CYC Photon Ebike Motor - Stiff Bearings and Stuck Chainring
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- This is an update on the issue with my stiff bearing on the CYC Photon. Looks like it is a machining tolerance issue. At least that's what it looks like to me. Pretty easy fix although I think that just by design it will never be as smooth as a regular bottom bracket. I am also struggling to get the damn chainring off so any tricks and advice there is welcome. Cheers.
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The more I see the teardown of the CYC the more i am concerned. CYC from what i have seen haven't responded to any of the concerns (e.g., serviceability , drag etc). This is a premium priced motor i would expect better design from, and from there marketing i was keen to purchase it but decided to see if real life lived up to thr marketing. Hopefully the Toseven DM02 is better. Thanks for your excellent videos.
Thanks for the comment. The 02 should be back on the bike soon. There are some annoying design choices on the CYC. The torque sensor is really good.
1. Months ago I researched mid-mount motors and concluded my first should be from CYC. Every video I saw back in the day impressed me greatly. I've taken no action since then, but would like to soon.
2. I may be an "edge case" kind of rider. My objective is to move on my own power most of the time and rely on the motor exceptionally (on very long rides, over especially demanding terrain). This implies my motor bearings must be no less good than those that came with the bike (candidates being a Surly Pugsley and a Fuji Bighorn). In 58 years on wheels, I have NEVER encountered what you describe and I won't tolerate feeling such friction, period.
3. CYC should express gratitude to you for your analysis. You can tell them that if I am representative of cycling "fanatics," CYC had better develop a permanent and elegant fix for both problems you cite. As for customers who have already purchased friction-prone motors, perhaps a simple, low-cost fix can be shipped from the factory gratis. Spacers seem like good candidates for such a retrofit.
Appreciate the comment. There are new motors I am testing from a company called TOSEVEN that might be worth looking at. The one design does not move the motor gear when you are peddling without power which would reduce resistance considerably in an ebike in the scenario you described. It's off the bike right now but I will do a bit of riding sans power once it's back on and you can get an idea if it would make a difference.
@@HighVoltageKits I will study TOSEVEN in the meantime and keenly await the results of your testing.
I hate to inform you, but you are going to find friction or resistance in every mid-drive motor that I've tried. In this regard, the best I've seen is the Brose motor in a Specialized Turbo Vado SL.
@@larrym2434 Although your news is sad, I appreciate the input. Mr HighVoltageKits says he's going to check the TOSEVEN products for their drag. Brose is a name of which I was unaware. More for me to research.
@@larrym2434 Test rode that in 2022 guise, the Brose motor in the Turbo Vado I tried was so annoyingly loud, even on the flats, that I promptly returned it to the LBS without even attempting the hill section they suggested. The lag was also not something to be tolerated on a machine at the top of range.
Photon technical support sent me a picture of how to remove their cover using the crank arm attached to the spindle as the second lever together with their tool. Place them near one another (like at four and 6 o’clock) and squeeze together. I’d show you the pic, but UA-cam doesn’t allow it. It worked for me.
Okay. That makes some sense. I will give it a crack on the next install I do.
CYC now offers a proper tool, a 5-pins adapter for a socket set, for removing the chainring. I ordered one with a chainring and it works fine with a chain whip.
Yeah. I still think it should not be an optional extra though.
Another informative video.
Classic tolerance stack up...as you rightly address. This is a rudiment of every design that occurs in the design development phase. Typically, in prototype, worse case tolerance stack is emulated with specially fabricated parts to simulate the entire manufacturing tolerance.
Worse case in nature is rare statistically but when it occurs, there can be an issue. This is what separates designs. More robust designs are less sensitive to manufacturing variation.
To me, this in inexcusable. I come from this world. Cartridge bearings are made to tight tolerances. So this is a design flaw. There should be no compensatory work around when building the bike. Lowered torque in assembly to reduce interference will reduce retention for example.
Because everything is drawn on CAD via computer today and can be 3D modeled and 3D printed for tolerance checks there is no reason for this mis-step.
As to disassembly with that tool....if you have a local bicycle shop and its a large shop, there is generally one strong man there. One guy can hold the body and other spin that tool.
Staccato force always breaks things loose easier than dull force as it turns out. I had a stuck pedal on a bike I couldn't get apart and I build all my bikes and there was a strong man that could remove it. This guy had serious strength.
What I would do in your case John, is contact CYC and perhaps send them this video. Let them come back to you and explain what their path is forward to fix their design...and maybe send you a resized motor to test. You could also ask them how to get the thing apart...if they have any suggestions.
This is critical info for the ebike community and thanks for all you do to enlighten us.
Thanks for the comment and advice Luke. I posted the video on the CYC group so maybe they will respond. You are right in that it's surprising it was not identified. I suspect that these smaller parts get missed out sometimes. Apparently there is a trick with the tool but I will find someone with Gorilla arms as well 😆 CYC told me this was in development for three years. It's possible that the tolerance error was only introduced at mass manufacturing point? A miscalculated machine maybe? Cheers
The one thing you are definitely doing wrong in disassembling the chanering is where you're placing the tools for leverage. Move the cyc tool as close as possible to the wip so you're able to pull the cycle tool and push the whip at the same time.
@@HighVoltageKits CYC doesn't even need to redesign the cups. A couple of shims would take care of this, easily. BTW, Am very interested to hear more about the ToSeven motors.
Thank you for your thorough reviews!
I love to know of CYCs comment on the bearing preload issue. I think that that tool should span between 3 holes which might make it slightly better. CYC should provide a bench mountable 5 pin jig.
Yeah. I mean I think its not the load but the design. I hope the tools they send to dealers are like you describe.
I have a stealth
I have been following these guys for years . They were part of GNG electric motor
The stealth was the one that finally got to a point of refinement that I was looking for.
You can also modify it by changing the outside plates to fit into most frames front triangles if you have room and skills
But even out of the box you need need some skills to set them correctly
I have the bottom bracket + freewheel version 2 with the square taper .
I would prefer the new version with the ISIS spline.
Then it would be perfect
And they are so much fun
That is a correct assumption easier said than done requiring a new very tight tolerance 3 plus tool though. Making either adaptable to an impact driver will make it smarter not requiring brute or potentially damaging force. The old trick of temperature differential of parts is yet another common assembly/ disassembly truck
Cheers
The tool should really be spanning opposite holes so the unscrewing is an even pull on the thread around the diameter. I'm guessing it's a fine pitch, so even more reason to balance the rotational force on the thread, a simple mechanical engineering principle really. Got my unit arriving in a month and can't wait.
Agreed about using opposite holes. I have tapped gently with a rubber mallet with good results. Also, if you are lucky enough to have access to two Photon kits, you could use two tools in push-pull to increase torque and reduce the thread friction. The Photon chainline can go as small as 47.3mm which is a great fit for my old 135mm MTB back wheel.
I had a ton of trouble trying to swap down from a 50t to a 38t chainring. In the end what did it for me was to make a much longer lever to work with. I put a piece paper over the 5 holes in the chainring cap and poked through at the holes to make a template. Then I found a scrap of plywood maybe 4 feet long and wide enough fit all 5 holes. I drilled the hole locations and found some bolts the right length and diameter to use. I also stuck a 5 foot piece of pipe over my chainring tool handle. It still required a *lot* of force and the ends of these levers. Like I thought I was going to break it and kept pulling well past that point. I'm very surprised I didn't shred it. This time when I installed the new chainring I used some anti-seize on the threads, which I hope will help the next time around. Possibly this might be related to torque loads that happen with a 50t chainring? I don't know.
Thats impressive work. I think you win a prize for effort. I think you might be right about the torque.
Thanks for your honesty about this motor. No motor is perfect, but this could make future versions better, if they care...
No one gains anything by only saying the good parts. Hopefully, they will fix. Cheers
When pulling the lockring off, pull towards your body with your back muscles instead of pushing away or compressing with your chest muscles.
Right. Greater strength in that plane then. Cheers
Left side bearing is S6805RS - stainless 25x37x7 single rubber seal. There are many alternative configurations that should work - chrome steel and ceramic options, with one or 2 rubber seals. Bearings 61805 are the same size and should also work.
Great stuff
solid video dude, hope to learn more about the photon, once all the issues get ironed out might be a good motor for a nice eMTB conversion. still not sold on the 85nm bosch bikes that require 8,000 USD for 250w.
Cheers Ryan. I'm not sold on Bosch either.
If you ever watched Hambini Perfomance Engeneering, it is always about manufactoring tolerances. You can even see paint rub off where something is touching where it aint suppose to touch
I'll check it. I know the Japanese and Germans are famed for their tolerances in making engines. It's not encouraging for the other parts if these are so far off. I hears from another guy who had an earlier manufactured one and he said his was much smoother. Although potentially the other way as it sounded grindy from letting in grit and debris.
I was thinking about getting me one of these but after watching this video, i think i'll wait to see other models
I think I have the chain ring removal sorted now. From what I'm hearing the failure rate on these is about 4-5%
Funny you mention this. I noticed today my photon seemed sluggish to pedal without power. As if its dragging on something. Im going to see if that bearing is the issue. Thanks.
It most likely is.
Good info to be aware of. I have a couple of ideas to shim out the bearing with round spacers and fabricate a simpke long tool out of flat steel with locating pins to engage the ring with lots of torque. Just ordered the Pro gen 3 and will be more aware of this type of issue.
The Gen 3 I'm not sure will have these particular issues. Good reports on that mostly. Using some heat might also help. Appreciate the advice. Thanks
@@HighVoltageKits Just come into this video, gen 3 is also not so smooth on back pedal, dont know is it a feature 😂
The relationship between chain whip and tool in your video is counterintuitive to maximizing your muscles and leverage. Change the position of the tools relative to each other so you can apply maximum power of your arms, shoulda, body etc. Set it up so the chain whip is bearing down on a bench or your gut or something. Hope you can follow my poor explanation?😉
Appreciated. I will do this next time for sure. Makes total sense.
I don't think that bearing is supposed to bottom out into the cup. I don't have the installation directions but I would pus the bearing in as far as the outer lip allows, then tighten the lock collar so that it JUST touches, then back it up ever so slightly (for thermal expansion), then clamp it down. If the axle doesn't touch, you're golden.
Also, the drag you're feeling isn't really an issue at all. If the motor isn't turning what you're feeling is the one-way clutch, seems like a sprag type. You spun the axle backwards. If you went forward we would see the chainring rotate. When you spin it in the correct direction I think you'll notice what I'm talking about. There might still be a bit of drag, assuming it's grease, but I don't know how many gears are in the way before the one-way clutch is installed on the motor itself. Typically they would be installed as close as possible to the final output, but then it would be subjected to the most radial and axial forces = bad life expectancy.
Anyways, I'm going to purchase one and take a look myself. I do a bit of engineering myself :)
Yeah. I will allow a bit more room this time. Honestly though its a crap design when I look at it more. There is not much to stop grit and debris getting in there over time. The would have been better off using a combination of bearing types including a thrust bearing to do a better job. Its a minor issue in terms of the drag you are right as I had not noticed until I took it off the bike. When you spin it backwards its no where near as smooth as say a BBSHD. I just got it back from a warranty repair for the hall sensors so I will update on the motor soon. I know people that don't have the bearing issue so it may well be a manufacturing tolerance issues. Look forward to hearing how you get on. Cheers
That's an interesting observation. I disagree that they would need a thrust bearing but could be convinced of an angular contact bearing. Might check to see if those bearings aren't already angular contact. If you're unfamiliar with that type, it's a cross between ball and thrust. The angle differs depending on the load. Shimano hubs use cup and cone, which are, for all intensive purposes in their application, angular contact. On cranks there is very little axial force so thrust would add drag when a single good bearing would suffice. I enjoy your videos. Thanks for providing them.@@HighVoltageKits
i agree with you about angular contact bearings and one might be able to replace existing ones to make the arrangement more resilient, if they are not already installed It was a really great video that dug down into the issues and whatever engineering is going on there I do believe it can be made bullet proof @@JonPrevost
For adjusting the tolerance on that bearing cup, I would lay a sheet of fine grit sand paper on the flattest surface you have. Then lap the face of the cup until you have enough clearance to not bind on that plastic insert. Sure you'll lap the color off, but should be no biggy. BTW I've found BB cups from all types, and manufactures (even the big guys) to be binding, and stiff feeling. A lot of times is all fine under load, even if it feels stiff while turning by hand. I have one of these Photons coming, need it for a PF92 frame I have. Been a long time tongsheng tsdz2 with OSF user, but no real great options for PF92 BB. I found some extensions, and PF92 inserts, but seemed too hacky IMO. Thanks!
I am not sure what I will do yet. It had to go back to get repaired due to a hall sensor issue so I will do something when its back on the bike for sure. Being able to use a wider range of BBs is definitely an advantage for the CYC.
Find or make a narrow ring to fit in the "cup" before you put the bearing back in. It just has to clear the "inner race" to work. For the outside assembly, put a 1 mm feeler gauge between the bearing and the "lock ring" so there is just a bit of "end play" in the shaft when you set that clearance and tighten down the set screw. For getting the chain ring "lock cover" off, you might want to do what I had to do on my Yamaha Tmax to get the CV clutch off. I took a large washer and drilled holes in it's circumference to match up with the holes. Then I added Grade 12 metric bolts to the holes to act as pins. I then welded a pipe handle to it and with a "whole lot" of grunting, it came off. I also had to heat up one small area of the nut with a torch to expand the nut so the wrench would work. Or you might try to find a pipe that would fit over the end of the "pin wench" to use as a "cheater bar". Maybe flatten it a bit so it does not twist on the pin wrench. Go luck.
Make a part to fix the poor designed of the unit. Really ! People paid a grand for this unit.
That tool sounds like a beast! That would do the job here for sure. I put it on my wife's bike for now but I think if I make something it will engage the points like you describe.
Its a strange choice. They are lucky the torque sensor is good!
@@HighVoltageKits The other choice I forgot to mention is the "Y" wrench. Take a bar about 2 feet long and add a second bar of about 8" to the longer one at about 6" or 7" from the end of the long one. Drill and bolt the two together at that point and drill holes for bolts that will fit the holes in the chainring. I made one for my Tmax, but is was not heavy enough to do the job. It would work for this though.
@@HighVoltageKits I sent this video to Jon at CYC and he said that the LH bearing depth was on some of the first motors, but has been addressed. Seems "interesting" that in a previous video you were "wondering" how to get the chainring cover on tight enough. ;) You seem like you can make things, so how about cutting out a steel part with a 1/2" socket "square drive" in the middle and a circle of pins to fit the CR cover. Then you and torque it and remove it.
I’ve tapped on the tool with a rubber mallet to get it started. Not elegant, but worked for me when I needed to take it apart.
Yes, staccato force always works better than dull force if stuck.
I used that to remove the bearing! It's tricky cause the tool wants to bounce out and the surfaces are angled. I will have another go on the next installation.
@@HighVoltageKits I had to make this tool in order to remove my chain ring! What a nightmare. ua-cam.com/video/zpLf4mbjs7M/v-deo.htmlsi=CzwgYvEBKPuvTJMF
I was never planning on buying a CYC motor, but I am really disappointed in their products from what I have seen. Their price points and marketing will have you believe that they have a premium product, but it seems like the attention to detail simply wasn't there when designing their motors. That being said, have you tried using a pipe as an extension for extra leverage with the chain whip?
You mean try and anchor the tool and rotate with the whip. It might work. I might get an extension welded onto the 🔧
@@HighVoltageKits yes. No need to weld. Just get a long pipe that will fit over the chain whip handle.
Chain ring: I would put the motor back in the frame to hold it stationary. Warm up lock ring with a heat gun. Get a pipe over both wrenches for more leverage, and have someone else hold it all while you work .
Getting a pipe over the supplied tool will be hard. I might have to 3d print something in polycarbonate to fit around it.
I'm having the same issues.
Chain ring stuck on.... and just started making noise, sounding like bearings. Only have 70miles on it. Before that...whisper quite.
So took it apart and put it back together. That's when i discovered the chain ring stuck. I choose the 34. Was thinking about going to the 38. But idk? now....
Anyway. Went for a ride. Now it sounding like its in the motor now...
Going to contact CYC.
Just bought it in September.
Yikes. That's pretty fasts for a fail. I just got mine back so I will be going over it this week. If you check out the comments you should see quite a few tips on ways to remove it. I never took mine off in the end I sent it attached to Golden motor! They have a whole set of special tools for doing repairs. I figured that was easier than me scratching it up with the thing they send.
The chainring is more easily removed when the motor is installed on the bike, it is much easier to get good leverage. I have removed and installed a couple of chainrings now no problem, and I am a girl! 😊
I should have done it on the bike Susan. I already had it off when I was asked to try it. Using the cranks as a lever seems to be the best method I have been told so far. What chainring are you using now?
@@HighVoltageKits I swapped from a 40 to a 38 - as I prefer to spin and feel like the 38 has better torque for riding steep roads and trails in the Portland area. Btw If I recall - the spindle has to actually be removed to change the chainrings - a huge PITA if one wants to do quick chainring swaps for different terrain.
Yeah it does as it has a ridge on it to stop it passing all the way through.
You can remove/fit the chainring with the motor on the bike but you must remove the non-drive side crank, locking ring and through-axle before trying! I spent several minutes wondering why it was getting tighter again! I was lucky not to damage anything, silly me! I swapped from a 34T to a 38T as I wanted offroad capability but also a bit more speed on a straight-ish chainline.
Put the 'chainwhip' tool in a vice to secure it so it will free up one hand and you can use two on the pin spanner tool.
I like it! Might try this one as well.
when trying to remove the chainring, position your the handles of your chainwhip and specialty tool closer together, so you can squeeze them together to loosen. rookies….lol
Thanks Jim. You are not the first to school me here lol. I'm not the greatest mechanic at times! I'm lucky I can call on my father in law when I get really stuck. Appreciate you taking the time to help out. I will employ the technique if I go to a 50t upfront..Although I'll need to get it back off my wife first which might not be easy as she really likes riding it! Cheers
I doubt anyone could loosen the ring in the position you held it. Try setting things up such that you can hold/squeeze both the chain wrench and the tool supplied by CYC in one hand (or two). This will give you much better leverage. If that doesn't work then you can resort to more mechanical advantage with pipe etc., but always best to be in an orientation where the two handles need to be brought closer together. That way you will have more control and, I think, better results.
Thanks Brett. I appreciate it!
Consider making a tool out of angle iron , or using a cheater bar made from exhaust tubing which can be hammered to fit spanner .
I had not thought of exhaust tubing. That would probably fit better.
The plastic bearing shield is not only causing the bearing to appear stiff, it is probably preloading the bearing and may cause it to wear. At least that should be replaceable with another OTS bearing. Ironically, over-preloading the setup with the lockring may actually remove the preload caused by the plastic shield. Maybe the fix is to just chamfer the inner edge of the bearing cup, or drop a shim into the cup before fitting the bearing - but 0.4mm is a LOT!
Can you identify the bearing size please?
Its back on a bike. I could not see any identification but I modeled it so if the dimensions can help you iD it I can get you those.
@HighVoltageKits I would think the plastic collar has been placed over the labeled seal, but the dimensions will make it pretty easy to identify. It won't be anything special.
I've just received my photon and installed it. Didn't seem to have these issues initially, definitely seems like there is drag in the transmission, but none while say just backward pedaling. I'll be keeping an eye out for this issue... Odd question that I can't seem to find an answer to. Does the Photon have a regen when not in assist mode? Say while just pedaling? Thanks for all of the information on this rig!
The Photon cannot do regen as it has a clutch and freewheel. So the motor cannot run against the load in reverse.
Rog. Thank you! Would be cool if there were a mid drive option that allowed say a "downhill" regen while loaded via pedal. Could really extend a ride!
need an electrically operated clutch for that which is not easy@@sr20detized
Just wanted to comment - at 1200km my left bearing feels rough. It is clearly in the early stages of complete failure. Corresponding bearing on right side feels as good as new (of course, that doesnt spin while pedalling).
Urgghhh. It's not a good design to just use the two bearings. I can see why they did it but smooth it does not make. They needed a thrust bearing in there.
@@HighVoltageKits I think there is another (larger) bearing in there, since the outer drive side bearing only accommodates the rotation between the shaft and the chainring. However, there is a real problem with how the preload and left crank position is set (and can be messed up) by the installer. The ISIS standard assumes that there is a fixed shoulder 16.0mm from the left end of the shaft, for the crank to land against (and the crank MUST do this). In CYCs design this isn't even clearly described to the user, and it is possible to use the wrong combination of spacers. Add to that, there is no really clear way to define preload, and too little preload causes problems also (look for wear on the shaft rotating in the plastic sleeve instead of the sleeve rotating in the bearing. I hope CYC revisit this part of the design (and a shorter shaft option would be great, too!)
Great video
Appreciated. Thanks
That sucks
Looks like you need to make a tool
You could make those two prongs stick up from a bit of metal that you can clamp in a vice
Then sit the motor on top
And get some real leverage on the chain whip
But I would say the prongs might break.
Here is a couple ideas
You could alfind some high tensile steel that would fit into the prong holes.
Eg I'm thinking high tensile bolts chopped down
Get long bolts with short threads
Lots of bare shaft
The same od as the prong tool prongs
Remove the thread and
the bolt head in the process chopping the two bits of high tensile bolt shaft down to the correct length you need.
You could just then clamp them into the vice sticking up or
You could also find a bit of metal and drill and tap two holes in it
Insert your long bolts thread first all the way though or in
Then chop the bolt shafts off at the correct length leaving two prongs sticking up .
Then clamp that in a vice
There are some tool apparently for motorcycle that might work. Good thoughts. A guy showed me a tool he made like this. The welding is not exactly my scene but I can probably find a mate if need be. Cheers
new into the idea of building a ebike with kits like this, What does this mean for the motor, is it still worth getting it or will it fail in long run?
It has a two year warranty. This is a minor niggle that I did not notice when riding. So far the failure rate seems to be around the 4% mark. That's come from chatting with a few dealers. The main issue seems to be slowness to get new parts.
Interesting.. This motor is one of the candidates I was thinking of for my cargo bike.. Is there any reason why you couldn't buy or make a washer from 0.5mm shim stock to push the bearing out beyond the 0.44mm issue? Granted it shouldn't be like that from the factory. RE the lockring...Trying to work that with your hands at 180deg to each other is making it difficult for yourself. Position the tools so that they are close together and you can use both hands wrapped around them the crack off the lockring. Or do similar in terms of positioning them close together but use the chain whip against the workbench and tap the other tool with a hammer.
Appreciate the advice. You might want to consider how heavy the bike is going to be with cargo. It might not be the best choice for heavy loads. They are making a more powerful Proton but no release date as it stands. I will likely shim the bearing once I can persuade my wife to let me have it back lol! Its not a show stopper but would be nice to fix it.
@@HighVoltageKits well, hopefully the plastic will wear in use and free the stiffness up a bit. Will keep an aye out for the proton. RE the photon I was thinking of going for the higher powered version. Apparently there's a firmware version that lets you switch between street legal and beast mode! (if I've understood correctly)
secure motor in a "jig" (vise?), then reverse your tools and instead of "push" try to "pull" adjusting for optimal tool placement..
Thanks for the tips. I think you are right about the pull rather than the push! Cheers
How did you remove and reinstall the bearing onto the non-drive side BB cup?
I used a punch and rubber mallet to gently tap it out and a bearing press to put it back in.
@@HighVoltageKits 🙏
In their latest video about the Photon, Rikus addresses several issues including the use of copper based anti-sieze compound when fitting the chainring retaining ring. There is also now a 5 pin 1/2" tool available in their shop for that ring.
ua-cam.com/video/AHtHbvLuxDc/v-deo.htmlsi=IrqB_hEKi5UCTaDS
How about making a spacer for the o.d. of the bearing that would space it out the appropriate amount. Do you know someone with a metal lathe?
That was my first thought 1.5mm spacers on each end should do it
Yeah. Like a shim. I could do that. I could also remove some material outside of the cup.
John could you put a bit of copper grease on the outer side of the bearing this may stop your friction
I was pretty liberal with the grease. Its the plastic part rubbing unfortunately. It's smoother on the latest install but not like the way you can spin the bbshd pedals.
where you ever able to get the chain ring off? im having the same issue with my motor
No. I had put it on my wifes bike and about three weeks afterwards it started having issues. I had to send if to Golden Motor to get it serviced so I decided to let them deal with it. From chatting to them they have a whole set of tools to work on them. He said he had never seen anything like if for bike tools. I should have it back in a week or so. Will update then.
@@HighVoltageKits i handed it over to a friend, who made a long pin wrench out of steel. the effort he used was unreal, but he god it off, no damage to the threads or motor, aside from a few scrapes
Heck Mate mine didn`t even come with the spanner. I don`t know if the distributor took it out as to resale or it didn`t get put in box from manufacturer
LOL. Yeah you win that one. How did you h
get it built?
I used a brass punch and lightly tapped it tight. Yea I know torque specs out the window. Right. Well I ordered a spanner from Amazon and checked it when it came in. The Ring assy. is good so far. I hope I have no trouble with the dang thing. Like your videos and channel. Good luck with your CYC units. I have 2 but will stay with the bbshd for future builds. I will miss the torque sensing feature but have managed to operate the bbshd for good linear throttle response. Just use the throttle to give edge on really hard stuff and steep starts. I don`t use the pedal assist much in the mtns. as the decay feature is a pain even when dialed down to 0 time. HD seems to be a brute as you know from your use. @@HighVoltageKits
A sharp impulse with a hammer and orienting the tools correctly will really help remove the chainring. You need to be pulling them towards each other very close together then get the wife to give your tool a few love taps with a copper wammer
😆 That might be how it's done. Apparently there is a trick with the crank arm to get better leverage. I'd already removed that tho.
This chainring design is clearly a low point of this motor. They need to modify the design to provide a better mechanism for this. The tool they provide is awful, and having to use a chain whip is not ideal, unless you have three hands. Perhaps a spring loaded holding pin like we find on rear derailleurs, and a nut versus having to use a spanner? Hopefully they address this, as well as the bearing issue you point out.
Yeah its not my favorite part right now lol!
Even reputable bike makers like Cervelo and pinarello have issues with bearing cup misalignment. This is Unacceptable
hi, i have the same problem on both sides , but much worse on the non drive side, i have picked the plastic bearing insert away from the bb cup and runs smooth, but as soon as you tighten up the lock ring its stiff again, , on the chain ring thread i used some anti seize compound, so i hope this makes it easier to remove, i will find out tomorrow ,, is this plastic ring thing even needed? thanks for the video...
The plastic ring has a ridge to engage with the one on the lock ring. The quickest solution is a washer shim I think. Even then it won't be totally smooth by design.
Try 2 pin spanners. One in each hand while the motor is being held in place.
So that tool is called a pin spanner then. Its an actual tool then?
Yeah. Pin spanners are the thing. If that part actually does spin to loosen that’s what those holes must be for. The company probably has a custom tool that fits a pin in every hole on a long handle for maximum force distribution. Your small spanner isn’t applying enough rotation pressure. 2 spanners might do it if they don’t slip out or start flexing.
Good to know the issue is minor.
Cheers mate
Are you shore about the Axle is not off on being straight?
I'd be shocked if it was. I think there would be other issues if the axle was out of alignment in terms of motor noise. It's on another bike now and performing well.
If E-motor is froming just fine on another bike that would indicate the bottom bracket is not straight on first bike. The bottom bracket (BB) maybe straight hole bored thorough. but, the treads are not straight that would cause the bearings 1 or both to make noise. When operation at low speeds can hear it noise but at high speeds would mean that noise pitch is just to high for the human ear to here. I would adventure to say that BB Missed align at the manufacturer plant during being made. Which would mean that tools at plant would need to be replaced sooner that later. If the bearings are to lose in its holder would also create noise. When operating the at any speed just means you maye not here the noice. This is indication that the E-motor system will not last has long as my BBo2 version bafang. Which i have operate it for over 10 years now. The bafang still operating strong. I ride it for commuting most day for work. It has metal gears in the unit & not plastic, Nylon or whatever. Enjoy what you have. @@HighVoltageKits
Have you tried putting a pipe on tool for more leverage
I didn't have anything like that to hand. I'd probably have to weld it on. Apparently, there is a trick using the crank arm to try in the future, but it will be the next uninstall I do.
I just received my photon and the bearing on the drive side is tight while the other side feels fine. Here's a video: ua-cam.com/users/shortsUttb2qOFI7Y I would agree that on mine, it feels more like rubbing than like a bad or tight bearing, but I haven't taken it apart.
Edit: I just pushed on the bearing from the back with my hand and it loosened to the point where it now feels smooth, definitely a bit concerning.
I think some shims will be your easiest short term fix. At least that was the concensus.
@@HighVoltageKits Thanks! with regards to removing the chainring, you might try bracing the motor against the ground and using your body weight to apply force to the chain whip on one side and spanner on the other, if that makes sense.
If you're putting the cyc on the wife's bike, what are you moving onto next?
I have a few motors from the TOSEVEN motor company I'm playing with. The Photon has been on the wife's bike and off cause it's broken sadly. Off to be repaired. It's likely the halls or controller. Not sure which. If you want to see those you can list the most recent videos on the channel. Cheers.
you need to turn in to she man hold the motor up and say i have the power 😁
By the power of Grayskull it shall be done... Maybe
@@HighVoltageKits leverage big lonng bar just find something to go over the end of the tool and get someone to hold the 2 pins down or make a custom one if you can weld
The tool doesn’t exist. If you look at the Pinion lock ring & tool that is what needs to be made. Interface with all the pins and actually get a torque wrench on. Shit design from CYC with a proprietary chainring.
I don't like it either. The tool would be expensive to make. That's why you get the crappy spanner thing. Right to repair is really gaining ground finally. This is a backwards step.
You need a bigger hammer. Fixes everything that duct tape can't.
😆 hammer and duct tape FTW
you'll never loosen the lock ring, you need leverage the ring tool needs a good 30cm/12' extention then it should loosen much easier, as said elsewhere that 2 pin tool is a shit design the tool should engage more of those holes on the ring .... the bearing seat, you could try using shims, you could make one from a coke can just to see if that helps or order shims online somewhere or the extreme, machine the outter down on the bearing seat
I have a photon presently with no problems as of yet. I just don`t see this unit being better than the bbshd when it comes to sheer toughness and service ability. I`ll can mine if I have problems and chalk it up as a lesson learned. Also have stealth gen 3. From what I see cyc is not on my want list anymore. I`m 2 grand into their units so far. Thats a enough for me. YMMV
Which one is harder to pedal without assistance photon or stealth?
I can`t really tell any difference in the no motor assist peddling. Both are quite easy. I like the units but just hope I have no issues. @@ataksnajpera
Thanks for the comment. A thin ish washer should work. I will be interested to see if CYC say anything on the tolerance issue.