Personality Disorders & “Lower-Level Brain Functioning” ( 3 Non-Mentalizing Modes) | BATEMAN
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2023
- We all have them -- but the more we do, the more personality disordered we might be. Anthony Bateman describes the three modes of non-mentalizing -- psychic equivalence, teleological thinking and pretend mode, also known as inside-out, outside-in and bubble mode -- and how to approach them in treatment with antisocial, narcissistic and borderline patients.
Anthony Bateman is one of the creators of Mentalization-Based Treatment (MBT) for personality disorders (BPD, NPD, etc).
If you need more wisdom: Bateman, along with Peter Fonagy (who is also on our channel), wrote the books "Psychotherapy for Borderline Personality Disorder" & "Mentalization-Based Treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder," among many other writings.
For a taste of Fonagy -- "How a Borderline Individual is Created" --: • How a Borderline Perso...
For more information about BORDERLINE, the feature-length documentary we made about BPD, please visit: borderlinethefilm.com
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After 83 years as a lost bubble child, I have never grown up, never had an adult relationship with others including my parents, wives, children. I am a highly educated perpetual child, wearing various masks to hide from fear of others and the pain of living.
Thanks for sharing this, and for your honesty. -P
That breaks my heart.
it's never too late. wishing you the best
What a brave woman . I'm you at 64
I was diagnosed with 3 personality disorders (ASPD+NPD+BPD) which is frustrating to tell people because it sounds unrealistic or implausible but that was from a forensic psychologist.
I'm in my late 30's now and never really been able to keep a job in my life... dozens and dozens - probably close to or approaching 100 if I counted every time I was hired.
I draw disability for the BPD now and it's a relief - I appreciate the take on 'lower level brain functioning' and glad there's some awareness for the struggles... very frustrating to look and seem 'normal' but your brain just doesn't work properly.
Thanks for this. Wishing you well. -P
@@BorderlinerNotes Well thank you - and you as well, take care.
Was getting the BPD disability hard? I was denied the 1st go around with the SSDI psychiatrist stating he thought I was suffering more from ptsd. Well, yes it would seem like that if those were questions he kept asking. I have an attorney now who filed for round 2 but I’ve spoken to him once for my signature to pay and my dr/med and similar info. That was months ago. I just lost another job after only 2 weeks. Im wondering how many rounds did you go? Anything special you may have been told? Those types of things, if you don’t mind my asking? Thanks and best wishes
@@k.mihalic8945 It sounds like the process is a bit different where you are - I'm sorry they're giving you such a hard time.
"I just lost another job after only 2 weeks" - this is painfully familiar, I hear you.
What I did when applying to the disability program in my province (Canada) was show a physical copy of the diagnosis (ordered medical records from the hospital) and came across as quite blunt:
I was a little jarring and sudden with my language and filling it out "life is very hard for me - I can't keep a job, this would change my life"
I didn't say much... just very to the point and came across as exasperated - which as you know is genuine.
I'm not sure how different it is for you where you are but that's what I did and was approved first application... I would say be honest and blunt as I was and stay dogged.
Good luck.
@@k.mihalic8945 Nice to hear the practical help from others here. All I know is a resource that might be helpful in the States is NAMI, I have only gone to the support group for people with loved ones with mental illness but in doing so I know there are some who have dealt with the system extensively and can give tips on that kind of information regarding SSDI and so on FWIW.
i love stories like pinocchio and the velveteen rabbit which bring to life this idae of moving from fake/pretend to real. Whats hard is to allow the other person to exist in the room it feels like losing, you have to go back to the small loser that needed the narcissitic defense... its feels like others "have it" and you don't - never will. Secure attachment is the pearl of great price.
I wish I could be in this group therapy he speaks of.
This man is reading me to filth! Need more from him haha
I am guessing you mean that like the song "strumming my pain with his fingers.. singing my life with his song .. killing me softly with his song"?
You crack me up Mark. -P
More Dr. Bateman please! You were both super on-point for this interview, thank you so much
I found this very helpful. I’ve felt very stuck in pretend mode lately. A perhaps dramatic, but I think apt analogy: it’s like being in a prison, surrounded by funhouse mirrors - no windows to the outside world.
I wonder if another person with some kind of distorted function along these lines might actually reinforce it too, but come across as 'support.'
@@markc5960 I think so.
Wow, I feel called out and I rarely ever feel called out because of my ‘lower level brain functioning’ even when someone is calling me out. I can see why this doctor came up with this therapy and it’s too bad it isn’t more available.
Soooo interesting, I get so much comfort from this channel. It's nice to understand how good behaviour is so rooted in how well someone had such a quality reinforced. It's kind of freeing to admit that some people just don't have those abilities, and hopeful to hear that they can develop them.
some environments can be helpful to develop high self esteem, some are tough. I believe it is important to see that our caregivers are no gods anymore but just normal people like us, seeking love, doing their best and making a lot of mistakes on the way. Maybe today we even know some (or a lot of) things better than them?!
@@lorenzrosenthal119 I think that's true, there is more education and psychological awareness, for a lot of people it's probably out of sheer necessity. And collectively I believe there is a lot more that's needed but obviously everyone commenting here has more awareness and it's a great start if nothing else.
❤ I'm so greatful for this channel
I think it's worth pointing out the possibility and experience of non-mentalizing modes in the context of a group. Specifically I'm thinking of self-help based groups that may not have this awareness or be guided by a clinician that is even aware of these patterns let alone be able to facilitate work on it. It's interesting that he talks about the experience of a second group member agreeing that the first one was not being threatening or aggressive and that they have to get out of the chair. But more generally I'm thinking of the 'fake it until you make it' mentality. If a certain population is likely to have or experience non-mentalizing modes then the accepted behavior is simply a matter of conformity, in the sense that one can conform to the outline of the program and then in terms of teleological thinking/outside in, social conformity. Maybe it's even internalized so much that it's not conformity but they really 100% see that as reality.
So in that scenario we might imagine if somebody is always talking the language of the self-help program whereas other(s) naively believing (raise my hand) it's possible to have others understand one's experience and sharing something personal, but in reality it is going to be this concrete inside out or outside in interpretation - that's just not going to work and may even result in a rather negative experience to say the least. At times I've listened to the Eric Clapton song 'Pilgrim' which has the words 'removed from all the people - who could never understand' , I didn't know how true that is until I watch this video. I don't believe that is going to be 100% in an absolute way but it could be quite pronounced in a given context, and I'm just considering the possibility that the majority or the dominant perspective is coming from a non mentalizing mode.
Sooooo good! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
This is so helpful. Thank you.
Man, thank God for your channel
Great stuff 👍
This treatment is brilliant! I signed up for the intro training and plan on doing the other trainings.
Thank you for making this extremely valuable information available. I wish more people would become aware of this just as general psychological literacy, and I guess 2.8k views in 2 days is pretty good though certainly could be better.
I wonder how much online communication via abstracted text based social media platforms might lend itself to at least psychic equivalence, just because there would not be direct feedback from the physical environment such as another persons body language that would call the story into question - I would be curious to hear others observations.
What a beautiful conversation..... it was a pleasure to watch the exchange and while these are new concept for me I felt a connection with all three as well as surrendering the complexities of psycho analysis to those more accomplished in that respect. I engage my intellect and instantaneously I slip into that bubble. Pretend mode is simple.... martin Luther king.... I dreamed a dream.... as soon as that sensation awakens I feel as though God has beseeched me because that's the meglomanical spike of delight that my brittle esteem needs to encounter exaltation.... narcissistic eh.... but it never quite crystallised in respect to my personality more over I thought it was affection. Self-affection.....and the errantcy of NEEDING what only a GAWD could VALIDATE..... selfish....self-seeking and self-centered in the extreme..... we cut ourselves off from the outside world....
Admirable guys.... you've given me perspective and that is the kind of exchange I aspire to have someday... either as a master or apprentice..... lol their I go again.... but that wasn't pretend now was it.....🎉
Love this guy!
I had a tough time following him. What he says is over my head. 🤔
People that suffer from NPD are more prone to push their pretend mode into the telelogical mode? For example, they know if they find themself talking the talk most of the time they have to try to walk the walk to keep a balance so their narrative does not get out of hand and put their experienced state of grandiosity in social doubt. It can be a driver for reaching career goals and in their mind becoming better than everybody else.
Hey , what are the affect on pwbpd of getting abandoned and rejected by their closest person...? One of mine friend have it and after this she is behaving very strange after saying everything is good and i don't talk to anybody.
Can this fear increases after getting abandoned or they'll just change ?
Can you guys do a video on CPTSD and it’s possible connection to BPD?
I think there might be one, there's a way to do a keyword search for the channel.
We've got several vids on this; one is here: ua-cam.com/video/jnWooT_7Dy8/v-deo.html
The Self as insight... hyper mentalizing as usual : )
He lost heaps of weights
This is exactly how reddit works. If you maintain and protect your position you will get banned.
I think online platforms can amplify and encourage these modes, certainly of the inside out variety from Psychic Equivalence since we're not there with the people in person, in which case there may be feedback from the physical environment that would inform the person things are not as they imagine. Even just off the top of my head I can see a combination of that and bubble mode may play out online and not questioned. I imagine there's too much cognitive dissonance and of course those with admin privileges would use it.
the disconnect between british and mellican culture is so uncomfortable here. exposes american inability to calibrate.
Narcissists never ever take into consideration the feelings of the other person. Ever. Not capable. It is ALWAYS about them. They think the world revolves around them. Unless it is to blame the other person for their own actions and behaviours they don't even see the other.
Spot on.!!!
We are working, on this channel, with people with the NPD diagnosis and I hope the material we put out in the future will upend some of your perspectives.
@BorderlinerNotes you're doing a great job, it's a complex topic on the internet. Some people just love using armchair psychology, they feel better about throwing around this condition as an insult.
Sorry. I have NPD and your entire summary is incorrect. I think you've watched too many UA-cam fake narcissist 'doctors'. You might be surprised to know that we do feel empathy, we do consider the feelings of other people and we don't always blame others for our own actions. What you're describing is probably the most extreme behaviour of a psychopath. Stick around this channel for a while and you might actually get to know the truth behind the social media 'evil monster' mask.
Their main sin is the lack of empathy and the desire to cause the other person to feel pain in order to control them. Otherwise - they are very unaware and they are very sick. There is no point trying to portray an npd as a demon of sorts
Great video. I can definitely see how pretend mode accompanies narcissism. Sad it’s so hard to crack.