Pros and Cons of Studying Multiple Disciplines - Draftsmen S1E07
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
- Marshall and Stan discuss the pros and cons of studying multiple disciplines and their effect on learning art. A caller wants to know if the overhand grip can be applied to drawing with a digital stylus. Both Draftsmen have “thangs” that help them stay physically fit and active.
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ABOUT DRAFTSMEN
Stan Prokopenko and Marshall Vandruff are art instructors. If you love the arts, particularly the craft of drawing and painting and image-making… and you want to level up your skills or even make a living with your skills, we are here to answer your questions. We’re here to offer you advice, refer you to our resources, share your love of the craft and maybe inspire you! Learn to Draw - www.proko.com Marshall Vandruff - marshallart.com. Subscribe to the podcast at bit.ly/Draftsme...
ABOUT PROKO:
Instructional How to Draw videos for artists. My drawing lessons are approachable enough for beginners and detailed enough for advanced artists. My philosophy is to teach timeless concepts in an entertaining way. I believe that when you are having fun, you learn better. I take pride in producing high quality videos that you will enjoy watching and re-watching.
CREDITS:
Hosts - Stan Prokopenko (www.stanprokope...), Marshall Vandruff (www.marshallart...)
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Editing - Charlie Nicholson, Katrina Collins
Audio Engineer - Brandon Storer
Intro Animation - Cody Shank (codyshank.com/)
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How have multiple disciplines hurt or helped you with your art?
Practicing boxing helped me to focus on training on every detail repeating the same movement thousand of times, but beside that to be an artist you need to connect ideas in new way and to connect ideas you have to have that ideas in the first place. Oh and learning to draw improved my writing to, someone told me I'm "cinematographic"
Started learning about 3 weeks ago so you know I'm knee deep in so many different things
I'm interested in many things: drawing, painting, animating, writing stories, camerawork, photography. I feel guilty not being able to choose one thing to specialize. It feels like you need to specialize in order to reach a level in which you can compete with other artists. But nowadays I feel more and more like I don't need to focus only on one thing, I guess I'm a person who gets energy from many different things in the visual arts.
@@astrol4b
Boxing drawing and writing scripts, those are my 3 hobbies too pal. I work in film too but rather be able to draw manga for a living.
I started out as a 3D artist and used to struggle at translating what I see in anatomy books into my digital sculpts until I picked up digital and traditional drawing and painting... Photography has helped with my knowledge of lighting and composition... And creative writing has improved my storytelling in my art.
Wow this podcast is getting more and more relevant for me with each new episodes. Thank you so much.
stan it's spying us to get the topics so on point haha i mean every podcast hits the right info! its been really useful
You chaps might well be one of the best things on the internet at the moment. It’s awesome to be living in a time where UA-cam etc enables 'narrow casting' where material like yours can find its audience. There’s nothing else out there that discusses art in quite the way you do. Major kudos. As someone who mostly draws in isolation you bring context and community.
200% agree.
Tom Kirby-Green was going to say the same thing! It is the best time to be alive!
Check out Bobby Chui's "Chuistream" and he interviews many artists in the same style as this
Completely agree. I'm not immersed in an art community and this show is a godsend.
Right now everyone is drawing in isolation 😅
could listen to marshall for hours
Hi! Im an Art Instructor from Corrientes, Argentina. I just wanna say that this podscasts series are solid gold to teachers/artists like me. I have listened evert single one of your shows several times and even recomended it to my students at art college and to my highschool students. You guys are the most perfect example of art instructors. Never hiding the valious art knowledge and wisdom that it is so hard and time consuming to achieve. And encouraging young artists to get better and never give up. I love you guys and I hope your incredible podcast never end.
Saludos desde Argentina! And sorry for my poor english haha☠
Uf y ¿qué enseñas?¿ También dibujo anatómico y eso?
@@etdle7 enseño de todo. Pero específicamente ahora doy clases de grabado y dibujo
saludos de mendoza soy un estudiante en artes visuales jaja
@@GokuFlyfam saludos!!! 🖤🙂🤘
@@jessicamoreno1303 Hola!! En donde enseñas? Yo tambièn vivo en Ctes, y actualmente estoy siendo auto-didacta, y me preguntaba si no dabas algun curso fuera de facultad sobre anatomìa, figure drawing o cosas asì
Yes please discuss the book “how to draw on the right side of your brain” .
Agreed.
This right and left brain theory seems to be pseudo science to me
@@pneumonoultramicroscopicsi4065 it is. Its a pretty good book (as I've heard) but don't let the right and left thing be the focus.
I have a longer comment, but here's the summary: the newly released "Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World" by David Epstein thoroughly addresses the topic of working in multiple disciplines, and concludes that having a breadth of knowledge is a vastly under-appreciated strength in the modern world. It is a FANTASTIC (potentially life-changing) book -- I've already bought it for a couple of friends, and will be gifting it to a few more!
Comments in regard to specific topics in this podcast:
- Stan cites pursuing many different disciplines over the course of his life. However, as he notes, he didn't pursue them all at the same time. He focused on one or two, then moved on. This is in keeping w/ Epstein's recommendation that we conduct personal "experiments" -- immersing ourselves in one activity, seeing how it fits for us, then moving on to something else that looks like it might fit us better. When we focus on something, it changes the way we see the world, and we really learn what it feels like to "do the thing". If we don't focus for a period of time, if we keep waffling and not *really* trying something on for size, we'll never know how well it fits us.
- Marshall talks about how the studies produced by following Nicolaides' book would not be impressive to show to family and friends, but that the exercises are still worthwhile in the long run. This idea is captured in Chapter 4 of "Range", where Epstein makes the strong case that classes where we are able to achieve perfect grades -- grades that impress our family -- are often not classes where we learn much. Conversely, classes where we struggle, where it is difficult to demonstrate mastery, are often-times the crucible for durable learning and future success.
I imagine the same could be said of art classes where in one class, you are struggling to "feel" the gesture of a figure and capture it on your paper, producing week after week of messy drawings, versus a class where you draw from photographs using a grid, simply reproducing tones like a copy machine. All of your family and friends will ooo and ahh about the "photorealistic" drawing -- but what did you really learn in that class?
- there are MANY other aspects of having a breadth of knowledge covered in the book. I highly recommend it!
I've been drawing and painting, learning guitar, and practicing multiple foreign languages. It's been weird because I really never felt artistic growing up. But learning about delebritate practice has been so amazingly helpful for really sitting down and focusing on one thing at a time. There is a book called Effortless Mastery that's basically about learning to meditate while you work so you're able to fully focus, authenticity improve, and work towards becoming a master in whatever field your studying (thought the book is specifically about music, it really applies to everything).
Back 3 years later xD I've been painting a little bit (waterscapes & landscapes), currently getting back into drawing, intermediate guitarist, and studying ASL, Spanish, and Japanese
I'm 48 , took up drawing and painting again in the spring of 2018, started learning to play the bass in 2015 (didn't really practise much in 2017) and I'm currently studying to become a teacher! I love doing multiple disciplines because I can move between them, when I get stock or demotivated (for a moment). And at one point these disciplines could melt together and become something that I would make a living from. Your Podcast is gold ❤️
I'm a little bit surprised you didn't mention Salvador Dalí here. That guy did EVERYTHING! Painting, drawing, sculpture, photography, film making, jewelry design, clothing design, business logos, commercial ads, architecture, furniture design, he gave out a cook book....
To me, he is the greatest artist of all time!
In my experience, working in 3ds max early in my teens helped me understanding perspective- how light works with reflex-global illumination, artschool painting and sculpting classes helped me with understanding 3d forms of anatomy and colour theory, drawing little comics as a hobby- while my teachers didint like it- helped me with stylisation and it all comes together indeed!
I'm just sad I missed out of the whole coding thing as a kid.
Also playing D&D as a kid helped a lot of writers to train their creative side it seems- most of my favourite new cartoon creators were playing it.
So many things can come together -help shape other skills.
This issue has plagued me for years and I've come to the conclusion that trying new mediums and disciplines can only help me. I'm pretty traditional and love to draw and paint in oil, mostly portraits, but I dabble in water color and gouache and have become pretty skilled in all of them. Most recently, at the age of 45, I bought an iPad Pro and have been illustrating in Procreate. I NEVER wanted to do digital art, but I absolutely love it!
I am a polymath: ART (sketching in charcoal, painting in pastels, watercolors and oils) and COMPUTER PROGRAMMING (Python, JavaScript/HTML/CSS)
In my opinion, we can learn everything (a lot of disciplines) nevertheless, there is one condition : do 1 thing at a time, so FOCUS
Season 2 will begin on April 7 and on it’s own UA-cam channel… Be sure to subscribe!
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Now I'm curious to know what Marshall thinks about Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain!
same here! i start that book but i find it teaches you to mindlessly copy rather than actually learning to draw.
Me too! I have the book, sitting and collecting dust, not knowing if I should go through it entirely or toss it...
@@pancakeandcrepe I bought it when i was a teenager, and she has you drawing contours of objects without looking at the paper. It did not seem helpful after I spent several dozen hours of this. But who knows, the brain is a crazy thing, perhaps if I kept after it, I would be a Gi right now. I would rather spend the grind time drawing lines and ellipse's from the shoulder, or rotating boxes and cylinders on the page over and over. It just seems like a better use of time.
I also want to know. I found the book realy interesting and some times i read some parts again.
@@DrCoffeePatch I've been working through it and it's been rather fun imo. I've noticed alot more things I wasn't aware of until reading it. But honestly it's not just about studying one book and using it as the "art bible" do or die. You already have it, read it understand the methods & teachings maybe you'd like doing some of the exercises or use some methods.
As for the other comment about "mindlessly copying", you're not putting a piece of paper over an image and tracing the drawing. You're looking at an image more deeply and focused & putting the line down as you see it. Portrait drawing, line drawing, putting graphite down on the paper making highlights with your eraser, etc.
Next book I'm looking forward to learning from would be Fun with a pencil by Andrew loomis and another book of his Drawing the head and hands. Am also wanting to learn color as well. And also for even more fun I've got a stencil book of Sailor Jerry's flash art from a convention recently and drawing those have been really cool!
P.S. You can honestly go through the book without a viewfinder if you didn't have the resources or wanted to use it. Don't stress over it!
Would also love a more in-depth review of Marshall and Proko's opinion of that book & more!
the thumbnails always make me smile then laugh without fail. so happy this podcast is a thing.
I love doing multiple disciplines cause I believe we are born with many talents.
When you study multiple disciplines, you find that there is a lot of overlap and repeated learning patterns across multiple disciplines. You learn better how to learn, thereby increasing your ability to learn.
How to avoid mastering none of them? I am kind of afraid of that
Multi-Discipline has undoubtedly helped me. It was my initial interest in weight lifting and jiu-jitsu before drawing that taught me about the movements and limitations of limbs and muscles connections. Which is why I think the anatomical studies don't seem daunting to me. A prior discipline has cemented an anchor point to work off of!
Haha Im doing also Jiu Jitsu and find myself frequently comparing drawing with it, as there are quite some parallels. As you say you build up muscle memory in both, to a level that you cannot tell anybody how exactly you are doing things. Even reflexes may be found in drawing
[Long one] YES YES YES ! As I stated in previous podcast comment I'm so happy that someone like you guys mentions mr. Nicolaides book.
I'm in my early 30's and I'm currently studying the book.
This is my 2nd book related to learning to draw, 1st that I went through was "Drawing on the right side of the brain" by B.Edwards.
I'm not really aware of its flaws but what I'm really greateful for is that it convinced/showed me after 20 years of thoughts like "hell if I can't draw any good then I can't draw at all" that I was wrong.
Interesting thing is that Kimon Nicolaides book was actually first that I found about, but I was turned off by the seriousness of the exercises. I need to say that my level of skill at that time was that of kindergarten kids, that is the time when I have stopped to draw and had my urges to draw ever since, so one didn't had to do much to scare me off.
I've decided that I`ll go back to K.Nicolaides book after studying B.Edwards.
So I did...
At first I was scared then I was terrified then I felt happines as Marshall was describing K.Nicolaides book, as it seemed like a bash at first and what comes after is a glorious promotion of the book.
I feel I can't give justice to that book, I'm simply happy that it got into my hands.
My level of experience in the field is seriously small, yet those are my personal feelings, feelings of a student, an amateur.
I'm mesmerized with outcomes of each exercise, I really do enjoy looking at them, from gesture through form to drapery, and I actually have someone who wants to hang few of them on the wall, and another one told me that some were truly beautiful ( madness.... crazy are they ? )
That gives me a ton of strength to persist and pushes me forward in honing the skill.
Now I'm at the mid section of the book, and I can't recommend it enough.
My journey with learning to draw could have been more fruitful if I only spent more time on training, I try to do my best in that regard, and instead falling into regrets, I look forward to do better next day.
There is too much I want to say, I hope that mumbling haven't bored you to dead :)
In short, I LOVE IT, buy that book and study it.
One of the better decisions in my life.
Cheers o/
I know this is an old comment but I can't help myself. Would you recommend it to a beginner?
Great episode guys! Marshall, if you ever do the Nikolaides exercises experiment, I´m in for it! (I´m a bit like you, a professional artist with the youth years behind... but with so much drive to draw better and better. I´m in for working out the time for the 373 hrs of drills (and maybe we can train our hand to hold the pencil properly in the process!). When do we start? hehe
I've never been into podcasts, just never really liked them. You are literally the only podcast I listen to and cannot wait each week for a new episode. Thanks so much for doing it! Hope you both keep it up for a very very long time!
Great stuff touching on the downfalls of sitting all day and how it can affect your health and the power of walking. I'd love it if you could expand a little more on that topic for all of us out there with bad backs due to this occupation.
man Marshall keeps bringing up all these old new masters/teachers that I have to look and start studying.
To the multiple disciplines question: I've been digitally sculpting and pencil/pen drawing more intentionally and interchangeably in the past year (instead of pouring all my energy into one or the other) and I've found they strengthen each other noticeably. The sculpting makes me more aware of space and structure, visualizing the depth of an object in a more tactile way (even though it's virtual) and I bring this awareness into drawing. The drawing helps me iterate ideas faster and create new shapes and motifs I want to translate into sculpting, which I notice makes me feel more excited to sit down in front of the screen again- the screen burnout is very real as Marshall has mentioned! I love having the play dynamic between the two very different mediums. Thanks for these chats, they are really nice for keeping my brain stimulated while I'm working on more tedious projects especially while working alone for hours on end!
I would love to hear a podcast on Nicolaides. Please give us a program on this.
Kevin the Toy Smuggler here. I've been blasted my hole life about how I need to choose only one art medium. I sketch, oil paint, 21 years as a pro wrestler, 9 comic books, actor, toy sculptor, writer, and film director. But I stuck to my guns for the past 16 years, and I found that all these medium as diverse as they are complement 1 or more of the others which has enabled me to see and understand the bigger picture or world of art. It help me from burn out, by giving me options to do another medium when I'm stuck or hung up on one. It also has help me get entertainment jobs because I was skilled in multiple mediums, " one stop shopping" for the client. But it took several years to understand how to balance it all, but a few years ago it was if a light bulb came on in my head and I could see the relationship of all these mediums as clear as day. I end this with this, " One who challenges oneself to the brink of failure, will one day rise up and meet success face to face." #ToySmuggler
I can't remember what I did yesterday and Marshall remembers a conversation he had 30 years ago. This man is wonderful
Love listening to both of you and appreciate the conversational interaction/connection!! Love the different but related subject discussions. The best part is getting to know both of you as you share your personal stories! Thank yo so much!! Inspired!!
Proko -everything you were interested in, or (practiced silently)
led to this seamless UA-cam transition.
Mastery takes patience & practice. I salute you.
Thank you both so much for making me feel a whole lot LESS crazy. I thought I was alone in being interested in drastically different areas.
I feel like the solution to the "taking up too much time" problem is to separate things you are most dedicated to/what will benefit your ambitions most, from things you still want to improve on but are not as essential to your overall goals. Love the podcast, thanks!
Great conversation. I can relate to the multiple discipline route through life and am around the same age as Marshal. While growing up I was in love with animals and ultimately became a self employed farmer by the age of 19. I also worked in a sawmill, doing logging where I fell in love with the forest and natural world. And I’m a woman. Ultimately I sold my business and then took on a career working for Fish and Wildlife. Now I’m retired and and learning drawing and painting in order to express my love for animals and the natural world around me... and am also involved in photography. Life can be a wonderful process. It’s as simple as focusing on what you love...
I'd love if these were longer. Keepem coming.
Marshall's lived long enough to prop his feet anywhere he wants, I reckon. I can't wait to get old.
I studied Illustration and Musical Composition.
Visual arts helped me think of music in a very concrete and spatial manner.
And in return, music taught me to think of drawing and painting very abstractly.
Physical activtiy is also a must. I was also following a very sedentary routine and started experimenting pain in my back, shoulders and hips.
I started a workshop on argentinian folk dances. It helped me get back in motion and taught me a lot about movement and rythmic perception. Having understood and connected with that backbone of music, it also helped me grasp the importance of good visual fundamentals.
So if you have an open mind and are willing to put in the effort to make the connections, it is a never ending feedback loop.
I do Dialysis every other day and draw at the same time while on treatment.I was never really good at it and it took lots of concentration trying to get better at it. Now I can put the two together and use valuable time on both.I rate you guys 20 🌟✨you guys are such a dynamic duo with always so much good knowledge 🙏🏻.
Listening to Marshall talk makes me think of a grandpa I've never had talk about cool things I've never known and just generally leave me excited about life
I know he'd be happy to hear that.
I'll commit to it, Marshall! He might never know, but I will be with him as I do these exercises - Marshall will be my teacher on this journey, even if he is doing these exercises in the future.
This episode is 6 months old and maybe you won't even see this now, but I wanted to comment about the standing desk.
I would suggest finding a balance between standing and sitting. I setup a standing desk at work, as a graphic designer, I used it for probably two years and because of the lack of elbow support from a chair, I absolutely wrecked my arms and shoulders. I have spent the past two years recovering.
It started out with wrist pain, which I thought was CPS but it according to a doctors test it wasn't. At times during and after a workday my wrists were so bad they felt like they were on fire. Eventually I tried massage therapy which was a success. My forearms, biceps, shoulders were all constantly fatigued from stuck fibers, and working out those kinks has made a huge difference.
I've since gone back to a regular sitting desk, using proper ergonomic setup, with taking properly timed breaks each hour to get up, stretch, grab water, etc to get moving somewhat during the day because I do not want to go through that again.
Love the podcast guys. Listened to it on the train this morning now I'm watching the video. I listen to the shows over and over and each time I pick up on something new... or maybe it's just sinking in a little deeper. Keep it up, thanks!
Picking up writing again has had a very positive effect on my art, and my mindset in general. When I was a child, I pretty much used to either draw, play pretend or tell stories, which became writing when I, well. learned how to write. Silly little things, But I wrote my picture books and drew them. The writing and story part I completely lost when I went into my apprenticeship and started to work afterwards. And the connection to my art suffered a lot. I lost interest. be it practice or work related. Something was missing. A while back I was drawing on a lifestream. I had lost a bet and had to draw something "stereotypical girly" with lots of pink and unicorns and so on. With some input of the viewers there where some flying, violett hippos as well. When someone asked what that was all about, I started to tell the story of the image as it came to me on the spot... and I enjoyed the whole drawing this as I hadn't for years. Since then I picked up writing again, "playing pretend " in form of daydreaming came soon after as well, and all three: art, writing and letting my mind run wild work together in a very harmonious way. I actually get worse when the balance between them is out of wack.
So yeah.. long story short: writing as secondary disciplin is definatly helping my art.
Oh and as for exercise: extremely helpful! When I work on something and run into an impass, I go for a walk and I at least go for a one hour evening walk each day. Helps clear the fog of the brain. I do HEMA as a general sporting activity. Since I started and got more fit, I recognized that I could focus better and longer than before.
Thank you, it’s so nice to hear from your experiences. For the longest time I thought I need to focus on only one thing, and not able to do that was really frustrating! In the end I gave in and now I am really glad I did all the things (admin, sales, customer service, web design/development, and now back to art along with other creative activities like photography, craft, writing, graphic design, etc.). I finally start to seeing the benefits as I start my own business, because all the skills I have are hand in hand to each other. It took me a long time to learn that everyone’s path is different, and I should just follow my instincts. :)
I like to paint in Watercolor, in Dry Pastel and Oil Painting. I love what I do, keep me always in action during 365 days (during all year) almost ! As a self-taught painter !
The thing about the grip between pencil and the stylus not carrying over is because -- well, of the technology, but also because of the shape of the tip of the pencil, of how you use the lead to draw with it almost flat on the page to get broad shaded areas, or almost vertically to get very thin lines.
You probably kind of could, though, with an apple pencil. I have never tried one of those.
allluckyseven I can confirm on that - I use an Apple Pencil with an overhand hold frequently, and for certain brushes it does give a very similar feel to using a real pencil in the same way.
I would love to see whole episodes devoted to niccolaides and the drawing on the right side of the brain books.
Wow I’m glad Marshall asked that question, I’ve been trying to use the overhand grip with a stylus for a week now
In 40 minutes I get exposed and thrown in to so many interesting direction. Like I could follow a year of Nicolaides after hearing your podcast. I love the funny and silly way you express admiration for each other, your stories. I even love to read the comments
I never thought anything would get me out of the couch watching the Kardashians and repeating the same episodes for times a week. I find extreme value in every thing you guys share.
I came in 2019 in hopes of proko to wear more shirts and he has delivered. This year has been a great year so far.
I've been binge watching Draftsmen for quite sometime now and I JUST NOTICED YOUR THUMBNAILS 😂😂😂😂
I am not lying when I say that I just had the craziest coincidence in my life, I was watching this podcast and at the 20:14 timestamp when Stan said:"It's time for an ad." I literally immediatley got an ad on youtube, wtf that is insane.
I have always been creative any medium. But I put service to others first and spent 22 years as a grade school/special ed teacher. Now is the time for art.
Best podcast yet. I have terrible ADHD (recently medicated) so I’ve been doing everything and anything my whole life. Now that I’m able to focus a bit more, I’ve come to realize that cross training in different creative disciplines has helped me tremendously. However, at some point you need to decide if you want to obtain mastery which, in my opinion, is less about a “10,000 hour rule” and more about coming up with a plan for success and sticking to it.
It’s also recognizing that, if you do take the time to master something, you’re not just that. Mastering something may seem narrow focused but it too has a cross over effect. For example, someone who masters residential electricity is still unconsciously training their brain to also maybe do carpentry, demo work, etc.
Yet you can be immensely valuable never mastering anything and just getting really good at many things.
This is all separate from your outputs though. Yes, Rockwell was only an illustrator but that’s just judging his work output. Truth is, he was probably great at many other disciplines too, just never produced work for them.
That’s the key difference I think we need to recognize. I’ve met many designers who create awesome animations by accident almost but will never produce any recognizable motion design work of their own.
We are in creative industries where mastery doesn’t really exist I suppose. And if we can embrace and learn that we should always be learning I think cross training broadly but also having a single focus will make our tool kits amazing.
After years of sitting during animation, sketching and computer work I got my Ashtanga Yoga TTC and it completely revolutionized my approach to drawing. I was more conscious of my posture, my breath capacity increased and I noticed any time I was hunching or putting excess pressure on my lower back and neck. Now I still sit which I work, but take frequent breaks to stretch, and do Yoga as often as possible for realignment and deepening body awareness.
It would be SO AWESOME if Marshall would be willing to do an episode on Kimon Nikolaides art curriculum and his recommendation on how to go about it. I’m in my mid 30s and just starting to learn how to draw. It’s the perfect time to do this type of intensively methodical exercises. PLEASE MARSHALL!!! Pretty pleeeeeaaaase...... I am up for that 375 hours!
DrCoffeePatch I’d be very interested in seeing that too. (And by the way, that’s awesome you’re studying drawing! 😎👍)
I found the 'multiple disciplines' stuff resonated with me. Myself, I came from an art background of commercial design and a personal interest in computer automation, then worked a decade of game development as a 2d/3d technical artist jack-of-all-art tasks. I love just about anything else with a creative, problem solving nature, and although I currently work a day job in a 'people industry', I still plan on rolling all these accumulated skills into a cohesive 'thang' because I can certainly see a huge benefit of having multiple disciplines under one's belt. Cheers Lads, for another sterling podcast ;)
I love you Stan💞, this is all I can say after getting the notification of releasing your latest chat with Marshall 🔥
All of these episodes have been phenomenal, so helpful, so inspiring. Thanks for making this 🙏🏽
I was so into this podcast that I felt why is this one so short. Then I see the time and I'm like oh well that's ok.
I'm so happy that I found this podcast, thank you guys!
I started to think about art as a professional at 28-29 Yo. Digital painting and drawing got me. But I hadn't the money to go in an art school and I didn't have a visual artistic background neither. So I took a 16 months 3D animation program (no need to know how to draw). And now ... . I'm learning how to draw, by myself. I spent the half of the last lockdown trying to work on a short movie, blending writing, 3D and 2D animation. And I discovered pixel art and grafitti …All those amazing things are overwhelming. Staying focused is difficult sometimes when your path isn't clear. But someone said to me "procrastinate from art with art isn't really bad". It's helping in some way to accept this unfocused state of mind.
I am a university student studying computing science. I'm getting close to finishing my degree, but many years of learning computing science theory has tired me out a bit. I like to build things with technology and code, but the math and theory of computing science is difficult. I really like drawing, but anxious thoughts about not being good at it kept me from pursuing it earlier. But recently I reached a breaking point where I realized that I absolutely must have drawing in my life. So now I wake up early to draw and then code during the day. Both drawing and coding are very demanding skills, so it's difficult to do both. But I've found that taking drawing seriously has been very rewarding for me so far because I'm finally giving attention to the large artistic portion of my identity. For many years I was neglecting the pencil. I thought STEM and art could not coexist. I was afraid that drawing wouldn't be worthwhile because I wasn't committed to it 110% since high school. But it's so, so much better to not be torn between these two parts of me anymore. It's a kind of existential hell that maybe other people can relate to. I am a computer scientist. And I am an artist.
Thanks for the show, guys. Every new episode gives me courage to forge ahead. Much love from Hugh. (No, my real name is not Marcus Aurelius.)
I gave this podcast episode 5 stars
I'm studying art and programming. Fun times. I have the impression my brain would punch me if it could.
But my main objective is to make games with my art, so programming will help a lot. It is very interesting, despite me being an artist foremost.
I am quite similar, studying a computer related field(Information Technology) at uni while being a self taught artist. Ive always wanted to make games as a child however I now prefer to be a comic artist than a game developer and the only reason why I am at uni is because parents are "yu ned colege to be succesful". I am quite glad though that I have learned programming, its quite fun and perhaps there might be a time where I decide to be a game dev
@@blackoutgenez Perhaps it is to soon for me to say, since I began to learn code just months ago, but I feel there is an intrinsic value in learning programming. I feel like it is helping me develop my abstraction skill, which is useful even in other areas.
Seems to me that art and programming are a great combination for knowledge's sake.
Best of luck in your art journey and your comic projects, dude! I'm sure your programming skills will be a great asset also!
Mindful walking helps you create that "muscle mind connection" it's very good because it makes the exercise more intense and increases tension on the muscles you're using, because you're thinking about them and how they're working. That's why the gyms have so many mirrors. To create mind muscle connection.
I really love this question! Something thats run through my mind on a weekly basis
I usually bake, and it helps me to structure my time. For example, I make a dough and let it rise for a few hours, and I draw during this time, I need to shape the bread and let it rise again, so I have another couple of hours.
I used to really love playing piano because I had a little talent in it but one day I realized I stopped drawing in order to play piano, that's when I dropped piano and focused completely on my art. It's been almost 5 years since then and I couldn't be more fulfilled! ❤
The older I get the more pleasure I find in concentrating on what I'm doing, noticing each nuance of all aspects of the moment.
Things that seem so obvious after you hear someone else say them.
I've been a musician for 35 years now, an artist for 3. I've really cut back dramatically on my time playing music due to my art studies. It seems every time I get in an art rut, I mope around for a while and eventually end up playing some music. Hearing the Blake/Bowie story, I see that I've been missing the obvious here! I need to set up all my music stuff and use it as a foil to my art studies.
When I get frustrated I can't get something right on the easel, just pick up a guitar and play for a few hours! Remind myself what hours, days, years of study can lead to, and relax...all with the same simple mechanism. Nice!
I think that pursuing multiple disciplines will broaden you, and this will feed into creative pursuits. Just focusing on one thing will make you really good technically, but probably not feed into your creativity.
both your banter is just the best
After school I didn't really know what to do with my life and since nobody near me pushed me in a specific direction, I learned accounting for 4 years. After that I found a job in a small ad agency for smaller businesses. There I was doing vector based illustrations and layouts until opening my own small agency doing basically the same for 10 years. Then I met my wife, married, moved to China and took up teaching languages. Privately I always dabbled in vector art, pixel art, most recently mapping for Doom as well as learning how to use Blender.
Apart from accounting most of the different disciplines I learned over the years I could combine in some way. Especially Blender or any 3D rendering program is highly recommended for anyone in arts, imho.
I my fav medium is pen and ink but I also paint w/acrylics, watercolors, oils. I do DIY projects for my cats, make guilts crochet, and paint miniatures for my DnD games, and enjoy creative writing.... I don't drive so walking/ public transportation have always been my way of travel and I also find it relaxing and great for invigorating my ideals...so cool that others have discovered it as well
love these guys--village elders of the fine arts. Proko is a gentleman and a scholar.
I have found that having multiple interest is very beneficial but only 1 or 2 at a time. There is a joy from becoming proficient at art like wood turning, or pottery. I recently have been practicing drawing with digital pencil and appreciating the subtle differences a change in brightness, hue or saturation. I also code, edit video and create animations. Creativity in one sphere overflows to other spheres.
When I 12, I started piano, and I think that really helped develop my hand-eye coordination. I went to a theatre school and then i did ballet and have done it for 1 year. To me, all the other disciplines fuel my art discipline, which is the greatest.
my profession, which is very much analytical and problem solving contrasts to my drawing. the amount of mental energy and time spent on work hurts my drawing but the different ways of thinking in each of them complement each other.
The David Bowie example covers this topic for me. When difficulties come you should push through instead of having an escape.
Cool podcast! I didn't spect the topic, but I loved BC I go through that in my daily life, just too many interests! haha maybe it could harm a bit when it becomes overwhelming by lack of organization, but most of the time is useful to have other disciplines by your side; I think is just so interesting, and also keeps your creativity and curiosity on a wonderful spot, if you are creative and have a lot of ideas just with one discipline, now imagine the infinite bank of ideas you can pull out of mixing different concepts from different disciplines, its insane! Also, with the time you will realize there is a lot of basic ideas to all subjects, as the building blocks of nature and knowledge... and back in the day, at least in the renaissance ppl knew it. You don't have to become a Nobel prize in literature to dig in novels and language, its just a matter of following your curiosity and knowing how to handle information. Just imagine how happy would be a Leonardo or a Benjamin Franklin nowadays with Wikipedia and skillshare courses haha
I feel like Marshall is so experienced and intuitive and he comes up with topics that Proko is not comfortable with, then Proko finds a way to make a joke about them as a defense mechanism. I think that maybe Proko has so much to learn from Marshall, especially about not being so focused on technique and more open to different ways of thinking. And, I'm not a specialist, but I don't think that eating while walking is good for you digestion, but Google is there to answer that for us.
For the record: I code by day (C++ mostly, at Bloomberg) and draw in the evenings
Drawing programmers unite!
I am a software developer too, and picked up drawing during the pandemic. Sometimes I think about those days when I'm 10 hours in front of a computer, and just wonder how I'll be able to draw after a long day like that. What is your strategy if you don't mind me asking?
In my experience, studying multiple disciplines depleted my energy when I failed to use my new knowledge while also having to make money.
I study and study something and then I stop because I feel like I'm not gaining anything.
Also I have a tendency to take too much information as fast as possible, watching one video after another.
For me personally, it helps a ton to practice a lot, to have clear goals, and plan my studying.
The idea of talking about those books is so exciting! please make a more detailed episode taking about them!!!
I love listening to this! Also I am definitely in interdisciplinary artist and sometimes I think "man if I only did one thing I would be much better at drawing" but the truth is I use all of my skills for my work! I draw and I sew so it turned into I will make drawings and print them on fabric to turn them into accessories! I also think it is simply a great skill to be able to sew. I also have some some animation and video editing skills and I feel like knowing all of those things is very helpful to me
33:30 - Wait, so you're saying you're going to be *STAND PROKOPENKO* now?!
ok, that was bad.
but I'm not sorry.
...
*S T A N D P R O K O P E N K O*
HO HO!
I am into game-making. So knowing about illustration, animation, game theory, writing and basic sound design have served me a lot over the years. However, I can clearly see that my illustration skills, which is an activity that gives me a lot of joy, had their development stiffled because of multitasking. I regret it a little, but I know that, in order to fulfill my dream of making awesome games, mainly as an creative director, all those skills are much needed.
I am a multi-disciplinarian, and not just in art. I have, over my life time, been: a soldier (twice), a diesel engineer on a boat, newspaper photographer, a website designer, a computer technician ( building personal computers), a help-desk person, a security guard, a bartender, a telecommunications technician, a telecommunications cable installer, a fiber-optic cable install tech, a telecommunications equipment installer, and now an Sr. Engineer which includes Linux servers, windows servers, router/switches, and equipment installation. My hobbies have included: drawing, electronic circuit builder, RC car builder/racer, quad-copter pilot, guitar playing, 3d Printer builder/user, 3d designer for the 3d printer, rifle/pistol builder from parts, python programming, bash scripting, and trying but failing to understand philosophy, religions, the human condition, and women. Right now I am a Sr. Engineer at a communications company and I love my job. I believe that everything that I have learned throughout my life helps me to have a unique perspective on my job. I guess my point is, all of the stuff I have learned doesn't hurt me, but it also doesn't make me really good at any one thing. My brain doesn't allow me to study only one thing, I am constantly finding new things that I want to know so I jump around a lot.
What really made me quit every time with the Nikolaides book - I tried three times I think - was all that figure drawing. I have very little interest in drawing humans, so that was just a whole bunch of eating my greens and no fun. Also, the people I know who’ve done the whole schedule and nothing else actually came out of it with a somewhat too loose style for my taste. Took them a few years to clean up that mess, because the class wasn’t really meant to be taken on its own and would have been counterbalanced with more tight studies in other courses as you say in the podcast. Now it finally makes more sense to me. I’ve been working my way through the gesture drawing portion and it’s actually just 70h of the whole schedule, not too much in comparison, I’m sure Stan has done way more. I’ve done about half now and it has already helped quite a bit, but I’m doing the second half with animals, because it was getting far too monotonous.
Having multiple disciplines lead me to my true passion. I orginally thought I loved a particular medium but in reality I just love word building in general. I love visual storytelling so I sculpt, draw, do photography and filmmaking. The cool part is the visual language is mostly the same so there is plenty of overlap and when I study any visual art I can apply that inspiration in multiple ways. I too did learned these skills over time during my adolecence. I'm self taught in french as well and am also an entrepreneur. I believe in the cross trainning definitely especially between 2d and 3d. I believe highly in our ability to adapt I say do whatever you want. If you believe in the 10k hr rule if you live til 80 technically you can master like 10 things. I knew I wanted to be a visual story teller as a kid because I spent all my time either drawing making characters or using hot wheels and action figures to make up stories.
I am sculpting, Crafting, Painting/Drawing ..But i also want to write a book ..Oh yeah, im also having a UA-cam-channel that hopefully will help me economic in the future, but i feel it is helping me stay focused, i dont get "bored" when having many disciplines - I just jump between them ..I stand both when i am painting, and making the sketches for my painting.
This is the most perfect podcast for me. Please never stop making Draftsmen episodes! Where can I Patreon?✌️
I FREAKING LOVE this podcast!!
I work professionally as an Illustrator in a corporate office. On my off hours I split my time between working on comics and screenwriting. I've been writing for 10+ years and have only recently gotten to the level of what I would call professional quality. I have been drawing all of my life but I've been slowly chipping away at a comicbook for four or so years and I'm only now just finishing up penciling it.
I would be much further along in either screenwriting or in comics (or other art for that matter) if I ditched one and focused on the other. This just doesn't seems like a possibility though. It's like having two secret families- any time spent with one feels like time you're stealing for the other and yet it would be unfathomable to completely turn your back on either. As it is more of my energy goes into writing but I am just never able to fully divert all of my creative energy into one pursuit over another. On some days this feels like a tremendous frustration and an enormous waste of energy but on others it just is what it is- creativity just sort of chooses its own outlets and there's no helping that.
For what its worth I do feel like a well rounded person because of these competing interests... just one that will never manage to get his work into the world because he's spreading himself too thin.
Twin is that you!? Sorry I just feel your pain; I too split myself between multiple comic projects, sometimes never feeling like I'll never finish any of them, only ever getting rough story drafts and character concept art halfway done but they're all too important to me to focus on one!
In response to what Marshall was saying about doing drills for the sake of the experience rather than the product: I’m an apprentice tattoo artist so having control of my medium is absolutely crucial. My mentor had me go out and buy a gridded notebook and trace the lines in the notebook and draw the alphabet in script with a big pen stuck to the end of an old clunky, heavy tattoo machine. I did that for like 3 weeks strait 8 hours a day. Then I started to draw and my lines were intentional, clean and I move thru pieces quicker. Those 3 weeks sucked but it was really only 3 weeks and it has made the subsequent 9 months of drawing and tattooing WAY easier.
I also use stress balls and do dexterity exercises that I took from magicians, piano players and surgeons. All these contribute to my craft
So now I'm VERY interested to hear what you have to say about Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain because, for me, as someone who practices art as part of a larger discipline, it was the book that made it possible for me to understand why I could never draw things properly (lacking the initial steps of taking what I see and turning it into an image, seeing negative spaces, understanding the tricks of perspective etc.) and why I would, for example, draw certain things the same every time like eyes (using symbols etc rather than drawing what's there). The exercises in it helped me force my brain to see things the right way and I wouldn't be able to do any of it any well without it.
HOWEVER, now that I have better trained eyes, I don't need to go through the rigour of how they lay out the process for doing everything and I'm open to trying other methods and techniques, but let's say, for me, it pushed the art door open just enough that I could jam a metaphorical doorstop in there and get going which I had been unable to do for my entire life. I would not be able to see things the right way without that book, but it's not my bible.
As for today's question, as an Independent Games Developer (or at least, in the process of becoming one) I have a whole raft of different skills I've had to learn and each one of them (Programming, writing, game design, music, 2d and 3d character and environment art and animation etc.) has informed the others in some way so I'm all for it, but I think tackling them one at a time is the best way to build it up.
TL;DR: Left Side of the Brain Book helped me actually develop an artistic eye which I had never had and helped me break a lot of problematic habits, but I don't hold it up as perfect or anything and would be interested in what you have to say about it.
i love this podcast sm and they just keep mentioning my dad
Loved this episode. It's nice to hear that you guys recommend learning multiple disciplines. I enjoy learning multiple things, I've been learning zbrush, painting, writing and drawing over the past few years and at times it has become overwhelming. However, from doing all of them, I have definitely seen patterns and similarities between each focus that I can carry over from one to another. For example, from painting to writing, something like value grouping can be used, bringing a fresh new approach to writing a scene. I hope to put out my own graphic novel out in the near future using all of these different disciplines.
A year long Nikolaides course with Marshall I would pay lots of money to do.