But at the end of "Scylla" the Danger Motif is used to represent Odysseus being the danger, so I don't think the Danger Motif is used only for dangers threatening them. Maybe Jay simply didn't find a fitting way to incorporate the motif in that song 🤷
@@robertolanzone but also Odysseus there is a danger to the crew, which is why it might be present. In Different Beast, neither Odysseus nor the rest of the crew are in danger
@@incineakechi5197 Hm, I guess that could be it. To be perfectly honest I find weird how it's included in moments in which it's very arguable how much of a danger is actually there, if we wanna say that they weren't in danger with the sirens only because they had a plan. Idk, probably just me... at the end of the day, I don't care that much, it's still great music I love to enjoy 😋
@@robertolanzone you may never know, maybe they DID implemented it, but in reverse! (i am just halfly joking, i do not have any evidence to show, but it would be interesting)
If you notice in Scylla, the way they sing "Deep down" sounds like the first two notes of the danger motif, almost like they know there's danger approaching but Odysseus is trying to hide how dangerous exactly what they're about to face is
6:41 we did get confirmation a bit ago that the spirits say in order “Siren song, Scylla throat, Mutiny, Lightning bolt, Kill all the suitors for love” so largely referencing the thunder saga
@KHAEISTIREDxx14 oml i didn't even make that connection, if that was an intentional helios-circe father-daughter reference by jorge ill freak out. thank you for pointing that out!
oH MY GOD unrelated to what you’re saying, but i never realized that the melody he’s singing is the same as when Zeus was first telling Odysseus about the infant.
For the Puppeteer one, I’ve always heard part of “Legendary”, specifically the “Keep my mom safe” part in the introduction, as a way to introduce Telemachus’ theme before he’s introduced, and a way to say “Ody’s thinking about his son right now, you don’t know this yet though”
thats because the pre-chorus of legendary and that part of puppeteer are repeating the melody from the "Watch where the birds fly, they will lead us to land!" part of Full Speed Ahead!
We call that the "Yearning" motif. Not an official name, but a fan name made by the folks Bog had kindly shouted out at the end of the video because we all do "motif hunt" on Discord together. lol
Clarinetist here. I really love how sneaky Jay has been with the motifs. It gives us (the listeners) a mix of uncertainty. With how hard it can be to hear the ‘danger is nearby’ motif, it can be difficult to tell if the situation is gonna escalate into something dangerous for Odysseus and the crew, which builds up the mystery and suspense of the music itself. Jay has made it so it’s like we are right there with the characters, trying to predict what is going to happen next. When we DO recognise the motif, it’s like a “Oh god, this is gonna be bad” moment and that’s very clever on Jay’s part. My favourite insert of the motif is in Polyphemus, where we meet the cyclops. As said in the video, the version of the motif played near the start is the 13-note motif. With how fast the tempo is here, it’s slightly hard to tell if it is the danger motif, and this is just musical genius. As my clarinet teacher said once, if you use a motif effectively, you can create a sense of unease, not knowing if something bad will happen or not. Jay does this in a way here that you can tell that something isn’t right here, and Odysseus is aware of that as well. It’s like the listener and Odysseus both have this feeling of “Wait, this is suspicious. What is the world is going on?” And I love it.
My interpretation about the final Mutiny one being cut in half is that they can’t even process the danger they are now in, as well as their hurry to escape to match the motif’s hurry to finish.
This is fantastic! It came together really well, I’m glad I was able to help :) Sincerely hope to see more of this, and more success for you and your channel, in the future!
Thank you sincerely for you suggestions. I was only minimally involved in the editing, but please let Mason know I got the idea to add the TV error screen to the teaser transition around 11:08 because of his editing for OAR. I love his humorous edits so much! Goes really well with your and Casper's humour! Yours, Casper and OAR videos always brings me so much joy!
@officialmortius me and 2 other creators are going to do something super fun! We’re going to re create the my little pony theme song but as Epic: the musical 😂😂😂😂😂😂 I will be singing it @feathered_turtle made the lyrics and @irunakichan6745 is going to illustrate it
It sounds very similar, at least for the first half until it begins to repeat the same two notes. You very well could be right. There is a chance though that that specific instance is a “mayhaps”.
Some of these are SO hidden I can’t even hear it even when the notes are shown right there in front of me. How did people find these? Especially the variants, those I still can’t hear the motif
@IcecreamCat23 it took a team of at least five different people actively searching plus a spreadsheet to track and label all of these, im basically just the one to put it together and give it a visual! the short answer is that we all think about this musical a little too much lmao, but thank you for watching!
An interesting note: one motif you show in "No Longer You" is what I'd classify as the "Waiting" motif. It's the same multi-note variation heard when Ody's crew asks, "What's in the bag?" Even more prominent, however, is when Odysseus' mom repeats that motif when singing "waiting, waiting." This exact variation is also present in Penelope's upcoming song in which she's literally singing about how she's waiting for Ody. I think this is even more intriguing, because the "waiting" motif sharing the "danger" motif would point to the fact that one of Ody's biggest dangers is "time."
I have never had any education in music, I can't play an instrument, I can't sing, I can't understand notes; usually I pick up on hints in lyrics, since I'm more knowledgable when it comes to story writing, I loved the subtle call backs to previous songs by the repeating lyrics or lyrics that were similar in structure as in previous songs and videos like these make me appreciate this masterpiece even more. The fact something like this exists and tells a story underneath the surface of the obvious lyrics is incredible and makes me so exited to learn more about the art of music.
@Leo-kz2bb i used to think that as well, but the "captain" chant in ruthlessness actually doesn't match the danger motif, which i figured out when writing out the melody for it on sheet music. but ill be sure to bring that up in a future video, thanks!
First off, very helpful, yes, I love it, BUT ALSO I have a theory. I don't think the danger motif at the start of Circe's Island is anything to do with Circe, it only plays when Eurylochus is trying to talk to him about his secret that he needs to disclose, which we know from the Thunder saga is the wind bag. I also THINK it appears in Luck Runs Out when Eury is raising concerns over Ody's ability to lead. I think the reason for this, as well as it being such a debateable appearance in LRO and more subtle in the background in Pupetteer, is because the danger is Eury's growing discontent with Ody and their fracturing relationship as they lose their faith in each other, especially because the danger motif plays clearly in Mutiny when Ody finally properly confronts him. The way the Circe sage 4-note loop plays in Mutiny when Ody is trying to talk him out of killing the cow makes sense then too, because it's Eury's inability to trust his friend that condemns them all. Also curious about the Ruthlessness "Captain!"s not being the DM, I could swear they are but like you when I wrote them out on sheet music I was like 👀 wait. That's not right. What? But I do find they follow the same pattern so it's almost like... I don't know but it feels intentional. Like maybe it's the absence of safety rather than danger itself. They're crying out to Ody to protect them, and he can't? It's definitely motif-adjacent, there's *something* going on there. Also I love that the OG Danger Motif is the viola which is Penelope's instrument, like his ability to suss out danger is directly tied to his home and his need to get back to his family. It's like it represents his will to live, hence why it goes off when he's being wary. That said I think you're wrong in Mutiny about the choir representing Ody and the viola for Eurylochus, I think it's the opposite - the viola is Ody's will to live and get home to his family, the choir is Eury, who has always been the voice of the crew. But also synths are associated with the monsters and deities and Eury adopts several of them so him having synths makes sense because Scylla was synths and it was the conflict with her that turned Eury well and truly against Odysseus.
Sheet music, audio, and every use within a song, *with* explanations? This video is an absolute blessing! Especially for tone deaf fools like myself (my friends would talk of the danger motif but i couldnt hear it at all, until now that is!)
as a viola player, i love the use of viola throughout the musical. it’s a beautiful instrument that deserves more recognition! i also find it interesting that the danger motif is often played by a viola, which is penelope’s signature instrument in the musical. i like to think it’s penelope trying to warn odysseus of the nearby danger, even when she’s not there and doesn’t know what’s happening
In 4:06 I always thought those notes were the same with full speed ahead with the line “Then 600 men can make this whole place burn so full speed ahead” I didn’t realize it was also a motif, I thought it was just a reusable line that jay threw in there
2:42 could this one be because Odysseus knew the cyclopes COULD be a threat but wouldn't because he had tricked Polyphemus with the whole "My name is Nobody" thing??
Odysseus and Scylla harmonising the danger motif reminds me of the fact that down the road, he uses the same tactic she used, which is to say, aim for the torches to know who to murk next, really brings in the "we are the same you and I" into context.
My interpretation of the double danger motif in Mutiny (vs Eurylocus) is that the louder, more obvious viola part represents the immediate threat Eurylocus poses to Odysseus, while the slower, quieter, and more subtle synth choir part represents the less-obvious threat of the crew. Almost like Eurylocus' overt hostility distracts Odysseus from the rest of the crew, who have more reason to side with their good friend Eurylocus than their captain. A sign that this may have been the intended read is that the viola motif cuts off right before Eurylocus takes his first swing, and the choir motif cuts off right before the crew backstabs Odysseus. Often when the motif is used to represent a real threat, it cuts off right as the threat materializes (bc the motif is the build up to the threat, not the threat itself)
thank you all for watching, and for supporting this video! here's all the timestamps, hope you enjoy :] Act One: 0:00 - Intro 0:15 - The Horse and The Infant #1 0:32 - The Horse and The Infant #2 0:51 - Warrior of The Mind #1 1:30 - Warrior of The Mind #2 1:50 - Polyphemus 2:06 - Survive 2:39 - Remember Them 3:04 - Luck Runs Out 3:15 - Keep Your Friends Close 3:41 - Ruthlessness 4:02 - Puppeteer 4:55 - The Underworld #1 5:27 - The Underworld #2 5:41 - No Longer You #1 5:52 - No Longer You #2 6:06 - No Longer You #3 6:30 - No Longer You #4 Act Two: 6:54 - Scylla #1 6:57 - Scylla #2 7:04 - Scylla #3 7:38 - Scylla #4 8:10 - Scylla #5 (double danger motif) 8:20 - Scylla #6 (a third motif pops up) 8:32 - Mutiny #1 (double danger motif) 8:48 - Mutiny #2 (back to one danger motif) 9:10 - Mutiny #3 9:52 - Mutiny #4 10:42 - Thunder Bringer #1 10:59 - oh god there's more 11:10 - Acknowledgements/Discord Quotes
This is amazing!! I never would have noticed most of these!! You did miss one though!! In No longer you, the background voices say “Siren Song, Scylla Throat, Mutiny, Lightning Bolt” in the motif !!
I think one of my favorite ones that isn't mentioned here is (well it is just not talked about) is the one right after Scylla says "hello". I believe its the full motif as her heads roar, truly showing her danger and power.
it definitely helped that i wasn't alone, there was a group of at least five or more people searching along with me, with Kimmy keeping track through an actual spreadsheet lmao. i definitely couldn't have done this alone!
6:36 I have always heard the chorus chanting “Polyphemus” at the end of No Longer You. I know there’s no words to what they’re saying, but I hear it and now I know why! It’s the same motif
the voices in No Longer You singing "Odysseus" after Tiresia's "you" STRIKES ME OMG NEVER NOTICED although it is not confirmed, it ADDS so much to everything!!!
this is AMAZING!!! the commentary is short and sweet and analytical, please please pleaseee do one on as many motifs as you can!!! especially when the musical is complete!
@@sun_raymond an athena motif video is coming up pretty soon! thank you so much for the support :] i plan to keep going until i've compiled every motif as successfully as possible
Wow thanks so much to everyone who worked to pick these out, especially since I had already resigned to never knowing what the danger motif actually is lol
TYSM!!!!! in my heart freddie will remain forever‼️i adore her so much, im actually planning some stray gods videos in between sagas. i stole freddie's hat for the thumbnail too, it's how i honor her because i know it's what she'd want 🫡
absolutely! his and casper's reactions were quite the inspiration for me regarding this video, and im still over the moon about how mortius himself SHOUTED OUT THIS VIDEO ON HIS CHANNEL :D
@@BogathusDogathusyou honestly deserve that shoutout! Amazing video, you showed the motif really clearly and I love the way you explained the meaning of why they were used in different songs. Also fun fact, I had been singing the danger motif in THATI for so long but i never realized it was THE danger motif, I always thought it was ody's! That was until Casper found it in (I think it was Ruthlessness?). I searched it up and was like "Wait, THAT'S the danger motif?!?"
@ayymenalsabahi5440 thank you so much for all this, i really appreciate the compliments! the whole point of this video was to make the use of the danger motif more understandable and clear to the average EPIC fan (aka anybody who doesn't let this motif quite literally haunt their dreams). i just hope this video can continue to make things clearer for fans in the future!
omg this is literally life saving ive been trying to find the motif outside of horse and infant and ruthlessness for SO LONG but its near impossible for me to distinguish patterns in instruments (idk if that made sense, but-)
In survive, when the crew sings "600 lives at stake, it's just one life to take, and when we kill him then our journey's over..." the danger motif is sung in some of the lyrics (lives, stake, life, take, kill him, journey's over, on me now, not allowed, fight fight fight)
Freaking incredible, thank you so much for doing this, it was so enterteining and now everytime i listen to the song i am going to hear something different and pay more attention, really really thanks
Amazing work!! Love the music sheet and all of your notes! 💖💖 *edit: OKAY WOW. I had originally made this comment as the Cyclops Saga wrapped up -- I was not prepared for the wonderful speculations and thoughts on all of the motifs. This was an absolute joy to watch and kudos to everyone who worked to make this happen!!! This is incredible!!
Awesome video! I was wondering what the danger motif was for a while, and now I finally get it! I would also add in Survive, when Odysseus sings “six hundred lives at stake, it’s just one life to take” it also sounds like the danger motif. It’s like Odysseus and his men see themselves as the danger until Polyphemus kills some of the men and sings that same line, asserting that he is the dangerous one here.
The danger motif is one of the most horrifying parts of Epic, especially when you realize how many times you hear it in certain songs. The prime example is No Longer You and Scylla
awesome seeing this gaining at least a little traction super high quality for a first video, hope you do more (and hope you remember you're able to pin comments lmao)
It's out!!!!! Also, I just want to say how fun it's been to watch your progress in the discord. I haven't really participated in the conversation since I'm the least musically talented person ever, but its been cool to see you guys at work. (I'm Yeeter_King19 btw)
This was incredibly interesting!! I really appreciated the comments you made for each one since I'm not very educated in music so I wouldn't have picked up on some of the details without your comments, I especially thought the Syllia one was super cool, the fact that Odysseus harmonizes to it at the end was really neat, I'm sure this took a decent amount of time to do so thank you very much for the time and effort! I would really love other videos similar to this one for other main motifs or other musical elements of epic if you decide to make more :) thanks again for this it was awesome!!
I was calling this motiff the "Captain, Captain" motiff, cuz we hear the choir singing it while calling to Odysseus Needless to say, this is awesome :3
this is awesome! it's honestly quite difficult for some (see: me) to find the danger motifs bc some are so well hidden, so having them pointed out-with explanations-is great! excited to see more with future sagas to come knowing the danger's never too far away 😸😸
I knew a lot of the more obvious ones here plus scylla's vocals but this video still blew my mind. I'd sort of noticed a some of the 4 note versions of the motif, but it never registered in my brain it was the same motif and infact the danger motif! Plus all the super subtle implementations of it. Sneaky Jorge!!!
I would absolutley love a video for each motif!!! I think the idea of all the differnt instruments and motifs that Jay attaches to each character and action are so interesting and just adds fun little details for listeners!
I love this a lot because it's very comprehensive and put together! But I can not get over 1:20. "(His train of thought being 'my divine sugar momma is about to throttle me')". That made me pause the video and laugh, lol
This is genuinely amazing. I know NOTHING about music, so I was always listening for something basically matching the obvious "Po Sei Don" one from "Ruthlessness". I thought it was just those three notes.
@deathma5939 im so glad you recognize the quote!! stray gods is my number one interest at the moment, and if you couldn't tell from my pfp and the silly hat in the thumbnail, freddie is my idol (ba dum tss). i actually plan to do some stray gods videos during the breaks in between sagas! thank you so much for your support
I love how in Mutiny the 13 note version of the motif is a viola, PENELOPE'S INSTRUMENT!! Because the danger is that Odysseus would do anything to get back to her, so she is indirectly the danger.
Here from Mortius’ recommendation and this is incredible! I’ve heard a few of these but I loved learning about the more hidden ones. Having the notes written out was awesome too! Looking forward to more!!!
I'm fairly certain the Siren song contains an instance of the motif. When they sing. "Let me take the suffering from you." The vocals themselves hit the notes. This is inverted in Different Best as the crew sing, "We won't take more suffering from you." Having become the danger.
sorry, but this isn't true, ive checked the notes and they don't match up with the danger motif. if you're on the epic discord server i can show you! unfortunately you'll just have to take my word for this, but thank you for the comment!
Maybe I’ve just listened to Epic too many times, but every time I start to hear the Danger motif I just start singing along with it and saying “Danger, danger, danger, danger”
Incredibly well put together, and i have no idea how you found all of these 😅 I only ever recognised them in THATI, Thunder Saga, The Underworld, and Ruthlessness (cause Jorge pointed that one out)
I'm no good with music stuff (my musician sister regularly bemoans the fact that I have no natural rhythm) so it's really cool seeing it visually! I've only ever caught the motif in scylla before, although I knew I had probably missed it prior. Thank you for putting it together for the folks like me
Epic is my current obsession and this, absolutely incredible compilation is only fueling that fire lmao. Thank you for your awesome analysis!! Also, this seems like a good place to ask this haha, but there's a motif that I cannot place that plays after Ody opens the windbag in Ruthlessness to escape Poseidon. At first I thought it was the wind god's theme, then I thought it might be Athena's or Odysseus? It confuses me every time I listen. Does anyone recognize where its from?
@Tunality oooooohh this one is some SUPER fun trivia. see, in a super early version of epic, Full Speed Ahead was the first song, and it was narrated by Athena rapping over it! the instrumental of that first draft of Full Speed Ahead was scrapped and then reused for the music that plays after the wind bag is opened in Ruthlessness! so, to answer your question, the motif that plays after the wind bag is opened doesn't come from anywhere specific IN the show. rather, it's a reused bit from a super early version of Full Speed Ahead! here's the link for proof, listen closely to the strings under the rapping! ua-cam.com/users/shortsvAGKbCswKgs?si=SZr178HblJb7YR3P
@@BogathusDogathus you are a gift from the gods!! this lil piece of knowledge has successfully scratched the brain itch, I thought I must be missing something it felt so out of place 😭❤ that IS a super fun detail!! Thank you for sharing it 🥹 and wow, people weren’t kidding when they said the early stages of his music were very Hamilton sounding haha (in the best way) I hope these analysis are as fun for you to make as they are to watch/listen to 🫶~
most of them are so hidden I never even realized they're a danger motif or even there .. I love your analysis and comments on each danger motifs on the songs!
Thanks to you I finally figured out where I heard the tune at the beginning of Puppeteer from. I am not that great at figuring musical things out but I couldn't help but wonder what that motif was. For some reason I never connected it to the previous instances. Now I got it, finally scratched that itch in my brain.
the fact that in Different Beast there is no Danger Motif at all, because Odysseus and the crew are not in any danger, in fact, they are the danger
But at the end of "Scylla" the Danger Motif is used to represent Odysseus being the danger, so I don't think the Danger Motif is used only for dangers threatening them. Maybe Jay simply didn't find a fitting way to incorporate the motif in that song 🤷
Also in no longer you odysseus is the danger
@@robertolanzone but also Odysseus there is a danger to the crew, which is why it might be present. In Different Beast, neither Odysseus nor the rest of the crew are in danger
@@incineakechi5197 Hm, I guess that could be it. To be perfectly honest I find weird how it's included in moments in which it's very arguable how much of a danger is actually there, if we wanna say that they weren't in danger with the sirens only because they had a plan. Idk, probably just me... at the end of the day, I don't care that much, it's still great music I love to enjoy 😋
@@robertolanzone you may never know, maybe they DID implemented it, but in reverse! (i am just halfly joking, i do not have any evidence to show, but it would be interesting)
I don't call the one in "Ruthlessness" the "Danger is near" motif, I call it the "Danger is HERE" motif. 🤣
“CAUSE THE DANGER IS RIGHT THERE” -Mr. Jalapeño, 2023
I just call it the “now you fucked up” motif
Other songs: have at most 4 danger motifs
Scylla:
i like how scylla has so many danger motifs but only 6 guys die
@@lovekittys1239 Scylla has six danger motifs, one for each person and head ig lol
@@lovekittys1239yeah if any of them were to have more Ruthlessness would've made the most sense, as he kills over 500 men
@@TheFlame_Hawk true, I can't help but feel that six danger motifs are intentional
*Inhales *
JORGE!
@@TheFlame_Hawk 558 danger motifs under your command 💀
If you notice in Scylla, the way they sing "Deep down" sounds like the first two notes of the danger motif, almost like they know there's danger approaching but Odysseus is trying to hide how dangerous exactly what they're about to face is
"No longer you" or: "Different variants of the danger is near motif.. because hello, here this is your future: danger, btw is NEAR."
I used to say that No Longer You is _the_ Danger motif song. That is until Scylla came along and upstaged it.
6:41 we did get confirmation a bit ago that the spirits say in order “Siren song, Scylla throat, Mutiny, Lightning bolt, Kill all the suitors for love” so largely referencing the thunder saga
It is saying Odysseus there. The rest come before it
@@TakenUserMiles I thought they were saying Tiresias
They also say posiden in there
9:34 "Similarly to the one at the start of Puppeteer for Circe's island" hah, like father like daughter
@KHAEISTIREDxx14 oml i didn't even make that connection, if that was an intentional helios-circe father-daughter reference by jorge ill freak out. thank you for pointing that out!
oH MY GOD unrelated to what you’re saying, but i never realized that the melody he’s singing is the same as when Zeus was first telling Odysseus about the infant.
Oh wow
For the Puppeteer one, I’ve always heard part of “Legendary”, specifically the “Keep my mom safe” part in the introduction, as a way to introduce Telemachus’ theme before he’s introduced, and a way to say “Ody’s thinking about his son right now, you don’t know this yet though”
Yeah! There’s part of that section that was a melody from Full Speed Ahead which is also in Legendary!
thats because the pre-chorus of legendary and that part of puppeteer are repeating the melody from the "Watch where the birds fly, they will lead us to land!" part of Full Speed Ahead!
We call that the "Yearning" motif. Not an official name, but a fan name made by the folks Bog had kindly shouted out at the end of the video because we all do "motif hunt" on Discord together. lol
Fun fact: Telemachus marries Circe in actual mythology after Odysseus is killed by his son by Circe, Telegonus, who in turn marries Penelope.
@@ceruleaSeaand at the start of Puppeteer too
Clarinetist here. I really love how sneaky Jay has been with the motifs. It gives us (the listeners) a mix of uncertainty. With how hard it can be to hear the ‘danger is nearby’ motif, it can be difficult to tell if the situation is gonna escalate into something dangerous for Odysseus and the crew, which builds up the mystery and suspense of the music itself. Jay has made it so it’s like we are right there with the characters, trying to predict what is going to happen next. When we DO recognise the motif, it’s like a “Oh god, this is gonna be bad” moment and that’s very clever on Jay’s part. My favourite insert of the motif is in Polyphemus, where we meet the cyclops. As said in the video, the version of the motif played near the start is the 13-note motif. With how fast the tempo is here, it’s slightly hard to tell if it is the danger motif, and this is just musical genius. As my clarinet teacher said once, if you use a motif effectively, you can create a sense of unease, not knowing if something bad will happen or not. Jay does this in a way here that you can tell that something isn’t right here, and Odysseus is aware of that as well. It’s like the listener and Odysseus both have this feeling of “Wait, this is suspicious. What is the world is going on?” And I love it.
The one at the start of Polyphemus is my favorite too! I love how it quietly sneaks in as Ody says "it's almost too perfect"
Fellow clarinetist
My interpretation about the final Mutiny one being cut in half is that they can’t even process the danger they are now in, as well as their hurry to escape to match the motif’s hurry to finish.
This is fantastic! It came together really well, I’m glad I was able to help :) Sincerely hope to see more of this, and more success for you and your channel, in the future!
Thank you sincerely for you suggestions.
I was only minimally involved in the editing, but please let Mason know I got the idea to add the TV error screen to the teaser transition around 11:08 because of his editing for OAR. I love his humorous edits so much! Goes really well with your and Casper's humour! Yours, Casper and OAR videos always brings me so much joy!
@officialmortius me and 2 other creators are going to do something super fun! We’re going to re create the my little pony theme song but as Epic: the musical 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I will be singing it
@feathered_turtle made the lyrics and @irunakichan6745 is going to illustrate it
i'm either delusional or full speed ahead has a danger motif when polites spots the island similar to the start of no longer you from the chorus
It sounds very similar, at least for the first half until it begins to repeat the same two notes. You very well could be right. There is a chance though that that specific instance is a “mayhaps”.
there might be danger motif fr
It feels even closer to it when eurylochus joins in that part
I was thinking the same
Some of these are SO hidden I can’t even hear it even when the notes are shown right there in front of me. How did people find these? Especially the variants, those I still can’t hear the motif
@IcecreamCat23 it took a team of at least five different people actively searching plus a spreadsheet to track and label all of these, im basically just the one to put it together and give it a visual! the short answer is that we all think about this musical a little too much lmao, but thank you for watching!
An interesting note: one motif you show in "No Longer You" is what I'd classify as the "Waiting" motif. It's the same multi-note variation heard when Ody's crew asks, "What's in the bag?" Even more prominent, however, is when Odysseus' mom repeats that motif when singing "waiting, waiting." This exact variation is also present in Penelope's upcoming song in which she's literally singing about how she's waiting for Ody. I think this is even more intriguing, because the "waiting" motif sharing the "danger" motif would point to the fact that one of Ody's biggest dangers is "time."
@@justsomeguy1120 I love the “waiting” motif, Odysseus also echoes it in “Would you fall in love with me again” as well
I definitely think the motif in "Luck Runs Out" is meant to be about how dangerous Odysseus's idea is and how dangerous his mind has become.
I have never had any education in music, I can't play an instrument, I can't sing, I can't understand notes; usually I pick up on hints in lyrics, since I'm more knowledgable when it comes to story writing, I loved the subtle call backs to previous songs by the repeating lyrics or lyrics that were similar in structure as in previous songs and videos like these make me appreciate this masterpiece even more. The fact something like this exists and tells a story underneath the surface of the obvious lyrics is incredible and makes me so exited to learn more about the art of music.
There's another one in ruthlessness where they are chanting "captain", you can hear the motif there too
@Leo-kz2bb i used to think that as well, but the "captain" chant in ruthlessness actually doesn't match the danger motif, which i figured out when writing out the melody for it on sheet music. but ill be sure to bring that up in a future video, thanks!
I always thought the 'Captian' matched the Poseidon Chant.
It's definitely close, almost like an elongated danger motif as it climbed higher than the motif does
First off, very helpful, yes, I love it, BUT ALSO I have a theory. I don't think the danger motif at the start of Circe's Island is anything to do with Circe, it only plays when Eurylochus is trying to talk to him about his secret that he needs to disclose, which we know from the Thunder saga is the wind bag. I also THINK it appears in Luck Runs Out when Eury is raising concerns over Ody's ability to lead. I think the reason for this, as well as it being such a debateable appearance in LRO and more subtle in the background in Pupetteer, is because the danger is Eury's growing discontent with Ody and their fracturing relationship as they lose their faith in each other, especially because the danger motif plays clearly in Mutiny when Ody finally properly confronts him. The way the Circe sage 4-note loop plays in Mutiny when Ody is trying to talk him out of killing the cow makes sense then too, because it's Eury's inability to trust his friend that condemns them all.
Also curious about the Ruthlessness "Captain!"s not being the DM, I could swear they are but like you when I wrote them out on sheet music I was like 👀 wait. That's not right. What? But I do find they follow the same pattern so it's almost like... I don't know but it feels intentional. Like maybe it's the absence of safety rather than danger itself. They're crying out to Ody to protect them, and he can't? It's definitely motif-adjacent, there's *something* going on there.
Also I love that the OG Danger Motif is the viola which is Penelope's instrument, like his ability to suss out danger is directly tied to his home and his need to get back to his family. It's like it represents his will to live, hence why it goes off when he's being wary. That said I think you're wrong in Mutiny about the choir representing Ody and the viola for Eurylochus, I think it's the opposite - the viola is Ody's will to live and get home to his family, the choir is Eury, who has always been the voice of the crew. But also synths are associated with the monsters and deities and Eury adopts several of them so him having synths makes sense because Scylla was synths and it was the conflict with her that turned Eury well and truly against Odysseus.
this is probably my favorite comment, i adore all of your analysis and im really glad i could help spark it!
Sheet music, audio, and every use within a song, *with* explanations? This video is an absolute blessing! Especially for tone deaf fools like myself (my friends would talk of the danger motif but i couldnt hear it at all, until now that is!)
4:03 just listening to this now more intently, the danger motif sounds really soothing in puppeteer!
well, that's because Circe is really good at hiding how dangerous she is :3
I didn't recognize it despite it being pretty blatant, which is extremely accurate to Circe herself.
as a viola player, i love the use of viola throughout the musical. it’s a beautiful instrument that deserves more recognition! i also find it interesting that the danger motif is often played by a viola, which is penelope’s signature instrument in the musical. i like to think it’s penelope trying to warn odysseus of the nearby danger, even when she’s not there and doesn’t know what’s happening
In 4:06 I always thought those notes were the same with full speed ahead with the line “Then 600 men can make this whole place burn so full speed ahead” I didn’t realize it was also a motif, I thought it was just a reusable line that jay threw in there
1:21 LMAO- THIS TRAIN OF THOUGHT
2:42 could this one be because Odysseus knew the cyclopes COULD be a threat but wouldn't because he had tricked Polyphemus with the whole "My name is Nobody" thing??
This is great!!! Showing the note really helps in picking out the motif. I didn't realize that the danger moif had so many iterations!
I'm still having trouble hearing some of them bro 🥲
Well i feel like a complete dingus because i thought the danger motif was the drums this whole time! Thank you dude this really helps
HOW DID I NOT NOTICE THE DANGER MOTIF BEING HARMONIZED IN SCYLLA MY HEAD IS REELING HOLY CRAP THATS SO GOOD
Odysseus and Scylla harmonising the danger motif reminds me of the fact that down the road, he uses the same tactic she used, which is to say, aim for the torches to know who to murk next, really brings in the "we are the same you and I" into context.
My interpretation of the double danger motif in Mutiny (vs Eurylocus) is that the louder, more obvious viola part represents the immediate threat Eurylocus poses to Odysseus, while the slower, quieter, and more subtle synth choir part represents the less-obvious threat of the crew. Almost like Eurylocus' overt hostility distracts Odysseus from the rest of the crew, who have more reason to side with their good friend Eurylocus than their captain.
A sign that this may have been the intended read is that the viola motif cuts off right before Eurylocus takes his first swing, and the choir motif cuts off right before the crew backstabs Odysseus. Often when the motif is used to represent a real threat, it cuts off right as the threat materializes (bc the motif is the build up to the threat, not the threat itself)
thank you all for watching, and for supporting this video! here's all the timestamps, hope you enjoy :]
Act One:
0:00 - Intro
0:15 - The Horse and The Infant #1
0:32 - The Horse and The Infant #2
0:51 - Warrior of The Mind #1
1:30 - Warrior of The Mind #2
1:50 - Polyphemus
2:06 - Survive
2:39 - Remember Them
3:04 - Luck Runs Out
3:15 - Keep Your Friends Close
3:41 - Ruthlessness
4:02 - Puppeteer
4:55 - The Underworld #1
5:27 - The Underworld #2
5:41 - No Longer You #1
5:52 - No Longer You #2
6:06 - No Longer You #3
6:30 - No Longer You #4
Act Two:
6:54 - Scylla #1
6:57 - Scylla #2
7:04 - Scylla #3
7:38 - Scylla #4
8:10 - Scylla #5 (double danger motif)
8:20 - Scylla #6 (a third motif pops up)
8:32 - Mutiny #1 (double danger motif)
8:48 - Mutiny #2 (back to one danger motif)
9:10 - Mutiny #3
9:52 - Mutiny #4
10:42 - Thunder Bringer #1
10:59 - oh god there's more
11:10 - Acknowledgements/Discord Quotes
Sweet.
You should probs pin this so it doesn’t get lost if more people comment 👍
@madrone33 unfortunately i can't pin comments as my channel is unverified, but thank you so much anyways for supporting this!
@@BogathusDogathus oh huh! I didn’t know that’s how it works 🤔 interesting
Me neither lol
put this in the description so the timestamps show up in the video bar thingamajig
This is amazing!! I never would have noticed most of these!! You did miss one though!!
In No longer you, the background voices say “Siren Song, Scylla Throat, Mutiny, Lightning Bolt” in the motif !!
Im so glad you brought up the motif in WOTM when Ody introduces himself to Athena!
IT’S FINALLY HERE!!!
This video really delivered. Great work Bog! 5/5 Dairy Queens for you
Hey all I’m Cerulea!
It was amazing to see this awesome video unfold and how much work Bog put in, here’s to future shenanigans and danger motifs! 💖
I think one of my favorite ones that isn't mentioned here is (well it is just not talked about) is the one right after Scylla says "hello". I believe its the full motif as her heads roar, truly showing her danger and power.
Thank you so much for letting me help work on this! I really enjoyed the process, and I hope you keep it up, Bog!
Hey Mochi - I couldn't DM you. Just wanna say miss you at the DIscord! Looking forward to when you're back (if you want to). Hope you're okay. - Kimmy
Hi hi Wolfie from the sever here! Bog you're amazing this is so comprehensive, like how did you even hear all of those? I'm seriously in awe
it definitely helped that i wasn't alone, there was a group of at least five or more people searching along with me, with Kimmy keeping track through an actual spreadsheet lmao. i definitely couldn't have done this alone!
6:36 I have always heard the chorus chanting “Polyphemus” at the end of No Longer You. I know there’s no words to what they’re saying, but I hear it and now I know why! It’s the same motif
Honestly, when I hear this part, I hear something like "Odyphemus", like "Ooooo-dy. Pheeee-mus" (on danger motif rythm, of course)
the voices in No Longer You singing "Odysseus" after Tiresia's "you" STRIKES ME OMG NEVER NOTICED although it is not confirmed, it ADDS so much to everything!!!
"my divine sugar mama is about to throttle me" 😂😂😂😂😂
I WAS JUST THINKING SOMEONE SHOULD DO THIS!!
people like you are exactly why i made this video >:D
this is AMAZING!!! the commentary is short and sweet and analytical, please please pleaseee do one on as many motifs as you can!!! especially when the musical is complete!
@@sun_raymond an athena motif video is coming up pretty soon! thank you so much for the support :] i plan to keep going until i've compiled every motif as successfully as possible
This is amazing, I noticed like 10% of this lmao. Amazing amazing
Wow thanks so much to everyone who worked to pick these out, especially since I had already resigned to never knowing what the danger motif actually is lol
Thank you for this compilation! I would never have noticed all uses of the motif in the songs!
Just placing this here as a time capsule before you blow up: I'm subscriber 61!
22 hours later ive gained 90 more subscribers. youve invested wisely my friend?? i can't believe the success this video has gotten tbh
@@BogathusDogathus YES!!! Investment for the win! You deserve this, friend! (if you want :D)
I love your pfp! If Freddie could hear Epic, this video is exactly what she would make afterwards
TYSM!!!!! in my heart freddie will remain forever‼️i adore her so much, im actually planning some stray gods videos in between sagas. i stole freddie's hat for the thumbnail too, it's how i honor her because i know it's what she'd want 🫡
@@BogathusDogathus I can't wait to see the stray gods vids if you make them. My mind had been taken over by the music of both epic and stray gods
1:21 "divine sugar momma", a Mortius fan, perchance? Edit: My question was litterally answered one second later, lol.
absolutely! his and casper's reactions were quite the inspiration for me regarding this video, and im still over the moon about how mortius himself SHOUTED OUT THIS VIDEO ON HIS CHANNEL :D
@@BogathusDogathusyou honestly deserve that shoutout! Amazing video, you showed the motif really clearly and I love the way you explained the meaning of why they were used in different songs. Also fun fact, I had been singing the danger motif in THATI for so long but i never realized it was THE danger motif, I always thought it was ody's! That was until Casper found it in (I think it was Ruthlessness?). I searched it up and was like "Wait, THAT'S the danger motif?!?"
@ayymenalsabahi5440 thank you so much for all this, i really appreciate the compliments! the whole point of this video was to make the use of the danger motif more understandable and clear to the average EPIC fan (aka anybody who doesn't let this motif quite literally haunt their dreams). i just hope this video can continue to make things clearer for fans in the future!
omg this is literally life saving ive been trying to find the motif outside of horse and infant and ruthlessness for SO LONG but its near impossible for me to distinguish patterns in instruments
(idk if that made sense, but-)
glad i could help! this is exactly why i made this video :]
I would absolutely love to see you make videos on other motifs in Epic!
Thank u for this!! I been waiting for a compilation of the motifs in EPIC because there's so many of them 😍😍
In survive, when the crew sings "600 lives at stake, it's just one life to take, and when we kill him then our journey's over..." the danger motif is sung in some of the lyrics (lives, stake, life, take, kill him, journey's over, on me now, not allowed, fight fight fight)
Freaking incredible, thank you so much for doing this, it was so enterteining and now everytime i listen to the song i am going to hear something different and pay more attention, really really thanks
Amazing work!! Love the music sheet and all of your notes! 💖💖
*edit: OKAY WOW. I had originally made this comment as the Cyclops Saga wrapped up -- I was not prepared for the wonderful speculations and thoughts on all of the motifs. This was an absolute joy to watch and kudos to everyone who worked to make this happen!!!
This is incredible!!
This means a lot to me. I hear people talking about it but i dont have a good ear. One day ill learn how to read music so id understand this more.
Awesome video! I was wondering what the danger motif was for a while, and now I finally get it! I would also add in Survive, when Odysseus sings “six hundred lives at stake, it’s just one life to take” it also sounds like the danger motif. It’s like Odysseus and his men see themselves as the danger until Polyphemus kills some of the men and sings that same line, asserting that he is the dangerous one here.
This was absolutely PHENOMENAL. Thank you so much for putting this together--truly stellar work! Thanks to everyone involved!
The danger motif is one of the most horrifying parts of Epic, especially when you realize how many times you hear it in certain songs. The prime example is No Longer You and Scylla
This might be my new favorite epic video. I bet you, please keep making content like this, I’d love to see a version of the “maybes”
awesome seeing this gaining at least a little traction
super high quality for a first video, hope you do more (and hope you remember you're able to pin comments lmao)
@HaVaJawbreaker i can't pin comments because youtube HATES me but HIIII HI HIIIIIII THANK YOU :3
THIS IS SO HELPFUL THANK YOU!!! please do this with the future sagas, you're a genius for this!!!!
Wow thank you so much for this video
Just goes to show what sort of musical genius Jorge is
It's out!!!!!
Also, I just want to say how fun it's been to watch your progress in the discord. I haven't really participated in the conversation since I'm the least musically talented person ever, but its been cool to see you guys at work. (I'm Yeeter_King19 btw)
Hi!! Do you understand the ice cream jokes now? 😂
@@ceruleaSea mostly. I still don't know which is which, but that's fine
@@ceruleaSea mostly. I still don't know which is which, but that's fine
Woaaah! Such high quality is just *chef kiss*. Understandable, neat and simply amazing. Keep the good work :) 👏
Hey, it’s Calli from the server! This is an AWESOME video and I look forward to seeing your next ones :3
This was incredibly interesting!! I really appreciated the comments you made for each one since I'm not very educated in music so I wouldn't have picked up on some of the details without your comments, I especially thought the Syllia one was super cool, the fact that Odysseus harmonizes to it at the end was really neat, I'm sure this took a decent amount of time to do so thank you very much for the time and effort! I would really love other videos similar to this one for other main motifs or other musical elements of epic if you decide to make more :) thanks again for this it was awesome!!
Thank you so much for putting this together! It's a fantastic break down!
I was calling this motiff the "Captain, Captain" motiff, cuz we hear the choir singing it while calling to Odysseus
Needless to say, this is awesome :3
I expected a compilation of it playing, so having all the explenations and the sheet music was suc a wonderful addition
this is awesome! it's honestly quite difficult for some (see: me) to find the danger motifs bc some are so well hidden, so having them pointed out-with explanations-is great! excited to see more with future sagas to come knowing the danger's never too far away 😸😸
I aspire to the level of detail in my own projects that Jay puts in his music I DIDN’T NOTICE OVER HALF OF THESE
I knew a lot of the more obvious ones here plus scylla's vocals but this video still blew my mind. I'd sort of noticed a some of the 4 note versions of the motif, but it never registered in my brain it was the same motif and infact the danger motif! Plus all the super subtle implementations of it. Sneaky Jorge!!!
I would absolutley love a video for each motif!!! I think the idea of all the differnt instruments and motifs that Jay attaches to each character and action are so interesting and just adds fun little details for listeners!
I like the idea of the spirits saying Ody-sseus in no longer you
I love this a lot because it's very comprehensive and put together! But I can not get over 1:20. "(His train of thought being 'my divine sugar momma is about to throttle me')". That made me pause the video and laugh, lol
This is genuinely amazing. I know NOTHING about music, so I was always listening for something basically matching the obvious "Po Sei Don" one from "Ruthlessness". I thought it was just those three notes.
Everything about this is absolute perfection. And shout out to the Ice Cream Scientist!
4:03 This is the same motif that theres in full speed ahead, “give us to sunrise, and if we dont return, then 600 men can make this whole land burn”
the guitar strings do play that melody, yes! the orchestral strings are looping the danger motif at the same time, so it's like motif-ception lol
Thank you for making this video and i love the quote from Stray gods on your profile.
@deathma5939 im so glad you recognize the quote!! stray gods is my number one interest at the moment, and if you couldn't tell from my pfp and the silly hat in the thumbnail, freddie is my idol (ba dum tss). i actually plan to do some stray gods videos during the breaks in between sagas! thank you so much for your support
@@BogathusDogathus Frankie is by far the best character in stray gods, also now I'm excited for more videos.
@@deathma5939i honor freddie forever by using her hat as a channel signature 🫡
Oh i adore leitmotif analysis you're definitely getting a sub here
Im not as musically inclined so the fact this video exists is amazing ❤ thank you for your hard work!
Mortius brought me here and I'm so glad! Such a perfect video! I still don't get it, but well
Thank you for making this video and sharing your analysis, and thank you comment section for the further analysis. 😂 Love this community ❤
I love how in Mutiny the 13 note version of the motif is a viola, PENELOPE'S INSTRUMENT!! Because the danger is that Odysseus would do anything to get back to her, so she is indirectly the danger.
This was very helpful, have definitely been wondering where and how many times the danger motif comes out in these sagas.
Damn I thought I picked out a lot.... this is nuts how much this is peppered in throughout the sagas
Thank you for pointing them out! I always knew they where there but i couldnt find them.
Here from Mortius’ recommendation and this is incredible! I’ve heard a few of these but I loved learning about the more hidden ones. Having the notes written out was awesome too! Looking forward to more!!!
I'm fairly certain the Siren song contains an instance of the motif. When they sing. "Let me take the suffering from you." The vocals themselves hit the notes. This is inverted in Different Best as the crew sing, "We won't take more suffering from you." Having become the danger.
sorry, but this isn't true, ive checked the notes and they don't match up with the danger motif. if you're on the epic discord server i can show you! unfortunately you'll just have to take my word for this, but thank you for the comment!
Plus fun fact to the end of it: Zeus' returning vocal of "Thunder bring her use and yield her" is sang in the danger motif.
Maybe I’ve just listened to Epic too many times, but every time I start to hear the Danger motif I just start singing along with it and saying “Danger, danger, danger, danger”
Incredibly well put together, and i have no idea how you found all of these 😅
I only ever recognised them in THATI, Thunder Saga, The Underworld, and Ruthlessness (cause Jorge pointed that one out)
This video is amazing!! Please, we need the video about Odysseus' Cunning Motif
I'm no good with music stuff (my musician sister regularly bemoans the fact that I have no natural rhythm) so it's really cool seeing it visually! I've only ever caught the motif in scylla before, although I knew I had probably missed it prior.
Thank you for putting it together for the folks like me
also "Odysseus, they found another danger motif, WAKE UP!!!" is feral behavior btw
I was waiting for this video to come out !
this helps so much, im usually focused on the vocals so i dont hear the complexities of the backing but i adore motifs in music
Epic is my current obsession and this, absolutely incredible compilation is only fueling that fire lmao. Thank you for your awesome analysis!! Also, this seems like a good place to ask this haha, but there's a motif that I cannot place that plays after Ody opens the windbag in Ruthlessness to escape Poseidon. At first I thought it was the wind god's theme, then I thought it might be Athena's or Odysseus? It confuses me every time I listen. Does anyone recognize where its from?
@Tunality oooooohh this one is some SUPER fun trivia. see, in a super early version of epic, Full Speed Ahead was the first song, and it was narrated by Athena rapping over it! the instrumental of that first draft of Full Speed Ahead was scrapped and then reused for the music that plays after the wind bag is opened in Ruthlessness! so, to answer your question, the motif that plays after the wind bag is opened doesn't come from anywhere specific IN the show. rather, it's a reused bit from a super early version of Full Speed Ahead! here's the link for proof, listen closely to the strings under the rapping! ua-cam.com/users/shortsvAGKbCswKgs?si=SZr178HblJb7YR3P
@@BogathusDogathus you are a gift from the gods!! this lil piece of knowledge has successfully scratched the brain itch, I thought I must be missing something it felt so out of place 😭❤ that IS a super fun detail!! Thank you for sharing it 🥹 and wow, people weren’t kidding when they said the early stages of his music were very Hamilton sounding haha (in the best way) I hope these analysis are as fun for you to make as they are to watch/listen to 🫶~
@Tunality they are super fun! im just glad I get to share my observations with people :]
most of them are so hidden I never even realized they're a danger motif or even there .. I love your analysis and comments on each danger motifs on the songs!
Thanks to you I finally figured out where I heard the tune at the beginning of Puppeteer from. I am not that great at figuring musical things out but I couldn't help but wonder what that motif was. For some reason I never connected it to the previous instances. Now I got it, finally scratched that itch in my brain.
Thank you for this video *and* for the visuals! Helps folks like us who are terrible at music hear the motifs!
You are absolutely insane for putting this all together, amazing work 🤩🤩