As someone who regularly uses a professional-grade laser cutter, here are my suggestions: 1.) Use something that can run faster than an arduino for your control, perhaps a KFLOP or other motion control board, 2.) have the airflow work as a downdraft table, intake should be in the front and exhaust should be in the back (as you have it now), 3.) purchase a hexagonal metal grid to hold material. Good video and good luck!
Thanks Michael for the input, much appreciated! Arduino doesn't control the motion, as that would be way to slow! :D I use a Pokeys56U with an external pulse generator that can pulse at 125kHz which is acceptable. I believe you are correct with the Downdraft airflow, as when I started early on! I did tons of searching on that and came to the conclusion that it probably was the best way for sure, my question is more, on how to get it evenly across the whole bed! :) I'm definetly going to buy some hexagonal/honeycomb grid to test. Luck I will need :D Thanks
min 10:29, i suggest don't make another table to the machine but one platform to you stand in (on the ground surounding the table), so you go up, not the machine go down :D, less expensive and much more ease to do and you dont need dismount everything.
hehe I Know... Buuut for me its kind of an workaround solution, although cheap and good... just not a good way to permanently solve it... and also the machine is to big for the space thats beeing used. But I have everything figured out... and will show in a future video. Thanks for the suggestion Eduardo, Cheers
I've just got my K40 type laser running with GRBL 1.1f on a generic Arduino clone & CNC shield (less than £10 delivered). GRBL now has a laser mode where the trigger is synchronised with G1 moves and optionally laser power with motor speed, to account for the time spent accelerating the motors. Control is then by Laserweb4 and this is looking like a really nice tool chain from some initial playing. It will accept SVG, DXF, bitmaps etc. You can create multiple operations, so cutting and engraving can be combined easily. It can control bed height, so cuts in thicker material can be done in multiple passes with the bed moving up to keep the laser optimally focused. If you seal your extraction reasonably well to the under bed area , then you can cover unused sections of the bed to create more powerful localised extraction, along one edge of a piece being engraved for example. For your larger bed design, look into beam expanders. The energy will be transmitted more efficiently as a 2 to 5 times diameter beam, before finally being focused.
Jeeez Paul :D - consider me very interested now ;) Ok! so I can't explain myself out of, not trying the GRBL on a arduino clone + shield, as £10 is freaking cheap, so that's going into the basket! And if Laserweb4 can do all that, well, I'll be damned... Most definetly worth to give it a go. (Although one question, how fast can the Arduino/CNCShield pulse to the stepper driver?) Covering unused sections of the bed, is certainly one way to improve/concentrate suction! and cheap as well. Depending on what kind of suction system I'm going for this is worth considering. Beam Expander, I can't believe I've never seen this before! from all my searching on lasers :D most definetly something that I need to research! Big thanks for All the comments and thanks for watching :) (And a Stupid Question: How would a beam expander make it more efficient when there's now a bigger diameter beam hitting more air over same distance? ) No matter what I need to read up on this! There's probably some physics I'm missing here :D as from the brief research I've done it should increase the power and as a bonus minimize mirror damage (dust/particles) due to the beam power beeing spread across a higher area! :)
As I recall, the maximum step frequency under GRBL is around 30kHz. Certainly speed doesn't seem to be an issue on my K40 using maximum microstepping. Since microstepping is more for smoothness and reduction of resonance in stepper systems, than it is for improved resolution, there's always the possibility of a step multiplier using a Phase Locked Loop. One of the Gecko drives has this option built in, I think. From what I understand, an expander reduces the beam divergence in inverse proportion to the expansion ratio, so a 5 times expander results in the divergence being reduced to 1/5th that of the original beam. The larger beam also focuses to a smaller spot, increasing the power density in the cut. I'll try and do an update video on my K40 soon and when my workshop gets a little warmer, I'll do something on my Denford Easimill CNC too. I've just re-started a full rebuild and update and have recently bought a set of closed loop stepper motors, matching drives and power supplies.
Thanks for the answers Paul, appreciate it. I'll look into the topics and include them in the upcoming conclusion video... I watched your K40 video, so I'm very interested in an update for sure :) and the closed loop stepper motors is something I'm also VERY interested in ;)
Yeah, it is cheap but I was too sceptical so I didn't go for it, due to speeds beeing a factor! have settled for a Ruida now but haven't bought it yet... still designing, going slowly though
Very cool. What about a downdraft table, essentially a vacuum table, to draw the smoke down and out and also it could hold work down flat. It could also keep the smoke away from the rails, mirrors, tube, etc.
I have several ideas regarding the exhaust location. I use the Trotec400 (120 watt) laser cutter at my university, and when I am engraving acrylic. I notice the direction of the exhaust does affect the finished product. if your raster direction is aligned with the suction, the small debris (from engraving) will be in the way of your laser. Also if you put the exhaust in the bottom you can use it to create low pressure to force light sheets like paper to stick to the bed while cutting Also the Trotec laser cutter had a hose next to the nozzle to pump air away from the mirrors so it doesn't get covered in smoke. If I turn this air pump off, the cutting flames would literally burn the tip of the nozzle. I don't know how powerful your laser is, but it might be useful to protect your mirrors and the nozzle. For exhaust, you can implement some sort of a valve to the have the option of creating suction from the bottom when cutting to prevent smoke from going up, or from the side above the sheet when engraving. Really cool machine btw. This makes me wanna build my own laser cutter.
Hehe Thanks for the comment Abdul 😉 no worries is also alot of rambling going on in the video so you are excused 🤓 the small debris I have noticed from my airassist so I definetly know what you mean by that. also by creating that downwards draft is going to abit difficult with the bedsize that I'm having but ofcourse could put in some sheets to direct it somehow for sure. With my current nozzle and mirror holder I luckaly don't have any issues with smoke nor fire as I pump air through the nozzle to keep a positive pressure. But the smoke extraction is something I'm going to need to think hard about, as you say. Trying to see if I can aim at getting good results for cutting and engraving also considering the space required, as I want it compact aswell. I wish I had access to a laser cutter before I started 😁 as I never knew these factors going into this project beforehand 🤓 Thanks for the tips, I'm collecting them as they come so I don't miss any going in to the final Update.
@@InventorsFactory I have a thought here if you have enough airflow I would do a proportional with 40% being drafted from on top, and 60% from the bottom. this would give a negative pressure from the bottom but not so much to distort thin materials. I would also start the cutting from the back and move forward and with your exhaust being in the back it would draw the smoke away from your future cuts.
If you want to lower it you can remove the casters and relocate them with a bracket, the only modification to the tables would be a few holes drilled in the legs, or if you don't plan on moving it, you can eliminate the casters altogether. That should lower it by about 15cm. For front intake, you can make shutters across the whole front and open the shutters you need and close the ones you don't. You could probably mount a fan or 2 on the laser mount itself so you can direct the smoke towards the back. You can add computer fans as an air intake with a filter so it doesn't intake dust from the shop. Right now it is set up with a negative pressure meaning there is only exhaust and that will create a lot more dust in the enclosure, you want to have a balance between intake and exhaust for the best airflow and the least amount of dust. Look up computer case air flow, it will explain the advantages of positive, negative and balanced air flow in an enclosed space. A weird idea popped into my head, maybe you can use the filters from a non vented stove top range hood to remove most of the smoke from the equation, then you wouldn't have to have an elaborate exhaust system
Hi there Ryan Kremer, good stuff, good stuff ! really :) Removing/Bracketing Wheels is a very good idea... I occasionally move it around, and we don't have a lifter of sorts so the Brackets to relocate wheels on the side will definelty decrease height around 10~13cm! Thanks for that one.. YES! It has been bubble'ing in my mind :) with the intake shutters, and I believe your suggestion is the way to go without making it to complicated and really functional ;) Fans on laser mount is optional if extraction is still an issue after upgrading! As I'd like to keep the laser head as free of extra's as possible! but a nice compact 3d printed part to house a fan or two is very possible... Intake Fans, yes I have been thinking about that aswell, but was actually only thinking about forcing the smoke direction to the back! With Filters added, I could eliminate alot of the dust from the shop, as there's always some wood dust in the air! So that's going down on paper for sure thx However now you mention PC cases, My own PC has Positive pressure to eliminate the dust coming in from all the open spaces in the case, and I know this very well... Just never really occured to me todo the same on the laser... I know I don't want Positive pressure in the laser ("Daaah :S") but try to make the negative pressure "Less Negative :D" so the airflow will mainly be coming from front to back creating the "Draft" underneath the bed sucking smoke into the stream as most lasers are configured, as I believe my current "Draft" is not that good! Hehehe Stove Filters! :D That is a weird Idea, although how good would it actually work! I have one of those filters at home! I should test that out, just out of curiousness :D Seriously thanks for the Comment Ryan, this was one of the useful one's PS: especially that you're the only one mentioning an actual "Good Idea" regarding the height of the machine, instead of building lift's, stairs, platforms, etc etc :D :D
Hi kakemanx from Norway and, well I have lived 8 of my teenage years in Germany so I'd say you were 98% there. Cause I probably have some leftover german accent 😜
With the sheet size i would recommend going to a standard manufacturing sheet size that you can get (2410 x 1210 here is Australia) you will be thankful in the future. Also i do not know why you would have an adjustable bed on a laser engraver, you are better off just adjusting the head height per job, i know it isn't as fancy (i was looking at doing it on mine) but it just isn't piratical and it is just another thing to go wrong, also it will cut your height right down. When going to a bigger tube you will need better cooling and you will probably want to invest in a water chiller unit, might need to consider that. With ventilation have it so that it draws air over the top, smoke rises so that is where you want it removed from. Also couldn't tell if you had one or not, might be an idea to add air assist to you laser head, should give you improved cutting. Dont know if you installed one but install a flow switch on your cooling line that will enable and disable you laser power, the last thing you want is using you laser with no cooling, have it set up so 10secs after you job finishes it turns the water pump off and that should also solve your problem of burning a hole through you table. These are just my thoughts and if you want help with designing it let me know, i do use Fusion 360 though.
Hi Alex, sorry for late reply, I was delaying it purposely as you really gave me something to think about and I didn't want to answer just to answer quickly. Here we go... Although making the machine 2410x1210 which also is the manufacturing sheet sizes here in Denmark, it's to big and hard to handle as I often change sheets, so it would be to much work. The place at our space is also limited... But the standard already cut sheets I buy are 1200x800 and I can typically buy as I need them and transport in the car without needing a trailer ;) Also the machine will be used for purely hobby projects so no need for something that big as I won't be making any mass productions. That said, if it turns out that I need a bigger one afterwards, I'll be waiting for your "I told you so" reply :D :D However the thing you mentioned about adjustable bed has really got me thinking and, I honestly can't remember last time that I used mine as I always just adjust the focus lense head!!! I kinda just got into my head that I didn't want limitations, but as you say making that much effort for an adjustable bed is really impractial! So it's going to be a stationary one which also simplifies it and gives me less height needed! So thanks for that ;) Bigger tube = better cooling CHECK! :D I know I need something better... however time will tell if I'm buying myself to one or dare take the diy way, not because it's cheaper, but cause I could :) I have air-assist, dual airbrush compressor which is fine, and very silent! ;) but am going to prepare for an option of connecting something more powerful but only when needed, as I want to limit loud things at the shop! Pump Off = Laser Off CHECK! I'm doing that, and really as you say, turning pump off after jobs would give me the safety part aswell, so yeah! that would simplify it... :) I'm slowly learning Fusion360 mostly for 3d Prints for now, and trying to go for the Cam stuff... so this is a good test to go further with Fusion, as it is the way to go... Thanks for the offer of helping but we've got 3 pretty good folks at the space that help regularly ;) Seriously Alex, thanks for watching and taking the time to write a comment with goodies, that got me thinking.
Hey I finally bought a cheap K40, 1-meter liner rails and 1-meter extrusions To get started I am running a MKS Gen Ramps 1.4 controller board. Which controller board are you using for your laser and what software are you using
Hi there Peter, thats awesome! Well I run my machine as a CNC Mill actually, I'm using a PokeysU56 and Mach3 Software. I don't know enough on the Ramps board to assist, but if you need help I would suggest joining this group on Facebook, as they know everything there is on especially the K40 ;) facebook.com/groups/LaserEngravingAndCutting/
Actually you could save a lot of time by building a platform around your cutter, where you could step up and be at any height you need - The profile material would still work well for that.
I could do that :) but it would kinda be making a workaround instead of just fixing the issue properly, as it is to tall even for people taller than me! :) and would take up more space than needed.
I was thinking that bringing fresh air in the top and exhausting out the bottom would make visibility better and help control contamination. Take that metal grid and sandblast the paint off the tips.
Yes the top bottom is cool and something I'm gonna test, as I have some doubts how well it will perform. Sandblasting the tips is a good idea for sure... I'm not going to throw them away as I want to try them! I was also thinking on putting them in a liquid to dissolve the paint of it as I don't have a sandblaster ;)
Hehe, hi Jeff, external fan check, only the mouth part and how is going to be the tricky one. a wide mouth is also what I think, and then to get the suction spread evenly across the bed area 🤔
InventorsFactory I could draw you something up. I’m in HVAC designer and I deal with airflow all day long. you’d want to have Louvers on the inlet. Airflow is definitely your friend in the auction side of exhaust fan.
I was thinking, (if it’s still relevant) why not put a slanted piece of plywood or some other material under the bed, so the scraps fall into a sort of collection bucket or trough on one side or underneath? That seems like it’d work. Maybe aluminum cause it’s generally more slippery?
Hi Skylatian, yes still very relevant ;) Good suggestion, suggestions on a funnel have been made but I haven't thought about slanted piece! That would take less space, question is the angle it needs inorder to slide properly, cause the bottom space of the laser I want to use for the electronics, watercooling, air assist, pc etc etc... Depending on the angle needed I might actually do that, also depending on what material I use under the bed, "if ex. aluminium" it will reflect the laser beam at an angle instead of pointing it straight back up! Thanks Skylatian, I'll consider it and do some slippery slope testing ;)
nice job, where does one buy the laser tubes like 100-1000 watt for cutting thin sheet metal? Better yet the laser system, all parts needed--- to plug and play
Thanks, well I honestly don't know really, never been looking for anything to cut metals. But can't be cheap. I bought my tubes at ebay but never seen further than 120w or so. And have not come across any website that is for laser and accessories yet. Sorry But happy hunting petsatcom
Electronics: 1) Faraday cage (metal case) like mentioned from other users against high frequency spikes. But if you don't do it good it's useless 2) twisted (and better also shielded) wires for at least wires which are close to the laser. Connect shield to earth 3) power supply: use hf filters
Hi Stefan, yes Faraday cage is a must for sure... I am using Shielded wires for the Laser PSU, but as you say! if it isin't done correctly it's useless! I'm gonna look into the hf Filters! Thanks
If you are grounding the shield, ensure you ground only one end, otherwise you will end up with a ground loop and end up radiating more interference. The cables going to the motors are also very susceptible to interference
for height, make some stairs auround, for EMC you need shielding and for the lines you need ferrites to avoid EMI into the arduino. Only changing the electronics will not work certainly.
Stairs would work somewhat! Look stupid though! but would like a better bottomframe and don't need it that tall anyways! :) as for the EMC and EMI! yes I definetly need to do that... just googled ferrites and am going to get some for testing ;)
Think about putting you lasertube on the x axis arm. I have a Weike LC 1612, that has a cutting area of 1600 x 1200mm, the alignment get tricky and there is a prower drop over the big distance. I have a plan of rebuilding it in a few years and some of your ideas I will use. And the most importen thing is putting the lasertube on the x axis arm, so there is no alignment/power drop there and using a cover for all the mirrors where I will pump in air so the smoke/dust from the lasercutting is keept away from the mirrors.
Hi Dann, thanks a lot for the comment, power drop I did anticipate, but didn't think about the tricky alignment over the greater cutting area! Thanks for that... I am actully in the middle of trying to design something compact for the X-Axis Arm, so I'll try and see how I would do it with the Tube aswell, to try and visualize it! I'm not really fond of it as the X-Axis becomes quite big and for a diy build risky putting a 70 - 120 cm tube on it :) Using air to keep a positive pressure for the mirrors and the tube casing is also big factor if mounting it on the x-axis gantry... I'll not be reaching your 1600 x 1200 more like 1300 x 900... but still! Quite curious now :) When you talk about power drop over the bigger distance, it is mostly an issue for vector/raster engravings right? As for me personally, Cutting is the main priority, so if I adjust it to cut in the furtest distance, it "shouldn't" affect the cutting at the closest that much right? Oh and that Weike LC 1612 looks pretty good! Love that it supports space for a dual tube installation, I'm thinking on supporting that aswell. And if you plan on rebuilding in a few years, I'll most definetly have done the upgrade by then and hopefully have some better answers/opinion at that time :) Thanks again Dann
Hi Gunnar The LC1612 I have only has one lasertube and cutter head, I need the bigger cutting area and It is a 100 watt laser. I get that you think it is risky to på the tube on the x axis arm, but I have been thing a lot about it and personally I don't se that much risk, at it is the not that heavy and compared to the pressure and weight a CNC machine experience it is not near the same. Just so you understand what I want to doe, it something like this ua-cam.com/video/136HqrXOMpw/v-deo.html but the power supply would still be mounted in the case of the lasercutter and still have the bed mounted horizontal. The ability for engraving should not be hampered by the tube being mounted there. My experience with smoke/dust is that the mirrors will take damage over time and if you cut something like mdf there will be more of it then with nylon or plywood. The power drop can be seen when the laser is align, when the distance to the mirrors are shortes the masking tape nearly evaporates if the laser is shot for more then a "millisecond" and when it is the longest then it take more time to get the same effekt. I compensate by using more power then needed when I cut, not much but enough to know that no matter where I am on the cutting surfe I will cut the way I want. The reason I want to use lower power is that it makes the tube last longer and you can doe some finer cuts. And some fanboy in Danish Det ser mega godt ud, det i laver Gunner. Jeg håber i vil være mere aktiv her online, for dit engelsk er godt og det er faktisk utroligt informativt. Så lav nogle flere video, det ville være et hit er jeg sikker på.
Hi Dann, ok I totally got the picture from what you want to do now and the arguments why you want to add the laser tube on the X-Axis gantry! From Daniel Hood's video it seems like no problem with a decent speed running with the tube and PSU on there. so can't argue about that :D I've gotta say for my machine that even though I clean them every 4~6 months (as a hobbyist with usage of 2~3days a week 4hours/session), there's hardly any dust on them, ever and I it's the same mirrors for 2½ years now... So I might actually have something positive going on even with the turbulencing flow of my smoke extraction problem I have ;) (Although, I can't really say if they have taken any damage, to the eye they look clean) Hmmm the power drop however is a real bummer, you're correct on that, and you've got the experience so! I'm gonna try and see what I can design with the tube mounted on the X-Axis and so on... as the longer lasting tube is most definetly a very good argument ;) (And if I chose not to and end up regretting! You can tell me: "I Told you so!" :D ) Hehehe Danish Fanboy :D Tusind Tak skal du have Dann, ville også gerne have der var mere aktivitet, men indtil videre er det kun mig der poster og laver videor ;) Men er lige så småt begyndt igen med video shooting ideer osv, da jeg også synes det er sjovt og spændende :D Også lige et spørgsmål! Hvad bruger du så stor en laser til? eller hvad skal den endnu større laser bygges til? er det hobby eller arbejde? :D
Hi Gunnar i think/know that my dust collection system is not the best. I need to doe some rebuilding of it and also need to enlarge the pipes. The blower motor is a impeller with a 250mm Ø port, but I am only running a 160mm Ø to it. So it is not enought and also the impeller pump is after the filter system, I think that it need to be before the filter system. Also I have not been that kind to the laser as it has cut fabric with chlorine in it. Will get back to that. I really need to get looking at aluminium profiles and rails for my project, because I don't think it is that expensive. How much travel doe you have on the bed of the lasercutter? Danish Fedt at der kommer flere videoer. Jeg synes det er spændende. Måske jeg skulle komme forbi en dag og se jeres maker space, bor selv i nærheden af Karup. Laseren blev oprindelig brugt til at skære stof med, mere præcist nylon stof og pvc lignende stof til et firma jeg havde sammen med en kamerat. Det er fedt at kunne skære sådan stoffer for du får et præcist produkt der ikke flosser fordi det er smeltet der hvor der er skåret og det gør syning så meget hurtigere.
Hi Dann, Yeah, the blower before the filter sounds right to me aswell. Chlorine eyh, that must do some form of damage to the surroundings for sure! Aluminium Profiles yes! they are cheap easy and really just make anything possible! :) I personally buy my profiles from Motedis germany they are also in UK and they have been my favourite. (And if you're looking for rails, check out cnc-discount.de ;) just saying) Long time since I measured but I believe I have a total travel 750x750mm guaranteed, i little more in of the axis though, but can't remember... Dann, ja helt sikkert, Karup er ikke så langt væk. Vi er der hver Torsdag fra kl 17, du finder os også under meetup, for adresse osv osv ;) Stof! ok! det forklarer jo lidt størrelsen på maskinen! og hvorfor du skal have en større! :D og det med flossing tror jeg gerne er en god bivirkning at komme af med ;) Ville også være meget intereseret i at se dit build når du går igang, bor selv i Ikast, så det er jo bare lige et hane-glop fra Karup
Machine Height: Can't you just add a little step/platform around the bottom of the laser cutter that you can step on to reach the stuff in the back of it? Great videos. Keep it up.
@@InventorsFactory Probably long past, but if the frame of the laser is not grounded (the extrusions) then grounding that would have a huge impact on an that also and be safer in the event of a mains failure.
You will have to change to a laser diode for such big laser machine, or use a bigger Y axis stepper motor and place tube in X axis. Power supply of more amperage might stop laser failure. I am surprised your machine has not catched fire yet!
Hi Alex, aren't laser diode's at same wattage pretty expensive? and yes moving the tube on the X-Axis will improve! but as said I haven't had issues yet! but will build it, so I could do that if it occurs, better PSU will most definetly be a good thing and it almost did catch on fire once (explained in Part4) however I'm always in the same area as the machine when cutting and can pull the kill-switch + fire extinguisher if anything should occur!
Sorry if this has already been suggested but what about using shielded cables ferrite beads and steel case. Some stepper controllers have stall sensors that can be used as soft limit.
Hey Paul, no worries, well I've tried with ferrite beads, and have shielded all the laser psu wires, but sadly had no effect what so ever... so for now, I've resolved in some more manual controls in order to avoid stopping the laser while cutting... Sadly my drivers don't have that feature, but I do know some have that which would have been a perfect idea... :D
From what I could tell your relay board had optocouplers so don't think anything would be coming from there. I assume you are using a switch mode power supply to run your Arduino. If you get a SMPS from a phone console you will have a low noise supply as any noise in them can be heard on the phone. Ferrite bead the line and run through an appropriatly sized zener to cut any spikes. Try to protect any I/O pins with optocouplers and resistors as appropriate. Shield the controls in a metal case and tie to ground. Use flyback diode on any inductive devices connected to the Arduino. Run earth leads as appropriate to the rest of your system. All earth's should run by the shortest route to a earth bar. Maybe fold up some perforated sheet as a cover for the laser module. Is there any way to measure or detect EMI around your cutter to find any trouble spots. I have suggested all I can think of and please take it with a pinch of salt as electronics is only a hobby for me. I am however a boilermaker and a fitter Turner and generally reasonable at engineering in general so please share with us any problems you are having. Your channel is looking very promising best of luck with your future projects and I look forward to learning from you along the way. PS check out the trinamic TMC5160 yes I know it's a ramps board but has some cool features that might interest you.
For exhaust, I would first off go with smaller diamterer fans. I would exhaust out the bottom, 4 holes, 90 degrees from each. That should give you an even vacuum? I will buy this machine as soon as you get done. :-)
Yeah! Gregory, the exhaust in the bottom is something I want to test at some scale to see if it performs! Honestly the normal front to back draft system is probably the best way, it's just mine at the moment isin't very good thats why it doesn't work so good! however the bottom extraction is something of interest! but lets see when the rough design is in place so I can do some tests! If the machine ends up beeing good! My first thought will be to use it! :D don't think I'm gonna be selling it anytime soon ;) But design plan, and bom is definetly something I'm going to be making this time! if any would want to pursue my Build ;)
what about carrying the signals from the sensors to the controller board using fibre optic cable and should not conduct interference back to the controller but you now need some type of sender that can take information from the sensor and send it to the embedded micro controller as light which gets converted back into an electrical inside the controller unit, just an idea.
That is most definetly an Idea, a pretty advance one but would probably solve the solution for sure... I would rather want to eliminate the problem all together instead of working around it! But let's see ;)
Hi Peter, well without really knowing the exact amount, I sure with what I've got right now is around 4k$, including the fails/mistakes/re'dos, probably more like 5k$ :) I could make it somewhat cheaper now, with the experience gained, but didn't think to much about the cost when I started... ;)
Maybe if you insert the air suction hole in the center of the bottom-center of the platform and you drill a same size hole in the upper cover the air flow will go on the entire surface of the part in the upper and lower side carryng the smoke away fron the lans and carriage.... this works if you place the center of the part on the center of the machine, if this is not good for you maybe some smaller holes distribuited on the cover wilk also work... For the electronics i think that just by screaning the HV wire of the laser in aluminium foil or in a pipe will solve the problem dumping thown the electric field created. Apologyze my english i am italian:)
Hi manuel from Italy Yes, air intake on the upper cover is also an option, that would definetly minimize smoke contamination to anything else! but would work best if the material was centered on the bed ;) I am very interested to know how the airflow would go if doing that! I might need to try a scaled down version of the machine from cardboard to see what works best for my needs! And yes screaning the HV wire would be a very nice thing todo! I believe I have some shielded wire somewhere I could use to see ;) Thanks for the suggestions and Greetings from Denmark
Good question AngryWelshMan, I would say it depends on either how cheap you can get a k40 or how cheap you can get all the individual parts for a diy one. For me it was not about price but that the k40 cutting area just wasn't enough... buying the k40, will also get you cutting right away, where diy will take time. I am not sure I'm the rigbt guy to answer that but honestly I gotta say the k40 is so cheap that I should maybe have bought one and just stripped it for parts for the diy build if I could go back. Also depends on skills and tools you got, to make a diy, as the tricky part is to align the laser beam across both axis for all its movement etc. Also from all the k40 laser groups I'm in, a k40 pretty much needs some upgrades from the get go. yeah, hope I had something of value here ;) Best of luck to you, Cheers.
For the fume removal why not attaching a vacuum hose near the nozzle as you would with a mill? Perhaps a 3D printed one that circum the nozzle. P.s. love your videos :-)
Hmmm! Thats actually quite a good idea Lars, not needed when cutting as the smoke will be pushed to the underside of the material but certainly good when engraving, no matter what! I'm gonna test it, but if the smoke extraction turns out to be bad when engraving that is definetly a viable solution! Thanks for the suggestion Lars ;)
For the Electronics, perhaps consider just buying a Ruida laser controller instead? For me, the ease of using the RDWorks/LaserWorks software, and not having to deal with manual G-Code and the CAM software was a HUGE improvement in productivity. For the exhaust port, BELOW the cutting area, if you can. For the inflow, you're almost always going to want to go from ABOVE the material to BELOW the area. I use simple, standard size filter in front of the exhaust port to catch heavier particles and dust. Might as well set up Z access limiters in parallel (first one pressed stops the whole thing). The under-drawers are an inspired idea, but why not just funnel everything that falls down into a 5 gallon bucket or two? If the material is slippery enough (use that neat new metal brake you bought to make a sheet metal funnel), it should be easy. OOPH? A complete rebuild? Why not just build a new one and use it for BIG stuff? Then you can keep this one, as-is for the bulk of your work.
Hi Sean Harrington, wow a lot of good stuff That Ruida is something I'm gonna have to look into, as the controller is a topic in the next one anyways ;) The exhaust port below is definetly something I'm pretty keen on, I must say. Putting the Z-Axis limiters in parallel wouldn't solve the leveling issue though! But actually brought me to another "Maybe" Solution I could look into. The Idea with the Funnel is actually a great Idea, however it's going to be a very big funnel! :D But a lot easier than making drawers and the work of making them fit etc etc! Hmmm! I'm gonna think about that one... The Last and best yet! Your on to something actually! Didn't cross my mind building a new one instead! I'm gonna let this one "boil in my brain" for a bit! As that could actually be a really good plan! Really appreciate the time you took to watch/listen & Comment Sean, Thanks
If you are able to set laser power during work, you may add an equation adding x and y axis and the higher the value, the higher the energy on the laser? (disclaimer: i dont know anything, just find it interesting.)
Yes indeed, that would actually be the thing todo for sure, but I don't control the power output from the software but manually... but but thats actually a very good idea, Mach3 is friendly what regards plugins and etc so making a small plugin to read out x and y and controlling the power through something would be feasible... 😉 thanks... I'll consider that when changes are to be made again...
My choice was to collect fumes at the source with a cyclonic smoke shoe : no smoke in front of the lens. This smoke collector needs hi psi so a small hacked vacuum cleaner do the job. A single 300mm long cylindrical fan from an old oven is enough to extract the remaining fumes. I wanted the fresh air to come from the front all along the bed surface and I drilled a série of 12mm holes in line. So there's a continuous air flow running above the bed in direction of the extractor at the back. But 90% of the fumes are collected near the beam.
Ok! Thanks Axel, that's also one way todo it for sure! I've never seen that solution before though :) you have any vids or posts on that! I'd love to see that ;)
Inventors factory : no video yet (I'm no UA-camr, just watcher) but it is inspired from the Cnc mill dust shoe. Nothing fancy. Here is my inspiration : m.ua-cam.com/users/ellogo6767search?query=Aspiration
Aah yes, see what you mean ;) It would work great if it was only for engraving, so it is not very suitable for the laser though! and is going to add a lot of weight to the nozzle on the X-Axis which I would prefer being as light-weight as possible. none the less an alternative I haven't thought of ;)
Well, your structure should be able to stand a moving fume collector. Mine is probably cheaper and I can run @22.000mm.mn with the collector on. I 3d printed my parts and the overall extra weight is
Hi Lud, yeah have no plans for the cnc machine I'm afraid, it was also a project which was made in progress without any real plans. I am however upgrading the cnc with a new controller, so I might make a brief video telling how the cnc is made!
Why do you need complete air flow across the entire bed (on the vertical axis). why not put a removable wall on both ends so that air is push/pulled into the compartment where the laser cutting is taking place. I think you mentioned previously that engraving was to be done in the bottom area? So why not just move the wall and force all air down when you're doing those. Otherwise force all air up between the cutting spikes and the top cover.
Hi David, well I want the smoke to clear no matter where I'm cutting on the grid, thats why I want an even airflow, I engrave at the same height as when cutting, only difference is that when engraving the smoke stays ontop of the material, and when cutting (with air-assist) the smoke goes under the material/bed :) But no matter, I believe I can't get best of both, but would prefer it getting better than what I have now ;) but forcing the Air from top cover down is interesting, I'll look into that, and make some tests :) Thanks for the comment
Why not re-use the existing fan as "push" and mount it on the front, and use the suction from the roof as "pull" on the back? That would increase air flow. (Disclosure havent built a laser cutter)
the photonsaw at OSAA extracts from the bottom, which allows for cutting very light materials like paper since they are lightly held in place by the lower pressure beneath the bed. you can (sort of) see it here: ua-cam.com/video/y_PsjElpon8/v-deo.html
Actually pretty nice bonus feature for that type of extraction setup... I gotta come out to you guys and see the machine! haven't seen any other laser cutter in real-life! Might get some ideas flowing from that ;) Thanks Mark
+That Dude There Good point 🤔 have tried doing that before the laser's time and never found a good one, Weld On 4 or similar should be the shizzle but I live in Denmark so there's none of that. Anyways I didn't need the box 😁 it was just a laser test too calibrate beam diameter and stuff like that 😉 And now that I have the laser! I am super lazy of any manual Labour 😁
I love this guy, he explains everything very nice and makes me more interested in science and technology.
Hope I will get an meet and greet with him.
As someone who regularly uses a professional-grade laser cutter, here are my suggestions: 1.) Use something that can run faster than an arduino for your control, perhaps a KFLOP or other motion control board, 2.) have the airflow work as a downdraft table, intake should be in the front and exhaust should be in the back (as you have it now), 3.) purchase a hexagonal metal grid to hold material. Good video and good luck!
Thanks Michael for the input, much appreciated!
Arduino doesn't control the motion, as that would be way to slow! :D I use a Pokeys56U with an external pulse generator that can pulse at 125kHz which is acceptable.
I believe you are correct with the Downdraft airflow, as when I started early on! I did tons of searching on that and came to the conclusion that it probably was the best way for sure, my question is more, on how to get it evenly across the whole bed! :)
I'm definetly going to buy some hexagonal/honeycomb grid to test.
Luck I will need :D Thanks
min 10:29, i suggest don't make another table to the machine but one platform to you stand in (on the ground surounding the table), so you go up, not the machine go down :D, less expensive and much more ease to do and you dont need dismount everything.
hehe I Know... Buuut for me its kind of an workaround solution, although cheap and good... just not a good way to permanently solve it... and also the machine is to big for the space thats beeing used. But I have everything figured out... and will show in a future video. Thanks for the suggestion Eduardo, Cheers
I've just got my K40 type laser running with GRBL 1.1f on a generic Arduino clone & CNC shield (less than £10 delivered).
GRBL now has a laser mode where the trigger is synchronised with G1 moves and optionally laser power with motor speed, to account for the time spent accelerating the motors.
Control is then by Laserweb4 and this is looking like a really nice tool chain from some initial playing. It will accept SVG, DXF, bitmaps etc. You can create multiple operations, so cutting and engraving can be combined easily. It can control bed height, so cuts in thicker material can be done in multiple passes with the bed moving up to keep the laser optimally focused.
If you seal your extraction reasonably well to the under bed area , then you can cover unused sections of the bed to create more powerful localised extraction, along one edge of a piece being engraved for example.
For your larger bed design, look into beam expanders. The energy will be transmitted more efficiently as a 2 to 5 times diameter beam, before finally being focused.
Jeeez Paul :D - consider me very interested now ;)
Ok! so I can't explain myself out of, not trying the GRBL on a arduino clone + shield, as £10 is freaking cheap, so that's going into the basket!
And if Laserweb4 can do all that, well, I'll be damned... Most definetly worth to give it a go.
(Although one question, how fast can the Arduino/CNCShield pulse to the stepper driver?)
Covering unused sections of the bed, is certainly one way to improve/concentrate suction! and cheap as well. Depending on what kind of suction system I'm going for this is worth considering.
Beam Expander, I can't believe I've never seen this before! from all my searching on lasers :D
most definetly something that I need to research! Big thanks for All the comments and thanks for watching :)
(And a Stupid Question: How would a beam expander make it more efficient when there's now a bigger diameter beam hitting more air over same distance? )
No matter what I need to read up on this! There's probably some physics I'm missing here :D as from the brief research I've done it should increase the power and as a bonus minimize mirror damage (dust/particles) due to the beam power beeing spread across a higher area! :)
As I recall, the maximum step frequency under GRBL is around 30kHz. Certainly speed doesn't seem to be an issue on my K40 using maximum microstepping. Since microstepping is more for smoothness and reduction of resonance in stepper systems, than it is for improved resolution, there's always the possibility of a step multiplier using a Phase Locked Loop. One of the Gecko drives has this option built in, I think.
From what I understand, an expander reduces the beam divergence in inverse proportion to the expansion ratio, so a 5 times expander results in the divergence being reduced to 1/5th that of the original beam. The larger beam also focuses to a smaller spot, increasing the power density in the cut.
I'll try and do an update video on my K40 soon and when my workshop gets a little warmer, I'll do something on my Denford Easimill CNC too. I've just re-started a full rebuild and update and have recently bought a set of closed loop stepper motors, matching drives and power supplies.
Thanks for the answers Paul, appreciate it. I'll look into the topics and include them in the upcoming conclusion video... I watched your K40 video, so I'm very interested in an update for sure :) and the closed loop stepper motors is something I'm also VERY interested in ;)
Yeah, it is cheap but I was too sceptical so I didn't go for it, due to speeds beeing a factor! have settled for a Ruida now but haven't bought it yet... still designing, going slowly though
Very cool. What about a downdraft table, essentially a vacuum table, to draw the smoke down and out and also it could hold work down flat. It could also keep the smoke away from the rails, mirrors, tube, etc.
Thanks Master Zebulon, It's definetly an option! but a tricky one! Good for cutting through but not good for engraving :)
For leveling the bed you could use a distance sensor mounted next to the laser. By driving around you could level the bed so.
Thanks shredder, That's also one way to go for sure.
I have several ideas regarding the exhaust location.
I use the Trotec400 (120 watt) laser cutter at my university, and when I am engraving acrylic. I notice the direction of the exhaust does affect the finished product. if your raster direction is aligned with the suction, the small debris (from engraving) will be in the way of your laser.
Also if you put the exhaust in the bottom you can use it to create low pressure to force light sheets like paper to stick to the bed while cutting
Also the Trotec laser cutter had a hose next to the nozzle to pump air away from the mirrors so it doesn't get covered in smoke. If I turn this air pump off, the cutting flames would literally burn the tip of the nozzle. I don't know how powerful your laser is, but it might be useful to protect your mirrors and the nozzle.
For exhaust, you can implement some sort of a valve to the have the option of creating suction from the bottom when cutting to prevent smoke from going up, or from the side above the sheet when engraving.
Really cool machine btw. This makes me wanna build my own laser cutter.
I made this comment before finishing off the video, so I apologize if I was saying something you already know or said in the video lol
Hehe Thanks for the comment Abdul 😉 no worries is also alot of rambling going on in the video so you are excused 🤓 the small debris I have noticed from my airassist so I definetly know what you mean by that. also by creating that downwards draft is going to abit difficult with the bedsize that I'm having but ofcourse could put in some sheets to direct it somehow for sure.
With my current nozzle and mirror holder I luckaly don't have any issues with smoke nor fire as I pump air through the nozzle to keep a positive pressure.
But the smoke extraction is something I'm going to need to think hard about, as you say. Trying to see if I can aim at getting good results for cutting and engraving also considering the space required, as I want it compact aswell. I wish I had access to a laser cutter before I started 😁 as I never knew these factors going into this project beforehand 🤓
Thanks for the tips, I'm collecting them as they come so I don't miss any going in to the final Update.
@@InventorsFactory I have a thought here if you have enough airflow I would do a proportional with 40% being drafted from on top, and 60% from the bottom. this would give a negative pressure from the bottom but not so much to distort thin materials. I would also start the cutting from the back and move forward and with your exhaust being in the back it would draw the smoke away from your future cuts.
If you want to lower it you can remove the casters and relocate them with a bracket, the only modification to the tables would be a few holes drilled in the legs, or if you don't plan on moving it, you can eliminate the casters altogether. That should lower it by about 15cm.
For front intake, you can make shutters across the whole front and open the shutters you need and close the ones you don't.
You could probably mount a fan or 2 on the laser mount itself so you can direct the smoke towards the back.
You can add computer fans as an air intake with a filter so it doesn't intake dust from the shop. Right now it is set up with a negative pressure meaning there is only exhaust and that will create a lot more dust in the enclosure, you want to have a balance between intake and exhaust for the best airflow and the least amount of dust. Look up computer case air flow, it will explain the advantages of positive, negative and balanced air flow in an enclosed space.
A weird idea popped into my head, maybe you can use the filters from a non vented stove top range hood to remove most of the smoke from the equation, then you wouldn't have to have an elaborate exhaust system
Hi there Ryan Kremer, good stuff, good stuff ! really :)
Removing/Bracketing Wheels is a very good idea... I occasionally move it around, and we don't have a lifter of sorts so the Brackets to relocate wheels on the side will definelty decrease height around 10~13cm! Thanks for that one..
YES! It has been bubble'ing in my mind :) with the intake shutters, and I believe your suggestion is the way to go without making it to complicated and really functional ;)
Fans on laser mount is optional if extraction is still an issue after upgrading! As I'd like to keep the laser head as free of extra's as possible! but a nice compact 3d printed part to house a fan or two is very possible...
Intake Fans, yes I have been thinking about that aswell, but was actually only thinking about forcing the smoke direction to the back! With Filters added, I could eliminate alot of the dust from the shop, as there's always some wood dust in the air! So that's going down on paper for sure thx
However now you mention PC cases, My own PC has Positive pressure to eliminate the dust coming in from all the open spaces in the case, and I know this very well... Just never really occured to me todo the same on the laser...
I know I don't want Positive pressure in the laser ("Daaah :S") but try to make the negative pressure "Less Negative :D" so the airflow will mainly be coming from front to back creating the "Draft" underneath the bed sucking smoke into the stream as most lasers are configured, as I believe my current "Draft" is not that good!
Hehehe Stove Filters! :D That is a weird Idea, although how good would it actually work! I have one of those filters at home! I should test that out, just out of curiousness :D
Seriously thanks for the Comment Ryan, this was one of the useful one's
PS: especially that you're the only one mentioning an actual "Good Idea" regarding the height of the machine, instead of building lift's, stairs, platforms, etc etc :D :D
Nice, was either that or german 😊
Norway here 😊
Hi kakemanx from Norway and, well I have lived 8 of my teenage years in Germany so I'd say you were 98% there. Cause I probably have some leftover german accent 😜
Air flow from the top to bottom could work well -
Getting the smoke out of the laser path as soon as possible, and avoiding it touching the lens
Yeah! I am pretty interested in that for sure... and I use air assist at all times to ensure nothing touches the lens ;)
With the sheet size i would recommend going to a standard manufacturing sheet size that you can get (2410 x 1210 here is Australia) you will be thankful in the future. Also i do not know why you would have an adjustable bed on a laser engraver, you are better off just adjusting the head height per job, i know it isn't as fancy (i was looking at doing it on mine) but it just isn't piratical and it is just another thing to go wrong, also it will cut your height right down. When going to a bigger tube you will need better cooling and you will probably want to invest in a water chiller unit, might need to consider that. With ventilation have it so that it draws air over the top, smoke rises so that is where you want it removed from. Also couldn't tell if you had one or not, might be an idea to add air assist to you laser head, should give you improved cutting. Dont know if you installed one but install a flow switch on your cooling line that will enable and disable you laser power, the last thing you want is using you laser with no cooling, have it set up so 10secs after you job finishes it turns the water pump off and that should also solve your problem of burning a hole through you table. These are just my thoughts and if you want help with designing it let me know, i do use Fusion 360 though.
Hi Alex, sorry for late reply, I was delaying it purposely as you really gave me something to think about and I didn't want to answer just to answer quickly. Here we go...
Although making the machine 2410x1210 which also is the manufacturing sheet sizes here in Denmark, it's to big and hard to handle as I often change sheets, so it would be to much work. The place at our space is also limited... But the standard already cut sheets I buy are 1200x800 and I can typically buy as I need them and transport in the car without needing a trailer ;) Also the machine will be used for purely hobby projects so no need for something that big as I won't be making any mass productions.
That said, if it turns out that I need a bigger one afterwards, I'll be waiting for your "I told you so" reply :D :D
However the thing you mentioned about adjustable bed has really got me thinking and, I honestly can't remember last time that I used mine as I always just adjust the focus lense head!!! I kinda just got into my head that I didn't want limitations, but as you say making that much effort for an adjustable bed is really impractial! So it's going to be a stationary one which also simplifies it and gives me less height needed! So thanks for that ;)
Bigger tube = better cooling CHECK! :D I know I need something better... however time will tell if I'm buying myself to one or dare take the diy way, not because it's cheaper, but cause I could :)
I have air-assist, dual airbrush compressor which is fine, and very silent! ;) but am going to prepare for an option of connecting something more powerful but only when needed, as I want to limit loud things at the shop!
Pump Off = Laser Off CHECK! I'm doing that, and really as you say, turning pump off after jobs would give me the safety part aswell, so yeah! that would simplify it... :)
I'm slowly learning Fusion360 mostly for 3d Prints for now, and trying to go for the Cam stuff... so this is a good test to go further with Fusion, as it is the way to go... Thanks for the offer of helping but we've got 3 pretty good folks at the space that help regularly ;)
Seriously Alex, thanks for watching and taking the time to write a comment with goodies, that got me thinking.
Excellent work 1k-up
Finally been waiting a minute for this
forgot to hit the bell
Hehe Yeah! took a little longer than a minute for this one ;)
How's your z-less Laser coming along? :)
Hey I finally bought a cheap K40, 1-meter liner rails and 1-meter extrusions To get started I am running a MKS Gen Ramps 1.4 controller board. Which controller board are you using for your laser and what software are you using
Also I cant find speeds and feeds for this thing any suggestions on that?
Hi there Peter, thats awesome! Well I run my machine as a CNC Mill actually, I'm using a PokeysU56 and Mach3 Software. I don't know enough on the Ramps board to assist, but if you need help I would suggest joining this group on Facebook, as they know everything there is on especially the K40 ;)
facebook.com/groups/LaserEngravingAndCutting/
Build a removable walk way or step on deck to elevate your height for easy access.
LoooL, that was Funny :D
It might actually be the easier solution ;) Definetly faster!
Actually you could save a lot of time by building a platform around your cutter, where you could step up and be at any height you need - The profile material would still work well for that.
I could do that :) but it would kinda be making a workaround instead of just fixing the issue properly, as it is to tall even for people taller than me! :) and would take up more space than needed.
Hey been checking out your channel. Great job thus far. Keep up the good work!!
Thanks +TheCarGeek101, appreciate it ;)
I was thinking that bringing fresh air in the top and exhausting out the bottom would make visibility better and help control contamination.
Take that metal grid and sandblast the paint off the tips.
Yes the top bottom is cool and something I'm gonna test, as I have some doubts how well it will perform. Sandblasting the tips is a good idea for sure... I'm not going to throw them away as I want to try them! I was also thinking on putting them in a liquid to dissolve the paint of it as I don't have a sandblaster ;)
The only problem I see is the fact that smoke is hot and heat rises. If you can overcome that it should work great.
try a recirculating range hood. or similar design, for it is filtered before going through the fan.
Maybe, filtering is not the problem, although would definetly be a good thing if no options for exhausting to outside is possible.
Home gunner. I think the air exhaust should be a wide mouth to a much larger fan external to the laser cutter. Just my thoughts.
Hehe, hi Jeff, external fan check, only the mouth part and how is going to be the tricky one. a wide mouth is also what I think, and then to get the suction spread evenly across the bed area 🤔
InventorsFactory I could draw you something up. I’m in HVAC designer and I deal with airflow all day long. you’d want to have Louvers on the inlet. Airflow is definitely your friend in the auction side of exhaust fan.
I was thinking, (if it’s still relevant) why not put a slanted piece of plywood or some other material under the bed, so the scraps fall into a sort of collection bucket or trough on one side or underneath? That seems like it’d work. Maybe aluminum cause it’s generally more slippery?
Hi Skylatian, yes still very relevant ;) Good suggestion, suggestions on a funnel have been made but I haven't thought about slanted piece!
That would take less space, question is the angle it needs inorder to slide properly, cause the bottom space of the laser I want to use for the electronics, watercooling, air assist, pc etc etc... Depending on the angle needed I might actually do that, also depending on what material I use under the bed, "if ex. aluminium" it will reflect the laser beam at an angle instead of pointing it straight back up!
Thanks Skylatian, I'll consider it and do some slippery slope testing ;)
nice job, where does one buy the laser tubes like 100-1000 watt for cutting thin sheet metal? Better yet the laser system, all parts needed--- to plug and play
Thanks, well I honestly don't know really, never been looking for anything to cut metals. But can't be cheap. I bought my tubes at ebay but never seen further than 120w or so. And have not come across any website that is for laser and accessories yet. Sorry
But happy hunting petsatcom
Electronics:
1) Faraday cage (metal case) like mentioned from other users against high frequency spikes. But if you don't do it good it's useless
2) twisted (and better also shielded) wires for at least wires which are close to the laser. Connect shield to earth
3) power supply: use hf filters
Hi Stefan, yes Faraday cage is a must for sure... I am using Shielded wires for the Laser PSU, but as you say! if it isin't done correctly it's useless! I'm gonna look into the hf Filters! Thanks
If you are grounding the shield, ensure you ground only one end, otherwise you will end up with a ground loop and end up radiating more interference.
The cables going to the motors are also very susceptible to interference
+Mark Nichols Thanks, Ground loop you say! Hmmm I'll look into that. Cheers
There are certain Stepper drivers that notice it, when the motor stalls, you maybe wanna look into that :)
Mmmm interesting, I will Jonathan :)
for height, make some stairs auround,
for EMC you need shielding and for the lines you need ferrites to avoid EMI into the arduino. Only changing the electronics will not work certainly.
Stairs would work somewhat! Look stupid though! but would like a better bottomframe and don't need it that tall anyways! :)
as for the EMC and EMI! yes I definetly need to do that... just googled ferrites and am going to get some for testing ;)
Think about putting you lasertube on the x axis arm. I have a Weike LC 1612, that has a cutting area of 1600 x 1200mm, the alignment get tricky and there is a prower drop over the big distance.
I have a plan of rebuilding it in a few years and some of your ideas I will use. And the most importen thing is putting the lasertube on the x axis arm, so there is no alignment/power drop there and using a cover for all the mirrors where I will pump in air so the smoke/dust from the lasercutting is keept away from the mirrors.
Hi Dann, thanks a lot for the comment, power drop I did anticipate, but didn't think about the tricky alignment over the greater cutting area! Thanks for that... I am actully in the middle of trying to design something compact for the X-Axis Arm, so I'll try and see how I would do it with the Tube aswell, to try and visualize it! I'm not really fond of it as the X-Axis becomes quite big and for a diy build risky putting a 70 - 120 cm tube on it :)
Using air to keep a positive pressure for the mirrors and the tube casing is also big factor if mounting it on the x-axis gantry... I'll not be reaching your 1600 x 1200 more like 1300 x 900... but still!
Quite curious now :)
When you talk about power drop over the bigger distance, it is mostly an issue for vector/raster engravings right?
As for me personally, Cutting is the main priority, so if I adjust it to cut in the furtest distance, it "shouldn't" affect the cutting at the closest that much right?
Oh and that Weike LC 1612 looks pretty good! Love that it supports space for a dual tube installation, I'm thinking on supporting that aswell. And if you plan on rebuilding in a few years, I'll most definetly have done the upgrade by then and hopefully have some better answers/opinion at that time :)
Thanks again Dann
Hi Gunnar
The LC1612 I have only has one lasertube and cutter head, I need the bigger cutting area and It is a 100 watt laser.
I get that you think it is risky to på the tube on the x axis arm, but I have been thing a lot about it and personally I don't se that much risk, at it is the not that heavy and compared to the pressure and weight a CNC machine experience it is not near the same.
Just so you understand what I want to doe, it something like this ua-cam.com/video/136HqrXOMpw/v-deo.html but the power supply would still be mounted in the case of the lasercutter and still have the bed mounted horizontal.
The ability for engraving should not be hampered by the tube being mounted there.
My experience with smoke/dust is that the mirrors will take damage over time and if you cut something like mdf there will be more of it then with nylon or plywood.
The power drop can be seen when the laser is align, when the distance to the mirrors are shortes the masking tape nearly evaporates if the laser is shot for more then a "millisecond" and when it is the longest then it take more time to get the same effekt.
I compensate by using more power then needed when I cut, not much but enough to know that no matter where I am on the cutting surfe I will cut the way I want.
The reason I want to use lower power is that it makes the tube last longer and you can doe some finer cuts.
And some fanboy in Danish
Det ser mega godt ud, det i laver Gunner. Jeg håber i vil være mere aktiv her online, for dit engelsk er godt og det er faktisk utroligt informativt. Så lav nogle flere video, det ville være et hit er jeg sikker på.
Hi Dann, ok I totally got the picture from what you want to do now and the arguments why you want to add the laser tube on the X-Axis gantry! From Daniel Hood's video it seems like no problem with a decent speed running with the tube and PSU on there. so can't argue about that :D
I've gotta say for my machine that even though I clean them every 4~6 months (as a hobbyist with usage of 2~3days a week 4hours/session), there's hardly any dust on them, ever and I it's the same mirrors for 2½ years now... So I might actually have something positive going on even with the turbulencing flow of my smoke extraction problem I have ;) (Although, I can't really say if they have taken any damage, to the eye they look clean)
Hmmm the power drop however is a real bummer, you're correct on that, and you've got the experience so! I'm gonna try and see what I can design with the tube mounted on the X-Axis and so on... as the longer lasting tube is most definetly a very good argument ;) (And if I chose not to and end up regretting! You can tell me: "I Told you so!" :D )
Hehehe Danish Fanboy :D
Tusind Tak skal du have Dann, ville også gerne have der var mere aktivitet, men indtil videre er det kun mig der poster og laver videor ;) Men er lige så småt begyndt igen med video shooting ideer osv, da jeg også synes det er sjovt og spændende :D
Også lige et spørgsmål! Hvad bruger du så stor en laser til? eller hvad skal den endnu større laser bygges til? er det hobby eller arbejde? :D
Hi Gunnar
i think/know that my dust collection system is not the best. I need to doe some rebuilding of it and also need to enlarge the pipes. The blower motor is a impeller with a 250mm Ø port, but I am only running a 160mm Ø to it. So it is not enought and also the impeller pump is after the filter system, I think that it need to be before the filter system.
Also I have not been that kind to the laser as it has cut fabric with chlorine in it. Will get back to that.
I really need to get looking at aluminium profiles and rails for my project, because I don't think it is that expensive.
How much travel doe you have on the bed of the lasercutter?
Danish
Fedt at der kommer flere videoer. Jeg synes det er spændende. Måske jeg skulle komme forbi en dag og se jeres maker space, bor selv i nærheden af Karup.
Laseren blev oprindelig brugt til at skære stof med, mere præcist nylon stof og pvc lignende stof til et firma jeg havde sammen med en kamerat. Det er fedt at kunne skære sådan stoffer for du får et præcist produkt der ikke flosser fordi det er smeltet der hvor der er skåret og det gør syning så meget hurtigere.
Hi Dann,
Yeah, the blower before the filter sounds right to me aswell. Chlorine eyh, that must do some form of damage to the surroundings for sure!
Aluminium Profiles yes! they are cheap easy and really just make anything possible! :) I personally buy my profiles from Motedis germany they are also in UK and they have been my favourite. (And if you're looking for rails, check out cnc-discount.de ;) just saying)
Long time since I measured but I believe I have a total travel 750x750mm guaranteed, i little more in of the axis though, but can't remember...
Dann, ja helt sikkert, Karup er ikke så langt væk. Vi er der hver Torsdag fra kl 17, du finder os også under meetup, for adresse osv osv ;)
Stof! ok! det forklarer jo lidt størrelsen på maskinen! og hvorfor du skal have en større! :D og det med flossing tror jeg gerne er en god bivirkning at komme af med ;)
Ville også være meget intereseret i at se dit build når du går igang, bor selv i Ikast, så det er jo bare lige et hane-glop fra Karup
Machine Height: Can't you just add a little step/platform around the bottom of the laser cutter that you can step on to reach the stuff in the back of it? Great videos. Keep it up.
Thanks Joshua, Hehe yes, I could but won't :) All other lasers that I've seen you look down into, I want that as well :)
Why not encase the arduino with metal case and ground it, so that EM interference will be reduced
Yeah! That would actually be a great test, I believe I have a box for that available. Think I will test it out Tonight. Thanks and I'll report back ;)
good luck :)
That is how we normally do it onbthe EMC-lab :-)
@@InventorsFactory Probably long past, but if the frame of the laser is not grounded (the extrusions) then grounding that would have a huge impact on an that also and be safer in the event of a mains failure.
You will have to change to a laser diode for such big laser machine, or use a bigger Y axis stepper motor and place tube in X axis. Power supply of more amperage might stop laser failure. I am surprised your machine has not catched fire yet!
Hi Alex, aren't laser diode's at same wattage pretty expensive? and yes moving the tube on the X-Axis will improve! but as said I haven't had issues yet! but will build it, so I could do that if it occurs, better PSU will most definetly be a good thing and it almost did catch on fire once (explained in Part4) however I'm always in the same area as the machine when cutting and can pull the kill-switch + fire extinguisher if anything should occur!
Sorry if this has already been suggested but what about using shielded cables ferrite beads and steel case. Some stepper controllers have stall sensors that can be used as soft limit.
Hey Paul, no worries, well I've tried with ferrite beads, and have shielded all the laser psu wires, but sadly had no effect what so ever... so for now, I've resolved in some more manual controls in order to avoid stopping the laser while cutting... Sadly my drivers don't have that feature, but I do know some have that which would have been a perfect idea... :D
Are you running any opto isolation?
Well I'm controlling the laser safety via a relay board... which are not ssr's so there might be something there...
From what I could tell your relay board had optocouplers so don't think anything would be coming from there. I assume you are using a switch mode power supply to run your Arduino. If you get a SMPS from a phone console you will have a low noise supply as any noise in them can be heard on the phone. Ferrite bead the line and run through an appropriatly sized zener to cut any spikes. Try to protect any I/O pins with optocouplers and resistors as appropriate. Shield the controls in a metal case and tie to ground. Use flyback diode on any inductive devices connected to the Arduino. Run earth leads as appropriate to the rest of your system. All earth's should run by the shortest route to a earth bar. Maybe fold up some perforated sheet as a cover for the laser module. Is there any way to measure or detect EMI around your cutter to find any trouble spots. I have suggested all I can think of and please take it with a pinch of salt as electronics is only a hobby for me. I am however a boilermaker and a fitter Turner and generally reasonable at engineering in general so please share with us any problems you are having. Your channel is looking very promising best of luck with your future projects and I look forward to learning from you along the way. PS check out the trinamic TMC5160 yes I know it's a ramps board but has some cool features that might interest you.
Really nice build, congratulations guy !
Thanks Geekoid, it's nice! but should be nicer ;)
InventorsFactory Yes, the obsession of Makers, always better ! 😂
For exhaust, I would first off go with smaller diamterer fans. I would exhaust out the bottom, 4 holes, 90 degrees from each. That should give you an even vacuum? I will buy this machine as soon as you get done. :-)
Yeah! Gregory, the exhaust in the bottom is something I want to test at some scale to see if it performs! Honestly the normal front to back draft system is probably the best way, it's just mine at the moment isin't very good thats why it doesn't work so good! however the bottom extraction is something of interest! but lets see when the rough design is in place so I can do some tests!
If the machine ends up beeing good! My first thought will be to use it! :D don't think I'm gonna be selling it anytime soon ;) But design plan, and bom is definetly something I'm going to be making this time! if any would want to pursue my Build ;)
But may we use optical fiber instead of several mirrors to direct laser beam?
+Амир Долгатов Very good question... should definetly have less powerloss but honestly I have no idea if that works 😁 Could be cool if it does 😉
what about carrying the signals from the sensors to the controller board using fibre optic cable and should not conduct interference back to the controller but you now need some type of sender that can take information from the sensor and send it to the embedded micro controller as light which gets converted back into an electrical inside the controller unit, just an idea.
That is most definetly an Idea, a pretty advance one but would probably solve the solution for sure... I would rather want to eliminate the problem all together instead of working around it! But let's see ;)
I'm interested in this project. If you don't mind me asking, what is the cost in materials for your machine?
Hi Peter, well without really knowing the exact amount, I sure with what I've got right now is around 4k$, including the fails/mistakes/re'dos, probably more like 5k$ :)
I could make it somewhat cheaper now, with the experience gained, but didn't think to much about the cost when I started... ;)
You will have electrical diagrams of the electrical connections and connection of the laser part and design of the machine, good explanation greetings
Maybe if you insert the air suction hole in the center of the bottom-center of the platform and you drill a same size hole in the upper cover the air flow will go on the entire surface of the part in the upper and lower side carryng the smoke away fron the lans and carriage.... this works if you place the center of the part on the center of the machine, if this is not good for you maybe some smaller holes distribuited on the cover wilk also work...
For the electronics i think that just by screaning the HV wire of the laser in aluminium foil or in a pipe will solve the problem dumping thown the electric field created.
Apologyze my english i am italian:)
Hi manuel from Italy
Yes, air intake on the upper cover is also an option, that would definetly minimize smoke contamination to anything else! but would work best if the material was centered on the bed ;) I am very interested to know how the airflow would go if doing that! I might need to try a scaled down version of the machine from cardboard to see what works best for my needs!
And yes screaning the HV wire would be a very nice thing todo! I believe I have some shielded wire somewhere I could use to see ;)
Thanks for the suggestions and Greetings from Denmark
this is actually an interesting idea. Kind of like a "hold down" plate in woodwork, but for fume extraction.
Complete noob here, but is the k40 worth the money, or is diy the way to go?
Good question AngryWelshMan, I would say it depends on either how cheap you can get a k40 or how cheap you can get all the individual parts for a diy one.
For me it was not about price but that the k40 cutting area just wasn't enough...
buying the k40, will also get you cutting right away, where diy will take time. I am not sure I'm the rigbt guy to answer that but honestly I gotta say the k40 is so cheap that I should maybe have bought one and just stripped it for parts for the diy build if I could go back.
Also depends on skills and tools you got, to make a diy, as the tricky part is to align the laser beam across both axis for all its movement etc.
Also from all the k40 laser groups I'm in, a k40 pretty much needs some upgrades from the get go.
yeah, hope I had something of value here ;) Best of luck to you, Cheers.
For the fume removal why not attaching a vacuum hose near the nozzle as you would with a mill? Perhaps a 3D printed one that circum the nozzle.
P.s. love your videos :-)
Hmmm! Thats actually quite a good idea Lars, not needed when cutting as the smoke will be pushed to the underside of the material but certainly good when engraving, no matter what! I'm gonna test it, but if the smoke extraction turns out to be bad when engraving that is definetly a viable solution! Thanks for the suggestion Lars ;)
For the Electronics, perhaps consider just buying a Ruida laser controller instead? For me, the ease of using the RDWorks/LaserWorks software, and not having to deal with manual G-Code and the CAM software was a HUGE improvement in productivity.
For the exhaust port, BELOW the cutting area, if you can. For the inflow, you're almost always going to want to go from ABOVE the material to BELOW the area. I use simple, standard size filter in front of the exhaust port to catch heavier particles and dust.
Might as well set up Z access limiters in parallel (first one pressed stops the whole thing).
The under-drawers are an inspired idea, but why not just funnel everything that falls down into a 5 gallon bucket or two? If the material is slippery enough (use that neat new metal brake you bought to make a sheet metal funnel), it should be easy.
OOPH? A complete rebuild? Why not just build a new one and use it for BIG stuff? Then you can keep this one, as-is for the bulk of your work.
Hi Sean Harrington, wow a lot of good stuff
That Ruida is something I'm gonna have to look into, as the controller is a topic in the next one anyways ;)
The exhaust port below is definetly something I'm pretty keen on, I must say.
Putting the Z-Axis limiters in parallel wouldn't solve the leveling issue though! But actually brought me to another "Maybe" Solution I could look into.
The Idea with the Funnel is actually a great Idea, however it's going to be a very big funnel! :D But a lot easier than making drawers and the work of making them fit etc etc! Hmmm! I'm gonna think about that one...
The Last and best yet! Your on to something actually! Didn't cross my mind building a new one instead! I'm gonna let this one "boil in my brain" for a bit! As that could actually be a really good plan!
Really appreciate the time you took to watch/listen & Comment Sean, Thanks
If you are able to set laser power during work, you may add an equation adding x and y axis and the higher the value, the higher the energy on the laser?
(disclaimer: i dont know anything, just find it interesting.)
Yes indeed, that would actually be the thing todo for sure, but I don't control the power output from the software but manually... but but thats actually a very good idea, Mach3 is friendly what regards plugins and etc so making a small plugin to read out x and y and controlling the power through something would be feasible... 😉 thanks... I'll consider that when changes are to be made again...
My choice was to collect fumes at the source with a cyclonic smoke shoe : no smoke in front of the lens. This smoke collector needs hi psi so a small hacked vacuum cleaner do the job. A single 300mm long cylindrical fan from an old oven is enough to extract the remaining fumes. I wanted the fresh air to come from the front all along the bed surface and I drilled a série of 12mm holes in line. So there's a continuous air flow running above the bed in direction of the extractor at the back. But 90% of the fumes are collected near the beam.
Ok! Thanks Axel, that's also one way todo it for sure! I've never seen that solution before though :) you have any vids or posts on that! I'd love to see that ;)
Inventors factory : no video yet (I'm no UA-camr, just watcher) but it is inspired from the Cnc mill dust shoe. Nothing fancy. Here is my inspiration : m.ua-cam.com/users/ellogo6767search?query=Aspiration
Aah yes, see what you mean ;) It would work great if it was only for engraving, so it is not very suitable for the laser though! and is going to add a lot of weight to the nozzle on the X-Axis which I would prefer being as light-weight as possible. none the less an alternative I haven't thought of ;)
Well, your structure should be able to stand a moving fume collector. Mine is probably cheaper and I can run @22.000mm.mn with the collector on. I 3d printed my parts and the overall extra weight is
hi i wanna know if there's anny where we can find the plans for your cnc wood cutting machine ?
Hi Lud, yeah have no plans for the cnc machine I'm afraid, it was also a project which was made in progress without any real plans.
I am however upgrading the cnc with a new controller, so I might make a brief video telling how the cnc is made!
Why do you need complete air flow across the entire bed (on the vertical axis). why not put a removable wall on both ends so that air is push/pulled into the compartment where the laser cutting is taking place. I think you mentioned previously that engraving was to be done in the bottom area? So why not just move the wall and force all air down when you're doing those. Otherwise force all air up between the cutting spikes and the top cover.
Hi David, well I want the smoke to clear no matter where I'm cutting on the grid, thats why I want an even airflow, I engrave at the same height as when cutting, only difference is that when engraving the smoke stays ontop of the material, and when cutting (with air-assist) the smoke goes under the material/bed :) But no matter, I believe I can't get best of both, but would prefer it getting better than what I have now ;) but forcing the Air from top cover down is interesting, I'll look into that, and make some tests :) Thanks for the comment
Why not re-use the existing fan as "push" and mount it on the front, and use the suction from the roof as "pull" on the back? That would increase air flow. (Disclosure havent built a laser cutter)
Never crossed my mind! :D Thanks David Riley for the comment and great Idea! I'll think of it and report back in the conclusion video.
the photonsaw at OSAA extracts from the bottom, which allows for cutting very light materials like paper since they are lightly held in place by the lower pressure beneath the bed.
you can (sort of) see it here: ua-cam.com/video/y_PsjElpon8/v-deo.html
Actually pretty nice bonus feature for that type of extraction setup...
I gotta come out to you guys and see the machine! haven't seen any other laser cutter in real-life!
Might get some ideas flowing from that ;)
Thanks Mark
I need a cut ladder for metal
For the electronics - faraday cage
Yes. :) And thanks for the comments Jason Head
why do so many use that puzzle piece design to build acrylic boxes? There is a clear cement that can be used, like on an aquarium.
+That Dude There Good point 🤔 have tried doing that before the laser's time and never found a good one, Weld On 4 or similar should be the shizzle but I live in Denmark so there's none of that. Anyways I didn't need the box 😁 it was just a laser test too calibrate beam diameter and stuff like that 😉 And now that I have the laser! I am super lazy of any manual Labour 😁
Where is the next part? :p
:D Thanks for the interest Marcel, It's in the editing stages right now, so soon ;)
hi how tp repair a powersuply plise think you
Hi Marouane, I'm afraid I can't help you there, I simply don't know enough about electronics to help you on that.
get 2 lasers in the same machine:D
Hmmm :) Actually I have seen some do it! I could make the lasertube area big enough to house 2 lasers for the far future actually! ;)
how tall are you?
+Paulo Silva 169cm ;)
InventorsFactory you look shorter, btw your videos are ok, keep going...
Thx Paulo
Haha just use those extruded aluminum and build a stool
Gunnar?... hmm... scandinavian?
Yes, indeed 😏 Denmark