For some groundbreaking insights regarding the quality and intensity of the Egyptian Air Force’s groundbreaking dissimilar air combat maneuvering (DACM) training program between 1967-1973, I highly recommend that one reads the book that I linked to below. You might be shocked to learn that the EAF DACM training was actually in many ways the most advanced and intensive in the world by 1973, with the IDF/AF program being the closest-but second best-competitor. By 1973, even relatively junior EAF pilots were logging a _bare minimum_ of 250 flying hours per year, but more often closer to 350-400+ flying hours per year. With most Egyptian fighter aircraft having such short range, nearly every minute of every training sortie was dedicated to intense operational training from wheels-up to touchdown. All kinds of tactics and engagements were rehearsed, including 1-v-1, 1-v-2, 2-v-2, 2-v-4, and 4-v-4. Dogfighting of dissimilar aircraft types at all altitudes and in all kinds of starting advantage/disadvantage positions was practiced, and every kind of maneuvering-high-speed, low-speed, horizontal, and vertical-was in the curriculum. The EAF also trained its pilots on a special dogfighting maneuver that was called the _zero speed maneuver_ , and which had originally been developed by SyAAF pilots, but had been perfected by the EAF. The EAF also trained intensively with and against Dassault Mirage.5 fighters (courtesy of the the LARAF). Though pilots were trained to closely cooperate with their radar ground controllers, the EAF was very cognizant of Israeli radar and communication jamming, and so pilots were trained to rely on their own initiative and fluid team tactics once an engagement began, with the ground control merely helping to provide overall situational awareness. In the last decade especially, an impressive number of memoirs and interviews with veteran pilots of the EAF has come to light, and in nearly every single case, every EAF pilot interviewed was able to recall the names of every one of their wingmen and formation mates: such was the intensity with which these men trained, lived, fought, and sometimes died together, that they could never forget the names of their mates! Also, you may be interested in knowing that even back in 1973, pilots were conducting much-and perhaps most-of their of their day-to-day business, including planning, documentation, log book maintenance, and inflight chatter in English! I remember once hearing the entire recording of the radio chatter of a dogfight that took place between Egyptian MiG-21s and Israeli F-4 Phantoms in February of 1970, and nearly the entire dialog between the pilots and their radar ground controller was in English (esp. the technical jargon, such as the headings, altitudes, and speeds, and all the maneuvers were referred to by their proper English names). By the way, you’ll also find that the book at the link below includes some rather significant technical detail that reveals the enormous gulf in the performance characteristics, payload, and equipment between the F-4E Phantom, and every other type in the EAF’s service, especially the MiG-21. You’ll actually realize how _massively_ the F-4E actually outmatched every version of the MiG-21 in EAF service, including the fact that the F-4E actually _did_ have better dogfighting characteristics, especially the versions of the Phantom that came with the wing leading-edge slats. The Phantom also had so much thrust that it easily maintained higher speeds-both with and without afterburner-than the MiG-21, even when the Phantom was fully loaded. And the Phantom had much higher fuel reserves, meaning that it could use its afterburners in a much more sustained fashion than the MiG-21. Even in full afterburner and with a minimal load, a MiG-21M or -21MF simply couldn’t keep up with even a fully-loaded F-4E in any axis, especially if the latter was also using its afterburners. This meant that IDF/AF pilots could decide to engage or disengage at will, and could outpace the MiG-21s in whichever axis the F-4Es chose. The MiG-21 was generally a safe, reliable, and even exhilarating mount to fly in peacetime, truly beloved by its pilots. But in combat, oh my… It had horrible visibility to the front and below, and non-existent visibility to the rear, and even the ejection seat headrest was angled in such a way that pilots couldn’t see their own wingtips, let alone their rear quadrant (rear-view mirrors installed in some versions on the cockpit canopies hardly helped). The control system was described by pilots as _exhausting_ due to the sheer amount of force that a pilot needed to exert on the control column in order to maintain a sustained tight turn. The delta wing acted as a huge airbrake that immediately bled airspeed in a turn, requiring simultaneous use of the afterburner, which in turn taxed the aircraft’s very limited fuel supply. Adding drop-tanks (on those versions whose wing hardpoints were piped to accept them) meant that the under-wing armament load was reduced by half. Of course, carrying drop-tanks also imposed maneuvering limitations, and jettisoning the tanks meant that the pilot was back in essentially “fuel emergency” mode all over again. The MiG-21’s R-3S air-to-air missile was nearly useless, had an easily spoofed infrared seeker, could only achieve lock-on from an extremely narrow 3-degree cone of fire immediately behind the target’s rear quadrant, and couldn’t track any target pulling more than 3 Gs. This meant that an Israeli pilot would merely need to pull 3.5 Gs or more to evade it. Most EAF MiG-21s didn’t have an internal gun. Those that did, either had a 30mm gun with only 60 rounds (2 short bursts, that’s it!), or a 23mm gun whose rounds had a relatively light destructive power. Those 23mm rounds had difficulty destroying the IDF/AF’s tough F-4Es, A-4s, and Mirages even in many cases when numerous direct hits were scored. Of course, even if an EAF pilot was lucky enough to fly a MiG-21 with a gun, its gunsight gyro “tumbled” at anything over 3 or 3.5 Gs, which greatly hindered its use in turning dogfights. Also in a turning dogfight, the MiG-21’s long and wide nose meant that even if an EAF pilot had achieved optimum position for a guns kill (where the aiming point is “leading” the target, which would usually be to the front and slightly below the MiG-21’s nose) the Egyptian pilot could never actually see the Israeli fighter at which he was in a perfect position to open fire. I highly recommend that you buy a copy of the book below. Also, if you ever get the chance, I highly recommend that you get your hands on the 6-part _Arab MiGs_ series co-authored by the same Tom Cooper who co-authored the book below. Believe me, you won’t regret it! smile.amazon.com/gp/product/1911628712/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Thanks for this detailed insight. I already own a bunch of Tom Cooper's books and i intend to collect them all eventually. Recently, they started to appear in kindle versions which is far better with the cost of shipment these days. He really brings a lot of light into previously unclear subjects. The old narrative is still quite rooted though.
I really admire the way you quote your sources. You're very specific about where you got your information and include any doubts you have about the information. I also enjoy the 'teletype/typewriter' effect with the graphics information across the screen. The CGI effects are VERY good and true to the event depicted in a superb manner. My highest compliments. Thank you.
Sir, this is a DCS flight simulation program, which has become very popular now, and it can be said that most people use it to feel like sitting in the cockpit of a warplane. Of course, the creation of such scenes in this simulation program proceeds according to the scenario, it requires high skill and takes a lot of time. I have followed many channels that play DCS and watch their video clips, but I can say for sure that I know only this channel that has such beautiful and accurate, simulates the operations
You really do a lot of research to achieve such detailed maneuvers. Those Syrian pilots were definitely not lucky after surviving their dogfight with the Mirages to be shot down by their own air defenses. In the meantime on the ground some of the most ferocious tank battles were taking place at point blank ranges according to Israeli tank commanders.
Interesting video, but one aspect that I would have to point out as unrealistic was the paint scheme of the Mirages. The bare metal with red trim was how they were originally delivered to Israel from France, and how they fought the ‘67 war. However, by the ‘73 war, they were typically in the Israeli three-tone camo scheme of light tan, medium tan, and olive drab.
That is true. Mirage skins are not historically accurate. However, the camouflage Israeli skin for this mod is not available. Before Mirage III mod was released, someone made a very nice Israeli camouflage skin for Mirage 2000, based on these 70's paint schemes. But after consideration, I decided it is better to have the correct aircraft with incorrect skin, than incorrect aircraft with correct skin. My skinning abilities are rather rudimentary and the whole process is really time consuming so it is just one of the compromises I need to do with these videos..
REMARCABLE JOB of yours presenting all this information as an historical aviation event, no political comments about. The video itself has an excellent quality. CONGRATULATIONS.
Thank you for this feedback! Just yesterday, this dude from Russia was extremely upset with one of my videos and calling them the propaganda of the evil NATO or something like that 😁
Great video. Those Mig 21s were comparably small. I find it no wonder they would go unobserved. By the same token they went unidentified by the AA crew. That is so sad. Friendly fire kills have to be about the worst part of war. The poor guys who pulled the trigger have to live with that. I can't imagine how.
Thanks for the comment. This was not the only friendly fire incident during this war. Syrian anti-aircaft defense was especially 'effective' against their Iraqi allies. They shot down more Iraqi aircraft than the Israelis. Some IFF problem, it seems.
Very good reenactment, video and editing! But, most of all, i do appreciate you scientific approach: always make research, and mention the sources! And their eventual weakness tereupon... 👍🏻 Cubed!
hey, i'm a military historian (MA) specializing in IAF operations. I looked up this story in the IAF archives. found ZERO evidence for this dog fight on the 7th of October. if i were you, i'll double check my sources...
Hello! Well, it is possible that this story is not entirely accurate. However, when it comes to any stories from the Arab side, there's basically just one source in the West. I never claim 100% that things happened exactly this way but sources are always in the video description. This same source however also says that an Israeli Mirage shot down a Syrian SU-7 which I couldn't find on the Israeli claim list (why would they make something like that up?). There's also the friendly fire incident which doesn't make them look very good. But I appreciate your attitude, you have strong arguments behind your comment. Unlike some others who just say things like 'Israel won all the wars so it must have also won every single battle within those wars and therefore this is not possible'.
...you're right about the difficulty to see the Migs... neither had a good radar and neither smoked on dry thrust... and the Migs cammo looks hard to see against the ground. Great stuff. Have any Vautours available?
Yes, I think having good situational awareness is one of the hardest things in air combat. No Vatours sadly. Nor Ouragans, Mysteres.... Of the French planes, Mirage F1 is definitely coming.
A great video. The fact is, the pilot who is led effectively by the ground control to a position of advantage is likely to score, the technological edge not withstanding.
During Operation Bodenplatte in January 1945, large numbers of Luftwaffe fighters were shot down by German gunners, since they assumed that any large formations of aircraft had to be Allied.
Those Mirages didn’t spot Migs exactly the same way as the Syrian SAMs spotted and downed their own planes: by misjudgement and lack of operational info. Common thing even nowadays with all these AI and stuff. Anyways, another good episode with glory and drama in one piece)
Congrats Showtime112 Great Historic Content and work as always. The Mirage IIIC looks so sexy in her natural metal finish i call here the Brigitte Bardot of the 60th's when it comes to good looking Fighter Jets. There's just one thing if my memory serves me right. There where no natural metal finish Mirages IIIC during 1973 at the outbreak of the Yom-Kippur War, all IAF Mirage and Nesher interceptors had the same camouflage pattern applied. The camouflage was applied after the six-day war and the beginning of 1968. With the appearance of Libyan Mirage 5's over the Suez Canal crossing of Baloza-Romani on the ninth day of the war, IAF Mirage and Neshers were painted with FS33538 yellow and black identification triangles on the vertical fin and wing surfaces. The IAF retained use of these identification triangles until the introduction of Ghost Grey colours on the Mirage and Kfir beginning in end of 1976 (with the arrival of the F-15 Eagle).
Thank you for your comment. You are right about Mirages. In the Yom Kippur period, they wore camouflage instead of metal finish. But such a skin is not yet available for this mod. There is one for Mirage 2000 which is based on Mirage III camouflage paint but I guess it is better to have the right plane with wrong skin than the other war around.
@@showtime112 Most welcome. I get your point. Didn't knew there was no camouflage available for this mod. You made the right choice its better to have a Mirage IIIC also called "Shahak" Hebrew nickname (heavens), in the original metal finish then a Mirage 2000 with the camouflage.
Odlican video. Iznenadjen sam cinjenicama da su u to doba piloti mogli samo tako da se odvoje od skupine bez javljanja, a kamoli dozvole. Sto se tice ovoga na kraju i price o realnosti, cuo sam isto da mig-21 ima jako mal radarski odraz, pogotovo ako dolazi ravno iz suprotnog smjera.
Hvala za komentar. Što se tiče ovog odvajanja, mislim da do nije bila standardna procedura nego vjerojatno previd uslijed uzbuđenja. A možda je i kao vođa skupine očekivao da će ga slijediti ali očito je prenaglo skrenuo. Priču na kraju sam ubacio jer uvijek ima komentara tipa 'ovo je tako nerealno' ali to nije utemeljeno na nečemu stvarnom već možda samo na igranju DCS-a ili gledanju nekih određenih kanala. Znam čak i da su svi komentari dobri za video ali ponekad mi se ne da objašnjavati :)
@@showtime112 meni je super to sto si dodao dodatne argumente na kraju, nisam do sada znao taj podatak da je vecina obaranja postignuto "iznenadjenjem".
@@brainfart3619 Da, još je Oswald Boelcke 1916. napisao pravila zračne borbe "Dicta Boelcke". Prvo pravilo glasi "Pokušaj osigurati prednost prije napada. Ako je moguće neka ti sunce bude za leđima". Odnosno, napadaj prvenstveno kad imaš faktor iznenađenja na svojoj strani.
Israeli fighter pilot training heavily upholded upon supposition that Israelis shall always spot the enemies first, in VMC - but ... Third Generation fighter aircrafts.
Just earlier this month-December 9th, 2021-marked the 52nd anniversary of the victories of the Egyptian Air Force in the air battles that took place over the Gulf of Suez and the Gabal 'Ataka/Ain Sukhna sectors on December 9th, 1969. On that morning, two Egyptian MiG-21 pilots engaged and shot down two enemy Mirage-IIICJ fighter aircraft, with the EAF suffering no losses in return. Later that evening, another air combat ensued when a section of EAF MiG-21 interceptors engaged a section of enemy F-4E Phantom aircraft. The F-4Es were attempting to support an enemy reconnaissance mission that had been intercepted by another section of MiG-21s. During the large dogfight that ensued, 1st Lieutenant Ahmad Atef of the EAF (shown in the photograph, circled) became the first pilot of the EAF to score a confirmed kill against the F-4E. Again, the EAF suffered no losses in return, ending the day on a high note with a 3:0 kill ratio. On an interesting note: ten years later, when the EAF inducted the F-4E into its own inventory, Ahmad Atef became the first EAF pilot to qualify on the Phantom, thus achieving the unique distinction of being the first EAF pilot to shoot down an F-4E in combat, and the first EAF pilot to fly one in service.
Some great simulations of historical events there, in spite of the amusing (albeit low key) propagandist aspect of only one side seeming to ever win. Rather than focus on the tactics of individual engagements, is there some possibility of selecting examples that show the "measure" vs "counter-measure" that typifies evolution in tactics and equipment?
There are several factors that determine on the choice of topic. Availability of historic descriptions, and availability of DCS assets. Israeli aircraft from this period are sadly not available (except the Mirage III mod which uses F-15 cockpit so I really can't show any shots of it, and A-4 Skyhawk). And for some strange reason, videos in which I fly MiGs are a lot more popular.
would you consider a skit covering the Air Battle over El Mansoura Egypt in this same conflict ..... Egyptian MIG pilots displayed courage and tenacity defending their airspace against Israeli F-4 and A-4 aircraft
@@showtime112 : If you can get your hands on it, I highly recommend the “Arab MiGs” series authored by Tom Cooper, David Nicolle, and a number of other co-authors and contributors. That series is worth its weight in gold.
Nicolle and Cooper don't give exact details about this shootdown except that it happened after some chasing through the hills of Golan Heights. In such cases, I make some educated guess on how it could have happened.
Mirage III didn't carry radars any more at this point. They were so useless that Israelis simply took them out and replaced by ballast. MiG-21s radar was not very useful at this altitude. As for the radios, I don't see why that's relevant.
@@omarhanbali4953 Well, the pilot of the first Mirage Ami Lahav never ejected. He was probably killed instantly or incapacitated. When you are dead and you then spend a minute or so talking on the radio and explaining your situation, now that's weird!
20:23 how is it not possible to spot a yellow speck that is moving against a yellow background while having to fly in close formation and communicate with a control tower ?
I was going to say that this was the most successful Syrian AF mission in history, and the Israeli AF worst, but then the Syrian anti aircraft defenses stepped in and made it more of a typical Syrian AF outing.
I believe they had them but those things are not 100 percent reliable and many other factors can go wrong. They also shot down several of their Iraqi allies.
Radar Warning Receivers were still quite new and not all the aircraft had them. Not that it helped with IR homing missiles. As for IFF, it's still a bit unreliable. Patriot missiles have never shot down an enemy airplane but they shot down two friendly ones.
No, sorry, do not accept this story! As far as the planes being third gen and being difficult to fly I cannot vouch for the Mig 21 but that was definitely NOT the case with the Mirage III, she was a sweet flying plane, not a high workload on the pilot.
So, you are basically saying that every Mirage pilot had a maximum situational awareness at any time? They were impossible to surprise? They felt the enemy presence in The Force?
To je moguće ali moraš imati modul koji se zove Combined Arms. S njime se onda može upravljati vozilima, protu-avionskim topovima itd. Nisam se puno time bavio, nakratko samo isprobao kad je bio free to play period.
Was this the only Egyptian victory of the war? Weren't many in this conflict from my understanding. You certainly have an emphasis on the non-west combatants.
It wasn't the only one although it is very hard to estimate an exact number. I really wouldn't say I emphasize non-western combatants. I just offer that point of view as well (which is very rare). But if you look at all the videos, you will see that most of them are from the Western or Israeli PoV. Among other things, because they are much better documented and accessible.
A 'tail warning radar' ?!?!? I suggest before challenging someone, you at least first learn the proper terminology. The thing is called Radar Warning Receiver. And no, Mirage IIIC didn't have it. Even if it did, it would still provide no warning against heat seeking missiles. Most air-to-air kills in history were achieved with the element of surprise and the victims never knew they were being attacked or only became aware when it was too late.
What?!?! Just where did you get that information?!? Or maybe you come from a parallel universe because in this universe, this is sooooo not true😁 Seriously, who told you that?
@@imadjazairi3423 Then you either don't remember well or you mistook MIrages with some older types such as Mystere or Ouragan. Mirages remained in service until early 1980s. And every single source that you can possibly find clearly says that Mirage III was being widely used during the 1973 War. At the time, they were used in air-to-air role exclusively because Phantom and Skyhawk was more capable in air-to-ground. I can list dozens of sources confirming that.
@@imadjazairi3423 Very arrogant to call somebody stupid, especially when your side was defeated. Oh, as for mirages, they were very active in shooting your pilots out of the sky. How did it feel when the airplane you worked on and the pilots you knew personally never came back?
Mig-21 je idalje moze da posluzi da uništavanje tenkova i pesadije, ali ne da se sukobljava sa avionima tipa f-16. Mi smo osposobili jedan mig-21 za obuku pilota i na kraju nam se obilo o glavu jer su poginula dva vrhunska pilota.
Jedan dobar dio svojih DCS sati naleta sam napravio na ovom avionu. Traži dosta koncentracije. Motor se lako ugasi ako ne paziš, ne voli visoke napadne kuteve, brzina slijetanja je velika, kod polijetanja lako zapneš za tlo onim stabilizatorom s donje strane. Ipak je on jako davno dizajniran. Jesi ti počeo sa svojim letenjem u stvarnosti?
@@showtime112 Jos ne, trenutno se sprovodi selektivna obuka na kolegama koji su presli na avione super galeb g-4. Ja bio trebao da pocnem da letim u aprilu ili maju na avionu lasta 95.
@@showtime112 Sqn ldr Sattar Alvi was the one who successfully shot down first Israeli Mirage 3 at Golan heights during 67 Arab Israel War... Later PAF pilot Saif ul Azam also shot down 5 Israeli jets and became the Ace pilot of PAF...
Thank you for your comment! I intend to make some videos from Indo-pakistani conflicts in the future. I've only done one for now but it's a very rich field to draw good topics for videos from.
Mr. Ashish Raval, Hello. Sorry to jump inbetween your comment. I want you and fellow nationals to remember just one thing while you make request.. these are DCS.. videos. They never reflect the true capacity of planes, weapons or airforce tactics...as all are secrets specially when in service. Yes they can be used for animation reactment of historic battles provided the information battle is clear from all sides. Never use these games for actual comparitive analysis. I have seen many guys in comment section of several DCS players channels, trying to draw conclusion about actual planes on the basis on these DCS games.It can create serious issues. Regards
This is so true. Even if the aircraft specification are accurate, there's so much more that determines the outcome of battles and that's not well simulated. I often have to use various tricks to replicate historic results. If I just make the initial setup and then play the scenario, I could never ever have the exact historic outcome. Funny thing, your comment was in the 'held for review' section and I've only now noticed it. I think the reason might be the lack of space between words 'games' and 'it' which made it look like a web address :)
So, according to this "book", were Israeli pilots basically sitting ducks? Really? Let's remember that the guys won the war (despite the enemy's ruse to attack on holiday) and all the others. And it certainly wasn't with that kind of flight ...
No. The book focuses more on pointing out that Arabs were not just sitting ducks. When I first read it, I had trouble accepting this concept. And yes, Israel won this war too. But it was by the closest margin. And Israeli aces caused havoc again but nor all Israeli pilots were aces. They had mediocre pilots too. Or just unlucky ones.
So that means what? They didn't get shot down? Just because 99% videos on these matters are from US equipment users doesn't meant every lost plane was luck/technical failure.
@@showtime112 it wasn’t by the closest margins. The Arabs were defeated! Syria lost almost 1000 tanks with crews. The general staff headquarters in Damascus was bombed to bits, the number of airplanes they lost was staggering. And they never made it passed the Hokan heights into Israel. 9 years later they lost they’re entire SAM force in one day! Close Marvin my ass.
@@arip9234 I meant compared to other wars such as 1967 and 1982. And it's true that in the final phase of the 1973 war Israelis were very successful but throughout most of the war, it was extremely uncertain. Attacks against enemy airfields didn't work, attacks against SAMs didn't work, airplane loss rates were way too high. The 1982 Lebanon war seems like a walk in the park compared to this. And maybe I'm focusing mostly on the aerial warfare because I know a lot less about ground warfare. However, I appreciate your comment!
ONE of the worst outcomes is when you are shot down by your own. When you have done your duty towards your country and are supposedly safe, you get a shocker of your life. But, be that as it may, mistakes happen and in the heat of battle, many are confused. They have to get over it and go on nevertheless.
For some groundbreaking insights regarding the quality and intensity of the Egyptian Air Force’s groundbreaking dissimilar air combat maneuvering (DACM) training program between 1967-1973, I highly recommend that one reads the book that I linked to below. You might be shocked to learn that the EAF DACM training was actually in many ways the most advanced and intensive in the world by 1973, with the IDF/AF program being the closest-but second best-competitor.
By 1973, even relatively junior EAF pilots were logging a _bare minimum_ of 250 flying hours per year, but more often closer to 350-400+ flying hours per year. With most Egyptian fighter aircraft having such short range, nearly every minute of every training sortie was dedicated to intense operational training from wheels-up to touchdown.
All kinds of tactics and engagements were rehearsed, including 1-v-1, 1-v-2, 2-v-2, 2-v-4, and 4-v-4. Dogfighting of dissimilar aircraft types at all altitudes and in all kinds of starting advantage/disadvantage positions was practiced, and every kind of maneuvering-high-speed, low-speed, horizontal, and vertical-was in the curriculum. The EAF also trained its pilots on a special dogfighting maneuver that was called the _zero speed maneuver_ , and which had originally been developed by SyAAF pilots, but had been perfected by the EAF. The EAF also trained intensively with and against Dassault Mirage.5 fighters (courtesy of the the LARAF).
Though pilots were trained to closely cooperate with their radar ground controllers, the EAF was very cognizant of Israeli radar and communication jamming, and so pilots were trained to rely on their own initiative and fluid team tactics once an engagement began, with the ground control merely helping to provide overall situational awareness. In the last decade especially, an impressive number of memoirs and interviews with veteran pilots of the EAF has come to light, and in nearly every single case, every EAF pilot interviewed was able to recall the names of every one of their wingmen and formation mates: such was the intensity with which these men trained, lived, fought, and sometimes died together, that they could never forget the names of their mates!
Also, you may be interested in knowing that even back in 1973, pilots were conducting much-and perhaps most-of their of their day-to-day business, including planning, documentation, log book maintenance, and inflight chatter in English! I remember once hearing the entire recording of the radio chatter of a dogfight that took place between Egyptian MiG-21s and Israeli F-4 Phantoms in February of 1970, and nearly the entire dialog between the pilots and their radar ground controller was in English (esp. the technical jargon, such as the headings, altitudes, and speeds, and all the maneuvers were referred to by their proper English names).
By the way, you’ll also find that the book at the link below includes some rather significant technical detail that reveals the enormous gulf in the performance characteristics, payload, and equipment between the F-4E Phantom, and every other type in the EAF’s service, especially the MiG-21. You’ll actually realize how _massively_ the F-4E actually outmatched every version of the MiG-21 in EAF service, including the fact that the F-4E actually _did_ have better dogfighting characteristics, especially the versions of the Phantom that came with the wing leading-edge slats. The Phantom also had so much thrust that it easily maintained higher speeds-both with and without afterburner-than the MiG-21, even when the Phantom was fully loaded. And the Phantom had much higher fuel reserves, meaning that it could use its afterburners in a much more sustained fashion than the MiG-21. Even in full afterburner and with a minimal load, a MiG-21M or -21MF simply couldn’t keep up with even a fully-loaded F-4E in any axis, especially if the latter was also using its afterburners. This meant that IDF/AF pilots could decide to engage or disengage at will, and could outpace the MiG-21s in whichever axis the F-4Es chose.
The MiG-21 was generally a safe, reliable, and even exhilarating mount to fly in peacetime, truly beloved by its pilots. But in combat, oh my… It had horrible visibility to the front and below, and non-existent visibility to the rear, and even the ejection seat headrest was angled in such a way that pilots couldn’t see their own wingtips, let alone their rear quadrant (rear-view mirrors installed in some versions on the cockpit canopies hardly helped).
The control system was described by pilots as _exhausting_ due to the sheer amount of force that a pilot needed to exert on the control column in order to maintain a sustained tight turn. The delta wing acted as a huge airbrake that immediately bled airspeed in a turn, requiring simultaneous use of the afterburner, which in turn taxed the aircraft’s very limited fuel supply. Adding drop-tanks (on those versions whose wing hardpoints were piped to accept them) meant that the under-wing armament load was reduced by half. Of course, carrying drop-tanks also imposed maneuvering limitations, and jettisoning the tanks meant that the pilot was back in essentially “fuel emergency” mode all over again.
The MiG-21’s R-3S air-to-air missile was nearly useless, had an easily spoofed infrared seeker, could only achieve lock-on from an extremely narrow 3-degree cone of fire immediately behind the target’s rear quadrant, and couldn’t track any target pulling more than 3 Gs. This meant that an Israeli pilot would merely need to pull 3.5 Gs or more to evade it. Most EAF MiG-21s didn’t have an internal gun. Those that did, either had a 30mm gun with only 60 rounds (2 short bursts, that’s it!), or a 23mm gun whose rounds had a relatively light destructive power. Those 23mm rounds had difficulty destroying the IDF/AF’s tough F-4Es, A-4s, and Mirages even in many cases when numerous direct hits were scored. Of course, even if an EAF pilot was lucky enough to fly a MiG-21 with a gun, its gunsight gyro “tumbled” at anything over 3 or 3.5 Gs, which greatly hindered its use in turning dogfights. Also in a turning dogfight, the MiG-21’s long and wide nose meant that even if an EAF pilot had achieved optimum position for a guns kill (where the aiming point is “leading” the target, which would usually be to the front and slightly below the MiG-21’s nose) the Egyptian pilot could never actually see the Israeli fighter at which he was in a perfect position to open fire.
I highly recommend that you buy a copy of the book below. Also, if you ever get the chance, I highly recommend that you get your hands on the 6-part _Arab MiGs_ series co-authored by the same Tom Cooper who co-authored the book below. Believe me, you won’t regret it!
smile.amazon.com/gp/product/1911628712/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Thanks for this detailed insight. I already own a bunch of Tom Cooper's books and i intend to collect them all eventually. Recently, they started to appear in kindle versions which is far better with the cost of shipment these days. He really brings a lot of light into previously unclear subjects. The old narrative is still quite rooted though.
I really admire the way you quote your sources. You're very specific about where you got your information and include any doubts you have about the information. I also enjoy the 'teletype/typewriter' effect with the graphics information across the screen. The CGI effects are VERY good and true to the event depicted in a superb manner. My highest compliments. Thank you.
Thank you very much for your comment! It makes me really happy when people are able to see and interpret these videos exactly as they were intended!
Sir, this is a DCS flight simulation program, which has become very popular now, and it can be said that most people use it to feel like sitting in the cockpit of a warplane. Of course, the creation of such scenes in this simulation program proceeds according to the scenario, it requires high skill and takes a lot of time. I have followed many channels that play DCS and watch their video clips, but I can say for sure that I know only this channel that has such beautiful and accurate, simulates the operations
nice video, loved the cinematics, that shot at 1:00 with one MiG taxiing while the other comes from the hangar is beautiful.
Thanks! Yes, I found these ground padlocked and zoomed-in shots to work really well.
Very well done Showtime 112! Another great achievement!
Thanks, I'm happy to hear that you like this one too!
You really do a lot of research to achieve such detailed maneuvers. Those Syrian pilots were definitely not lucky after surviving their dogfight with the Mirages to be shot down by their own air defenses.
In the meantime on the ground some of the most ferocious tank battles were taking place at point blank ranges according to Israeli tank commanders.
Thanks for commenting! The 1973 War might be well know in some aspects but there's a lot more to discover I think.
Nicely Done Showtime. I like how you show things from a Historical Perspective. Well Done.
Thank you very much! More to come!
Interesting video, but one aspect that I would have to point out as unrealistic was the paint scheme of the Mirages.
The bare metal with red trim was how they were originally delivered to Israel from France, and how they fought the ‘67 war. However, by the ‘73 war, they were typically in the Israeli three-tone camo scheme of light tan, medium tan, and olive drab.
That is true. Mirage skins are not historically accurate. However, the camouflage Israeli skin for this mod is not available. Before Mirage III mod was released, someone made a very nice Israeli camouflage skin for Mirage 2000, based on these 70's paint schemes. But after consideration, I decided it is better to have the correct aircraft with incorrect skin, than incorrect aircraft with correct skin. My skinning abilities are rather rudimentary and the whole process is really time consuming so it is just one of the compromises I need to do with these videos..
Precisely because of this kind of sources, your videos are so interesting. Keep up the good work man!
Much appreciated! Keep watching!
Good video with the historical background 👌.
Thanks, glad you liked it!
REMARCABLE JOB of yours presenting all this information as an historical aviation event, no political comments about. The video itself has an excellent quality. CONGRATULATIONS.
Thank you for this feedback! Just yesterday, this dude from Russia was extremely upset with one of my videos and calling them the propaganda of the evil NATO or something like that 😁
@@showtime112 IGNORE that person, and keep up with your remarkable job. CONGRATULATIONS ¡¡¡¡¡¡
Love these clips..how about one on the Falklands conflict. Sea Harriers v Mirage, Skyhawks and Pucaras etc
Thanks! I've done one video about the Falklands conflict. There will probably be more in the future but I'm not sure when exactly.
Great video. Those Mig 21s were comparably small. I find it no wonder they would go unobserved. By the same token they went unidentified by the AA crew. That is so sad. Friendly fire kills have to be about the worst part of war. The poor guys who pulled the trigger have to live with that. I can't imagine how.
Thanks for the comment. This was not the only friendly fire incident during this war. Syrian anti-aircaft defense was especially 'effective' against their Iraqi allies. They shot down more Iraqi aircraft than the Israelis. Some IFF problem, it seems.
If they lived....
Very good reenactment, video and editing! But, most of all, i do appreciate you scientific approach: always make research, and mention the sources! And their eventual weakness tereupon... 👍🏻 Cubed!
Thank you for your comment, glad you liket the video!
We know you do your research Showtime. I just thought it was a great video. Entertaining & informative as usual.
Thank you very much for your positive feedback!
Absolutely love your channel!
I'm happy to hear it, thank you for your donation!
Great choice of music for the intro...
☀️😎☀️🇺🇸
Thanks! It's not Middle East specific but I think it gives a nice dramatic background.
hey, i'm a military historian (MA) specializing in IAF operations. I looked up this story in the IAF archives. found ZERO evidence for this dog fight on the 7th of October. if i were you, i'll double check my sources...
Hello! Well, it is possible that this story is not entirely accurate. However, when it comes to any stories from the Arab side, there's basically just one source in the West. I never claim 100% that things happened exactly this way but sources are always in the video description. This same source however also says that an Israeli Mirage shot down a Syrian SU-7 which I couldn't find on the Israeli claim list (why would they make something like that up?). There's also the friendly fire incident which doesn't make them look very good.
But I appreciate your attitude, you have strong arguments behind your comment. Unlike some others who just say things like 'Israel won all the wars so it must have also won every single battle within those wars and therefore this is not possible'.
...you're right about the difficulty to see the Migs... neither had a good radar and neither smoked on dry thrust... and the Migs cammo looks hard to see against the ground. Great stuff. Have any Vautours available?
Yes, I think having good situational awareness is one of the hardest things in air combat. No Vatours sadly. Nor Ouragans, Mysteres.... Of the French planes, Mirage F1 is definitely coming.
Oh, ofcourse we like it! 👍🏻
Sounds like an Arab airforce... Even when they make good choices in the air someone on the ground fucks it up.
Very interesting. Thank you !
I am happy to hear it, thank you!
A great video. The fact is, the pilot who is led effectively by the ground control to a position of advantage is likely to score, the technological edge not withstanding.
Thanks for the comment!
Amazing!! Where I can find the Mirage 3?
Thanks!
Thanks! Here's the download link for the Mirage III mod. It is flyable but it uses F-15 cockpit:
filehorst.de/folder.php?key=duuqITUb
@@showtime112 Thanks!!
Is there a download for the Su-7?
Ovo ti je najbolji video do sada. 👍
Hvala! I bio je jedan od najkompliciranijih za napraviti.
انا متابع عربي 😁❤️
Imagine being shut down by your own air defenses.
🤦♂️
Yes, there were many aircraft in a small airspace. And this whole BVR thing was quite new and not well developed yet.
During Operation Bodenplatte in January 1945, large numbers of Luftwaffe fighters were shot down by German gunners, since they assumed that any large formations of aircraft had to be Allied.
HA HA syrian SAM Hit syrian Mig 21 Make Me Laugh. Again Ha Ha H Ha
Those Mirages didn’t spot Migs exactly the same way as the Syrian SAMs spotted and downed their own planes: by misjudgement and lack of operational info. Common thing even nowadays with all these AI and stuff. Anyways, another good episode with glory and drama in one piece)
Thank you very much for your comment! Keep watching!
I would appreciate more of your narration so I could understand the action better.
The narration is different in more recent videos. This was old style which I abandoned quite some time ago.
Great video I want to see one about el mansura air battle the longest air battle in Yom Kippur war
Thanks! This story might be covered someday.
Congrats Showtime112 Great Historic Content and work as always. The Mirage IIIC looks so sexy in her natural metal finish i call here the Brigitte Bardot of the 60th's when it comes to good looking Fighter Jets. There's just one thing if my memory serves me right. There where no natural metal finish Mirages IIIC during 1973 at
the outbreak of the Yom-Kippur War, all IAF Mirage and Nesher interceptors had the same camouflage pattern applied. The camouflage was applied after the six-day war and the beginning of 1968. With the appearance of Libyan Mirage 5's over the Suez
Canal crossing of Baloza-Romani on the ninth day of the war, IAF Mirage and Neshers were painted with FS33538 yellow and black identification triangles on the vertical fin and wing surfaces. The IAF retained use of these identification triangles until the introduction of Ghost Grey colours on the Mirage and Kfir beginning in end of 1976 (with the arrival of the F-15 Eagle).
Thank you for your comment. You are right about Mirages. In the Yom Kippur period, they wore camouflage instead of metal finish. But such a skin is not yet available for this mod. There is one for Mirage 2000 which is based on Mirage III camouflage paint but I guess it is better to have the right plane with wrong skin than the other war around.
@@showtime112 Most welcome. I get your point. Didn't knew there was no camouflage available for this mod. You made the right choice its better to have a Mirage IIIC also called "Shahak" Hebrew nickname (heavens), in the original metal finish then a Mirage 2000 with the camouflage.
Odlican video. Iznenadjen sam cinjenicama da su u to doba piloti mogli samo tako da se odvoje od skupine bez javljanja, a kamoli dozvole.
Sto se tice ovoga na kraju i price o realnosti, cuo sam isto da mig-21 ima jako mal radarski odraz, pogotovo ako dolazi ravno iz suprotnog smjera.
Hvala za komentar. Što se tiče ovog odvajanja, mislim da do nije bila standardna procedura nego vjerojatno previd uslijed uzbuđenja. A možda je i kao vođa skupine očekivao da će ga slijediti ali očito je prenaglo skrenuo.
Priču na kraju sam ubacio jer uvijek ima komentara tipa 'ovo je tako nerealno' ali to nije utemeljeno na nečemu stvarnom već možda samo na igranju DCS-a ili gledanju nekih određenih kanala. Znam čak i da su svi komentari dobri za video ali ponekad mi se ne da objašnjavati :)
@@showtime112 meni je super to sto si dodao dodatne argumente na kraju, nisam do sada znao taj podatak da je vecina obaranja postignuto "iznenadjenjem".
@@brainfart3619 Da, još je Oswald Boelcke 1916. napisao pravila zračne borbe "Dicta Boelcke". Prvo pravilo glasi "Pokušaj osigurati prednost prije napada. Ako je moguće neka ti sunce bude za leđima". Odnosno, napadaj prvenstveno kad imaš faktor iznenađenja na svojoj strani.
@@showtime112 ti zboruvase srpsko hrvatski ?
@@kocovgoce Točno :)
M i g 21. Playing the role of bad guy for 60 years. Just like in every cowboy movie. Mig drivers always wear the black hats.🤠
Israeli fighter pilot training heavily upholded upon supposition that Israelis shall always spot the enemies first, in VMC - but ... Third Generation fighter aircrafts.
Just earlier this month-December 9th, 2021-marked the 52nd anniversary of the victories of the Egyptian Air Force in the air battles that took place over the Gulf of Suez and the Gabal 'Ataka/Ain Sukhna sectors on December 9th, 1969. On that morning, two Egyptian MiG-21 pilots engaged and shot down two enemy Mirage-IIICJ fighter aircraft, with the EAF suffering no losses in return. Later that evening, another air combat ensued when a section of EAF MiG-21 interceptors engaged a section of enemy F-4E Phantom aircraft. The F-4Es were attempting to support an enemy reconnaissance mission that had been intercepted by another section of MiG-21s. During the large dogfight that ensued, 1st Lieutenant Ahmad Atef of the EAF (shown in the photograph, circled) became the first pilot of the EAF to score a confirmed kill against the F-4E. Again, the EAF suffered no losses in return, ending the day on a high note with a 3:0 kill ratio.
On an interesting note: ten years later, when the EAF inducted the F-4E into its own inventory, Ahmad Atef became the first EAF pilot to qualify on the Phantom, thus achieving the unique distinction of being the first EAF pilot to shoot down an F-4E in combat, and the first EAF pilot to fly one in service.
Thanks for contributing with this info too!
Outstanding video. Did the Syrians had no radar missiles?
Thanks! I don't think Syrians had any radar guided missiles. Russians did priduce them but I haven't found any mention of them in Arab service.
A lot of help to the Arabs by the PAF….good historic work by you
I hope to explore that in the future. Thanks for commenting!
Some great simulations of historical events there, in spite of the amusing (albeit low key) propagandist aspect of only one side seeming to ever win. Rather than focus on the tactics of individual engagements, is there some possibility of selecting examples that show the "measure" vs "counter-measure" that typifies evolution in tactics and equipment?
There are several factors that determine on the choice of topic. Availability of historic descriptions, and availability of DCS assets. Israeli aircraft from this period are sadly not available (except the Mirage III mod which uses F-15 cockpit so I really can't show any shots of it, and A-4 Skyhawk). And for some strange reason, videos in which I fly MiGs are a lot more popular.
@@showtime112 Fair enough.
Any videos of mirages getting shot down is always worth watching. Dunno why but I never liked that plane.
You might be in a serious minority but as long as you like the video, it's fine 😁 I made another one with a similar result so you can check it out.
Koji flight setup koristiš? Odličan video btw
Hvala! Misliš na joystick? Još uvijek imam jedan stariji Logitechov model. Nije pravi hotas ali zasad služi svrsi :)
would you consider a skit covering the Air Battle over El Mansoura Egypt in this same conflict ..... Egyptian MIG pilots displayed courage and tenacity defending their airspace against Israeli F-4 and A-4 aircraft
I've been suggested that before. I probably will do it someday. I just need to do some more research on the subject.
@@showtime112 : If you can get your hands on it, I highly recommend the “Arab MiGs” series authored by Tom Cooper, David Nicolle, and a number of other co-authors and contributors. That series is worth its weight in gold.
You would think it would be a little harder than what is showed to get behind a Mirage and blow it out of the sky.
Most aerial victories are scored so that the victim never saw the attacker or only saw them too late. Personally, I don't find it surprising.
Showtime, it Would be fine to make a video where see in action an english electric Lightning. Thanks
Thanks for the suggestion. We don't have the Lightning in DCS so maybe, if someone develops it someday.
Nicely told story. Thx.
Thank you for commenting!
You are really well prepared. Falklands? Escapes of pilots from WP to The west?
The only thing Su7 does alright is going fast, I mean it does it so good it hurts its landing procedure... how did that one failed to escape...
Nicolle and Cooper don't give exact details about this shootdown except that it happened after some chasing through the hills of Golan Heights. In such cases, I make some educated guess on how it could have happened.
Did neither side have their radios and radar on
?
Mirage III didn't carry radars any more at this point. They were so useless that Israelis simply took them out and replaced by ballast. MiG-21s radar was not very useful at this altitude.
As for the radios, I don't see why that's relevant.
@@showtime112 I just find it weird that Mirage elements didn't war each other or call for help.
@@omarhanbali4953 Well, the pilot of the first Mirage Ami Lahav never ejected. He was probably killed instantly or incapacitated. When you are dead and you then spend a minute or so talking on the radio and explaining your situation, now that's weird!
20:23 how is it not possible to spot a yellow speck that is moving against a yellow background while having to fly in close formation and communicate with a control tower ?
@@nonyabuziness5082 oh, I thought they atleast got some vectors. But I guess they could have had pre-planned routes too.
Migs are flying with Sidewinders? Does DCS have Atoll missiles?
Sure. Those are Atolls. But since they are direct copies of Sidewinders, they look exactly the same. You are not the first to comment this :)
any video on battle of mansoura # the largest and longest aerial battle in jet era over 160 jets in the same space
Not yet. There should be a proper F-4E in DCS soon, there was no point in doing it sooner.
What is the name of the music 🎵 in intro?
It's Dawn of Man by Quincas Moreira.
I was going to say that this was the most successful Syrian AF mission in history, and the Israeli AF worst, but then the Syrian anti aircraft defenses stepped in and made it more of a typical Syrian AF outing.
Although Syrian success stories require a lot of digging, you can still find some occasionally. But rarely are they pure success, that's true.
I say a job well done with the tools at hand
Thank you for the comment!
This was 50 years ago, so it's just as bad/tough as trying to reconstruct battle actions from WW2.
Maybe so. However, information from WWII seem to be a lot more abundant that from this period.
Sve bolje i bolje!
Hvala! I meni se čni da napredujem (skromno će on) 😁
WOW NEVER KNEW THE MIG COULD KILLED MIRAGES. BUT I WONDER HOW ARAB SHOT DOWN THEIR OWN JET FIGHTERS?
17:20 should i laugh or cry
Depends how you feel about the sides involved in this war. 'Friendly' fire incidents are tragic.
You would think the Syrians would put IFF transponders in the MiGs
I believe they had them but those things are not 100 percent reliable and many other factors can go wrong. They also shot down several of their Iraqi allies.
It's fair to say that all fighter pilots are equal, training and being in a superior aircraft is the game changer.
Agreed. The only difference between Michael Jordan and me is training too.
MIG 21 BEST
It seems that they did not have proper enemy missile warning n friend n foe detection systems back in those days
Radar Warning Receivers were still quite new and not all the aircraft had them. Not that it helped with IR homing missiles. As for IFF, it's still a bit unreliable. Patriot missiles have never shot down an enemy airplane but they shot down two friendly ones.
No, sorry, do not accept this story! As far as the planes being third gen and being difficult to fly I cannot vouch for the Mig 21 but that was definitely NOT the case with the Mirage III, she was a sweet flying plane, not a high workload on the pilot.
So, you are basically saying that every Mirage pilot had a maximum situational awareness at any time? They were impossible to surprise? They felt the enemy presence in The Force?
Mogu li ja kontrolirati tenkove? Želim se malo spustiti iz frogfoota
To je moguće ali moraš imati modul koji se zove Combined Arms. S njime se onda može upravljati vozilima, protu-avionskim topovima itd. Nisam se puno time bavio, nakratko samo isprobao kad je bio free to play period.
@@showtime112 Aha, hvala!
Тhe old German tactics as used by me 163 take off near enemy aircraft and surprise
Where are the Israeli F-4 Phantoms?
It appears they were not present at this particular time in this particular place.
Hey dude! What about the time the Pakistani Air Force took on the Israelis?
You mean Saiful Azam? He was flying a Hunter. If we get a Hunter in DCS, it would be interesting to do.
@@showtime112 sttar alvi alos PAF pilot killed iaf mirage on golan hights
Was this the only Egyptian victory of the war? Weren't many in this conflict from my understanding. You certainly have an emphasis on the non-west combatants.
It wasn't the only one although it is very hard to estimate an exact number. I really wouldn't say I emphasize non-western combatants. I just offer that point of view as well (which is very rare). But if you look at all the videos, you will see that most of them are from the Western or Israeli PoV. Among other things, because they are much better documented and accessible.
the syrian arab air force take-off against israel in october,6,1973. the yom kippur began.
As a matter of fact Mirages at that time were already wearing camouflage/
Yeah, that's true. But there's no camouflage Israeli skin for the Mirage III mod yet. Hopefully, someone will make it :)
No IFF? No tail warning radar? But, yes, I buy it.
A 'tail warning radar' ?!?!? I suggest before challenging someone, you at least first learn the proper terminology. The thing is called Radar Warning Receiver. And no, Mirage IIIC didn't have it. Even if it did, it would still provide no warning against heat seeking missiles.
Most air-to-air kills in history were achieved with the element of surprise and the victims never knew they were being attacked or only became aware when it was too late.
Israel fought with Phantom F 4 E and Sky Hawks. Not Mirages. Israeli Mirages were deactivated few years earlier.
What?!?! Just where did you get that information?!? Or maybe you come from a parallel universe because in this universe, this is sooooo not true😁 Seriously, who told you that?
I was there stupid. Syrian Air Force reserve Engine technician.
Oh I worked on the MIG 21 engine at Mezza Air Base
@@imadjazairi3423 Then you either don't remember well or you mistook MIrages with some older types such as Mystere or Ouragan. Mirages remained in service until early 1980s. And every single source that you can possibly find clearly says that Mirage III was being widely used during the 1973 War. At the time, they were used in air-to-air role exclusively because Phantom and Skyhawk was more capable in air-to-ground. I can list dozens of sources confirming that.
@@imadjazairi3423 Very arrogant to call somebody stupid, especially when your side was defeated. Oh, as for mirages, they were very active in shooting your pilots out of the sky. How did it feel when the airplane you worked on and the pilots you knew personally never came back?
Mig-21 je idalje moze da posluzi da uništavanje tenkova i pesadije, ali ne da se sukobljava sa avionima tipa f-16. Mi smo osposobili jedan mig-21 za obuku pilota i na kraju nam se obilo o glavu jer su poginula dva vrhunska pilota.
😟
Jedan dobar dio svojih DCS sati naleta sam napravio na ovom avionu. Traži dosta koncentracije. Motor se lako ugasi ako ne paziš, ne voli visoke napadne kuteve, brzina slijetanja je velika, kod polijetanja lako zapneš za tlo onim stabilizatorom s donje strane. Ipak je on jako davno dizajniran. Jesi ti počeo sa svojim letenjem u stvarnosti?
@@showtime112 Jos ne, trenutno se sprovodi selektivna obuka na kolegama koji su presli na avione super galeb g-4. Ja bio trebao da pocnem da letim u aprilu ili maju na avionu lasta 95.
@@Огњен-б8я Onda vježbaj na DCS-u dotad 😉
@@showtime112 Dali ti imaš neke veze sa letačkom strukom ili si samo entuzijast?
kad ce VR? :)
Virtualna stvarnost? Ne tako skoro 😁
@@showtime112 skupljas donacije? XDXD
@@domovinivjerni Pa razmišljam da otvorim Patreon account 😉
@@showtime112 dobro... ja nemam ni kune :)
@@domovinivjerni Samo eure :)
Made video in Indo-Pak war in 71
I made one for now. But probably, there will be some more in the future.
@@showtime112 65, 71 and 27th Feb also.... Pakistani Tea was fantastic for Indians...
😁😁😁
ua-cam.com/video/Jm4aIbd-NDs/v-deo.html
@@showtime112 Sqn ldr Sattar Alvi was the one who successfully shot down first Israeli Mirage 3 at Golan heights during 67 Arab Israel War... Later PAF pilot Saif ul Azam also shot down 5 Israeli jets and became the Ace pilot of PAF...
ua-cam.com/video/ny-pupE_HqI/v-deo.html
can you make india v pakistan? thank you
Thank you for your comment! I intend to make some videos from Indo-pakistani conflicts in the future. I've only done one for now but it's a very rich field to draw good topics for videos from.
Mr. Ashish Raval, Hello.
Sorry to jump inbetween your comment. I want you and fellow nationals to remember just one thing while you make request.. these are DCS.. videos. They never reflect the true capacity of planes, weapons or airforce tactics...as all are secrets specially when in service.
Yes they can be used for animation reactment of historic battles provided the information battle is clear from all sides.
Never use these games for actual comparitive analysis.
I have seen many guys in comment section of several DCS players channels, trying to draw conclusion about actual planes on the basis on these DCS games.It can create serious issues.
Regards
This is so true. Even if the aircraft specification are accurate, there's so much more that determines the outcome of battles and that's not well simulated. I often have to use various tricks to replicate historic results. If I just make the initial setup and then play the scenario, I could never ever have the exact historic outcome.
Funny thing, your comment was in the 'held for review' section and I've only now noticed it. I think the reason might be the lack of space between words 'games' and 'it' which made it look like a web address :)
12th! 😁
Congratulations! I guess this time of release is suitable to you 😁
@@showtime112 Oh-yeeaah! 👍🏻
@@PappaBear_yt I'll keep that in mind :)
@@showtime112 😎
So, according to this "book", were Israeli pilots basically sitting ducks? Really? Let's remember that the guys won the war (despite the enemy's ruse to attack on holiday) and all the others. And it certainly wasn't with that kind of flight ...
No. The book focuses more on pointing out that Arabs were not just sitting ducks. When I first read it, I had trouble accepting this concept. And yes, Israel won this war too. But it was by the closest margin. And Israeli aces caused havoc again but nor all Israeli pilots were aces. They had mediocre pilots too. Or just unlucky ones.
So that means what? They didn't get shot down? Just because 99% videos on these matters are from US equipment users doesn't meant every lost plane was luck/technical failure.
Found the Israeli
@@showtime112 it wasn’t by the closest margins. The Arabs were defeated! Syria lost almost 1000 tanks with crews. The general staff headquarters in Damascus was bombed to bits, the number of airplanes they lost was staggering. And they never made it passed the Hokan heights into Israel. 9 years later they lost they’re entire SAM force in one day! Close Marvin my ass.
@@arip9234 I meant compared to other wars such as 1967 and 1982. And it's true that in the final phase of the 1973 war Israelis were very successful but throughout most of the war, it was extremely uncertain. Attacks against enemy airfields didn't work, attacks against SAMs didn't work, airplane loss rates were way too high. The 1982 Lebanon war seems like a walk in the park compared to this.
And maybe I'm focusing mostly on the aerial warfare because I know a lot less about ground warfare.
However, I appreciate your comment!
Great job by egyptian air defence. 😁
Syrian. But they had a few more such mishaps. Their Iraqi allies lost more planes to Syrian SAMs than to the Israelis.
ONE of the worst outcomes is when you are shot down by your own. When you have done your duty towards your country and are supposedly safe, you get a shocker of your life. But, be that as it may, mistakes happen and in the heat of battle, many are confused. They have to get over it and go on nevertheless.
All true. I have a particular interest in friendly fire incidents.