One of the secrets of this sequence is that the amount of delay increases at the end of the pattern. This very dynamic changing of delay an/or reverbs was one of the secrets of Florian Schneider's work.
According to Karl Bartos' book the sequence was an "accident". "Ralf had programmed tones in his last sequencer settings, reduced the playback area, enlarged it again, reprogrammed a few sounds, interrupted the process, forgotten what he'd set before, started something new again, abandoned parts of that material, and so on." This doesn't really help with the actual notes, BUT I think we have to bear in mind their sequencer was a hand-built bespoke unit called a Synthanorma (analogue of course). No real telling what it could do or what oddities it may have had. Bartos does say they used sine waves on this sequence: Ralf mainly used either a MiniMoog or a PolyMoog, Florian an ARP Odyssey. I suspect the tonal ambiguity is either due to the instability of the synths (as someone has suggested below) or-and this is my guess-due to processing through something like an analogue frequency shifter (which they definitely had). I think the take away here is that, for all their apparent simplicity and minimalism, all of Kraftwerk's stuff is minutely detailed and exquisitely crafted.
One thing I’ve always liked about the ‘sounds’ that Kraftwerk uses is that with the obvious exception of the straight pads, a lot of their sounds are percussive and have fast transients.
Now that's a great idea! I've always wanted to see how & what sounds made Numbers. Its my favorite song from Kraftwerk & I am a super fan of All their music. Numbers is probably the most NON DUPLICATED SONG IN HISTORY LOL! That's one of the reasons why I love Numbers. This was a very nice video!!! Rest In Sequence Florian!!!
I will give it a shot! I know this sequence isn't quite right, and I love that others have come forward. When I find the one that sounds right I'll upload another video demonstrating it.
@@cnagorka Looking forward to it! I spent quite some time trying to figure this out myself ten years ago, I think the notes above are at least 95% correct. To me it sounds like they just dialed in random tones in the sequencer until it sounded good, you can't really associate them to one scale, just a mixture of chromatic and symmetric scales
I think kraftwerk used resonance in self-oscillation mode to generate that sound, which might explain the tuning inconsistencies and the slight popping sound at the start of each note
I need to revisit this after being away from it for a year. I think I have the notes wrong at the bottom of the sequence, as if maybe it's chromatic then goes diatonic toward the top.
Can you point to a video on YT showing a Prophet-5 in a live performance? I'd love to see it, I've never noticed one and that would make it a lot easier.
I'm not sure the part in the Kraftwerk sequence is derived from an equal temperament chromatic scale (it doesn't sound like an all black-note pentatonic scale to me). Might be an odd, non-western subdivision, with a second oscillator tracking at a predictable interval. Do you use Logic Pro X? There are some pretty fascinating tools in the MIDI FX section of an instrument channel strip that can take you into this territory of non-standard divisions. Back in the day, non-western tunings were pretty big in the modular synth world (and still are today). If you have Logic, the specific MIDI FX tool to check out is the "Modifier." You set the "Input Event" to "Note Number," re-assign to "Note Number" and then play with the Scale and Add controls. Lots of fun.
The probably used an Analog Sequencer, where you tune each step (every step has a dedicated tuning knob) in your 8, 12 or 16 steps, depending on the model of sequencer.
Excellent job, Chris! The first thing I *had* to learn once I’d built my first sequencer was the sequence from Pink Floyd’s “On The Run.” That’s very fun as well. That song, from Dark Side Of The Moon, to me was always where the albums mood sort of goes ‘sideways.’ The descent into madness, if you will. Very famous sequence! Were/are you a DEVO fan as well?
Hey Chris thank you for sharing that I love kraftwerk I grew up listening to them when I was a teenager even playing outside in my neighborhood people thought I was a weird kid!! Hee!! I will try some of your suggestions to play around with that sequence, I normally use zplane decoda it also does an excellent job for a lot of hard to do sequences!! take a look at that software it is really great, by the way you had me glued to the TV watching you play that bravo!! thank you so much!!
Thanks! Going back and listening to it again I wonder if maybe it doesn't start out as a chromatic scale then transition to the black notes later on. Anyway...I've had people suggest Melodyne to figure out sounds, I haven't heard of decoda, I may give it a try.
What might be interesting would be to run that original part through polyphonic Melodyne and analyze it. The dominant pitch might be strong enough to stand out. Then, you could see how the individual notes deviated from equal temperament.
For me the original line starts with the A#3 and C4 sounds. Your version starts lower. Maybe it's not a continuously raising tone line, sometimes it also steps back. I don't think there are 16 notes. We only hear the rest because of the echos. Ralf Hütter is a genius and he used echos very well.
It's funny that so many folks have responded saying what they think the sequence is, and none of them agree on it! I will say that mine isn't quite right but when I try other people's suggestions they don't sound right either.
Kraftwerk fan here since AutoBahn came out ('74). How can you differentiate between the notes in the original sequencer and any added echo or delays after? Just a thought
It's hard to tell, but it seems like when you hear that "loping" rhythm which is kind of uneven and syncopated (think "Numbers") that's a delay line. But this sequence, timing wise, is perfectly smooth, it just has that "dreamy" sound, which comes from lots of reverb. Again, though, that's my stab at it and it may or may not be on the mark.
I think the missing ingredient is a ring modulator, it is 2 sine wave notes at once but I think they are feed into a ring modulator, then into delay, which is why it sounds so bell like, aka klangy.
To me it kind of sounds like it’s some type of basic arpeggio that’s going through a frequency shifter that slowly raises up. That’s why it seems to start on pitch but then sound out of tune by the end. The other comment suggesting it being a self-resonant filter also aligns with your suggestion that it’s a sine wave and would also account for pitch instability.
Whatever it is, Ryuichi Salamoto uses a nearly identical sound in Riot In Lagos. Very interesting considering YMO was hugely influenced by Kraftwerk (but realistically, who wasn’t?)
Honestly I don't think it's that complicated. There's no pitch instability that I hear in the sequence; but, I think I have the notes wrong in the bottom end, as if it starts chromatically then goes to a diatonic pattern further up. The sequence in "Numbers" is the one that is in the cracks between notes, which would be very easy to make on an analog sequencer with no quantising.
@@DanielD.mp3 sakamoto definitely consciously used micro-tunings on B2-unit, he’d already been venturing into gamelan territory in his first 1976 record. Reminds me of Wendy Carlos’ Beauty in the beast. I think for Computer World, it’s most likely an Lfo or another mod source playing with pitch and maybe cutoff
@@cnagorka This type of sequence would be short work for an arpeggiator, maybe on the Jupiter 4. If it’s a sine wave, probably a resonant filter. Could the scale change just be scaling deficiencies on the keyboard tracking?
Yes I need to revisit this one, having been away from it for a while it almost sounds like a chromatic progression at the bass end and whole tones toward the top.
Having fun with sounds ! What a wonderful gear you have to do it. My first sequence has been done with my guitar and a sound editor like Audacity. On the Run From Pink Floyd. So fast seq. that you can't define it as a sound coming from a guitar. - You should try to make 5.1 surround sound. I have some 5.1 cds of Kraftwerk and it's very enjoyable to listen to all these sound coming from everywhere in the room. By the way you wear a very nice t-shirt of Kraftwerk. This is Tour the France. A very nbice album from them ! A version of On the Run: ua-cam.com/video/WTHxRnRSot4/v-deo.html
Just add a swing to the track and you will be in business. Your track is bland, funk it up. Kraftwerk is about the beat as well as electronic sounds all around-GSH
One of the secrets of this sequence is that the amount of delay increases at the end of the pattern. This very dynamic changing of delay an/or reverbs was one of the secrets of Florian Schneider's work.
According to Karl Bartos' book the sequence was an "accident". "Ralf had programmed tones in his last sequencer settings, reduced the playback area, enlarged it again, reprogrammed a few sounds, interrupted the process, forgotten what he'd set before, started something new again, abandoned parts of that material, and so on."
This doesn't really help with the actual notes, BUT I think we have to bear in mind their sequencer was a hand-built bespoke unit called a Synthanorma (analogue of course). No real telling what it could do or what oddities it may have had. Bartos does say they used sine waves on this sequence: Ralf mainly used either a MiniMoog or a PolyMoog, Florian an ARP Odyssey.
I suspect the tonal ambiguity is either due to the instability of the synths (as someone has suggested below) or-and this is my guess-due to processing through something like an analogue frequency shifter (which they definitely had).
I think the take away here is that, for all their apparent simplicity and minimalism, all of Kraftwerk's stuff is minutely detailed and exquisitely crafted.
I'm still waiting on my copy of the Bartos book! I can't wait to read it.
very interesting comments.
One thing I’ve always liked about the ‘sounds’ that Kraftwerk uses is that with the obvious exception of the straight pads, a lot of their sounds are percussive and have fast transients.
Wave Kit (Capella Software) has found following sequence:
A#2 B2 (A#2 B2) C3 C#3 D3 G#3 B3 C4 F(E)4 G4 A#4 D5
I'll give it a try!
Love Computerworld and this sequence. Terrific stuff. Do Numbers!
Yeah that's a tough one, since the notes aren't in tune with anything! But yes I'm going to try it one of these days.
Now that's a great idea! I've always wanted to see how & what sounds made Numbers. Its my favorite song from Kraftwerk & I am a super fan of All their music. Numbers is probably the most NON DUPLICATED SONG IN HISTORY LOL! That's one of the reasons why I love Numbers. This was a very nice video!!! Rest In Sequence Florian!!!
Nothing beats true dedication! Hat off for you!
Thanks
Nice video! I've always loved this sequence and now I know the "secret" :)
Sorry but the correct sequence of notes is the following:
A#2-B2-C3-C#3-D3-F3-G#3-B3-C#4-D#4-F4-F#4-G4-G#4-B4-D5
Try it out!
I will give it a shot! I know this sequence isn't quite right, and I love that others have come forward. When I find the one that sounds right I'll upload another video demonstrating it.
@@cnagorka Looking forward to it! I spent quite some time trying to figure this out myself ten years ago, I think the notes above are at least 95% correct. To me it sounds like they just dialed in random tones in the sequencer until it sounded good, you can't really associate them to one scale, just a mixture of chromatic and symmetric scales
Florian,Jaki,Dinger,Czukay,and Karoli all gone... major krautrockers
I think kraftwerk used resonance in self-oscillation mode to generate that sound, which might explain the tuning inconsistencies and the slight popping sound at the start of each note
I need to revisit this after being away from it for a year. I think I have the notes wrong at the bottom of the sequence, as if maybe it's chromatic then goes diatonic toward the top.
This segment 10:39 is still a bit like the beginning of the composition SpaceLab (ManMachine 1978).
Thanks for showing your work.
You can see in live performances that they were using a Prophet-5 for that sequence. Maybe that helps to dial in the tone.
Can you point to a video on YT showing a Prophet-5 in a live performance? I'd love to see it, I've never noticed one and that would make it a lot easier.
I'm not sure the part in the Kraftwerk sequence is derived from an equal temperament chromatic scale (it doesn't sound like an all black-note pentatonic scale to me). Might be an odd, non-western subdivision, with a second oscillator tracking at a predictable interval. Do you use Logic Pro X? There are some pretty fascinating tools in the MIDI FX section of an instrument channel strip that can take you into this territory of non-standard divisions. Back in the day, non-western tunings were pretty big in the modular synth world (and still are today). If you have Logic, the specific MIDI FX tool to check out is the "Modifier." You set the "Input Event" to "Note Number," re-assign to "Note Number" and then play with the Scale and Add controls. Lots of fun.
The probably used an Analog Sequencer, where you tune each step (every step has a dedicated tuning knob) in your 8, 12 or 16 steps, depending on the model of sequencer.
Nice work, I always thought it was a staircase output from a clock divider
Excellent job, Chris! The first thing I *had* to learn once I’d built my first sequencer was the sequence from Pink Floyd’s “On The Run.” That’s very fun as well. That song, from Dark Side Of The Moon, to me was always where the albums mood sort of goes ‘sideways.’ The descent into madness, if you will. Very famous sequence! Were/are you a DEVO fan as well?
Yes, "On the Run" was shown in conventional notation in an issue of Keyboard magazine many years ago. Yes, Devo rocks.
EMS synthi? I think 🤔
Cool this is. looking forward to watching more. new to your channel ;)
sounds terrific-thanks for posting this!
Excellent effort
Thanks...one of these days I'm going to go through all of the suggestions of viewers as to what they think the sequence is and compare them.
Pioneers
Hey Chris thank you for sharing that I love kraftwerk I grew up listening to them when I was a teenager even playing outside in my neighborhood people thought I was a weird kid!! Hee!! I will try some of your suggestions to play around with that sequence, I normally use zplane decoda it also does an excellent job for a lot of hard to do sequences!! take a look at that software it is really great, by the way you had me glued to the TV watching you play that bravo!! thank you so much!!
Thanks! Going back and listening to it again I wonder if maybe it doesn't start out as a chromatic scale then transition to the black notes later on. Anyway...I've had people suggest Melodyne to figure out sounds, I haven't heard of decoda, I may give it a try.
Check out one of my vids I try doing deadline from skinny puppy it came out pretty close, cheers!!!
What might be interesting would be to run that original part through polyphonic Melodyne and analyze it. The dominant pitch might be strong enough to stand out. Then, you could see how the individual notes deviated from equal temperament.
they probably used an Odyssey..... it has unison and some other things like that I believe
For me the original line starts with the A#3 and C4 sounds. Your version starts lower. Maybe it's not a continuously raising tone line, sometimes it also steps back. I don't think there are 16 notes. We only hear the rest because of the echos. Ralf Hütter is a genius and he used echos very well.
It's funny that so many folks have responded saying what they think the sequence is, and none of them agree on it! I will say that mine isn't quite right but when I try other people's suggestions they don't sound right either.
Kraftwerk fan here since AutoBahn came out ('74). How can you differentiate between the notes in the original sequencer and any added echo or delays after? Just a thought
It's hard to tell, but it seems like when you hear that "loping" rhythm which is kind of uneven and syncopated (think "Numbers") that's a delay line. But this sequence, timing wise, is perfectly smooth, it just has that "dreamy" sound, which comes from lots of reverb. Again, though, that's my stab at it and it may or may not be on the mark.
Brilliant!
Thanks
I think the missing ingredient is a ring modulator, it is 2 sine wave notes at once but I think they are feed into a ring modulator, then into delay, which is why it sounds so bell like, aka klangy.
I'm not hearing a ring modulator - I think our host probably has it right.
To me it kind of sounds like it’s some type of basic arpeggio that’s going through a frequency shifter that slowly raises up. That’s why it seems to start on pitch but then sound out of tune by the end. The other comment suggesting it being a self-resonant filter also aligns with your suggestion that it’s a sine wave and would also account for pitch instability.
Whatever it is, Ryuichi Salamoto uses a nearly identical sound in Riot In Lagos. Very interesting considering YMO was hugely influenced by Kraftwerk (but realistically, who wasn’t?)
Honestly I don't think it's that complicated. There's no pitch instability that I hear in the sequence; but, I think I have the notes wrong in the bottom end, as if it starts chromatically then goes to a diatonic pattern further up. The sequence in "Numbers" is the one that is in the cracks between notes, which would be very easy to make on an analog sequencer with no quantising.
@@DanielD.mp3 sakamoto definitely consciously used micro-tunings on B2-unit, he’d already been venturing into gamelan territory in his first 1976 record. Reminds me of Wendy Carlos’ Beauty in the beast. I think for Computer World, it’s most likely an Lfo or another mod source playing with pitch and maybe cutoff
@@cnagorka This type of sequence would be short work for an arpeggiator, maybe on the Jupiter 4. If it’s a sine wave, probably a resonant filter. Could the scale change just be scaling deficiencies on the keyboard tracking?
Thank you for your effort, that was cool.
Thanks- it may not be perfectly accurate but it's close enough for me!
Very interesting!
Killer ! thank you
Awesome!!
Nice job, did you ever record the complete track?
Yes, it’s on UA-cam somewhere
The original sounds better and different, sorry you didn't decode it. Tough task though I'll have to try and recreated it
Yes I'm going to try it again with all of the suggestions people have left in the comments, I've tried a couple and I don't think they're right either
I heard it’s made by janitor sweeping dust from keyboard 😂
Just kidding, cool …. krafty investigation! Binge listening Kraftwerk still.
Neat homemade sequencer!
@@samprock Thanks- and I think the janitor sweeping the keyboard is as plausible as any explanation.
brother : )
It's hard to tell but I could tell (on normal speed) the first 2 notes are the same. Kraftwerk were absolute devils.
Yes I need to revisit this one, having been away from it for a while it almost sounds like a chromatic progression at the bass end and whole tones toward the top.
Yeah.. but play them together though..
Having fun with sounds ! What a wonderful gear you have to do it. My first sequence has been done with my guitar and a sound editor like Audacity. On the Run From Pink Floyd. So fast seq. that you can't define it as a sound coming from a guitar. - You should try to make 5.1 surround sound. I have some 5.1 cds of Kraftwerk and it's very enjoyable to listen to all these sound coming from everywhere in the room. By the way you wear a very nice t-shirt of Kraftwerk. This is Tour the France. A very nbice album from them ! A version of On the Run: ua-cam.com/video/WTHxRnRSot4/v-deo.html
I'm amused that it probably took you far longer to reverse engineer it than they did to create it. 😃
That's the way it always is!
Just add a swing to the track and you will be in business. Your track is bland, funk it up. Kraftwerk is about the beat as well as electronic sounds all around-GSH