FAQ Friday is Back! Do We Need To Use NS10's Anymore? I've been asked this question so many times! It's a good one! Coming up as a young musician in the late '80s and '90s EVERY studio I went to had a pair of NS10's! What are your thoughts do own a pair of NS10's? Did you? Are you thinking of getting a pair?
I've been using NS10's for several years with good results. What would you recommend as a 2nd speaker to check low (and high) end on under $1,000? I can't afford a pair of Genelecs and won't be able to in the near future. Thanks so much..
No brother. Your mixes will fail in the low end if you're mixing with the ns10s. Never really liked them, but I recognize their effectiveness in the 80s. Have a ton of engineering friends that will swear by them.
Boss Bluetooth speaker, Airpods. iPhone is what customers listen to music with. It’s sad but that’s how it is. in my humble opinion the ns10 are obsolete. It looks professional in the studio, a bit like a large poster signed by Arnold Schwarzenegger in a weight room. even if people are still able to produce great mixes with. (ns10 not Arnold :) merci Warren et bonne année !
My limited experience with NS-10s is if you can make it sound good one them it usually will. Well sorta. Also Mackie CR3's are a bad substitute but kinda for the same reasons. Cheers.
I've had a pair of NS10M Studios (the horizontal version) that I purchased new back in 1987,and I still have them. I bought them because EVERY major studio I visited had them,and I wanted to hear the same thing the "big boys" heard in my own studio. If it sounded good on my NS10's than it sounded the same in the studios where I did my mixes.I personally prefer Adam A77H monitors when i found out That Rupert Neve used A77X monitors to test his 5088 consoles, but I've kept my NS10s.
When I started out in the 70s everyone used a variation of a 15" bass driver and a horn for the top end. JBL and Altec were common as were the duel concentric Altec 604s and Tannoy Ardens. We never used NS10s but we cross referenced on Auratones. Because we were influenced by the British (well at least the ex BBC guys who made their way to Australia) we used the Tannoys for classical music and Altec for everything else.
After all these years ,Warren you are still the best on music advice and mixing,you make it simple ,with a touch of old school, but the right move! Thankyou
He's a confused producer. He buys Genelec 8351A's, and now he's into Kali-whatever, and now asks if people are interested in the inferior NS10's crap. 100Hz-speakers. 🤮
Ive had the cla-10’s for a couple years now and it made a huge difference with my mixes. Its very clear to hear whats wrong with the mix. Ill usually start my static mix with the cla-10’s, then switch to my mains for eq/compression then switch back to cla-10’s to check and make final decision. Then keep switching back n forth like that til the mix is done. Its made my mixing so much quicker cause the cla-10’s are so brutally honest that if sounds good on there i know its going to translate. Its easy to know if something is masking, the relationship between instruments, if somethings to bright, etc. its definitely a great 2nd pair of monitors.
There are now other brands like Amphion with better resolution in the midrange while less fatiguing to the ear, yet still providing the NS-10 midrange essential information so key to mixing. And yet I still own a pair as they're still quite useful and so common in major studios it's good to be familiar with them instead of being clueless. And incredible mixes were done on them. They are historic! Cheers mates!
If you want to hear NS10sas they were specifically designed to be used then, find an old Japanese amp that has the loudness contour control. Hook the NS10s up, engage the loudness contour control and that's how they were designed to be listened to. They were created to serve a very niche market in Japan. Small room, can't push the levels but still want to feel there's a proper bass end to your music. Try it, it's a real eye opener, you actually understand why they made sense domestically
I have been pondering the Yamaha question for a very long time, this explanation satisfied all of my curiosity, thank you! I also love how you explained how monitors are used as a tool.
So much good advice. I especially appreciated the acknowledgement that using Garage Band for good work flow, for me in pre production, is a great tool and never wasted (wish I could say the same for myself)! More so perhaps because I do all my tracking analog and self engineer my demos.
If you have Apple devices, it's free and works perfectly well for tracking. It's what our uses band for recording rehearsals, then flown into Logic for a bit of editing.
@@wile_e Exactly! And so easy to use, meaning you can concentrate on the performance rather than the (self) engineering. I would not want to use if for making an actual record (no need, as you say, because it is so easy to move those tracks into Logic) but as a writing/reversal tool, for the actual tracking, it makes everything a piece of cake.
I still use GarageBand to track voiceovers with, and I’ve done a fair-sized stack of audiobooks with only that and one or two favorite 3rd-party plugins. I may move a track to LogicPro for editing in some cases (and I prefer Logic for music projects) but 90 percent of my VO work has been done entirely in GB. Simple, straightforward, gets the job done.😎
When I first started and built my studio, I got a pair. Used them, and they were overall ok. Sold them because they were not happy with the response I was used to getting when mixing low-end. We used Tannoys and the big KRKs. Over time, as technology grew, we used other brands that were way better than the yamaha ns-10's
There's probably books of technique and terminology on panning technique. Recently I had a nice panning effect I came across while recording. I wanted to use a harp glissando, then give it a 3D whirling effect. So I duplicated the track, then in one part I took away the volume from one and added volume to the other track, which was muted. I also manipulated the panning on each track at that same area. It didn't do an 'around the head' kind of effect, but it did make the harp snake through the mix which I found quite pleasant. It was similar to the way they used cameras in The Matrix, sort of. Just wanted to share. Another song of mine will soon be on radio in the home of some of the most influential bands of all time: Manchester. Terribly excited about that. TY Laura Beth.
Cool, thanks for clearing the mist on the NS-10 topic! I always thought they are overrated, but they appear to be like a status symbol of mix engineers and studio owners. 🤷♂️
I bought the CLA 10's. Honestly, takes a long time to get to know them. But after using them as "dayli drivers" for music after about 2 months, I felt ready for mixing on them. The result was AMAZING. Had to cut a little low and boost a little high in the Kali's, but after that my mix sounded EXPENSIVE.
@@chinmeysway I mean its getting closer to sounding like a mix I would pay a professional good money for. Because of budgets, I record, mix and "master" my bands music, and its always sounded "good enough", but spending time in the midrange on the "NS10's" made everything fit together alot better. The prosess of carving out space in the EQ-spectrum for each element, without squashing with multiband-compression, was a lot easier with just hearing basically only the mids. I come from "overmixing" with plugins, but these speakers left me with a greater understanding of balance and frequency-relationships, and I ended up with using A LOT less processing :)
When I'm writing, Garageband is my go to workshop. Three or four tracks of midi - drums, bass, a piano maybe, it has a great built in B3. Throw on a scratch vocal. Drag the folder to Logic and it sets it up for you. Sweet! Plus, recently I've been mixing on a pair of dead flat Shure sr116s. You can really crank them if you want but sound great at a low volume.🖖👽
FINALLY I got an explanation as to why there always or often seem to be a pair of Yamaha NS-10 in studios. I have never listened to them but read reviews and majority has been negative which has made me really confused why they have a place in the studio if they aren't good. But this video explained why. Thanks for putting me out of years of wonder! 😁
This may be an urban myth, but I always understood that a lot of the popularity of the NS-10s was the fact that they tended to make the guitars cut through more in the mix and it helped engineers to stop guitarists from constantly saying "turn me up!" I could be wrong, of course.
Back in the day - some 30 years ago - I also considered getting NS 10s but I ultimately went for a pair of JBL Control 5s which I use to this day. About soloing: I actually find it more important during the soundcheck for a live mix as opposed to mixing in the studio.
I studied film, audio engineering, and electronic music composition in the mid-1980s, and every studio I worked in had NS-10s in them. The weird thing about them is you don't use them to get a 'good' mix on. You learned how certain 'poor' frequencies sounded while mixing with them (since they seemed to be really good at accentuating the worst parts of a mix all on their own), and then by minimizing the bad parts in the studio, somehow they would sound correct in your house or in your car. Counterintuitive I guess, but it worked. In 2000, I switched to Dynaudio Bm5s. Since then, I have had to do NOTHING but mix my songs (in Ableton) until they sound correct on my system. Once I print the final mix, the songs sound correct on my headphones, in my car, on my stereo, anywhere you want to be. They are just that good.
I agreed with all of what you said. I have solo’d a track before and edited it to the point of destruction. It’s easy to hyper focus on something and remove all of what’s good about it whilst trying to make it better. These days I use automation as much as I used to. It just takes such a long time and you can get lost just like soloing a track.
Great advice. Along with NS-10s I also recall a long time ago all the major studios here in Australia had a pair of Auratones. Totally agree with you about GarageBand and yes it comes included with all Macs, iPads and iPhones. I now use Logic Pro and what's great is that everything I learned in GarageBand works the same way but Logic has a huge amount of additional capabilities. I like the way a producer friend described it, Logic is GarageBand on steroids :)
Ah yes, good ol’ Auratones! 😅 Of course, this was back before most of us were putting 1500w amps and subwoofer boxes in our Hondas, so checking a mix on a cube that sounded exactly like our trash 6x9in oval in the front console appeared to make sense. (I confess to still having a soft spot for such gear.)
I own a 'good' system speaker ( high-end Genelec, calibrated room ). But i still listen my final mix on my old NS10 I own since 30y... especialy for mix dédicated to "TV/Internet stream" ...
I always learn something from your videos, Warren - thank you! I wonder if the person asking "What is automation?" question could have benefited from an even more fundamental explanation of what it is. Something along the lines of, "You know how you can raise or lower the volume level of a particular track during the song to emphasize a particular sound, or push it back in the mix? Well, rather than you having to move that fader or control knob around with your mouse when you're listening to the mix, you can have your DAW observe and memorize whatever it was that you were doing with the fader or parameter change. Then, on subsequent playbacks or bounces, your DAW will automatically make that same parameter change for you, effectively automating whatever you were doing manually (not limited to just volume levels, as you mentioned)."
Missing crucial info about NS10: You mix with them at low volume, everything is really clear and it helps remove a less than ideal room from the equation. Transients and stereo image are very detailed. Also you complement with headphones for low end and high end. If you want volume, you need a good room and another bigger set of speakers, ns10 are not for that.
Interesting! I suppose I"m so used to all of the guys I know in LA and New York who did use NS10's blasting them! Which was inevitable with their total lack of Bass of course
These NS10s have a fast transient response in the midrage area due to this white, very lightweight and stiff paper cone. I assume that contributes a big part to their popularity, and perfectly supports your suggested use: to dial in the midrange / vocal EQ at *moderate* volumes...
@@ProducelikeaproYeah, the frequency response completely changes at low volumes. Not harsh at all and some of the best stereo-separation and snappy transients I have ever heard.
The fact that NS-10s have produced such incredible mixes proves one thing: that even on the worst speakers, if you learn them, you can make great mixes.
@@Producelikeapro After owning a Kii Three setup since 3 years and working on The Dutch & Dutch 8c, I cant imagine working on monitors that are not designed to have cardioid bass response. After more people try them its only a matter of time. Either you have suffit mounted speakers or in anything less than an ideal room there is no reason that cardioid bass should not be the primary concern. All speakers now measure well in anachoic rooms, its all gravy. its all about acoustics now, i.e. how do they sound in your room. Cardioid DSP is the future of monitoring imo.
@@Producelikeapro 'Borrowed' my wife-to-be's NS10Ms in the late 80s. They were the main monitors for many years. They're still around, just unused for about 5 years now. Not sure that I like them, sound wise. It's more that they're definitely challenging to get a good sound on sometimes, causing one to work harder at something rather than go with 'good enough'.
I didn't get on with NS-10s but cubes work for me - getting the all-important mids right for translatable mixes because all speakers have mids even scooped ones!
Still own and use them. They force you make your mix sound good. Its not enough to have “neutral” monitors. Yamahas are hardly about even room acoustics. Make it work on them mix works. Still rings true. Not the only monitors you should have though.
I would agree that if you are starting out, they aren't something to feel that you need. However, I'm not sure people think/talk enough about the transient response of NS10's... There was a bunch of waterfall plots of studio monitors floating around online that illustrates how the NS10s have excellent transient response, partially because of their lack of low end, but also because they are sealed boxes. Good transient response is so useful when mixing, it goes hand in hand with a good room. without both of these, you are 'hearing' the room and monitor instead of your mix... just my 2c
As someone who grew up with sound technology in the late 70s and early 80s, there was simply no way around the NS10/NS10M. For three reasons: most control rooms were an acoustic disaster for bigger boxes, they sounded better than Auratones and - once you got used to them - you could mix in *any* studio in the world, *everybody* had the. Even though I've been out of the business for a long time, NS10Ms are still here... 😊
I’ve done a couple of things that began on Garageband (I have the iPhone). And yes, I also exported the audio - both mixdown and individual parts - and put them in my normal setup and finished from there. As for the NS-10s, there are definitely plugins that can give an idea of “what it sounds like”. If you are either resourceful or patient, you can create an EQ curve using your favourite digital EQ and do it that way.
What you said about the NS10s is exactly what I've been saying for years to anyone thinking about getting a pair, except my approach is much less diplomatic. It's like everyone learned the name NS10, but didn't bother to research what reference monitor meant.
Turn up the room mics on drums (or mute the close mics)... then the snare moves to the side as the overheads weren't positioned correctly. heard that a few times.
Clients and older musicians love to see my NS-10's sitting next to my Neumann monitors, so of course there *that* aspect, but even so I still like to switch over to them when working on midrange elements. So they serve a purpose or two..
The irony is that if Bob Clearmountain had chosen a different set of speakers back in the 80s, eveyone would be going on and on about those instead. Having listened to NS-10s, they are not a joy, and are quite fatiging. Who wants that when mixing a song?
I think that’s the point. It leads to trying to make the mix less fatiguing. I get it for opposite reasons. Years ago, I got a pair of Tannoy DMT-12 midfields from a studio that closed, and I mixed on them for a while. The Tannoys are very sweet and beautiful, and… my mixes were harsh. Because they made EVERYTHING sound good. Now, they’re on the hi-fi and wonderful for that, and I mix on a pair of pretty mean Focals.
@@davestagner - Trying to guess in what way the average person's listening equipment deviates from well balanced is a crap shoot. I kinda think if you make a solid well balanced mix on a set of solid well balanced monitors, it will translate better to more listeners overall.
I would view the solo question with automation, riding the faders would be a easy example, and equing or panning can be done on the console while mixing down. Im sure if you got the capture correct to start with, listening to the whole track can tell you whether or not it suits what you are aiming for.
I'm grateful to received my first ever paycheck as a lofi chill beats producer near the end of 2023 with the help of garageband. For beginner producers the sound library and the plugins itself is more than enough, almost too intimidating for me personally when i first started. you just need to start, even with the most simplest ideas floating in your head. I myself have yet to fully maximize its potential. But over time your ears and creative muscle will be trained and start to find some additional sounds and plugins online that'll suit your production style
now a days I just use an NS-10m and Auratone IR with my own speakers when checking my mix and they pretty much work fine, the only problem is just like what you said you wont gonna be able to tell the distortion side of your mix if you dont have the real speaker, but since im used to both speaker EQ characteristic i pretty much kinda rely on it lol... but to everyone who are learning on mixing, id say just get a creative PC speakers like Pebble since they pretty much a good reference of todays modern mid speakers that everyone uses.
We had a set of NS-10’s in the early 90’s. I wasn’t aware of the jacked up sound they provided and was always scooping my mixes. When I played them on other setups and systems they sounded awful. When I put my own studio together 10 years later I got a newer set of monitors and my mixes started sounding great in comparison, even for an amateur. I never understood the mentality of having to learn to compensate for a set of awful sounding speakers. Piss on Bob Clearmountain.
As with all speakers, you must maintain your frame of reference. Making a relative mix decision is easy. Making an absolute decision is very difficult. Easy to hear more or less high end. But how much high end is enough is difficult. Only possible if you have a frame of reference that you keep you ears calibrated to.
I fuzzily think I recall you talking about mixing with headphones becoming more acceptable and practical these days, Warren, and am wondering if you have any thoughts on those pricey Neumann NDH 20 ($550) and NDH 30 ($650) headphones?
When you mentioned listening in solo you reminded me of a radio morning show I used to listen to years back, they would take various 80s hard rock songs and solo the vocal track to pick on how terrible the vocals sounded, and yes if you just listened to Joe elliot or David Lee Roths vocals in solo without the context of the song it sounded aweful, but put it back in the mix and it sounds amazing. Solo other thatn for trouble shooting misses the point of the song.
Sniffle. I picked up a pair of NS10m Studios in Nashville, back in 2017. But as you said, you get used to mixing on them, no problems. I also have a pair of Ampex cubes that are basically Auratones, using them for smaller stereo/mono translation, and a pair of Alesis Monitor Two for midrange monitoring…they’re not great, but good to check for balance. Having a sub helps, except I forget to turn it down since I discovered this fact listening elsewhere.
Should I go for Audio Technica AT2020 or Lewitt LCT 240 Pro for my home studio? I have a budget of INR 10K ($120 usd). I am a beginner independent artist.
6:57 The frequency response does not matter much. What matters more is the pure impulse response. The NS10 is very good at this. Moreover, the bass is not a bass reflex port, but a closed box with very fast bass. So just mentioning the frequency response to me shows a bit of incompetence.
I used to reference on an old set of TDLs. Basically same as the Tannoy's, same drivers, but different ballast in cavity to absorb the internal reflections.
The NS-10 is still relevant; they have no port- so they are vere responsive to transients. It means you really hear how a compressor changes transients. Also makes them good for editing vocals Cause you can really hear consonants and s’ess also good for adjusting timing on drums and acoustic guitars.
Really good points! I have Adam S3 with Sub10 and Munro Sonic 150 with KRK sub. I used to have NS10´s also, but never get the point to use them. I think If the speaker system can produce all frequencys as evenly as possible, you can always trust on them and they sound good even in colored systems. So I can never recommend mixing with a system with poor frequency response. Sonarworks is also good friend :)
Automation back in my day was all of the band members manning a fader, mute button, or knob and making the changes during realtime mix down. Inevitably, someone would miss their adjustment and we would have to rewind, reset the board, and try it again.
I have NS10 Studio and mine sound quite smooth even with the harsh mid. Maybe I just like the sound, but when I switch over to my other Yamaha monitors HS5 and HS8 it fits like a glove also. You have to just "get" the more modern Yamaha's and spend the time to learn them correctly.
Compressors and such should be used as insert on tracks. Reverbs and such should be used on aux'es. That way, you will have a dry channel, and a wet channel bus. If you have a slow PC, this will save CPU time too.
I finally have a great question! What are some ways that we can work on training our ears more after we have already been mixing for awhile? In context, I would like some info on what strategies we could employ that grow our critical listening skills?
To my mind, people use NS-10s because they let you focus on what's really important: the midrange. At least that's been my experience using them. The more I focus on getting the midrange right, and the less I worry about lows and highs, the better my mixes have sounded. And the NS-10s, due to their frequency curve, let you do that. But you can achieve the same thing with Auratone Mixcubes or even Apple AirPods.
I hated NS-10s the first time I used them (in a recording class back in the mid-90s) and I never found any reason to change my mind. I had my first go-round with Tannoys during that same course (and in similarly treated rooms), and found them much more even in response, smoother on top, and far less fatiguing to listen to. These days I use Tannoy Reveals and am quite happy with them. I’ve heard newer Yamaha models with switchable response curves that sound more agreeable, but I’m content to stick to what works for me.
I don't use ns10's currently. I have though. I do use an auratone in mono a lot or the auratone bandpass trick. I think there was more going on back then. As you say, music delivery was different back in the day. Radio and vinyl were king of music sales and promotion, both polished after the recording studio. Sometimes all the way to the local radio station. Mixing with a boost at 1- 1.5k on ns 10's can result in a cut at at those frequencies when playing back elsewhere. And for many, there's often a build-up around 1-1.5k because so much stuff is there and it can cloud up the mix. Not saying that was the main reason they were used. Just a possible part of it. Tracks mixed on them often stand up well to this day. Hope that made sense. Another good one. Cheers. 👍
the tracks hold up bc the music was / is good. the 1k build up thing u mention make more sense as possible reason these work; they make you turn the mids down in build up areas. maybe. but yeah nobody ever explains it well. seems like just a symbolic artifact mostly at this point to involve them.
@@chinmeysway Yeah. You point out the biggest part of all which I just assumed was a given. Good song, good performance,..good production. There are exceptions,...but not many. Cheers.
Warren, if it got slightly more English, it would be bullocks cross. We love you here in Texas and thanks for all of the crazy, but highly effective ideas!
Very useful talk. I remember hearing of software from a company SonarWorks that has an emulation of the NS-10. Some may wish to investigate to test out the 'sound' with their mixes ? Worth a try before you buy ?
I have big speakers from Phase Linear (hand build) paired with a Class D amplifier, this combination is flat, you can't get them flatter (but these are great for finding problems very quick). The NS10s are the ones with that mid-high characteristic, and in my experience, the NS10 are a reference for the top end of a song. For just listening, they sound bad (that's about taste, of course), my B&Ws are more made for listening music, they have warmth and color in them. And paired with a Class A tube stereo amp. And for near field monitors I use those from Adam Audio, with on each site a 12" subwoofer from the same series, but filtered with a digital sound management system. This is a hardware unit (the t.racks DSP 4x4), but all the remote controls are done with a computer. So I can use the setup with subs, or without, which makes it very flexible. All tuned with Sonarworks software. It's all about to get reference sounds, the NS10s, Auratones, those big cabinets, for the whole picture, even cheap computer speakers when mastering.
What's the non-Mac equivalent of Garageband? I'm an old old boy of 70 who is not very tech-savvy. I just want something really simple to record basic demos and stuff at home. Thanks.
FAQ Friday is Back!
Do We Need To Use NS10's Anymore?
I've been asked this question so many times! It's a good one! Coming up as a young musician in the late '80s and '90s EVERY studio I went to had a pair of NS10's!
What are your thoughts do own a pair of NS10's? Did you? Are you thinking of getting a pair?
I've been using NS10's for several years with good results. What would you recommend as a 2nd speaker to check low (and high) end on under $1,000? I can't afford a pair of Genelecs and won't be able to in the near future. Thanks so much..
No brother. Your mixes will fail in the low end if you're mixing with the ns10s. Never really liked them, but I recognize their effectiveness in the 80s.
Have a ton of engineering friends that will swear by them.
Boss Bluetooth speaker, Airpods. iPhone is what customers listen to music with. It’s sad but that’s how it is. in my humble opinion the ns10 are obsolete. It looks professional in the studio, a bit like a large poster signed by Arnold Schwarzenegger in a weight room. even if people are still able to produce great mixes with. (ns10 not Arnold :) merci Warren et bonne année !
My limited experience with NS-10s is if you can make it sound good one them it usually will. Well sorta. Also Mackie CR3's are a bad substitute but kinda for the same reasons. Cheers.
I've had a pair of NS10M Studios (the horizontal version) that I purchased new back in 1987,and I still have them. I bought them because EVERY major studio I visited had them,and I wanted to hear the same thing the "big boys" heard in my own studio. If it sounded good on my NS10's than it sounded the same in the studios where I did my mixes.I personally prefer Adam A77H monitors when i found out That Rupert Neve used A77X monitors to test his 5088 consoles, but I've kept my NS10s.
When I started out in the 70s everyone used a variation of a 15" bass driver and a horn for the top end. JBL and Altec were common as were the duel concentric Altec 604s and Tannoy Ardens. We never used NS10s but we cross referenced on Auratones. Because we were influenced by the British (well at least the ex BBC guys who made their way to Australia) we used the Tannoys for classical music and Altec for everything else.
After all these years ,Warren you are still the best on music advice and mixing,you make it simple ,with a touch of old school, but the right move! Thankyou
Thanks ever so much Mick! I really appreciate it
He's a confused producer. He buys Genelec 8351A's, and now he's into Kali-whatever, and now asks if people are interested in the inferior NS10's crap. 100Hz-speakers. 🤮
I agree !!
Ive had the cla-10’s for a couple years now and it made a huge difference with my mixes. Its very clear to hear whats wrong with the mix. Ill usually start my static mix with the cla-10’s, then switch to my mains for eq/compression then switch back to cla-10’s to check and make final decision. Then keep switching back n forth like that til the mix is done. Its made my mixing so much quicker cause the cla-10’s are so brutally honest that if sounds good on there i know its going to translate. Its easy to know if something is masking, the relationship between instruments, if somethings to bright, etc. its definitely a great 2nd pair of monitors.
There are now other brands like Amphion with better resolution in the midrange while less fatiguing to the ear, yet still providing the NS-10 midrange essential information so key to mixing. And yet I still own a pair as they're still quite useful and so common in major studios it's good to be familiar with them instead of being clueless. And incredible mixes were done on them. They are historic! Cheers mates!
Thanks ever so much for sharing!
If you want to hear NS10sas they were specifically designed to be used then, find an old Japanese amp that has the loudness contour control. Hook the NS10s up, engage the loudness contour control and that's how they were designed to be listened to. They were created to serve a very niche market in Japan. Small room, can't push the levels but still want to feel there's a proper bass end to your music. Try it, it's a real eye opener, you actually understand why they made sense domestically
Hey, Yamaha NS10's were an early '80s change. Before them everyone used AR 18b's. They're flatter than Yamaha. My favorite is Tannoy. (co-axial)
In the UK everyone was still on AR-18's! I have a pair and love them!
I have been pondering the Yamaha question for a very long time, this explanation satisfied all of my curiosity, thank you! I also love how you explained how monitors are used as a tool.
Your take on NS10’s was spot on!
Thanks ever so much!
I’m so glad that tour channel has reached an astonishing amount of subscribers! I started watching your vids when you had only 12k
i have them and use them good video
Marvellous! Thanks ever so much for sharing
@@Producelikeapro no np keep up the good work its all about passion and the love of music which u have peace
So much good advice. I especially appreciated the acknowledgement that using Garage Band for good work flow, for me in pre production, is a great tool and never wasted (wish I could say the same for myself)! More so perhaps because I do all my tracking analog and self engineer my demos.
Happy to help! Thanks ever so much for sharing!
If you have Apple devices, it's free and works perfectly well for tracking. It's what our uses band for recording rehearsals, then flown into Logic for a bit of editing.
@@wile_e Exactly! And so easy to use, meaning you can concentrate on the performance rather than the (self) engineering. I would not want to use if for making an actual record (no need, as you say, because it is so easy to move those tracks into Logic) but as a writing/reversal tool, for the actual tracking, it makes everything a piece of cake.
I still use GarageBand to track voiceovers with, and I’ve done a fair-sized stack of audiobooks with only that and one or two favorite 3rd-party plugins. I may move a track to LogicPro for editing in some cases (and I prefer Logic for music projects) but 90 percent of my VO work has been done entirely in GB. Simple, straightforward, gets the job done.😎
I use NS-10T....NS-10M with a x-over network , I added a by-pass switch to reference both worlds...works "marvelously well"!!!!!
Thanks ever so much for sharing
I love that we are able to hear Warren's insights about many subjects, thanks Warren.
Thanks ever so much!
When I first started and built my studio, I got a pair. Used them, and they were overall ok. Sold them because they were not happy with the response I was used to getting when mixing low-end. We used Tannoys and the big KRKs. Over time, as technology grew, we used other brands that were way better than the yamaha ns-10's
There's probably books of technique and terminology on panning technique. Recently I had a nice panning effect I came across while recording. I wanted to use a harp glissando, then give it a 3D whirling effect. So I duplicated the track, then in one part I took away the volume from one and added volume to the other track, which was muted. I also manipulated the panning on each track at that same area. It didn't do an 'around the head' kind of effect, but it did make the harp snake through the mix which I found quite pleasant. It was similar to the way they used cameras in The Matrix, sort of. Just wanted to share. Another song of mine will soon be on radio in the home of some of the most influential bands of all time: Manchester. Terribly excited about that. TY Laura Beth.
Cool, thanks for clearing the mist on the NS-10 topic! I always thought they are overrated, but they appear to be like a status symbol of mix engineers and studio owners. 🤷♂️
That red focusrite what a beautiful peace of kit
I bought the CLA 10's. Honestly, takes a long time to get to know them. But after using them as "dayli drivers" for music after about 2 months, I felt ready for mixing on them. The result was AMAZING. Had to cut a little low and boost a little high in the Kali's, but after that my mix sounded EXPENSIVE.
Ouuuu sounds expensive
u mean like over produced pop sounding or, what does expensive mean
@@chinmeysway I mean its getting closer to sounding like a mix I would pay a professional good money for. Because of budgets, I record, mix and "master" my bands music, and its always sounded "good enough", but spending time in the midrange on the "NS10's" made everything fit together alot better. The prosess of carving out space in the EQ-spectrum for each element, without squashing with multiband-compression, was a lot easier with just hearing basically only the mids. I come from "overmixing" with plugins, but these speakers left me with a greater understanding of balance and frequency-relationships, and I ended up with using A LOT less processing :)
When I'm writing, Garageband is my go to workshop. Three or four tracks of midi - drums, bass, a piano maybe, it has a great built in B3. Throw on a scratch vocal. Drag the folder to Logic and it sets it up for you. Sweet! Plus, recently I've been mixing on a pair of dead flat Shure sr116s. You can really crank them if you want but sound great at a low volume.🖖👽
FINALLY I got an explanation as to why there always or often seem to be a pair of Yamaha NS-10 in studios. I have never listened to them but read reviews and majority has been negative which has made me really confused why they have a place in the studio if they aren't good. But this video explained why. Thanks for putting me out of years of wonder! 😁
Thank you!
Thanks ever so much!
This may be an urban myth, but I always understood that a lot of the popularity of the NS-10s was the fact that they tended to make the guitars cut through more in the mix and it helped engineers to stop guitarists from constantly saying "turn me up!" I could be wrong, of course.
Haha nice! I've never heard that one before!
Like a DFA fader/switch when doing live SE work except it actually sounds different (for the time being).
This actually makes sense.
Best answer ever about the NS10s
Thanks ever so much
use SOLO as a tool is such a great advice.
Back in the day - some 30 years ago - I also considered getting NS 10s but I ultimately went for a pair of JBL Control 5s which I use to this day. About soloing: I actually find it more important during the soundcheck for a live mix as opposed to mixing in the studio.
Thanks ever so much for sharing!
This is the first explanation of NS10s I've ever heard that makes sense.
I studied film, audio engineering, and electronic music composition in the mid-1980s, and every studio I worked in had NS-10s in them. The weird thing about them is you don't use them to get a 'good' mix on. You learned how certain 'poor' frequencies sounded while mixing with them (since they seemed to be really good at accentuating the worst parts of a mix all on their own), and then by minimizing the bad parts in the studio, somehow they would sound correct in your house or in your car. Counterintuitive I guess, but it worked.
In 2000, I switched to Dynaudio Bm5s. Since then, I have had to do NOTHING but mix my songs (in Ableton) until they sound correct on my system. Once I print the final mix, the songs sound correct on my headphones, in my car, on my stereo, anywhere you want to be. They are just that good.
Nice to see you put the explanation of "solo" in mono mode
Thanks ever so much
I agreed with all of what you said. I have solo’d a track before and edited it to the point of destruction. It’s easy to hyper focus on something and remove all of what’s good about it whilst trying to make it better. These days I use automation as much as I used to. It just takes such a long time and you can get lost just like soloing a track.
Thanks ever so much! Glad to be able to help!
Great advice. Along with NS-10s I also recall a long time ago all the major studios here in Australia had a pair of Auratones. Totally agree with you about GarageBand and yes it comes included with all Macs, iPads and iPhones. I now use Logic Pro and what's great is that everything I learned in GarageBand works the same way but Logic has a huge amount of additional capabilities. I like the way a producer friend described it, Logic is GarageBand on steroids :)
Ah yes, good ol’ Auratones! 😅
Of course, this was back before most of us were putting 1500w amps and subwoofer boxes in our Hondas, so checking a mix on a cube that sounded exactly like our trash 6x9in oval in the front console appeared to make sense. (I confess to still having a soft spot for such gear.)
ahh yes, the Auratones, or awful tome as we used to call them. Emulated a tv speaker very well though.
Hi Warren....I still use Tannoys to mix...Im just so used to them after 34 years! Mind you Im mixing more on headphones now....
I own a 'good' system speaker ( high-end Genelec, calibrated room ). But i still listen my final mix on my old NS10 I own since 30y... especialy for mix dédicated to "TV/Internet stream" ...
I always learn something from your videos, Warren - thank you! I wonder if the person asking "What is automation?" question could have benefited from an even more fundamental explanation of what it is. Something along the lines of, "You know how you can raise or lower the volume level of a particular track during the song to emphasize a particular sound, or push it back in the mix? Well, rather than you having to move that fader or control knob around with your mouse when you're listening to the mix, you can have your DAW observe and memorize whatever it was that you were doing with the fader or parameter change. Then, on subsequent playbacks or bounces, your DAW will automatically make that same parameter change for you, effectively automating whatever you were doing manually (not limited to just volume levels, as you mentioned)."
Missing crucial info about NS10: You mix with them at low volume, everything is really clear and it helps remove a less than ideal room from the equation. Transients and stereo image are very detailed. Also you complement with headphones for low end and high end. If you want volume, you need a good room and another bigger set of speakers, ns10 are not for that.
Interesting! I suppose I"m so used to all of the guys I know in LA and New York who did use NS10's blasting them! Which was inevitable with their total lack of Bass of course
These NS10s have a fast transient response in the midrage area due to this white, very lightweight and stiff paper cone. I assume that contributes a big part to their popularity, and perfectly supports your suggested use: to dial in the midrange / vocal EQ at *moderate* volumes...
Yes, mix at low volume and AB with a "professional" recording at the same level, key for NS10 (or the SN10's that I've got which are decent copies)🏆😁
Correct, that's the secret. For anyone doubting, listen to Rumours on low volume on ns-10's. Incredible detail.
@@ProducelikeaproYeah, the frequency response completely changes at low volumes. Not harsh at all and some of the best stereo-separation and snappy transients I have ever heard.
The fact that NS-10s have produced such incredible mixes proves one thing: that even on the worst speakers, if you learn them, you can make great mixes.
Agreed! We all want to be Bob!
Do you think that another speaker could also be the standard if that had been adopted? What is unique about the NS10 for you? Many thanks
@@Producelikeapro After owning a Kii Three setup since 3 years and working on The Dutch & Dutch 8c, I cant imagine working on monitors that are not designed to have cardioid bass response. After more people try them its only a matter of time. Either you have suffit mounted speakers or in anything less than an ideal room there is no reason that cardioid bass should not be the primary concern. All speakers now measure well in anachoic rooms, its all gravy. its all about acoustics now, i.e. how do they sound in your room. Cardioid DSP is the future of monitoring imo.
@@Producelikeapro 'Borrowed' my wife-to-be's NS10Ms in the late 80s. They were the main monitors for many years. They're still around, just unused for about 5 years now. Not sure that I like them, sound wise. It's more that they're definitely challenging to get a good sound on sometimes, causing one to work harder at something rather than go with 'good enough'.
Thanks ever so much for sharing@@wile_e
I didn't get on with NS-10s but cubes work for me - getting the all-important mids right for translatable mixes because all speakers have mids even scooped ones!
Still own and use them. They force you make your mix sound good. Its not enough to have “neutral” monitors. Yamahas are hardly about even room acoustics. Make it work on them mix works. Still rings true. Not the only monitors you should have though.
Thanks ever so much for sharing!
I would agree that if you are starting out, they aren't something to feel that you need. However, I'm not sure people think/talk enough about the transient response of NS10's... There was a bunch of waterfall plots of studio monitors floating around online that illustrates how the NS10s have excellent transient response, partially because of their lack of low end, but also because they are sealed boxes. Good transient response is so useful when mixing, it goes hand in hand with a good room. without both of these, you are 'hearing' the room and monitor instead of your mix... just my 2c
I don’t solo. I only solo kick and bass together to find fighting frequencies (if they exist). That’s it. Always trying to find a good balance first
Thanks ever so much for sharing
As someone who grew up with sound technology in the late 70s and early 80s, there was simply no way around the NS10/NS10M. For three reasons: most control rooms were an acoustic disaster for bigger boxes, they sounded better than Auratones and - once you got used to them - you could mix in *any* studio in the world, *everybody* had the.
Even though I've been out of the business for a long time, NS10Ms are still here... 😊
I’ve done a couple of things that began on Garageband (I have the iPhone). And yes, I also exported the audio - both mixdown and individual parts - and put them in my normal setup and finished from there.
As for the NS-10s, there are definitely plugins that can give an idea of “what it sounds like”. If you are either resourceful or patient, you can create an EQ curve using your favourite digital EQ and do it that way.
BS. With simulation you will never get the fast bass you only hear when listening to NS10. Other speakers have slower and muddled bass.
What you said about the NS10s is exactly what I've been saying for years to anyone thinking about getting a pair, except my approach is much less diplomatic. It's like everyone learned the name NS10, but didn't bother to research what reference monitor meant.
Turn up the room mics on drums (or mute the close mics)... then the snare moves to the side as the overheads weren't positioned correctly.
heard that a few times.
Thanks ever so much for sharing
Clients and older musicians love to see my NS-10's sitting next to my Neumann monitors, so of course there *that* aspect, but even so I still like to switch over to them when working on midrange elements. So they serve a purpose or two..
You hit the nail on the head
technology has evolved so much
we should just go with it
NS10 s days are over IMO
The irony is that if Bob Clearmountain had chosen a different set of speakers back in the 80s, eveyone would be going on and on about those instead. Having listened to NS-10s, they are not a joy, and are quite fatiging. Who wants that when mixing a song?
I think that’s the point. It leads to trying to make the mix less fatiguing. I get it for opposite reasons. Years ago, I got a pair of Tannoy DMT-12 midfields from a studio that closed, and I mixed on them for a while. The Tannoys are very sweet and beautiful, and… my mixes were harsh. Because they made EVERYTHING sound good. Now, they’re on the hi-fi and wonderful for that, and I mix on a pair of pretty mean Focals.
@@davestagner - Trying to guess in what way the average person's listening equipment deviates from well balanced is a crap shoot. I kinda think if you make a solid well balanced mix on a set of solid well balanced monitors, it will translate better to more listeners overall.
I would view the solo question with automation, riding the faders would be a easy example, and equing or panning can be done on the console while mixing down. Im sure if you got the capture correct to start with, listening to the whole track can tell you whether or not it suits what you are aiming for.
I'm grateful to received my first ever paycheck as a lofi chill beats producer near the end of 2023 with the help of garageband. For beginner producers the sound library and the plugins itself is more than enough, almost too intimidating for me personally when i first started. you just need to start, even with the most simplest ideas floating in your head. I myself have yet to fully maximize its potential. But over time your ears and creative muscle will be trained and start to find some additional sounds and plugins online that'll suit your production style
You are a good and kind hearted man
now a days I just use an NS-10m and Auratone IR with my own speakers when checking my mix and they pretty much work fine, the only problem is just like what you said you wont gonna be able to tell the distortion side of your mix if you dont have the real speaker, but since im used to both speaker EQ characteristic i pretty much kinda rely on it lol... but to everyone who are learning on mixing, id say just get a creative PC speakers like Pebble since they pretty much a good reference of todays modern mid speakers that everyone uses.
I’m getting the ns6s to pair with my set of
Bx5s and my sub
You have so much knowledge is is absolutely crazy.
Glad you think so! Thanks ever so much!
We had a set of NS-10’s in the early 90’s. I wasn’t aware of the jacked up sound they provided and was always scooping my mixes. When I played them on other setups and systems they sounded awful. When I put my own studio together 10 years later I got a newer set of monitors and my mixes started sounding great in comparison, even for an amateur. I never understood the mentality of having to learn to compensate for a set of awful sounding speakers. Piss on Bob Clearmountain.
Headline is answered at 6:18
As with all speakers, you must maintain your frame of reference. Making a relative mix decision is easy. Making an absolute decision is very difficult. Easy to hear more or less high end. But how much high end is enough is difficult. Only possible if you have a frame of reference that you keep you ears calibrated to.
i got the cla 10s mixes were amazing after a few months of learning
I fuzzily think I recall you talking about mixing with headphones becoming more acceptable and practical these days, Warren, and am wondering if you have any thoughts on those pricey Neumann NDH 20 ($550) and NDH 30 ($650) headphones?
Yes! So many people mix on headphones these days! I do have the Neumann’s and love them! I also use Audeze’s and love them!
Sometimes I wish I could double-like something. This is one of them. Thanks Warren.
Thanks ever so much!
When you mentioned listening in solo you reminded me of a radio morning show I used to listen to years back, they would take various 80s hard rock songs and solo the vocal track to pick on how terrible the vocals sounded, and yes if you just listened to Joe elliot or David Lee Roths vocals in solo without the context of the song it sounded aweful, but put it back in the mix and it sounds amazing. Solo other thatn for trouble shooting misses the point of the song.
This was a lot of fun! Thanks,
Gianni❤
Glad you enjoyed it!
Sniffle. I picked up a pair of NS10m Studios in Nashville, back in 2017. But as you said, you get used to mixing on them, no problems. I also have a pair of Ampex cubes that are basically Auratones, using them for smaller stereo/mono translation, and a pair of Alesis Monitor Two for midrange monitoring…they’re not great, but good to check for balance. Having a sub helps, except I forget to turn it down since I discovered this fact listening elsewhere.
Should I go for Audio Technica AT2020 or Lewitt LCT 240 Pro for my home studio? I have a budget of INR 10K ($120 usd). I am a beginner independent artist.
I love both those Mics!! Are they both the same price where you are based? I use the Lewitt a lot
Thank you very much, at last someone is expressing what I think about the NS-10! 👏👏👏🙏
Glad it was helpful! Haha
another super FAQF thanks warren, and I love my KALI'S 6.5" series 1, I got them because of you warren!🎸
Thanks ever so much! Glad you like them!
6:57 The frequency response does not matter much. What matters more is the pure impulse response. The NS10 is very good at this. Moreover, the bass is not a bass reflex port, but a closed box with very fast bass. So just mentioning the frequency response to me shows a bit of incompetence.
I used to reference on an old set of TDLs. Basically same as the Tannoy's, same drivers, but different ballast in cavity to absorb the internal reflections.
Thanks ever so much for sharing! Happy New Year!
Love the new glasses!
Thanks ever so much
The NS-10 is still relevant; they have no port- so they are vere responsive to transients. It means you really hear how a compressor changes transients. Also makes them good for editing vocals Cause you can really hear consonants and s’ess also good for adjusting timing on drums and acoustic guitars.
Really good points! I have Adam S3 with Sub10 and Munro Sonic 150 with KRK sub. I used to have NS10´s also, but never get the point to use them. I think If the speaker system can produce all frequencys as evenly as possible, you can always trust on them and they sound good even in colored systems. So I can never recommend mixing with a system with poor frequency response. Sonarworks is also good friend :)
Automation back in my day was all of the band members manning a fader, mute button, or knob and making the changes during realtime mix down. Inevitably, someone would miss their adjustment and we would have to rewind, reset the board, and try it again.
I have NS10 Studio and mine sound quite smooth even with the harsh mid. Maybe I just like the sound, but when I switch over to my other Yamaha monitors HS5 and HS8 it fits like a glove also. You have to just "get" the more modern Yamaha's and spend the time to learn them correctly.
Very enjoyable/educational, especially the NS-10 part. Thanks!
Thanks ever so much Tim!
Fantastic advice, straight to the point and on point. Thanks very much, great Faq Friday
Thanks ever so much Joey!
NS10 with subwoofers!!😆😆
So combining two of your answers.
Hah indeed! I gave that example in the answer
Could you talk about the difference between putting plug ins directly on tracks vs. using sends and returns or parallel effected tracks?
Compressors and such should be used as insert on tracks. Reverbs and such should be used on aux'es. That way, you will have a dry channel, and a wet channel bus. If you have a slow PC, this will save CPU time too.
I finally have a great question! What are some ways that we can work on training our ears more after we have already been mixing for awhile? In context, I would like some info on what strategies we could employ that grow our critical listening skills?
To my mind, people use NS-10s because they let you focus on what's really important: the midrange. At least that's been my experience using them. The more I focus on getting the midrange right, and the less I worry about lows and highs, the better my mixes have sounded. And the NS-10s, due to their frequency curve, let you do that. But you can achieve the same thing with Auratone Mixcubes or even Apple AirPods.
I’m thinking about HPF my genelecs at 65ish and LPF at 12khz lol
@@snapascrewbetter 200 - 4000 for emulating NS 10s ?...
There's nothing happening hyped below around 1.2k@@olivierfloury5573so it would be a 1.3k-4k boost, with a huge boost at 1.5-1.7k
Nice! I Love the glasses ☺. You look like a very cool auntie who is very pleased every time she sees you and wishes you nothing but the best in life.
Hahah thanks!
you forgot to say " Ciao" at the end :))) , always the top !!
Aha! Oops!
Thank you for all the info. I was wondering why you got rid of the Focal Shape 65s that you had originally bought for your new studio?
I hated NS-10s the first time I used them (in a recording class back in the mid-90s) and I never found any reason to change my mind. I had my first go-round with Tannoys during that same course (and in similarly treated rooms), and found them much more even in response, smoother on top, and far less fatiguing to listen to. These days I use Tannoy Reveals and am quite happy with them. I’ve heard newer Yamaha models with switchable response curves that sound more agreeable, but I’m content to stick to what works for me.
I don't use ns10's currently. I have though. I do use an auratone in mono a lot or the auratone bandpass trick. I think there was more going on back then. As you say, music delivery was different back in the day. Radio and vinyl were king of music sales and promotion, both polished after the recording studio. Sometimes all the way to the local radio station. Mixing with a boost at 1- 1.5k on ns 10's can result in a cut at at those frequencies when playing back elsewhere. And for many, there's often a build-up around 1-1.5k because so much stuff is there and it can cloud up the mix. Not saying that was the main reason they were used. Just a possible part of it. Tracks mixed on them often stand up well to this day. Hope that made sense. Another good one. Cheers. 👍
the tracks hold up bc the music was / is good. the 1k build up thing u mention make more sense as possible reason these work; they make you turn the mids down in build up areas. maybe. but yeah nobody ever explains it well. seems like just a symbolic artifact mostly at this point to involve them.
@@chinmeysway Yeah. You point out the biggest part of all which I just assumed was a given. Good song, good performance,..good production. There are exceptions,...but not many. Cheers.
Warren, if it got slightly more English, it would be bullocks cross. We love you here in Texas and thanks for all of the crazy, but highly effective ideas!
Looking good, Warren. Happy 2024!
Thanks! Happy New Year to you too!
Dig the specs!
Very useful talk. I remember hearing of software from a company SonarWorks that has an emulation of the NS-10. Some may wish to investigate to test out the 'sound' with their mixes ? Worth a try before you buy ?
Happy 2024! I guess it comes down to getting to know the sound of your monitors in your mixing room when they’re playing a perfect mix.
God I hated my NS10m's. Used them for years as I didn't know better. So glad to have moved on from that era at least monitor wise.
Great mixing tips! Thank you!
Thanks ever so much!
What's your view on a subwoofer vs a subpac?
Personally, Subwoofer!
Good Robert Smith Look dear Warren! agree, to start with a pair on NS-10 today is illogical and a fight against your self.
haha Thanks ever so much! Happy New Year!
@@Producelikeapro Likewise, all the best!!
Excellent advice and video! Thank you, Warren!
Thanks ever so much
I have big speakers from Phase Linear (hand build) paired with a Class D amplifier, this combination is flat, you can't get them flatter (but these are great for finding problems very quick). The NS10s are the ones with that mid-high characteristic, and in my experience, the NS10 are a reference for the top end of a song. For just listening, they sound bad (that's about taste, of course), my B&Ws are more made for listening music, they have warmth and color in them. And paired with a Class A tube stereo amp. And for near field monitors I use those from Adam Audio, with on each site a 12" subwoofer from the same series, but filtered with a digital sound management system. This is a hardware unit (the t.racks DSP 4x4), but all the remote controls are done with a computer. So I can use the setup with subs, or without, which makes it very flexible. All tuned with Sonarworks software. It's all about to get reference sounds, the NS10s, Auratones, those big cabinets, for the whole picture, even cheap computer speakers when mastering.
Hi Warren, Any suggestions for where I can get my Revox A77 serviced in the UK?
I wish! Maybe call one of the big rental houses and ask who maintains their machines? I assume John Henry's?
Thank you!
Can i ask what do you think about buying a pair of the new auratone active c5? This money worth the money as reference?
Happy new year man!
Thanks ever so much! Happy New Year!
What's the non-Mac equivalent of Garageband? I'm an old old boy of 70 who is not very tech-savvy. I just want something really simple to record basic demos and stuff at home. Thanks.
People love Cakewalk! Check that out
If you end up getting it Email me at warren@producelikeapro.com I’ll send you a link to a course on it for free
Always happy to help people get started at recording music!
@@Producelikeapro Thanks. I will.
marvellous!@@laurieharper1526
NS-10 had their place. I think Auratones are more relevant as a grot box, no crossover in the mids
This video was completely incredibly amazing..
Thank you so much!
/Born in the 80`s
Wow!! Thanks ever so much!!
Glad to be able to help