Horror's Most Insidious Trope
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- Опубліковано 21 гру 2024
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It’s always a scary moment when the movie’s monster is finally revealed, but you know what’s even scarier? When it hides from you in plain sight. When the ones you know and love lie to you to keep you from it.
The horror of deception can be worse than any slasher or beast, and there are a lot of great stories out there that prove it.
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Meh 😑
Could you please do a video on the "Light" of Bungie's Destiny.
Hello, thank you for this vedio
I've known that lies are of the worst things that a person could encounter. And this vedio showed me a new darkness to lies, and realised a few things about myself.
So I will fill my story with lies, and my main character will feel the same towards them, Distaste frustration and understanding
Greetings tale foundry I am an aspiring writer apparently I'm on Wattpad creating some butts about a 5-year extended world war II and the following of one private Mike Green when the book's complete I would love to share it with you and for you to make a video on it
Your channel is very interesting, I have a potential video suggestion which is - Improbabilities as a Magic/Power System and Implosions as a possible Magic System. Also Compensations and Cheering as possible magic systems I think would be interesting to explore in a potential UA-cam video ;) Have a great day or great night.
I run a dnd campaign and had the party meet a character that refers to them self as "The Philosopher". Each time the party meets them they give them a mission or a question etc and impart a lesson on to them. With time the lessons became grimmer. Until the final lesson was "Everybody is out for them self's and trust nobody", the Philosopher then attempted to kill the party to clean up any loose ends. The Philosopher failed to do so as the party ran and didn't fight. But the betrayal caused plenty of turmoil and untrust between them self's and the other npc's.
That’s a very good idea. I love shit like that
damn that's pretty deep
Cooool! Do you think they would have won??
@@joycewible8816 Against the Philosopher alone, Yes. But he is able to create or at least call minions to his aid. So a truly real fight would have been a coin toss. Purposefully hard and meant to debilitate them more than hurt them.
@@spoon1710 Last session we successfully avoided a fight with a matron mother of a Drow house and if we hadn't, it would have probably been a TPK bc she had a demon in the room with her 🙈
As someone who suffered from regular suicidal thoughts for over a decade, that talk about self deception really hit close to home for me. In a good way. It definitely feels supportive to hear it talked about in a respectful way.
In case anyone is wondering about the suicidal thoughts, I eventually got some counseling and haven't had any major incidents for a few years now. I can still (metaphorically) see those Dark Woods in the distance, and I doubt I'll ever be truly free of them, but I am doing a lot better. I know what triggers to be mindful of, what little maintenance tasks I need to do, and I have a few techniques for if I feel like I'm slipping. One day at a time. Some days are harder than others, we all have bad days, but I am doing better for the most part.
I’m glad your fine my dude
@@obi-wankenobi9471
Thank you, General Kenobi.
you're not the only one buddy. and yes. i am doing better now
i think asmr and nightcore helps, but glad you got counseling, i wish you the best
@@Khaizmin
Big virtual hug, buddy. Sorry you had to go through it, but proud that you are doing better.
“The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world that he did not exist.” - Charles Baudelaire is a great quote about the enemy hiding in plain sight
It's far more greater a trick to make you believe he is your friend.
@@dantegreciante7984 yup, its the worst trick ever
the greatest trick ever pulled was actually the church making people believe that the devil existed at all :)
@@gabusdeux this is sort of a paradox but i guess it depends on the person's values
@@gabusdeux r/atheisms most intelligent poster
This is honestly part of why I love OMORI so much, the entire game is centered on a series of lies and the people effected by them, and you spend the game slowly finding out these lies as you slowly inch towards the truth, and when it's finally revealed, it's devastating, mainly because of how it effects the other people, you dread revealing the dreadful truth to your friends who all believe a already horrible, painful lie. The best part about this is that none of it comes out from nowhere ether, the truth is plastered everywhere in background, lurking, where you don't even notice it unless you already know it and are actively looking for it.
How i wish I didn't get spoiled immediately after finding out about omori a couple of months after it relased over a year ago, i mostly stayed for the memes and wear this pfp with pride, but i definitely missed out on a great emotional investment experience
@@Josuh Yhea that sucks, well at least you still have mods to give you some suprises.
"YOU DID IT!"
@@Josuh Similar thing happened to me! I wanted to play the game so badly but it’s age rating was too high so I had to wait first, but then someone spoiled the entire plot twist for me! Do you think it’s even worth playing at this point when I know not to get attached at all?
@@kaleenar963 I think it's totally worth playing even if you know the twist. It puts it into a whole new light once you get attached to the characters and their story, in my opinion.
I was not expecting Bloodborne from Tale Foundry, but man, am I glad! Of course, I should have expected it since you lot also love cosmic horror! Also, wonderful job breaking down some of those themes! Poor, Gerhman....
No mercy for wheelchairs
@@biomechnicalhuman4851 oh but when I say that, I get a parking ticket
@@james-michaelrobson287 just some casual crime...
You're in the know, right...?
The sky and the cosmos are one
I felt the exact same, it was a also shocking as I was playing less than an hour ago.
I feel this so deeply. I have an extreme phobia of trust. I've been deceived by my family, my friends, my abusive ex, even myself. And you're right, your world does become extremely small. I talk to 4 people regularly in my life and sometimes I even pull away from them. That's when it really gets lonely. It's hard to be this afraid of trusting people. I try to convince myself to take these little leaps of faith and just talk to others but I can never manage to go through with it. Now, I just spend all my time in bed and kept to myself. I'm in therapy but the phobia is just too big for me. My fight, flight, or freeze kicks in and I'm normally a fighter but with this, I just freeze. It just feels too big, too terrifying to overcome.
You wanna talk?
I love writing a good mystery, and lies are almost vital for this kind of thing. If there's a murder, somebody doesn't confess. If there's a secret, somebody isn't speaking. And it's so much worse when more people are wrapped up in the lie, or even convince themselves of it.
There is literally a whole ending to Bloodborne based around breaking the cycle. Beating Gehrman frees him from the Hunter's Dream. That's why you replace him in ending two. But if you beat the Moon Presence and achieve apotheosis, you *can't* replace him. With Gehrman gone and no replacement available, it's over. Without somebody to fill the Gehrman role, a new hunter can not be tied to the Dream. It is literally impossible for the cycle to continue as it had.
Unless I'm mistaken, that ending also dooms the world to be destroyed, does it not?
@@Sylfa not really, the trophy description states that your character will lead humanity to its next step of evolution. But overall it's mostly left to interpretation.
@@Sylfa You are definitely mistaken.
Unless, unbeknownst to you, you've only replaced the Moon Presence and will find someone else to replace Gehrman once you've matured more.
(I hope that's not the case, in fact it's my favorite ending because i don't believe that to be the case. But still, intrigueing thought)
But this represents the ultimate betrayal of self.
The Magnus Archives podcast does some great things with this concept, along with many other fears. I highly recommend
I was waiting for a Spiral reference lmao
@@blakewalker4733 “I AM THE THROAT OF DELUSION INCARNATE.”
onhl this just reminded-
so true
The only really bad thing I can say about the Magnus Archives is that it's so good that other recommended horror podcasts just seem paltry in comparison. I highly recommend the Magnus Archives to just about anyone. It's even great if you have a specific trigger as each episode comes with highly detailed trigger warnings, and while the overarching mysteries might get harder to solve by skipping episodes it won't ruin the whole if you need to skip some.
As someone who spent 15 or so years being abused mentally, emotionally and other horrific ways by a parental figure, I can definitely say how warped your perspective becomes. When that’s all you’ve known and it becomes your normal, your skin crawls and stomach flips when you learn to process and understand what actually happened. Then I found out that my abuser wasn’t even my biological father which made my reality split even more at the age of 16.
Even though my biological father is a good man and has welcomed me with open arms, it still feels wrong in a way to call someone ‘dad’. Men make me uncomfortable even if they’ve done nothing to indicate they’re a threat. My mind’s eye sees them as ravenous wolves just waiting for an opportunity. My entire perception is twisted and tainted. Even at the age of 22 I’m dealing with the scars. It’s taken years to fully understand what happened to me. The depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts are still there even though I’ve been away from my abuser for years. Not to mention I’ve only recently realized I might be on the autism spectrum so my brain already processes things differently.
All this to say, you don’t realize how damaging those lies and deception can be until you really have time to sit and go over it again and again in your head. You get angry, frustrated, you may even start to blame yourself. I’m still struggling with that to this day but I thankfully don’t blame myself as much as I use to. It’s a slippery slope that takes a lot of energy to get out of, let alone to not fall into again.
A great book I read earlier this year where this theme plays a big part is Dark Harvest by Norman Partridge, about a small American town with an annual ritual on Halloween. For most of the youths taking part in the ritual, it's a chance at freedom and to leave their town for good. But the adults in the community know differently.
Anyway, I highly recommend it, especially with a movie version coming out later this month and the Halloween season having just begun.
There's a similar ritual in "American Gods" by Neil Gaiman. There is a town of idyllic if stagnant happiness. But every year one of the young people disappears. It looks like they've run off and why not? The town isn't dying, exactly. But there's nothing new and the opportunities for growth are almost non-existent. They also have a ritual in which a car is set upon the ice of a frozen lake during the cold months and people take bets as to when the ice will melt and send the car plunging into the depths of the lake. Then one man realizes just where the missing teenagers have gone and the town's collusion in their disappearances...
Unknowing collusion, to be fair. The townies aren’t actually aware that they’re conducting a blood sacrifice to an ancient entity.
@@Muljinn they made it Perfect clear in the book that everyone over the age of 20 is in on the blood sacrifice.
@@rami_ungar_writer since they use the term collusion, which appears in Queen Boadicea’s comment but not yours, I would assume they are replying to Queen Boadicea, and not you. Could be wrong though, as they didn’t @ her.
The thing about Bloodborne is, the Church is not the top level of that pyramid of deception. It's the Moon. The player character literally leaves themself a note, "seek Paleblood to transcend the Hunt", but Paleblood finds you first... and takes you in as her beloved chosen one.
Thats requires our beloved robot to unlock the said ending by finding and "consuming" 3 umbelical cords
But yes, you are right. Moon presence, the embodiment of moon (also known as the pale blood) is the main mastermind of all this deception and at the top of the pyramid of lies
Why? Idk, its been 7 years and no one still has answer to that, personally imo, he is just racist toward other great one beings, ESPECIALLY oden because he is invisible
Isn't it equally possible the note came from someone else? Either the Blood Minister, or perhaps even from someone else entirely? A note _given_ to the Minister? A note left by some _other_ traveler? The meaning works out to be pretty much the same from the player's perspective, it's just a slight wrinkle in the lore I guess?
Is it not also possible that "Paleblood" doesn't directly refer to the Moon Presence in particular, but rather it amounts to the same meaning as the note we see in the Lecture Hall: "Hunt the Great Ones. Hunt the Great Ones," as _all_ cosmic enemies appear to shed a pale-looking blood?
Is it not also also possible that the Moon Presence was _attracted_ by the actions of the Healing Church when they accidentally discovered the Pthumerian catacombs beneath the city, rather than _all_ of the game's story, including the discovery of Healing Blood, being entirely kicked off by the Presence? I actually find that explanation a lot more narratively satisfying, as there's just too much that's mutually exclusive going on in Yaharnam that the Moon Presence undoubtedly doesn't really care about, stuff outside their grand scheme
it seems the Moon Presence was using you as a tool to destroy other Great Ones. Indirectly guiding an oblivious(or not so oblivious) hunter to exterminate them.
@@armet4513 Oh, she absolutely was!
Deception is the scariest thing anyone can experience. As a community based creation, if the community rejects us or hates us, it both taps into the horror of instability and being unable to find help. That’s why stories where that horror happens and is reversed with at least one truthful person, the story feels wholesome and like a victory.
Wow. I’m a survivor of so much trauma that was done by the hands of the people I trusted the most. The ones I was supposed to trust the most. I’ve been deceived and disillusioned so many times that it feels like I have thick layers of psychological scar tissue on my tender empathetic heart. You made me feel seen in a way that I don’t think media has ever done so before. Thank you, from the bottom of my forever-sensitive heart.
I felt the same way watching this video, I hope you’re healing from your trauma and know your not alone
@@makq0025 thank you for your kind comment. I am making strides toward healing. It helps to remember that I’m not alone. 💙
The only trope I love more than this one is that of humanizing the monster itself - if you found out you were a monster, you’d strive to understand when, how, and why. Same goes for people who’ve been lying to you your whole life. What is a monster really when we shift that perspective to align with the monster itself? Does understanding lead to reconciliation and eventual dissipation of the monster? And where did it come from? The answer to that may reveal the biggest monster itself - the originator of all monsters.
A good example of this is Silco from Arcane - completely broken from a betrayal and instead of healing he pours all his life and energy into a revolution for his own people who fight him every step of the way. He by all means should be the hero - fighting the good fight against fascism - but the break in spirit turns him ruthless. Does that even matter if it results in a free nation? That's up to the viewer.
I imagine a lot of historical figures who fought for justice and independence have similar backgrounds.
Silco barely ended up fighting for justice and just sought out power and control after the betrayal. especially by getting half of undercity addicted.
Castlevania is such a good series. The way the characters are written is masterful.
In my own life, I remember going to the theatre to see Tangled when I was 17. I had a very distinct feeling when Gothel was singing "Mother Knows Best", but I couldn't quite put my finger on why. Over the years, I've come to understand the gaslighting and emotional abuse I went through. It's easier to call it out now, but the traces are still there. I'm starting to understand how I'm deceiving myself about who I am and what I can do; I just hope I can get past it someday.
Same here. As the dad of a girl, I saw tangled for the first time this year, and Gothel might s well have been my real life family.
@@richiecastle460 It was a strange feeling, being that uncomfortable and not quite understanding why. Even now I still feel weird saying that I was in fact gaslit. I think that movie was a "Whoa" moment for a lot of kids/people.
@@corinna007 yeah. same here honestly.
I'm so happy you mentioned the Mandela Catalogue! I love analog horror and that one is so good with how detailed and real it feels
Oh man what insane timing!
I just watched a video explaining how good Bloodborne is and how it deceived everyone!
This is amazing!
Which video? Was it from Gingy?
All hail the algorithm.
“Deceived by Family” can be summed up by 4 words:
“Long Live The King.”
If you know, you know.
NOOOOOOO
Damn you, Scar!
Everyone knows
One of the saddest moments in ANY movie from my childhood.
@@Chemical_Agent4340 F
I'd call it the horror of recontextualization. The sudden click of "wait the situation isn't what I thought it was" and realizing you're in a terrible situation way too deep and unknowingly walked yourself there.
You are right. Others don't necessarily need to lie to the character, they might genuinely believe in their ways and don't have any betrayal in mind
There is so much about this that hits home for me. I'm someone who has been struggling to trust my own judgement, having been manipulated by "Friends" I should never have listened to because I felt sorry for them. Even as I type this, doubts emerge if I am even remembering these experiences right. I see it myself and all around me time and time again and I feel so powerless to help those I love, the world I love.
How much more needless suffering do people need to endure before we realize that we don't need hatred? We don't need secrecy? Awareness and understanding are the greatest strengths we have and it takes an incredible amount of sheer determination to live while aware of a great lie... and not let that awareness drive you to madness.
The horror is in the betrayal, not just the deception. Which is absolutely fair.
Tale Foundry: When the monster is hiding in plain sight
Me: Ah yes, that be the Nike Corporation-
Bezos lotr
I love how your videos on paper seem like rather simple discussions. when you think about Villains hiding in Plain sight, you think of that as something literal, something that Tale Foundry would explain in media, but you just keep going deeper into the rabbit hole into equally deep topics. it's really neat. Also starting off the video with Bloodborne is immediately a win-win lmao
To open with Bloodborne is already a powerful start to this 24 seconds ago uploaded video.
The story isn't done but this did actually give me some inspiration for the story settings sense a lot of it is built dicevers in places of power and the main cast realizing what they've actually been living through, including one of them realizing they technically have been one of the higher powers that participated in causing the problem, and one realizing she gave up her life just to cause more people the same fate she had,
Fantastic video! I recently pulled something like this with a character in my Star Wars RP. We went to the planet of Bandomeer and Gargon, ruled by an ancient order of Force Users known as the Knights of Ashla. A proud order of warriors and scholars who take an oath to never use the force in anything outward. Only to use it to enhance one's own abilities, to feel the world around them, and to heal. Anything else is seen as showing off or even blasphemy. And they usually don't get along with the Jedi because of this. The players after "saving?" the planet of Ando from the Separatists. Were called by the Jedi council to go to Bandomeer which is torn on what side of the war to take. One of the members is made the Senator of the world Selonia. And a battle begins on the world of Taris near Bandomeer which forced our Jedi General Master Seerl Bru (our group's Jedi Padawan's Master) to separate from the group while they went to represent the Republic to sway Bandomeer to their side. The world of Bandomeer is blockaded by the Trade Federation, civil war is about the break out, and refugees from Taris cry desperately for escape to Bandomeer and Gargon. The group meets with Bandomeer's Senator. Senator Oranis. A calm and deliberate man. But unlike many other Senators in the Republic was very kind to others and listened carefully to their struggles. Oranis invited the group into his home and introduced him to his aging Father. The group helped Oranis protect is home from strange Night-creatures which killed dozens of their Ashla Knights. They then went deep into the jungles and faced many hostile life until running into these giant ancient protectors of Bandomeer, and their speaker, a small orange fish with a deep connection to the force. And through the fish they learned of the Ashen of Bogan (which in the RP is the source of the Dark Side. The Dark Side in the RP being completely unnatural yet all encompassing, and was synthetic rather than natural like the Light. But Light in this RP didn't necessarily mean good). And that these creatures, the battle of Taris, the Civil war, and everything was being done by a Cultists who worshipped the Ashen of Bogan as a God that believed through the Dark Side, organic life would be freed from the vile control of the so called "Will of the Force". This Cultist was simply known as The Shade. Upon returning the group told Oranis and his father about the Shade. But they worried no one would believe them, but Oranis would try and help them find this Shade. Later that day they left for the debate where the group stood for the first time not as soldiers but as Diplomats, using their guile and words to sway the people of Bandomeer and Gargon to the Republic. But only resulting in further division. During the meeting, one of the Councilwomen assassinated the Trade Federation Minister, and when questioned, it was revealed she was in a trance. Before they could find out more she was killed by a sniper. After capturing the sniper the group asked Oranis for help on finding out what happened. He revealed to them that his home was attacked and he was searching desperately for his father. So he had sent the group to two different locations. One to meet with the Separatist Diplomat. The Other to meet with the Captain of the Trade Federation vessel blockading Bandomeer while he searched for his father and tried desperately to prevent the other Councilmen and woman from mustering their armies and going to war. The Group that went to the Diplomat found they were talking to an imposter, a Clawdite with the real Diplomat being taken somewhere else. They were attacked by horribly mutated guards who used the Dark Side to capture all but the Selonian Senator. With the other group running into the Shade himself who through them around like puppets on a string. Several being horrifically injured, one dead, and only two escaping (including our Wookie and Jedi Padawan) but only barely and with a bounty on their head and their communications broken (thus with no way to call for help). Back on Bandomeer, the Selonian Senator met with Oranis as a Ashla General named Vendu started a Coup to seize power, and offered safety from the return of the Ashen of Bogan by The Shade. Oranis and the Selonian Senator were captured and taken to a prison with everyone else on the frozen world of Gargon. There they met a Duros (who turned out to be Cad Bane) who was hired by the Shade to help them escape. In hopes that Oranis trying to take back power would result in more death and chaos to better fuel the Ashen's return. During their escape, a terrible blizzard stroke the facility. Two attempted to escape but the storm attacked them. Revealing it wasn't a natural blizzard. Causing severe damage to our Droid and blinding the Selonian Senator... Permanently. The two were then surrounded by 70 of the Night-creatures from earlier and instead of being eaten or killed were taken prisoner. And on their way back, it will be revealed to them. That the Shade was their most trusted friend and ally. Oranis. Who orchestrated everything since the start of the story of Bandomeer. And after revealing it only to my staff members, the reactions they had were absolutely priceless. And now they dread how the reveal will affect everyone else. Knowing, they were betrayed by their greatest friend and ally. Not for any particularly personal reasons, Oranis had nothing against them. He just saw them as convenient pawns, people who would suck up to him, and would find every justification to avoid saying it was him until it was too late. And by pure luck, everything went perfectly. And Everyone still refuses to think it's Oranis. So their reaction to the truth, will be amazing X3
This reminds me deeply of the lil story ive been mulling over, the main question the whole story starts with is "what if you became god and your dreams and focused thoughts became flesh and life?" what if you became a eldritch god among your own craft?"
Just because of my personal history: are there storys where you/the main character is the monster? Where the only thing you have to fear is your own action? Would be pretty interesting to See a narrative like that
Edit: seems that there are far more than I thought, but I ll try to check all of these out, crazy that I dont know any of these. Thanks for the suggestions!
This may be a bit of a spoiler for the movie and book, but Fight Club applies to that sorta I think
Though I don't want to say much more as to not spoil it too much
The game OFF would qualify. French surrealist rpg maker game.
@@magneter102 we don't talk about fight club- /j
The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde is very much that. There is also a RPG Maker game called The Witch House (sorry about the spoilers)
idk if omori counts but it sorta fits this
I like deception stories because of the shifted perspective.
I find this story model the best because you only need to build a world once and you get the effect of an estranged/alien world by revisiting the same one with a new perspective and the return to home aspect of the hero's journey being when the major threat is averted. It also adds a lot of depth without the need to explain new threats in order to maintain story pace since the world's defense mechanism was experienced by the protagonist while they were being "protected" by it. This frees up space to either focus on the action or other concepts with these already familiar obstacles.
tl;dr I like writing deception/betrayal stories because it allows you to reuse assets but in a different way which saves time, saves the reader the headache of learning new stuff, and further develops the existing world.
This hit me too hard. I had to leave the LDS church because of the abuse it facilitates and evilness of their actions. Good video.
I’m glad someone else recognized that building.
I love the pull of No Longer Human, seeing Osamu Dazai among Sondheim and Miyazaki is so cool to me!!
You did great work on this! 😄
@@TheTaleFoundry So did you!! This came together so incredibly well 😁
Horrifying idea and concept to play with, loved hearing ya’ll talk about it!
Wow. This is the first video I've ever seen on this channel and it's amazing. The story telling mixed with fun and interesting animation! Great work my friend.
I am sadly very familiar with self deception. You see I grew up very charismatic, intelligent, and a fairly good looking guy. And I threw it all away for an addiction. This was the ultimate form of self deception for me. I knew what I was doing was destroying everything yet I kept going until the point where you wouldn't even have recognized me from what I was before. Completely self deluded, self destroying, self hating, and self deceiving. Rationalizing every slow step down further and further until I was nothing but a homeless, penniless, and soulless machine in a cycle of brief moments in heaven and long hours in hell for years upon years, deep into weekly bouts of psychosis and constant pain. When I finally would sleep I would wake up confused and vaguely remember the strange nightly wanderings and running from hallucination and horrible nightmares. Then I would start all over again.
Once I finally found a grip and slowly and painfully dragged myself back up from the bottom I see all too clearly what self deception can do. Everything came easy for me so a built a monster i thought i could control and was destroyed by it.
But, that's all done now. I'm 4 years clean and slowly but surely building back my life. I'll never be same but who is. All I can do just like in Bloodborne or any story is keep moving forward and use the tools I've learned to keep that ever present monster I created at bay.
Sorry for the drama, can't help myself. Thanks for reading whoever reads this!-SLD
I'm so happy you've found a way out! That's amazing to hear. Keeping living that good life, honest with yourself every day. :)
-Benji, showrunner
@@TheTaleFoundry Thank you. 👻 Will do.
when u talk about how abuse is revealed and how it’s worse when it’s someone u care about. I can say personally that ur right I didn’t learn about a lot of the abuse I went through during my childhood at the hands of supposed family and friends until much later in life and it was horrifying to find out the people who were supposed to love me unconditionally assaulted me and did their best to make me afraid of everything on this damn planet just realizing it was all fake years of “love” disappeared in seconds just holy shit spoooky stuff
As someone who just left a somewhat controlling partner this really touched home with me.
It is scary. And it's hard to find yourself again.
See, this is why I'm emotionally invested in my companion and working animals. They might fail you sometimes, but it's not as if they did it with malicious intent. A dog will never lie to you; your cat can't deceive you in any meaningful way, despite their best efforts sometimes. A horse will work as hard as it can for you if you ask it the right way.
People are too human for me sometimes. Can't trust em.
Spec Ops: The Line (Video Game) is a great case study of deception by yourself, it's a rollercoaster of emotion if you wishes to play it give it a go.
And also. "Do you feel like a hero yet?"
An interesting take on Bloodborne. I loved it for combining a more traditional gothic horror aesthetic with cosmic horror lore. But for all the different concepts I associated with (fear of being consumed from within by disease or insanity, the terror of birth, Lovecraftian hopelessness, spiritual Insight, etc.), deception was one I had not considered. And yet, it's absolutely everywhere. Killing Rom literally pulls back the curtain and reveals what Mensis did, which was there the whole time, but hidden. And that's without taking anything in the Hunter's Nightmare into account.
I really should have joined the Vilebloods...
Well that hit really fucking hard.
There's another angle to the whole "the truth reveals that the people you trust are monsters and none of it was real". Where revealing a truth about yourself causes those people to throw you to the ground and rip your heart out, revealing that every kindness, every piece of that close bond was predicated on maintaining your facade. Revealing that they never cared about *you*, only the image of who they imagined you to be.
A slightly older gaming reference that always comes to mind when discussing Bloodborne: What a horrible night to have a curse.
Elden Ring's plot is literally so many layers of conspiracy and deception, the only character who never lies is Goldmask and that's because all he ever says is "..."
The dogs never lie
My man Alexander never lies 😤
@@lerombus6020 Sure he does, he said he wanted to fight you cause you're great hero. In reality he was cracked and jealous of your power, so just wanted you to kill him.
@@ThrottleKitty where is this said? He actually just wanted to go out in a good fight. It’s the way of the warrior jar. And if you don’t want to fight him, just don’t speak to him again.
@@lerombus6020 Context? Every time you talk to him he's super depressed about not being good enough and always being easily damaged, then it takes like 3 hits to kill him.
This hit me really hard. I’ve been betrayed by those closest to me so many times I try not to let anyone close. This was a very very well done video
Bloodborne is THE BEST video game I have ever played. It's a true work of art in the modern age. I grew up on the greats through the NES, SNES and N64/PS1 systems and went through every legendary piece, and somehow, this title shines bright like like those old classics. It's hard to explain... Even still, this Lovecraftian gold should be experienced by everybody.
Thanks for inspiring me to illustrate a recent heartache as a story, I think that’ll help. Much appreciated
As someone with did and bpd, I was not expecting to relate to a video of yours on such a deep level outside of just wanting writing advice on how to further my fictional book.
Omori is a perfect example of deceiving yourself and friends
Absolutely! The awfully great thing about it is the fact that it’s a videogame plays into its story perfectly!
You get so carried away with the genuinely good gameplay, that even though you *know* that it’s coming, it still gets you when you’re off your guard. And the gameplay only makes you love the charming world and characters more, even when you know none of it is real.
Finding out what happened to mari is so wonderfully cruel. Great game, good portrayal of trauma and a brilliant psychological horror!
omori is just the biggest cope imaginable
yes but unfortunately the game stretches so damn long
@@layonyatsu7203 you can argue it was done thematically but I do agree reducing how long it takes to get anything somewhat juicy.
Omori was made by a pedophile. Lisa is a far better example
I'd really recommend the podcast The Magnus Archives, which features a monster which is the physical (or at least, semi-physical) embodiment of this idea.
As someone with a psychologically abusive mother, the most painful part of this kind of betrayal is most times others won’t see it as overtly horrible and gaslight you all over again. I gaslight myself all over again.
Well thanks Tale Foundry; because of this video I was reminded of the visual novel The Song of Saya written by Gen Urobuchi.
The plot hook alone of a young man whose basic senses are warped by a now broken brain morbidly fascinates me, yet the ramifications of its story haunt me more than the Lovecraft the story takes obvious roots from.
YOOOOO! I love Saya No Uta! High-five, I never run into anyone who knows it!
These videos are amazing and honestly it’s stunning! I love how you cover stories from novels, movies, web stories, video games and more! There’s a story I think you’d be interested called “The Last Unicorn” , both the novel and the book are stunning but the movie left a greater impact on me for many reasons. On it’s outer surface it seems like any other magical story but once you look carefully you really see what character growth looks like.
I've been DMing for several years now (mostly 3.5e, some 5e).
one of my favorite creations so far is a god of magic named Boo. He looks like a ball of black tentacles, bones, limbs, and eyes. He eats brains, is a necromancer, and is descended from Tiamat. (part dragon)
He is the god of Friendship, The Weave (Magic), and Radioactivity (Domains), Lost Children, Abominations and Eldritch beings.
He is actually a good god, despite the horror. And his follower base consists of cultists. Friendship Cultists.
I laugh my ass off every time the party gets surrounded by cultists making a magic circle around them, only to find out that it was a "Protection From Evil" spell, and that the cultists they (usually) killed were only trying to befriend them.
My friend once said to me
"Do you know why I think Boo is absolutely terrifying?"
"... because he's a ball of tentacles and spiked bones with all black eyes and an oversized toothy grin?"
"Yes, but also because despite ALL THAT, He is incredibly kind and very 'human'. You look at him and you're like 'oh my god that's horrifying...' and with those beady eyes peering into your soul he says 'Hey, do you like candy? I made some. And I used only my own blood this time!'."
You know, this video was the first I ever heard of _Bloodborne._ It is now one of my favorite games. Thank you.
...stars, you put this video out in 2022. I can't believe I've been watching your videos for two years.
This video is a very juicy topic and very timely for me as I'm writing two stories that involve different levels of deception from trusted figures. Thank you for your incredible insights!
For creative fiction, mostly I GM and Play in TTRPG's, the likes of D&D and GURPS most specifically. I've been at it more than 35 years, so there's no shortage of world-building OR lying and deception that I've contributed to both games/systems...
Among my favorite tactics, though I'll STRONGLY advise it be taken very SPARINGLY is running an in-party Betrayal... Understand, up front, that I've had exactly ONE PC survive this, and it was a nearly monumental screw-up that wiped out the party, aligned him with the BIG Villain, and resulted in the GM taking the PC sheets and we all rolled up new characters to start the Campaign of hunting my old PC and his "best buddy" (villain) to kill them horribly... SO while it wasn't completely without merits, it was a lot less satisfying than my PC getting himself killed by the rest of the Party... which IS kind of the point of a Betrayal Character Role... You should probably understand that as well. It CAN help to know your fellow Players well enough to know if they'd be onboard with the betrayal, but that kind of takes the piss out of the tactic to just bluntly ask them up front... Rather I recommend you PLAY a while with the group and get to know them more personally first... If it still seems like a good idea, THEN clear it with the GM in a private chat. There's no surprise if everyone knows you're about to run a betrayal, and they'll just kill you off the bat and move on... BUT a good betrayal, so long as you don't mind scrapping your Character when the reveal happens, as most Players (99.9999999% in fact) ABSOLUTELY WILL MURDER the betraying PC, and rightly so!!!
BUT for those obnoxious levels of "A kick in the nuts" emotionally, I can't think of a better or more gnarly SURPRISE...
Anyway... most of us HAVE experienced some form of betrayal, deceit, and abuse in our lives. It scars us. It's worth putting into our fiction BECAUSE we can all find it so damnably relatable. It's why we sink emotionally into the horrors and disbelief of it all, and even dwell on the visceral contexts and possibilities even well after the show, game, story, plot-line... or Role Playing Game, and the event of the "big reveal". The harder that hit, the longer we remember and the more fervently we think about it, return to it, and wonder at the "what if" of it all...
Obviously, as I intimated earlier, that you should Role Play with a group for a while to get their general attitudes, maturity, and all with the game, that means you certainly SHOULD NOT pull a Betrayal plot on any first time Players. They can quickly get a very foul sense of the Game, and even that it is just a Game, it's an emotionally engaging and often deeply engaging kind of Play. We spend hours crafting our heroic or villainous Player Characters, while the GM spends maybe a minute on random monsters and baddies to chuck at us to get slaughtered or whatever... Even great villains often only gradually come together but in minute investments of in-game time... Some of my best only really needed about an hour's work, total. SO it's understandable that the time and effort invested for compelling backstories, statistics, interesting personalities, and clever thinking into names or interests and motivations... etc... Players LOVE their Characters and get pretty pissed off when you do something despicable to them... let alone if you kill them. AND if someone can't handle it, then maybe the whole Betrayal is just not a great idea for THAT group... No good comes from destroying an otherwise wonderful and healthy friendship.
I've seen tears shed by grown adults over beloved PC's and NPC's... (NonPlayer Characters)... SO it's quite understandable that some groups simply lack the psychological fortitude to handle a good Betrayal Plot... As much as I love it, it can also be simply over-done, too. We don't want to teach fellow Players to become burnt-out murder-hobo's, either. BUT when a good plot pulls together with a shocking revelation, it's worth getting murdered a little horribly. The other Players' collective looks of pure shock and horror is generally worth the abuse, swearing, insults, and even the dice (or bags of dice) that get thrown at you in disgust as the whole plot sinks in...
Of course, it helps to have some experience as a GM, too. You get used to seeing your darling villains getting mutilated and set on fire or thrown into pits of despair, fed to demonic and diabolical things... Then crafting up a good PC to get horribly wrecked at some random point when the plot gets uncovered (occasionally accidentally and WAY too early to be really satisfying) isn't quite so hard to deal with. ;o)
Within the very first few minutes of the video you named at least 3 things that I have read or am very well interested in and I knew this was going to be a really entertaining video, and concept. Thank you so much for making such great videos! Your channel inspires me to create new ideas think new thoughts and I couldn’t be more grateful.
I was so not expecting this but it is a great video. You can also find what betrayal has done in the case of kreia or what most can know her as the lord of betrayal darth treya. Finding the monster you have created can change you forever for the better or consume you for the worst
My family abandoned me as an 8 year old I have accumulated a plethora of extremely traumatic experiences my entire life I literally had to walk through hell to get to where I am and with every horrible thing I didn't think I was going to make it through I managed to overcome with little effort which all those experiences help me obtain unshakable confidence self-respect and because I was on my own my whole life I have experienced so many different social situations good and bad deplorable and nice I've seen the deepest darkest parts of society and I've seen very uplifted parts of society and interacting with so many types of people it became very articulate and very good at reading people so after the only girl I ever trusted broke up with me after 10 years and two kids I was only crashed for a little while until I remembered who I am and that I'm not only a nice person but I have a monster that will push me through anything no matter how bad
Over the Garden Wall is my favorite cartoon of all time, because while it isn't really horror, it's the deception that tied everything up. And it was comforting.
Best thumbnail art you've had yet.
OH MY GOODNESS I AM *SO* MOTIVATED TO CONTINUE WRITING LORE FOR MY HORROR GAME! OH MY GOODNESS THIS VIDEO IS AMAZING
The strategy of narcissistic parents. My partners parents had a plan to degrade and gaslight him all throughout upbringing, not teach him how to do things of social necessity like financial or emotional intelligence or how to drive, so that they could have their gay son psychologically trapped in the home with them as a scapegoat to eventually become their live in caregiver when they reached that age, while their family line continued with his sister's children.
Its truly been a reality collapse for him to realize that the people he was supposed to be able to trust most wanted their son deluded. But that's a commonality in narcissistic people, especial malignant ones. They need a scapegoat into whom they can unload their shame about themselves that they arent' willing to face. The psychologists call it narcissistic supply
I'm actually working on a story in which I explore how someone who knows they are being deceived by someone they know is evil can still be lead astray by it anyway.
They are being contacted by a creature who they know is a demon, and this demon deceives by telling only the truth (the truth it wants the MC to hear.) And, the information the demon gives is all incredibly useful, and even life saving. Quite often, it is about matters that are very urgent and impossible to ignore as well. It's just that all of them are framed in such a way as to gently pull the MC astray little by little, and the MC never has a good recourse to take another path to their knowledge.
In this way, they are being gradually pulled off the path with full knowledge of what is happening, and despite their objections they are unable to avoid repeatedly compromising themselves by listening to the demon and doing as it intends.
This story sounds AMAZING! This needs to get made!
My favorite game of all time, used as an example by one of the channels I respect the most, on one of the most interesting videos I've watched. Truly insightful.
I do wish Tale Foundry would look at video games a little bit more. I think the perspective of actually being the protagonist as opposed to watching them opens up some really interesting possibilities for storytelling.
I swear y'all's videos pop up the exact moment i need them!!!!! My player character in one of my dnd games just realized that the only person he'd ever been able to trust has lied to him about so so much (Even having LITERALLY blocked his memories), and I was struggling to figure out how he'd respond to that moving forward. Remiel is no stranger to deception, so he feels foolish for not expecting this, but he's still beyond hurt. UGH thank you for making this video, I can't wait for next session now!
MY NAME IS HUNTER AND WHEN HE SAID “the church is lying to you, hunter” I NEARLY SHAT MYSELF
This video hit very close to home...
A few other stories I can think of would include:
The Good Place.
Monster Girl Quest
and Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood.
As GlaDos said: "Nice job breaking it, hero."
I mean, the more eldritch "truth" you obtain, the harder the game gets, lying to yourself can be the only way to protect yourself sometimes, but when you know it's a lie, that safety is now danger
My family lied to me. Spent two years isolating and distancing myself from "heathen friends" for a rapture and apocalypse that didnt come. Now they say it can come at any moment. I know better now. If an apocalypse doth do come, I'd rather be around people who accept me for who I am and can better me.
The one story I could think of the whole time - one filled with deception from the system, the community, even family - was Borrasca. To the point where I was shocked when it wasn't mentioned. It's a harrowing read but it showcases the real horror of lies perfectly
What I said but in one sentence: I have a character who had lost all her friends and family, and I in turn am more grateful for my own.
While watching this I kept thinking about a character I had created a long time ago, they lost the only people who were there for them for almost a whole year. None of them died but they all did go into a bad coma, it was fun to experiment how losing them would affect them. It was also quite sad, but also helped me be more grateful for the people I do have now.
I was going to skip the 10 second sponsor intro near the start of the video because I hate seeing even one second of an ad, but then I thought, 'but I like the guy being sponsored' so I watched the 10 seconds. And at the end you're like, 'it's nice to be sponsored by something I care about instead of a mobile game I've never played' and I was like, 'yup. I knew I respected this guy for a reason.'
Well well well. To ring in the spooky season, a channel I love is talking about the tricky and macabre storytelling of one of my favorite games of all time
Spec Ops: The Line isn't quite a horror game by the traditional standards, but using this discussion, it is even MORE closely a horror game.
Self-delusion can play a role in stories; in video games, it can be used to tell the story of a character in perspective who believes one version of events, but was hiding the truth from themselves.
Three great examples I can think of are the protagonists of Outlast 2, Omori, and Martha is Dead.
In Outlast 2, Blake has always believed that his first love and childhood friend, Jessica, commited suicide after Blake left her alone with the school priest, when in reality she was sexually assaulted by said priest and fell to her death; breaking her neck. Blake was manipulated into believing it was suicide as he was too scared of what the priest will say.
Martha is Dead and Omori are more extreme examples of Self-delusion in the form of mental illness caused by trauma. In Omori, Sunny and Basil lied about the death of Sunny's sister after she fell down the stairs during a fight she had with Sunny, and tried to cover it up by staging it as a suicide. The event created Omori, who acts as a dark force trying to dissuade him from the truth, and threatened him with suicide if he tries to confront it. Basil was also in danger of killing himself for his role in the incident as it becomes a darkness that eats away at him.
Martha is Dead isn't fully clear due to the need to interputed things on your own, but plays on split personality born from trauma. In it, Lydia thought she had a twin sister who her abusive mother favored more, and was drowned in the lake recently. She wanted to uncover the truth about her drowning while at the same time she pretended to be her twin to get the love she deserves. As she was confronting her mother about her sister's death, evidence shows that Lydia never have a twin sister: in fact Lydia is actually the unfavored psyche Martha created as a defense mechanicism against their abusive mother, as Martha was actually an only child. We can't be sure about that since this is all told from the surviving sister's perspective, meaning that we have to figure out what is real, and what was the girl's hallucination.
Great analysis as always, Tale Foundry. You give us a lot to think about in the mechanics of fiction and storytelling.
This is the first video from this channel and omg, I love the art style!
Bloodborne and Mandela Catalog in one video?!
You love to see it
Here is one of my recipes. Try to imagine what pain people feel when they get lied too by someone they trust, someone that guides them, imagine how you would react to learning that being nice is actually bad. In fact the most horid and hurtful thing one can do. What if all of my morals are fu*ked? What have I done that might have caused death? Distrust in guidance means complete distrust in self which leads to leaning back on guidance because it's all there has ever been for you. The only answer is the complete rejection of guidance and a fresh start in the world which could bring a lot of pain. Overcoming new fears is painful, which usually makes people stuck to their old ways.
I had a friend, she was great & we'd talk for days, we even said to Rachel other that we missed ourselves in the weekends (since her mother would take her phone away), but then suddenly she started getting mad at me, back to normal & she slowly stopped talking to me & I thought it was because of something I had done so I asked her but she didn't tell me exactly what it was, but one day she snapped & said that she didn't see me the same way anymore & that she didn't want to speak to me, that she never wanted to speak to me, since the start & she just did it apparently so that she didn't just leave me on read, I need to point out that she also started the conversation on Mondays as soon as she got her phone back, & then in the last days of school she kept saying that she cared a lot about me but at that point the friendship was over, it hurts a lot when they do that to you.
I think we can all feel this way, being gaslit by society etc to feel like we are crazy, lazy, or not trying hard enough when we fail in the system designed to oppress many in the first place.
I've read Ito's version of No longer human after watching this and, wow, that is a hell of a story, a hell of a mangá.
I was talking about narratives using Bloodborne's lore yesterday on my twitch, such a masterpiece
Realization of the truth is much scarier than a Lie.Realized that something you doing your whole life is meaningless,realized that The thing you gave Faith in is fake, realized that We are mere dust to universe and there's nothing special about us,or realization that we Will be forgotten
Interestingly enough, I thought of Hamlet during the video (Shakespeare's stage play, not film versions). Deception and lies are practically a part of the stage, cause the bare-bones stages meant you had to rely on the characters talking to understand what's going on. Course, there's more than just pall of lies, such as a subtle back-and-forth between Catholic and Protestant theology, or how there is hope that one can find the truth.
Honestly, whenever I find out someone lied to me, I stop believing that person. But that doesn't mean the next person has to also be a liar.
It's kind of interesting to me how most people think in categories like that, almost expecting everyone to be against them just because one or two people were.
This is brilliant, well done 👍
No Longer Human by Junji Ito is such a great read too, I’m glad you gave it some recognition.
When he started raising his voice I literally got scared 11:00
I love that you're expanding your story sources!
No Longer Human is my favorite manga by Junji Ito. No body horror, just the existential horror of one self.
All this talk of secrets and hidden monsters has gotten me in the mood for a John Le Carre video now. Smiley especially. Would be especially very to hear your view on how he takes stories like James Bond and drags them deep through the mud heap of real spy work.
I still remember the plot of Baten Kaitos cuz of the huge twist of act 3. I'll be vague, but in summary, the party notices the villains are always one step ahead of them, so clearly someone on the team is a mole. And each of them does have a connection to the villains, so its not hard to believe. But it still gets you when the truth comes out.
Peter Seller's Imperial Me from Rod Sterling's version of Dickens Christmas Carol is a fine example of a monster hiding in the plain sight
0:40 you can if chose to become the baby squid where you can then determine things for your self.
I am currently writing a long term project called today stars ( but I like to call it tov for memory reasons ) and I recently started going over the storys with my friends and realized just how detailed the world I made was, I wrote out wars and natural disasters, scientific advances that don't even affect the story, major accidents presidential election and even community's and fashion styles and cultures of different species. it really made me think of the world and just how much their is but also that the human mind has so much creativity and capacity that I can make up entire worlds of their own, it kind blew my mind
There's a lot of people who are talking about bloodborn, or about how this would affect their writing. I'm wondering why I'm not seeing many talk about those who feel this. Those who distrust authority, their caretakers, their lovers or those close to them, or any combination of those. Then again, maybe not many find that as personal as I do.