VTC P.33 - Address Decoding the Hot Way
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- We’re making more progress on the tube computer, moving forward with our redesign based on the MC14500 Minimal ICU System. Last time we got some toggle switches and inverters made, and this time we’re adding some much more complex logic to that to get our address decoding taken care. We can then use what we build today to address input, output and scratch registers. It’s a pretty important building, so let’s get to it!
Tube Computer Wiki:
github.com/Nakazoto/UEVTC/wiki
MC14500 Single Board Computer:
• Playing a Game on a MC...
How I cut my PCBs:
• Machining a PCB on the...
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Intro Music adapted from:
Artist: The Runaway Five
Title: The Shinra Shuffle
ocremix.org/remix/OCR01847
Thanks for watching!
Chapters
0:00 Where we left off and where we’re going
2:32 Can we even do this thing?
4:39 What are we building today?
10:27 Let’s get building
12:24 Mistakes
14:28 Smoke test
15:30 Even more mistakes
16:40 A proper test drive
18:56 What’s next?
20:39 Koma-san! - Наука та технологія
The UE1 is such a cool project, I’m glad to see it making a return.
Thank you so much!
I'm excited to finally start bringing this thing towards an end goal!
This is a very cool project but we were promised hot, hot Bendix G-15 action. 😊
@@UsagiElectric Next project: Build a Bendix-style case for it!
I am always in awe of your beautiful PCB layouts. The rounded traces add a calm expression of flow. A well-designed piece of art in itself.
Thank you so much!
When building anything with tubes in 2023, it's definitely an art project, so the aesthetic of the piece is just as important as whether it works or not to me!
A really neat project. Tubes are awesome. I love the way all the little wires and stuff are welded together with nothing touching. Then vacuum sealed in the glass tube and neatly molded around the pins with no air leaking in. Awesome 👍
Man... Fear Inoculum was on solid repeat in my truck for well over a year when it came out. Amazing album with lots to digest, lyrically and musically.
Was really grateful to see them in concert in New Orleans on the last US date of that tour before they left for Australia... right when COVID outbreak happened.
I still remember the day I got it.. drove about an hour to my favorite lake to do some kayaking. Listened to it on the way there, and while boating. I will always remember how amazing that trip was. I saw them in Philly in November 2019. It was so great... 4 months later our world was thrown into chaos by a "contagion". I saw them again in 2022 after covid was pretty much over. We all joke that Tool brought the virus and then took it away.😂 Have a good one my friend!
65 Days of Static is awesome. Have been listening to them for 6 years. Highly recommended for when anyone is working on electronics.
They're really awesome, just great music to vibe out to while getting some solid work done!
I mainly listen to a mix of The Beatles, Rockafire Explosion, and assorted disco music
Your channel is starting to get really popular! I'm starting to see you all over the internet now. Just got done watching 8-bit guy and saw that he had just visited you. knowing I was one of your early subscribers is neat and now everybody's getting to know the channel.
Thanks for sticking with me through thick and thin as the channel grows!
Hopefully it keeps getting bigger and bigger!
I just finished watching 36 episodes of this over two days. About half way through, and after reading Ken's blog I thought "why don't you just implement the support chips and build the example from the datasheet?" Imagine my surprise at Ep 34 :) My (redundant) suggestion for the form factor would have been a concertina of boards, like those old school privacy screens used for changing behind. Around that time I also thought you should have had raised edges around the boards to protect the tubes in case it ever fell over :) Anyway, I look forward to seeing how you implement the ROM. Over the course of the episodes I saw the Patreon supporter list font get smaller and smaller, which along with your award from VCF is well deserved. This is very meaningful, engaging, and well presented content.
Thank you so much for the kind words!
I think the evolution of my hair throughout the episodes is probably the most wild thing, it even surprises me sometimes when I go back to check something on an older video, haha.
The paper tape ROM portion of the build is the part I'm most looking forward to. We're getting pretty close to getting the tube modules all built, which will get us really close to a fully functioning system! I'm actually headed out tomorrow to cut some more boards in prep for the next episode.
Both the hot way and the cool way. The paradoxical way! I love the project, it's a thing of beauty and a joy for ever.
Thanks! I'm just trying to cover the full range of temperatures, haha.
@@UsagiElectric looking forward to the lukewarm way
I can still remember being five-years-old and peering through the slits at the back of the TV and seeing all the valves glowing away. Absolutely hypnotising..
Just that VFD alone is gorgeous ! I wish I had one like that alone. (not to mention all the tube magic)
Usagi's intro today so reminded me of 1970s Open University programmes on BBC2 late at night
I only barely know what you're talking about but this tube computer project is really interesting to see unfold
Thank you so much!
This series of videos will become legendary.
Dude being from the UK and hearing you say 65dos are one of your favourites blows my mind!!! I once saw them play the whole of fall of math in a cathedral!!! Also I love explosions too!! Greetings from Wales love the channel even though I have no idea what most of the electronic jargon means!!! I just find this stuff super interesting!!
I have zero knowledge of any of this, but it is absolutely fascinating.
Loving this, and how you explained it! The paper tape is a VERY cool idea. Very much lookng forward to it. All good wishes.
Thank you so much!
I'm quite looking forward to getting the paper tape going, that'll exercise a totally different skill set and should be quite fun!
Nice!
In my first semester at the Uni, back in 1980, I learned the acronym DTL for logic circuits, it means "Diode Transistor Logic"., the predecessor of the TTL.
Now you gave it a new meaning, "Diode Tube Logic"!.😃
(Unrelated to video) I actually visited the System Source Computer Museum, it was great! Well worth my time.
They have a lot of interesting computers there. Because I’m a game developer, they actually asked if I could make a virtual reality emulator for some of the machines they didn’t have. I might do it, but I’m young enough that I’m not even in high school. Love your channel, keep it up!
Add this to you play list:
The Jazz Avengers. They are fab!
Bil, Ben, and Jeri were waiting for you on Friday. A bit of a shame you couldn't make it. Would have been an interesting interaction.
I know, I totally missed out on it! I was actually filming B Roll for this very episode during that. Next time Jeri's on, I'll make sure Bil sends me a reminder earlier!
20:45 Best part of the video! :)
Your builds have a unique and aesthetically pleasing look!
Hello to fellow 65DOS fan! Great video as always!
Thanks!
65DOS is amazing, they've been getting a lot of playtime lately!
Eagerly watching the UE1 VTC evolving, I would be interested in seeing how and what it ends up with. 🖥️💡
I've been listening to マキシマム ザ ホルモン a lot lately. So crazy, so fun!
So here's an idea... Invert the power to the toggle switches so that ON = connect to ground, so the switches are actually inverted electrically... that frees up the inverters on the switch board to be repurposed as a follower for your bus output... perhaps you need a jumper board over and back, but physically you probably want the switches and lights in close proximity to each other anyway... right?
A neat design and looking forward to your next video update.
Oh man I wouldn't mind hearing you go hours on about good music, great taste already!
Can't wait to see this actually running code, a stunning project and very educational.
I always love your content but when you mentioned Fear Inoculum, made me super happy to see a fellow tool fan!! (not that it's a rare sighting lol) Keep up the amazing content!
Can't wait to see more!
Me too! I have no idea what's next, haha.
Fear Inoculum!!! I heard you mention Adam Jones on a different episode. Knew you were probably a Tool fan. I'm seeing them for the 3rd time in November!👍👍
EITS!! hell yes! First breath after coma!
You had the 8 Bit Guy out to The Ranch, he didn't stick any paperclips in that Bendix machine, did he? 😅
somebody has to make a playlist of usagi, the only one i recognised was Animals as Leaders. and if the rest of it is like that, im keen. I love your layout dynamic. It soothes my engineer brain. for my own home projects, whenever I'm working with silicon, there is an urge to go dense and packed (i do 3d, dead bug, confusing contorted bricks, then pot in goop. if it works its incredible, otherwise you gotta start from scratch). but when working with tubes, I make Art. I want its guts to look pretty. not only sit on a shelf and glow lovely, but you can pick it up and look 'up its skirt' and see all the bits. square, colour matched, everything even... makes me happy. I almost always put my PSU's on a separate chassis, n just have flying lead filtered DC to my tubes. bah, 350v DC. if it kills me, meh, Im OK with that, I built it, my fault. still alive. on my headstone; 'The Electrons did it!'
Usagi playlist +1
Ooooh a 65DoS mention, yess. You might also love God is an Astronaut, also instrumental.
God is an Astronaut is an excellent band as well. They've gotten quite a bit of playtime during long translation work days!
@@UsagiElectric So glad to hear that :) same here! Just different work :)
Loving all your other videos, but I am happy that you are back here! I want AI on this 1bit computer!
12:00 ah man, Fear Inoculum by Tool is awesome!
It always amazed me how many things were able to be designed with vacuum tube technology. If you had the necessary skills (i.e. glassblowing, metalworking, etc.) you could even make them yourself. Not something you can really do with transistors. For that matter, even using point to point wiring with bus strips and metal chassis dominated before PCBs, crazy!
This guy makes his own IC's, Home Chip Lab - Sam Zeloof
@@user-nh6yd5nk8r sure, that's cool, but put him in 1900, there was no way to purify the materials needed to do that among many other issues that prevented semiconductors from being realized. What I'm saying is for 50 years pretty awesome things were built using vacuum tubes.
I enjoy seeing your work. 🤠
Hey, I dropped a comment on the 8-Bit Guy with a note about where to find tickertape (you mentioned you didn't know where to get it). I don't know that it would work to your specific specs, but it is inexpensive and easily available and I knew a fellow who refurbished antique financial tickers that used it.
Excellent, I'll check it out!
Animals as Leaders, 65 Days, Tool, Explosions In the Sky… excellent taste, good sir!
I see a lot of videos from you, but for some reason one idea stays in my mind.
And that idea is how mount the whole computer in a cabinet to ship and show easily.
Why not mount it in a bookshelf?. You can use every shelf to mount a big group of boards and you can use every shlef's face. I mean you can install one board in the upper face and others on the lower face. Double side tube pcb ? :).
Some of them are made with wire, looks like a grilles so no problem about air flow.
I don't understand a single word you say, but your boards and bulbs are pretty
Haha, thank you!
Hi. I know you’ve got a boatload of 6AU6 tubes, but a 12AX7 (or it’s pinout-compatible siblings, 12AU7/12AT7) has two triodes in one package, making a flip-flop in one tube possible. That, and the fact these tubes have a split-filament (2 6.3v filaments in series with a center tap), means you can keep the filament supply, AND reduce board area. The biggest problem is that the audiophile and guitar-amp guys like to snatch these up, and you’d need 9-pin sockets.
He's using individual pins instead of sockets so the heptal vs noval doesn't matter. The price is a much larger issue.
ANIMALS AS LEADERS!!!!!
Even though I took an electronics class in high school I’ve had a lot of difficulty comprehending what you are doing. It’s not you, it’s my ADHD brain. Squirrel!
What about copying the BENDIX Vacuum Tube Computer and reduce some of the gates into IN4007 diodes and resistors and use some of the vacuum tubes for other functions and a lot of the functions can be broken down into boards that could fit into a cabinet and use wire to connect the edge connectors that will accept the various PCB cards together to create the computer.
There's a lot of design choices that I started with a few years ago that I'm continuing along with in the interest of uniformity.
For the next tube computer project, UE-2, we'll definitely borrow a bit more inspiration from the Bendix!
This is so awesome.
This is enough address space to bitmap the best part of Atari Adventure, the dot! Full sprites soon I hope!
I have never even heard of those artists.
Definitely check them out, they're awesome!
Can you explain how the PCB cutting works?
There's a link in the description to a full video on how I make my PCBs!
The output register should really provide dry contact relay outputs rather than just lamps or logic level outputs. And given it's nature, it'd therefore be eminently reasonable to use relay-based flip-flops to store those output states, even if it requires faster vacuum tube logic to interface to the rest of the system.
I'd also suggest for a more industrial-control-appropriate input type, use ground-continuity inputs for the input register -- i.e. each input is a single wire that the system pulls to whatever arbitrary voltage it finds useful, and considers the input active if it's sinking or sourcing current as if it were connected to ground.
24V B+, nice!
Have you tried space charge tubes like the 6GM8?
aaa japanese to english you say... I finally get where the Usagi comes from :-)
i use a cnc controller ware that can map the surface, bcnc, it's free, set it to probe and it'd mill deeper when it comes to that low spot.
wondering what type of PCB mount socket pins are being used ? would help me a lot if I can source those socket pins. Thanks
They are little Harwin H3161 1mm PCB pin headers. You can find them on Mouser and Digikey relatively easily!
@@UsagiElectric Thanks
I'm curious as to what (other than great abundance and compact form factor) drove the decision to use 6AU6 tubes. They are RF-capable, and have sharp cutoff, so could likely make relatively good speeds while having desirable characteristics for digital operation. Are there other considerations that made them your choice?
Another question: I know the vacuum fluorescent displays are cool-looking, but could individual neon bulbs be driven by this system just as easily (or, perhaps, more easily)? Their turn-on/turn-off voltage thresholds can also serve as crude "memory" for your system. This might simplify certain buffering considerations and reduce your overall part count.
There were two things that led to the decision to use the 6AU6. The first was, as you guessed, availability and price. The 6AU6 is a dirt cheap tube that can often be found in huge quantities. Perfect for building a computer. The second was how well it performed at low voltages. I'm using just +24V and -12V here, which is very, very far out of the original design specifications of nearly every tube out there. I tested a ton of different tubes at these voltages, and there were a handful that performed really, really well. The 6DJ8, 7308, 6AU6, 6CL6, 6AS5 and 6BA6 all performed really well, but the 6AU6 was by far the most common and cheapest of the bunch.
And the incredibly low voltages actually leads into your question about neon bulbs. I actually would really have loved to use neon bulbs, but with just +24V and -12V available, it just isn't possible as most neons have a striking voltage of 70V+. I really wanted to keep everything on the board at a low voltage no matter what so that at shows and when demonstrating the system, there was zero danger to anyone. And to show that it could be done at low voltages, which I think is pretty unique. It has created a lot of difficult hurdles to overcome though!
@@UsagiElectric Thank you for the reply! I hadn't even considered the greater safety at low voltage (mainly because I didn't realize the 6AU6 would be reliable at a voltage that low! Wow!)
Japanese to English translator, so like ChiliTomatoNoodle here on youtube as well. He introduced me to Logisim with a series building a 32-bit? CPU in it. I think it was 32-bit, mighta been 16-bit. Then he started courses on teaching C++. But, his day job is, or was last time I checked, translating Japanese patents into English for Japanese companies.
bonobo and explosions in the sky are fabulous. do you listen to god is an astronaut?
Hi. Is the reason you have extra cathode followers for each inverter because you’re operating the tubes at such a low B+ voltage, or for fan-out, since each one feeds quite a few 3-input OR gates?
Do you have a paper tape punch machine to make new code? Not sure I've seen one in your collection
I do indeed!
I have a little Facit punch from the mid-80s. I needs some work, but that's a restoration project we'll tackle when we get that far!
wouldn't magnetic core memory be closer analoge to an eprom or is the support logic for core momory just that much more complicated? frame of wire with little beads would look pretty cool though
oh & even without flux you still need to clean after soldering with iso or eth & a toothbrush; The heat & oxygen causes the flux to oxidize, crystalize & conduct. You WILL see burn spots from the electrons just jumping around with time!
Other than the cool factor, is there a reason you decided to build it on a backing board instead of in a chassis?
You’ve probably mentioned this before but have to ask. Because damn seeing all those tubes in a chassis, with the link wire’s between the boards, that would be pretty cool
Your designs & methodology could use the tiniest bit of tweaking for a 5x increase in production value. No mask layer to prevent shorts. No flux used to prevent overheating. No tinning of the solder points to prevent cold joints. It's also good practice to have redundant power & ground layers as to prevent voltage variation & noise bleeding. You know, squeeze out those extra few khz
it is maybe possible to implement jump into a paper tape reader but it would take a long time to build and a adjustible motor speed and direction
Jump might be hard, but if you use loops of tapefor your program, you would not need direction control probably just someway to "halt" it. Essentially "tape running" = "program counter counting up". Just skip around forward until you get to where you wanted to go....like the pc in the single board computer would. You would need a a sort of program counter (tape byte counter?) to track where you are on the tape, and some way to indicate "start" (aka address zero) to reset your counter. This would work very similar to the single board computer rom + pc. The clock would clock off the paper tape sprocket. The harder thing might be adding another opcode for a jump if you don't want to remove an existing one. it would be a code that doesn't do anything to the processor, but uses external hardware to do the jump. Since all opcodes are in use already, this would mean adding another bit to the opcode, or appropriate an existing code that is less useful. Should not need speed or direction control to work.
you should buy a shipping container to get extra storage so you can get more stuff
Have you thought of using a diode array for the ROM?
Hey mate, what tube pin sockets do you use?
The 8-Bit Guy
Took me some time to understand that usage means rabbit
is it possible to make single pentode logic gate with both G1 G2 as inputs?
That's actually a really good idea, and something I tried a lot!
Unfortunately, the G2 and G3 grids are so sparsely wound, they're not capable of stopping electron flow (at least in the tubes I tested). However, pentagrid converters (or heptodes) like the 6BE6 are perfect for this as they have two control grids inside. They make excellent NAND gates. Unfortunately, they're a little hard to find in decent quantities, which makes it hard to build large scale computing projects with them.
@@UsagiElectric ECL gates use ~0.8V logic levels. maybe run tube in linear region not switching on/off.
I wonder if someone back in the 1950s tried to do this as a hobby project.
What is the end goal for this project? Are you aiming to be able to run a OS of some sort?
Perhaps you could use the soviet MTH-90 thyratron. They are very cheap. You would need HV, though
try some ozric tentacles for a lyric free addition to your sound track
Did I mention that you are my favourite lunatic on Ytube?
Genuinely want to know why you decided to invert the switches instead of just turning them around 180°
This was actually less for the switches and more for an external input. Instead of requiring that an external input have a strong, low impedance 24V, the inverters ensure that whatever external signal is coming in, it gets cleaned and sharpened up for use later in the system.
The switches are just there for when we don't have an external input hooked up.
You like Tool.
Nice.
cool
Thanks!
At the end of a long build and debug session where the last bit just isn't working - I'd flip it off too 😅.
Shame you couldn't find a Selectron tube for RAM. They are SO rare though... I've only ever seen 2 of the tubes pop up on ebay, and both went for a few grand each time.
👍
kool
👍👍👌👌
Why do you never mention the first programmable computer i.e. Colossus ?
Gonna build a relay computer next? That would be hilariously noisy.
Use Nuvistors.
I would love to build something with Nuvistors some day, the problem is availability. They're quite rare and hard to come by, and when building a computer, I'm going to need thousands of them!
@@UsagiElectric Hmmm. I didn't think in terms of thousands! I was going to suggest 6021 pencil tubes but all of a sudden none of these things are cheap anymore.
If you like Animals as Leaders you might also like Plini.
What? No tube diodes? Silicon is cheating😂
The Bendix G15 with its thousands of germanium diodes begs to differ :P
@@UsagiElectric you win🤣
As someone who is also distracted by lyrics in music while I work, I've found it sufficient to avoid music in English (as that's the only language I speak). One solution I especially prefer is an artist named _Deep Forest,_ where they use sampled religious chants and melodies from various indigenous peoples over ambient electronic instrumentation. No accidental tripping of my brain's "speech to be processed" interrupt handler by doing this, despite presence of human voices. And, it has the double benefit that I can listen around others at work or in public, and be reasonably certain I'm not masking offensive words in other languages. 😅
I just saw you did a video of the 8bit Guy. I used to be a fan of him but now I'd be very wary of working with him particularly with his views on the right to bear arms. He's exhibited some pretty toxic behavior, specifically in regards to calling out groups demanding gun control in the wake of Sandy Hook. He made a point of going out shopping while bearing a rifle " to make the steam come out of the ears" of gun control groups soon after.
Hi. Two questions. 1) Why dont you cooperate with PCBWay or JLCPCB for better quality PCB's? I'm sure they will support you. 2) I like bunnies too. We had many during my childhood. Every bunny had his name. But of course we ate them too. Do you eat them too?
Hello!
1. Machining my own PCBs makes a lot more sense in certain situations. The design often changes rapidly and the ability to design and make a new PCB in hours rather than weeks is massive. Also, I quite like the look of the homemade machined PCBs, it fits the vibe of the art project a lot better. I have worked with PCBWay on a few other projects, and will work with them for certain future projects, but for this one, I'm sticking with the machined PCBs.
2. No, we don't eat our bunny. Asking me that is a bit like asking someone if they eat their cat or their dog. Our little bunny is the light of our life, and just the thought of eating a bunny turns my stomach to knots.
No hate, but how old are you Usagi?
You have gray hair but litterally look and sound like your in your 20s lol.
I cant tell if your in your 40s, or if your just a 20 year old that likes to dye their hair gray lol.
Love your videos. You remind me of Curiousmarc!
serial terminal
Interestingly, one of the design goals is to get the paper tape moving at 45.5 bytes per second, because then we can bit bang a teletype, using it like a serial terminal!
including keyboard input
or just serial terminal emulation bus
@@UsagiElectric maybe make the tape reader optional, just use the serial terminal type action
@@UsagiElectric or maybe use tape as boot hard drive/rom alongside with serial terminal
2023 Steam Punk..
But can it run DOOM?
Sure, at approximately one frame every 10 years!
@@UsagiElectric 🤣🤣🤣