Tommy Nguyen: Woke Culture HAS Gone Too Far - 5/8 | Oxford Union
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
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Initially used as a term to empower awareness of systemic inequalities in society, wokeism is now a deeply divisive term. The media's perpetuation of woke culture has made this term a buzzword. For some, being woke is part of the antidote of acknowledging the instruments of oppression. For others, it is a dangerously absolutist ideology, a sort of reverse McCarthyism, corroding liberal society and encouraging self-imposed victimhood. Is the 'war on woke' a legitimate phenomenon, or a reactionary distraction from the real problems being 'woke' addresses?
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If we all had this young man’s ability to organise and articulate his thoughts, as well as his belief in humanism and democracy, then our society would flourish.
the most dangerous belief in human history is ironically - humanism.
you're not wrong. I'm probably more than twice his age and he can really lay it down - impressive
Ya but America is too busy calling cursive and the ability to do math racist. lol
indeed.
Humanism and democracy doesnt guarantee progress . Just learn and center the society around learning and progression democratic or not
Good lord !. Imagine what this guy will be like in a few years. He is really impressive.
Sorry but this is some of the most ignorant shit I have ever heard and I mean ignorant in that he ignores basic reality. He's *IGNORING* that he's describing and criticising *EVERY* socio-political ideology when they go too far.
If you took this speech and replaced the words woke and wokeism with conservative & conservatism or left & leftism or right & rightism or *ANY OTHER* socio-political ideology its exactly the same speech. This is 9 minutes and 12 seconds of political clichéd *BULLSHlT* that could easily describe every political movement in history.
For a couple of people who think this kid has a bright future look at the recently elected American George Santos who has lied about everything in his life. He won the election doing *EXACTLY* what Tommy Nguyen has done here *take the standard tribal political line and tell it to a willing audience.*
What the real debate should be _"This House Believes Political Tribalism Has Gone Too Far"_
He'll be back in china with his falon gong cultists...
What a bright young man. As an immigrant, I can empathise with him. We must fight those who are offended vicariously, those who want to be offended on our behalf, those who do not want to talk TO us but FOR us. Woke Culture does weaponize Identity. Reducing people to their skin colour, gender, sexual orientation etc... is not a mark of respect but predicated on virtue signalling and self aggrandisement. It is, in fact, the essence of what we might call Neoracism.
Well said. Couldn't agree more. However I'm pessimistic that anything can be done to check the power of woke ideology as it is now deeply embedded within all the major institutions of society; most notably of course in universities, but also in the mainstream media, education, the police force, and most of the big private companies. And of course parliament itself mouths the platitudes of woke culture. After all, it is simply a more aggressive, more totalitarian version of Political Correctness, which itself introduced the dogma that certain words couldn't be used, certain ideas couldn't be discussed, certain opinions couldn't be expressed. All of the main political parties are under the sway of woke assumptions to some degree, with just a handful of backbench Tory MPs willing to go against the group-think. I hope I'm wrong in my pessimism, but I doubt it.
@@lausanne67 You are far from wrong sadly. And might we agree your said pessimism is rather a realism.
Isn't that what Hitler and the Nazis did, categorizing and discriminating based on skin color, religion, geneology, etc?
I don't empathize with anybody who saw a good thing in the BLM movement. I see naivete.
Woke culture certainly has a patronising & dehumanising aspect to it when it comes to "minorities" with the wrong opinions. But fundamentally it is a war against the native peoples of the west and their inherited traditions. Focusing the critique of wokeness from the standpoint of minorities who disagree with it in some sense plays into the woke paradigm because it is still agreeing to the idea that minority voices are legitimate simply because they are minorities. The overarching counternarrative to wokism should actually be one of majority rights and the wisdom of inherited traditions - many of which are deeply natural. The idea of men and women is natural and right. It is a given. As is the idea that ethnic groups evolve in different parts of the world. The idea of England being white is natural and right. And the decolonisation movement, when directed against the native people of Europe is evil. Wokeness is first and foremost a rage against reality.
This young fella has a brilliant future in front of him 🫡
Sorry but this is some of the most ignorant shit I have ever heard and I mean ignorant in that he ignores basic reality. He's *IGNORING* that he's describing and criticising *EVERY* socio-political ideology when they go too far.
If you took this speech and replaced the words woke and wokeism with conservative & conservatism or left & leftism or right & rightism or *ANY OTHER* socio-political ideology its exactly the same speech. This is 9 minutes and 12 seconds of political clichéd *BULLSHlT* that could easily describe every political movement in history.
For a couple of people who think this kid has a bright future look at the recently elected American George Santos who has lied about everything in his life. He won the election doing *EXACTLY* what Tommy Nguyen has done here *take the standard tribal political line and tell it to a willing audience.*
What the real debate should be _"This House Believes Political Tribalism Has Gone Too Far"_
Very well said young man. You have a bright future
Sorry but this is some of the most ignorant shit I have ever heard and I mean ignorant in that he ignores basic reality. He's *IGNORING* that he's describing and criticising *EVERY* socio-political ideology when they go too far.
If you took this speech and replaced the words woke and wokeism with conservative & conservatism or left & leftism or right & rightism or *ANY OTHER* socio-political ideology its exactly the same speech. This is 9 minutes and 12 seconds of political clichéd *BULLSHlT* that could easily describe every political movement in history.
For a couple of people who think this kid has a bright future look at the recently elected American George Santos who has lied about everything in his life. He won the election doing *EXACTLY* what Tommy Nguyen has done here *take the standard tribal political line and tell it to a willing audience.*
What the real debate should be _"This House Believes Political Tribalism Has Gone Too Far"_
Woke culture is like complaining without thinking.
Wow this is the best explanation I've heard 👏
@@kopite998 Agreed!!
I believe Dr. Lindsay explained this at some point (not in this debate but on his channel). It seems being critical just to be critical isn’t very helpful to changing things in any direction.
Still putting all this information altogether myself.
Really highlights that it's not a behaviour unique to one side of the political spectrum, but one common to the excessively tribal on either extreme. Blind dogma and demanding of allegiance is the actual problem.
The debater notes that attempting to redefine words is Orwellian, highlighting the redefining "woke" as a pejorative term is also Orwellian.
@@user-gf6gf2iy2k It is a memetic behaviour that people are afraid to question because they are afraid to be rejected by their peers or friends.It is like a dogma as you said.
So well articulated
Too well articulated
Absolutely brilliant. You Sir, have a future! Stay brave and life will be interesting.
I presume those are all-inclusive, all-encompassing, diverse people leaving the debate because their feelings have been hurt by facts.
Best argument in the debate. Hit the fundamentals, do not engage emotional claims. 👍
Sorry but this is some of the most ignorant shit I have ever heard and I mean ignorant in that he ignores basic reality. He's *IGNORING* that he's describing and criticising *EVERY* socio-political ideology when they go too far.
If you took this speech and replaced the words woke and wokeism with conservative & conservatism or left & leftism or right & rightism or *ANY OTHER* socio-political ideology its exactly the same speech. This is 9 minutes and 12 seconds of political clichéd *BULLSHlT* that could easily describe every political movement in history.
For a couple of people who think this kid has a bright future look at the recently elected American George Santos who has lied about everything in his life. He won the election doing *EXACTLY* what Tommy Nguyen has done here *take the standard tribal political line and tell it to a willing audience.*
What the real debate should be _"This House Believes Political Tribalism Has Gone Too Far"_
He said he grew up in a communist regime didn’t he? They know where it leads. Weird how they worship Marx, who was a racist bigot. Do they realise it was all tribal? Jewish Bolsheviks vs Christians? Native French peasants against their foreign overlords? That the British aristocracy treated the peasants as serfs? They need to read more history than just the basics if they’re gonna get into political activism.
@@frosksdeadteeth5163 Not certain what you're specifically trying to point out because your comment flips back and forth between fact and contradiction.
Or is that what you are trying to show because I found ALL of the 8 speakers to contradict themselves or go wildly off topic at times. Why did Konstantin Kisin rant on about climate change, when that has zip to do with wokeism?
I totally agree with your last line that they need to read a lot more history. I'm Australian in my 50s (early Gen-X) and in high school we all did 4 years of history classes that went from Ancient Egypt through Sumerian, Greek, Roman and British history all the way to modern Australia. So I learned that events are affected by preceding events and that historical events have context. That's not done anymore and I see Millennials and Zoomers with almost no ability to put things into historical context and when they do try its often a face palm moment.
This whole debate seemed riddled with bad context even though a couple did try.
@@tonywilson4713 Not sure climate scientists would agree there's no wokeism in their field. Also you could say companies pretending they care about the environment is a form of wokeism.
Yes he's very academic 👍
Thank you, young man ,your parents taught you the good from the bad. Thank them. Please keep up the good fight.🙏
He will make a fantastic politician, clear, concise and knowledgeable
Sorry but this is some of the most ignorant shit I have ever heard and I mean ignorant in that he ignores basic reality. He's *IGNORING* that he's describing and criticising *EVERY* socio-political ideology when they go too far.
If you took this speech and replaced the words woke and wokeism with conservative & conservatism or left & leftism or right & rightism or *ANY OTHER* socio-political ideology its exactly the same speech. This is 9 minutes and 12 seconds of political clichéd *BULLSHlT* that could easily describe every political movement in history.
For a couple of people who think this kid has a bright future look at the recently elected American George Santos who has lied about everything in his life. He won the election doing *EXACTLY* what Tommy Nguyen has done here *take the standard tribal political line and tell it to a willing audience.*
What the real debate should be _"This House Believes Political Tribalism Has Gone Too Far"_
Wonderfully laid out, powerful examples.
Grand stuff from this young man
Vietnamese guy knows what it's like to live under similar doctrines.
He's only an undergraduate! There is hope in the UK.
The most impressive thing about this whole forum is that there were no mobs of woke incels with colored hair storming in and chanting "RACIIIIST!!!"
They only send the rowdy shock troops in against the working class. These people have the resources to pursue legal actions for any unsubstantiated allegations against their good character.
The woke incels were off protesting against BudLight and denouncing Fox news for impurity of viewpoint, in favour of Newsmax / OAN that remain acceptable.
Oh Tommy!! You are brilliant and spot on. You addressed the issue best. EXCELLENT !!!! Thanks..
I'd be so proud of him if he was my son.
Brilliantly articulated. Bravo!
Very strong speech and bang on
Woke Culture happens when we prioritise ideals instead over values.
Interesting. Could one argue that they are the same thing, though?
@@ytsm Similar but not the same, and it's the prioritising that creates the malice. Values are very much fixed in what can be obtained within our reality, not so ideals they can go above and beyond.
@@ytsm Of course they're not the same thing. Idealism is what you want to be real; it is devoid of the reality of the world. Values are what has been shown to be beneficial to a people through many generations of trial and error; it's a standard of behaviour that is enforced.
Woke ist a Putin's world 🤗
food for thought
Finally, a university starting to really see the reality. About time.
Well said. The hiring one for me is interesting. I don’t believe we should be forced to hire anyone other than the best person for the job and, depending on the industry and skills, that may not meet same balance as that in society. Not having enough XYZ people in the company doesn’t mean we’re all bigots or racists. It’s silly.
nah theyre LGBTQIA2+2IS4-1DATS3QUICKMATHS people
Wokeism is at it's core the infantile need for self-inflating moral supremacy. These speakers all make the mistake of assuming that "Woke" is a coherent philosophy with a consistent moral core and, ironically, each speaker gives tangible evidence that there is no coherence or consistency in "Wokeness". The speakers fail to recognize that "Wokesters" are simply narcissistic, arrested-development two-year olds with decades of experience. This is not a slander, it is a critical observation of Woke performance.
The most effective way to deal with a Woke demonstration invokes the same tactics as dealing with a fit-throwing two year old. You ostracize them. Don't argue because critical thought is beyond them. Don't penalize or commit violence against them because that will legitimize them, to themselves at least, but possibly also to society at large.
It has been noted by child psychologists and sociologists that two-year olds are eventually socialized out of their narcissm by the other children in their cohort. When the other children refuse to play or engage with them because of their self-absorbed behavior, the child modifies their behavior to become more socially acceptable. This is what needs to happen with the Woke. The Woke need to be ostracized from the public square in such a way that they understand that they will not be allowed back into public debate until they start acting in a way that does not personally attack those with whom they disagree. In other words, like mature adults
Bravo!
I stopped calling myself an ally of theirs around 2017 because I realized most of the negativity directed at me was coming from them, not whoever they were fighting at that time. I was on their side, but in their zeal, they couldn't allow anyone who wasn't committed 100%. The honey of the other side didn't attract me. It was the vinegar of my own that repelled me.
I felt so much catharsis while watching this. This guy vented all of my frustrations in such a comprehensive and articulate way. These ideas have destroyed the intellectual culture where I live, and you cannot criticize it without being shouted down. This movement has poisoned the worldview of a generation and we need to stop this hostile tribalism that is degrading western culture.
I've just watched 5 of those in a row yet i do not get any recommendations from this channel.
,,Interresting"
What an impressive young man.
I love how he said “wokeism in its current form” like I said in a previous video if wokeism kept its original meaning instead of ppl turning it into something else this wouldn’t be a debate. Either way he made some pretty good points. 7:33
It's original meaning was "Awakening to the fact that the US is a white supremacist country" or, as per the Black Twitter version, "now i be woke AND lit!".
It was bullshit then just as it's bullshit now that every other progressive faction has seized upon, and expanded, it to include whatever nonsense they're bitching about in {Current Year}.
It appears that hope is not entirely lost on the youth - thank heavens for critical thought and thank heavens for people like Tommy for speaking up against the threat of future 'cancellation'
Very well said.
Well said! 👍
“DIVISIVE & TOXIC.” So true yet so sad.
dude said he grew up in a communist country lol ... if im not mistaken this guy is the son of a Vietnamese billionaire lady that owns an airline. And judging by his accent-free English, im willing to bet he spent most of his life outside of Vietnam.
i agree he is the son of billionaire, but he grew up in vietnam when he was 15 or 16 he studied abroad in uk.
Wow I never knew that
No wonder he was reading from a script rather than speaking passionately from the heart with an occasional glance down at his notes
Well said! This kid is going places!
Brilliant young brain: well and beautifully done
Nice to see a young person showing some original thoughts. Some errors like ...spreading to educational institutions... which i would replace by ...spread by educational institutions... since i can't think of any moronic idea for which the spreading part was not done long time ago.
Thank you for sharing this talk! This gentleman makes a crucial point especially between 3:06 and 4:15!
Thank you!
My argument against individual indentity is that there are too many pronouns too remember and too many people to offend. I pass.
Lol
Its more like "everyone has problems, i dont care what type of pokemon you think you are, not enough to remember the PrOnOuNs"
Woke went too far as soon as intersectionality was born. Which is precisely when modern wokery was created.
I like this guy, and I respect the strength of his arguments. But trying to extend the olive branch to the woke is a mistake. It is walking into the trap that has been set for you. It is based on the false premise that they have any interest in arguing in good faith. They do not. Give them nothing.
This one was like an ice pack for the brain after listening to the instagram "models" ramblings.
Yep. I do not know what more to say, excellent reasoning.
He’s nervous and trying to talk too fast, but he’s brilliant. People that escape Communism and poverty are much more grateful for our freedoms.
Came to the US from China with my parents, always ticked me off a little when Americans acts entitled and don't realize how good they had it while inaccurately dehumanizing chinese people in media and such. China isn't good, but it's for different reasons than ones they often bring up. Woke culture is the embodiment of pretending to be a victim and complaining without understanding while virtue signaling and taking moral high ground.
These guy is amazing.
Well done!
Well said!
The latter part of his speech, about weaponizing identity is exactly the problem. It is the root of both wokism and old style racism.
Great points made well🎉
My bros have got a lot invested in this!!!
Really excellent.
Good job young man!! I am Asian American as well
Good job young man!! I too have two legs, two arms, a nose, two eyes, two ears, and a mouth
He's British though?
@@Communist-Doge
Says he grew up under a Communist regime, which I don't think people yet have called British rule. And his accent is American.
@@castelodeossos3947pretty sure he's talking about Vietnam.
@@AQueenOfTheStoneAge
Considering his surname is Vietnamese, dare say your assumption is correct. Not arguing, but your point is?
'I do apologise though however...'.
The few blunders of a non-native speaker of English do not diminish this gentleman's argument.
Simply fantastic. from a fellow British Viet.
Now these are how debates should be run!!!
Bravo, young man!
He seems to be saying “Wokeism” is the result of 25 years of post-modernist philosophy ?
Post-modernism is well known to criticize Western institutions and liberalism. (Kuznar 2008:78)
1 It questions reality and representation (it's all “fake news”),
2- It isolates text and language as the central “phenomena” of existence, (making social media, archived documents as the battlegrounds)
3- It applies literary analysis to all “phenomena” (words and images are the weapons.).
4- It criticizes “metanarratives” by counter-storytelling. (all history, literature, religion is wrong/biased) promoting “progressive nihilism”. For example "Gender is a construct"
5- It over focuses on “power” relations and “hegemony”, (regularly rebranded as “structuralism”, “post structuralism” etc.)
6- It argues against method and evaluation (anti- science) eg- potions trump vaccines. (pun intended)
For example postmodernism promotes qualitative analysis (opinions and feelings) over quantitative analysis (votes)
Very good.
Brilliant
Based on the amount of 👍 im guessing it may not be as bad in England. It’s very bad here in the US
We copy the USA and continually bemuse ourselves in so doing.
We will see this guy again.
Nailed it. Share this everywhere
Everything he said was spot on. I do wish however wish that he would slow his speech down instead of racing through it. I realise there's a time limit, but when someone rambles at high speed it's like trying to read the tail number on a fighter jet that's flying past your head at supersonic speed.
How many of the audience took the yes door?
The slim majority
Unique representation of ideation indeed.
Amazing! Well reasoned argument, addresses every point truthfully and sharply, while having pointed out from the beginning how both sides of the political spectrum weaponize this term. Hope in the new generation still alive!
Brilliantly written, but he needs to work on delivery. Stop reading. Engage more. I mean this constructively as this world needs more young men like Mr. Nguyen.
Oh Tommy, please shed those white socks when wearing your elegant shirt , jacket and tie. You a quite an intelligent young man.
The UK would do well to ignore American imported "problem's"
excellent work and reasoning
Really highlights that it's not a behaviour unique to one side of the political spectrum, but one common to the excessively tribal on either extreme. Blind dogma and demanding of allegiance is the actual problem.
The debater notes that attempting to redefine words is Orwellian, highlighting the redefining "woke" as a pejorative term is also Orwellian.
Perfectly stated! Bravo!!
The 'reading' from the paper makes this a lot less powerful
You will have a great future.
It's so nice knowing that Oxford is against wokeism❤️❤️❤️
Nicely done Tommy.
A very well laid out and cohesive argument (though possibly reconsider the white socks decision).
One side presents arguments. The other side presents word salad.
Well said.
Some great points.
Oh, I miss scientific consensus and reasoned debate. North Americans trust the science unless dogma supersedes.
Why is scientific consensus valid for global warming and pandemics but not medical intervention and legal status regarding people with gender dysphoria? Rather than changing minds, bullying or censure coerces conformity or silence especially in agreeable personalities.
No decent person wants to see another suffer. I do not know how to resolve the tension of a person at odds with their own body and scared of their safety in society where they can be perceived as abnormal. It is an important problem to address. But turning allies into enemies because one can’t change their mind without debate or scientific consensus on an issue as fundamental as biology and reproduction is extremely short sided. The violent TRAs online are as bad as anyone who doxes, threatens or uses hate speech against their enemies.
Hope and optimism are hard to come by until I put down my device and go outside into nature. 💜 Yesterday I saw 14 seals at once! We stared at each other until they went back to feeding, splashing and making strange sounds.
Why does nobody who grey up in communism have anything good to say about it?
Getting down to core definitions, one has to wonder if those who claim to be "woke," or are accused of being "woke," - really are.
Preach young man!
The current state of intellectual discourse is lamentable. The rise of irrational identity politics and tribalism, which has been cultivated by the corporate media since 2008, has distracted people from the ever-widening wealth inequality in society. This has resulted in the disappearance of the middle class and the demonization of the average worker, who is now considered evil simply because they are white and male. The capitalists have disguised themselves as neo-leftists in order to maintain their Übermann status, while the real leftist ideology of the early 20th century, which once sought to uplift the working class and create a truly free and equal society for all, has been expelled and marginalized in the most vicious way.
The inevitable economic crisis that is to come will only further demonstrate the consequences of this pseudo-leftist ideology. As the society descends into instability, the supposed left-wing will become a scapegoat for the crisis as soon as their corporate media overlords abandoned them, while the capitalists enjoy their mansions and yachts even if the right wing populists took over. But, If there is hope, it lies in the proles. The working class, regardless of their race, religion or any other identity they invented to divide us, share a common fate, and the capitalists and elites of Wall Street seek to exploit us unto death.
Therefore, it is imperative that we reject this pseudo-leftist ideology and embrace the true leftist principles that aim to empower the working class and reduce wealth inequality. We must remember that the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles, not gender identity war but class war. The workers of all races and nations must stand together in their shared struggle against the capitalists, who seek to drink our blood and that of our children... March in the workers' 𝗨𝗻𝗶𝘁𝗲𝗱 front, for you are a worker too.
𝐷𝑒𝑒𝑝 𝑖𝑛 𝑚𝑦 ℎ𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑡, 𝐼 𝑑𝑜 𝑏𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑣𝑒,
𝑊𝑒 𝑠ℎ𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑒, 𝑠𝑜𝑚𝑒 𝑑𝑎𝑦.
7:14 In case someone is wondering what was mentioned here: the massacre of Srebrenica (pronounced [srebrenitsa]) in the 1990's.
100% agree
At Oxford making a speech equals reading from a paper.
But you still studied in the UK.
You do indeed control your privilege. But to do that you must first recognize it for what it is, and I don't think you are able to.
seeing the like and dislike ratio between the pro-woke side's videos vs the woke has gone too far side's videos is awesome...
Intelligent young man.
Hang on, these guys debate by reading out pre-written monologues? I was in a debating club, and sure I had notes, bullet points to remind me of my points, but at no point would you ever just read out an essay.
I’m just wondering Jasmin: Would you rather be living in a grass skirt in Central Africa, hunting for monkeys and yams for a living or would you rather live in Western society which listens to your denigration respectfully whilst at the same time provides you with luxury clothes and absurd high-heel boots?
Woke was a concept used in hip hop lyrics in the late 90 it is supposed to mean you know what the actual reality of what is going on not that you believe in ever changing illogical wants and wishes.
Very interesting but it would be better as an article. Speeches should make their points more simply.
To all:
Debating is NOT reading.
oxford is also very much woke to the degree that this wokeness sometimes overflows and gets to the community-wide mailing lists for various research fields... it is from such emails that I found out about special woke guidelines implemented at oxford for various activities...