Review: Decca's Frustrating Pierre Monteux Legacy
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- The frustrating bit is the packaging, with two big boxes, one annoyingly incomplete, and the better, complete one (discussed here) now out of print. Most of the contents, of course, are wonderful, but you'll have to do some digging to find all of this stuff. Come on Decca! Get your act together! Pierre Monteux was one of the greatest and most important 20th century conductors. His legacy deserves better treatment.
Not only was Monteux a great conductor. He was a great orchestral builder. He actually rebuilt the Boston Symphony Orchestra TWICE! The first time was when conductor Karl Muck and half the orchestra (German members) were sent packing - Muck was imprisoned - as a result of WWI. The second time was when half the orchestra quit in the '20's following a failed attempt to unionize. Monteux rebuilt the BSO once again, bringing in many French musicians and leaving Koussevitzky with the great orchestra he conducted for 25 years. And Koussevitzky never invited Monteux to guest conduct the BSO! Only when Munch took over in 1949 did Monteux return to the BSO podium. By the way, Monteux recorded the Symphony Fantastique five times. First in 1929 in Paris - Monteux clamed this was his finest recording - twice with the San Francisco Symphony - and stereo recordings with the VIenna Philharmonic (which he didn't like) - and finally with the NDR Symphony in Hamburg, a recording not many people know, but which is really wonderful.
I was able to participate in an informal student-maestro discussion with Monteux back in the 50's, when he visited the Eastman School. I recall a student asking him: "Maestro, in your opinion, what is the best symphony orchestra in the world today?" He undoubtedly had been asked that question many times, and his answer was immediate: "The one that gets paid the most."
Thanks so much for this review of the Decca box and discussion of Pierre Monteux. What a career. What a life! Zelig-like. Glad you mentioned the RCA Tchaikovsky symphonies. Such wonderful recordings, but seem to have been overlooked by many. It was nice to see them included in those Living Stereo box collections I think. His 50th anniversary performance of Sacre is on UA-cam. We are so lucky to have these documents. again, thank you.
Another great conversation and I also would add Felix Weingartner 1863 - 1942 whose beethoven and brahms are great. Not as long lived and not in stereo but important I think as well. Cheers .
I was delighted that you reviewed this important Monteux box, out of print though it is. I purchased it as soon as it became available, Monteux being one of my favorite conductors. Such a benign presence on the podium. Yes, a maestro, but no autocrat he; a true collaborator with orchestral musicians. And a great pedagogue, too, as generations of budding conductors who made the journey to Hancock, Maine over many years can testify. We usually don't think of the Pine Tree State as a venue for world-famous conductors who knew Brahms and premiered epoch making works by Stravinsky. But Monteux was a fixture in the musical life of Maine, and is partially responsible for the thriving music programs that enrisch the cultural life of universities, colleges and summer festivals in a state that I once called my home. And, yes, this "Decca" box contains many treasures from Beethoven to Dvorak, Sibelius and Ravel. Thanks for making your audience aware of it.
Great survey. Excellent. Very enjoyable and informative. Thanks
While not in this set, my first experience with Monteux, as a teenager, was the RCA Franck: Symphony in D minor. I played it to death, and have been a Monteux fan, ever since.
Grandparents had the same disc in their collection and as a teen recorded it onto my Sony reel-to-reel but at much too high a level, and ruined it for me. Haven't heard it since, will have to try a listen again.
Keep up the great work Dave.
I have not been watching your videos long but I have made some great personal recording discoveries of works I already love thanks to you!
The Munch Romeo and Juliet for instance is staggering. Bernstein’s NY Dvorak 9 has replaced Kertesz’s LSO as my favourite, it is so rapid in the fast movements, what a recording! Yeah
I would love to see a review of the recent Zimerman and Rattle Beethoven piano concertos, I have the deluxe edition on preorder as it comes with Blu ray video.
Thanks and your work is very appreciated 😊
Splendidly done. And thanks for the shout-out to the Jochum "Enigma Variations," which is right up there with Monteux and perhaps finer still. But it's such a shame that the Monteux CD legacy is a case of "Now you see it, now you don't," especially when the RCA and (second) Decca boxes cover virtually everything worth having, IMO.
Dave, I would love to see that spreadsheet you talked about, the one with the old conductors who lived long enough to make good recordings. Would you think of a video dedicated exclusively to the topic, for example? Maybe it's asking too much of someone who keeps giving us so, so much... Thanks for everything you share with us!
Thanks for this spot-on report David. There was a rumor that Decca would issue an Ansermet big box to replace the 3 italian Universal boxes which were ok but lacked editorial work. Texts for this new box were already commissioned from a noted scholar. And then all the sudden, it all misteriously stopped. Perhaps other projects took priority over this one.
Just to let you know, this set is back on Amazon. It costs £528
That brought back lovely memories - Monteux's Petrushka on RCA was my introduction to the work (as mentioned, still an amazing performance despite the competition). I have a 5 CD Phillips set, which included the Concertgebouw Eroica, Brahms 2nd and Tragic, Debussy, Ravel. Great stuff but why they called it 'The Early Years' is a mystery to me - certainly wasn't Monteux's!
I was lucky to obtain this box immediately after its release - and what a wise decision that was! Among the many wonderful things, it also contains the stereo Rite of Spring. When this was first released on vinyl, it was mono of course. The critic in High Fidelity Magazine commented - " A finer example of recorded sound does not exist." The quote may not be exact, but it is close enough. Recordings have obviously improved quite a bit since then.
The Beethoven 6 is absolutely wonderful - just gorgeous playing
It's the only performance of that work that didn't bore me to death. Fantastic.
Regarding early performance practice: Thank You for saying so and often. I've been asking for years how is it the guys born in the 19th century didn't know about 19th century performance practice?
Monteux was one of the greats who did not lack for stick technique and had heart and flexibility to spare while still running a tight ship and he knew how to make an orchestra.
I'm one of the lucky who owns both the Decca the RCA sets along with some wonderful sets from West Hill Radio including the oddity: Sunday Evenings With Pierre Monteux and San Francisco Symphony. Recordings of pieces no more than 20 minutes in length as designated by the standard oil company who I suppose thought their listeners could not take in more at a sitting. I've often wondered what his career would have been if he and Toscanini had switched places and how Arturo would have fared with an orchestra not created for him where in San Francisco Monteux built the orchestra over time. By the end of his tenure it was a very good band and produced wonderful performances without being absolutely 1st class.
For those with less deep pockets there are copies of Pierre Monteux: Milestones Of A Legendary Conductor with a mix of performances from the 2 sets with some additions. Only some $25 on Amazon. I do not own this set but I have a few others from the series. Technically they are a mixed bag but can be worth the gamble; even if the sonics aren't great the performances are.
Personal nostalgia: The first Monteux recording I owned was the LP he made with his son Claude, contained in the box, bought because my mother and I went to Claude's Monteux's Hudson Valley Philharmonic concerts and because my mother was on the board we were at one time or another guests in Claude's home. Imagine: I knew someone who's father knew Brahms and who was a truly great Brahms conductor.
Sad note: in the spring of 1964 Claude announced to a group of us that his father had promised to conduct his orchestra the coming season. Sadly he died that summer. An almost moment. I'm sure the orchestra who have suddenly sound wonderful. I glad to have so many of his great recordings!
Monteux also met Mahler. He prepared the chorus for a performance of the 2nd but said he didn't like Mahler because Mahler didn't thank him. Andre Previn said that Monteux was one of the kindest and wisest human being he ever met. Lovely man.
@@hmhparis1904 When I was a child my father took me to a concert at the Royal Albert Hall given by the London Symphony Orchestra under Pierre Monteux which celebrated the fiftieth anniversary of the notorious first performance of the Rite of Spring. Not only was Monteux conducting this historic concert, but Stravinsky was in the audience and took a number of curtain calls with the conductor.
@@tonywatts6699 Wow, what a memory. That is the performance on UA-cam!
Dear David: great video, as always.
Could you review the Klemperer collection (EMI)? I know: not a box properly, but great recordings of the traditional repertoire, IMO.
Greetings!
I'll wait for the next box. It's got to come eventually.
Dave when I go to the wild blue yonder, I want to listen to the Monteux Beethoven Pastoral--my very first record!
My favorite conductor of all time. Andre Previn’s too.
A fine review, as always. I really appreciate the thoroughness with which you do these things. But it has given me an idea to suggest. Despite the various crusades, schleps, series, and miscellaneous shenanigans in which you are already embroiled, might I suggest you do a series in which you identify something like a "starter pack" for individual great conductors (or orchestras)? I don't mean recommending boxes or anything like that--more like pulling out ten or twenty recordings that you think represent the range of various conductors at their absolute best, irrespective of what label has released whatever box at any given moment. Another thing that might make this appealing is that it will clarify for the addled--for, say, whiny Furtwankers--that your criticisms are inevitably of music and specific performances of music. This could be fun in a few ways: it would challenge you to pare down a figure like Bernstein, Klemperer, or Toscanini for newcomers, offering them a set of undeniable "convincers"; it would give you a chance to focus a video entirely on a great artist who isn't as famous nowadays as Bernstein or Toscanini, like Otmar Suitner (my greater appreciation for whom I owe to you); and it would allow you to dispel, permanently, any notions certain parties might have that you congenitally dislike any particular (say, German or English) conductor. It would be fun, no? "The 15 Ormandy Recordings Everyone Must Own." "The Very Best of Antoni Wit." "The Essential Charles Munch," specifying his best versions of repertoire he recorded over and over. Even (imagine) "All Five of Simon Rattle's Great Recordings." And so on! Just a thought from the peanut gallery.
Here’s a question on which you might wish to comment in some future video. Should “complete” editions include studio recordings that were not previously issued because approval was withheld by the artist in question? The question came to mind because the “complete” Decca Monteux box apparently still does not include the LSO Leonore #3. That was recorded by Decca and was also, I am told, once available on an Acoustic Sounds LP and a Japanese Decca CD. I do not know if its first release was denied approval or simply not issued due to lack of a suitable coupling. Nonetheless, the question remains. My own preference would be to make it available with full disclosure that, for whatever reason, it was not approved for publication at the time. Others might feel that it be buried forever to honor the wishes of the artist.
My own feeling in most cases is that less is more. If it's great, of course I wouldn't mind hearing it. Otherwise, not.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I remember the Beethoven 5th wasn't issued at the time either. The Japanese first issued it on lp around 1980 or so, and now it's part of the oft reissued Beethoven cycle that wasn't really a cycle.
Monteux's Beethoven symphony recordings with the VPO and the LSO, excepting the 9th and the Concertgebouw 3rd, were all engineered by Decca for RCA in a licensing arrangement the two companies had at the time. The VPO 6th and the VPO coupling of the 1st and 8th first appeared in the U.S. on RCA Living Stereo LPs. The VPO 3rd and the LSO 2nd, 4th, 5th and 7th first appeared in the U.S. on RCA Victrola LPs a year or so after Monteux's death. The reason they weren't issued on a top price RCA label was, according to RCA executives, Monteux's recordings didn't sell well in the U.S. The 9th was a Westminster recording and appeared as such in the U.S. The Concertgebouw 3rd was a Philips recording and I don't believe it was even issued in the U.S. until the late 70s when it popped up on a Philips Festivo LP. The rights to the RCA recordings reverted to Decca in the early 70s and the Decca/RCA ones were all re-issued on London Stereo Treasury LPs. I don't recall if the Westminster 9th was ever re-issued on LP, but someone out there will know. The Leonore No. 3 did appear on LP. It was coupled with the LSO 4th on a Classics Records release in the 90s. They used the same jacket as the Victrola 4th, which was coupled with the San Francisco Siegfried Idyll. Fun isn't it. Polygram issued the complete cycle on CD a few years ago after they acquired the rights to the Westminster catalog, but I don't recall if it included the Concertgebouw 3rd. Again, someone out there will surely know.
@@alanmillsaps2810 Oy! I remember the day...
Somewhere I read a comment by Stravinsky, in which he praised Monteux's integrity and professionalism in connection with the Rite of Spring premiere and the ensuing "scandal." It was a bitter experience for the composer, but Monteux never took advantage of the circus atmosphere to promote himself. Everyone seems to agree Monteux was a deeply admirable man. I'd say he earned those most excellent whiskers!
Dave, hear please and review the Prokofiev 5 with the Philharmonia Orchestra under Santtu Matias-Rouvali (on signum classics). I think you would be happy with the tam-tam i the 1st movement :)
In the past you have reviewed some of those really cheap Membran boxes including, I recall, Paray and Markevich. There is a 10 CD Monteux box out there in this series that includes the classic LSO Enigma. Have you heard this set? I haven't but it's really cheap and might be worth investigating.
No, I haven't heard it.
Very interesting. Wasn't the Berlioz Romeo and Juliet a Westminster recording? I assume Decca bought the rights to this. It last turned up on an MCA Twofer which sounds fine.
Yes, it was. Universal owns the rights.
Hi Dave! Just hearing fantastic Pierre Monteux fantastic Chicago Franck D minor. I read somewhere that it is in circular form... duo you know what that means??? Thanks!!!!
Cyclical form--all it means is that themes from the first movement return in the others as a unifying device.
I don't have the box but I have everything in it. Oui, marvelous legacy. Another non interventionist conductor, though he didn't live into the lp era is Weingartner b. 1863 and many of his recordings from the 30s are in decent sound and also go to knock the historicists into a cocked hat. As well as refuting the myth that there was ever such a thing as an authentic single echt Deutsch style in Beethoven and Brahms.
David i meant to ask, i've heard Pierre Monteux was a great director and i listen to him sometime but, as for Furtwangler and some other , when the good or perfect recording, the quality of a cd has to do with great listening? I mean, Toscanini was great conductor there is no doubt but in most of the cd i own with him, , like Beethoven symphonies are mono, how to compare a mono recording of Toscanini or Mengelberg with one ddd on cd by Karajan? How can you spot a great recording that is mono when the sound is really bad sometime and one that in cd with digital recording by Karajan or Carlos Kleiber ? Thanks in advance if you answer when you have time. Please excuse my english that is really bad i hope i explain myself.
It's not a question of stereo v. mono. Many mono recordings sound excellent. It's a question of how well you can actually hear the music. Past a certain point, the recording technology doesn't really matter that much, and different listeners will listen for different things and have different "cut off points" when the sonics preclude comfortable listening. That's all I can really say about it, aside from the fact that there are recordings that are so limited that much of the music is simply lost or inaudible, and in those cases the people who love them are offering their own imaginative recreation of what they wish was there, but simply is not. For some, that is also an entertaining way to experience the music, but not for me.
@@DavesClassicalGuide thanks, i agree so much and most of all what is important to me is that i am moved to tears by such works of art and i think you too.. Keep on like this David. Grazie for your videos.
Your comments about conductors who were living when the music was composed is very apposite. I've been listening recently to the ongoing Dvořák Symphony cycle by Musica Florea. They started off straightforward and fine, but somewhere along the line conductor Marek Štryncl got infected with someone's views on contemporary practice and explains in the notes how tempi should be continuously changed. The result in Symphony No 5 in F, Op 76 and other more recent issues is to me quite ridiculous and totally unnatural. Beecham who was 25 when Dvořák died recorded this work in 1935 - certainly a bit flexible, but nothing at all like what Musica Florea are forced into by their conductor. Similarly Václav Talich who recorded other Dvořák Symphonies a couple of years later - 21 when the composer died and very familiar with the practice in his homeland. Have you heard the Florea issues?
No, and now I have no plans to!
When is the cat going to make an appearance in your videos? Ha ha
She already has, many times.
If you want to avoid the bottom part of the box falling out just store it upside down
Yeah, that looks just great on the shelf.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I didn’t say it would look great 😊
@@smoerup7955 True that!
I think it's clear that vibrato strings didn't start in the 1950s, but some of the older brass and wind instruments do sound different than modern counterparts. So there is a reason to listen to modern recordings using older instruments, as long as the conducting is worthy (e.g., not Norrington, Xavier-Roth, Immerseel).
They don't sound different enough for it to matter, expressively speaking. The differences are of academic interest only. I have never heard anyone even attempt to quantify the impact these trivial gimmicks have on the emotional experience of the music, independent of the conductor or the individual artistry of specific players. It's all BS.
I love Italy, but the Italian branch of Decca-Universal does not seem very rigorous - in addition to the Monteux box, they also forgot some items in their Sviatoslav Richter box.
Also - Decca's home office will be releasing a new Erich Kleiber box in a few weeks to replace the old Italian Decca Erch Kleiber box.
I know. Here we go again!