So $2800 RZ70 or $3500 (+Dirac cost) Cinema 30. The RZ70 is 11.2 vs 13,4 of the Cinema 30 - so you loss the front wide or third row of height capability with the Onkyo. While Dirac is included with the Onkyo, the implementation is not as good. When I tested in December it was buggy and had to restart at times - plus slow download of filters to the receiver. No issue with Marantz Dirac. The sound quality is slightly better with the Cinema 30. Both have 11 channels x 140W so I will call that one even. Cinema 39 has DTS:X pro support if you need to run front wide speakers. I liked the RZ79 and if you only have. 7.2.4 configuration, it is a very good option. The Cinema 30 with its 9.4.4 or 7.4.6 support and has more features which are more refined. If you don’t need those features, the Onkyo is fine. -Jon
I have the 40 series and Best Buy set it up with Dirac-pretty well-but I was not aware of the many other “settings” on the remote and or “options” for this receiver- so thank you very much for your detailed analysis!
I have a Cinema 50, I do use HEOS for a few things. I own a few of the Denon 150 smart speakers. You can use Heos to play the Cinema 50 and the all of the Deon 150's together at the same time giving you music all around the house. I agree the Apple TV is better.
Great use case I didn't think of. Certainly being about to push the signal to all of the networked speakers couldn't be addressed with a standard streaming device like an AppleTV. -Jon
Excellent video! Regarding HEOS, I wished it could playback multichannel. And I´d also like to be able to control it from my computer. And it would also be nice, if I could see the HEOS interface on my TV screen and control it from there.
Awesome video Jon thanks! Just took delivery of my C30 (still in the box) so the timing was perfect! Do you know if there's any benefit or use case for using the 360 Reality Audio shown on the box? Is that the Sony 360 Spatial Audio? What can this be used for? Is it only to play back audio encoded in 360 or can it be used to add a 360 type sound to other sources? I also agree with your comment re: ATV. Cheers.
The Sony 360 Reality Audio encoding is not the same as Sony 360 Spatial Audio. "360 Reality Audio" is an MPEG-H encoding executed to Sony's standard. Content is limited. I understand that you will need to use an Amazon FireTV device to make Sony 360 Reality Audio content available to the Marantz Cinema 30. The Marantz Cinema 30 support MPEG-H decoding and Sony's 360 Reality Audio format which is based-on MPEG-H. This is something I still need to test out. The "Sony 360 Spatial Audio" is a proprietary method of mapping content to your speaker layout and the exact locations you have speakers positioned in your room. It is only available on Sony AV Receivers. I find Sony's branding here confusing with their two types of 360 Audio technologies. Jon
@@ripewave C30 arrived and set up yesterday! Really happy with the sound and ease of use, very versatile UI. I'm using it in pre-amp mode feeding a 3ch Purifi and 6ch Hypex external amps and 2 x subs. I am coming from an Emotiva XMC-2 and its nice to have a unit that, well just works first and foremost : ). But to be fair, the Emo has a great sound but I think the C30 is superior, I'll get to that in a minute. I also tried the Audyssey that came in the box but it just sucked the life out of the sound especially in the bass, so I disabled Audyssey. I've mostly been running it in pure direct mode listening to 2ch audio through a pair of Dynaudio Contour floor standers. I have also toggled the DAC filters back and forth and I really like the sound of both. They are a little different, but I don't mind that. I believe that Filter 1 "Marantz Sound" is rolling off an upper mid-range frequency a little which gives it a slightly warmer sound, although that's my opinion of course, with the Filter 2 "Benchtest" is a little flatter. I like both better than the Emo, not just because the Emo is full of bugs, but I really like the detail and slickness the marantz produces, especially in the cymbals and high vocal area, its actually quite refreshing and tbh it actually allows the low-mid mid-range to open up more which gives it a more depth and soundstage. Whereas the XMC-2 sounded more brash and brittle in this area and a bit fatiguing after a while. I don't even care if the C30 is adding some sort of "marantz" coloring to the sound, its great.
@@ripewave even tho I won’t have any surround speakers? I’d just utilize the fronts, front wide, center, ceiling front, ceiling back, and rear surround. With 2 subs? That would be ok?
Jon, Thanks for another in depth review! I'm curious. Did you find that the Marantz is worth the extra $1000 over the Denon? I know you found a little more distortion from the Denon but was it audible?
The Marantz Cinema 30 is worth more then the Denon AVR-X6800H. The construction, power supply, exterior finishes, internal components, size, weight, packaging clearly place the Cinema 30 at a higher level. The sonic difference is auditable, but only slightly. For many, the $1,000 extra will seem greedy. However, we you place the two units side-by-side, and didn't know anything else but what they look like, you may guess that the Marantz could be $1,000 more. For the knowledgeable, that isn't into appearances, may only be willing to pay $200-$500 more. Denon/Marantz intentionally make it a though choice. -Jon
@@ripewave Thanks, Jon. I almost wish I had waited. I am very pleased with my 6800H and with my old ears probably wouldn’t appreciate the difference anyway. Are you thinking about moving from the Cinema 50 to the Cinema 30?
Yes - those would be good to add back. I did them for a while but didn’t know if they were being used and took time away from producing new content. It there is interest now then I could add back. -Jon
The selection between 7.4.6 and 9.4.4 depends on your room dimensions. Deep rooms may be better served with 3 rows of heights. Two rows of heights is the sweet spot for most rooms as it is possible to distinguish between front and rear heights, but it gets less obvious with 3 or more rows. Our hearing is able to detect sounds in front with far more precision then sounds behind. The extra 2 channels can provide greater benefit to when set up as front wides vs. a third row. You will need a receiver, like the Cinema 30 that can upmix to 9.4.4. When some models support front wides, they will not upmix content, leaving those wide speakers silent unless the movie was mixed as 9.1.4 or greater. -Jon
Thank you very much for the answer, yes, I have a room of 4 by 4 meters, which used to have 4 speakers in the ceiling and now set up 2 speakers in front which is almost like the front height. I have a Kino 30 which I have just bought, but since there is so little space I was wondering what is best, possibly 4 fixed on the roof and 2 in front or to put 2 down as front wide. I do not no whats best 7.4.4 or 7.4.6. Like You sand not every movie is With front wide. But You Are the best thanks fore reply🥰
Potentially. Setting a curtain maximum limit of 2000Hz should help to retain. The Marantz "warmth" is a subtle application at best. I think the Marantz Cinema 30, benefits more from its higher end circuits then their DAC filters. With Calibration you do not to be careful as it could do more then "correct for the room" - it can attempt to correct for the speakers, the amps, the receiver, etc. in an attempt to match the output to the source material input. -Jon
@@ripewave Am I correct that Audyssey and Dirac are limited to 48khz? So what advantages do I have, if I play back a high res file? Or, in other words, let´s say I have a DVD audio or SACD with multichannel and want to get the advantage of the high resolution. On the one hand I want to have perfect delays, volumes etc., on the other hand I don´t want to loose the high res advantage due to the 48khz limit of Dirac or Audyssey. How do I set up the C30 in this case? Maybe something for your next video :)
How would this be compared to the RZ70, is it really worth the price difference??
So $2800 RZ70 or $3500 (+Dirac cost) Cinema 30. The RZ70 is 11.2 vs 13,4 of the Cinema 30 - so you loss the front wide or third row of height capability with the Onkyo. While Dirac is included with the Onkyo, the implementation is not as good. When I tested in December it was buggy and had to restart at times - plus slow download of filters to the receiver. No issue with Marantz Dirac. The sound quality is slightly better with the Cinema 30. Both have 11 channels x 140W so I will call that one even. Cinema 39 has DTS:X pro support if you need to run front wide speakers. I liked the RZ79 and if you only have. 7.2.4 configuration, it is a very good option. The Cinema 30 with its 9.4.4 or 7.4.6 support and has more features which are more refined. If you don’t need those features, the Onkyo is fine. -Jon
I have the 40 series and Best Buy set it up with Dirac-pretty well-but I was not aware of the many other “settings” on the remote and or “options” for this receiver- so thank you very much for your detailed analysis!
Glad I could help!
Thanks for this "immersive" lesson...🙏👍.
Will They Cert this roon Ready or no? that is what is holding me up from buying it.
I am not finding any indication on Roon Ready Certification for Marantz. -Kon
I have a Cinema 50, I do use HEOS for a few things. I own a few of the Denon 150 smart speakers. You can use Heos to play the Cinema 50 and the all of the Deon 150's together at the same time giving you music all around the house. I agree the Apple TV is better.
Great use case I didn't think of. Certainly being about to push the signal to all of the networked speakers couldn't be addressed with a standard streaming device like an AppleTV. -Jon
Excellent video! Regarding HEOS, I wished it could playback multichannel. And I´d also like to be able to control it from my computer. And it would also be nice, if I could see the HEOS interface on my TV screen and control it from there.
Those would be welcomed additions. Sounds like features AppleTV and others provide. -Jon
Your Marantz Cinema 30 "User Interfaces" is Fantastic--How About Doing the Same on the Denon AVR-X6800H? Thnx Much
Awesome video Jon thanks! Just took delivery of my C30 (still in the box) so the timing was perfect! Do you know if there's any benefit or use case for using the 360 Reality Audio shown on the box? Is that the Sony 360 Spatial Audio? What can this be used for? Is it only to play back audio encoded in 360 or can it be used to add a 360 type sound to other sources? I also agree with your comment re: ATV. Cheers.
The Sony 360 Reality Audio encoding is not the same as Sony 360 Spatial Audio. "360 Reality Audio" is an MPEG-H encoding executed to Sony's standard. Content is limited. I understand that you will need to use an Amazon FireTV device to make Sony 360 Reality Audio content available to the Marantz Cinema 30. The Marantz Cinema 30 support MPEG-H decoding and Sony's 360 Reality Audio format which is based-on MPEG-H. This is something I still need to test out.
The "Sony 360 Spatial Audio" is a proprietary method of mapping content to your speaker layout and the exact locations you have speakers positioned in your room. It is only available on Sony AV Receivers.
I find Sony's branding here confusing with their two types of 360 Audio technologies.
Jon
@@ripewave
C30 arrived and set up yesterday! Really happy with the sound and ease of use, very versatile UI. I'm using it in pre-amp mode feeding a 3ch Purifi and 6ch Hypex external amps and 2 x subs. I am coming from an Emotiva XMC-2 and its nice to have a unit that, well just works first and foremost : ). But to be fair, the Emo has a great sound but I think the C30 is superior, I'll get to that in a minute.
I also tried the Audyssey that came in the box but it just sucked the life out of the sound especially in the bass, so I disabled Audyssey.
I've mostly been running it in pure direct mode listening to 2ch audio through a pair of Dynaudio Contour floor standers. I have also toggled the DAC filters back and forth and I really like the sound of both. They are a little different, but I don't mind that. I believe that Filter 1 "Marantz Sound" is rolling off an upper mid-range frequency a little which gives it a slightly warmer sound, although that's my opinion of course, with the Filter 2 "Benchtest" is a little flatter.
I like both better than the Emo, not just because the Emo is full of bugs, but I really like the detail and slickness the marantz produces, especially in the cymbals and high vocal area, its actually quite refreshing and tbh it actually allows the low-mid mid-range to open up more which gives it a more depth and soundstage. Whereas the XMC-2 sounded more brash and brittle in this area and a bit fatiguing after a while. I don't even care if the C30 is adding some sort of "marantz" coloring to the sound, its great.
Also, Could I do a 2 Front Wide, 4 ceilings, and a rear surround configuration with the 2 fronts and center?
Yes - that is the 9.2.4 configuration I used for the videos. -Jon
@@ripewave even tho I won’t have any surround speakers? I’d just utilize the fronts, front wide, center, ceiling front, ceiling back, and rear surround. With 2 subs? That would be ok?
Jon,
Thanks for another in depth review! I'm curious. Did you find that the Marantz is worth the extra $1000 over the Denon? I know you found a little more distortion from the Denon but was it audible?
The Marantz Cinema 30 is worth more then the Denon AVR-X6800H. The construction, power supply, exterior finishes, internal components, size, weight, packaging clearly place the Cinema 30 at a higher level. The sonic difference is auditable, but only slightly. For many, the $1,000 extra will seem greedy. However, we you place the two units side-by-side, and didn't know anything else but what they look like, you may guess that the Marantz could be $1,000 more. For the knowledgeable, that isn't into appearances, may only be willing to pay $200-$500 more. Denon/Marantz intentionally make it a though choice. -Jon
@@ripewave Thanks, Jon. I almost wish I had waited. I am very pleased with my 6800H and with my old ears probably wouldn’t appreciate the difference anyway. Are you thinking about moving from the Cinema 50 to the Cinema 30?
@@ripewaveHey John, Which One Would You Get (Marantz Cinema 30 Or The Denon AVRX6800H???) If You Was Starting A New Home Theater 🎥 Set Up????
Chapters please
Yes - those would be good to add back. I did them for a while but didn’t know if they were being used and took time away from producing new content. It there is interest now then I could add back. -Jon
Thanks John, again here the question for maybe implementing the DAC Filter options in a future Video. :)
Yes - I have been experimenting with the DAC Filter option and plan to cover it - maybe the next week. Great suggestion. - Jon
@@ripewave Again thanks John, looking forward to it.
Thanks John.. Invaluable info as always!!
Thanks for the feedback. Glad the content was helpful. -Jon
Did you check out the "Surround Parameters" while using a DTS:X movie?
I have not. I think the next video will run through the sound modes.
It would be interesting to see a comparison of Dirac with DLBC compared to OCA's new Audyssey One.
Hi, will You make a video of 7.4.6 or is 9.4.4 best fore sound fore movie sound??😊 on this C 30
The selection between 7.4.6 and 9.4.4 depends on your room dimensions. Deep rooms may be better served with 3 rows of heights. Two rows of heights is the sweet spot for most rooms as it is possible to distinguish between front and rear heights, but it gets less obvious with 3 or more rows. Our hearing is able to detect sounds in front with far more precision then sounds behind. The extra 2 channels can provide greater benefit to when set up as front wides vs. a third row. You will need a receiver, like the Cinema 30 that can upmix to 9.4.4. When some models support front wides, they will not upmix content, leaving those wide speakers silent unless the movie was mixed as 9.1.4 or greater. -Jon
Thank you very much for the answer, yes, I have a room of 4 by 4 meters, which used to have 4 speakers in the ceiling and now set up 2 speakers in front which is almost like the front height.
I have a Kino 30 which I have just bought, but since there is so little space I was wondering what is best, possibly 4 fixed on the roof and 2 in front or to put 2 down as front wide. I do not no whats best 7.4.4 or 7.4.6. Like You sand not every movie is With front wide. But You Are the best thanks fore reply🥰
You Are the best😊👍
When marantz is Calibrated bt audyssey deos it loose the marantz warm sound
Potentially. Setting a curtain maximum limit of 2000Hz should help to retain. The Marantz "warmth" is a subtle application at best. I think the Marantz Cinema 30, benefits more from its higher end circuits then their DAC filters. With Calibration you do not to be careful as it could do more then "correct for the room" - it can attempt to correct for the speakers, the amps, the receiver, etc. in an attempt to match the output to the source material input. -Jon
@ripewave ok thank you that's good to know and that makes sense too
@@ripewave Am I correct that Audyssey and Dirac are limited to 48khz? So what advantages do I have, if I play back a high res file? Or, in other words, let´s say I have a DVD audio or SACD with multichannel and want to get the advantage of the high resolution. On the one hand I want to have perfect delays, volumes etc., on the other hand I don´t want to loose the high res advantage due to the 48khz limit of Dirac or Audyssey. How do I set up the C30 in this case? Maybe something for your next video :)