Great job explaining torque and how to keep the axle from rotating! Many people do not understand and they installed the torque arm on the wrong side of the fork...
@I'm Banned In Hidden He's talking about front or back of the fork, not left side or right side. You should probably install one on both the left and right sides.
luckily dropout is not so likely to break at 30kmh because torque is significantly less at that speed. The most torque is applied from stillstand and gradually become less gaining speed. But still, if the dropout brake at 5kmh still all hell will break loose:) very nice video! thank you for the great idea, Vuaeco! broke my dropout last week because thinking it would hold just for testing. Was using 54Volts on a 18Amp ESC... learning the hard way. Cheerz!
I installed a 350 watt front hub motor kit into an old steel bike frame. The kit did not come with a torque arm. After riding about 1000 miles, the dropout tabs spread wider, since they are thin and weak and shallow. This allowed the front wheel axle to rotate in the fork, wrapping the wire several times and the wheel stopped, it hurt me. I was surprised that the wheel still worked. I fixed it by fabricating reinforcing plates from 2 x 1.5 x 0.25 inch steel bar, using a saw and hand filing to a tight fit on the axle flats. I then clamped and welded the plates to the fork. The dropouts are much deeper and stronger now. It took a little time before I had the courage to ride full speed again, ha ha. I check the wheel often to be sure it is seated properly.
I think the torque arm is supposed to go on the other side of the dropout. As it is, the motor will pull forward on the dropouts a lot. On the back, I think it cancels out a bit. The importance of the torque arm is not emphasized enough considering how badly they can fail. I have had my torque arm on my steel forks working "fine" for the last 2 years and only recently noticed that they do have a lot of play in the up and down direction like you say!
YOu have a great idea by putting the washers & bolt so that the upper arm is not held only by weak hose clamps. But I think that the torque arm itself should be longer, say 8 inches. And and the top a U-bolt should be used to prevent the top from moving outward under stress. so your bolt & washers would be replaced by a U-bolt & washers.
I have a Bafang 1000 W mid Drive decided to put another 1000w hub on the front forks with a shunt mod Controller on a specialized mountain bike... I got it done yesterday and I excited to take it out right when I was about to hit the streets.. I gunned it and this thing takes off... the front hub motor has so much torque it snapped the Dropout on the forks..... threw me off the bike I thank God it was just in front of my house..... I was okay but it scared the shit out of me I can imagine if I was going 40 or 50 mph when thing broke. It would have been ugly... today I just bought a new Fork nothing happened to the hub motor now I'm going to follow your DIY.. anyone who has a front hub motor even a rear hub motor I suggest doing this torque arm DIY...
"For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction... So if you slap somebody on the right side if the face, slap them on the left side as well.." HA!
wow...... thank you very much for the informathen guy now i can make my own because i never order one for my hub thanks again.... two thumps up buddy.... amen
I bought a universal torque arm for my left side of my hub motor 1000w last fall and the wires are on the other side so I couldn't get a second torque arm cause I would have to take out all the hall sensor wires from the connector to slide them through the little hole it has. It lasted for a bit but yesterday after mashing the throttle from a dead stop at my friends house testing the new battery I got for any voltage sag snapped the front sides of the dropouts and my friend mentioned it was aluminum forks so I was thinking in investing into steel forks plus do what you did in this video. Do you have a recommendations?
Im so confused I have an ebay torque arm but I see so many people debating wether it goes in the front or the back. I installed it the “right way” which is in the back and 2 days later the wheel came off.
Do you need one for the other side or will that be strong enough? On the opposite side there is the cable coming out. I would have to make one with a slot instead of a hole because the connectors on the wire would not fit through a hole in the torq arm.
I would think that a regen motor would require torque control in both directions... you did address the main forward direction but regen will torque backwards as well.... no?
That's a very good point. Yes, regen will torque backward. If you have regen, you will need to have torque arm in both directions. This bike does not have regen so only forward torque is needed.
Nice video vuaeco. I was just thinking that if you secured the torque arm with a heavy duty hose clamp or something at the top of it then it would also keep it from moving in the opposite direction for braking and or regen. Also, shouldnt the wire coming out of the axle be going down too prevent water getting in? Great videos.Thanks.
True. But being a lawn mower blade, it does have some heavy duty rust proof paint already on it. The only part that needs paint is the side where I cut it. I'll give the side a spray or two. Thanks.
Lawn mower blades are made of hardened steel so that they can hold a sharp edge for a long time. The fabrication would have been easier using a piece of mild (a.k.a. low carbon) steel, which is what the commercial arms are made of in any case.
This torque arm has to withstand a great amount of force. That's why I chose to use a hardened carbon steel like this blade. You can use mild steel but make sure you use a thick plate or it might bend and twist your axle loose. I just didn't want to take a chance.
I understand you wanting to play it safe, plus wanting to use the material you already had. But I would not hesitate to use mild steel. If it is good enough for the commercial ones, it is good enough for me.
for even more safety I would use smaller washer/spacer between the arm and the last washer to prevent the roundness of the fork from "opening the door" if you get what I'm trying to say. great information and explanation of this crucial part of conversion thank you 😃
Yes, part of the secret has to do with the distance from the center of the axle to the failure point. In your case, that distance would be small (basically just the radius of the axle) and his distance is large, about 2 inches or something. We're talking about torque here, torque is measured in force x distance, the distance part of that equation is the distance I just described. You want that distance to be high to create a torque value that can't be exceeded by the torque of the motor.
Your picture looks like the axle is directly below the fork, isn't it? You can make an L shape metal bracket and rest it on the fork above, can you not?
My pleasure. I would imagine use the same rectangular piece of metal then cut out one corner so it gets out of the way of the fork above but still rest on the fork above it (hence the L shape bracket).
Possibly. But it has to go all the way across as the folk is round, not flat. So maybe you'll need to make the metal bracket a bit longer. And you will probably have to cut the bent part round so it would hug the folk or it might slip. I can't imagine that easier than a bolt and washers, though.
It's very funny video.but you are wrong it need to be placed on the other side the back for it to have any use, I am very sure. And buy bigger drill bits.😁
It's been 3 years and still kicking. I've pushed over 2000W of power through this motor and it's still working so far. (it's only rated for 1000W). I might have done it wrong but it's working! :D
It's just a relative term. Aluminum is a soft metal compared to other bikes that have carbon steel frames. Aluminum is not soft compared to lead but aluminum is soft compared to steel. If your bike does not have a quick release, the dropouts are different.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
How's the torque arm holding up?
It's been 6 years and it's still holding up fine even after I upgraded the battery to 60V with max speed up to 35 Miles/hr.
@@vuaeco you gave me an idea, I think I might be able to use a 10mm wrench.
@@jskyg68 "FORK" - ah, now it makes sense.
@@jskyg68 That's brilliant. I am going to try that.
@@jskyg68 you bloody genius!
"the worst case scenario, it will break my dropout and i will fall off my bike at 30mph, and I will die". That escalated rather quickly
I wish I had that. I learned a lot watching your videos especially on the controllers.
it is realistic too
Great job explaining torque and how to keep the axle from rotating! Many people do not understand and they installed the torque arm on the wrong side of the fork...
@I'm Banned In Hidden He's talking about front or back of the fork, not left side or right side. You should probably install one on both the left and right sides.
Very excellent explanation of what a torque-arm is supposed to do. Thanks for taking the time to make it and sharing.
A pleasure.
Now that's a torque arm. Well done.
luckily dropout is not so likely to break at 30kmh because torque is significantly less at that speed. The most torque is applied from stillstand and gradually become less gaining speed. But still, if the dropout brake at 5kmh still all hell will break loose:) very nice video! thank you for the great idea, Vuaeco! broke my dropout last week because thinking it would hold just for testing. Was using 54Volts on a 18Amp ESC... learning the hard way. Cheerz!
I installed a 350 watt front hub motor kit into an old steel bike frame. The kit did not come with a torque arm. After riding about 1000 miles, the dropout tabs spread wider, since they are thin and weak and shallow. This allowed the front wheel axle to rotate in the fork, wrapping the wire several times and the wheel stopped, it hurt me. I was surprised that the wheel still worked. I fixed it by fabricating reinforcing plates from 2 x 1.5 x 0.25 inch steel bar, using a saw and hand filing to a tight fit on the axle flats. I then clamped and welded the plates to the fork. The dropouts are much deeper and stronger now. It took a little time before I had the courage to ride full speed again, ha ha. I check the wheel often to be sure it is seated properly.
Awesome idea! I'm custom making a bracket for my chopper ebike but also adding the holes for a front disc brake. This will help so much!
I'm really enjoying your videos....looking forward to the rest of the series. love your sense of humor too.
Thanks Gregg. And thank you everyone for nice comments. I really appreciate them.
Thank you for helping me understand the complete dynamics involved.
I think the torque arm is supposed to go on the other side of the dropout. As it is, the motor will pull forward on the dropouts a lot. On the back, I think it cancels out a bit. The importance of the torque arm is not emphasized enough considering how badly they can fail. I have had my torque arm on my steel forks working "fine" for the last 2 years and only recently noticed that they do have a lot of play in the up and down direction like you say!
Excellent, I made 2, one for each side out of 6mm plate, works a treat, doesn’t look pretty but does the job, them 2 piece things off eBay look crap
That´s the smartest solution !!! Well done !!! Congratulations !!!
Waste of time , just use key wrench with stainless grade clamp . In 5 minute you done !
Great creation, Brother! Keep it coming and share with us.
Great idea. I need to get some old mower blades and make a lot of my own torque arms!
YOu have a great idea by putting the washers & bolt so that the upper arm is not held only by weak hose clamps. But I think that the torque arm itself should be longer, say 8 inches. And and the top a U-bolt should be used to prevent the top from moving outward under stress. so your bolt & washers would be replaced by a U-bolt & washers.
I have a Bafang 1000 W mid Drive decided to put another 1000w hub on the front forks with a shunt mod Controller on a specialized mountain bike... I got it done yesterday and I excited to take it out right when I was about to hit the streets.. I gunned it and this thing takes off... the front hub motor has so much torque it snapped the Dropout on the forks..... threw me off the bike I thank God it was just in front of my house..... I was okay but it scared the shit out of me I can imagine if I was going 40 or 50 mph when thing broke. It would have been ugly... today I just bought a new Fork nothing happened to the hub motor now I'm going to follow your DIY.. anyone who has a front hub motor even a rear hub motor I suggest doing this torque arm DIY...
Great video and well done on making this torque arm, hope its working ok for you.
"For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction... So if you slap somebody on the right side if the face, slap them on the left side as well.." HA!
i think i been here 3 years, great build, u helped alot of people. A very expensive one grin technologies just invented. Cnc.
Nice design. No criticism but I'd suggest replacing that top nut with the nylon insert, only because I've had the nylon threads fail everytime.
Way cool! Thank you from NC usa. My ebike front hub wrenched itself off the forks. Luckily, not broken.
wow...... thank you very much for the informathen guy now i can make my own because i never order one for my hub thanks again.... two thumps up buddy.... amen
What about the torque arm on the side where the wires come out of the axle?
You need to mass produce and sell these, as you have the simplest and best design!
I bought a universal torque arm for my left side of my hub motor 1000w last fall and the wires are on the other side so I couldn't get a second torque arm cause I would have to take out all the hall sensor wires from the connector to slide them through the little hole it has. It lasted for a bit but yesterday after mashing the throttle from a dead stop at my friends house testing the new battery I got for any voltage sag snapped the front sides of the dropouts and my friend mentioned it was aluminum forks so I was thinking in investing into steel forks plus do what you did in this video. Do you have a recommendations?
My aluminum folk works fine with the torque arm I made. I pulled 2000W on the motor on the 60V test with no problem.
Im so confused I have an ebay torque arm but I see so many people debating wether it goes in the front or the back. I installed it the “right way” which is in the back and 2 days later the wheel came off.
Very well explained!
Would this apply to rear hub also same side .
Do you need one for the other side or will that be strong enough? On the opposite side there is the cable coming out. I would have to make one with a slot instead of a hole because the connectors on the wire would not fit through a hole in the torq arm.
Is there any way that you can post a template for the hole to cut out for the axel?
Good thanks for making this.
I would advice to harden that piece after you fit it.
wow you killed a lot of tools for that one torq arm
It's harder than I thought.
What about regenerative braking?
I would think that a regen motor would require torque control in both directions... you did address the main forward direction but regen will torque backwards as well.... no?
That's a very good point. Yes, regen will torque backward. If you have regen, you will need to have torque arm in both directions. This bike does not have regen so only forward torque is needed.
thanks Buk Lau
LMAOOO
Nice video vuaeco. I was just thinking that if you secured the torque arm with a heavy duty hose clamp or something at the top of it then it would also keep it from moving in the opposite direction for braking and or regen. Also, shouldnt the wire coming out of the axle be going down too prevent water getting in? Great videos.Thanks.
Waste of time , just use key wrench with stainless grade clamp . In 5 minute you done !
Beautiful... good to go !
well done Mr . =]
im subbing now just cause i love the accent
Is it safe to put a 500w motor on front suspension fork?
Only one thing that you forget is to paint this arm with rust proof paint.
True. But being a lawn mower blade, it does have some heavy duty rust proof paint already on it. The only part that needs paint is the side where I cut it. I'll give the side a spray or two. Thanks.
Excellent explanations.
😂👏 my plugs was so big didn't feel like unsoldering so I end up using steel hook turnbuckles and some hose clamps 🙃 but I like your way better 😶
Don't file or rasp in both directions. Take your time and only file forwards and lift up on the back stroke. I learned this in third grade.
Lawn mower blades are made of hardened steel so that they can hold a sharp edge for a long time. The fabrication would have been easier using a piece of mild (a.k.a. low carbon) steel, which is what the commercial arms are made of in any case.
This torque arm has to withstand a great amount of force. That's why I chose to use a hardened carbon steel like this blade. You can use mild steel but make sure you use a thick plate or it might bend and twist your axle loose. I just didn't want to take a chance.
I understand you wanting to play it safe, plus wanting to use the material you already had. But I would not hesitate to use mild steel. If it is good enough for the commercial ones, it is good enough for me.
My commercial ones that I got from ebay are stainless steel, very hard.
Use an angle grinder to make your torque arms, much easier !
Nice Job !!, Now round off the corners and Paint.
Genius! Yes thank you!
excellent! you circumcised the beet root powder!
Great work i love your videos thank you
for even more safety I would use smaller washer/spacer between the arm and the last washer to prevent the roundness of the fork from "opening the door" if you get what I'm trying to say.
great information and explanation of this crucial part of conversion
thank you 😃
Good video! i'm gonna do this soon.
My drop out is made of thick steal, do I still need a torque arm?
Yes, part of the secret has to do with the distance from the center of the axle to the failure point. In your case, that distance would be small (basically just the radius of the axle) and his distance is large, about 2 inches or something. We're talking about torque here, torque is measured in force x distance, the distance part of that equation is the distance I just described. You want that distance to be high to create a torque value that can't be exceeded by the torque of the motor.
Smart ...very smart !
Liked/Subscribed !
My hub motor axle is not at that perfect angle. Can the hub motor be turned by hand to a better angle to install torque arm?
This is typical of many bikes. What angle is your axle at?
about 20 degrees
Your picture looks like the axle is directly below the fork, isn't it? You can make an L shape metal bracket and rest it on the fork above, can you not?
Going to give it a try. Thanks, vuaeco!
My pleasure. I would imagine use the same rectangular piece of metal then cut out one corner so it gets out of the way of the fork above but still rest on the fork above it (hence the L shape bracket).
Great video well done
Could have probably just bent the top over as a stop and get rid of the bolt and washers...
Possibly. But it has to go all the way across as the folk is round, not flat. So maybe you'll need to make the metal bracket a bit longer. And you will probably have to cut the bent part round so it would hug the folk or it might slip. I can't imagine that easier than a bolt and washers, though.
vuaeco, you are right, but it would look better and be lighter...
Glue on the threads as well !
Did you add a torque arm to both sides or just one?
Just one.
very good
Excellent!
STEEL IS HARDENED SPRING STEEL, OLD ONE LEGGED JOSEPH T.
Why not use a steel hinge plate. Just cut off the pin brackets....
vuaeco is one very smart man!
those amazon torque bars held together with a hose clamp is a joke.
this is how you do it
Don't use hardened steel to cut hardened steel.
ingenious
slap him in the other side..... lol lol lol that alone deserved a like!
What are de dimensions of the hole?
I can't remember on the top of my head but it's in the video if you watch it carefully
@@vuaeco youre right in 8:26 you say is 10 x 14 mm tks
You can also rotate stator as rotor. Watch my video..
wel dan.e
keep gowing
dimitri christriaens 48o
Getto AF but I like it.
Sure, it's Getto, but it's 10x stronger than any torque arm on the market.
Drill some fancy holes in it make it look trick.
It's very funny video.but you are wrong it need to be placed on the other side the back for it to have any use, I am very sure. And buy bigger drill bits.😁
It's been 3 years and still kicking. I've pushed over 2000W of power through this motor and it's still working so far. (it's only rated for 1000W). I might have done it wrong but it's working! :D
Euhm, he has done it right... Please double check your ebike before hitting the road
@@insevanhouts I agree. He has it on the right side of the fork. The opposite side would only work if the bike was traveling in reverse!
His fitted it correct
It's turn the other cheek not slap them on both sides of the face ... Peace be Steel and Shalom
It was a joke!
Nice
Waste of time , just cut a key wrench and hold it up with stainless grade clamp . In 5 minute you done !
skydrones2012 it looks nice and tidy though
Hi. What is a key wrench? I think we have different words over here for the same thing. Could it be a box end wrench or an open end wrench?
What is a glade clamp?
@skydrones2012😂Do a video of it and prove it .
Till then the guy in this video is believable.
You, not so much.
on the back of fork not the front
Youre wrong, it wouldnt work at all.
Go back to school Vmax Jim. Gerardo is correct..
your wrong
bzdura, koło kręcąc się do przodu nie ma zabezpieczenia tylko do tyłu ma
Goo wok👍
Weld it the better.
spitting out bible verses like a rap....sick rapper
aluminum is not a soft metal and buy a frame meant to a ebike mines does not have the same design its mutch different and its rear hub
It's just a relative term. Aluminum is a soft metal compared to other bikes that have carbon steel frames. Aluminum is not soft compared to lead but aluminum is soft compared to steel. If your bike does not have a quick release, the dropouts are different.
vuaeco its not a quick release and how so you break in front tire that's my best brake a 180mm disc brake
Yet another improper installation of a Torque arm, beware of bad videos like this and do your homework.