's too heavy, unweildy and slow. Also it's a step back in MBT's trying to fit urban fighting warzones rather than open fields. For NATO I would say a 126mm should be it's next progression. No need one up the Russian calibres by that big of a margin; bigger guns are about over the horizon capacity so instead improve the netcentric fighting aspects that improves that capacity first and upgrade the guns to match that distance capability to project kinetic force. Maybe that is what they're doing with 130mm; current NATO tanks have about 5km to 12km of over the horizon awareness; having a gun that can cover that range is crucial.
Anyone know how the 130mm Germany is producing would perform against the T-14
The turret are un-armored, so a hit there are a misson kill, a hit in the front hull will probebly give shock damage to the fancy electronic and do a misson kill. A side/rear hit and somthing important will break, like the crew or the engine (asuming the hits are solid hits and not a glancing blow or strange angel) But all this is only speculation becuse nobady here know how good or bad the 130mm cannon/projectile are or how good or bad the composit armor of the T-14 are.