I BEAMS VS. A ARMS! Which is BETTER? PRERUNNER 101
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2020
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I have been eager to start this series for a some time and am glad to kick it off. In this first video, we discuss some of the differences between I Beam and A Arm suspension systems in order to help you decide what to run on your prerunner. We also compare the pros and cons of each to help you learn what their strengths and weaknesses are. By the end, you should have enough information to make your choice!!
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Hey guys! This video came out longer than expected, so if you want to skip to some specific points, here are some time stamps! Also, let me know what other videos you would like to see in this series.
Pros and Cons of Beams: 3:34
Pros and Cons of A Arms: 9:56
Differences between Beams and A Arms: 12:33
Costs of each setup: 15:19
My Recommendations: 22:59
Waaaaaaaasa!a5a5a5a5a5a55aa5a55aa55a5a5a5a5aa55a5aa5a55a5a5aa55a5a5a5a5a5a5a5a5a5a5a5a5a5a5a5a5a5a5aa5a55a5a4a5aa45a4a4a4a4a4a4a4a4a5a5a5a5aa4a4a44aa44aa4a4a4a4a4a4a4a4a4a4a4a4a4a4a4a4a4a44aa4a4a
who is selling the 4x4 beam kits
Good info often takes some time to dish out. No worries and appreciate the video!
Very very impressed what this young man 20 years old with what seems like a lifetime of suspension and off-road knowledge
Absolutely agree. Impressive knowledge especially for his age
Came to say this. Most kids this age usually have massive amounts of knowledge of video games or "Cush" that is in no way related to what’s being talked about here,,,lol
You guys should do a video on how to do your own beams 2 & 4x4. Would be sweet.
Yup 👍🏼
4x4 dana 44 ttb would be interesting, agreed
@@burtgummerVerified that it would
Double wishbone or A arm independent suspension (and multi link independent for that matter) absolutely gain negative camber for exactly the reason you describe starting at 13:23. If you have so much body roll that you are overcoming the suspension's ability to gain negative camber you may have too much body roll. It could also be that you have an extreme amount of travel for the length of your arms or packaging forced you to compromise.
As you've drawn the A arms, they are the same length and parallel to each other (more or less). This is not usually how these are designed for the exact reason you describe. From the front the arms will usually converge at a point (the instant center) and from what I have seen the lower arm is usually longer. From the side view there are also angles in the arms which result in anti-dive, anti-lift and anti-squat geometry
The design of suspensions is used in many high performance situations (on and off road) precisely because you have more control over the tire contact patch as the suspension cycles. Usually controlling body roll is taken care of by suspension geometry design and then anti-roll bars and damper tuning.
I am looking forward to this series. I really enjoy suspension design discussions.
Id like to see a 4x4 build on the channel, Ive always wanted a mildly done up f150 4x4 to go play with my jeep friends but make them feel slow on the straight aways
Not with that new wrangler coming out lol
“Hey guys...”. Come on.........Aaassaah dudes!
One thing not mentioned in regards to steering is ackerman and its effects on the street. I beams usually has horizontal uniball/balljoint/kingpin in short this means the steering angle is unlimited, you can have proper ackerman where the inner wheel turns more than the outer wheel. with a arms, specifically "race kits" the upper uniball is usually vertical , this gives about 32 degrees steering before the misalignments are maxed out. to compensate most kits run reverse ackerman where the outer wheel turns in further than the inner wheel; this causes scrub at low speeds and impedes steering radius. this topic is a rabbit hole but worth mentioning
Exactly the rabbit hole all of the different set ups designs etc really have trade offs even building something from the ground up with design.
To combat this issue, I ran a ballistic rod end for my upper, it had a misalignment of 74 degrees total or 37 degrees, which was more than enough considering the cv joint limitation.
@@davidfarmer Can you explain to me what angles you're referring to on 74/37 degrees? And you mention CV's, so I'm assuming you're running a 4x4?
@@JacopoSkydweller yeah it was for a 4wd spindle. basically 0 degrees with the tires straight forward, then all the way turned and bottoming out 37 degrees of misalignment. The bolt that goes through the ball of the joint run from the from of the vehicle to the back. this way there is no restriction on up and down travel.
Correct, but the spindle design, as well as the wheel offset play a role as well.
Fantastic info! Thanks for taking the time to go into great detail! Keep up the good work!
A wealth of awesome, useful info! I'm so glad I found your channel.
Good job Son, a intelligent presentation along with the modesty of mentioning you don’t know everything but always learning. Keep it up.
Awesome video bro! You are influencing me to make my prerunner here in Brazil! Huge thanks!
Keep it up 💪 it's really rad to see the channel grow and the builds get done.
Great information, thanks guys!
This information is straight gold dude
Awesome video! stoked to learn a little more about suspension geometry
Good job on explaining . Thanks
First 2 min got me subscribed! Love the approach!
First time here and I’m amazed by the knowledge! Subscribed and bells on !
For most of my life stock fords had I beams and Chevys had A frames. I believe this explains most of the differences in the way they drove. I'm not talking anything but stock from the factory with a lot of miles on them. My experience was that the ford front ends were more durable and almost impossible to damage. But the Chevys handled better on the road and were easier on tires. I also noticed that that with Chevys handling was far less impaired by lower quality tires. I believe if I was going to do a lot of off road driving with stock equipment I'd choose an old Ford. Once you move to modified equipment I suspect it has more to do with how much money and effort you put into it.
Awesome video man, really looking forward to more being added to the series. Keep up the good work🤘🏼🤙🏼
So can someone tell me why there's not one trophy truck that is beamed🤔
Keep up the good work digging the videos
exactly what I want to watch!
@ 14:00 - Yes, this is why correctly designed A arm suspension must take into account the weight, center of gravity, etc and design the suspension in order to better control the roll center and thus, rely less on the sway bar, increase traction and provide improved geometry through suspension cycle, including possible toe in through compression for stability if needed. More importantly, when the roll center is determined correctly for the given setup and the known roll angles are calculated, the suspension arms are designed to work in conjunction with this. To your point, typically you will see the upper A arm is shorter and at a slightly upward angle compared to the lower. This is done specifically to "pull in" the top of the outside tire to increase camber ankle and conversely decrease the camber angle on the outside tire. Through further geometry changes you can also make the tires toe in/out as needed as well so at bump you don't experience wondering or instability.
ssaaaah dudes!!! love the channel, lotsa cool info
Awesome love your point about how the viewers knowledge can help everyone 👍
Well presented. I'm impressed
Do a vid on rear suspension like links and deavers
Great video!!
Well done 👍🏻!
I like the longer videos. Also can you make more videos of the diesel truck behind you if possible.
Comin 😉
Can't wait to see more of the bricknose build
Great info!
Would love to see a video comparing i beams to a straight axle setup like jeepspeed XJs
Maybe a 4wd video of TTB Vs solid axle
Threat motorsports and Giant motorsports are another good company to go to for beam kits both 2WD and 4WD
Thank you for these videos. I am going to be building up a 2020 F-150 5.0 little by little over the years. I want to get rid of the electronic steering and do a long travel kit for the front. I will probably start with the rear first since it is a bit simpler. It is going to look like a dually for a bit probably with a wider Curie axle in the rear. I probably should of started with an older truck or someone elses build (I had 04 Ranger that would of been perfect) but one of my workers at the time really wanted it so I sold it to him.
Thank you i just bout a 94 f150 and have been wanting to build it this will help.
Dude I subbed and liked because of your thoroughness and damn I just love these fackin trucks!
Can you do a video on how much to move back motor on stock frame-truck and placement for beams and how much to move rear axle.
Rad!! Subbed!!🤙🤙
7:30 dana 44 ttb has a fairly good scrub radius if you do the skyjacker drop pivot shackles otherwise they are pretty good stock
This video Is very helpful, It helped me out with my design for a off-road "trophy truck" (similar to the raptor but cooler) to send to ford.
Could you do a video of what 'short course' links are vs traditional links? Or if you already covered somewhere that's great!
Giant Motorsport, and Threat Motorsports make solid products from Beams to Links kits and some WIY kits as well. 🤘🏼
I needed a new 4x4 and was sugested to buy a full size Bronco to build as a prerunner. am happy with it.The TTB can give you alot of travel with 4 heel drive. With lgears ockers and King shocks along with glass fenders and bedsides for tire clearance. it works well. I did some work plating i PUT SOME 96 SPINDLES ON THE BRakeCALIPERS BOLT TO THEM INSTEAD OF THE PINS. ITTHAT ONE ONLY HAD ONE STILL IN ALL THE WAY
Good luck boys
Thank you and subscribed
Hey Wing. This is cool. I'm on YOUR SIDE!! Will this logic translate to a 1st gen. Tacoma 4x4?
Super duty kept Twin I-Beam through 2002.
Ford started using them in 1965.
Dezertrangers.com is the shit for any newbie/garage fabber. Tons of knowledgeable and helpful folks with real-world experience. Hop on, browse for days, soak up knowledge, and ask any questions you have. Race-dezert has some great info as well, but it is geared more toward the experienced builder/racer.
Camber change is to compensate for body roll.
Otherwise you would have no contact patch at all just like your right side image
@wingsworld i have 2 twin i beams 460ci 8lug 88 and 90 and 1 twin traction beam 89 351w 4x4 5lug. 1 of 3 tru ks are stockish size tires... 90 has massive oversize tires 285 75 16's on some bart wheels and it scrubs at almost full lock. But i also have a full time locked rear end in it .
Good speaking.
Complete amateur here. I want to build a pre-runner, maybe a 3rd gen Ranger, maybe a mid 2k Tacoma. Currently own an 04 4x4 Ranger, it's a Torsion bar front end, IFS. I would definitely switch to 2WD for a pre-runner. Things I would like to know: where does the frame need to be reinforced and the engine caged? I understand why, but I guess my question is how do you know what is good enough to prevent control arm mounts from shearing off?
Thank you for your promise to get a microphone.
Have you heard about three point lighting?
Nice vid, I wonder how much travel can I get from my stock ranger ttb.
I’m planning to get a 79 f150 and doing a 18 or 20 inches of travel
So what do I do on the frame and the suspension because I’m new to it ,
I had to build up my radius arm to beams. I gusseted and plslated the beams put top & bottomm radius arm to beam mounts and added a vertical piece that tie them togetherand added a mount to the beams MADE GUSSET TEMOLATETS AND HAD A METAL SHOP COMPUTER NAVIGATED CUT VERY NICE THEN MY PRO WEILDER FRIEND AND i PUT THEM ALL ON AND HEQTED QND BENT WOME DOING SO TOO. i added an F250 pass side axle with the big U joints then cycled it in 4wheel drive while spining the wheels by hand while turning left and right clearing any tight spots and set the limit straps. i have put it through a lot of whoops some air and surprises with no problems. bought 96 glass fenders and hood with core support new radiator grill headlights split my astock fenders and added strength to the outside of my inner fenders and tubes to the core support. Went HID with the hes=adlights big improvrment and some brighter HID's with the same ballasts into a set if Hella cans for light further in frontbeams it changed the 87 to the 96 front end also 96 spindles the brake calapers bolt to and one was about to loose a pin of the 2 when I did. all new spindle bearing studs bearings and seals and outer axles to loose the tophat hubs. AMBLANCE STEARING ALSO. rEBUILT THE TRANSFER CASE PINNING THE OILER NRE PLANATARY GEARS AND CHAIN AND A DOUBLE COUPLER FRONT DRIVE SHAFT. banning driveshaft built me a new rear when mt new bronco graveyard went outon the way home from the river with no off roading towing a small boat do to Chineese U JointsPut glass bedsides on tooother work of course but it performs well.
I’m trying to do a desert runner kJ Jeep
So far I have OME 927 with 5100s and jba uppers
If the a arms where equal length upper vs lower and parallel like you have drawn them then they would be perfect for staright line driving. I beams on the other hand are perfect for turns but suck at straight line driving. By having smaller upper a arms and slightly angled you make a compromise for straight line vs turns because ther is a small change in camber but not as much as the I beams. Also I think an important thing is that a arms have usually less unsprung weight vs I beams and that makes them better the higher the speed especially compared to straight axles.
I wonder how much travel i could get out of my Ranger with the 2 wheel drive torsion bar suspension ? I know that Ford made the Edge and later Sport models with torsion bar suspension as a supposed stock prerunner . But it's nowhere near a real prerunner , even though it's way smoother than the coil sprung version . Have you ever driven a 2 wheel drive with torsion bar suspension ?
I’m not quite convinced with the a-arm diagram at 13:48. A-arms are designed to maintain a nearly vertical outside wheel. The purpose is to maintain maximal tire contact patch with the road surface. To do that the unequal length arms produce more camber as the wheel travels up in its stroke. It needs more camber to overcome the loss of camber due to body roll. So in the diagram the left side wheel (US drivers side) should be vertical.
I think an a arm truck usually corners better then beams. Not sure that there is any advantage for beams over a arms in cornering. Also you can usually eliminate 80 percent of body roll with a rear swaybar. Just my opinion. Cheers
If someone was building a custom tube chassis vehicle and wanted to use trailing arm rear suspension would running I-Beam suspension for the front suspension be a good idea? I don't know what suspension type is used on rock bouncers, rock crawlers, ultra4 vehicles, or on trophy trucks. Thanks in advance for any and all advice, opinions, or answers. Regards
I want to turn my 82 F150 4x4 into a streetable prerunner setup. What is my best setup options?
Thanks 👍🖖
yoooooo desert rangers! i have a superrrrrr old account on there too! that site was gold
Can you do a video on 4x4 vs 2wd pre runners.
Trabalho de vocês é muito bom meu sonho é ter uma caminhonete parecida .
Thinking about trying 2wd jeep front straight beam with double triangulated link and see how it works.
Have you seen @ThreeThirdsFab WJ on Instagram? Super sick long traveled Grand Cherokee
So do you sell weld on or bolt on long travel Kitts for 2wd 94 f 150. If so I'm very interested in doing so.
I believe they still used I beam front for 2wd f250s until the death of the 7.3l powerstroke. I say this as I have a 99 with I beams
Can you please suggest some books for fabricating pre runner chassis?
HM Racing Design!
Can you go from a solid axle to A-Arms
Maybe it's just cuz I'm not out there like yall are so i have a limited perspective but why does it seem like everyone is running A Arms rn? Is there some significant advantage they have or an improvement they've made recently. Been seeing alot of OBS fords with arms instead of beams on IG lately
Are beams possible with 4wd? I'm guessing not? But arms yes, right?
Whats better j arm or a arm?
Equal length A arms don't have any camber changes , but for some reason they almost always end up being long arm short arm systems .
It's to have more camber to compensate the body roll when cornering at high speed.
Camburgler ?
Any recommendation on a simple kit for 1994 f150 2wd
Camburg
I got a 97 2wd ranger anyone know who makes a good bolt on kit?
Pre 1980 fords had equal length beams. There was no 4wd ttb option then. Ford went to unequal length beams to make room for the differential on the ttb setup. You probably know this but your viewers might not.
Go with the pre 1980 forged 3/4 ton beams and bend them yourself.
Yo! Do a 4x4
I beams look cool doing jumps I prefer a arms though
Dirty Hooker travel!!!.. Ladies and gentlemen, The beam team is in the house!
Also know as whoop scissors
Long story short he's explain how and what to use for a truck you're going to take down rough dirt/sandy roads and jumping small hills ! And also explaining howuch money you need to build one and what style of suspension you can go with to go beat up your truck and not break as much if I had a lot of money I'd definitely build a twin I beam and a arm Chevy and ford hopefully when I'm a millionaire and kids are grown and moved away I'll do that
What do you guys think about bajakits kits?
A lot better alternatives. Dirtking being one of them that’s close in price point but quality is a lot better
What truck do you have I work at Baja kits
with I beams you need bent i beams. They come either forged or pitched. I say just take the shit to autofab and they take your old stock beams and install bent i beams, new coil springs and some heim jointed bilsteins. 90s f150s r the shit! u dont need no coil overs if u dont got a link in the rear. no link no expensive coil overs. 33 in tires no problem . good luck steering 37s
Damn dude has his shit together for a 20yr old
indonesia subtitle please
U can buy f150 stock beams and put them on a ranger it will be +4” and stronger then stock ranger beams. Your welcome.
Camber change on a short arm long arm IFS is due to the shorter arm being on top, and the difference in separation at the spindle vs the frame. generally with desert trucks this is a non issue during cornering because they all run sway bars.
In my opinion the best setup for SLA IFS is to have the camber neutral at ride height, negative camber at full compression and droop. this can be achieved by shortening the upper, and increasing the separation at the spindle, and or decreasing the separation at the frame. The reason this is advantageous is because your effective contact patch stays in the same spot so your track width is maintained during full travel swings, meaning the suspension wont bind. The rear axle will still have full traction and a flat contact patch. Also it might be a good idea to have your arms mounted parallel to each other, giving zero anti-dive. the reason being that you don't want caster changes to occur during full swing travel at speed. This also allows you to use the throttle and brakes to counter bucking that happens during whoops, or between hills. blip the throttle the hood comes up, blip the brakes the hood comes down. Also having the arms parallel makes bump steer a lot easier to cancel out. Ive also seen people set the angle of the arm mounts so that the front mounts are higher than the rear, this would basically help when hitting bumps as the suspension would bind less and move backwards towards the vehicle as it hit the bump, so basically the speed of the vehicle helps compress the suspension when it encounters a bump.
Funny I thought the truck would be at least 180k. Seems like ur in the 70k? Why not just give the actual number?
Can't believe Americans still call them I beams
Both are junk cause neither one has a solid front axle
Solid axles are fun, truss it coils/track bar and the biggest shock you can afford. But the Beam and A arm trucks alow for more travel. You'll be hard pressed to get more then 14" out of a axle truck.
i need to contact you asap how do i do that
Whats the name of this suspension? look like a Big "X" every wheel is also connected to the opposite side of the chassis.