The Sorlock Cheese Grater - D&D: Optimized #47

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  • Опубліковано 3 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 909

  • @joshhobbs4862
    @joshhobbs4862 3 роки тому +519

    Anyone who says power gamers are toxic need to watch this guy. He's optimally wholesome

    • @Valandar2
      @Valandar2 3 роки тому +58

      Power gamers aren't toxic. Power gamers who insist that anybody NOT a power gamer isn't playing the game right and should quit are toxic.

    • @bluebird3281
      @bluebird3281 2 роки тому +7

      @@Valandar2 Hear, Hear!

    • @tarlison2k1
      @tarlison2k1 2 роки тому +14

      toxic players are just toxic doesn't mean they are power gamer

    • @Valandar2
      @Valandar2 2 роки тому +2

      @@tarlison2k1 Nobody said otherwise.

    • @mocockah
      @mocockah 2 роки тому +12

      One could argue that: He's intoxicatingly wholesome ...

  • @beckerscantbechoosers6768
    @beckerscantbechoosers6768 3 роки тому +527

    "So we're a Warlock 4."
    And then my mind went:
    "A Fourlock"

  • @yodaleiaheehoo9960
    @yodaleiaheehoo9960 3 роки тому +142

    I was in a campaign playing a blue aasimar Paladin and my buddy was playing a elven wild magic sorcerer. In the first session one of his rolls on the table turned his skin blue, the DM flavored it to be the same as my own. We couldn't remove it as lvl 2 characters and no outside help to remove it either. So he rolled with it. He ended multiclassing into Paladin and we would charge into battle together coming to be known by our party & the local as the blue man group 😁

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 роки тому +6

      ha!

    • @ctp3737
      @ctp3737 2 роки тому +7

      His battle cry needs to be SPOOOONNNN!!!!

  • @bluesman2050
    @bluesman2050 3 роки тому +101

    Absolutely love this build. The biggest thing that excites me is the stuff you didn't talk about - the number of cantrips you get, the space to take and use all kinds of cool but super situational spells. Even the flexibility of the sorcerer class choice is great. My taste would be Aberrant Mind, but being Divine Soul and also doubling up as a party healer would totally be possible and a little ridiculous. Just lots of space to personalize and make this your own.

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 роки тому +9

      Glad you enjoyed! And yes, plenty of versatility that I didn't have time to explore :)

    • @johnpaullogan1365
      @johnpaullogan1365 3 роки тому +2

      i have a dm that lets every class but wizard know and prepare their entire list. i'm going divine soul as he confirmed that would let me have both the sorc and cleric list.

    • @bluesman2050
      @bluesman2050 3 роки тому +6

      @@johnpaullogan1365 I would actually hate that as a player. Agonizing over the decision over what to learn and prepare is half the fun.

    • @sha2143
      @sha2143 3 роки тому +8

      @@johnpaullogan1365 I could understand knowing the spells, but preparing them seems stupidly powerful given that most casters are already significantly more powerful then noncasters. It's taking a way one of only 2 limiting factors for a casters being able to just pick a spell and throw it at a problem. All this does is make noncasters a lot worse. No point in having skills for noncasters, the casters will just ALWAYS have a spell to fix whatever problem shows up whenever it shows up.

    • @jiminkpen9750
      @jiminkpen9750 3 роки тому +4

      @@sha2143 I think it's OK *if the entire party are spellcasters and you want to run that sort of game. Otherwise you are just making non casters even worse comparatively and taking away their chance to shine.

  • @BLynn
    @BLynn 3 роки тому +95

    Level 1:(see above) [sorcerer 1, sub-class & race]
    Level 2:(see above) [warlock 1 & patron]
    Level 3:(@22:04) [warlock 2 & eldritch invocations]
    Level 4:(@23:29) [warlock 3 & boon]
    Level 5:(@28:43) [sorcerer 2]
    Level 6:(@29:53) [sorcerer 3 & metamagic]
    Level 7:(see above) [sorcerer 4 & ASI]
    Level 8:(@37:48) [warlock 4 & ASI]
    Level 9:(@38:32) [warlock 5 & eldritch invocation]
    Level 10:(see above) [warlock 6]
    Level 11:(@47:19) [warlock 7 & eldritch invocation]
    Level 12:(@51:24) [sorcerer 5]
    Level 13:(@51:58) [sorcerer 6]
    Level 14:(see above) [warlock 8 & ASI]
    Level 15:(@53:54) [warlock 9 & eldritch invocation]
    Level 16:(@1:02:43) [warlock 10]
    Level 17:(@1:03:40) [warlock 11 & mystic arcanum]
    Level 20:(@1:05:42) comment [warlock 14]

    • @nolongerdude
      @nolongerdude 2 роки тому

      you got some of the time wrong

    • @BLynn
      @BLynn 2 роки тому

      @@nolongerdude I don't think Colby can pin two comments so his should be at the top. You can ask him about it on Twitter if you have that much motivation.

  • @cilcen
    @cilcen 3 роки тому +66

    It might be worth noting that the 'Gunner' feat from Tasha's also gets rid of disadvantage on attack rolls while within 5 ft of an enemy, like Crossbow Expert, with the added bonus of also giving +1 Dex to builds that may need a bump to dex for AC/initiative.

    • @rehecke7124
      @rehecke7124 3 роки тому +5

      A great point, though Crossbow Expert is more "setting agnostic" since so many DMs seem opposed to introducing firearms, even in settings that already have them in established canon.

    • @Casino220
      @Casino220 3 роки тому +6

      @@rehecke7124 Yeah, but we're talking about using either for cantrip close range purposes. In that case, gunner is the same but gives +1 dex. Strictly stronger if you aren't actually using weapons.

    • @aqueousconch1103
      @aqueousconch1103 3 роки тому +1

      @@Casino220 Thanks for this!

    • @varasatoshi3961
      @varasatoshi3961 3 роки тому +3

      DM 1: “there’s no guns in forgotten realms!”
      Me: “bro my party’s monk got a gun on session 2 of waterdeep dragon heist.”

  • @bnichols4
    @bnichols4 2 роки тому +29

    Wild magic surge killed a young child staying in the next room of the inn. I didn't let my party live it down especially when the boys father sold his soul to a devil to bring his son back... As a demon who relentlessly pursued the party. After killing the "demon" and the cloaked man with it the found on the body the journal of the father about his loss, bargain, and journey for revenge/redemption... They still have trauma and act differently in game in a new setting 3 years later.

  • @jheckie14
    @jheckie14 3 роки тому +167

    I can't believe Cheese Grater actually won ahah

    • @lifeofdalen
      @lifeofdalen 3 роки тому +7

      LETS GOOOOO

    • @codean909
      @codean909 3 роки тому +6

      Yeah…
      it didn’t win the pole

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 роки тому +62

      @@codean909 But it won my heart.

    • @codean909
      @codean909 3 роки тому +9

      @@DnDDeepDive this answer is acceptable ;)

    • @abydosianchulac2
      @abydosianchulac2 3 роки тому +3

      For anyone familiar with the Oxventure Guild streamers, they'll recognize this as a cousin to the accidentally-discovered Merilwen's Meat Grinder, so Cheese Grater just seemed a natural progression. (In that case, they set up a Spike Growth behind a patch of Grease just inside a door and watched as the low-level paladins chasing them slipped, slid, and ground themselves into paste just by entering the room.)

  • @StoneSouldier
    @StoneSouldier 3 роки тому +26

    Also, give your rogue/fighter some caltrops to toss out for when they don't want to walk into the thorny area to reduce the enemy's movement by another 10ft.

  • @jodylester9118
    @jodylester9118 3 роки тому +13

    Proud member of Team Cheese Grater. We stand victorious.

  • @GryphonDes
    @GryphonDes 3 роки тому +4

    All of these deep dives are just utterly enthralling and fun! You and your half stifled enthusiasm is the frosting on top. Subbed and binging these all :p

  • @Nagmos
    @Nagmos 2 роки тому +16

    This build opens up an interesting team up that you didn't mention; Grapplers. If you have a goliath grappling friend (elk barbarian) they can drag a couple baddies around the outside edge for even more cheese grating!

    •  10 місяців тому

      not to mention open hand monks, shove, thunderwave...

  • @commodoreblood
    @commodoreblood 3 роки тому +21

    The Roll20 inclusion really helps visualize everything this build can do. I love it. You are but a dndbeyond character sheet away from being Treantmonk levels of sensei, and I mean that in the nicest way possible. Love your work.

    • @TheRobversion1
      @TheRobversion1 3 роки тому +5

      he has a "cheat sheet" in the joiner option. and imo Colby is already better than Chris. i'm subscribed to Chris too but he has a very heavy bias towards control, wizards and casting. Colby imo has a more holistic view as a "sensei." he looks to optimize support, tanking, dmg and even includes story/RP bits. treantmonk doesn't do those. Moreover, Colby's bias (monks/bladesingers) isn't as painfully obvious as treantmonk or at least has more general application (sustained). overall, he's already a better sensei than treantmonk if what you're concerned about is simply character building. I would even posit that other smaller channels have surpassed Chris in character build optimization with being more creative: min/max munchkin, bilbron's and dragons, etc. of course, if as a player all you want to do is control, cast spells and play wizards then treantmonk is perfect.

  • @nicoruppert4207
    @nicoruppert4207 3 роки тому +4

    Absolutely amazing, breathtakingly beautiful.
    Cheesy in ALL the right places.

  • @ryadinstormblessed8308
    @ryadinstormblessed8308 3 роки тому +8

    Now that Strixhaven exists, I'd say that it gives the perfect simple justification for optimized multi-class builds. It's definitely the type of thing that dueling groups in a magic university would discuss, debate and theorize about.

  • @Zr0din
    @Zr0din 3 роки тому +2

    Thanks for the Map stuff. That really helps my understanding and visualization.

  • @kraken9773
    @kraken9773 3 роки тому +10

    I made almost the exact same build the other day, but instead of wild magic I went shadow sorcerer. Currently, they're set to lvl 10 as a backup character Sorcerer 3 Warlock 7. If I was playing a game at lvl 15 i'd start 1 sorcerer 14 warlock to have the limited wish since it is my favorite 14th level ability in the game. For that reason I would never go more than 6 levels in another class when playing a genie warlock.

  • @LanceLaytner
    @LanceLaytner 8 місяців тому

    Perfect with Thorn Whip cantrip! As Dao Genie Warlock with Pact of the Tome, take Thorn Whip as one of the three Tome cantrips. You can then pull the target 10 feet towards you. So with unlimited cantrips you can push back and forth. Eldritch Blast (with Repelling Blast invocation) and Thorn Whip cantrips you can pull the target back and forth as much as you want. If you multi class Sorcerer and use sorcery points for Quicken Spell you can do both actions at once on one target.

  • @hella_lugosi
    @hella_lugosi 3 роки тому +7

    You could pair this with a Battle Master Bow Fighter who could push enemies around even more, or even knock them prone so they have a much harder time getting out.

  • @ChildrenCube0213
    @ChildrenCube0213 3 роки тому +4

    This is my new favourite D&D series :)

  • @dienezdarcprowlyr9406
    @dienezdarcprowlyr9406 3 роки тому +4

    Just want to tell you Colby that I made a cheese grateful character for my wife, who is very new to dnd - she has played 6 session, 4 with and wizard tank and 2 with cheese grater, and she absoltly loves it. She has so much fun and feels so cool blasting creature and pushing them around and doing 2 d10 + 10d4 damage. After 20 years of trying to interest her in dnd now she is asking if we are playing this week and is trying to make adding sessions. So thanks it make a great date night.

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 роки тому +1

      This makes my heart happy :)

    • @dienezdarcprowlyr9406
      @dienezdarcprowlyr9406 3 роки тому +2

      To update with how great this is. The session this weekend the party stumbled on a nasty combination. 7th level chars. A cheese grater, a thornlock and a flame sorceror. The thornlock cast hunger of hadar to stop a cleric in the midst of a summoning and 5 of her 6 beserker worshipers. The CG cast spike growth in the same 20ft area. The FS cast wall of fire in a 20ft ring around the other areas and made the outside face the flame damaging.
      The enemy wanders blindingly, wis save to go in direction of party, taking 2d6 cold, fail dex for 2d6 acid; 2d4 spikes(averaging 6d4 per round) to get out of black slurping void of spikes, and then run into 5d8 fire damage. They are then either grabbed and held in the flame taking more damage or hit with eldrich blast back through the fire and i to the black void of spiky death.
      This was to be a nice hard encounter, instead the party spent 4 rounds watching the barbarians slowly kill them selves, usually by leaving the void and being burned to death. The party has never laughed so hard and Can't stop talking about it and now i have to figure out a way to not let it work with every encounter or they are just going to waltz through everything. The player in me loves how great these builds work, the Dm is just going WTH do i do now.

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 роки тому +1

      @@dienezdarcprowlyr9406 Ha ha! Awesome!

  • @nessesaryschoolthing
    @nessesaryschoolthing 3 роки тому +1

    I like when the DM throws a curveball. I like the puzzle aspect of RPG encounters, where you have to see what weakness you can exploit and change tactics. It's fun to imagine challenging scenarios and plan for them, and rewarding when they actually play out in-game.

  • @olivermaddox555
    @olivermaddox555 3 роки тому +5

    Definitely get where you're coming from reliability over burst damage, or potentially bad effects. I've been known not to draw from the Deck of Many Things too when it turns up! Really enjoying your content, and looking forward to more.

  • @kodiakjak1
    @kodiakjak1 Рік тому +1

    You can also combo with an ally casting bigby's hand to grasp and grapple another enemy. Literally grating them across the spiked growth with thier bonus action to move the hand after it grappled someone. Or use the hand's push if the dm rules you can't move the hand after it grappled.

  • @gabrielseller6434
    @gabrielseller6434 3 роки тому +80

    Such a shame that Magic Stone doesn’t scale, would have been really cool for this build

    • @dracoargentum9783
      @dracoargentum9783 3 роки тому +13

      magic stone should "scale" as Eldrich Blast does, not only would it make sense, but I have always felt there should be other cantrips with this "scaling" option. [and on a cantrip that is not class specific]

    • @BelfastBiker
      @BelfastBiker Рік тому

      Our table treats magic stone is if you get to use all three pebbles in your action, so effectively 3d6+12. At level ONE. We are starting at level 3, and we have a week to rejig our characters. I’ve basically changed everything to make sure I got that spell… madness.

    • @DaCrump
      @DaCrump Рік тому

      ​@@BelfastBiker Magic Stone does scale, just with number of attacks, not all in the one attack like normal cantrips. So at level 5 make them and give 2 to the paladin to give him a good range option of 1d6 + casting mod per attack which he gets 2 of now. Making it game breakingly powerful like that is unnecessary. You can also use it levels 1-3 where it's already the best damaging cantrip, besides EB with Agonizing Blast, then swap it at 4 with the feature from Tasha's.

    • @BelfastBiker
      @BelfastBiker Рік тому

      @@DaCrump I dealt with it by changing My entire character to get magic stone. I love min-max shenanigans! So that will be my main offensive to go alongside my concentration spell, until EB + AB + GH comes online for a couple of attacks with Spike Growth.

  • @nathanaelpoole1369
    @nathanaelpoole1369 3 роки тому +8

    An echo knight would work great as an ally for this build, the echo is not a creature and so is unaffected by spike growth.

  • @madwithjacob
    @madwithjacob 3 роки тому +4

    For thumbnails I like the grey background but the homey vibe in your recording room is awesome.

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 роки тому

      Thanks for the feedback! I might be doing some back and forth during the Summer while school is out...

  • @justinsellers9402
    @justinsellers9402 3 роки тому

    I really like this build. Usually, your builds don't fit the game I play in because we go weeks without a long rest, but can get short rests around once a night. This makes any mechanic that relies on long rest or heavy use of spells near worthless. Good job!

    • @TheRobversion1
      @TheRobversion1 3 роки тому

      wow. isn't sleeping considered a long rest in your game? how aren't your heroes not dead from no sleep? or are you all playing coffeelocks that remove exhaustion?

    • @justinsellers9402
      @justinsellers9402 3 роки тому

      @@TheRobversion1 By night, I mean real life night. We go through a dungeon taking weeks of real life time, playing once a week.

    • @TheRobversion1
      @TheRobversion1 3 роки тому

      @@justinsellers9402 thats understandable. we sometimes have 1 adventuring day divided into 3-4 2 hr sessions (which means 3-4 combats before a long rest). we get at least 1 short rest per 2 combats. more if someone packs catnap, the story allows for it or someone is a genielock. my question though is if that's the case, how many combats do you get before a long rest?

  • @twotoetimby7078
    @twotoetimby7078 3 роки тому +19

    Hmmm now we need a “Nacho Libre,” styled bard.

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 роки тому +9

      Gonna need to find some Eagle Powers... I'm thinking Aarakocra.

    • @nessesaryschoolthing
      @nessesaryschoolthing 3 роки тому +2

      I had someone play a homebrew Luchador class that we kept making Nacho Libre jokes about. He was so overpowered the rest of us basically just watched and cheered him on as he took on giants and monsters in the ring. You'd think it would be boring, but he could really put on a show. Anyways, never use homebrew, kids.

    • @fuzzysquirrel
      @fuzzysquirrel 3 роки тому

      Only if he can have stretchy pants

  • @michaelfrey3619
    @michaelfrey3619 2 роки тому

    I once had a TPK because our Wild Magic Sorc decided to do a Bit before we started the boss encounter on the off chance it'd help us out. While the house rule for wild magic surge we used increased the chance of it going off every time it didn't. So if he didn't roll the 1 on the next check it would activate on a 1-2 and so on. Anyway I digress. He cast a quickened spell as a bit and a fireball dropped at his feet wiping 2 of our party outright. And injuring us all enough while alerting the boss so that he dispatched us in 2 rounds.

  • @jameswhisnant1555
    @jameswhisnant1555 3 роки тому +6

    Was really hoping for "the shredder" with this charisma build, thought we could potentially dip bard for the performance rolls.

  • @cameronpowell1864
    @cameronpowell1864 3 роки тому +1

    I built one pretty similar a few months ago, but it was 6 Genie Warlock, and the rest Graviturgist, so you could get the extra push from each attack. I literally called it the cheese grater (carpet burn also works).

  • @tuaa33
    @tuaa33 3 роки тому +3

    Very nice art example. Grats for the artist! And by the way Crusher feat criticals are awesome too.

  • @jimmyreinstein9993
    @jimmyreinstein9993 3 роки тому +2

    Love this build! Great job as always

  • @robmongar7933
    @robmongar7933 3 роки тому +3

    Interesting your comments on bouncing around to take levels in different classes. I always consider that once the character has the new class, they are free to take levels as and when they choose.

  • @Name_InProgress
    @Name_InProgress Рік тому +2

    He said ‘I try to make characters that put out consistent damage’ and then and there , I knew , I was gonna love this guy

    • @Name_InProgress
      @Name_InProgress Рік тому

      We plan on starting our campaign in like… a month , This has been going on for almost 3 months now. And My DM is so angry at me since I keep making new characters and ask him if I can play them , And he always says ‘Be consistent and Pick Wisely’. Maybe he will help me decide

  • @Empire84NY
    @Empire84NY 3 роки тому +9

    Want to make this crazy, add a pair of illusionist's bracers

  • @pericoel21
    @pericoel21 3 роки тому

    You got me at "¿Cómo estamos?" I come here straight from another of you videos, enjoying it so far!

  • @thesuitablecommand
    @thesuitablecommand 3 роки тому +9

    You should do an episode on a Duergar Rune Knight focusing on grappling! You can grapple literally anything by level 3, if I understand correctly, since you can grow to Huge size (in 1 turn, nonetheless!!!) 🤩

  • @endreverland811
    @endreverland811 3 роки тому

    If you have the luxury of choosing or planning the area of an area, I've got an idea.
    Using the mold earth cantrip, you can excavate a small to large area.
    Make the hole anywhere from 5 and below feet deep.
    Put it so that the enemy must go through it to reach the party.
    Then cast spike growth and all the other neat tricks you've mentioned.
    Since they have to use double their movement to climb up, you could have them in the thicket that much longer.
    It would become a boxed cheese grater :)
    Thank you for an awesome video as always :)

    • @TheRobversion1
      @TheRobversion1 3 роки тому

      imo that's more trouble for minimal performance improvement. using mold earth would be a total different tactic. better to just get them prone and to fall into your pit and then mold earth again to bury them alive. no need for spike growth dmg when the enemy is removed from combat (and slowly dying).

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 роки тому

      Thanks!

  • @karlbannsonr
    @karlbannsonr 3 роки тому +9

    I love this build, but don’t forget that enemies can jump as part of their movement. High strength scores are common. Jumping negates the difficult terrain (for the amount jumped). Enemies with the jump spell would be able to clear the area. Granted, most enemies would still take a good deal of damage from this build.

    • @PrometheanConsulting
      @PrometheanConsulting 2 роки тому +1

      I would answer this by overlapping Solid Fog. Jumping becomes just another form of 5' movement.

    • @karlbannsonr
      @karlbannsonr 2 роки тому

      @@PrometheanConsulting what do you mean by “solid fog”? Are you saying to use fog cloud?

  • @horbi3683
    @horbi3683 3 роки тому +2

    Great Build, thank you! This push and pull theme reminds me much of Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn series ☺️

  • @dienezdarcprowlyr9406
    @dienezdarcprowlyr9406 3 роки тому +5

    Can't wait for the illustration collob, sounds fun. Try to let us have a view of him actually drawing.

  • @thundyrcat
    @thundyrcat 10 місяців тому

    Lol…all my friends at Super Bowl parties. My wife asked me if I wanted to go to one, I said, no… I’ve got some deep dive to catch up on. Awesome concept here. My son will love this one!

  • @luizkormann314
    @luizkormann314 3 роки тому +8

    After treantmonk and bilbrons I was expecting another psi blade rogue this week

  • @Quintal100kg
    @Quintal100kg 3 роки тому +1

    I like this build because you could actually vuild the whole party around it. Graviturgist wizard, Tempest cleric, Swarmkeeper ranger, some kind of grappler, there are a lot of interesting ways to move enemies around and you just made all of them much stronger.

  • @kbeazy_3050
    @kbeazy_3050 3 роки тому +32

    Subtle spike growth actually is a good combo because spike growth states:
    "The transformation of the ground is camouflaged to look natural. Any creature that can’t see the area at the time the spell is cast must make a Wisdom (Perception) check against your spell save DC to recognize the terrain as hazardous before entering it."
    This means enemies shouldnt know where the spell was cast without wasting an action. Meaning they don't know how to leave it.

    • @bouboulroz
      @bouboulroz 3 роки тому

      Unfortunately, RAW the enemy still knows if you cast a Spike Growth with Subtle Spell. Spike Growth has a material component, which aren't covered by the metamagic. This means that you have to interact with your component pouch/arcane focus in order to cast, which makes the casting obvious according to the rules.

    • @sha2143
      @sha2143 3 роки тому

      @@bouboulroz Or you could idk, roll sleight of hand to make the gesture go unnoticed. Or just not nerf the metamagic because of poor wording.

    • @bouboulroz
      @bouboulroz 3 роки тому

      @@sha2143 It's not a "nerf", it's how it was intended to work. There is a reason Subtle spell doesn't cover material components, and that is to interact differently with spells that have one.
      And yes, you could definitely roll a sleight of hand to be stealthy about it. But the point is that it's an automatic success, and people can notice.
      But it's not even necessary. Whether or not you subtle spell Spike Growth, the enemy have to make the perception check (which requires no action by the way) in order to see the area you have affected, otherwise they just see that you cast a spell.

    • @jiminkpen9750
      @jiminkpen9750 3 роки тому +1

      Surely if they see you casting they can see the area of the spell, and therefore see it become hazardous?

    • @JayskaTeag
      @JayskaTeag 3 роки тому +2

      Sadly the Subtle Spell part is moot, as it states if they can't see the area, nothing about casting the spell. The enemy can see the area you casted it in and thus sees the spikes form. Now, if you casted it on your side of a door, while said door is closed, even if they heard you casting a spell, they would need to make a check to notice

  • @peterlochmaier5887
    @peterlochmaier5887 3 роки тому +1

    The art is absolutely awesome!

  • @derentius
    @derentius 2 роки тому +3

    I love how versatile Sorlocks are....

  • @TheCWasson12
    @TheCWasson12 3 роки тому +1

    I love that collab idea. Excited to see it!

  • @TheTeamDarkforce
    @TheTeamDarkforce 3 роки тому +6

    Sorcerer tryed to cast detect magic and well... he detected a fireball centered on us :D we got tpk'ed because the healthier(?) of us had like 13 hp in that moment

  • @patrickhuhn298
    @patrickhuhn298 3 роки тому +2

    Love your channel! Thank you for your great passion and dedication :)

  • @josh-mf7lt
    @josh-mf7lt 3 роки тому +38

    Wait cheese grater won, when I voted briarlock had it on lock, lol.

    • @nicoruppert4207
      @nicoruppert4207 3 роки тому +5

      It didn't win, he chose the right thing.

    • @michaelbeal1400
      @michaelbeal1400 3 роки тому +1

      @@nicoruppert4207 hahaha got the win by 2%

    • @andrewspringer5219
      @andrewspringer5219 3 роки тому +4

      One thing I thought Cory would talk about: with easy short rests as a genie are you able to convert any leftover pact magic into sorcery points before a SR? If so that’d make it real easy to refresh your SP. Just a big plus I didn’t see him talk about.

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 роки тому +5

      @@andrewspringer5219 This is a good point: Jeremy Crawford says yes, though of course your DM may rule otherwise. It definitely helps the build be more even more sustainable if your DM allows it! twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/596193607595401216

    • @adamkaris
      @adamkaris 3 роки тому +3

      @@andrewspringer5219 Yes, just make sure you then convert those points into spell slots, since you can never have more sorcerery points than your max. But there's no such limit on your spell slots.

  • @TheRobversion1
    @TheRobversion1 3 роки тому

    agreed. i go custom class. solves so many issue. liked the wild magic start. i think i'd take that as an alternative to the divine soul. i went divine soul primarily for cleric spell access, guidance and favored of the gods for misses.
    as you know, i always go burst so re-sharing my build here too.
    2 fighter, 4 dao, 4 divine soul
    fighting style: superior technique-ambush
    custom lineage: telekinetic (wanted a way to still grate a prone enemy)
    asi: crusher, eldritch adept: grasp of hadar
    invocations: agonizing blast, repelling blast
    metamagic: seeking spell for misses, quickened spell
    pact of the chain: quasit
    tactics:
    round 1
    familiar: help
    bonus action: quickened spike growth behind bbeg
    action: eldritch blast push 20 ft, grasp of hadar pull 10 ft
    action surge: eldritch blast push 10 ft, eldritch blast crusher 5 ft into the air + 10 ft then enemy falls prone or simply crushing eldritch blast 25 ft if you don't want to knock them prone
    that's 55 ft of cheese grating goodness on round 1. that's 55 dmg without putting in eldritch blast and genie's wrath dmg.
    glad to see our builds work similarly and have alot of similar choices early on. agreed on swarmkeeper. imo its a different build altogether. love the roll 20 presentation. personally, when i continued the build, i kind of went the same way you did (except for the 2 levels of fighter). i made sure to get sorc 8 for catnap (works awesome with pact magic slots) then we ended at level 15 so i got to 5 daolock for lance of lethargy.

  • @tylersatchwell6059
    @tylersatchwell6059 3 роки тому +5

    I'm currently playing a Quandrix Sorlock, and I'm sort of wondering how that would fit into this build with the UA release. As it gets a reaction 30 ft teleport for more movement against enemies and allies, buffs/debuffs like a bard and a pretty insane capstone ability, seems like it would fit in very well with this build. Oh and it gets spike growth in it's bonus spell list.

  • @jonathanmorphew6786
    @jonathanmorphew6786 3 роки тому +1

    My build finally. Can't wait to see how you build it :)

  • @CardboardLord
    @CardboardLord 3 роки тому +18

    Damn I was hoping for briarlock, but I would still watch if you called it "Shooty Spikey Boi"

  • @avic4724
    @avic4724 Рік тому

    With the addition of dragonlance backgrounds and feats a really powerful new version of the cheesegrater is now viable. If you take the mage of high sorcery background, and then the adept of the red robes feat when you get your first ASI, you can get spike growth on any class. Thus becomes possible: The Hexblade Cheesegrater. Because of the way hexblades curse is worded, you can now add your proficiency bonus to the damage of every single spike growth damage roll. First go a level in sorcerer for constitution saving throw proficiency, then two levels in hexblade, take agonizing blast and repelling blast, then hard focus sorcerer the rest of the way. At later levels pick up grasp of hadar with eldritch adept feat for greater control, and you will be throwing out over 200 DPR at lower enemy AC's by level 13 and by level 17, you will be dishing out close to 300 DPR. Obvious weaknesses are that the build is severely limited by hexblades curse dependency and sorcery points for quickened spell, but even with those limitations, its pretty damn powerful even without going full cheese mode. Enjoy and have fun *only use at approval of DM

  • @jamesmullen3068
    @jamesmullen3068 3 роки тому +5

    When you asked for votes I voted to call this the briarlock, but once I understood what you were doing, cheese grater is the best name

  • @mikegullikson3429
    @mikegullikson3429 3 роки тому +2

    Can you get more movement in the spike growth by standing at the corner of the spike growth and move them north with 1 blast and east with the next. Then pull them back diagonally southwest. 3 blasts and they are back in the same spot.

  • @AuthoritativeNewsNetwork
    @AuthoritativeNewsNetwork 3 роки тому +4

    DM: "oh, you cast spike growth again. We'll these kobold are masters of the ancient combat sport known as The Floor is made of Lava."
    You get plane shifted into a world where Grung rule. 😉😉

  • @rodneyrossow
    @rodneyrossow Рік тому +1

    Just now checking this one out. I think I'd stay with warlock until you get your next invocation at level 5 warlock to get Grasp of Hadar. Push 10, pull 10 for that real cheese grater effect. I really enjoy your builds!

  • @minaly22
    @minaly22 3 роки тому +3

    Yeah the cheese grater genie warlock! Yeah!!!

  • @Drawoon
    @Drawoon 2 роки тому +2

    today I learned: tickling someone's bum doesn't break your concentration

  • @evansmith2832
    @evansmith2832 3 роки тому +61

    I'd rather take telekinetic as the level 1 feat. Even though you're giving the enemy a save, it's overall more versatile and useful than crusher and having +1 in charisma is huge.

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 роки тому +29

      I waffled between them. Starting with 18 in Cha would be awesome. Having an automatic +5 movement on a hit rather than having to use my BA for a *chance* at it ultimately convinced me otherwise (based purely on numbers), but I think it's a close call either way.

    • @ajmacewan7285
      @ajmacewan7285 3 роки тому +15

      You could also do Aberrant Mind to start for a slightly different, but still unified, character concept.
      I'm personally with you Evan, as the 18 CHA would hit like a truck levels 1-5 n you could bum-rush Warlock 4 at lvl 5 for the crusher feat and round-up on Con. Also gives your DM a chance to warm up to the strategy lmao

    • @studynot757
      @studynot757 3 роки тому +2

      I mean bonus feat and level 4 ASI feat for these two for sure IMO, personal choice/concept/game might determine which comes first.

    • @killcat1971
      @killcat1971 3 роки тому +2

      @@ajmacewan7285 Yeah I was thinking Aberrant Mind as well, but I also thought Fathomless Warlock.

    • @Ahglock
      @Ahglock 3 роки тому +2

      @@DnDDeepDive I like crusher also for its ability to push in any direction instead of just to and away. With the cheese grater it probably isn't huge but the ability to knock them up or left etc will be awesome a few times a campaign.

  • @joe_krogan
    @joe_krogan 3 роки тому +2

    I played with a wild magic sorcerer once in a 1st level party and the first leveled spell he was trying to cast was burning hands... which turned into a 3rd level fireball centered on himself. We had a TPK within roughly 30 min of the first session cuz our sorcerer wanted to attack 2 kobolds at once. I swore I'd never play a wild magic sorcerer after that day.

  • @grendl74
    @grendl74 3 роки тому +3

    *chuckles* "stupid Wild Magic"
    Made me giggle.

  • @risperdude
    @risperdude 3 роки тому +2

    If you have a Druid in the party that can then cast Plant growth on your spikes... have to spend 4 feet of movement to move one. No one would be able to get out of the patch... they do less damage to themselves but you can move them around like pawns on a chess board.

  • @Reoh0z
    @Reoh0z 3 роки тому +3

    Really enjoy your show mate, but I have a small request. When you use the maps the white screen can be very bright. When setting up maps on roll 20 (or editing their setup later) you can change it to say a medium gray or whatever colour you like really. That way it won't be as glaring to the viewer. Once again, thanks for the great content!

  • @CyclopsWasRight
    @CyclopsWasRight 2 роки тому

    I like the thought of a trinket that houses a small study, worn by your car familiar. 😂

  • @kbeazy_3050
    @kbeazy_3050 3 роки тому +28

    Crossbow expert isnt the best way to remove disadvantage at close range anymore for non crossbow users.
    The gunner feat gives the same bonus and +1 dex.
    If you don't use a hand crossbow, then +1 dex is usually better. Especially if you happen to be odd already

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 роки тому +16

      Good call - I so rarely think about gunpowder in any capacity in D&D, which shows my own personal bias. Time to do a gunner build :)

    • @zerix8073
      @zerix8073 3 роки тому +4

      @@DnDDeepDive Man I'd love to see a gunner build, but I'd want to be an Artificer and none of them actually get bonuses to muskets.

  • @CitanulsPumpkin
    @CitanulsPumpkin 3 роки тому

    The character I've been brainstorming for an upcoming nautical campaign actually fits into this concept while taking different classes.
    He's basically a sailor whose warlock patron turned him into a giant shark man. Think King Shark from DC. Either Lizardfolk, Goliath, or Simic Hybrid. All three races actually work pretty well for the concept.
    He's a blend of fathomless warlock and swarmkeeper ranger. The swim speed from fathomless coupled with longstrider, jump, and expertise in athletics from canny ranger will let him swim alongside enemy ships, get a running start by swimming straight up, breaching/jumping over the deck of the ship, and dropping his tentacle on the deck of the ship.
    Taking swarmkeeper to level 3 so the fathomless tentacle could fling targets 15 feet overboard was a given, but taking ranger to 5 for spiked growth to drop both that and the tentacle on the deck in the opening round is promising.
    I might still work a few levels of sorcerer into the build because the UA for the Mage of Prismari coming in the book they'll release in November fits the character theme perfectly and the overall mechanics near perfectly.

  • @rparavicini
    @rparavicini 3 роки тому +3

    How about Grasp of Hadar instead of Crusher (via Eldritch Adept), instead of taking 2 more warlock levels?

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 роки тому +1

      An alternative, for sure. I like the other things we get from Warlock, but if you're intent on, say, getting to those higher level sorc spells etc. and prefer a dip, it's not a bad idea.

  • @Justanacorn13
    @Justanacorn13 3 роки тому

    I understand your stance on deck of many things, but I think it’s actually a pretty potent learning opportunity for relic-happy DMs. Giving a party a deck will quickly destabilize the campaign unless you can adapt very quickly and think on your feet. It’s made me think a lot more about what items I give out at what point

  • @ericpeirce5598
    @ericpeirce5598 3 роки тому +4

    Any character that takes levels in Warlock can always justify other abilities being "unlocked" as a part of their powers being granted by their patron. Seems like one of the easiest ones to storyline, depending on the patron/class combos that are chosen.

    • @eainjones9509
      @eainjones9509 3 роки тому +1

      I had a Fiend Warlock who's patron would present upgrades and abilities as gifts, and encourage the player to test them out immediately, all with the intention of corrupting her and making her violent. When she casted fireball for the first time, I made sure to describe the damage as horrifically as possible to make it clear just how destructive she was becoming. Good times.

  • @TheDoom2030
    @TheDoom2030 3 роки тому

    Just hit level 4 with this build last night, desert campaign so we reflavored the spike growth to cacti, turned an ogre into a pincushion in one turn cycle, just absolutely loving it !

  • @Solrex_the_Sun_King
    @Solrex_the_Sun_King 2 роки тому +12

    This is the type of person that if he was offered a magic item that replaced all d20’s with a 4d6-4 roll, he would absolutely use it. “1/1296 chance to crit? Sounds good to me.”

    • @nicholass5621
      @nicholass5621 2 роки тому +1

      4d6-4 is lower on average than 1d20

    • @purpur5
      @purpur5 2 роки тому +3

      That and there's a chance to roll a 0, which kind of doesn't make sense (lower than nat1?)
      6d4-4 though...

    • @Solrex_the_Sun_King
      @Solrex_the_Sun_King Рік тому

      @@purpur5 yikes how many d4's are you rolling?

    • @purpur5
      @purpur5 Рік тому +1

      Well I wouldn't include Such a magic item xd IT just has a mechanical Effect of making nat1 impossible, nat20 next to impossible, and 11 very likely. This would basically be a Universal and worse version of Reliable Talent

  • @fubarace1027
    @fubarace1027 2 роки тому

    A newer spell that would assist in this build, from the Strixhaven book, Vortex Warp allows you to move an enemy. Lvl 2 sorc/wiz list.
    90' range. You magically twist space around another creature you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw (the target can choose to fail), or the target is teleported to an unoccupied space of your choice that you can see within range. The chosen space must be on a surface or in a liquid that can support the target without the target having to squeeze.
    At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the range of the spell increases by 30 feet for each slot level above 2nd.
    Spell Lists. Artificer, Sorcerer, Wizard

  • @Shikiro14
    @Shikiro14 3 роки тому +6

    Enjoy reducing luck and chance you say? Still waiting for your build on player and monster dice result manipulation via spells, feats, and other racial/class features to get all the results you want!! The anyway you want it. That's the way we need it build.

  • @Mr911superstar
    @Mr911superstar 3 роки тому +1

    The following turn after their dash, reposition and hit them diagonally into the middle of the spikes 🥰

  • @GaiusTulliusCatallusXXC
    @GaiusTulliusCatallusXXC 3 роки тому +3

    I love this concept (and think it’s cool that it finally beat the Bladesinger) but whenever I’ve considered it myself I find myself too bogged down by its flaws. It assumes enemies are not able to fly, teleport, phase/plane shift, or make ranged attacks (perhaps this is just my own experience but it seems to me that this is not a great assumption, especially at high levels of play). Also, it has a tendency to leave the battlefield overcontrolled. Getting into and out of melee is very hard due to Spike Growth’s large AoE and damaging property. Therefore, no one moves within this massive area resulting in a very static (and often unfun) encounter. In short, love the numbers but feel like you will rarely see them in game.

    • @TheRobversion1
      @TheRobversion1 3 роки тому +1

      i've played a similar build already in the past and it works. this is just the type of build you discuss with your party mates at session zero (check if there;s any melee guys). while fly, teleport are indeed weakness of the build; ranged attacks or plane shift arent (unless the enemy can spam plane shift every turn). a ranged attacker will still be grated. for a flyer, i'd just hit them with something that makes them go prone then let them enjoy the falling dmg into the spikes. only teleport is an issue really. but lets be honest, aside from a handful of stuff that can prevent teleports, it's always an issue.

  • @gabrielseller6434
    @gabrielseller6434 3 роки тому +2

    In place of Fey Touched (more as an alternative to crossbow expert) I’d strongly consider Mobile. Gets you out in the event you get bum rushed and gets the additional movement speed to get from either side of the briar patch easier

  • @anniedarkheart5224
    @anniedarkheart5224 3 роки тому

    Super fun build! Cool to see it from Genie Sorlock. In our current campaign, bae's Druid of the Moon did Spike Growth and Wild Shape Grapple+Drags. The Genie Sorlock is understandably a better engine since it's more invested to the playstyle, but it doesn't stop allies from gaining even more value from abusing dragging!

  • @Taida-x9k
    @Taida-x9k Рік тому

    Bestow Curse would be a huge damage boost, since the 1d8 increase for each spell damage, meaning each EB hit and every 5feet moved in Spike Growth triggers the 1d8, meaning 5d8 per blast, with grasp of hadar and repelling blast.

  • @scottmcley5111
    @scottmcley5111 3 роки тому +1

    Was messing around with a Warlock 4/Rune Knight 16 melee version of the cheese grater.

  • @PrometheanConsulting
    @PrometheanConsulting 2 роки тому

    As a 3.5 Beguiler, I came to love Solid Fog (lvl 4) which I think would complement this build nicely as a control option. It works contrary to your DPS machine but it limits enemy movement to 5/10 PERIOD regardless of their actual move speed (and it's 3D so it limits flight). If you overlap them, nobody is getting out of your briar patch. They aren't taking damage as quickly but neither are they escaping nor exceeding your control.
    I don't know the 5e mechanics, but I used it to lock down a big dangerous foe and then focused on counterspells or other control/enhancement and let my party deal the damage as opponents tried to emerge.

  • @edwardaaron5606
    @edwardaaron5606 3 роки тому +1

    Crazy build man, like a good crazy, will def play it one day, lol
    Just some changes for my build, I'll prefer use divine soul sorc rather than wild,
    1. can be a support with steroid when necessary.
    2. spiritual weapon can be up cast even though will abandon the telekinesis. oh and spiritual weapon can help you when dealing with flying enemy. just think about it now.
    3. favored by the gods are more reliable.

    • @TheRobversion1
      @TheRobversion1 3 роки тому +1

      same reasons i went the divine soul route except for #2. i'd replace #2 with guidance access to boost initiative and for utility out of combat.

  • @SpiderWaffle
    @SpiderWaffle 3 роки тому

    1:07:05 In the right situations you could get more than 70, potentially the full 85ft (arguably it's even 95ft). Simplest ideal scenario: target starts in corner of the 20x20ft square, you adjacent outside of square. You cast EB pushing 30ft across the edge, then pull back 15ft, for 45ft total, and displacing them now 20ft away, you move diagonally first 5ft and then go along the outside edge to be adjacent to them again with 20ft of movement, then cast your next blast to push 40ft across to the opposite edge of the patch, 90degrees different direction from the first EB. There's a good argument that you can apply both repelling blast when you hit and grasp of hadar when you hit to move 20ft total, with 0 net displacement, just like how the dao+crusher can move up and repelling blast upward on the same EB or even beam. For both cases, the timing is unclear and up to DM interpretation. With this you could still get the full 95ft of movement by just pushing 10 more feet on the first blast, and then moving 30ft instead of 20ft to be adjacent to them again.

  • @DarthVadersHeart
    @DarthVadersHeart 3 роки тому +1

    Level 1 party we were just starting a new campaign and just came to our first combat and rolled initiative. I went first as a wild magic sorc. First time I go to cast a spell and roll on the wild surge table and get the good old fireball, complete TPK in the first turn and combat. From then on I was forbidden to play Wild mage sroc at the table again. :D

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 роки тому +1

      Ha ha ha! YES! And... that is the worst! Stupid Wild Magic! :P

  • @DrXtoph
    @DrXtoph 2 роки тому

    You're the best! This is my obligatory comment to enhance your UA-cam algorithm performance.

  • @AnoNYmous-bz2ef
    @AnoNYmous-bz2ef 3 роки тому +2

    Lol thank you for letting us participate in this psychosocial experiment. This is anecdotal proof that people will mess around with surveys if they can afford to.
    I think the biggest drawback isn't that it's gamebreaking, ranged enemies going prone in the briar patch would more or less mitigate the damage, the biggest drawback is that the encounters would then have to revolve around your character and that just might not be very enjoyable for other players.

    • @TheRobversion1
      @TheRobversion1 3 роки тому +1

      i think this depends on the other players. if you're playing with a bunch of optimizers or combat oriented folks it would be fun. if you're playing with people who are into more social or rp stuff then it wouldn't be fun. but let's be honest, if someone is playing for more social and rp, any combat optimized build wouldn't be fun anyway. those players would rather skip combats and just go back to hogging the spotlight RPing.

    • @AnoNYmous-bz2ef
      @AnoNYmous-bz2ef 3 роки тому +1

      @@TheRobversion1 Even if you're playing with other optimizers, if their characters are purely melee like the Swashbuckler or, in an even more extreme case, a Paladin, they probably won't enjoy being barred from the area where the enemies are. Much less if the enemies can go prone in the briars and pelt them with arrows and spears.

    • @TheRobversion1
      @TheRobversion1 3 роки тому

      @@AnoNYmous-bz2ef fair point though i suspect most optimizers would discuss their builds at session zero with their allies and see if they need to change builds (to take into consideration conflicting synergies) or look for synergies between builds. i am assuming if a party is playing with a cheese grater, most would be casters. same way if someone is playing with a gloomstalker, no one will be playing a light cleric.

    • @AnoNYmous-bz2ef
      @AnoNYmous-bz2ef 3 роки тому

      @@TheRobversion1 You'd be surprised that a lot just go with 'this is the build I wanna play, do yours and I'll do mine'.

    • @TheRobversion1
      @TheRobversion1 3 роки тому

      @@AnoNYmous-bz2ef yup i've played in those tables too. i was just saying as the prospective cheese grater player, i'd be the one to adjust if others wouldn't. that way i don't screw up any of my allies builds. so again, we go back to what i said. depends on the "players."

  • @beemeerm4332
    @beemeerm4332 3 роки тому

    Edit: I just noticed I wasnt the first thinking of Swarmkeepeer... oh well. : )
    Hi
    This build have similar tactics as my ranger/fighter build.
    Instead of using EB etc for movement I was thinking of using Gathered swarm from the Swarmkeeper ranger that gives me a free forced movement up to 15 ft. and combined with Thorn whip (Drudic warrior feat.) for 10+10 ft. forced pull movement and damage with Extra attack.
    At level 7 Swarmkeeper I would also be able to fly inside the Spike growth as well.
    Im a newbie when it comes to DnD so I might have overlooked or missed something. : )
    Thx for all your great videos here!
    I also so looking forward to the oneshot game with Treatmonk and Dungeon dudes! : D

  • @ile3rd
    @ile3rd Рік тому

    Possible additional trick.....when you get metamagic at Sorc 3, take Distant Spell and combine it with Thunderwave as a way to chuck multiple enemies into your Spike Growth early in combat from 30 feet away.

  • @mytzlplk
    @mytzlplk Рік тому

    Back-to-back Unicorn summonings. Odds are 1/2,500 . First time, it saved one party member. Second time, it saved the entire party. The Unicorn is now the party's patron.

  • @UrthFyr3
    @UrthFyr3 Рік тому

    One of my favorite characters I've played was a war forged wild Magic sorcerer. On one cast I got a cloud of butterflies that my Dm flavored as micro machines with butterfly wings. He let me use them as a free mage hand for the rest of that campaign as long as I said "Vroom Vroom Butterflies" first!

  • @mbuhtz
    @mbuhtz Рік тому

    I'm currently playing a druid and as soon as I got L2 spells, I did a version of this using spike growth and thorn whip. It TORE through low level enemies, and since I'm playing a (modified) spore druid with a focus on plants and herbalism/potions, it was quite thematic. Amd since I play with aono and a melee fighter, I can pull enemies to them instead of them having to wade through my spike growth.

  • @snyderpyro
    @snyderpyro 3 роки тому +2

    We did something similar in a game where we haste and fly our barbarian who grapples people and runs them 30 feet in a circle. 2 12d4 was fun to do.

  • @TrueJesse
    @TrueJesse 3 роки тому +1

    Amazing video as always, would love to see your take on a gloomstalker. Keep up the great work, I listen to these videos at work and they make the time fly by.

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 роки тому +1

      Ok! I've done Gloomstalker levels in a couple of builds, but not one that's *mostly* Gloomstalker. Will add it to the list.

    • @TheRobversion1
      @TheRobversion1 3 роки тому

      @@DnDDeepDive iirc you haven't done a melee gloomstalker yet right? might be interesting to do a melee one.

  • @ZaeroS182
    @ZaeroS182 3 роки тому +1

    Hola Colby, estoy muy bien, gracias! Really great content as always!

  • @Wouldyoukindly4545
    @Wouldyoukindly4545 2 роки тому

    I haven't looked into it further, but I wonder if spike growth would be good on the dive bomber rather than haste. Drag the enemy round and round over the terrain and then to the middle and up 10 feet at the end to drop them and have them land prone. Works as long as the ceiling is less than 10 feet up.