CHEVY 350 VS DODGE 360-BATTLE OF THE DAILY DRIVERS!
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- Опубліковано 6 кві 2021
- BACK TO BASICS-CHEVY & DODGE DAILY DRIVER BUILDS-350 v
360. IS THE 350 CHEVY MORE POWERFUL THAN A 360 DODGE? IS THAT EVEN THE RIGHT QUESTION? WHAT IF WE ASK, HOW CAN YOU MODIFY A 350 CHEVY FOR USE AS A DAILY DRIVER? HOW CAN WE MODIFY A DODGE 360 FOR USE AS A DAILY DRIVER? CHECK OUT THE DYNO RESULTS OF THESE TWO BACK TO BASIC BUILDS, USING PORTED STOCK HEADS, A MILD CAM AND FOUR-BARREL INTAKE SET UP. ALL GOOD STUFF. - Авто та транспорт
360 was ran with alternator and water pump. What we Learned was an Old worn out dodge being run with the water pump and alternator on it makes almost as much power as a fresh 350 Chevy being ran without a water pump and alternator.
hahahaha, this is true.
The truth hurts, LOL
I’d wager a 340 would do even better
I'd bet on a 100k mile 350 over a built one any-day...
That's why you get drag engines from the junk yard
@@thespiritof76.. 360 baby
Absolutely correct. Pitting a fresh, higher compression engine against a high mileage, emissions anchor does bring about a "heated discussion" rather quickly lol.
well atleast he didn't compare a vortec 350 to that 360... then the mopar guys would really be complaining
@@konnerkramer329 If they used 9.5 piston in the 360 and compared it to the vortec 350 would be a good comparison
@@jjtool5800 no unfortunately it wouldn't the vortec 350 makes 400tq and 300hp bone stock on the engine dyno
@@konnerkramer329 that same 360 if it had 10.1 is over 400hp
360 magnum with 9.1 is 320 hp
Everything done was alright expect running the Dodge worn out and with lower compression. Still held it's own.
Would be a good 5% higher everywhere with just another point of compression everything else the same.
fucking A..Dodge is tough as shit
The chevy would probably make even more power once it becomes worn.
@@ericdolby1622 The chevy would probably make even more power once it becomes worn and has a 100 shot on it....
@@ssnerd583 yep. I agree.
One had a little more compression, the other had a little more camshaft and yet it looks like they run almost identical. I'd be happy with either engine. These are engine that will hopefully be talked about for another 50 years. Thumbs up!
Everyone that goes around yelling about how Brand A is so much better than Brand B needs to chill out and put the Calvin peeing stickers away. Similar sized engines with similar components make similar power. But I guess that doesn't make people feel all warm and fuzzy about the particular car that they have.
Hey now, there’s no place for common sense on the internet 😝
Wow hold up there buddy are u thinking rational thoughts? Get the hell outa here MOPAR OR NO CAR GODDAMMIT 😤
What? You mean billion dollar marketing campaigns are basically BS? Who knew? 🤷🏼♂️
Right. I've made the same argument for a long time. There are very narrow real advantages from one small block to the next. Ford had equal port spacing, which is advantageous, dodge had better valve angles and raised ports on the exhaust side. Doesn't really matter in the scheme. They're all moving right around the same amount of air so the performance will be similar. Brand loyalists are generally not very intelligent people, I've learned over the years.
@@christophersine84
People that like what they like are stupid?😂🤣🤣
Just an additional point to add, all LA360 Mopars were advertised at 8.4:1 just like you mentioned, however they were not close to that actually. The last 360 I freshened up using the stock dished pistons, they were .092" in the hole. Doing the math puts the actual number below 7.4:1 on that particular engine and it was a 1977 model.
Good 'ole smog era.... good riddance
Well, this 350 didn't have stock pistons sooooo...
@@BuzzLOLOL a ported E7TE head will greatly improve flow and probably 40 horse when hogged and done accurately.
Yes the 318 suffered bad to.
That is very true. I measured my ‘90 360 block with the factory 308 heads measured out to 7.8:1. The pistons (going by memory) were .120” in the hole and the heads were 74cc’s (I believe). Can’t remember the CC on the dished pistons off hand, but they were Sealed Power .030” oversized factory style dished pistons.
All I know when I raced pure stock back in 1971 with my 340 Demon I beat all the 350 Chevys in my class! When I moved up to Super Stock with my 340's I would beat all the Chevy, Pontiac and Ford's in my Super Stock class. The 360 Super Stockers were a couple tenths slower. Mine were all automatic. My buddy's 340 Duster Super Stock 4 speed was faster and he beat all the other brands too!
...had a 340 4V 4 spd Dart that had been worked over a bit...it was all laughing at it until I pulled the cut-outs and they could HEAR it....lol that car was QUICK
Simpson speed shop built that 360 to handle 530 hp I believe it can handle more. Would love to see them forced inducted till they popped, since forced induction likes lower compression
Also that 68 super bee with the 383 was a monster in that era
Thanks Richard! Things to consider for the average guy. The Mopar starts with more cubes, has a more stable, stronger top and bottom end in stock form (crank position, block webbing/design and shaft mounted rockers). Also, the Mopar has a larger lifter diameter, allowing more aggressive ramp rate on flat tappet cams (this means more area under the curve and more hp/torque). Nice job!
Dodge's overall with stock parts will make more power than the Chevy 350, bow tie guys will not admit this
@@rodneydunnigan9291 We won’t admit it because it’s not true
@@rodneydunnigan9291 Take out the second D and the only E from “Dodge” and you get “Dog” which is what a Dodge is.
@@jacobholinaty49
Still King of Factory Horsepower, Is that true !!!
😂😂😂😂Yes !!!
@@rodneydunnigan9291 well a 350 Vortec will still spank a 360 Magnum any day of the week stock for stock
As a Chevy person, I see the advantage the Mopar has through the design, all build being equal, you'll get more power from it. Chevy is the least expensive way to get hp, though.
Wow. I have a rebuilt 360 waiting on my .474 cam, rpm air gap, 1 5/8in headers with full msd and didn’t expect as much as you did. That’s great!
The 360 will be a bullet, very tough reliable powerful engine. As long as you have high compression.
Ah bringing up an old "heated discussion" me a and my "Mopar or Nocar" mechanic buddy had all day at work 🤣
Good times before everything needed 1,000hp lol.
Mopar = Slocar ;-D
@@corvettejohn4507 Mopar-moment of power are rare.
The Mopar was running stock water pump and alternator. the chevy a electric water pump only.......... Theres a few horsepower differance there.
Nice video! Both engines are infamous.
I prefer MOPAR. The Chevy 350 earned it's reputation in the 70's. Then GM spent over a decade making trashy units(80's) before fixing it with the Vortec. I don't think there was a bad year for Chrysler small block, better years, but no real bad ones.
Ford did a bunch of weird bean counter games with their small block. In general, the 351W was a solid engine throughout, but it also was not used in cars during the time GM was making crappy 350's. Basically the 351W was exempted from the 80's trash by being exclusive to heavier trucks.
If we are going to draw a line at "before the 90's" I would say:
1. Olds 350
2. Mopar. 360, but 318 is fine too. I exclude 340 because $$$$$
3. Ford 351W. You couldn't pay me to use a 302. Nobody builds the M engines, but the 400M was a brute. Hard to find now.
4. Chevy. But mostly because either you use a 70's motor or you replace half+ of an 80's unit. Remember, we drew a line before the 90's, all the LT1 and Vortec goodies are not on the table.
5. ???
6. Profit. Wait I don't think this was that kind of list.
The whole world changes on this topic when you start talking about EFI, Magnum Mopar, Vortec GM, etc. Just remember, there is a reason GM spent decades comparing their 350 to Chrysler's 318 and Ford's 302.
I agree with you Dave and I'm curious about the 302? How come you don't like it?
@@wildestcowboy2668 Not so much I don't like it as I would not bother with one when the 351W shares almost everything with it and fits in almost everything you would put a 302 in . There are a few oddball swaps you could do where the tiny bit of deck height is critical like a Miata or something, but in general the 351W is a much smoother running more balanced engine with a broader torque curve with less peaky power output. Everything I have run with a 351W was plain fun, even my old Bronco. Magic stuff happens when you take a 302 out of say, a hatchback Mustang, and stick a 351W in there instead, it bolts to the same T5, drops in without modification and all that you really need is to add a couple inches hood clearance in some cases(the Capri i did had a scoop, so it wasn;t needed). the torque curve is smooth, the horsepower is higher- you can take a mildly worked 302 and drop a truck engine 351W with a new intake and big carb on it with a nice exhaust(shared with 302 anyway) and the car is transformed into something completely different. In the land of Ford, when it comes to fun:
FE engines that aren;t $$$$$
351's. Mostly C and W. I count the 400M
Worked 289 is a screamer
302 if above isn't available
If $$ is no object, then you get stuff like 429Cj's, 427's, 428SCJ, 406 tripower- the stuff rich people will spend new car money on.
Anything but LS is wonderful content.
👏👏👏👏
Unless you have several ls engines in use.
Either of these motors and even a 351. Would be great daily drivers and... They'd make great Saturday night specials with a 100 shot of nitrous
yeah !! they would huh
Do a heads up comparison of identically prepped chevy and dodge, not dyno for HP or torque, but WOT til one blows up. Any guesses which one will first? Bowtie will sling a rod way before a Mopar
The old Mopar did her fans proud!
Nice test!!
I used to be a big LA engine guy...then I discovered Rat motors, then turbos, then LS, now a turbo’d rat motor.....but like Arnold says......‘I’ll be back’.
Ha
It's neat how closely the curves mimick on another in the curves. Really, I'd imagine, a 351, a 350, and a 360 built as close to the same as possible, would be very very very close.
Nice Edelbrock Quad.! Great carb. hard to find,she looks like new man.
Except equal size does not mean equal power if everything is the same due to different friction, windage, cylinder burn rate, rod angularity, parasitic losses, etc.
As someone who is in the process of upgrading both engines, this was an interesting video to follow!
I run a 360 , 5.9 l in my classic car . I really like the power it makes from mild bolt on parts without expensive machining. But with the Mop. I had to buy everything retail couldn't swap any parts ,find good used stuff at a swap meet. For me it's a factor it might mean Chevy next time for me.
Can't beat the American V8 , I've got a 360 that's 450 Hp and just built a beautiful 327 for the wife's impala. Had Ford's and loved those to especially the Cleveland. I'm a Mopar guy but they're all good engines. Another great engine was the Australian built Holden 308 then they used the ls1.
It would be interesting to see how a 340 Chrysler would compare. Those were really a pre clean air act engine where the 360 was not. They were a real power house.
An engine is just an air pump, so with the exact same mods, the 340 would make less power based on 20 fewer cubes and, more importantly, 3.31 stroke vs. 3.58 for the 360. We built a mild 366 with ported Edelbock RPM heads, Hughes flat-tappet hydraulic cam and dual-plane intake Edelbrock air gap and it made 449 horsepower/453 pound-feet. With a stout roller, it made 529/474. Swap the same parts onto a 340 with the same compression and overall power goes down.
@@wheelbasemedia5814 if you can't be fair on your comparison why even bother. Obviously your bias towards the gm shit. I love putting you Chevy bozos on the trailer . Gm out numbers everyone else 10 to 1. And us underdogs still come up and kick your fucking ass. That's exactly why I'm a Mopar Guy .
@@bradhardy2629 A 10:1 360 is over 400horse with ease. The only Chrysler LA engine that ever had compression is the 340 and it basically destroyed everything.
Dan W. Well actually the 340 wasn't a real power house. Rated from the factory at 275 hp they ran as delivered from the factory about as well as the 300 hp hydraulic lifter Chev 32u. Blue print one and you got around 325 hp. A sharp running 365 hp Chev 327 would beat one and a 350 Lt1 370 hp solid lifter Chev in a 1970 or 71 Camaro would annihilate a 340 Dart or Challenger.. the 360 with more torque and decent compression cam and heads was the better choice.
@@jjtool5800 you re right about the 360. You re wrong about the 340. The hipo 365 and 375 hp 327 Chev and the 350 370 hp solid lifter Chevs beat 340s consistently. Not to mention the hot versions of the 351 Cleveland engine.
These are two good power plants really glad you tested these.
Rich do you have any experience with small block olds ? I'd love to see some 350 olds content. I think a battle of the GM 350s would be interesting to see how each division did something a lil different from each other
The rocket was a rocket 🚀
The Olds 350 was great on paper. Big bore, able to bolt on a big block head, and six inch connecting rods. Chevy fans back in the day used to drop post 1968 327 cranks into 400 blocks using special oversize bearings, and search for long connecting rods just to get a high rev package like this. Unfortunately the main webs of the Olds 350 are a little thin for four bolt mains.
But, find yourself a block made before 1977, and that block can be bored out to a 425 big block piston...365 cid. Find a forged 330 cid crank or a nodular Olds 350 crank, offset grind its stroke to aftermarket six inch long Chevy small block connecting rods, and you're looking at 380 cid. Depending upon the cam, it still may not be enough for the big block heads, tho--Olds found out the small block heads with big block valves were perfect for the Ram Rod/ W31 package.
@@albertgaspar627 my 350 is in stock unrunning fashion in a 71 Cutlass. Its eventually getting an LS but would love some inspiration to get the 350 running to enjoy the project for now and for a future build up for another project
@@Rider0909 You can give your Olds 350 the classic build--4 bbl intake, tune the Q jet, find an HEI, build a 4-4-2 style cold air intake out of dryer hose, and put on relatively small primary headers. Go with a mild cam that builds torque rather than HP at high RPM. Olds were designed for torque to accelerate down the road, so build to its strengths.
@@albertgaspar627 that would be the plan just looking for something i can enjoy and drive daily not trying to race or neccessary impress anyone
Takes a Mopar to catch a Mopar!..... If the 360 had been fresh with the same compression, i reckon it would have been dead nuts on or dare i say.... A little more?
If it had been ran with an electric water pump and no alternator like the 350 it would have made the same power or more.
A lot more
@@BuzzLOLOL horsepower rating from Chevy always seem comparatively high, as most those 350’s couldn’t really out run 340 dart or 340 6bbl cuda’s.
Check out cars and zebra we're 340 duster takes out ZL1
I definitely agree with that buzz running in the 11s with no headers something's going on
I'd be interested in seeing flow bench charts for both of the ported heads.
great video. just a curiosity. you mentioned the Ford 351 Windsor. what about the 351 Cleveland. all though they have the same displacement and are similar enough to interchange some parts they are different enough that they aren't fully interchangeable. have you ever done a direct comparison of the two different Ford 351.
I'd love to see that modded 360 dodge as is, vs same setup, but pistons/rods swapped side to side (arrows pointing rearward after swap).
I have a stock bottom end 360 j heads hemi grind cam in my 85 d150 and it runs12, 90s they are a good old motor It came out of a van and all i did was put my top end on it
They are like twins lol. Just like you expected haha thanks Richard
"That wouldn't give people anything to complain about." Haha, so true. So true.
Richard, you should Dyno test race car stickers! I.E. Crane Cams sticker on a SBC versus Isky Cams sticker.
Absolutely! We all know that small stickers are worth 5hp, large are 10hp, and a trashcan for a muffler is an easy 100hp.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Equal all the way,(compression) mopar will make more power.... it already has a race base built into it. Valve angle, plug angle, wide pan rails and hi cam to crank placement for less windage, wider bore centers which helps bigger ports and valve placement, and shorter pushrods for less deflection, railt type rockers for more stability stability . And rod ratio.
And 190 cc truck flows are about the best heads you can find
6.125" Rod on all LA engines
@@joshkeasler512 x a d j heads and w2 and up.
I own w2 340, also flow benches aren't always what they seem.
A debate that will never end nor ever have a final conclusion. And that's great. If we all liked the same thing, the world would be boring.
Correct and this makes grudge match racing fun
Exactly why I would never drive a Chevy. Dime a dozen everybody had one . No thanks .
I'm a chevy guy but I like the sound of the mopar starter. Lil off subject but hey.
I think it had a gearbox in it and was kind of geared down for more power.
Mopar starters were gear reduction starters....no torn up flywheels....
Love this Video helped me so much with my 350 I'm building. Using 1.560 4vr to bring compression around 9:5-1 with 64cc iron heads I have a voodoo 256/262 cam a edelbrock air gap and a avs2 650 I am excited for my 72 3/4 ton chevy with 3.55 and a th350 with a heavy duty shift kit
I always remember the old timers saying, that Mopars will pass anything but a gas station.
jajaajajajajajaa real true .. when speed clock be rise , the gasoline go down ..
you have to tow your gas tank .. jajajjaaajajajajaaa
Great video, much better than most of the hour long videos you have done recently.
the live feed are usually 1 hour to answer all the questions
The one I’ve been curious about! 💪🏼
Seems like both engines would be at home in a full size van or half ton truck. Nothing super but you should be able to merge onto the highway without getting run over.
Thank you for this episode.
Im thining it will be a great daily driver mill for my 46 Ford Coupe
Cool test. Maybe try a 350 vs 360 vs 351W with popular aftermarket heads and a streetable hydraulic roller? All fresh motors.
THAT IS PLANNED
@@richardholdener1727
i absolutely agree! cubic inch is the even player! doesn't matter what brand.
So you're saying two very similar pushrod wedge-head V8s with similar displacement and upgrades make essentially the same power? 🤯 lol great video, I love Mopars but this just puts in perspective how dumb it is to think one brand is superior to another.
About time been asking about this battle thank you.
Ok yeahish comparison dished pistons VS flat w/ valve cut aways. Oh did the mopar vavle job include the back cut? The gm was basic refresh the mopar was a put in bolt on. Now does it show the gm needs the bottom up refresh to compare with the mopar top side slide in and bolt on?
GREAT VIDEO RICHARD!!!!! BOTH ARE PERFECT FOR ANY DAILY DRIVER!!!!! GREAT VIDEO AND THANKS FOR SHARING!!!!
What causes that little torque dip in the dodge motor? I thought changing the cam would help but it still appears to be there. You can actually feel that driving these motors around
I am going to guess the low compression may have caused the torque dip.
I built a 1600$ 360 yrs ago, J Heads,340 Intake,484 Purple Shaft w Factory adjustable rockers, Windage Tray, Stock 645 rods and pistons .090 in the Hole,had a 999 trans.and used a Slant6 Converter &3.91 gear, in a 70 Duster at 3300lbs. Embarrassed alot of guys with Stuff Costing Thousands$$$$ More.Always got Accused Of Running NOS, never did. 360 gets Too Little Respect, but it's got Long Rods(6.123") and a Longer Stroke than a 383 or 400 BigBlock.It just needed More Compression.My.02😉
400 mopar has a far bigger bore though lol.
@@frigglebiscuit7484 Bigger than a 440 and makes a Great Stroker
350 all day baby!!! No competition at all. Most reliable engine ever!
Lol sure
318 is more reliable. Take the oil pans off and look at the Crank/mains.... im not trying to be a mopar fan boy and couldn't care less as to a preference over each other but truly no comparison. The small block mopar is built alot stronger
@@ufarkingicehole waaaayyyyyu stronger
so you think a Mopar 318 or 360 will make more power Big Bang style than a SBC or SBF?
@@richardholdener1727 hahahaha. I am going to carefully word this. .. I would say with the much heavier parts inside the small block mopar you will have an extreme amount of rotational energy (stress) from the much heavier crank. The extra rotating mass will create much more stress on the mains. .... so ... i assume the small block chrysler under "normal" loads will hold up better than the small block chevy. Under "Richard Holdener" loads I'm not sure the crank that weighs twice as much as the chevy and three times heavier than fords at 7000 rpm is going to hold up as well.
With that said..... sure. With all engines properly balanced I'm sticking with the mopar 🤣 you only live once. I'm willing to bet you already have the answer!
Thank you once again for the awesome video 👍
Great work Richard, 26k views thats great!
79k now
That was a fair comparison for the most part.
All things being equal we woukd have seen the Dodge make more power simply because of the stroke and the rod/stroke ratio. Valve and spark plug location also favors the Dodge.
In a daily driver they're too close to favor either one. The Chevy will idle rougher and sound meaner at idle...the Dodge will idle much smoother and sound sweet on the top end.
Can't miss with either one. Definitely have a soft spot for Mopar, but not going to give up my LT or Vortec
im torn between jumping on the ls bandwagon or sticking with sbc ive had so much fun with lt1 and vortec 350 i dont want to move on
You can’t lose just be aware that a extreme built old school is only gonna make what a lightly built ls .with stock heads the ls is king once you change heads it changes things but ls is still king by design with bigger camshaft core and high flow heads
@DropDstar i dont use carbs or distributor on sbc its so easy to wire ls coils and efi The only thing that’s holding me back is all the motors I already have
@DropDstar ive also got a few 171702 turbos and several others off semis that are in good condition so i dont think im going to need nitrous to scatter a 500 hp rated rotating assembly im too cheap to buy forged
@@bill2178 remember, ls swaps are not as cheap as people want you to believe....
I lean towards Chevy stuff more commonly, but the mopar small blocks have a few features that I really like.
I just wish the Mopar motors had parts with Chevy prices.
I like both but sometimes the Mopar is cheaper because apart from pistons the stock engine is tough and stock parts will make 450 Hp without breaking everything.
@@petergoodwin2465 cheaper??
@@joshkeasler512 sometimes, stock crank and rods handle plenty of power and the valve train will go to 6500 . Can't do that with a Chevy.
@@petergoodwin2465 I ran a roundy round car with stock powdered rods stock 1 pc rear main crank for 3 years at 7200 ,,rpm with stock gm cast heads and a quadrajet
Good comparison study. A good test with one of these engines is, what mods can you make without impacting emissions? Or can you modify your engine and use a good high flow three way converter so that you can still pass emissions.
Federal Regulations Apply since 1965.....More stringent State Regulations vary, Be careful Who you Vote For !!!!
chevy fan here...i must say im impresssed with 440 ftlbs from the 360 with no cam....that makes an awesome daily driver, especially with a manual trans....thanks, richard for going overboard on these comparisons.....love the other guys perspective....i want chevy to produce abig block style inline 6 with an ls style aluminum head....what are the chances ??....love the horsepower n happyhour!!...i want to build a small block for my truck and would like some advice if possible....russell in va
Thank you this awesome video made my day
I cc'd 1975 974 iron 360 heads with stock 1.880 Int, 1.600 Exh. valves at 70/71cc. Head was still factory and without any sign of milling.
I would like to see a comparison between a Chevy 350 and a 351 Cleveland
Everybody nose 350 motors were the throw away motors. Even the 350 conversion deisal was worthles
350 - completely rebuilt, fresh engine with aftermarket pistons and probably higher CR than advertised. Run without water pump or alternator.
Old, high milage worn out 360, run with water pump and alternator, and gets very similar results to 350.
That speaks a lot too me man. Tells me the 360 is the real powerhouse. It's worn out and running an alt and water pump and still hanging with a brandy new 350 with no extra accessories lmao
if only he said exactly that in the video!
Are you sure about the compression ratio of the chevy? I built a 350 with 64ishcc heads. -6cc flat top pistons stock crank/rods .19 head gaskets and my ratio was static of 9.6
And you said the chevy had 76cc head with flat tops had 9.4🤷♂️
I have had 350 360 and 351w. In my experience all decent power. I lean 360 dad leans 350. We bicker back in forth both of us love both.
But in a related thoughts gonna make the Ford guys flip here. Do a comparable 351 shootout. All 3 of them. All 3 stock then if ya have somethin or someone wants em modify them. The Windsor Cleveland and Modified. That might prove enlightenin.....
Those are much more similar than I would have expected but I guess all the old motor were about the same now with all the valves and cams they are different
I noticed that the 355 was pictured with an electric water pump vs the 360 with a belt driven pump and alternator what are the parasitic loss differences between the two?
So you didn’t use a descent 340! You gave the Chevy an advantage right off the bat!
Thanks, Richard. This helped A LOT!
I just realized I am on my work account. This is AZMADMONK from last night.
Dad had a '73 Sportsman Van 360. Same upgrades, but he ran two four barrels, Hooker headers and re-worked the rockers. So, I was guessing close to 400 hp and probably around 500 ft lbs of torque. This video helps and no wonder it would fly.
I just bought a 73 360 Dodge Sportsman with an all original PRISTINE 23ft coachmen RV addition
90,000 original miles and it starts on the first crank every time ( although I have to give it 2 quick pumps before I start it when cold which is completely normal for any carbureted motor) but it runs really good and has a nice idle with no smoke whatsoever out the pipes and no leaking anything anywhere…..right now I’m throwing some SEAFOAM thru it….I buy the larger pro size bottle so I can pour half bottle in the oil and half in the fuel …..that is always my method
Thanks for great info as usual
Richard. Have you done a clip on a Chevy 400 sb. From mold to a street bruiser for a daily driver an play a little bit on the track? I think back n 02 or 03 they had an article on the Chevy 400 called the Impersonator. I'm curious if it was correct.
In the end I think it boils down to polished valve covers vs painted, and are the muffler bearings the same size and chrome plated or plain?
A 350 from the 60s-80s would be a cool comoarsion against the 350 tbi and 350 vortec before the LS (and LT) change over.
9.2 to 1 is actually pretty good for the big chamber heads. Am curious how far down the hole the factory pistons are
76cc Chev heads and single valve relief pistons will not be 0ver 9-1. Closer to 8-5-1'
64cc heads about 9.5-1
@@BuzzLOLOL with a 4.03 gasket and 0.037 quench clearance you can get to 9.2. Thats why i asked, its right at really whats possible with over the counter builders stuff. With 0.02 quench clearance it only gets you to 9.5:1.
Both are Great Motors.
The comparison though had way too many differing variables for my liking..... appreciate your efforts though.
Sbc designed in the mid 50s with a 23 degree head and short rods LA sbm designed in the mid 60s 18 degree heads and over 6 inch rods in stock form they are a more advanced design. In theory the sbm would be a better platform if it had the huge aftermarket like the sbc has.
Let’s freshen up the360 with high compression pistons and fresh parts.
Good information 👍
I’m curious to see
what just changing the intake would do. I want to see those power numbers before the other mods
we did that
Drove both in my 95 Chevy and my dad's 89 Dodge both are great
Similar air pumps are similar!
CHRIS GETS IT
@@richardholdener1727 I liked the 383 mopar versus the 383 chevy...that was a good contrast on engine masters. Same displacement but different results. Marked difference in low end torque and then the curves coincided over the rest of the power range. I'd say the air pumps were different in the 383 test case.
Facts matter. Now we can look to do the little things that make any rebuild that little bit better, Thanks
Richard, the Chevy had an electric water pump, the Dodge had to spin a mechanical pump and an alternator. Is it safe to say the Chevy had a ten HP advantage there?
Dodge had a set of points installed by UTG. Good for 4 HP. So it balanced out.
NEED TO REVERSE THOSE PISTONS
Granddaddy ran whiskey in a big block Dodge (1957) hemi. He said his 300 would embarrass a 57 Chevy.
I think stock Mopar cam lifts of the late 1970's to early 1980's era had around a .390" to .410" lift with stock rockers. ...if I remember correctly. The 360 might have had a slightly higher lift than the 318, not much if that is correct.
Easy to figure this one out. The one with the best flowing heads will win all else the same.
The 882 heads on the Chevy engine are some of the worst heads ever made for the small block Chevy, also they upped the valve size without unshrouding the chambers, that killed the flow of the head. It would have flowed better with the stock size valves.
I can speak from much experience having beat the living s$!t out of the 350 Chevy, 360 Dodge and 351w in dirt track racing (a Cougar,Satellite and Camaro respectively)
The Chevy 350 can withstand the most abuse of the 3 of them hands down! Also discovered that the 727 transmission could withstand more abuse than the th350 or the c4.
And when I say abuse I mean excessive abuse!
If anyone has been around any dirt track stuff you outta know what I mean. However you can build any engine to run good, but I'm talking in stock trim, whether they had 2bbls on them or a quadra jet or a thermoquad or a Carter or whatever, in that fashion a 350 Chevy will take the most abuse of the 3 engines hands down! Cannot speak on the Buick,Olds and Pontiac deals, but do know the Oldsmobiles made a lot of torque in stock trim.✌
Not my experience at all . Get a chevy red hot over heated. The heads crack. Under the valve seats. The lifters started ticking and burnt the head gaskets right out of the motor. The 360 is way thicker heavier duty block and heads. Let my mopar cool down. I burned the exhaust manifold gaskets out . I changed the oil replaced the gaskets no ticks no knocks ran for another 50k . The Chevy was junk just like it was from the factory.
Performance old school rv cam 206-212 444 lift. Stock ls1 camshaft 500 lift 202-210 is this because ls heads flow so much more stock
Any "vortec" head flows way more than a ported sbc head. Us in the gen 3/4/5 can slap. A huge cam in a stock engine and the head will flow good enough. It's how you can make a 550 hp 6.0 with some rec port heads and a cam. Tech has come a far ways
nothing special about an ls except it has good compression and heads stock. thats it. any aftermarket head can flow that cfm and be put on any old v8, with the same compression, and make the same or more hp than the ls.
Does the 727 auto trans kick hard behind these 360?
Like these vids but as with many such tests with a Mopar motor, the Mopar is not fitted with a legit Mopar cam. What does that mean? Mopars use a larger diameter lifter which afforded a steeper ramp angle on the cam, so lift-for-lift, the Mopar cam had a meatier power band, and why Mopars performed so well stock vs. the competition, despite typically being down on advertised horsepower. Most any large cam manufacturer (Crane, Comp, Edelbrock, etc.) historically just used the same lobe profile across all cams (though this may have changed in recent times - haven't done this stuff for a while). These days, what with the near infinite variation in cams, heads, induction, etc., the Mopar lifter advantage is gonna be small if not in the noise, but with motors that are basically stock mid-performance 4 bbl motors as these are, it will matter a bit.
That all said, I prefer the design of the LA motor vs. SBC beyond the cam advantages - both in design (shaft mount rockers, longer connecting rod, larger diameter rod and main bearings for the 360) and working on them (don't have to remove the distributor to remove the intake manifold, the timing cover is much more robust (less leak prone), no drama about having to find a 4-bolt block, all LA motors were 2-bolt mains, and plenty strong).
The Lunati 256 for my mopar 383 was designed for the larger lifter diameter....and I truly believe it makes a big difference. Steep ramps and long duration are allowed while still having a cam that is tame with good idle.
Hey Richard, my chevy 350 engine is very similar, 6 cc 4 valve relief flat tops .040 over with stock 462624 heads. Pistons .020 down in the hole. About 8.7:1 compression. Holley street dominator dual plane, edelbrock 600 cfm carb, stock manifolds. I put a comp 268H in it, and the low end torque is kinda sad. Ive been thinking about changing it out for the comp pure energy 246. Any thoughts on the idea?
please see the 268 vs 246 cam test video
@@richardholdener1727 I’m having trouble finding it, what is the video title? Or can you post a link?
Question for someone in the comments I'm building a sbc for my 1970 gmc with a mild cam and flat tops but should I use some l30 heads with some bowl work. Or should i wait and try find some 906 vortecs or something along that line.
I want it to be a good 350 hp 400 foot pound motor that I want to last.
Cam is just the summit 1106
It's a 350
vortec heads
906 vortecs and and a cam that makes good low end tq
Where rivalry like this really pays off, is the chap who is building a rat rod and can pluck any engine from a junkyard and wants cheap power to do burnouts. I don't know about the rest of you, but the LS craze has led around here to cheap aftermarket used parts hitting the marketplace--and I can load up on cheap Chevy SB intakes, headers etc all day long to make more power than OEM. The 360...sadly not as much out there. I've only picked up one manifold so far.
Yeah and if I see another hot rod with a 350 I'll fall asleep.
@@danw6014 Truly agree. The average rat rod (truck cab on a chassis) is basically a Fad T brought to life--it needs less than 300 hp. The average throw-away Buick V6 made after 1979 can do 1hp per cubic inch without much work, and would put less weight in the chassis.
As for the fatter fenders, I truly get how affordable a Chevy small block is after patching up a bunch of sheet metal and doing a 12 volt conversion, and its a period correct engine, but....snnoozzzzze.
@@albertgaspar627 to me it would be interesting to see a souped up stove bolt Chevy, or the leaning tower of power, a flathead Ford V8 or a Firedome out of a Desoto, but I like a nostalgic hot rod.
@@danw6014 Funny you say all that. When my father passed he left a 2007 Chev Colorado single cab, and now that I put enough miles on it, I want to use it to put together a rat rod parts catching truck (I live in the rust belt) since I miss having something to grab all the free stuff on FB Marketplace.
I have a 283 lying around that would be...symetrical in looks. But an inliner would be neat, too. If I get another project car with a six holer and enough displacement, I'll try to slip that longer block into the Collie's frame. Not symetrical at all, but jeez, a sixer and a three on the tree to shift it...
it would make it worthwhile to not have air conditioning :) Just roll down the window, stick out an elbow, and haul two hours to pick up something free. Wouldn't even bother to factor in the gas cost, it would be just a nice "sunday drive" in an old truck with a more modern suspension for my old back, a sixer with split exhaust thru the old glasspacks hanging in the garage...
makes me laugh a little at a young buck who wanted his diesel truck to haul at 100 mph and talked turbos and the like. I'm sure he's having fun showing off...and i'm just the ol' guy one day in the future chuggin' down the road and scanning yards for new projects with an old rat rod truck made of cheap/free parts left over in the garage after years of swap meets and old projects and things folks gave to pay off helping them move.
@@albertgaspar627 I'm more interested in nostalgic hot rods. A souped up inline six would be interesting. It would take creativity to make power and make it fit. But even a flathead Ford or a Firedome Desoto would be more unique.
I put a 871 on my LA360 with a 258 degree cam, o ringed the block and turned it up to 27 psi.
Made 946 hp at 6300 rpm on stock rods too!
It was a beast.
Good episode. I rebuild couple of these motors and there are more interesting differences about them like parts prices, chevy wins in that matter of course but.... Dodge have roomier crankcase and can be stroked higher than chevy, dodge also has fool proof camgear/distr gear connection and much stronger rocker arms. although i prefer water pump on chevy, the list goes on and on...
LA rockers? Quite poor. LA dissy drive,, that over stressed hex,, like a Ford.
Mopar can make 400ci easier. Chev block is too short BUT fits in tighter places. Factory 400 Chev is a dog. Though some dogs run quite fast. But not for as long!
Love it!
Still cheaper to build the SBC but those Dodge 360 got loads of torque
Ok what I got was a rebuilt SBC vs an old tired Mopar? If you want a beans to beans comparison you need to do the same things to both engines.
no
Mopar is also a tad heavier, somewhat bulkier and way more expensive to mod than its GM cousin in my experience. I've had a 318 with a manual in an A body for 20 years now and enjoyed it every second but Iwish parts would be cheaper and as plentiful as they are for the SBC.
mopar also doesnt need to buy as many parts to fix gms screw ups from the factory...