How Pumped Hydro Is Becoming One Of The Most Promising Energy Storage Systems
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- Опубліковано 23 лют 2022
- Covering the topics of Pumped Hydro Storage, Energy Storage Industry, Hydro Power, and more!
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The United States has plans to cut greenhouse gas emissions by half within a decade. The plan was led by Biden’s administration. To achieve that, the United States will need a lot of wind and solar power, and also a cheap and effective energy storage system.
Do you think that can achieve that? Why not!
The amount of solar and wind energy developed in the day varies, hence the need for an effective energy storage system to have a constant supply of electricity.
However, the batteries nowadays are typically very small, and can only store energy that can only last for a few hours. Which would make relying on clean energy from wind and solar systems inefficient.
For the United States to completely rely on solar and wind energy for electricity, they will need a longer-term and more overnight energy storage system as well.
The innovation of batteries has indeed got a lot of attention. However, there is a more effective, simple, and long-term energy storage system that has been used for storing energy since the 1920s.
What is it? How is it used? How does it function? And why is it coming up now? Have you ever heard of pumped hydro energy storage?
For starters, it’s an energy storage system that entails the act of pumping water uphill from one storage reservoir to another, which is higher than it is. The water is then stored in the elevated reservoir storage. When energy or power is needed, the water is released to flow downhill through a network of turbines to a lower water reservoir. The process of water flowing downhill through the turbines generates electricity. Beautiful right?
Let’s look at the concept closely.
The Beauty of Pumped Hydropower Energy Storage System
One key player in this effective energy storage system is gravity. And we all know that gravity is one powerful and inescapable force that is everywhere we go. Did you know it’s also one of the main underpins of the Pumped hydropower energy storage tech?
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They'd be great to have floating solar on too, that can then help power the pumping back up hill and reduce evaporation
I love the whole idea of pumped hydro and yes I believe it will power the electrical needs of humanity for years to come
Very interesting report.
Thanks for sharing and take care.
Thumbs up on this one. It great when you do videos on stuff that is actually useful and not just marketing hype.
True
Great video, thanks.
Great video. Thank you
One overlooked pump storage option is the Salton Sea and Pacific Ocean in California. Pump water out of the Salton Sea at night using geothermal energy and produce hydroelectric power during the day by adding Pacific ocean water to the Salton Sea. The surface area of the Salton sea is 343 square miles. There is a 225 feet of elevation difference between the Salton Sea and Pacific Ocean. They have already bored a hole in the mountain between the imperial valley and San Diego to transport fresh water. They could drill another one for this battery storage idea. Another advantage is you effectively reduce the high salinity of the Salton Sea while improving air quality of the imperial valley by covering the entire dry lake bed.
Cost/efficiency argument stated in this video is based upon the price the electricity is 'purchased from the grid' - that is a local solution only. ie buy when cheap to use later when cost to buy is higher. That is not a national solution.
For a country to rely 100% upon renewables and utilise storage to offset when wind/solar are not providing enough energy first requires that renewable have to be able to provide 100% the max demand , only then when demand is dropping off can the hydro pumps start to work to store the water
So how far is the installation of 100% renewable power infrastructure?
Renewable (Wind + Solar + Hydro) + Pumped Hydro is the equation that solves world's fossil fuel addiction.
+nuclear
Im not sure. We'll have to take a look at energy demands and trends in usage. And see how much available places there are for underground hydro facilities, then see if this can actually work.
@@hydromic2518 Let's keep and nurture the nuclear we have as long as technically and economically feasible... and safe! But new nuclear is both way too expensive an energy, and way too long to plan, permit, build and commission.
@@AceofDlamonds I live near one of the largest pumped hydro facility in Switzerland. The had lake is situated 880 m higher in the mountains, but the pumping/turbining station is underground, pretty much in the middle of a most touristy little city (it is next to the world famous Castle of Chillon). Nobody notices it, unless they are pointed towards it (visits are possible). It's been functioning great for over 50 years, and the installation's power was upgraded recently to 2 times 240 MW. Its storage capacity is 100 GWh, enough for regulating a future 100% renewable grid for 5 million inhabitants! And that is only one of 19 such installations in Switzerland (although one of the largest one), which total ca. 400 GWh of storage capacity, enough to stabilise a 100% renewable grid for 20 million inhabitants, 2 1/2 times the Swiss population. And new Swiss projects are being constructed, or more often existing projects are seeing their capacities and/or power enlarged. Together with Austria, which is pretty much in the same case, as well as Northern Italy , this region has become the "battery" for a big portion of Central and Western Europe.
Conclusion: the argument that a 100% renewable grid is impossible because of failing storage to cove the infamous "Dunkelflaute", is a biased ant incorrect argument , either coming from ill-formed parties, or from ones of bad faith! Quite obviously, there is much to do to extend such capability to all countries, but it can be done! It IS being done!
@@st-ex8506
Here in Indiana, US we are looking at old mines and quarries for suitable locations for pumped hydro storage. If there is no elevated land, perhaps we can look underground.
Thank you
This is the video of the ignorance. When I entered the power industry my first job was to analyse the hydraulic of a pumped storage system. Now I am retired. No new pumped storage has ever been built since in the country I reside.
To build a hydro you need land for one reservoir. For pumped hydro you need two. Geographically it is extremely difficult to have a site with a sizeable water flow, mountains that can be changed to store the water and economics to make it viable. Merely citing it as though a new found usage for storage is uneducated as asking a bald person like Vin Diesel that he should change to the hairdo of Tom Cruise because it is nice, black and thick.
A pumped storage system is tinny by power plant standard and as such it will never be able to store the excess power generated by wind and solar realistically. It is one of the options available and can have a large capacity if a suitable site is available. In UK and China the biggest pumped storage are 1,728 MW and 3,600 MW respectively. Relative to the national installed generation capacity of 75,800 MW and 2,320,000 MW they are just drops in the ocean.
IHA reports UK has currently a total of 2,800 MW pumped storage. The viable hydropower potential for development is just 2,400 MW and most of them are mini sizes (up to 5MW each). Pumped storage is just a theory and in practise very few countries are able to have it.
Also the many pumped storage systems "DO NOT" make money from the energy storage but for frequency regulation, standby for large load shedding and load addition. Thus many of them earn a living just by having the pumped storage "ready" and not actually operational. Hydro is the quickest way to get a huge power generation suddenly. The full output of a pumped storage can be had from zero to just 10 to 20 seconds. This requires the turbine spinning in the air running at mains frequency and the full power is achieved by opening the control valves in 10 to 20 seconds in pre-programmed strokes. A thermal power plant, say coal fired, can take many days for the system moving, turbine warmed up to the design temperature, boiler to reach fire up, cooling and lubrication systems in full working and flowing condition and many supporting and auxiliaries sub-systems all working in unison first.
Unfortunately in New Zealand our government spending billions of dollars on pumped hydro called project Onslow. Complete waste of money considering we don’t have surplus electricity to begin with so how on earth can they pump water uphill
@@jonny5569 I won't rude out the wisdom of building pumped storage schemes in NZ. NZ does have surplus energy from wind and solar eventually as it has land, mountains and acres of uninhabited areas for their installations. Thus the pumped storage system will be good for absorbing the excess renewable energy at the day time and release it in the evening when out put of the renewable system drops.
Despite having been there for driving holiday I don't know how the electricity is managed but a pumped storage system is piggy-backed to a large generator who may have excess unsold energy during the off-peak time and can use it to storage the excess output. For some old power plants the best efficiency is to run them at the rated condition continuously. Boilers and furnaces for example should not shut down regularly because the thermal movement can do more damage. Just like a Formula one car a power plant needs to do warn up laps before it can give the best performance
Is ground water levels are recharged with this project or not. A integrated pumped hydro project was under construction near to my land we are facing drought in our area
there are solar farm that use molten salt batteries yet i have no clue what percentage of that is lost... if it not much then wouldn't using the extra electric be use to heat up salt be better? It would take up allot less space i would think.
I love it
How about using the oceans. If fresh water is scarce, oceans can do the same along the lagoons. Just an idea
Thi is also being explored
Sounds like storage is solved, everybody can go home and have a beer.
First we need to build more of this!
I wonder if this is usable in a town with only a 100 meter difference in elevation
We need more. They beat oil and coal generators hands down.
Old news. Mostly true, but it has problems, especially if you want to build so many more of these things:
1. Most suitable locations are either already in use, not allowed to build on, or too far from the place you want to power. You want a hill and a valley you can dam with a water source nearby and close to your city because large scale earthworks, transporting the water from far away, and building the roads and power lines to the site all cost money and increasing the work needed on any part of the project can make it too expensive to be economical. We could in theory just dig a big hole almost anywhere and use the excavated dirt to make a hill for the upper reservoir, but the cost would be astronomical. Many experts say the amount of pumped hydro storage needed cannot be done economically, which is why all the other kinds of batteries get so much attention.
2. Water scarcity. If there is a river or lake that could be used for PH, it can be used for drinking water, transportation, fishing, recreation and tourism. You cannot fish, swim, etc. in a reservoir- well, you can try, but it is forbidden for a good reason. Also, climate change is changing weather patterns and many mountains no longer get enough snow to keep the rivers flowing all summer. Some types of batteries might require rarer elements or cost more, but they won't stop working due to a dry season. And between a pumped hydro station that can be easily replaced by something that does not need water and a field growing the food we need to eat, the field should get priority.
3. Ecological cost & effects. You need to build a big dam and spillways and reinforce the banks of the reservoir to avoid landslides, this takes a huge amount of concrete, which produces lots of CO2. Add destroying the plants in what is now a lake bottom and possibly blocking a river that should water the areas downstream, and this project might not seem so green any more. Building a hydro power station on a river might not immediately kill 100% of the fish, but the effects on fish populations are proven and obvious. Building a reservoir will destroy some valley and force all the animals and people to relocate, and no, you don't get a picturesque lake full of fish you can enjoy, reservoirs are not like that. Given you want to build close to your city to keep the costs down and avoid transmission losses, the people wanting this green energy storage will likely see firsthand just how damaging it can be, making a small building filled with batteries seem more preferable.
4. Huge up front cost. PH works best on large scale, but digging a bigger hole costs more money and time, and time is also money when you could have invested in another project that can start producing power and therefore profits years sooner. This is similar to how you could spend years and billions of dollars building a nuclear power plant before getting a single watt out of it, but if you used that money to build windmills you could add hundreds of MW of power capacity each year and start being paid as soon as the first turbine is connected to the grid.
Any and all of these may affect a single project, now multiply that by hundreds...
I agree,
this channel keeps pumping old news as breakthtrougs.
I got tired of this kind of nonsense popping up.
one more nonsense and I block this channel.
Check out the pumped hydro facility at Turlough Hill constructed in 1968 in Ireland. It cost $1 Billion dollars, and for a country of 6 million people, it would have to be repeated 36 times (!!) to cover the requirements of Ireland. Real Engineering website gives all the details, good and bad.
The alternative is Li-Ion battery. Which one is cheaper and more ecological?
@@plau2007 No, it is not. Li-ion batteries are better saved for EVs, there are a number of alternate chemistries that are cheaper, less polluting and longer lasting.
But if you want to make a Powerwall unit from li-ion batteries then there are old EV batteries available, which incidentally disproves all claims that those cannot be/are not recycled.
@@AnalystPrime Pump storage is the least expensive solution to store energy. And the most used.
Mining companies as part of a clean up operation could be levied (they take some shares in the operation and assist in the redevelopment of the old open cast mine),Solar rack or floating solar could be used on the reservoirs to reduce surface evaporation and simultaneously improve cooling of solar panels and in turn improving efficiency . As the relationship between wind speed and power generated is an exponential one a variable speed pump could be an enhancement feature to allow more wind on the grid. Greater attention could be paid to water leakage, At efficiency levels above 80 plus % coupled with on site renewable generation could be a game changer, Don't you think?
The US uses consumes on average about 500GW, US pumped hydro supplies 22GW from the 40 facilities is only 4% of that demand and used only for load balancing, electricity demand will increase with electric cars. It takes years to commission and build new pumped hydro.
Question for you all
If it were possible to run more than one bank of turbines in a hydro plants NEW or OLD units without issues of backpressure or surging turbines would you do it for a 5-8% return ?
Why am I asking ?
Well I am RDP Marine Australia and have made a prototype unit that can do the job BUT I have been left with the impression that it is not welcome
It's not welcome because it solves the problem of energy
@@MH-rh3ni i know that i have made one its not welcome
Good idea short in practice.
1) ask storage and generation efficiencies.
2) the product of 1) above is total efficiency.
Question: is total efficiency > 0.5?
Yes. Round trip efficiency, meaning how much of the energy you put into the storage you get out, is around 79%. Also, this is simple and mature tech so while there won't be any new advances to expect, there will be no problems building it as long as you have a suitable location.
@@AnalystPrime thanks. Are we saying for every 100 unit of water volume release, 79 units can be pump back at the source? We are dealing with two cycle of mechanical and electrical transformations, unbelievable.
@@philoso377 79% is said to be the average, but I have also seen 85% quoted as the most efficient modern design. If you had a 90% efficient pump and a 90% efficient generator, a gigawatt-hour you bought would return 1000*.9*.9 = 810MWh of electricity you can sell back. However, even though some designs for pumps are said to be 93% efficient and the best designed turbines can reach 90-95% in optimum conditions, most pumped hydro designs specify using a turbine that also works as a pump, saving the cost of building a whole second set of pipes and maintaining twice the amount of machines. The cost is, of course, that they cannot be as efficient both ways as something optimized to work in only one direction.
Another efficiency issue we must consider is that while you wait for demand to rise, some of the water you spent energy to pump up there will evaporate(yes, even in winter), seep into the ground, or sometimes freeze into useless chunks of ice. This loss is usually minor, but it does add up and gets bigger the larger your reservoir is.
Also, running the facility involves wages, maintenance costs, etc. so you can't keep waiting for prices to rise for too long. For these reasons even though pumped hydro is considered the most cost effective large scale and longer term energy storage, you will likely want to sell the cheap power you bought ASAP.
I guess what this all means is that the actual efficiency depends on a particular location and how well it was designed and built.
@@AnalystPrime let’s assume we have 0.9 efficient in each, electric motor and water pump. Round trip cycle the total efficiency becomes 0.656. Do you agree?
@@philoso377 Um, no. The efficiency of different size and type of pumps varies from 70 to 90+% but that includes the pump and the motor running it. Same with the generators, some wheels are more efficient than others, but when a turbine is rated 90% then that means 90% of water power becomes electricity.
Thats what I've been calling water battery
I have that idia 10 years ago i dont have money to do it so i just have a painting
Underground pumped storage hydro
Pretty neat. But 80%? Please...
Pumped hydro as proposed isn't an economically aggressive enough idea. Lakes Mead and Oroville in California are or can be revenue generators besides being a source of pumped hydro. Fishing, swimming and watersports are substantial revenue and recreational resources. If you put one lake every 100 miles between Lake Mead and The Mississippi flood plain you'd have about 20 lakes. That's 20 money making, fun lakes, along US Highway 82. They could be filled from the heavy flood rains that happen every year. Pipe the overflow to the next lake until all the lakes are full then pump the one closest to lake Mead into lake Mead. Pump all the others in succession till very little energy is needed to pump the water. In fact use Solar and Wind to do the pumping. Finally replenish lake Mead as water is used to generate energy and provide valuable irrigation.
Air Battery is more efficient because it has no problem of water wasting in air
Is this too late for this? How many functioning dam we have left after the dam tear down began?
Great UA-cam piece on the pumped hydro facility in Ireland, at Turlough Hill power station. To make reservoirs is very expensive, and to tunnel underground is expensive and time consuming. Ireland has a population of 6 million people. Turlough cost ONE BILLION dollars. For six million people, Ireland requires 36 Turloughs to completely go non-carbon.
And so, what does that mean for 330 million people in the USA? These are expensive, and worst, suitable geography is an enormous problem.
Ireland is not a country filled with mountain ranges, in fact, its highest peak just qualifies as suitable for pumped hydro. The U.S. and almost every country, except Ireland, England and Lebanon have many good sites( even Scotland has good sites).
@@ryuuguu01 I spoke with the management group at a California Energy Commission back in 2006 that was tring to get funding for a pumped hydro site in Southern California. Great location. Use of an abandoned mine as the upper reservoir to store water. Needed to construct a lower reservoir. They tried a dozen YEARS to get funding. Nope.
Same with the utility, SMUD. Very good elevation differentials in the Sierra Nevada. Nope. Cost of construction is a huge problem. Return on investment? The fact that wind turbines keep proliferating, in spite of huge amounts of concrete for each turbine, expensive blades...it typicall pencils out.
Mountain ranges can have seismic dangers. The water weigh of a reservoir can trigger a destructive earthquake (bye bye dam) on a heretofore unsuspected fault.
I asked the CEO of the Socal energy storage venture, "What is the sweet spot for sizing the output generator, watts per dollar? He said (in 2006) 4.5 megawatts.
In 2006.
Only a few hundred hoover dams for the whole country? Really?
I can create a New way to produce hydroenergy
This could make West Virginia rich if they would just realize the futility of coal.
Why dont they just build an upper reservior and lower reservior in a free land near sola fram?
WE KNOW, GERMAN ESPECIALISTS, THAT PUMPED HYDRPOWER DEVELOPMENTS. ARE IDEAL FOR LARGE ELECTR NETS, LIKE IN EUROPE OR IN ASIA .
if it takes twice the amount of energy to pump the water back up to the upper storage dam so that means you pay 3 times the amount of the going rate
It does not take 200% more. Pumped hydro is 80%, not 33% efficient.
@@ryuuguu01 show me the size pumps and motors pumping the water back up hill
Put floating solar of the reservoirs and you can get even more electricity.
A promise that will NEVER be realized! Like so many other boondoggles during the past 30 years. These are always "a few years and a couple of hundred million US dollars" from working on an industrial scale. But that NEVER happens...
In addition to all the calculations, merits and demerits, we seem to be ignoring the enormous damage caused by PH to the biodiversity and flora fauna.
It's pronounced "an-sill-LARRY". Not "an-SILL-ery"
Um, I think you're a couple years late on this, especially in California
Not becoming.... it is the only reliable system.
Expensive, unfortunately.
Lees expensive than Li-Ion batteries!
What's never mentioned is the way electric suppliers have raised prices through the roof in the last ten years alone. The pumped storage facility near me in Northfield Mass, is destroying the section of the Connecticut river it's been pulling water from for the last 50 years. First Light came in, bought up everything, set up a massive solar farm alongside it and is selling off all that it makes to the highest bidder instead of augmenting our supply as they promised. We're left subsidizing the building of the solar farm so they can reap the benefits. Everyone forgets, Tesla wanted to deliver free electricity wirelessly back at the turn of the century with no impact on the environment. Solar farms a re a waste of land, they're ugly and inefficient, the windmills depend on oil and regular maintenance, they're a fail as well. They slough off ice in great sheets in the winter and do great damage when they begin to fail.
and which is the salvation solution?
How was Tesla going to generate the free electricity?
The wireless delivery of energy is nonsense . There are far to many losses. Think about radio, hundreds of KWs into a radio transmitter in order to get a few mW induced into your radio antenna. 99.999%+ loss over any real distance.
@@patdbean There have since been zero point electric generators with their patents suppressed by big oil for years since then. most likely wireless delivery could easily be delivered with today's tech. The fact is, they don't want it, control and compliance is the goal, not autonomy.
@@gman100 no the "fact is that it dose not work" the existence of a patent is meaning less. Many patens exist for designs that have never had a working prototype. demonstrated .
No it is nice it works BUT it It is very inefficient in a business sense The amount of money you have to actually put into it it's very inefficient
Where are the numbers to back this up? LCOS is quite good for pumped hydro. It generally has a life span in the range of 100 years and is mature well understood technology making it financially attractive.
Started to watch video, then realized the way the sentences were constructed. Sure enough, another completely AI generated video, using video clips and pictures found online, to push false information.