Monarch 10EE Restoration 1: Removing the Bed of the Lathe for Grinding
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- Опубліковано 19 вер 2021
- Monarch 10EE Restoration 1: Removing the Bed of the Lathe for Grinding
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Can't wait to see this go back together!
Cool. I have been looking forward to the 10ee project!
"Dont get too excited"... to late for that.
You should convince Keith to CNC it!
@@BajaBill7 Hell no. That would be like airbrushing the Mona Lisa!
It's a lovely looking machine, which I bet will be super nice to operate.
...but I'm willing to bet that you'd pronounce the word Monarch in a completely different odd way @RotarySMP, given the way you pronounce the word Linux 😀
Hello Keith, I have a shop tip for you, that i have used in my shop for years. When you are doing a tear down of any kind. Get a box of quart zip lock bags for the shop. As you tear something down, Use the bags to store the bolts and label them from where they came from. This way during reassembly you will have a reference to where they came from. Enjoy your channel.
Are you really sure you want to replace the motor-generator. I have a 1942 round dial and it's really superb!
I foresee Lance coming back to help with the scraping of the bed.
Lance will be the traveling lathe guru.
Awesome. A pleasure to watch
Game plans are Good.
GOOD LUCK
I think Lance was refering to KB electronics. I love my KB vfd. Cheers
Looking forward to seeing the Horizontal Boring Mill restoration project. As always, so many projects & so little time.
Is that the chap who was measuring the flatness of surface plates a year or two ago? Useful chap in any case.
Very cool a lot FUN
That potentiometer deserves it's own video !!
Awe Keith you don't like living dangerously? LOL. With collecting antique tractors I've got one that got stalled in restoration since 1993. Life got in the way as did health, fire, death, etc. It's all straight forward to go back together again though.
I love the art deco shape.
I’ve never clicked on one of your videos so fast!! I’m looking forward to this rebuild series
I just finished my model A monarch, looking forward to the restoration on yours. Very interesting. Great video Keith, keep'um coming.
Way cool, I would love to see that. Much love for the Monarch for the beauty like a Hindy that most young folks have no idea about and should. I love seeing the younger generation learn of our skills and get to use it...
Been running my 10EE since 1988 so I'll be paying close attention to all videos on this one...thanks!
Boy, this was one of the most interesting videos I have ever watched! I can't wait to see this lathe being restored, I just love the old machinery and how well it was made compared to modern stuff.
The two of you were having so much fun together!
FINALLY!!! We’ve been waiting for years for you to begin this restomod!!!
Great editing Keith, love this series!
just to let you know in advance. Monarch used two different electronic drives on the double E. If it has tubes in the drive there is little chance of repairing it. The other was solid state, and at least you can still buy some of the parts, but nothing from Monarch! I learned the hard way on this. Ended up replacing it with a Euro Drive, but was low on power. Last I heard the only tubes you can get are out of Russia.
It’s nice to see you and Lance working together. Collaboration is awesome!
Lance very nice of you to help all the folks you help a good man. Keith looking forward to the series.
Soo happy to see this started! It will take some time, gotta wait in line of course but at least its now in the line.
Hiya Keith
Have you priced spindle bearings yet?
A beautiful machine of solid design from yesteryear.....exciting project....thanx for sharing....
It would be a nice “ object de art “ just sitting in the shop all painted up!
JIM
A comment on the drive: There are two basic kinds of DC electric motors: series and shunt. Series motors have enormous starting torque and the speed is controlled by the load. Automobile starting motors are of this type. You note a high speed sound of the starting motor when it does not engage it’s load properly. Electric fork lifts use this type of motor. Series motors use the load to control the speed. Vacuum cleaner motors are of this type and although they are AC they need to be attached to their fan to control the speed.
The other type, shunt motors also have high starting torque but they control their own speed and do not need a load to prevent run away. Armatures have very little resistance, a locked rotor will quickly pop the breaker. But these motors also are generators. As the armature turns it generates a voltage opposite to the applied armature voltage and at some speed the voltages will balance and speed increase will stop. This idea is sometimes referred to as “back EMF” and misunderstood as a bad thing. When the motor slows because of a load then the voltage being generated is reduced and the motor will draw more current to carry the increased load.
I know that the Monarch 10EE Motor has a series field in addition to the shunt field but the effect of this series field is secondary to the basic operation.
I'm not sure why, but that was an absolute joy to watch.
These are some blockbuster restorations you've got on the go!
Hi Keith, nice job on the tear down, I have a question for Lance if you can relay it, I have a 53 square dial 10ee and the tach has stopped. I was running the lathe in reverse and when changed to forward the tach stopped. The tach is a 4 screw type and I have removed the screws but the tach will rotate but will not come out. Is there a keeper or oil seal holding it in? thanks for any help.
I really enjoyed having Lance join you for this episode; the two of you make a good team. Please do more collaborations with him.
I do find it entertaining, the way you chaps pronounce "monarch" - like Monn-ark, where we in England (which actually has a monarch) say it more like Monn-uck.
For what it's worth, I'm no fan of the monarchy in Britain or in principle, but I would love to understand why this word is pronounced so differently on different sides of the Atlantic ocean.
Fascinating video as always!
I need friends like yours Keith. Everytime I have a project all my friends seem to be on vacation or call me with a cough and fever coming??? Lucky You!!!
Super excited about your 10EE restoration!
Please provide more information on the DC drive in your plan. Great video... long awaited.
Great video Keith, Always love hanging out with you!!! I got to learn some of the differences between the round and square dials. Safe travels, I know you will have blast up there!!!
This was the lathe that I ran when I served my apprenticeship back in the '70s. I have represented a machine tool distributor that represented Monarch as a sales guy. I saw proposals to reman and update the electrics by Monarch in the $65K range. When I ran them their electronic drive used vacuum tubes about 12" in height, of course, that's all gone now. These are the Rolls Royces of machine tools. As smooth as silk and absolutely dead accurate. A guy couldn't blame his machine.
If I am correct this lathe was DC variable speed. Wondering where did the DC come from? I know in big cities at that time DC was available.
Perhaps the DC was generated in the machine?
Can you shed some light on this?
Thanks, JIM
My 1956 10EE still has the original tube drive. 2 C16Js for armature. 2 3C23s for field. 0-245 vdc for armature followed by 120-25 vdc on the field (field weakening gives 100:1 speed range - 40 to 4000 rpm useful range before backgear)
It looks like much of the ELSR on Keith's lathe was stripped - that was the top bar through the saddle to the box on the front of the headstock. It's a cool system to help you thread fast or to thread or bore in a blind hole.
Hope there's going to be Moglice for the saddle. I did mine that way almost 20 years ago and it holds the same accuracy it had after I rebuilt it.
This video shows old mercury filled tube rectifiers. I don’t know if this is exactly what was used for this lathe, but I’ve seen old electric cars where these were used in the battery charger. ua-cam.com/video/2pDcv6g1FE0/v-deo.html
@@jamanjeval There's only one mercury rectifier in the 10EE tube drive, a smallish EL1C. The thyratrons used for the motor armature and field are xenon and mercury vapor respectively.
@@jamanjeval Thank you, JIM
I have no idea why but. like many others I have really been looking forward to seeing this beauty brought back to life.
I will be following this rebuild pretty closely. I have a 10EE in great shape, 3, 4, and collet chucks. I am trying to get a floor poured in my new shop building so I can set and level my lathes. All $300 purchases needing rebuilt. I also picked up a K.O. Lee grinder to rebuild. At least a decade worth of work, lol.
I really enjoy watching and rewatching your videos and can't wait to get mine out there. I will be binge watching for a while!!
hi, just a heads up, when using impact tools you should wear eye protection and use only impact sockets and extensions, just remember you only get one pairs of eyes, and dog food is expensive?
Managing parts - always my biggest challenge when something takes a day or two. Years? Wow! 90 minutes of work in a 36 minute video. Practically real time. Thanks for the video.
hey can you include a picture of the lathe bed from downside in your next video. I couldn't find any pictures like such on the internet.
I'm going to be starting my own Chanel and its times like this that you can learn some un intended things like your mic setup Keith what are you useing that we hear every breath you take I'm thinking you have something on yer shirt and do you know if you could use something like what I think it's called a parabolic Mike that can pic up both of you equally?
Confirmed: Blue T-Shirt and Khaki shorts are mandatory attire required for this sort of work.
I like your gantry crane and need to buy one for my shop. Looks pretty skookum. What brand and model?
I really, really, hope Keith can follow through with the goal of making this one near perfect! He's so pressured under normal conditions, he tends to work toward "good enough", and that's a legit approach. For this one... it deserves extra special precision attention! :). Looking forward to it, when it bubbles up on the to-do list.
Worth commenting on, didn't hit "mother may I"
I'm brand new to Machining and was just given a monarch EE. I'm looking forward to watching you restore it. My first impressions of my lathe is that they are an electrical nightmare LOL. I have the square dial version.
What you think about Colchester lathe machine. And
How rpm meter work in monarch lathe machine.
Lance is a great guy.. Very helpfull !
Nice to see you get to the 10EE! Looking forward to the eventual restoration.
Can’t wait to see this one Keith. I was hoping you would do a real before and after (grinding/scraping) comparison of some key measurements but I know that’s not always possible - especially when it’s not a functioning machine.
I wonder how such a small lathe weighs so much.
is the cross ribs supporting the bed is hollow from inside ?
EE is my favorite lathe
I’ll be following this project
Love the restoration videos Keith!
I'd enjoy a video of remaking that lead hammer. It's a simple project but sometimes that still makes a good video.
So glad you decided to restore that lathe! Felt so sad when you said you may not after getting the other lathe.
Thank you for sharing. Enjoyed.
Thanks Keith.
Hilarious! Both maneuvering to be the one to do the most! Lucky no elbows or foul shots taken. Such great sportsmanship and cooperation.
My 10EE was built in 1961, it is quite different. When I got it someone had removed the electronics module (Thyratrons and drivers) and replaced it with a very lark Variac. It had terrible speed regulation. I designed a solid state speed controller for it and it has been working great for the last 23 years. Your compound looks perfect, usually the left corner has been chewed off a bit.
I didn't think there was any sheet metal anywhere on that Monarch but there it was, right on top of the headstock holding the oil fil screen.
There are also a couple of splash shields in the headstock.
Eagerly awaiting this series. Thanks for sharing.
looking forward to this one Keith. The Planer and this lathe are my kind of interest. Thanks for sharing with us. Hope you take us thru the grinding shop and the grinding process.
It will be a very fine example when you are done with it. :-)
The specs will be hard,.0005" over all on the bed grind, .0003" concave on a 5" face cut, and more, I did post the blue publication factory specs on the fake machinist forum. The best craftsmen in the world built, and still build these. Wow, what a challenge!
Great way to start the week. I love watching other people work. Coffee and a couple of clicks, voila, a great video. Thanks, it's appreciated.
Thanks Keith! I have been waiting for this day. I’ve got a 10ee that I’m restoring. It’s a process for the home gamer anyway, so we can all just follow along and know that you’re going to do it right and bring this great old machine back to better than new.
Hello Keith, boy this couldn’t have come at a better time. I just took delivery of my first lathe and yes it is a 10ee.
Gtta love "Blind Man's Bluff" when taking apart, or reassembly of something.
Tell Lance he needs his own channel.
Hi Keith, I pulled the mg set on mine and made a rectifier bridge and feed it with a 300volt variac . less than 100bucs and it works beautiful
How much does just the bed weigh? I'm sending mine off shortly to Kinetic as well.
love lathe restoration monarch
to professional Machinist saving American history thank you
Love the curves of this old lathe. Wish I could find one.
Is the 4th shim stuck up under the bed?
A friend of mine has one of these, and I've used it several times, particularly for making model fasteners, because he had a 5C collet chuck for it, along with a nearly full set of hex collets. It just made it all so much easier. It does require a mindset change, though, because the dials are direct-reading, unlike a normal machine lathe.
Now for this week's episode of: which way does the pin hammer out? :D
Best advice I got when I was stripping down my P&W Model B was: get a set of SHORT pin punches.
A lot less bounce, meaning a lot more of the effort goes straight into moving the pin.
Starret make a nice set in a red plastic cylindrical holder.
I would love to see your show and how repair for old lathe. I should have this at home.
I love the art deco design and pieces of these lathes. I know someone that has one just sitting around.
Do you know if it has a taper attachment?
Nice!! The floor does get further away the older you get... :-)
What about the Stoker Engine?
I had a little bit of time working with a great man that is grinding bed ways for over 30 years and he told me that they were actually grinding the bed ways convex, so the middle was 3-5 microns taller than the ends to compensate the weight of the carrige. This was in the early 70s and it was controlled by an NC computer.
Of all the machines these guys have a 10ee is the only one I covet. Will be a great series.
Question. Since the 10ee uses ball bearings on an eccentric shaft taking the place of gibs for the carriage, after you re-grind the bed you will be out of travel for the eccentric shafts. How do you correct this?
It is really going to be a great series of vid's seeing this 80 year old machine come back to life and make chips once again.
Great instructional video. I cut my teeth in 1956 on a 1936 16 x 48 Monarch and know what quality machines they built then and now. I hope you made lots of digital photos to help during reassembly.
I’m glad I picked my 10EE when I did. 1939 Sundstrand, however the original pump was replaced probably in the 70’s or 80’s. The original Westinghouse 3 hp motor was still in it & functional when I replaced it with a 5hp single phase. I didn’t want to be that guy who killed the 82 year old motor. You video is urging me to get back into the garage, I want to strip & repaint it.
Keith - make sure the grinder indicates on the ball bearing gib ways front and back as these have to be parallel to the bed ways. It might make sense to clean up the feet where they contact the base at the same time to get rid of the wae time shims. Have to scrape in the 2 if you do that.
Hopefully, as the lathe is reassembled, you will give us a good explanation of what the various parts do.
You might also want to watch his other lathe restoration videos.
I feel there'll be some "scraping" involved 😉😉😉😉👍👌
The Monarch bed ways were hardened at the factory so only precision grinding will be required to make it as good as new.
@@ellieprice363 Hahaha, it was tongue in cheek LOL
25:23 I kept waiting for that apron to fall! 😂
I have a 1943 10ee too, it came with a car transmission as a replacement for the motor/generator if you can believe it but I switched it over to a VFD. Will be cool to see the same machine completely restored.
Looks identical to the CVA 1A
CVA copied the 10EE.
Whats the name of the machine shop in milwaukee?
Keith, if you can show the bed grinding process, that would be awesome!
I believe Kieth filmed the grinding of the ways for the planer.