3:29 One buff I could see would be to have duality take a page from the other new item and have its internal cooldown be reduced each time you land a basic attack and/or activate an ability. I also think a 10% CDR reduction would play nice with the item, especially in tandem with the before idea.
Yeah cooldown would be nice so maybe it could replace Joutuns for some characters, I would definitely be interested to see some big changes to this item. Hi-rez said they didn't release it last patch because it was too broken, I imagine it had no cooldown or a much lower cooldown, so maybe they'll revert it once the community shows they don't like the item. Thanks for the comment!
Boosting further the visibility of this item, helping us understand where it does great or poorly, and the possible directions it could be taken with factual data is amazing! Love this work :).
The problem is there's ability based then auto attack based gods, and intending that auto attack gods have a ability based build kind of works against itself. It's better to go for one or the other. A jack of all trades is a master of none
Just going to list the changes to the weapon from the may 28th patch notes: Increased Physical Power from 40 to 55 Decreased Cooldown from 5s to 3s Removed Basic Attack Damage reduction Decreased Proc Damage from 50% of your Basic Attack Power to 25% of your Basic Attack Power This change equates to 100% of your Basic Attack Power + 25% of your Basic Attack Power + 100% damage from any ability item procs
Hey, I love that you decided to give this item a go. As soon as I noticed it in patch notes I wanted to do some testing to see what I could do with it and sadly came to the same conclusion as you, not worth on auto attack hunters. Recently I've been having a lot of fun with nut and a full cooldown build, it's a little unique for what I consider an auto attack focused build. The main reason I believe it works is thanks to Nut's 1-3 synergy with cooldown reset. I'm quite interested in what you could figure out with the maths behind it, probably hard to consider the usefulness of the cooldown with python simulations, but maybe just another long term hunter player has some thoughts on it. The build consists of deaths embrace (will make sense in the end), stormseeker (my one and only source basically of attack speed it can easily stack with Nut since they forgot to limit her 1 like they did with rama when getting stacks), soul eater (not 100% sure but feels like I get more sustain on my 1 with this over devo's, and the cd helps me reach 40%). envenomed executioner( purely because the passive is too strong to let up, I get some aspeed but the aspeed is moot after about 30 minute game also main source of penetration), fail not (big stat stick with 20% cd) and finally malicious deathbringer. This brings it all together to 40% cd reduction, each auto reducing cd by .33 and if critting by 1.33s, 3 will instantly bring 1 off cooldown on nut and has lower cd, so abuse the aoe crits to get instant 3 back up and another 1 afterwards. I did rudimentary testing and killtime on tanks is quite long but considering the utility it brings I do wonder about your thoughts.This build really only works on Nut thanks to the few unique parts of her kit. Sorry for the novel but as a long term hunter player I'm excited to talk about a unique twist on an auto attack hunter.
Really interesting video. Duality is a very odd item as building from Light Blade tree and having AS you would assume it is intended for autoattack focused gods, but it only has value when paired with Bluestone, Heartseeker or Crusher. In my opinion, it would be better if it was built from Morningstar tree removing the AS and adding either Pen or some CDR, leaving the item for ability focused gods... They could even move Dominance to Light Blade tree to make space, which IS ALREADY autoattack focused and gives AS; just makes more sense to me 🤷🏻♂ Great video!!
Yeah I thought Exactly the same! It being in that tree makes it super confusing, especially for new players. I think you're spot on it should swap with dominance! I was really excited when I first saw the item because I thought it would completely change Hunter builds, until I saw the cooldown, massive let down. Thank you!
Having seen what no-ICD Duality looked like - regardless of balance state, you would not want to fight into it. And damage procs were not even the scariest part.
I get it for other classes (warriors especially with redstone) but maybe hunters would be okay or is there something I’m forgetting about👀 what was the scariest part? I also thought maybe this was initially intended to be a hunter item (hence it’s in the qinns tree), and Lermy said they had to nerf it before release so I had a suspicion it had no or very low internal cooldown, great idea to try and completely shift hunter builds
Hi. Love all of the guides for hunters that you make especially for Charybdis, I just have 1 question. How do I decide at the beginning of the match whether I should go for the crit build or the Qins build on her?
Hi, I’d always make sure you have qinns in the build, personally I like diamond arrow, devs, qinns, executioner, silver branch, odessyus bow on her the best. But if the enemy team comp had 4squishies i might go crit instead:) its really up to personal preference, id try both and just see which one you perform better with :)
Yes I agree (although I still don't think its good on any class ATM), I don't have the means to test it for ability characters, but I did tag zapman's video so you can get a pros opinion, and I mentioned this in the video itself in the first 17secs, thanks for the comment!
@@SmiteMathsI agree with some of zapman’s points, but I think I, this commenter, and others were just curious about the math and what numbers this provides for ability assassins. Though if that’s not something easily testable then that’s understandable.
@@crucial1303yeah honestly I’d love to be able to do that for you guys, I can definitely model individual gods abilities + cooldowns and get some (probably) pretty insightful results, it’s just a matter of finding the time to implement + test all of the code. For now I’d just listen to the pros and see what feels good in game! Thanks for the comment I completely see where people are coming from
Loki, awilix, or ullr are decent picks for this item. The problem is, those are decent characters to pick up the item on but what item would you get rid of to pick the item up? Like, the only people capable of utilizing it have better options
Once again asking by the grace of the gods for you to grant me a boon and show us the dps of new olorun with the mage adcs items that were buffed and his new 100% crit passive.
Definitely on my radar! I’m also interested to see mage ADCs damage, gotta implement a lot of code and I’m in the middle of a big project atm so you’ll be waiting! Sorry! Thanks for the comment!
hirez should start hesitating when they release these terrible items now that they know a champion truth seeker exists to cut through their faulty non-maths :p
Hahaha thanks, I think they know how the numbers will work out, from what I gather it was supposed to have no internal cooldown but it was too OP on certain characters like ratotoska so they tuned it down :(
At first glance and without doing any math, this item needs one of two things to become viable for more than a select handful of characters They either need to guarantee that the proc caused by the auto attack is getting full damage value on the prox, none of this subsequent hit damage reduction stuff. Or, they should probably add an internal cooldown reduction mechanic tied to landing successful basic attacks
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3:29 One buff I could see would be to have duality take a page from the other new item and have its internal cooldown be reduced each time you land a basic attack and/or activate an ability. I also think a 10% CDR reduction would play nice with the item, especially in tandem with the before idea.
Yeah cooldown would be nice so maybe it could replace Joutuns for some characters, I would definitely be interested to see some big changes to this item. Hi-rez said they didn't release it last patch because it was too broken, I imagine it had no cooldown or a much lower cooldown, so maybe they'll revert it once the community shows they don't like the item. Thanks for the comment!
Boosting further the visibility of this item, helping us understand where it does great or poorly, and the possible directions it could be taken with factual data is amazing! Love this work :).
Thank you! That means a lot :) !!
The problem is there's ability based then auto attack based gods, and intending that auto attack gods have a ability based build kind of works against itself. It's better to go for one or the other.
A jack of all trades is a master of none
Just going to list the changes to the weapon from the may 28th patch notes:
Increased Physical Power from 40 to 55
Decreased Cooldown from 5s to 3s
Removed Basic Attack Damage reduction
Decreased Proc Damage from 50% of your Basic Attack Power to 25% of your Basic Attack Power
This change equates to 100% of your Basic Attack Power + 25% of your Basic Attack Power + 100% damage from any ability item procs
Thank you! I considered making another video but I’m pretty sure the item’s still non-optimal on all classes which is a real shame!
Hey, I love that you decided to give this item a go. As soon as I noticed it in patch notes I wanted to do some testing to see what I could do with it and sadly came to the same conclusion as you, not worth on auto attack hunters.
Recently I've been having a lot of fun with nut and a full cooldown build, it's a little unique for what I consider an auto attack focused build. The main reason I believe it works is thanks to Nut's 1-3 synergy with cooldown reset.
I'm quite interested in what you could figure out with the maths behind it, probably hard to consider the usefulness of the cooldown with python simulations, but maybe just another long term hunter player has some thoughts on it.
The build consists of deaths embrace (will make sense in the end), stormseeker (my one and only source basically of attack speed it can easily stack with Nut since they forgot to limit her 1 like they did with rama when getting stacks), soul eater (not 100% sure but feels like I get more sustain on my 1 with this over devo's, and the cd helps me reach 40%). envenomed executioner( purely because the passive is too strong to let up, I get some aspeed but the aspeed is moot after about 30 minute game also main source of penetration), fail not (big stat stick with 20% cd) and finally malicious deathbringer.
This brings it all together to 40% cd reduction, each auto reducing cd by .33 and if critting by 1.33s, 3 will instantly bring 1 off cooldown on nut and has lower cd, so abuse the aoe crits to get instant 3 back up and another 1 afterwards. I did rudimentary testing and killtime on tanks is quite long but considering the utility it brings I do wonder about your thoughts.This build really only works on Nut thanks to the few unique parts of her kit. Sorry for the novel but as a long term hunter player I'm excited to talk about a unique twist on an auto attack hunter.
Excellent choice in music as well as delivery of information. I've seen a few of your videos, but now I'm subbing!
Thank you!
Really interesting video. Duality is a very odd item as building from Light Blade tree and having AS you would assume it is intended for autoattack focused gods, but it only has value when paired with Bluestone, Heartseeker or Crusher.
In my opinion, it would be better if it was built from Morningstar tree removing the AS and adding either Pen or some CDR, leaving the item for ability focused gods...
They could even move Dominance to Light Blade tree to make space, which IS ALREADY autoattack focused and gives AS; just makes more sense to me 🤷🏻♂
Great video!!
Yeah I thought Exactly the same! It being in that tree makes it super confusing, especially for new players. I think you're spot on it should swap with dominance! I was really excited when I first saw the item because I thought it would completely change Hunter builds, until I saw the cooldown, massive let down. Thank you!
Having seen what no-ICD Duality looked like - regardless of balance state, you would not want to fight into it. And damage procs were not even the scariest part.
I get it for other classes (warriors especially with redstone) but maybe hunters would be okay or is there something I’m forgetting about👀 what was the scariest part? I also thought maybe this was initially intended to be a hunter item (hence it’s in the qinns tree), and Lermy said they had to nerf it before release so I had a suspicion it had no or very low internal cooldown, great idea to try and completely shift hunter builds
@@SmiteMaths Imagine Ratatoskr with green acorn and duality. Good luck killing him without 80% antiheal!
@@Flareb00t Sheeeshhh hahahaha, sounds so fun but yeah Jesus Christ😂😂
Same feeling as the Warframe UA-camr who always starts videos with “Let’s do some Math”
Just found you and i love this i cant wait to see you in smite2
Appreciate you bro!!
@SmiteMaths some math beginner guides may be a good one stuff like the math of protections vs damage, %pen and it's effectiveness
@@Jeraco24 that’s literally what I’m working on now!! Stay tuned!!
@@SmiteMaths aye! Called it. I'll throw your name out there to some friends of mine who are learning the game
Hi. Love all of the guides for hunters that you make especially for Charybdis, I just have 1 question. How do I decide at the beginning of the match whether I should go for the crit build or the Qins build on her?
Hi, I’d always make sure you have qinns in the build, personally I like diamond arrow, devs, qinns, executioner, silver branch, odessyus bow on her the best. But if the enemy team comp had 4squishies i might go crit instead:) its really up to personal preference, id try both and just see which one you perform better with :)
What about griffonwing? I literally can't play without it lol
It's not intended for hunters. should be testing the ways it's good on assassin's and warriors
Yes I agree (although I still don't think its good on any class ATM), I don't have the means to test it for ability characters, but I did tag zapman's video so you can get a pros opinion, and I mentioned this in the video itself in the first 17secs, thanks for the comment!
@@SmiteMathsI agree with some of zapman’s points, but I think I, this commenter, and others were just curious about the math and what numbers this provides for ability assassins. Though if that’s not something easily testable then that’s understandable.
@@crucial1303yeah honestly I’d love to be able to do that for you guys, I can definitely model individual gods abilities + cooldowns and get some (probably) pretty insightful results, it’s just a matter of finding the time to implement + test all of the code. For now I’d just listen to the pros and see what feels good in game! Thanks for the comment I completely see where people are coming from
Loki, awilix, or ullr are decent picks for this item.
The problem is, those are decent characters to pick up the item on but what item would you get rid of to pick the item up? Like, the only people capable of utilizing it have better options
@@Acusumano25 ravana is another one, he's ability based but utilizes the attack speed for his combos
Does this item cause basic attacks to trigger hydras?
Turns out the answer is no. That's kinda lame
I haven’t tested that😧 I doubt it does, because I think it’s tied to using an ability, but it may!!
@@SmiteMaths I tested it in jungle practice. It does not proc, which is kind of a shame, could have been a cool addition
@@mochmaster45 yeah lots of things could be really interesting with this item!
Once again asking by the grace of the gods for you to grant me a boon and show us the dps of new olorun with the mage adcs items that were buffed and his new 100% crit passive.
Definitely on my radar! I’m also interested to see mage ADCs damage, gotta implement a lot of code and I’m in the middle of a big project atm so you’ll be waiting! Sorry! Thanks for the comment!
hirez should start hesitating when they release these terrible items now that they know a champion truth seeker exists to cut through their faulty non-maths :p
Hahaha thanks, I think they know how the numbers will work out, from what I gather it was supposed to have no internal cooldown but it was too OP on certain characters like ratotoska so they tuned it down :(
Curseweaver video incoming?
I switch it with trans on chiron and it seems strong! Im a big fan
can we get a nut build vid
It make jotunns cunning alot easier to use
Borderline good
Thk u so much bro
No problem 🙏🙏 thank you!
At first glance and without doing any math, this item needs one of two things to become viable for more than a select handful of characters
They either need to guarantee that the proc caused by the auto attack is getting full damage value on the prox, none of this subsequent hit damage reduction stuff. Or, they should probably add an internal cooldown reduction mechanic tied to landing successful basic attacks
banger vid