Frank Dikötter | China Since the Communist Revolution
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Since the Communist Revolution of 1949, China has emerged as a world power that poses a threat to the West. This first CCA of the 2019-2020 academic year will consider the history, culture, and challenge of China.
Frank Dikötter is chairman and professor of humanities at the University of Hong Kong and senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. Previously, he taught at the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, from which he earned his Ph.D. He has written numerous books, including The Discourse of Race in Modern China, China before Mao: The Age of Openness, and Crime, Punishment and the Prison in Modern China. Dr. Dikötter is the author of People’s Trilogy, a work that documents the impact of communism on the lives of ordinary people in China. The first volume, Mao's Great Famine, won the 2011 Samuel Johnson Prize for Non-Fiction. The second, The Tragedy of Liberation, was short-listed for the Orwell Prize in 2014. The final installment, The Cultural Revolution, was short-listed for the PEN Hessell-Tiltman Prize in 2017.
My grandmother, who escaped from China in 1955, used to tell me similar stories when I was a kid. She passed away in 2009, carrying with her memories of that terrible time, the uncertainty of fleeing to a new land, and the slow life-long affirmation from her descendents that she made the right choice.
I think she's right and admire her courage. But notice that the current protesters are just another form of "tyranny of the majority" not unlike that of the Red Guards in communist China. Democracy in its simple form of 1-vote-per-person general elections is more like communism than people realize. What HK needs is more sophisticated and innovative reforms. I am trying to start the HK Neutral Party to achieve that.
IN THE MEAN TIME LIFE EXPECTANCY in RED China doubled,
Write a book to honour her
One just has to visit China to see how non-communist, totally capitalist it is .. The state, a vicious monopoly of control, surveillance and so called justice. Nevermind the mountains of trash, pollution and putrid landscape of the country. Like every revolution, even the Chinese one meant nothing in retrospect - well these hacks from the west have made a career of it never the less..
@@kingyinyan254 you dont know what tyranny really is if you think this is it. I can label anything as tyranny, does not mean it is true. Communist regimes are always totalitarian dictatorships so no, democracy is nothing like communism.
Great lecture. As a man grow up in Chinese, I can not agree with his words more.
Everything he said is literally true. I want more people know such bloody truth.
Outstanding. More institutions need to listen to Dr. Dikotter's existential important truths of history. Understanding these facts of the CCP inform an understanding that is, at present, severely misunderstood, and under-estimated.
Dikötter is brilliant and a welcome break from "China hands" that either play down or deliberately overlook Mao's atrocities. Mao's Great Famine is heart-breaking (I personally prefer the audiobook).
@King Leopold Silence, troll!
@@censorshipbites7545 ironic thing to say “silence!” to silence others given your UA-cam name. I guess you want to avoid censorship of narratives that suit you, but don’t apply the philosophy when something doesn’t match your narrative.
As for the deaths constantly quoted under Mao, the exaggerate claims of deaths from starvation were not increased but decreased from the deaths *before* Mao’s reforms owing to Western imperialist interference with China prior to 1950. Look up life expectancy data from 1950 to 1970, and multiply that through the large population. Mao brought live expectancy from 45 to 70 over his career, literacy from 10% to 80%. I sympathize with you as I used to have similar notion but after a lot of work realized I was completely brainwashed within Australia. Upon a lot of research it turns out that Mao did exceedingly more for the people of China than he caused problems and without Mao and their liberation of China from capitalists in the early 1950s, the whole county of China would have followed a path similar to India or Indonesia which both had a similar (even slightly better) initial conditions. Now China has eliminated poverty and has far better health care, higher literacy, economic mobility and business than India or Indonesia and is even catching up to the West which it was exceedingly behind in 1950s when Britain was still bribing and calling the shots over there.
@@NoreenHoltzen _ironic thing to say “silence!” to silence others given your UA-cam name._ No, the name is highly apropos given that I've been living in China for the last 20 years, where I'm forced to use a VPN to access this very website since it's blocked - censored - by the CCP.
_I guess you want to avoid censorship of narratives that suit you, but don’t apply the philosophy when something doesn’t match your narrative._ I call bullsh!t on the load of Communist propaganda you're about to spew, as you'll shortly see.
_the exaggerate claims of deaths from starvation were not increased but decreased from the deaths before Mao’s reforms owing to Western imperialist interference with China prior to 1950_ Ah, so this is where the bullsh!t begins. "Western imperialist interference"?!?! I'm sorry, did the Marxist-Leninism Mao was pushing originate in China? Of course not, it was Soviet (Western) communist interference, so nice try with the biased language.
The beautiful thing about Dikötter's book, which you clearly haven't read, is that his death tolls are based on records in official CCP archives around the country. Dikötter added up reported deaths in each province to extrapolate the total death toll, so is your assertion that CCP officials were exaggerating the number of deaths from starvation?
_Look up life expectancy data from 1950 to 1970_ Sure, let's look at the life expectancy data. Oh, oops, looks like you're ignoring the decline during - wait for it - the famine Mao caused.
_China's growth in life expectancy at birth from 35-40 years in 1949 to 65.5 years in 1980 is among the most rapid sustained increases in documented global history... _*_These survival gains appear to have been largest during the 1950s, with a sharp reversal during the 1959-61 Great Leap Famine_*_ that was then followed by substantial progress again during the early 1960s..._ Babiarz et al., Popul Stud, 2015
_Upon a lot of research it turns out that Mao did exceedingly more for the people of China than he caused problems_ Wait a minute, you don't get to run 2 defenses simultaneously: Mao didn't do anything wrong, and if he did, he did more right than wrong. Mao killed roughly 40-45 million Chinese. If you want to claim he loved his dog and enjoyed long walks in the woods, so be it, but Mao killed roughly 40-45 million of his countrymen.
_without Mao and their liberation of China from capitalists in the early 1950s_ And now you're spouting ahistorical bullsh!t. That's not my opinion, it was Deng's. Mao severely stunted the Chinese economy with his communist utopianism, and it was only after his death that China flourished. Seeing small-scale free markets spontaneously emerge, Deng opted to allow them instead of crush them, as Mao would have. And Deng opened the southeastern port cities to Western investment. As Deng himself said, calling the cat "communist" or "capitalist" is irrelevant (a clear refutation of Maoism) as long as it catches mice.
_I sympathize with you as I used to have similar notion but after a lot of work realized I was completely brainwashed within Australia._ I don't know when or why your conversion to communist apologist occurred, nor do I care.
Try peddling your warmed-over Marxist-Leninism and Maoist apologia to someone who's buying.
@@NoreenHoltzen "China has eliminated poverty"?
I suppose there's also no repression in Tibet or East Turkestan.
Speak to your Chinese family or friends who are 80+. They will tell you the same stories over and over again of the evil of Mao.
My mother in law was a medical professor, when Mao came to power she was forced to go to the rice fields and work 6 long days a week for 2 years as part of her 'rehabilitation'.
Her brother a professor of language was sent to prison for 18 months to 'rehabilitate'. Fortunately none of them were murdered, but they knew people who 'disappeared' never to be seen again.
These are very intelligent people, caring, loving people with oodles of common sense, but when I asked them why they let it happen... the cadre of evil name 'fear' is the most common answer in many forms. Fear of being murdered, fear of family being murdered, fear of prison, fear of losing everything... FEAR is a powerful motivator.
Through fear and genocide are the only ways for communist to come to power because they know that if they let the people to freely decide on whether or not they will be in power for sure they don't any chance in being elected to power by the people and that is why every communist dictator opposses free elections. They hate the word freedom to begin with and they hate much more the possibility of people achieving freedom. This is a video that most ignorant and programmed millennials who love socialism should watch before making the mistake in supporting their future dictators and oppressors. I don't understand how people who have lived in a free society all their lives can subscribe to socialism. That is the equivalent of an individual or a people making guillotines and voluntarily have the guillotines tested on them.
... and yet the Chinese shuffle through Mao's mausoleum daily.
That was excellent he is on of the few scholars i have hear to acknowledge President Trump's stand against Communist China.
A very informative speech. Reflects the truth about China.
Finally, the Chinese's real voices from the Chinese of the generation living after 1949 when CCP took the power can be believed in and respected for ! For those like myself, though it took such a long time to understand the true nature of the CCP, the voice to USA current president, scholars, thought leaders and many more Americans sounds like warning! Still lots are still remaining unawake!
Fascinating talk on history of China / Mao. Thank you.
Keep Hong Kong free. This man should be listened to by all free governments.
It's like common knowledge to most Taiwanese people, still good for westerners finally paying attention to it. CCP has to be eliminated once and for all.
Amazing review of China from about 1900 to today! This professor has lived in Hong Kong for many years and has great insights on what’s going on there currently.
Great lecture, great story teller.
Such a celerity! I hope more people will watch this lecture.
My question is, why are we still allowing this to happen today?
Tiberius Paladin The main reason: the propaganda of Communist China is very effective. Just think of their term, “The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution” (无产阶级文化大革命). This is the most Orwellian term ever used. Mao started in 1966 a CIVIL WAR. I visited China and spoke with hundreds of Chinese in Beijing after it ended in 1976. They and Dikotter would all agree that it was a civil war. And their propaganda and bullying tactics are still in effect today.
Greed. And because you buy products Made in China.
You can still buy products from China economically, but we're talking about removing their government completely.
@@TesterBoy , well we're coming to that road where we'll need to make a stand to them soon.
@@Mwerner123 Pray a Chinese Pope into Vatican.
His mention of the organization department of the any communist party is fascinating. It is a secretive entity to make sure party cadres who get promoted through the food chain are "true fanatics"
I've spoken with people in China who have lived in the time and have described exactly what he is talking about. This is true.
If opportunity given, I would like o share my personal story happening during the cultural revolution!
Nat Nat Please share. Post a UA-cam video.
Wow, very eye opening talk
He is right about being a historian. He studies the past not future. When future becomes past, he will explain why.
This is why Kevin McCarthy's ideas on the speakership were forcibly changed. A one-party system, the uniparty, is a CERTAIN path to horrific consequences for all.
OUCHfor !No Christmas cards for Hillsdale and Dr Dikotter from China or Yale.
Mark my word in less than three years China will implode from within or first attacked by external foes like US. Japan, Australia and India.
An important reminder of real facts. I have been long voicing my opinion that the normalization of China is dangerous. I refer to the likes of Montesquie and the enlightenment in the West that ensured personal freedoms we enjoy today. Never forget! Authoritarianism is on our doorstep.
It's 2021 now, and you've been proven right. Never ever trust any Communist regime!
Great lecture, and off course I cant take my eyes from the girl who holds the mic. What a beauty!
The guys are cute too
@@jessealexander9074 Hahaha! Agree!
Eager to hear the rest, but the early claim of a formidable fighting force (Early ChiCom military) must be a relative qualification.
That formidable force did push the mostly unwitting UN forces back out of North Korea, but the cost they (the Chinese) paid in casualties just in Nov 1950 alone were not indicative of a quality organization, but merely a quantity (mass numbers of human bodies) based "force"
I would like to know if anyone can name one external conflict which the Chinese forces have actually won. I am not aware of a single one.
Their conquest of mighty Tibet in 1959 comes to mind.
I hope to hear on why the westerners would have trusted in Deng XP.
Interesting to know that Khrushchov's (?) words had such an impact on Mao and the CCP.
That's true and by extrapolation, Putin has a lot of influence on current China also...
After hearing lectures like this one there will be WOKES who will denounce it as LIES. GOD BLESS AMERICA and FREEDOM.
Great video have revisited it many times now, an excellent talk. But my god is it ever cringe watching nearly every person asking a question hold on to the microphone. do they not notice that she is also still holding it and that their hands are awkwardly touching.
Thank you. But now talk about Netanyahu massacre
Mao was both the Lenin and Stalin of China. Meaning he was the monstrous ideologue of an idealistic dream that can never be achieved.
Schools, colleges and Universities are funded by organizations controlled by the CCP. They don't teach students about Communism & Socialism and the destructive result in their pursuit for utopian authoritarianism.
Nowadays, we see young adults who talk down to their elders and parents whenever we accuse Communists of their bloody ideology. These literal children dare preach their forefathers about how wonderful their ideology is and how we are the antagonists in their utopia.
'the FEW freedoms they have are being undermined'? lol, so this is a historian's take on the current state of affairs in HK?
I agree with you. Hong Kong has enjoyed such a high level of freedom, almost unbelievable, since the handover in 1997. The "extradition bill" that set off the current protests, was just a minor signal that our freedoms might be "eroded" by the Chinese government. Much of that fear is imagined, paranoid, fueled by pro-Western propaganda and incitement.
Which is not to say that Hong Kong has a very good political system with self-determination. This is still a problem to be addressed. But China seems willing to give a lot of freedom to Hong Kong, just not the Western-style democracy with its antagonistic attitude towards mainland Chinese people.
@Lord Azarkhan My stance is neutral and I'm not affiliated with any side yet. If there is a Neutral Party I'd join it.
King Yin Yan You suppress your own history. You speak false.
King Yin Yan You are neutral about the CCCP? Scores of millions dead and you are neutral?
@@kingyinyan254 Hmmm, I hope you are right. But I highly doubt it. Your way of thinking tells a lot about how freedom can be lost.
The great cause of the famine was Western propaganda. Dikotter frames his analysis from the perspective that ignores the initial conditions of China and what they achieved through their plight (literacy from 10% to 80% under Mao, radical improvements in healthcare, etc). Dikotter’s figures of 40 or 20 million starving are cyclically referenced (pseudoscientific) and primary sources are *selected* to match the desired conclusion (confirmation bias). The figures are trumpeted because of our *real* qualm over Mao - we were unable to maintain or take control of China. The phrase “Loss of China”’ was in our newspapers frequently in the 1950s, which is telling, as it assumes you have to own something before you can lose it. Regarding deaths, look up the increase in life expectancy from 1950 until 1978 - it rose dramatically from Mao’s reforms, so he saved lives almost radically. If you think about it you have to respect for China successfully fending of western imperialism prior to 1948, a profoundly difficult achievement. Look at the result of the other major regions that failed in this regard (Africa, India, even aboriginal Australia, etc). Respect to Mao and vast bulk of the ordinary population for protecting China from outside interference. Mao also did the forgotten but crucial work of rural health development programmes saving 100 million lives and modernizing architecture which set the conditions to make the industrialisation that followed being possible. Life span increased dramatically, rights of females and literacy increased from 10% to 90% under Mao. Rather than cherry picking setbacks give respect where respect is due.
James Millius is very cute. Woof.
i've had a crush on him for a long time
He’s a man you freak
@@nicolasdesautels2848 yeah he's hot
Would you have agreed with that kind of police action should the same riot happened in your country? Words are free, what would you suggest with that kind of mad destruction of public going on?
If the communist takeover here what you see in Hong Kong is going look like a picnic
Still China is one party state. It can be called totalitarian state following mixture of communism and state capitalism.
790 thumbs up, from a world population of 8 billion. This should be shown in all schools. But that happening is 1 in 8 billion.
1:28
I'm not sure how he can resist correcting people who mispronounce his name.
Every word this man said is true.
And Lin Buo, well, rhe plane crash isnt even confirmed. Not even sure if its agreed on why/if he was killed and where he was headed--if on the plan with his family.
Let's be honest, if the exact same story was told in service of Christianity or a religion, most of the mouth breathers who take Hillsdale college seriously as a university, and not a reactionary diploma mill, would be cheering.
Needed only 4 decades to achieve the prosperity status, that the Western world needed 200 years to comply. Democracy created hindrances whereas socialism with Chineses characteristics enhances "speed" on advancement. Nothing other than "Communism" suited the Chinese for a New China which was then a heavily populated country. As for those deaths, a casualty from civil war or revolutionary war happened in every country that has succeeded in trying to seek power or independence.
Partly true, but a dear price was paid before the economic recovery. Most sane people would not agree that the bloodshed and famine, miseries, were worth it.
Every word he said is true. If a country can not face its own history, can not face the truth, this country is doomed to repeat the history. China may be prosperous now materially, Chinese people are still in prison: a prison of mind. Not allowed to learn truth, being spoon fed lies is sad. I came from China, I know
China "achieved" prosperity through the primacy of the Marshall Plan view of the world where the US essentially sacrificed part of it's wealth to support nations like China as a means of maintaining stability and peace. It's easy to achieve "speedy" wealth with the modern technology and infrastructure created by Western Civiization. China grew by taking advantage of the wealth the rest of the world had to expend on it's goods.
Do you still believe what you wrote over 3 years ago?
As if the speed is of utmost importance! Not. It sounds like XiYangXiXia thinks the ends justify the means. Scary.
This a historical presentation from 80 years ago of which the context of these events was colonialism, the chaos of WWII, civil war and extreme poverty for which Dkotter fails to connect. What was happening in China must be assessed relative to world historical events in every other country. He is noticeably silent about the last 40 years because the positive changes in China, such as the elimination of extreme poverty doesn't fit his narrative.
At the cost of how many lives of Tibetans and Uyghurs? How many concentration camps and, according to the latest UN report which did an in-depth study over the last several ears, how many dissidents and Fa Lun Gong members who have been killed and their organs sold? And the elimination of extreme poverty? The party created that poverty killing millions, and then later shifted the poverty line to make things look rosy. So, if you want to talk the last 40 years, please include that into the narrative.
@@lopsided123 Well, are you interested in one-dimensional, media propaganda or actually in-depth, nuanced, scholarly history that don’t easily fit into sound bites? China during this period was fragmenting under colonialism, gradually being carved into pieces by several Western nations, heading in India’s direction, of complete subjugation and takeover. Western accounts gloss over how reprehensible and humiliating is colonialism. Ever heard of tens of millions of Indians starving under the British Empire? The complex relationship between Tibet and China goes back millennia. There is also a long, complex history with Xinjiang and many people don’t know that Uyghurs are not native to the region. Xinjiang is a single day’s drive from Afghanistan, a warzone the Americans have relentlessly fought for 20 years. Frequent terrorist attacks plagued Xinjiang that are not reported by Western media. China’s response is similar to internment of Japanese by Americans during WWII. Whether right or wrong, History can only tell if China took America’s example of bombing and war, in response to terrorism.
Secondly, this was period fraught with internal conflict and civil war. Few people know that China has minorities group spread across the country. Within the chaos of civil war, people die on all sides, across the whole of China but eventually China was mostly reunified, with the exception of Taiwan. Do you know how many people died in the American civil war? What about the genocide of the indigenous peoples? Did you know that organ harvesting is a problem in surrounding countries India, Philippines, and Indonesia? (These don’t make the headlines because it’s an inconvenient narrative that these countries are democracies). Or that China has banned the practice years ago. It is easy for developed countries to judge developing countries, when they’ve had a substantial head-start.
On poverty, your claim is false. China was living in extreme poverty well-before Communism took over. One can track the GDP of the country year by year. Extremely poor countries suffer famine and many people died. The party during this period, was far from perfect, made blunders, was driven by hardened nationalism, and ideology shaped by the Japanese invasion, a common theme for the period of the world at the time, that drove the madness of the World Wars. In the last 40 years, China has lifted 850+ million out of poverty and has become the 2nd largest economy in the world. For any trained economist, this is an astounding fact of transformation, in speed and scope. While many democracies in Africa, India and Latin America continue to languish in poverty. Is this rosy? No, it has been a tumultuous struggle, but nonetheless China has made significant measurable progress.
lopsided123 Someone who takes a ridiculous cult like Falun Gong seriously isn’t worth debating
@@ExplorerBob to lift 850million of your people out of poverty is an incredible accomplishment this alone deserves great recognition. I'm sure that number would grow exponentially if you were to include those benefiting from projects abroad in South America and across Africa. The anti China rhetoric is so transparent I cannot believe so many in the west blindly follow that narrative while enjoying their lives of excess every thing they own and love was made in China.
We know what happened '40 years ago'. Do you think people are so ignorant not to know what happened ? Following Nixon's visit China opened it's doors to the outside encouraging investment and trade. It was not a political solution it was an economic one. It was done through trade with the outside world which the communists had sought to prevent until they were forced to do it by their economic mismanagement. In other words prosperity was achieved in the same way as other Chinese communities ,Taiwan ,Singapore, Hong Kong had done it decades earlier - by trade not politics.
President Trump is a genius
He's either playing 4D chess, or doesn't know the rules and moving things randomly, flipping the board as needed.
Frank, you need to buy some new shirts 😉
Interesting topic, poor speaking manor ... Wish I could listen to it ...
the sound engineer should’ve mix the voice louder
Easier to listen to sped up
This is typical people with ideology bigotry who lives in his own fantasy world....
Without Mao most Chinese would be eating grass today.
🤦♂️
Well what about Taiwan? They are much more prosperous and has a higher GDP than China. Finally, tell that to 70 million who died of Moa famine including my mother sister.
Can this chap speak Mandarin? I read his books and the graphic description of things seems a little over the top and too fake to be believable.
I’ve read some of this charlatan’s “work” and it was immediately apparent on both occasions that he is not an academic by any means. However, he is a successful propagandist; using dubious sources, twisted evidence and outright lies to denigrate China, Mao and the communist party. If you trace his references like any decent academic you’ll see this. The west tends to eat this sort of thing up and heaps praise on “brave” authors who stand up against dictatorship. His work is ridiculously one sided with no attempt at balance. Not to be taken seriously. It’s a shame because there is a real lack of competent western Chinese modern history writers.
As a Chinese myself with direct experience on the horrors of Moa's Great Famine, I can attest on the authenticity of Frank Dikotter's book.
S should be beaten to deat h by the red guards
S• How about YOU doing some research? I’ll wait.
Mao defeated Chinese establishment and established his rule. Man in power fighting against the establishment he created. Same way Trump will win the was against US establishment, their civil laws, judiciary and military complex!
Mao, the so called "revolutionary", simply followed imperial, unchanging theory: China is a perfect society. In need of nothing from the outside world. Therefore its borders can be sealed and what occurs there is matter purely for the Chinese. He believed politics was a form of clairvoyance or gnosticism. That he embodied the eternal mind.
每天自己骗自己 也难为这些老外了
那你来启迪启迪大家啊
@@licf452 😏没钱才不来
Why there is no Chinese dissenter laws vying in West gives this kind of lecture. May be they think it's Eutopia? What famine? What mass murders? All propaganda !
Very manipulated account of the history. Filled with cleverly left out facts and contexts. Sun Tzu said know your self and your enemy if you want to fight without endangering yourself. With Americans today educated on only propaganda it is a wonder that they understand anything about themselves or their enemies. The Chinese understand themselves and over the centuries they have gotten better at understanding the West. The west used to understood itself but never understood China. In these circumstances I would advise not to warmonger to fight the Chinese. The advantage is clearly in their corner.
George Shao
You wrote a long speech, but didn’t actual say anything. If there’s anything in particular he said that you disagree with, or think he left out or misrepresented, then provide that information clearly. Simply calling something a misrepresentation or propaganda does not make it so. On the contrary, the fact that you have not provided any detail leads me to believe that you have no detail to speak of.
@@armendell3291 My Speech was about 7 sentences. Which is enough space for me to simply present the fact that there are people who challenge the truth of his story on how the Chinese revolution happened. So that this wall of comments is not an echo of agreement to this shyster simply due to the ignorance of a western audience to Chinese history. To tell a coherent counter story I would need about a 1hr talk as he has to make things fair. The shorted 1 paragraph version of the truth if you want it goes something like this.
China at the time of the civil war and revolution consisted of 2 cultures diametrically opposed to one another. The costal culture and the interior culture. The costal culture represented the cities which had the westernize industrial and commercial economy. This culture represented western colonial culture and was ruled by westernized elites. The interior culture represented the country side which had the agricultural economy rule. This culture represented traditional Chinese culture and was ruled by Chinese communal traditions. These two cultures hated each other. The coastal culture hated the interior culture for being backwards. The interior culture hated the coastal culture for being disloyal and morally degenerate. The vast majority (over 90%) of Chinese lived in the interior culture and sided with the interior culture. The communists particularly Mao recognized the power of the interior culture and made it the base of the CCP's power. Mao's genius was that he believed in those illiterate peasants as the dominant force to control China when no one else would. Mao was the only one to offer the peasants a social vision where they remained at the heart of Chinese society. The peasants in the end had no alternatives, all anyone else would other them was eternal servitude as inferior human beings. Hence despite all the material advantages of the KMT, the CCP won out in the end. Holding 5% of the country and pretending the other 95% doesn't exist or worse trying to force the other 95% to comply by force turns out to be a losing strategy.
In the end the story isn't about devious communists and authoritarian strong men. It isn't even a story about economics and blunders of US foreign policy. It's simply a story about culture and where culture takes you. The Chinese culture has an inevitable direction. That direction is not in any way aligned with western social philosophy. To not see this is to not understand at all what is going on.
@@georgeshao9103 your take is too simplistic and doesnt really refute his.
so, on the basis of this presumed ( still dont trust your communist propaganda) dichotomy between these two chinese culture, you would justify this other presumed " inevitability" of Chinese history?
History is made up by a myriad of processes and consequences of causes, not by a manifest destiny, as the communist propaganda would have you believe.
Also, tell me how the peasants were better after mao ? It doesn't seem that his intentional forced famine improved their condition
@@Nesher92obviously all 2 paragraph takes are overly simplistic. Simplistic doesn't mean it doesn't contain any profound truths. There is no manifest destiny in any part of my explanation nor will you find my arguments in any communist propaganda since these are my thoughts and no one else's. So take your misapplied words that you copied from somewhere without understanding their meaning elsewhere.
Also lets just agree to disagree rather than say you call my views propaganda and I call your views propaganda back. This is just name calling and we can do it back and forth at infinitum. I put these comments simply so that readers who are opened minded know that there are others that think much differently and can present good arguments to the contrary.
Lastly your questions of how are the peasants better after Mao misses the point I made entirely. Which had you understood it was about how Mao and the communists were an instrument of the popular will and beliefs of the peasants. You questions then is akin to asking how are the peasant better off under the peasants. Maybe there is a benevolent all knowing external will that is better for the peasant than their own. That however is an argument for slavery and is a common argument presented by slave masters to trick their slaves.
@@georgeshao9103 you say that chinese culture has an inevitable direction. It doesnt. There are so many variant that is just illogical to make this absurd claim that a culture can only go one way (conveniently the one that bows down to the ccp, right?)
Again, in your claim you added another piece of information that doesnt reqlly refute his, although you made it seem like it does. Simplicity doesnt really hold truth, especially not in historical analysis like this one, which is why you might be speaking for propaganda purposes in favor of the ccp.
Also, you are claiming that when peasants are free it because they're actually under slavery ? That is against logic. Just another way of saying the Orwellian " freedom is slavery "...
This man doesn't konw much about China.
Umm care to explain
@@ryanburbridge "Chan" is simply a troll. Dikötter teaches at HKU and bases his books on research in mainland Party archives.
at least he pretends he does and people believe, lol. sad
Perhaps you don't know your own history....
@@futurefighter2008 Put up or shut up. Where's your evidence that Dikötter fabricated sources or materials?
this guy tells some truth, distorts some facts, and overall tries to spread hatred in his passionate words.
Wang and chang ccp bots?
grigori yevimovich rasputin do tell what did he lie about. Set the record straight
@@ryanburbridge I'm from Hong Kong and I think Dikötter is correct about the history, from my non-expert understanding. But I am skeptical whether Western democracy is the only way forward for China.
Saying truth is nor spreading hatred? As expected of CCP-bots!
Every word he said is true. Many in the west did not understand China, Frank understands and he articulated very well. Unfortunately, many Chinese did not/do not understand China and her most recent history, because CCP has deliberately brain washed the several generations. Why do I know? I grew up there.
胡说八道，一派胡言。
NMSL CNMB
HK is a better place with the national security laws than without it.
the guy gets the pieces right but disagree with his conclusions.
I agree and it is because he uses selectivity to match his conclusions. As for the deaths constantly quoted under Mao, the exaggerate claims of deaths from starvation were not increased but decreased from the deaths *before* Mao’s reforms owing to Western imperialist interference with China prior to 1950. Look up life expectancy data from 1950 to 1970, and multiply that through the large population. Mao brought live expectancy from 45 to 70 over his career, literacy from 10% to 80%. I sympathize with you as I used to have similar notion but after a lot of work realized I was completely brainwashed within Australia. Upon a lot of research it turns out that Mao did exceedingly more for the people of China than he caused problems and without Mao and their liberation of China from capitalists in the early 1950s, the whole county of China would have followed a path similar to India or Indonesia which both had a similar (even slightly better) initial conditions. Now China has eliminated poverty and has far better health care, higher literacy, economic mobility and business than India or Indonesia and is even catching up to the West which it was exceedingly behind in 1950s when Britain was still bribing and calling the shots over there.
@@NoreenHoltzen If capitalism was a bad idea. Why did they return to it ? If collectivisation of agriculture was such a great idea. Why did they return to private farms? What capitalists existed in China in the early fifties ? ( Are you thinking of landlords).Why do you compare China to India , a vastly different country socially’and not to Taiwan ? Why did the per capita income of China not increase ? Etc etc .
*KINNOSTAVA LUENTO. KIITOS. Bangkok-Jomppa* ua-cam.com/video/vQZNOvIEN78/v-deo.html
haha...But China will continue to do well while America will continue to decline..................
haha...But China will continue to do well while America will continue to decline..................
No, they won't. China will fall.
@@greggrimer1428 you better start learning to speak chinese