Can a $77 DAC beat a $350 one? Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt vs Fosi Audio DS1
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2023
- Fosi Audio DS1 amzn.to/3DKBbSs
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A Dongle DAC sounds like something from Harry Potter.
Dumbledore dongle DAC. Say it 3 times, you start seeing fireflys :)
3 points for your comment
Or penthouse 😮
Love your channel Randy! Your watch game is on point too!!
I enjoy my hidizs S9 pro. It came from the factory with a non working otg cable. They offered a replacement but I opted out and ordered one from Ddhifi that works perfectly and has the arrows on the outside for orientation marking. Ddhifi is snug and secure and more flexible. I recommend both together. Thanks for the content!
Great review, and someone is going to end up with a nice gift thanks to Audioquest.
DUDE! Just found your channel today. Oh man its what ive been looking for!!! Thanks for all you do...im a new subscriber and will be a regular visitor!!!!!
I have the Audioquest DragonFly Black, which I bought 3 or 4 years ago, and it’s pretty decent of the basic DragonFly range. I’m currently saving up for a Peachtree Audio Nova 150 integrated amplifier, which has a very good DAC, which is capable of double DSD, and decent headphone amp built into it. So when I finally get that, I’ll most likely use that for headphone listening over the DragonFly Black.
Love this hi-if nerd channel! Cheers Randy. You are the king.
Great review, Randy! Cheers.
Another dongle DAC to consider is the iFi GO link DAC/headphone amp for $60. I just got one and it sounds really good - right up there with my Audioquest Dragonfly Black. It's standard USB-C for the "universal" phones, but comes with a USB-A adapter and also an Apple Lightning adapter, so works right out of the box with my iPhone. It also does handle MQA for my Tidal subscription and has lights to show you what resolution you're getting by color. All this and less than the $77 Fosi Audio DS1.
Just ordered the iFi GO Link. Eager to check it out.
Just noticed your coffee mug! I worked at Parker Hannifin (CSO) in Irvine back in the early 90’s!!
👍Good video Randy, thanks for the info! 🥂
Any time!
Hey Randy! I've only ever used PC for audio and hifi. My experience on volume control is that it largely depends, speaking of DACS and Windows, they are a bit funny! No other way to put it, some DACs have an issue with maxing volume. My personal policy is to try and keep the PC volume at 40-85% not too low or not too high until I have sufficiently concluded which volumes can be maxed without negs. I try and dial the Douk ST-01 in so that I am around that range at normal or higher volume.
And then there's per application, and then software EQing. Tidal on Windows, when the volume is maxed, starts to distort regardless of Windows sound device volume. I don't know why, but once I noticed it, and fixed it, I was very surprised. The highs got scratchy. Distortion! So I keep Tidal's volume slider at around 75% and that seems to resolve that. When I learned that about Tidal, I began to keep Spotify, UA-cam, and others at around 70-80% just in case. My point being, it's a bit finnicky, I would say 50% of the time maxing all sliders on PC doesn't cause an issue. But the other half of the time, it does matter substantially. And in fact there are situations where you don't want it to be higher than 50%. For instance some PCI-E sound cards actually calibrate the max undistorted output at 50%, and higher is just bonus amplification which begins to totally fall apart as you raise it above 60, 70 percent. In fact The volume dial on the software shows green up until 50% then goes yellow and red, letting you know that you can increase the output at a cost. But if you are just using Windows Audio your only option is to just notice that you can't max the volume slider without turning the signal into an unstable mess that distorts and fluctuates in volume. This is very useful, some headphones just aren't loud enough and if you aren't critical listening you can get a lot of extra volume. So the scenarios are endless but in my lengthy PC experience, about 50% of the time it does matter how high your audio device is set to in Windows. Half the time, it can be set too high. And a small percent of the time, it can be set too low. I have seen before that the amp isn't getting everything if you are under 10 or 20% volume on the sound device. So listening closely and playing with the volume sliders on sound device, per application, and being mindful when using any sort of DSP either built into Windows or third-party. Like Loudness Normalization, etc, needs to be payed attention to if you want optimal sound quality. I'm not a pro I've just used Windows exclusively for all of my media for 30 years and I can tell you it's finnicky. You have I am sure a ton more experience with Pre-amps, amps, 3, 4 different components and having to dial in the volume, level, gains of each. Well when using Windows, the same exact applies to all other volume levels. Sometimes they can just be maxed, other times they have to be dialed in the same as other hardware levels.
I leave it to someone with more expertise on the back end to comment and explain why this is, but in my experience volumes being too high or low in the audio device or even per app, often does matter, although probably not nearly as often in 2023 as in the 2000's or so lol.
Dude, you're seriously reviewing products now right as I'm getting curious about them, a few times in a row 😆
I have the Fosi D2 dongal it is great for what I want it to do. I can use all my IEMs on it and most headphones on it. Simple easy to use plug and play for sure. Did you try to use the High and Low gain on the D1....Hold the volume button down to switch between the two (positive, negitive).
I have the Dragonfly Red that was given to my by a friend, when he picked up the cobalt... I thought the Red was great, and then I got the Hidizs S9Pro, and I loved those better.... and then I got the Moondrop Moon River2, and that's the one I use the most now... but mostly because that one came with the 4.4mm balanced output, and that's what I have on my Noble Audio Tux5 IEMs. When I listen to my Noble Audio M3 IEMs, I use the S9Pro with the 3.5mm single ended output, and I also use my Meze 99 Noir headphones with a 2.5mm balance cable.
Will you please do a review on the qudelix 5k dongle dac. I'm curious to hear your thoughts and reactions on this product thank you so much keep up the great work love what you doing
This is the kind of comparison that you do best.
I have my Hidiz S9 pro connected to my Emotiva PT-100. I think it sounds great, but I’ve been wondering how much better a
Hi, I am thinking about hooking up a external DAC for my DeskTop Computer and I don't know where to start? Can you recommend a DAC with HDMI in and type B USB out? Thanks Randy, really appreciate the help in choosing the right DAC.
Great Review Randy!👍 Good luck to all who entered the giveaway.
Thanks 👍
@@cheapaudioman Ifi zen blue V2 vs Fiio BTR 30pro which one best for my old Yamaha rx n600 avr ..for mobile throw Ldac input or any other Plz suggest i waiting i am from India
I have the Astell & Kern AK HC3 dongle DAC and it sounds sublime. Worth reviewing.
I use a different adapter with my iPhone and AQ Cobalt. It’s the one with lightning to USB as well as a port to charge the iPhone while in use.
Did you listen to the Fosi DS1's 4.4mm output through a balanced cable with the Editon XS?
Thanks so much for this info, as usual. I am considering an R2R dongle DAC to get an idea of R2R technology before getting an $800 + DAC.
smart
Im using an Ares 2 r2r dac for over a year. There is not a huge difference between it and 100-200$ dacs. It is 'better', but in hindsight I wish I put that money into better speakers. I would be quite happy using the brilliant Khadas toneboard full time.
@@peterlarkin762 Many thanks for your input. I shall look into getting an R2R dongle DAC now.
3:30 - I always max the volume, then go back one notch/click/tap. For some reason, sounds just that little bit better half the time, especially in the car
Yup I do that too with similar results.
Sound signature depends on DAC output stage right? I really wish companies put in both types of them so we can just flip a switch and go from fun to analytical instead of buying two units :'/ I would buy it just for convenience sake
I have a Fosi class AB Amp that’s excellent. I’ve heard the Dragonfly Red and the Cobalt. I’d like to have one of each but if I’m winning one I would prefer to win a Cobalt.
Great perspective!! Cheers.
thanks so much!
Randy! Fosi Audio and audio quest, as well as all the other non-sith audio companies and sponsors! You’ve come so far from the wobbly table and 500 subs since I’ve been stalking, I mean following, you. Good stuff as usual and thanks again for another great vid!
Problem is he has so many companies cutting him checks its hard to know what info is legit anymore
Wow, thanks!
I have the dragonfly red and the blue they are both equally great and completely different sound profiles great for different types of music. Well worth the money for either one or both
@cheapaudioman
I'm in the market for a stereo component DAC and want to bypass a preamp. Source into DAC, into amp. I'm under the impression not all DACs can be used without a signal boosting preamp even if they have variable output. Is that true? Do you have any experience with which DACs can be used this way? Thanks for any help you can provide.
Hidizs S3 PRO Ultra Portable Hi-Res DAC Dongle
Hi, do you ever review anything like the above item? I’ve had things like this in the past but cheaper I just would be interested in your thoughts I’m not affiliated to this product I just would be interested in your opinion on such things
many thanks
Glen
If you want to get decent audio quality from an Audioquest Dragonfly then take it outside, place on the ground and drop a brick on it then go buy something much better sounding for £100, they are very poor sounding and measure pretty poorly for snr and output.
Agreed
I have owned all the AQ dongles and currently own the Hidizs. IMO, the Hidizs absolutely smokes all of the AQ offerings.
I was impressed with the hidizs. they seem to go in and out of stock. I remembered that they weren't available for a while on amazon.
@@cheapaudioman you're right, they are sometimes scarce
I'm assuming you didn't run the 6xx from the 4.4mm balanced output on the fosi randy? Xx
Stumbled across your review on this... clicked the link for the Fosi and found it to be 40% off!! Done deal!!!
Might I suggest you do a vid on line level passive and active crossovers for bi-amping speakers
when you showed your cap and said about coffee, I've just finished my cap, and felt sad)))
I really enjoy my Dragonfly Cobalt. It's got a lot of nuance for such a little guy. But I honestly think it's not worth what I paid lol
How can a DAC alter frequency response....either it works or it doesn't?
I don't have the exact same headphones as Randy does, but I have the Sennheiser HD 600 and Hi-Fi Man Sundara. I find the HD 600 works better for vocally focused music like Adele as well as classical and jazz while the Sundara works better for Rock with better slam. Seeing how Randy prefers Rock I'm not surprised that he likes the Edition XS better.
Randy, give the two Emotiva large dongle DACs - the Little Ego+ and the Big Ego+ - a try. The former is only $49.10 and the latter is $79.10.
The issue with the Egos is that they draw too much power from iOS devices so you would need the upgraded camera adapter with the built in lightning port to power the dac and charge the phone. So it not the portable option.
I use the original little ego in one of my setups and it is a solid performer. If you only your your computer as a source it’s a very good option. If you are using a phone or tablet then you need the proper adapter with a port for the power cable
@@raulgarcia1718 I always use the camera adaptor anyway with the charge port no matter what dac.
@@kevincorr2985 that is ideal and I do the same but if portability is important in one’s use case, having to plug in your dac may be a non starter.
The name of the Fosi dc1 amplifier indicates DSD512, and the description states that its dac supports DSD only up to 5.6 MHz. But DSD512 is 22 MHz. How to understand this? Does the amplifier support 22 MHz or not?
Can thie fosi audio ds1 dac compete the typical 1.000 k laptop built in dac? Can we then connect our kind of good external pc speakers to it? If yes what do we do with the volume control at the dac?
An external dac will often be better than the built in dac in most computers. Sound is where a lot of computer makers cut corners unless you request a solid sound card on a custom build.
I'm confused, is detail just another term for treble in the audiophile world? I've sometimes seen treble equated to detail in other reviews too. Because I would think there is detail a dac might leave out on something like the strike of a mallet on a large orchestral bass head.
No, but it is easier to pick out detail in the highs and mids.
Fosi Audio has a DS2 now for cheaper, confused as if this is the better dac if it is cheaper than the DS1??
Thanks. Good comparison. I miss MQA. Sounded the best to me. Now tidal is flac only trying to find an EQ that sounds similar...think it is ear fatigue on low end
The Audioquest Cobalt also has the Jitterbug noise filter built into it which is a $60-$70 accessory.
every good dac filters noise
So I don’t need to buy a i silencer jitter bug on its own?
I have brougt an Onten and put my lan cable behind it and into an ipad air 2 it sounds really great with my black Dragonfly, but for noise i have olso brougt a AUDIOQUEST JITTERBUG FMJ and to test difference olso brought the Blue Cobalt Dragonfly not recieved it yet.
You recommended the low cost Schiit Modi 3 DAC and I loved it so much, I bought another one! Great value.
Good choice!
Can someone please recommend a DAC that can work with Metal music and other types of music. Yes i do jazz music and other soft music but NOT A SINGLE PERSON talks about how these thing will play out when listening to metal, rock etc
Good subject man.
the Cobalt is on sale now for $199. So I just ordered one. I guess they are getting ready to come out with a new one.
Don't forget that all Dragonfly dacs are Made in the USA
Ah, so that's why they're trash price/performance wise.
I appreciate you saying "you try" not to be influenced by support. Can't happen no matter how great you think you are. Can't subscribe because there is too much info and knowledge to absorb without delusion.
Regarding the Hidizs, it’s the cable not the dac. Just change it and it fits snug :))
I'd been using two if the Audioquest Dragonfly Black v1.2, one for home and one on my laptop at work. After years of use they both lost one channel. I replaced on of the older units with the updated v 1.5 Black and use it in my TV system through the Fosi TB10D (newer one) and Andrew Jones designed Pioneer tower speakers. It does a decent job, certainly better than the PC's normal output. I had tested the Topping Dx3 Plus, which was a hair better in some aspects.
What is it that you don't like about the HD 6XX for music, Randy?
I sold my HD 6XX 2 weeks after owning them. The hype wasn't real for me. Went back to my HiFiman.
@@adaboy4z I sold my Hifiman to go back to the 6XX. It sounds sexy!
E1DA is only one ...is Transparent and technical. No other can be so technical and transparent.
300 quid for that ugly usb key, only ‘cause is “audioquest”, it’s a scam.
Audioquest DACs a overpriced outdated devices. Nowadays there are many options better in quality and connectivity. The Hidizs is certainly one of them, but can think also of the THX Onyx and Earmen Sparrow
Cheap vs expensive... I've got one. The Cayin RU6 dongle DAC, seemingly trounced my Ares II... Simply better, and only $250! And yes, I hooked it up to my two channel rig. Sad to say, at least in the first round of listening, it was the better DAC.
Late to the game on this post, but…. Dragonfly Cobalt on sale at $199 vs Fosi DS1 at $75? Any thoughts on better bang for the buck ??
In a battle between Expensive DAC/Amp + Budget Speakers, and Budget DAC/Amp + Expensive Speakers, I'd go for the latter every time.
What do you guys think?
This is a good one.
Why use Apple CCK adapter when an OTG cable works with iPhone?
To charge your iPhone or iPad while listening to music. Some dongles suck the life out of your device quickly.
Instead of buying a big DAC and streamer. Can I do this: hook up my iPhone that has Tidal. Take the 3.5 jack into RCA and plug into the AUX of my integrated amplifier Rega Elex-R and be on my way?
You will need the lightning to 3.5 mm adapter to do this but it’s only $8 or so from Apple. You would be limited to 24/48 but that’s enough for lossless and spatial audio. If you want to go hirez then you would add an external dac + the apple lightning to camera adapter.
If your iPhone still has a headphone jack then you don’t need the adapter unless you are using an external dac.
Pick up the Cayin RU6 dongle DAC, a bit pricey at $250, but it trounced my nearly $900 Denafrips Ares II on my two channel rig.
I'm still ususing the LGV30,as my go to DAC,yeah it's OLDER,but it's quad DAC,and when your a single dad,your kids come first,one day I will pick one up.
For desktop use, is there a reason not to go with dongles over the bigger "desktop" boxes? As long as my amp or keyboard has volume controls? I've never understood the difference - is some level of quality being sacrificed for size?
There is no reason not to do that. If your desktop is the only source it’s a good space saving option
The quality of the dongle DACs today is outstanding. The $250 Cayin RU6 just trounced my nearly $900 Ares II DAC... Many good dongle DACs out there.
Argh, watched the review and bought it, only to discover that it doesn't play on my new Samsung Galaxy Tab! I get a prompt asking if Tidal is allowed to use the DS1, select YES, then silence. Works fine on my old Samsung S8 phone.
Thanks for the opportunity!
Just too bad they are all SE and not BAL as well for the price.
But would still be happy to win one of them 😁
P.S Blue is my favorite color.
That hidizs s9 pro is a turd… I mean it works but kills your phone battery and the iPhone cable goes to sh*t in about a dozen uses. Replaced it the cable twice… over it. Does the Fosi get hot and kill your battery?
Aiyima T8 is $108 on Walmart right now.
The answer is yes, any of the modern dongle DACs are good enough
I kind of feel sorry for you sir. You have so much greatness upon you. Makes me feel like your the beggar searching for the drink upon the water. Thank you for those of us who know that the struggle is real.
Fiio , Creative are good
for less than half that price...
This was one long advertisement for Fosi audio which could have been shorter.
Mo money means mo problem.
I have both the DS1 and the S9 Pro. The S9 Pro sounds way better to me for very little extra money.
I would have $500, $1000 and +$1000 DAC's. The $1000+ range has more of a resolving, spacious and wider sound that the Sub $1000 does not do.
But Dacs are designed to be transparent to the source. How can it have a sound?
@@adaboy4z The analog phase of DACs are all different. Two DACS can use the same chip but one DAC has a better analog circuit and sounds better.
@Wayne Joy But manufactures have stated they make their Dacs to sound transparent to the source. If a Dac is altering the sound then somethings wrong. I belive we hear what we want. A/B testing can solve that issue. I can hear differences with amps, speakers, room sizes and treatments.
@@adaboy4z The manufacturers are either lying or disagree what the source is supposed to sound like.
How can you be sponsored by any company and still be an honest reviewer? Of course I take everything you review with a grain of salt.
Would be cool if you could get an affiliate link for aliexpress, if that's possible. I'm going to buy one, but it's cheaper from China and easier to get here in Korea. Just a thought.
I prefer the iPnone adapter that has a charging port because you often need to charge at the same time. Much more useful than the single no charge one shown here.
No wireless charging on the iPhone? Bummer......
Us made vs China made? Easy choice for me.
weren't you in breaking bad?
i went down this wormhole with the ifi hip-dac because i wanted to beef up my headphone listening experience with tidal masters. it was a disaster!
like the dragonfly, you need a lightning to camera iphone dongle. the problem is that this adapter is made for cameras, so it’s made to lay flat on a surface while connecting the two devices. Because i live in nyc and am often walking, i wanted a solution while i was out and about. when connecting the iphone to the dac and stacking them on one another, the dongle is in a U shape and this was the disaster. these dongles are absolute trash unless you lay them straight. i went through probably 6-7 different dongles, from the apple store, random ones on amazon, etc. within a week or two, the bending of the dongle would damage it and cause the dac to no longer be able to transfer sound.
i was super bummed because the sound was great when i was sitting still, but when using headphones i’m always on the move so this unfortunately cannot be a solution for me.
anyone else experience the same issue? any other solutions?
350$ for a dac??? for less than 150$ I have a big powerfull receiver, a great pair of speakers, a vintage highend cd player, and a bluetooth audio receiver with analog and digital outputs... (and if I was into vinil, I can get a vintage one for arround 100$... total price well under the price of a single dac) this is beeing cheap and spending money where it matters more...
I have an ADI-2 DAC, some HD820 headphones, and I am still not happy with the sound, lol.
Some days I want to quit music altogether, but... I can't...
Audioquest dacs usually test poorly for the money. They are in the same realm as Ifi in terms of massively overrated products. Not surprising at all Audioquest gets spanked by much cheaper products. The Tempotec Sonata HD Pro will wipe the floor with it.
I have noticed more Fosi featured on your channel recently. Maybe just noticing it. That said, even though they sponsor you, you seem to be staying pretty real with it all and giving pretty good reviews. I know how hard it is when you have a sponsor to remain unbiased as they pay you, but I feel you have achieved a good balance between keeping a sponsor happy and giving a good review.
cheap dac, class a amp
Dragonfly Cobalt is the best £200 I ever spent. The portable ESS ES9038Q2M is performing on all fronts with excellent timing, weight and dynamics.
No need for an expensive DAP when paired with the rather luxury iPhone via OTG cable.
audioquest cobalt is expensive for what it offers. you pay for the name while it gets beaten in audio quality by sub 100$ dac dongles :)
@@zengerz What it's offering me is excellent SQ matching a DAP several times the price. In my opinion. Would be interested to hear all the competition, but it's not possible.
@@Jaytecx
There are literally over 30 dacs better for cheaper since you mostly pay for the Audioquest brand name.
Hidisz s9 (pro), ibasso 03/04 (pro), hiby dongles, moondrop dongles, shanling dongles, tempotec Sonata etc.. to much to name actually 😉
Have you heard all these then?
I keep some reservation when people use the term “better” talking about SQ.
There’s a subjectivity issue 🙂
@@zengerz Yep and there's a price war going on for the under $100 dongle market right now. Ebay is your friend.
Just looked on Amazon and Fosi Audio has a DS2 model as well. It's cheaper too.
You know, looking up the dac chips the DS1 has a better Dac according to ESS.
When I had more money than I had sense, I bought the Cobalt because, well...because three hundred dollars, I mean it had to be the best out there, right. Now, my GR1s are really easy to drive, so I had no problems with it at all, but it seemed on a lot of bass heavy tracks, it would muddy up the mids, and it got to the point of distraction. Not too long ago, I got turned on to buddies iBasso DC04 and it was like magic. The resolution and clarity was magnificent. The high end sparkled, whereas the Cobalt was sort of meh, and the bass punched me in the face without any distortion at all. Again, this might come down to the headphones I was using. I put the cobalt up on Ebay, and it sold in a day. I'm gonna hang onto the DC04, though. It really, really opened up my classic rock collection.
Best option is a decent quality home cinema amp. Superior in every way to decent hi fi amp's. I have a beast of a Denon and an Onkyo and both of them push out oodles of high quality hi fi sounds.
How we lookin?
Given the audible distortion, the weird ringing in transients and the muddled presentation I’ve always been baffled by the praise for any of the Dragonflys, they’re all awful, no matter what the consensus is. And that’s before looking at the measurements. Granted, poor measurements are rarely audible, but with these, they align.
any alternatives that you would recommend???
For goodness sake! Review the Fosi Audio K4! You’re the Fosi Audio Man, come on. Don’t do the Q4. Do the K4. It’s the best…
Should I expect Iphone users here because they already spend way too much on apple products? Or should I not expect them because they refuse cheap?