The PRC family was developed for long range performance with heavier for caliber bullets. And they do that well. Myself being 64 years old, The longest game animal shot I have taken was a hair over 200yds. My 280 Remington in my 1985 Browning A-Bolt loves 160gr class bullets . I have taken from Red Stag down to small pigs and everything in between with one load. My 280 has worked exceptionally well over the years for me. I have no need for anything else.
Great cartridge that Remington just killed with poor marketing! I bought one when they first came out and everything the 270 is with just a little more punch and larger bullets!
@@steveelder5306you have chosen wisely you shall be rewarded with better ammo availability and cheaper to shoot and less recoil in a shorter length rifle! My father got the pre64 in 308 in the featherweight and he took a truck loads of deer and elk with it using the Nosler Partition bullet!
The key statement in this video was “7 PRC is the turnkey solution”. In the hands of a proficient, experienced handloader, the 7RM will absolutely do everything that the PRC will and maybe a tiny bit more because of a slight advantage in case capacity. Same with 300WM vs 300PRC. The PRC cartridges are just a smart way of getting the performance of a handloader (almost) in a factory offering. They are very cool cartridges, especially for the non-handloader.
Maybe, maybe not. I do believe that the new 7mm PRC has a higher-pressure rating than the 7mm Rem Mag. Not having a belt and having a better shoulder are plusses. But I think it depends on individual rifles and what they like barrel length and more. Velocities don't make good groups. It's a combination of factors and to get accuracy may not be the higher velocity.
I think people would be interested in seeing you guys shoot some gel at a few different ranges. It would show why ethical hunting ranges are very important and how bullet expansion drops off when velocity drops.
Then you get to see which one is a better cartridge! All this talking is making me tired I just like yo see results and not all the BS even though Ryan has a head full of knowledge the truth is in the results😳 60+ years of hunting reloading and collecting bolt rifles and there is always to much BS in most gun videos and not showing the end results to back up the actual results on game!
Hey there I have a 7mm-08 and I count it among the finest deer cartridges ever made. Super easy shooting, short action and it hits every bit as hard as my 270 does, my one and only issue with it is that for some reason that Browning A-Bolt HATES all factory ammo (3-5" groups no kidding) so I have to reload for it, but my 140gr Gamekings are hitting well under 1" every time. I own several deer rifles and the only one that really competes with the 7mm-08 for the perfect deer rifle is the 6.5x55 which is just perfection with modern loads.
My factory A Bolt shoots 140gr TSX under an inch with no issues. Never had an issue with any 140gr factory loads for that matter. Sounds like you need to check scope mounts or try a PROVEN optic on it to verify.
@@sneakybow1 If it were an issue with the optic or mounts (both of which are quality units) my handloads would not be shooting well below MOA, I have handloaded for dozens of rifles over the years and my A-bolt is by FAR the strangest, but as long as I got it shooting good I don't care too much.
Have enjoyed Ryan’s words on so many podcasts, but as a older handloader , I’m surprised, and was surprised the first time I heard his thoughts on the 7mm rem mag. Especially hearing Ryan’s knowledge and respect of cartridge history. Oh well, guess we all have personal strong opinions. Keep up the great content fellas
He talked about 7 rem mag on their old 7mm-08 10-minute talk…compared the two…threw shade at the rem mag then too. I don’t own a 7 rem mag, probably never will but I respect it as a cartridge.
I know multiple professional gunsmiths that all say they can get more out of the 7RM handloading than they can the 7PRC. The PRC is basically an off-the-shelf custom rifle for lack of a better explanation. Longer throat and high twist rate. If your 7RM can accommodate seating the bullet out a bit... you will get more out of it than the PRC. I actually love all of the PRC cartridges... but they aren't as fast as the advertisers say they are :)
It also has to do with the PRC being developed with new powders, not much room for improvement, and the rem mag being developed with previously used powders. Leaving a lot on the table for the rem mag in hand loads.
@@trent57tx Yeah... I have a custom 7Mag w/ 1:8 twist. I seat the bullets out a bit and I am well over 3000 FPS with two different powders and 180 Berger VLDs. A lot of fun!
That section where Mark asks about handloading, I have a slight caveat to add. Being that that throat is a lot longer (which is not a bad thing) in the PRC, you cannot optimize the lighter, more prevalent projectiles on the market in it. In the Rem Mag, you can handle all of the above. That's no bash. Now, I'm tempted to get a custom PRC reamer designed with a Rem Mag throat (because I handload) because it doesn't have a belt to mess around with.
I've shot the 7mmRem mag for 60 years. I've always been able to push the 175's well over 3000fps and 160 over 3100. My newest barrel is an 8 twist and throated long enough to seat them out. If indeed more, I have my 7mm Mashburn Super and a 8mm Mashbrn Super.
Unfortunately, I’m reading lots of guys aren’t getting the advertised velocity of the 7mm PRC. Additionally, hand-loaders are reporting clickers after a couple firings. I personally began experiencing this with my 6.5 PRC. The 7mm PRC is a move in the right direction, but it isn’t perfect. I really think your first choice in the .280 AI was wise, especially in a custom rifle. I used to shoot .280 AI years ago and I loved it.
@@biggs8729 because the chamber dimensions vs the cartridge dimensions, there is a stiff “click” at the top of the bolt lift after firing a round. The more times it’s loaded, the worse it gets.
The 7mm and 300 PRCs have along way to go to enjoy the popularity of the 7mm and 300 mags. While I haven't had either of the classic magnums for a while now. A ton of folks do. And if your 7mm mag or 300 mag is still putting in the work. Why would a guy reinvent the wheel? I think Ryan is right though. The advent of 7mm PRC Power point/Corelokt/Whitetail line of cup and core offerings, will certainly help more folks to jump on board. I just do not have a need for a long range monster where I hunt. So neither hold much interest for myself.
Yes if already own the Rem Mag can get alternative factory or custom loads and not lose much from the PRC choice. Up to deer then better options for more enjoyable hunting.
I shoot and hunt with the 7mm mag and the 7PRC dose solve a problem with the 7mm mag. The factory twist rate is too slow for heavy long 7mm bullets. The belt is and has always been unnecessary and a bad way to set head space. Am I getting rid of my 7mm mag no, but if I did not have a 7mm I would get the 7PRC now.
@@mangrumpyold1871I understand the 7mm prc has some issues. Excessive fouling after 40 shots. Brass wears out fast. Barrel is down to around 1300 shots before bore is shot out.
Not enough difference to create another cartridge. If you need a more powerful 7 mm with more recoil then get a .28 Nosler. The 7mm PRC is a great cartridge but not needed. Great video . I shoot 140 grain bullets out of my 7mm rem mag but I only hunt deer . I have never had a deer get away after being hit and my longest shot was 430ish . I guess it all depends what you'll be using your gun for if you are chasing larger animals I can see using a heavier bullet but for even large deer people have been killing them cleanly for almost a century with 130gr 270 Winchesters. Deer didn't all of a sudden get immune to light fast well placed bullets.
I would have said that a few years ago, but then, very few people were shooting their hunting rifles at targets 1000 yards to a mile. For the vast majority of hunting situations, the 7mm Rem Mag is fine, if not more than needed. The chamber design of the 7mm Rem Mag is very good and similar to modern cartridges (unlike the Winchester Mags). If you plan to frequently shoot at 400 yards or more, though, the reduced wind drift of the PRC makes it the better choice.
@@madwe2269 The chamber design in front of the case is very different. The Win Mags use the old-style single taper, forcing cone design into the rifling. The cone starts at .315" diameter. Winchester continued using this old design until very recently. The 7mm Rem Mag uses the modern "match chamber" design with a short tube of snug freebore before the taper into the rifling. The freebore is only .0005" larger than the bullet diameter and ensures that the bullet is aligned with the bore so that the rifling is engraved evenly. That way the bullet spins around its axis and doesn't have unpredictable lateral jump as it leaves the barrel. The standard SAAMI chamber used in the Winchester Magnums allows the bullet to start into the rifling at a slight angle, leading to the rifling being a little deeper in some places than others. This can create a slight imbalance as the bullet spins rapidly in the bore, leading to a lateral jump as it leaves the muzzle. Finding a load that shoots very accurately is typically more difficult. When the 300 Win Mag is used for precision shooting, like by the US Military, custom match chambers are used. The 7mm Rem Mag often keeps its standard chamber.
Unfortunately, these guys are wrong about the tolerances. If they look at the SAAMI specifications, the freebore diameter of the Rem Mag is actually slightly tighter ( by .0001") than the PRC. If the rifles made had added slop, it was the fault of the barrel makers. The SAAMI spec of max tolerance, + .002" is the same for both. The 7mm Rem Mag was essentially a SAAMI-approved match chamber and well ahead of its time. Although Hornady said in a podcast that the tolerance really should be higher, they did not include that info on the drawing sent to SAAMI.
The difference is counting on the prc reaching 3000fps… it actually falls a good 170-200fps short of that number making the rem mag virtually identicle out too 1000 yards. The reason they want to hit the 3000fps mark was to out run the 6.8 western which it doesn’t
Ryan, something tells me the recoil difference between the two is due to less powder in the PRC. If I remember correctly you said there’s a 20gr difference between the two. But only a 10gr difference in bullet weight.
Own one of each and shoot whatever u want on any given day. As for me, sticking with the RemMag until ammo selection improves for the PRC and the price comes down
The opening statements pretty much sums it all up. Bought one in 83 I guess its been forty years whew where did all the time go. 🦌 deer season is in and ole Betsy is still hanging on the wall ready to go. I jump back and forth between 7x57 and 7 mm rem mag for whitetail. You guys help me decide today 7 mag it is.
You guys are awesome! I thought you were going to be hornady fan boys but you proved me wrong. I have a custom 7 rem mag Tikka was considering changing to a prc. I was looking for support on the switch and you killed it!!! My rem mag has never failed me so I guess I stick with it. Thanks for saving me money.
The problem is their parameters. They should be weighted, putting higher value on different parameters based on the shooter needs. Average hunter, 7 rem mag all day, extreme long range 7 prc. They also put way too much importance on penetration and do not even care about frontal service area or hydro shock.
They look at wound canals and penetration. There is no difference in frontal area or hydrostatic or hydraulic shock between the 2. It's the same diameter and speeds dude. The wound canals are strikingly similar, and penetration was pretty much the only difference here. Look at the other comparisons if you want to see them look closer at wound canals differences, but this one is going to be almost identical between the 2.
The 7mm Weatherby Magnum still kicks some serious butt with downrange power. It is probably the most undervalued, mid-range cartridge you can use for North American big game.
I have a 7 PRC. It shoots great out to 650 yards at local range. Ammo isn't hard to find. I've seen it in 3 big box retailers in the last 2 months and online. No knocks on 7 rem mag. Just figured I'd get the updated version. Figured it would be a great round for western game.
The problem with this entire podcast is the 7 PRC doesn't produce anywhere near its box velocities. I personally tested a 22" barrel 7mm PRC with the factory Precision Hunter 175 ELDX. The average velocity was 2805fps by LabRadar... Not 3000 fps like the box says. Let that sink in. I know 2 other people that tested with 24 and 26" barrels. They got 2840 and 2875fps respectively. I also personally own and loaded a 7 Rem Mag with a 28" barrel and throated long to accommodate a 175gr bullet at 3.590" COAL and hit 3180fps! When treated equally, the 7 PRC can't compete with a 7 Rem Mag, and it's not close. It's still a fine cartridge. But the hype of it and downplay of the 7 Rem mag is not only untrue but it's nauseating.
Yeah I have yet to see anyone reaching 3K fps with factory Precision Hunter out of a 24" barrel. Precision Rifle Network averages 2990 with a 29" barrel.
This is like Marc Anthony at Julius Caesar's funeral: "I have not come here to praise Caesar, I've come here to bury him."...we all know how that turned out for the conspirators. 7MMRemMag ain't going' nowhere folks. How many times have they "buried" the 30-06?
That debate on the Freebore is exactly the concept of handloading the rem mag. Use that headspace off the shoulder to stretch it out and use a longer, greater bc bullet and take advantage of the extra powder space.
Contemplating picking up a 7PRC. Ryan, what monolithic bullet would be looking at to handload? I am starting to gather components and was thinking the 168gr Barnes would be a good place to start.
Josh, An excellent question and I suppose it would depend on application! I’m a huge fan of the Barnes lineup, and for a cartridge like 7PRC, I would most likely focus on the 145LRX or 168LRX, and run some numbers on proposed velocities, trajectory, and most importantly, retained velocity on target relative to my expectations/needs for the round. I’d also consider the Hammer lineup, namely the Hammer Hunter and Hammer Hunter Tipped. While I haven’t yet fielded these projectiles on game, they’re getting a fair amount of traction as a reliable and effective projectile, and the workups I’ve done with them on paper have been very promising! Best regards, Ryan
The 280A keeps getting brought into the discussion every time the 7prc gets compared to the 7mm rem Mag. If you are hand loading, you may as well throw the forgotten 280 Remington into the mix. It's a capable round available in the older light weight mountain rifles. My Weatherby Acumark has put a lot of meat on the table .
A year and a half ago I came to the conclusion that bullets in the .270 - .281 diameter range are ballistically perfect. They have the flattest trajectories at the highest velocities with the slowest loss of velocity over distance, with the best penetration and accuracy anyone could ask for of a rifle cartridge. 7mm is as close to perfect as we are humanly capable of making. It gives the perfect package.
Attention: any animal unlucky enough to be hit with either is not going be around long enough to appreciate any minor difference in eithers performance. Dead is dead.
Coming back and watching this a second time and wondering if you guys checked the velocities on the prc. With the velocities they’re seeing with the alternate powder I wonder if that would have had an issue on the gel block results
Ryan reminds me of Jordan Peterson in more ways than one! Everybody has opinions and rectums and both tend to stink. And being an old timer who started shooting a seven millimeter Remington magnum….(I hate hearing sebumremmag)…forty five years ago in a beautiful Sako rifle and hand loaded nearly every round that I fired, I can testify that it truly is like Thor’s hammer. I’ve had many iterations of the the seven millimeter bore….7-08, 7x57, 280, 280 Ackley ad nauseam. And the Remington magnum is king of the hill. The newer PRC is probably a fine round but in reality, just a reinvention of the wheel. The firearm industry reminds me of detergent manufacturers with ‘new and improved’, ‘now with extra cleaning action’ etc. The truth is, they both want to generate new sales. So put it in a new box or case and tell the public, it’s the latest bestest etc. The seven millimeter express was the 280 in a new box but was the same bar of soap. The 7-08 is the ballistic twin of the ancient 7x57….pick your poison. The 6.5 creedless is the 6.5x55 in new duds. The 22creedless is a fast twist 22-250. Nothing wrong with the original offerings, nor any great advantage in the new. But from a marketing standpoint it generates new sales to a younger generation. You can sit back and tell grandpa he’s full of old man’s BS, but if you’ll invest your time and dollars, you’ll see what I’m saying is true. There’s no magic in the new PRC line. Not saying there’s anything wrong with them either. But if you own a seven millimeter Remington magnum and like it, don’t waste your money and trade it for a PRC.
The only people I see benefiting from a PRC over the rem mag are those who don’t reload, or don’t own a 7mm cartridge period. If you love the 7 rem mag and want a bit more, in factory form, get a PRC. No experience hand loader will trade over their 7rm for the PRC.
If the shorter fatter case eases kick why does the 375 ruger kick twice as hard as a 375 H&H?-maybe not twice but the H&H sure doesn't bruise my shoulder like the ruger does
Mark, if you were starting from scratch today, and I offered you identical browning X bolts, your choice between 7PRC or 300 WSM, which would it be? Same question, but this time we're in a make believe world where there is equal factory ammo availability for both.
Tbh I feel like that should be an easy win for the 7 PRC if it's equal factory ammo for both. The 7 PRC has less recoil, better ballistics, but of course not as much going on in terms of bullet selection because .30 cal is so varying.
I’d still choose the 300wsm currently. I like copper bullets and the 7s are 160s, the 30s are 180s. More frontal and expanded diameter, theoretically, and more energy at reasonable hunting ranges. If i were using 180 lead bullets, I’d probably have to lean towards the 7.
Being a 60+ year hunter reloader and gun collector have had many of both and both will do anything you will need done hunting! I hunt with a Sako in 300wsm and it is a hammer without all the recoil in a shorter and lighter rifle and you can reload it 200 Accubonds and it is ALL you will need for any big game in North America!
Co worker just spun up a Tikka in 7 prc subjective recoil I felt was lighter than the rem mag. I would buy a 7 prc before buying the rem mag personally.
7mm rem mag has 10.7 grains more case capacity, if freebore section of your rifle is longer than factory, lets say like 6-8 mm longer, then the 7mm rem mag is completely in different category than 7 prc, it is actually pretty close to 28 nosler.
For the felt recoil I may be mistaken but I believe I read that the higher the velocity then the better a brake can work so perhaps if the prc is going faster that could be a reason. Maybe take the brakes off and compare as well.
The big 7 is a better all around deer/elk rifle then the 300 but if I were just hunting elk then I use one of my many 300’s! I have many of both and for really big muleys the 7 is great with a lot less recoil but for sheer punch the 300 with 200 grain bullets is perfection when hunting elk or bigger game😳
I just bought a tikka in 7mm rem mag. I was looking for something a little less recoil than my 300 win mag. I love the belted mags. The ballistic charts are very close.
Not enough gain to make me want to change. I love my 7mm rem mag. It still has better expansion than the cx bullets tested ,with a 160 Sierra Game king boat tail. At 700 yards. But I do like the new copper bullets, they leave far less meat damage for some reason . I shot a big buck a couple years ago with a 6.5 Grendel loaded with 120 GMX copper and I hit it in the shoulder big bone broke it then a rib bone then another rib bone on the other side ,and the skin cought the bullet. And to my surprise the meat around the wound wasn't all shock damaged ,bloody at all., like maybe one inch larger than the pullet hole. But that is all my experience with the cx bullets.
The PRC will never reach the level of market penetration that the 7 RM has, therefor it will never die. New cartridges are introduced not to fill a need, but to sell rifles and ammo.
I own both and am comfortable shooting either one in most situations however given a choice I am likely to gravitate to the 7mm PRC. I am considering rebarrelling one of my M70 Supergrades in 7mm PRC.
Once a Ferrari always a Ferrari…might be Miami Vice Ferrari, but still… Ryan, Weatherby is offering really well made factory 280ai ammo now, so for guys that like that cartridge but could never find good factory ammo, that might breathe a little life into it. It’s seems like they’re fans and onboard with the cartridge. They’re loading the hammer bullets in it as well, which would be a great choice. I do think ammo availability is an important metric. I understand what you guys are saying about not needing as many choices, if the available choices are ideal. The difficult part is, different gun shops or big box stores carry different brands…so availability can be important in those regards. I do think you’ll see less expensive options for the PRC in the future, but maybe not…that would be like seeing 28 Nosler federal Powershok…probably won’t see that one, ever.
I also would like to see performance results at longer ranges, obviously outside. In that situation, the 7 PRC will smack that backside of the 7 RM. Adam at Who Tee Who did a drop chart on a number of cartridges including 7 RM and 7 PRC to illustrate his point. Out to almost 500 yards, with the .308 being the worst, most of the cartridges people use are within an inch or so of drop. Past 500 yards, the 7 PRC shines brightly. Since so many people have hunted whitetail with 7-08 and 7 RM, it can obviously do that and the short range of whitetail is no reason to leave it at home. I have seen elk taken with 7 RM and I know the 7 PRC can do that, too. A great and all-around rifle. As well as good at long range. Adam said as much. Even though he got a 7 PRC (two of them), he may sell one of them and will still hunt with his 7 RM. Until this year, my rifles were all .308s. I never had a 7 before, never had a standard long action with a technically magnum round. Until I got the 7 PRC. And it is shooting very well with the Precision Hunter 175 gr ELD-X. Exactly as Ryan said. A turnkey "off the shelf" rifle that shoots great with factory ammo. And that is because, I think, the design and SAAMI spec. The minimal free bore requirement is such that any factory has to build a precision rifle. You can't have different COALs, so ammo companies have to be careful. And now Federal is making a 175 gr expanding hunting load. 7 PRC is perfect for me and anyone new to the 7s, long actions, or rifles that have good performance over distance. But if you have a 7 RM, you may not need a 7 PRC. But I know some are going to get one because "reasons." I don't think that is the only market for the rifle. People have hotrodded 7 RM and even .243 for decades. but that did not stop the 6.5 CM from taking off and taking over. In fact, I am willing to bet some lunch money that it is going to keep outselling the 6.5 PRC even though the 6.5 PRC might have better specs in some says. People are still shooting .300 WM even .300 PRC could win hands down.
The one true statement that sums up this entire conversation is IF you're loading for 7 rem mag, there's nothing the prc can do that the rem mag can't. 175 grain berger elite hunter with a bc of .656 and a velocity of 2975-3000 fps? With accuracy of .22 inch group out of my sako S20.... tell me again how the 7 prc is superior ballistically to that? 🤔
I built my 7 to do what the prc does years before it came out nowadays the prc offering save a lot of time of the reloading bench with time limited I definitely plan to switch someday.
The last box of Hornaday ammo would not feed in my factory rifles so it’s all about putting out lots of ammo not quality to put the other ammo factory’s under pressure to product PRC ammo🤔🤮
In 1980, a 175 grain load in a 7 mm Rem Mag would take nearly anything on the planet out to 1200 yd if you did your homework and had the equipment to deliver the goods. And it wasn't that difficult to do so. With a little bit tighter chamber that they didn't start doing until the 6.5 Creedmoor. You would do the same with the seven mag as you have now done with the PRC construct that is where we went from the Thousand to 1200 yd to 1500 yd capability. Tightening up the chamber was the last huge step in ultimate accuracy what the next step will be, who knows. When you talk about case design, now you understand why the acma improved concept was such a boon to not only getting a little bit better performance, but also getting brass that didn't destroy itself as fast. And the people who complained oh well that'll never feed properly. I've never seen an acne improved firearms that had a problem feeding. Please admit that the reason we have these cartridges today is because of Mr Ackley
🕵️♂️ Ryan, It Is Time To Pull Out The 280 AI For a Comparison! It Would Be Good To Try And Use The Same Exact Bullets (Make and Weight) For Each 7mm in Your Comparison (Apples to Apples) Too! 🤷♂️
The 7 mike mike mag was used for years by USSS snipers. They claimed 700 yard range in custom Remington 700s with hand loaded ammo from Remington. Yes, HAND loaded from Remington.
People talking about 7RM and 7PRC as deer cartridges are just ridiculous. It is way more than you need for deer and unless you have a perfect broadside shot the hydrostatic shock and massive exit wound is going to waste a ton of meat. Yet there are all these people acting as if they take 1/4 mile shots at whitetail on the regular and need something like the 7RM. I have hunted mule deer across the west my entire adult life and I can count on just a couple of fingers all the shots at 300+ yards I've ever made. If you really want a 7mm deer rifle then 7mm-08 is the perfect cartridge. Light recoiling, short action and more than effective on deer even big western mulies out to 500 yards. 7RM, 7PRC, 300WM and the like are Elk cartridges, and even then they are unnecessary unless you are taking very long distance shots. Every Elk I've taken has been with a 30-06, .308 or .270, and they all went down to a single well placed shot. Midwesterners and southerners sitting in a stand shooting whitetail at 100-150 yards with a magnum seem like they are trying to compensate for something. As I said before, it is just ridiculous.
Mark, when you mention the recoil you also mention that both rifles had brakes. My theory is that the more efficient powder column of the PRC may have helped the brake to be more efficient in its recoil reduction. I see a kind of similar thing between my personal 5.56 AR vs my Grendel that i used to have. The Grendel actually shot softer even with both rifles having the same muzzle brake design and the grendel shooting a bullet more than twice as heavy. Granted there's a much bigger disparity in tegards to velocity and bullet diameter, but i think brakes work better on more efficient cartridges.
Within 2 years the 7mm PRC will have greater selection. Now that the 7mm rem mag is being offered in 1&8 twist rate it may save it for those who feel a loyalty to the cartridge. The one cartridge that this will significantly effect in my opinion is the 6.8 western. It hasn't really established itself because the launch was untimely. 6.8 is a great cartridge but if you ask me the 7mm PRC is better on all fronts. If I'm choosing a modern cartridge, new rifle,it's 7mm PRC over 6.8 western.
I agree, the 6.8 Western really is fantastic. unfortunately, i don't see it ever becoming a cartridge with more than a couple factory offerings. if you hop on ammoseek right now and compare 6.8W and 7prc, there's already 2.5x more listings for 7prc ammo, and the disparity is only gonna get bigger. i kinda hope the Army's new 277 Fury round catches on, as i really like the idea of basically having a 6.5creed with the lower pressure ammo, and then having the high pressure stuff be about 6.5prc energy levels, all in one gun.
as of right now this 7mm prc vs rem mag, is the same comparison of 270wsm vs 6.8western, there almost identical right now a hand loader can make them the same and perform the same given either faster speed or heavier bullets. i'm kinda more on the band wagon that less is more as in less weight=faster fps= less drop= +pounds of energy while less recoil.
Ryan, you sound like a closet lover of the 7mm rem mag. A helpful observation regarding forecasting the future is "Making predictions is risky, especially if they are about the future." I enjoy what you all do.
For a old tundra and 7mm rem mag owner. I can relate for the analogy. Edit: let say tacoma trd Pro VS tacoma Trailhunter.... 👀same but different. 7 prc can do it "all around" and maybe more efficiency on most part. For what people are using it usualy. Maybe for the more niché and for precise purpose this new one has his place. Let see later.
I own a Sako 85 in a 300 WSM. Love the rifle and the round. However, looking at the ballistics, the 7 mm prc does everything the 300 WSM does and better. @@edwardabrams4972
Why didn't you shoot or use numbers from the Hornady 162 Grain ELD-X Box in the 7mm Rem Mag? It has a G1 Ballistic Coefficient of 0.613 at MZ speed of 2940 fps. Your numbers would be so close they wouldn't matter.
I didnt have either, but i just got a 7 PRC. I think it will be better to reload (without the belt), its a bit more efficient, and i like the factory fast twist and factory ammo. I think either would be fantastic, but since i was buying a brand new, i decided to go with a newer cartridge
You poor poor man🤔 not only did you pay too much for a Remington twin with some makeup on it but you are forcing your self to handload because ammo will be too much cost and not being able to find it🤮😳😂
I never got the whole ammo is too expensive idea. Yeah you're not going to get cheap crappy ball ammo but that's not what I want the rifle for... I shoot hunting ammo through it which cost similar to every other big game caliber hunting ammo
The PRC is better for it's chamber tolerances and long bullet use. Many 7mm Rem Mags will do the same as Ryan states for the most part. I shoot 175 gr. Accubond LR's in mine with a 1:8 twist and 5R rifling and it loves it. I have set the bullet out to maximum length to clear the magazine and even though Hornady says you cannot get accuracy from the Rem mag with long bullets, I've proven to myself I can. Some day I may buy a PRC anyway, but right now, I have lots of Jamison brass and bullets, so going to stick with it. ;) The PRC is limited as it doesn't shoot lighter bullets well. My rem mag is set up for out ot 1500 yards though also, so it's not really any improvement for long range.
7mm-08 is a lead balloon?? I turned around from my reloading bench and gasped! Ryan how could you, after all the respect I've gained for you 😭 I received a Remington 700 CDL in 7mm-08 on my 12th birthday and I've used the cartridge for well over half my life, from deer to predator to matches. I've shot steel at 1000 yards and deer at 10. Winchester honored it by placing it on their StaBall 6.5 powder canister, and my match load is that powder under a 162 ELD-M. Your episode DEFENDING the 7mm-08 from a couple years ago is one of my favorites. It may not be the most popular but it is still a favorite for many. I just sent my dad 40 rounds for the WISCONSIN deer season, which I grew up hunting every year but now unfortunately live too far away. The 7mm-08 is here to stay 😤
The differences in wind drift are not nearly as much as so many guys are touting. Under 400 yards is really a chip shot. But even out to 800 yards we are only talking a few inches of difference with some decent wind. The 7 PRC using a 175 ELD-X has 48 inches of wind drift while the 7 Rem Mag using a 162 ELD-X has 55 inches of wind drift. Those numbers are with a 15 mile per hour cross wind. Seems crazy to make a deal on the difference. I think it is marketing... and Hornady is brilliant at it.
Y'all should do a AR comparable episode 300 black 556 6mm arc 762x39 it's crazy how many of these small cartages are ending up in deer/hunting camp 6.8 SPC as well
I'd say it makes more sense vs a .300 Win Mag or PRC? I mean .28 Nosler can be loaded to fire 180gr to 3200fps and more, whereas the 7-08 is barely able to push them to 2700fps lol. At least the .300 Win Mag can push 225s at that speed.
@@marcmoore4115 exactly I wanna see what the performance is between slow and fast see what the actual difference is I have a 30-378 weatherby that fires extremely fast with my 32 inch barrel
🤔 The Reason Why the Recoil "Felt Softer" On the 7mm prc is Because The True Velocities (Which You Should Be Cronographing) Aren't What is Printed on the Box (Especially For the 7mm PRC)! You Should Also Pull The Bullet and See What Powders Are Being Used For Each, Which Will Influence "Felt Recoil"! 🤪
The PRC family was developed for long range performance with heavier for caliber bullets. And they do that well. Myself being 64 years old, The longest game animal shot I have taken was a hair over 200yds. My 280 Remington in my 1985 Browning A-Bolt loves 160gr class bullets . I have taken from Red Stag down to small pigs and everything in between with one load. My 280 has worked exceptionally well over the years for me. I have no need for anything else.
I feel the same about my .308
Great cartridge that Remington just killed with poor marketing! I bought one when they first came out and everything the 270 is with just a little more punch and larger bullets!
@@steveelder5306you have chosen wisely you shall be rewarded with better ammo availability and cheaper to shoot and less recoil in a shorter length rifle! My father got the pre64 in 308 in the featherweight and he took a truck loads of deer and elk with it using the Nosler Partition bullet!
The key statement in this video was “7 PRC is the turnkey solution”. In the hands of a proficient, experienced handloader, the 7RM will absolutely do everything that the PRC will and maybe a tiny bit more because of a slight advantage in case capacity. Same with 300WM vs 300PRC. The PRC cartridges are just a smart way of getting the performance of a handloader (almost) in a factory offering. They are very cool cartridges, especially for the non-handloader.
Maybe, maybe not. I do believe that the new 7mm PRC has a higher-pressure rating than the 7mm Rem Mag. Not having a belt and having a better shoulder are plusses. But I think it depends on individual rifles and what they like barrel length and more. Velocities don't make good groups. It's a combination of factors and to get accuracy may not be the higher velocity.
@@garrytalley8009 You better send sammi down the road in this conversation!!!! Your showing your ignorance
@@scottinohio701 Really? Maybe you don't read so well.
These are my favorite when you get mark and Ryan talking about a subject and just having good time with it
I think people would be interested in seeing you guys shoot some gel at a few different ranges. It would show why ethical hunting ranges are very important and how bullet expansion drops off when velocity drops.
Time for a new 500 yard range.
This.
Then you get to see which one is a better cartridge! All this talking is making me tired I just like yo see results and not all the BS even though Ryan has a head full of knowledge the truth is in the results😳 60+ years of hunting reloading and collecting bolt rifles and there is always to much BS in most gun videos and not showing the end results to back up the actual results on game!
Hey there I have a 7mm-08 and I count it among the finest deer cartridges ever made. Super easy shooting, short action and it hits every bit as hard as my 270 does, my one and only issue with it is that for some reason that Browning A-Bolt HATES all factory ammo (3-5" groups no kidding) so I have to reload for it, but my 140gr Gamekings are hitting well under 1" every time. I own several deer rifles and the only one that really competes with the 7mm-08 for the perfect deer rifle is the 6.5x55 which is just perfection with modern loads.
My factory A Bolt shoots 140gr TSX under an inch with no issues. Never had an issue with any 140gr factory loads for that matter. Sounds like you need to check scope mounts or try a PROVEN optic on it to verify.
@@sneakybow1 If it were an issue with the optic or mounts (both of which are quality units) my handloads would not be shooting well below MOA, I have handloaded for dozens of rifles over the years and my A-bolt is by FAR the strangest, but as long as I got it shooting good I don't care too much.
I found the same thing in my A-bolt but in my X-bolt it takes a larger range of different ammo and shoots tighter groups in more factory ammo!
@@sneakybow1 if handloads shoot well, its not optic or mounts, its just picky. it happens
I'd love to see a gel test at 600yds with these two cartridges. I have faith in Ryan and Mark to make the shot.
I say they'll make it in 1 in 3. They'll need at least 3 shots.
You don't need the yardage. Hand load down to the 600yd velocity.
Have enjoyed Ryan’s words on so many podcasts, but as a older handloader , I’m surprised, and was surprised the first time I heard his thoughts on the 7mm rem mag. Especially hearing Ryan’s knowledge and respect of cartridge history. Oh well, guess we all have personal strong opinions.
Keep up the great content fellas
I mean it's pretty dogshit.
He talked about 7 rem mag on their old 7mm-08 10-minute talk…compared the two…threw shade at the rem mag then too. I don’t own a 7 rem mag, probably never will but I respect it as a cartridge.
I know multiple professional gunsmiths that all say they can get more out of the 7RM handloading than they can the 7PRC. The PRC is basically an off-the-shelf custom rifle for lack of a better explanation. Longer throat and high twist rate. If your 7RM can accommodate seating the bullet out a bit... you will get more out of it than the PRC. I actually love all of the PRC cartridges... but they aren't as fast as the advertisers say they are :)
It also has to do with the PRC being developed with new powders, not much room for improvement, and the rem mag being developed with previously used powders. Leaving a lot on the table for the rem mag in hand loads.
@@trent57tx Yeah... I have a custom 7Mag w/ 1:8 twist. I seat the bullets out a bit and I am well over 3000 FPS with two different powders and 180 Berger VLDs. A lot of fun!
That section where Mark asks about handloading, I have a slight caveat to add. Being that that throat is a lot longer (which is not a bad thing) in the PRC, you cannot optimize the lighter, more prevalent projectiles on the market in it. In the Rem Mag, you can handle all of the above. That's no bash. Now, I'm tempted to get a custom PRC reamer designed with a Rem Mag throat (because I handload) because it doesn't have a belt to mess around with.
True, but maybe hornadys new eld vt line will fix that. Nothing in 7mm yet, but hopefully they expand the lineup
@@codyboland8109 I was meaning something like the 140 class bonded/monos. Warp speed, light, heavily constructed bullets have their place.
I've shot the 7mmRem mag for 60 years. I've always been able to push the 175's well over 3000fps and 160 over 3100. My newest barrel is an 8 twist and throated long enough to seat them out. If indeed more, I have my 7mm Mashburn Super and a 8mm Mashbrn Super.
Unfortunately, I’m reading lots of guys aren’t getting the advertised velocity of the 7mm PRC. Additionally, hand-loaders are reporting clickers after a couple firings. I personally began experiencing this with my 6.5 PRC.
The 7mm PRC is a move in the right direction, but it isn’t perfect. I really think your first choice in the .280 AI was wise, especially in a custom rifle. I used to shoot .280 AI years ago and I loved it.
What do you mean by "clickers"?
@@biggs8729 because the chamber dimensions vs the cartridge dimensions, there is a stiff “click” at the top of the bolt lift after firing a round. The more times it’s loaded, the worse it gets.
The 7mm and 300 PRCs have along way to go to enjoy the popularity of the 7mm and 300 mags. While I haven't had either of the classic magnums for a while now. A ton of folks do. And if your 7mm mag or 300 mag is still putting in the work. Why would a guy reinvent the wheel?
I think Ryan is right though. The advent of 7mm PRC Power point/Corelokt/Whitetail line of cup and core offerings, will certainly help more folks to jump on board. I just do not have a need for a long range monster where I hunt. So neither hold much interest for myself.
That PRC must be pretty great! Isn’t that the caliber Aram in Utah was using so didn’t need to range his 725 yard pot shot on the other hunters deer?
7 PRC fixes a non-existent problem. Won't be exchanging my 7 mag anytime soon.
Yes if already own the Rem Mag can get alternative factory or custom loads and not lose much from the PRC choice. Up to deer then better options for more enjoyable hunting.
I shoot and hunt with the 7mm mag and the 7PRC dose solve a problem with the 7mm mag. The factory twist rate is too slow for heavy long 7mm bullets. The belt is and has always been unnecessary and a bad way to set head space. Am I getting rid of my 7mm mag no, but if I did not have a 7mm I would get the 7PRC now.
@@mangrumpyold1871I understand the 7mm prc has some issues. Excessive fouling after 40 shots. Brass wears out fast. Barrel is down to around 1300 shots before bore is shot out.
Not enough difference to create another cartridge. If you need a more powerful 7 mm with more recoil then get a .28 Nosler. The 7mm PRC is a great cartridge but not needed. Great video . I shoot 140 grain bullets out of my 7mm rem mag but I only hunt deer . I have never had a deer get away after being hit and my longest shot was 430ish . I guess it all depends what you'll be using your gun for if you are chasing larger animals I can see using a heavier bullet but for even large deer people have been killing them cleanly for almost a century with 130gr 270 Winchesters. Deer didn't all of a sudden get immune to light fast well placed bullets.
I would have said that a few years ago, but then, very few people were shooting their hunting rifles at targets 1000 yards to a mile. For the vast majority of hunting situations, the 7mm Rem Mag is fine, if not more than needed. The chamber design of the 7mm Rem Mag is very good and similar to modern cartridges (unlike the Winchester Mags). If you plan to frequently shoot at 400 yards or more, though, the reduced wind drift of the PRC makes it the better choice.
The 7mm PRC isn't about hunting.
@@ericthered7226it’s about selling rifles and selling ammo
@@jfess1911 the 7mm is literally the win mag designs necked to 7mm, the only one that's different is the 300 with the short neck.
@@madwe2269 The chamber design in front of the case is very different. The Win Mags use the old-style single taper, forcing cone design into the rifling. The cone starts at .315" diameter. Winchester continued using this old design until very recently.
The 7mm Rem Mag uses the modern "match chamber" design with a short tube of snug freebore before the taper into the rifling. The freebore is only .0005" larger than the bullet diameter and ensures that the bullet is aligned with the bore so that the rifling is engraved evenly. That way the bullet spins around its axis and doesn't have unpredictable lateral jump as it leaves the barrel.
The standard SAAMI chamber used in the Winchester Magnums allows the bullet to start into the rifling at a slight angle, leading to the rifling being a little deeper in some places than others. This can create a slight imbalance as the bullet spins rapidly in the bore, leading to a lateral jump as it leaves the muzzle. Finding a load that shoots very accurately is typically more difficult.
When the 300 Win Mag is used for precision shooting, like by the US Military, custom match chambers are used. The 7mm Rem Mag often keeps its standard chamber.
Unfortunately, these guys are wrong about the tolerances. If they look at the SAAMI specifications, the freebore diameter of the Rem Mag is actually slightly tighter ( by .0001") than the PRC. If the rifles made had added slop, it was the fault of the barrel makers. The SAAMI spec of max tolerance, + .002" is the same for both. The 7mm Rem Mag was essentially a SAAMI-approved match chamber and well ahead of its time.
Although Hornady said in a podcast that the tolerance really should be higher, they did not include that info on the drawing sent to SAAMI.
The difference is counting on the prc reaching 3000fps… it actually falls a good 170-200fps short of that number making the rem mag virtually identicle out too 1000 yards. The reason they want to hit the 3000fps mark was to out run the 6.8 western which it doesn’t
Ryan, something tells me the recoil difference between the two is due to less powder in the PRC. If I remember correctly you said there’s a 20gr difference between the two. But only a 10gr difference in bullet weight.
Own one of each and shoot whatever u want on any given day. As for me, sticking with the RemMag until ammo selection improves for the PRC and the price comes down
Really ❤ listening to you guys and usually agree with 97.5% of what Ryan says but, Mark is right 7mm08 not a lead balloon!
If Ryan doesn’t like belted magnums how can he love Weatherby calibers🤔😳
I’m not particularly fond of belted mags either, but the 257 weatherby scratches me right where I itch.
Would like to see 280 ai vs 7prc
If the 7 wby mag came out today it would be a lot more popular and is a great cartridge if you could just find ammo!
I would like to see the 300 WBY with the 130 grain Barnes TSX shot into gel blocks
The opening statements pretty much sums it all up. Bought one in 83 I guess its been forty years whew where did all the time go. 🦌 deer season is in and ole Betsy is still hanging on the wall ready to go. I jump back and forth between 7x57 and 7 mm rem mag for whitetail. You guys help me decide today 7 mag it is.
You guys are awesome! I thought you were going to be hornady fan boys but you proved me wrong. I have a custom 7 rem mag Tikka was considering changing to a prc. I was looking for support on the switch and you killed it!!! My rem mag has never failed me so I guess I stick with it. Thanks for saving me money.
The problem is their parameters. They should be weighted, putting higher value on different parameters based on the shooter needs. Average hunter, 7 rem mag all day, extreme long range 7 prc. They also put way too much importance on penetration and do not even care about frontal service area or hydro shock.
They look at wound canals and penetration. There is no difference in frontal area or hydrostatic or hydraulic shock between the 2. It's the same diameter and speeds dude. The wound canals are strikingly similar, and penetration was pretty much the only difference here. Look at the other comparisons if you want to see them look closer at wound canals differences, but this one is going to be almost identical between the 2.
The 7mm Weatherby Magnum still kicks some serious butt with downrange power. It is probably the most undervalued, mid-range cartridge you can use for North American big game.
I have a 7 PRC. It shoots great out to 650 yards at local range. Ammo isn't hard to find. I've seen it in 3 big box retailers in the last 2 months and online. No knocks on 7 rem mag. Just figured I'd get the updated version. Figured it would be a great round for western game.
My 7mm08 shoots great out to 1000. Do yall just buy stuff because you can? I really dont get this consuming just to be a consumer. Sheepish behaviour.
The problem with this entire podcast is the 7 PRC doesn't produce anywhere near its box velocities. I personally tested a 22" barrel 7mm PRC with the factory Precision Hunter 175 ELDX. The average velocity was 2805fps by LabRadar... Not 3000 fps like the box says.
Let that sink in.
I know 2 other people that tested with 24 and 26" barrels. They got 2840 and 2875fps respectively.
I also personally own and loaded a 7 Rem Mag with a 28" barrel and throated long to accommodate a 175gr bullet at 3.590" COAL and hit 3180fps!
When treated equally, the 7 PRC can't compete with a 7 Rem Mag, and it's not close.
It's still a fine cartridge. But the hype of it and downplay of the 7 Rem mag is not only untrue but it's nauseating.
Yeah I have yet to see anyone reaching 3K fps with factory Precision Hunter out of a 24" barrel. Precision Rifle Network averages 2990 with a 29" barrel.
With R26 you could get to 3000
What scope do you recommend for my 7mm Rem Magnum?? This would be my first vortex scope ??
PRC copper almost looked over expanded. I bet they engineered the optimum expansion velocity for a greater distance than 100.
This is like Marc Anthony at Julius Caesar's funeral: "I have not come here to praise Caesar, I've come here to bury him."...we all know how that turned out for the conspirators. 7MMRemMag ain't going' nowhere folks. How many times have they "buried" the 30-06?
I built my 7RSAUM a year too early. Had 7prc been out, that would have been the smart route.
I would hate to think of 7mm 08 as a led balloon anymore than a 25-06 or 30-30, all of which work every well in their given areas of use.
7mm-08 is popular enough to be available at Walmart, its certainly not a lead balloon.
I agree. 30-30 with 170 grain power points did really well for me hunting thick woods in missouri where I was only shooting 50-75yards
When do we see the 6.5 BC vs. the 6.5 PRC?
18:10 😮 I agree, that's why I just bought a 7mm Rem Mag!
Wish you would have compared the 7prc to some popular wildcats like the STW
For Whitetails in south Mississippi my 7mm RM has been doing great for last 30 years. Are there better very possible. But I have no complaints
That debate on the Freebore is exactly the concept of handloading the rem mag. Use that headspace off the shoulder to stretch it out and use a longer, greater bc bullet and take advantage of the extra powder space.
I'm going to be honest... that is terrible expansion out of the 7mm PRC 160 gr CX bullet. And that is at 100 yards...
Contemplating picking up a 7PRC. Ryan, what monolithic bullet would be looking at to handload?
I am starting to gather components and was thinking the 168gr Barnes would be a good place to start.
Josh,
An excellent question and I suppose it would depend on application! I’m a huge fan of the Barnes lineup, and for a cartridge like 7PRC, I would most likely focus on the 145LRX or 168LRX, and run some numbers on proposed velocities, trajectory, and most importantly, retained velocity on target relative to my expectations/needs for the round. I’d also consider the Hammer lineup, namely the Hammer Hunter and Hammer Hunter Tipped. While I haven’t yet fielded these projectiles on game, they’re getting a fair amount of traction as a reliable and effective projectile, and the workups I’ve done with them on paper have been very promising!
Best regards,
Ryan
The 280A keeps getting brought into the discussion every time the 7prc gets compared to the 7mm rem Mag. If you are hand loading, you may as well throw the forgotten 280 Remington into the mix. It's a capable round available in the older light weight mountain rifles. My Weatherby Acumark has put a lot of meat on the table .
A year and a half ago I came to the conclusion that bullets in the .270 - .281 diameter range are ballistically perfect. They have the flattest trajectories at the highest velocities with the slowest loss of velocity over distance, with the best penetration and accuracy anyone could ask for of a rifle cartridge.
7mm is as close to perfect as we are humanly capable of making. It gives the perfect package.
Another Great episode guys! Keep these coming. Lead Balloon ... .307 winchester
Attention: any animal unlucky enough to be hit with either is not going be around long enough to appreciate any minor difference in eithers performance. Dead is dead.
Coming back and watching this a second time and wondering if you guys checked the velocities on the prc. With the velocities they’re seeing with the alternate powder I wonder if that would have had an issue on the gel block results
Ryan reminds me of Jordan Peterson in more ways than one! Everybody has opinions and rectums and both tend to stink. And being an old timer who started shooting a seven millimeter Remington magnum….(I hate hearing sebumremmag)…forty five years ago in a beautiful Sako rifle and hand loaded nearly every round that I fired, I can testify that it truly is like Thor’s hammer. I’ve had many iterations of the the seven millimeter bore….7-08, 7x57, 280, 280 Ackley ad nauseam. And the Remington magnum is king of the hill. The newer PRC is probably a fine round but in reality, just a reinvention of the wheel. The firearm industry reminds me of detergent manufacturers with ‘new and improved’, ‘now with extra cleaning action’ etc. The truth is, they both want to generate new sales. So put it in a new box or case and tell the public, it’s the latest bestest etc. The seven millimeter express was the 280 in a new box but was the same bar of soap. The 7-08 is the ballistic twin of the ancient 7x57….pick your poison. The 6.5 creedless is the 6.5x55 in new duds. The 22creedless is a fast twist 22-250. Nothing wrong with the original offerings, nor any great advantage in the new. But from a marketing standpoint it generates new sales to a younger generation. You can sit back and tell grandpa he’s full of old man’s BS, but if you’ll invest your time and dollars, you’ll see what I’m saying is true. There’s no magic in the new PRC line. Not saying there’s anything wrong with them either. But if you own a seven millimeter Remington magnum and like it, don’t waste your money and trade it for a PRC.
The only people I see benefiting from a PRC over the rem mag are those who don’t reload, or don’t own a 7mm cartridge period. If you love the 7 rem mag and want a bit more, in factory form, get a PRC. No experience hand loader will trade over their 7rm for the PRC.
If the shorter fatter case eases kick why does the 375 ruger kick twice as hard as a 375 H&H?-maybe not twice but the H&H sure doesn't bruise my shoulder like the ruger does
Mark, if you were starting from scratch today, and I offered you identical browning X bolts, your choice between 7PRC or 300 WSM, which would it be?
Same question, but this time we're in a make believe world where there is equal factory ammo availability for both.
Tbh I feel like that should be an easy win for the 7 PRC if it's equal factory ammo for both. The 7 PRC has less recoil, better ballistics, but of course not as much going on in terms of bullet selection because .30 cal is so varying.
I’d still choose the 300wsm currently. I like copper bullets and the 7s are 160s, the 30s are 180s. More frontal and expanded diameter, theoretically, and more energy at reasonable hunting ranges. If i were using 180 lead bullets, I’d probably have to lean towards the 7.
Being a 60+ year hunter reloader and gun collector have had many of both and both will do anything you will need done hunting! I hunt with a Sako in 300wsm and it is a hammer without all the recoil in a shorter and lighter rifle and you can reload it 200 Accubonds and it is ALL you will need for any big game in North America!
Co worker just spun up a Tikka in 7 prc subjective recoil I felt was lighter than the rem mag. I would buy a 7 prc before buying the rem mag personally.
7mm rem mag has 10.7 grains more case capacity, if freebore section of your rifle is longer than factory, lets say like 6-8 mm longer, then the 7mm rem mag is completely in different category than 7 prc, it is actually pretty close to 28 nosler.
Chronograph the loads. I’m curious on the actual felt recoil from the rifles.
if i didn't already have, and was heavily invested in, a 7RM, i'd quite likely be in the 7PRC camp.
For the felt recoil I may be mistaken but I believe I read that the higher the velocity then the better a brake can work so perhaps if the prc is going faster that could be a reason. Maybe take the brakes off and compare as well.
7rem mag is superior to the 300win mag. Favorite cartridge ever!
The big 7 is a better all around deer/elk rifle then the 300 but if I were just hunting elk then I use one of my many 300’s! I have many of both and for really big muleys the 7 is great with a lot less recoil but for sheer punch the 300 with 200 grain bullets is perfection when hunting elk or bigger game😳
I just bought a tikka in 7mm rem mag. I was looking for something a little less recoil than my 300 win mag. I love the belted mags. The ballistic charts are very close.
Not enough gain to make me want to change. I love my 7mm rem mag. It still has better expansion than the cx bullets tested ,with a 160 Sierra Game king boat tail. At 700 yards. But I do like the new copper bullets, they leave far less meat damage for some reason . I shot a big buck a couple years ago with a 6.5 Grendel loaded with 120 GMX copper and I hit it in the shoulder big bone broke it then a rib bone then another rib bone on the other side ,and the skin cought the bullet. And to my surprise the meat around the wound wasn't all shock damaged ,bloody at all., like maybe one inch larger than the pullet hole. But that is all my experience with the cx bullets.
How about a talk on the 7prc vs the 28 Nosler
For better or for worse the older designs tend to feed more reliably though. That squarish shoulder can get hung up more easily.
Surely its the powder type rather than the column shape itself
Fast vs slow burn would be more likely to feel different
The PRC will never reach the level of market penetration that the 7 RM has, therefor it will never die. New cartridges are introduced not to fill a need, but to sell rifles and ammo.
I own both and am comfortable shooting either one in most situations however given a choice I am likely to gravitate to the 7mm PRC. I am considering rebarrelling one of my M70 Supergrades in 7mm PRC.
7mm08 amazing cartridge. One of best every made.
Once a Ferrari always a Ferrari…might be Miami Vice Ferrari, but still…
Ryan, Weatherby is offering really well made factory 280ai ammo now, so for guys that like that cartridge but could never find good factory ammo, that might breathe a little life into it. It’s seems like they’re fans and onboard with the cartridge. They’re loading the hammer bullets in it as well, which would be a great choice.
I do think ammo availability is an important metric. I understand what you guys are saying about not needing as many choices, if the available choices are ideal. The difficult part is, different gun shops or big box stores carry different brands…so availability can be important in those regards. I do think you’ll see less expensive options for the PRC in the future, but maybe not…that would be like seeing 28 Nosler federal Powershok…probably won’t see that one, ever.
Great podcast and video. But ugh, 7mm-08 is not a lead ballon !!!
Keep the content coming.
The 7prc doesn't kill the 7 mag, it kills the 280 Ackley.
I also would like to see performance results at longer ranges, obviously outside. In that situation, the 7 PRC will smack that backside of the 7 RM.
Adam at Who Tee Who did a drop chart on a number of cartridges including 7 RM and 7 PRC to illustrate his point. Out to almost 500 yards, with the .308 being the worst, most of the cartridges people use are within an inch or so of drop. Past 500 yards, the 7 PRC shines brightly.
Since so many people have hunted whitetail with 7-08 and 7 RM, it can obviously do that and the short range of whitetail is no reason to leave it at home. I have seen elk taken with 7 RM and I know the 7 PRC can do that, too. A great and all-around rifle. As well as good at long range.
Adam said as much. Even though he got a 7 PRC (two of them), he may sell one of them and will still hunt with his 7 RM.
Until this year, my rifles were all .308s. I never had a 7 before, never had a standard long action with a technically magnum round. Until I got the 7 PRC. And it is shooting very well with the Precision Hunter 175 gr ELD-X. Exactly as Ryan said. A turnkey "off the shelf" rifle that shoots great with factory ammo. And that is because, I think, the design and SAAMI spec. The minimal free bore requirement is such that any factory has to build a precision rifle. You can't have different COALs, so ammo companies have to be careful. And now Federal is making a 175 gr expanding hunting load.
7 PRC is perfect for me and anyone new to the 7s, long actions, or rifles that have good performance over distance. But if you have a 7 RM, you may not need a 7 PRC. But I know some are going to get one because "reasons."
I don't think that is the only market for the rifle. People have hotrodded 7 RM and even .243 for decades. but that did not stop the 6.5 CM from taking off and taking over. In fact, I am willing to bet some lunch money that it is going to keep outselling the 6.5 PRC even though the 6.5 PRC might have better specs in some says.
People are still shooting .300 WM even .300 PRC could win hands down.
My Savage 110 7 mm Rem shooting 175 grain Nosler Partitions has never left me wanting more gun on Blacktail and Roosevelt Elk.
The one true statement that sums up this entire conversation is IF you're loading for 7 rem mag, there's nothing the prc can do that the rem mag can't. 175 grain berger elite hunter with a bc of .656 and a velocity of 2975-3000 fps? With accuracy of .22 inch group out of my sako S20.... tell me again how the 7 prc is superior ballistically to that? 🤔
Love the cartridge talks!
How about 7prc vs 7 Dakota? I'd also like the same comparison in 30. Cheers
I built my 7 to do what the prc does years before it came out nowadays the prc offering save a lot of time of the reloading bench with time limited I definitely plan to switch someday.
It all comes down to ammo price and availability -- you know it and manufacturing knows it.😮
The last box of Hornaday ammo would not feed in my factory rifles so it’s all about putting out lots of ammo not quality to put the other ammo factory’s under pressure to product PRC ammo🤔🤮
I would think the cartridge that shot all at once over a shorter period of time would have the sharper recoil
In 1980, a 175 grain load in a 7 mm Rem Mag would take nearly anything on the planet out to 1200 yd if you did your homework and had the equipment to deliver the goods. And it wasn't that difficult to do so. With a little bit tighter chamber that they didn't start doing until the 6.5 Creedmoor. You would do the same with the seven mag as you have now done with the PRC construct that is where we went from the Thousand to 1200 yd to 1500 yd capability. Tightening up the chamber was the last huge step in ultimate accuracy what the next step will be, who knows.
When you talk about case design, now you understand why the acma improved concept was such a boon to not only getting a little bit better performance, but also getting brass that didn't destroy itself as fast. And the people who complained oh well that'll never feed properly. I've never seen an acne improved firearms that had a problem feeding. Please admit that the reason we have these cartridges today is because of Mr Ackley
🕵️♂️ Ryan, It Is Time To Pull Out The 280 AI For a Comparison! It Would Be Good To Try And Use The Same Exact Bullets (Make and Weight) For Each 7mm in Your Comparison (Apples to Apples) Too! 🤷♂️
The 7 mike mike mag was used for years by USSS snipers. They claimed 700 yard range in custom Remington 700s with hand loaded ammo from Remington. Yes, HAND loaded from Remington.
People talking about 7RM and 7PRC as deer cartridges are just ridiculous. It is way more than you need for deer and unless you have a perfect broadside shot the hydrostatic shock and massive exit wound is going to waste a ton of meat. Yet there are all these people acting as if they take 1/4 mile shots at whitetail on the regular and need something like the 7RM. I have hunted mule deer across the west my entire adult life and I can count on just a couple of fingers all the shots at 300+ yards I've ever made. If you really want a 7mm deer rifle then 7mm-08 is the perfect cartridge. Light recoiling, short action and more than effective on deer even big western mulies out to 500 yards. 7RM, 7PRC, 300WM and the like are Elk cartridges, and even then they are unnecessary unless you are taking very long distance shots. Every Elk I've taken has been with a 30-06, .308 or .270, and they all went down to a single well placed shot. Midwesterners and southerners sitting in a stand shooting whitetail at 100-150 yards with a magnum seem like they are trying to compensate for something. As I said before, it is just ridiculous.
I think we need to see the test that most of us are waiting for when crowning "the king" - 7mm Rem Mag vs 300 Win Mag... we look forward to it!
Block of wood in front of the gel to simulate bone. Curious to see the CX expansion at lower velocities.
Mark, when you mention the recoil you also mention that both rifles had brakes.
My theory is that the more efficient powder column of the PRC may have helped the brake to be more efficient in its recoil reduction.
I see a kind of similar thing between my personal 5.56 AR vs my Grendel that i used to have. The Grendel actually shot softer even with both rifles having the same muzzle brake design and the grendel shooting a bullet more than twice as heavy.
Granted there's a much bigger disparity in tegards to velocity and bullet diameter, but i think brakes work better on more efficient cartridges.
You make an excellent point!
I hypothesis the shoulder angle of the brass creates a spike in pressure on ignition which would equal a sharper recoil pulse.
Within 2 years the 7mm PRC will have greater selection. Now that the 7mm rem mag is being offered in 1&8 twist rate it may save it for those who feel a loyalty to the cartridge. The one cartridge that this will significantly effect in my opinion is the 6.8 western. It hasn't really established itself because the launch was untimely. 6.8 is a great cartridge but if you ask me the 7mm PRC is better on all fronts. If I'm choosing a modern cartridge, new rifle,it's 7mm PRC over 6.8 western.
I agree, the 6.8 Western really is fantastic. unfortunately, i don't see it ever becoming a cartridge with more than a couple factory offerings. if you hop on ammoseek right now and compare 6.8W and 7prc, there's already 2.5x more listings for 7prc ammo, and the disparity is only gonna get bigger.
i kinda hope the Army's new 277 Fury round catches on, as i really like the idea of basically having a 6.5creed with the lower pressure ammo, and then having the high pressure stuff be about 6.5prc energy levels, all in one gun.
as of right now this 7mm prc vs rem mag, is the same comparison of 270wsm vs 6.8western, there almost identical right now a hand loader can make them the same and perform the same given either faster speed or heavier bullets. i'm kinda more on the band wagon that less is more as in less weight=faster fps= less drop= +pounds of energy while less recoil.
Ryan, you sound like a closet lover of the 7mm rem mag. A helpful observation regarding forecasting the future is "Making predictions is risky, especially if they are about the future." I enjoy what you all do.
If hand loaded the 7 mag will outpace the 7prc with a 180 by about 150fps.
Ryan says he's sorry! Sounds like you have a reliable rifle that gets the job done.
For a old tundra and 7mm rem mag owner. I can relate for the analogy.
Edit: let say tacoma trd Pro VS tacoma Trailhunter.... 👀same but different.
7 prc can do it "all around" and maybe more efficiency on most part. For what people are using it usualy. Maybe for the more niché and for precise purpose this new one has his place.
Let see later.
But would you take the 7mm PRC over your 300 WSM?
No way! The WSM is the best for big game! My 60+ years and reloading and collecting have taught me that after hundreds and hundreds of rifles!
I own a Sako 85 in a 300 WSM. Love the rifle and the round. However, looking at the ballistics, the 7 mm prc does everything the 300 WSM does and better.
@@edwardabrams4972
Why didn't you shoot or use numbers from the Hornady 162 Grain ELD-X Box in the 7mm Rem Mag? It has a G1 Ballistic Coefficient of 0.613 at MZ speed of 2940 fps. Your numbers would be so close they wouldn't matter.
I didnt have either, but i just got a 7 PRC. I think it will be better to reload (without the belt), its a bit more efficient, and i like the factory fast twist and factory ammo. I think either would be fantastic, but since i was buying a brand new, i decided to go with a newer cartridge
This is like watching Seinfeld of the gun world! I love it!
Bought a lightweight christensen ridgeline in 7 PRC for an elk hunt with the Hornady 160 CX bullets. Couldn't be happier with it
You poor poor man🤔 not only did you pay too much for a Remington twin with some makeup on it but you are forcing your self to handload because ammo will be too much cost and not being able to find it🤮😳😂
I never got the whole ammo is too expensive idea. Yeah you're not going to get cheap crappy ball ammo but that's not what I want the rifle for... I shoot hunting ammo through it which cost similar to every other big game caliber hunting ammo
The PRC is better for it's chamber tolerances and long bullet use. Many 7mm Rem Mags will do the same as Ryan states for the most part. I shoot 175 gr. Accubond LR's in mine with a 1:8 twist and 5R rifling and it loves it. I have set the bullet out to maximum length to clear the magazine and even though Hornady says you cannot get accuracy from the Rem mag with long bullets, I've proven to myself I can. Some day I may buy a PRC anyway, but right now, I have lots of Jamison brass and bullets, so going to stick with it. ;) The PRC is limited as it doesn't shoot lighter bullets well. My rem mag is set up for out ot 1500 yards though also, so it's not really any improvement for long range.
7mm-08 is a lead balloon?? I turned around from my reloading bench and gasped! Ryan how could you, after all the respect I've gained for you 😭 I received a Remington 700 CDL in 7mm-08 on my 12th birthday and I've used the cartridge for well over half my life, from deer to predator to matches. I've shot steel at 1000 yards and deer at 10. Winchester honored it by placing it on their StaBall 6.5 powder canister, and my match load is that powder under a 162 ELD-M. Your episode DEFENDING the 7mm-08 from a couple years ago is one of my favorites. It may not be the most popular but it is still a favorite for many. I just sent my dad 40 rounds for the WISCONSIN deer season, which I grew up hunting every year but now unfortunately live too far away. The 7mm-08 is here to stay 😤
Ryan says he's sorry! Sounds like you have a reliable rifle that gets the job done.
Tell Ryan I still love him. @@VortexNation
@@NathanMarkontopical love hate relationship🤔😳😂
The differences in wind drift are not nearly as much as so many guys are touting. Under 400 yards is really a chip shot. But even out to 800 yards we are only talking a few inches of difference with some decent wind. The 7 PRC using a 175 ELD-X has 48 inches of wind drift while the 7 Rem Mag using a 162 ELD-X has 55 inches of wind drift. Those numbers are with a 15 mile per hour cross wind. Seems crazy to make a deal on the difference. I think it is marketing... and Hornady is brilliant at it.
7 inches is no joke
Ryan!
7-08 a lead ballon?!? We own 3 in this house. Perfect whitetail hammer!
This video helped me make a lot of decisions thanks! I wonder if the 7mm prc will actually take off. Settling in on 7mm rem mag because of this video
Y'all should do a AR comparable episode 300 black 556 6mm arc 762x39 it's crazy how many of these small cartages are ending up in deer/hunting camp 6.8 SPC as well
Thanks for the recommendation, we will see if the boys are up to it!
I think you are spot on Ryan. I really believe cartridge design changes felt recoil.
Nope! I will stick with what has always worked!
I’d love to see 28 nosler vs 7mm-08 remspecially with 120 grain to see it’s performance going lighting fast
I'd say it makes more sense vs a .300 Win Mag or PRC? I mean .28 Nosler can be loaded to fire 180gr to 3200fps and more, whereas the 7-08 is barely able to push them to 2700fps lol. At least the .300 Win Mag can push 225s at that speed.
@@marcmoore4115 exactly I wanna see what the performance is between slow and fast see what the actual difference is I have a 30-378 weatherby that fires extremely fast with my 32 inch barrel
@@MrJtin69 ok, I see what you mean. 3200fps vs 2700fps or there abouts would be interesting.
@@marcmoore4115 250 gr at 3250 fps out of my 30-378 weatherby
@@MrJtin69 WHAT... thats insane
🤔 The Reason Why the Recoil "Felt Softer" On the 7mm prc is Because The True Velocities (Which You Should Be Cronographing) Aren't What is Printed on the Box (Especially For the 7mm PRC)! You Should Also Pull The Bullet and See What Powders Are Being Used For Each, Which Will Influence "Felt Recoil"! 🤪
As much as I hate to say it, there is collusion with Hornady. Pretty self evident when watching these.
They’ll not go against Hornady.