Fender Custom Shop Pickup Swap - And Why I Hate High Output Pickups!
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- I recently purchased a Fender Custom Shop 62 HSS guitar, I love the guitar but I cannot get on with the humbucker in the bridge position which is a Seymour Duncan JB. The Seymour Duncan JB is essentially a high output pickup measuring 16.4k. I used to own a couple of Suhr guitars with Thornbuckers and I loved everything about the tone of these pickups as they are low output measuring at 7.9k what I decided to do was to change the pickups and film the before and after the process.
To check the Suhr Thornbucker out on Reverb, click the link below.
reverb.com/uk/...
The Studio Rats are core band members Paul Drew on guitar/production/mixing, drummer James Ivey and Dan Hawkins on bass. They collaborate with singers and musicians to produce radio-ready songs.
Although I think this 'specific' opinion was well represented, I degress that Different guitars, players, amps, speakers, fx,etc will obviously be much kinder to the JB. As a player giving my personal opinion, there is NO pedal or amp, regardless of its amount of gain, that can replace the 'feel' of a pickup pushing the signal. Also, A 500k pot sounds better with a JB type pickup than does a 250k.
This is the exact video I was hoping to find. You articulated everything I always noticed about the JB that annoyed me. Excited to swap over to a Thornbucker!
This video represents everything I struggled with. In1996 I bought in Poland a second-hand Strat with the humbucker replaced by the former owner with high-output DiMarzio Tone Zone. Some years after, when I first played Les Paul, I fell in love with the brigtness and openness of the sound on high gain, compared to my Strat. I couldn't understand it. But I stopped playing in a nu metal band at one point, and since then I preferred jamming using only neck pickup (also replaced for single-size humbucker DiMarzio Fast Track 1, which was "singing", compared to the bridge one - amazing bluesy sound!). After seeing your vid, now I got the point, and decided to replace the muddy Tone Zone with something lighter, and see how my Strat should sound like on the bridge, after almost 30 years:)
I began the video thinking “what sort of crazy person would swap pickups in a custom shop” but I ended thinking “what a huge improvement for that custom shop.”
I put Seymour Duncan's on Fender Player Srat... JB on bridge, Jazz on neck... Amazing result! I also play with dimarzios on strat's, which are much darker, but superb for heavy metal on dist or some jazz on clean
Gear demos are best when people who know how to dial in a good tone and play something nice with it are doing it. Thanks for the upload. Because of you, I'm gonna order a custom set of HSS pickups for my Aria Pro II Fullerton.
The JB still sounded just fine but if you wanted something a little less output then the Seymore Duncan Custom Custom would've done the trick nicely! I thinks it's the best pickup ever made!
That's a good one and I like the 59 as well. I found the JB matches up with Seymour Classic Stack single coils really great. Love my JB but I also have a guitar the the Thornbucker and it's fantastic and paired that with Suhr 69+ singles. For either one just a few amp eq tweaks and they both are great.
This is weird! I have a JB Jr in my tele (neck position) and it doesn't behave like yours at all. Maybe the JR is slightly different, or maybe you had a bum pickup - it happens. Oh well, all well in the end.
Just got my first set of Thornbuckers, and I've got to say, I'm pretty impressed so far. Very dynamic and articulate. They split well too.
if Alex skolnik can use a slightly hotter than a jb Seymour Duncan set for both testament and his jazz trio maybe you could learn something from him. or also, lowering the volume/gain on the amp to compensate.
JB’s totally usable for high gain depending on what you’re going for but that Thornbucker matches sooo well with single coils
This is actually super helpful, because everyone raves about the JB so much, it's in soooooo many guitars, I probably would've ended up having a guitar with one in it eventually. But I totally agree, I don't like that cocked wah-never get enough clarity- sound. I'll opt for something else that's lower output.
There's a good reason why it's in soooooo many guitars.
Lower output doesn't equate to clarity. I have 17k pickups in my guitars and their clarity is excellent. It also goes without saying that there are lots of other guitar pickup manufacturers besides Seymour Duncan.
How bout the doug aldrich humbucker..what your thoughts??
I have been thinking about swapping the bridge pickup in my Strat (currently single coil) for a Duncan Custom Custom or JB. This video has certainly got me thinking. Loving the tone of that Suhr pickup!
I've found when you use a modeling amp it doesn't matter what pickup you have it all sounds the same. When you plug straight into a true tube amp with nothing else you can truly notice the difference in them
This video is a reminder to everyone of how awesome a good Les Paul is. Wow.
Wonder how Thornbucker compares to Shawbucker which is another PAF style humbucker in HSS strats. Thanks for the video btw!
I’m right there with you. I have a DiMarzio PAF Pro in one of my guitars, and a Duncan Slash in the other, and always seem to favor the tones of the Duncan. The added dynamic range just makes it so much better
PAF pro is 10k and this is not so hot pickup, but it is Alnico 5. Slash pickups are Alnico 2. Apples and oranges.
@@VanjaSpirin Not really. According to Dimarzio website PAF Pro is only 8.4K. I´ve got it in one of my guitars and it provides outstanding clarity. Crystal clear cleans and smooth distorted sounds. One of my all time favourite humbuckers.
Great video. I chose the JB for my H-S-S for the main reason that it splits well with the middle pickup. There's enough volume so that it matches when split.
Having said that, in general, medium output HBs are my go-to...usually PAF output types.
I love my Duncan JB. It's in the bridge position of a 1997 Anderson Cobra. Sounds awesome.
Great demo as always. Did you ditch the Kinmans? Thornbucker sounds great. Did you ever try a Duncan ‘59 in a strat? I quite like it.
Hi Paul. I’ve got a loaded pickguard with a Suhr SSV+ in the bridge position to replace a JB as well. 14-16k is way too high output to match the single coils on a Strat. As an alternative, I have another pickguard with a French boutique Alnico 2 humbucker. Close to PAF 7,6 K output which is very good too.
The JB is far too muffled for playing clean with dynamics. A good pickup for sure but the only match for a JB on a Strat is a ‘59 on the neck which makes an HH combo for hard rock/metal. My 2 cents… Great CS Strat btw 😉
This is such a good video in explaining how dynamics are changed with higher output pickups, thanks for that!
I agree I definitely got a lot out of this video
I rock a fat Strat myself and sealing out the humbucker bridge for this thornbucker bridge sounds like the move
You amp sounded digital… what was it?
Matchless Independence. If you look in the upper left corner of the screen, you can see it lit up.
HI great video 1 thing can i put thornbucker covered pickup to my strat? or is there any difference covered vs open? are they plug and play?
Wow, love the Thor bucket in the bridge. JB’s are traditionally really good. With that high of output, I believe you had the JB Trembucker in there, they do make a lesser output bridge JB. You would have had a different experience with the regular JB. However, the Suhr sounds amazing, I’ll be putting one in my Strat. Thank you!
Hi, isn’t black “hot” green & bare “earth” red & white blanked off?? On Thornbucker?? Thanks just fitting to jet js400
Hello, will this Suhr Thornbucker Bridge Pete Thorn Signature 53mm fit into my Fender Player HSS? What pickups are on your guitar in the middle and under the neck?❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
I've had the best luck with medium output pups like Duncan's Custom, Custom Custom, Custom 5, Full Shred, and Screamin' Demon. They have the right balance of output, bite and dynamics. High output pups like the Duncan JB, Distortion, or DiMarzio Super Distortion have too much going on and are less expressive.
Believe it or not, the more routing in the body and the more components in the bridge, the less warmth and dynamics that JB has. In other words, a Strat body is worse for it than a Gibson LP Jr routed for one pickup, (versus the chambered, dual hum body of a "standard"). Yes, this is annoying... but it's still reality.
JB's are just kind of overused in the wrong guitars. Duncan makes a LOT of awesome solutions. Also, a wicked way to get them to match better , if you play a relatively even amount of heavier or cleaner rock), is to pull a standard single coil and utilize the Duncan Poundcake.
I'm still searching for the "magic combo" for the guitars I'm building. Any advice, guitar folks?
Great sounds, I’ve just ordered a Jet 400 HSS after watching another of your videos and sent for a Thornbucker but now realise it says 50mm, Hope I’ve bought correct width ?? 😬??
What are the midle and neck pickup in this guitar?
His previous video says they’re hand wound 60s Custom Shop pickups, at the 7:46 mark
When you install a thornbuckers....which value tone pots are U using....250k or 500k?
what amp do you use?
What pots are you using. Im going to put a thornbucker + in with 2 single coils and i want to make sure i have the right pots.
hi, very good sound, but what are the single neck and middle pickups? the guitar sounds very balanced!
thanks for the reply..:)
I don't like the SD JB either. It can sound shrill in certain guitars. The EVH Wolfgang pickups sound the best.
Thanks for the great video! By no means am I to be rude but the pickup that really shins here is the Custom Bucker :)
Sounds like you were using 250k pot with the JB. There is NO way the JB sounds that dark.
If anything people find it too bright.
I have the JB in many many iterations and guitars.
They sound amazing with the volume all the way up and lower.
I always got and get dynamics from that pickup. So did millions of players that used one.
One of the most dynamic players who used the JB was Jeff Beck. And no JB does not stand for Jeff Beck.
I'm glad you didn't damage the guitar...
"NOOOOOO! I SCRATCHED IT!" 😎
I bought a Fender Ultra HSS about a year ago. While the humbucker pickup is not bad, it lacks clarity and depth. I might need to swap it out for one of these Thornbuckers
The comparison is pointless. The JB and the Thornbucker are different breeds. If you wanted lower output and more dynamics there are options aplenty in the SD range, including the Custom 5, Custom 2 or 59.
The Thornbucker is incredible and it suits this guitar better than the JB.
The JB always had an odd midrange hump. Ive exactly 6 hours in one out of 40 years. The whole reason I swapped my first pickup.
While the jb is a great pickup in its own right, it is definitely dated. I have a dimebucker in one of my guitars and it has similar characteristics with a scooped mid feeling. Great for metal, but not much else. That being said there are some high output pickups like the Nazgûl that are more mid focused and offer good clear. They still lack dynamics though.
I put a di marzio 36th set on my mij charvel so cal. So much better. 3D sound. The bridge sounds so much aggressive on my marshall dsl. Bye tone zone. No need for pedals.
JB antiquity allegedly gets rid of all that honk withoit articulation, havent tried it tho
Hi, Thornbucker is such a great pickup. What is the volume pot value you use?
250 or 500 k?
If you're playing with a medium to low gain amp, do you think those JB Duncans would work better? Thanks
Thanks. Maybe the thornbucker is the way to go. I did not know that higher the output would result in a loss of clarity. You the man.
I gave up on high output pickups years ago. I was using ceramic high gain pu’s but now Alnico 2 or 5’s with a dc resistance under 10k. Never go back
Wow, i’m surprised. I always thought JB’s were supposed to be bright pickups, especially with 500k pots. Maybe there was a fault with it and could be why the previous owner sold it?
They are tooo
Nasally and bright.
@@Utube-g3g lower it
Put Suhr SSH+ in my nash 60's strat, sounds wonderful. Better than a hot rails, DiMarzio rails.
Wow! Loved this video! So much more clarity out of the Thornbucker!
That thornbucker really has a lot more top end and dynamics. I wonder how the shawbucker 1 would stack up with it.
The JB is not a dull sounding pick up at all. From the other video, this guitar is all 250k pots? Thats prob the real culprit
Great lesson for ear and gear! Could you please tell through which amp or kemper, helix or else you play it?
Love Thornbuckers. I have a set of them in my Les Paul, low output Seymour Duncan’s in my HSS Ibanez AZ, and Dimarzio 36th PAF in my PRS. I prefer those lower output humbuckers as they mix better with single coils and P90s.
Thornbucker is Alnico 4 right? Al4 tames the midrange spike that Al5 gves, I like it a lot ;-)
Very similar sounds to evh pickups imo . Most people think high output but evh is lower gain and very responsive.
I bet you'd adore a Dimarzio 36th Anniversary PAF
The Air Classics are phenomenal for this too, even better imo
I went through about 20-24 pickups until I went with the PAF Pro.
@@afterstars for bridge and neck? Paf pro is very strange in some ways. Very bright. The cleans are unusually single coil like.
Isn't it supposed to be green/ground? With Black to the switch?
I like low output cuz they take drive effects way better than hi output, no jokes, way more articulate
Τry a Dimarzio Super Distortion or a Paf Pro in the fender and you will be suprised.
Dimarzios are always fatter and warmer than Duncans
hello, let me know (mybe I didn't hear ) what single coils do You use with this strato? thanx
It's not the gain It's the mid frequency difference between them
What are the measurements for you pickup height ? Your action height ?
Didnt want to damage guitar? Did i hear that right?
Are you using a 250k pot or 500k for the bridge? Sounds great
Iv got an ltd that plays superb. Hate the emgs. What would you put in it?
[4:21] Gibson SH5/TB5 Customs are the unsung magical pickup. I first came across them in 2002 when I was using the Seymour Duncan sound clips to chose the pickup for my Warmoth Guitar. Out of everything I heard, they were the best all-around pickup I heard. When I first fired up my Warmoth strat, I kinda thought "huh, this kinda reminds me of an artist who came out in 1978…"
My other guitar was a Kramer Pacer Deluxe with SD SSL-1 single coils in the neck and middle, and a JB in the bridge. The JB was OK, but I never gelled with it: depending on the amp, either it was dark, or more often than not, it had this weird thin sound on leads. The Custom had heavenly harmonics, yet had a thicker lead sound. Yes, it was a ceramic, so in the right context, it could kinda sound single-coilly, but nonetheless, it sounded thicker, yet hi-fi, compared to a JB. The SSL-1s were golden.
coda: Yes, I tried the Custom Custom and the Custom 5: they suck. Completely unbalanced pickups, IMHO (and nothing like EVH).
Cheers for the comment
To me it sounds like the Thornbucker has more " definition ".
What Pickups are in the bridge and middle? Thanks
Great video man. I’ve been wanting to try the PAF Pro by DiMarzio. They designed this pickup back in the 80s for this exact reason.
Thanks for the info!
Finally a pickup review that actually makes sense. Thank you so much for this! Ordering the pickup now.
Glad I could help
JB with modern wiring is sure high output pickup for metal mostly, but when using it with 50's wiring you can use it for everything because, when you turn your guitar vol and tone pots you can get many different tones, and get back the lost clarity too because 50's doesn't lose highs when you turn volume pot down. Then you can use parallel wiring with 50's same time if you have push- pull pot and get more tele like sound too. My opinion JB is the most versatile pickup out there. That Thornbucker is pretty sweet too!
JB is raw, dark and without complex harmonic structure. I use paf-s for metal, Toneriders, Donlis and Dimarzio. Much better sound and much better chug. Also, better all rounders.
what model are those single pickups?
What made you decide not to get a Gibson bridge pup?
What are the neck and middle pickups, did I miss that?
Great vid! Still it's hard to make a generalizing statement for all high output vs low output pickups. But I could definately heard that the low output was a lot brighter and agressive sounding and the high output was a lot smoother.
Exactly my response also...The Duncan was definitely smoother, very balanced growl to the distortion. The Suhr sounded bright and harsh. Of course you can make almost any sound you want out of a guitar with digital manipulation. Never truly know what a guitar sounds like unless you have it in your own hands.
What are pickups are the single coils in this?
Love the new sound! BTW what speakers are you playing through for these examples?
I gave a pair of Kii Three monitors
Here is a tip for any Tom Anderson owners, which usually have high output P/Us - Put the thornbuckers in those guitars and watch what happens. I did just that and it turned a really great guitar into an unbelievable guitar.
HA! I just emailed you about the great sound from this guitar now I know why. Looks like I'll be buying a Thornbucker. What do you suggest for the single coils in the neck and middle to go with that Thornbucker in the bridge?
An HSS Strat with a low-output humbucker and a set of quality alnico vintage style singles with a treble bleed kit can do it all. I agree completely and what a beautiful guitar!
Thornbucker sounded great, so are you using a TBX stacked pot for the volume? How is that wired up? Special wiring to enable the 500k pot for the humbucker ?
I didn´t expect this much of a difference! Thanks for letting us being a part of your experience!
It is different but is it a difference you want?
@@bluwng In this case I would have embraced it!
Did you go with the standard Thornbucker or Thornbucker +?
Standard
Dynamics 👍👍🎸🎸
I find some guitars suit a higher output pickup whereas others suit lower output. I love both. There is something special about a low output pickup being pushed to its limits.
The Thornbucker is a great pickup. I regret selling mine too
Are you using 250 or 500k pots? Been thinking about installing the fender dual pots
Disregard hadn’t gotten to that part of the video yet haha
I hated JB on any guitars I owned.
What is the volume & tone pot value you use?
Thank you for the video. Now I am even more convinced that my choice is JB 😃
There’s an obvious difference. I completely agree with your point, my 57 classic sounds godly for metal. However, the only pickup and as cliche as it sounds that just does it for me for High gain music is EMG81. It sounds phenomenal for the heavier stuff. Now the problem I have is I don’t like any of the EMG active pickups for the neck position. My ideal metal guitar would have an EMG81 in the bridge and a 57 classic like PAF in the neck. Unfortunately, can’t get that to work.
Just literally changed my mind about high outputs pickups in a quick video. After 35 years you changed my mind in under 5 minutes. I’m changing all my humbuckers now. Thank you. Never stop learning. Is this basically the same theory with all humbuckers? Lower more clarity higher less clarity? Another question I have is. Would the more “ clear “ treble get washed out in the mix? Especially live. Since it seems like it’s kind of sitting in the same frequency as a hi-hat and symbols? Not sure but, that ThornBucker sounds absolutely perfect with whatever you’re running it through. Which I’d also love to know exactly what your setup is for this video and EQ levels. I also think Pete is one of the best rock players around and wouldn’t mind supporting a brand he’s connected to. And as usual, you’re playing is incredible and this is literally 1 of my all time favorite videos about gear on UA-cam to date. Been dying for a comparison of these to pups.
That Thornbucker sounds EPIC, definitely an improvement over the JB.
not really the JB sounds good enough already
crazy I'm siting here jamming my guitar with jb, all my guitars have the jb AND I been lookin at the thorn bucker
@@KUM0people getting easily influenced by others. Low output pickups frustrate me they don’t have the energy you need when you need it. I’d rather control output with my vol knob. Be your own man this universe has enough sheep that’s what I say. This guy like the TB cool but I prefer a JB.
A huge tone improvement 😮
I just ordered one of these for a Parts caster I built. Hopefully it sounds good with a Northern Ash body.
It has HS (no middle pick up) Vintage Trem, beautiful rootbeer stain, with about 11 coats of clear, but on a Northern Ash Frankie Body black tortoise pickguard, EVH 78 style head stock , flame maple, blue abalone dots, Neck, Tusq nut, Gotoh Locking Tuners, Wolfgang style truss adjustment.
It has Motorcity Woodward 3 Strat neck pickup which is just an amazing pickup if you like Jimi and SRV (It has an A3 magnet).
It’s a concept guitar I call SRVH.. Very close to the Van Halen 1st Album black and white spec, but without the stripes, and a a great neck Strat pickup.
Initially it was to show that some of my Amp builds could get the Brown Sound tone back when I used build, mod, and restore amps. but I like a versatile guitar.
Plus I would feel self conscious playing the Striped guitar or the SRV signature.
Finding the perfect humbucker has been a PITA!!
I have changed more humbuckers in this guitar than some change their underwear.
I recently pulled out an old MityMite1400 and put in a SUHR Modern+… It was way too high gain.
I use a very similar spec as this Pete Thorn pickup on my 1976 Destroyer and R8 custom shop. Both have the Blue Sky Set by Sheptone which are also A4/8.4k on the bridge.
I found a black bridge 53mm Thornbucker for $129 shipped.
So what the heck. You and Pete are probably my favorite Demo guys.
Can’t wait to try it! Hopefully this will
Sound good with this guitar.
I was about to say this dude has no clue when it comes to pickups, then he started playing…
This dude can play some tasty ass licks!
Putting the Duncan Seymour JB in the bridge of a strat is a very common upgrade….i think it’s because home noodlers who have just one guitar can do the the high gain Gibson thing by flipping a switch. But if you’re looking for a cohesive sound it’s not a good fit. Great video, and much respect for your playing ability.
It’s funny that everything you don’t like about the jb is everything l love about it. To each his own. Lol Great video, great playing.
Right there with you. The Thornbucker sounds clearer but also thinner, and to me, it lacks personality. It's a gainy PAF, like everything else on the market.
Dynamic humbuckers sound great on LPs but I like the extra compression on a Strat/Soloist. If I want less, I turn down the volume. Not sure why people have such a hard time finding the knobs.
@@revolead exactly! We Got knobs on the guitar, knobs on the amp, knobs on the pedals….none of them will give you more output or dynamic.
I decided to build an HH strat with a jb on the bridge and one on the neck! Looks like uncharted territory, everyone pairs jb with a 59 or similar, l couldn’t even found 1 video on UA-cam for two jb…l have to see why! 😉
You are right. PAF pickups are better for any kind of music incuding metal, because 16k-ish pickups are always mushy, dark and without complex harmonic structure. The only exception is Dimarzio Super Distortion. It's a gem, used with non metal players, as Lucather or Metheney.