Patriot vs Kinzhal
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2023
- Patriot and Kinzhals just recently came head to head. What happened? What do we know? What can we say?
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Patriot and Kinzhals just recently came head to head. What happened? What do we know? What can we say?
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ua-cam.com/channels/VDkfkGRzo0qcZ8AkB4TMuw.htmljoin
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Buy an Aircraft Model at Air Models! airmodels.net/?aff=173
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Take part to the community Q&A clicking the link below!
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www.reddit.com/r/Millennium7Lounge/
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Same as over claiming of kills and enemy losses
What we can be confident about is how many patriot missiles were fired from the footage ; we don't know what was hit on either side
Someone wrote that the kinzhal slows down to mach 3 or less before impact. Is this true?
If it slows down, then it becomes vulnerable to the patriot.
You're confusing what a battery is
Personally, I'd be much more interested in a serious assessment of the khmelnitsky strike - what happened exactly, how did they penetrate air defenses, what is lost, etc.
I feel ok watching a man talking with his vacuum cleaner.
The vacuum could be an AI, and the man a deep fake. You just don't know anymore nowadays.😮😮
Anyways, seems to be a Pinky and the Brain situation.
Need a t-shirt with Otis!
Wait, you don't talk to yours?
I actually hate the darn thing. It sucks.
@@crazylegssw It doesn't talk back.
Patriot menage to take down Kinzal not by PAC3 missiles but by ramming it louncher trucks into Kinzals 😂😂😂
A usual balanced and informed commentary of the type we so rarely seem to get in this fascinating topic. Thanks M7 for all your hard work and sharing your knowledge. Unfortunately, I’m not currently in a position where I can support your channel in any way other than subscribing, but would very much like to do so as soon as things are more financially stable for me. In the meantime please know your videos are always a highlight of my week and provide me with genuine excitement and motivation that I’m about to learn something from an unbiased and knowledgeable source about a topic I’m really interested in. It sounds OTT but your video’s really are one of the highlights of my week.
Thanks again and I hope to one day soon be able to offer more concrete support and reward for your work,
"balanced"? Leave all hope behind. You won't get anything balanced on western platforms. It's all pro current agenda or its banned.
I respect you and the information that you provide. It is unbiased, up to date, and on target. God bless you Sir.
I think a point you missed is this (from your earliest comments, I haven't hard the rest of the video yet): the Kinzhal only drops out of hypersonic shortly before hitting the target, but it's still going extremely fast, so even if it had a non-explosive but heavy object in place of an explosive warhead, it's still going to do enormous damage just from the kinetic energy alone ... add a warhead to that, and those systems don't NEED to be close together ... there's a lot of stuff that was just nearby which likely got damaged as well ... so there's nothing remotely surprising about Russia's claim ..: the only things that matter are 1 maths and 2 physics
They go similar speed as a ballistic missile but as they aren't very maneuverable... they aren't "hypersonic" class
@@dadejazzba402Hypersonic capability has nothing to do with maneuverability.
Thats just wrong. Kinetic energy does very little damage, ballistic missiles especially just drill into the ground. That was the case for the german "hypersonic ballistic rockets" aka the V2s, even despite having HE warheads, and it holds true for any weapon.
Theres a reason nobody uses railguns and almost every shell beyond 20mm has high explosives that does he major damage. Even HE-artillery uses airburst fuses whenever they can.
Russias claims only make sense if you do not understand anything about how the weapons work.
@@rdengin The "new" hypersonic missiles are about hypersonic maneuvering weapon.
The whole russian propaganda hype is pretending the Kinzhal is part of that weapon class, when it reality its just a primitive ballistic missiles being air launched. Only reason people think they are so hard to shoot down is BECAUSE they confuse them with hypersonoic maneuvering vehicles.
Indeed, in World War 2 the British did find out that the slow v1 flying bomb did produce much more damage than the hypersonic v2.both had the same 1000kg warhead. Kinshal has only a 500 kg Warhead. The damage radius should be not more than 50 m. The downward penetration should not be counted with surface targets. And people should ask the interesting question witch targeting system the kinschal actually uses. Hypersonic is highly counterproductive for precisely hitting ground targets.
That last point, about the reasons for the placement of the battery in Kiev, I think it's spot on. It's also perhaps a matter of morale. If they know the Russians would target Kiev again at some point, making a show out of stopping the attack would have good political value, and the fact that we are talking about it I think proves that
ABOLUTELY THIS!
there a a bunch of political, morale, and propoganda reasons to have a patriot battery in Kiev - many more eyes/cameras to record any successes, magnifying the impact they have.
Dont you think it damaged there image though? For instance, with the hit recorded on the ground, Russia proved that it has capacity to strike in an area thats defended by the prestigious patriot. I have seen people question, "what if that was a nuke?"
That I believe is the message russia was sending and l think the recipients got it loud and clear.
@ali speed no serious minded person thinks that a patriot can stop a nuke.
Any system would have trouble with a big volley of ballistic missiles. S400 has been defeated and evaded in Syria and in Ukraine. Ukraine lacks the infrastructure to fully defend itself from strikes like some bigger heavily militarized countries.
Speaking of militarization, that's all the Russians have accomplished with this war is militarizing Ukraine. With all the NATO aid Ukraine is getting it's a matter of time before they hit Russia at home in a big way.
The fact that the person who recorded that video was dragged into a court should pretty much confirm that the patriot was hit, in that case. The Ukrainian state would absolutely not do that if that video was showing it performing well.
Simplicity in conveying vital information is the key in this podcast,keep it up and you always have audience!!
No one is talking about the two patriot missiles that just flew completely to a different direction compared to the rest and disappeared behind the buildings.
Turned 90 degrees and flew straight into the ground as we have seen the Patriot do before.
The ukronazis will claim that Russians those missiles were Russian and they hit residential buildings.
@@ctrlaltdebug plenty of pics of them in the ground
The clown said "it could be targets, we don't know" lol
I expect that would be covered under the term "misfires"?
It happens to all systems even if the Patriot gets more than average. It is possible that they might have been reacting to jamming, but as Russia did not have aircraft close, that is less likely.
A good point that is often missing from these kind of analysis, is the fact that the Patriots most likely shot their load into decoy missiles. It is assumed, that much like the Iskander-M that the Kinzhal has 6 decoys in its aft section that are launched during its terminal phase. These decoys emit a false radar signature and conduct jamming. Plus they burn like giant flares, thus also trying to spoof IR guided missiles. I would not be surprised if the original missile itself even drops chaff when locked by radar. Even if the Kinzhal does not have these decoys, you can be assured that the Russians 100% used other decoys in order to locate and empty the Patriots initial salvo. Only after which, the actual missile struck (from completely different direction).
I still don't get how y'all believe any Kinzhal actually hit the ground. The filmed explosions are fairly tame imo, compared to other Kinzhal strikes.
It's also entirely possible for Patriot to have intercepted 2 of them (assuming the other were decoys, as you say) since well Kinzhal is only technically a hypersonic (being ballistic)... it's not an HGV. And Patriot was basically designed to intercept ballistic missiles as well.
Third and final point: there was absolutely zero follow-up strike from Russia, which doesn't make sense. Had they actually hit and disabled (DEAD strike basically) the Patriot battery in Kyiv, one would that they'd strike it again with higher numbers the following day or night. But that never happened and the reduced strike that did happen ended up being entirely intercepted -> this leads to believe Patriot was never disabled at all.
@@sirdo946 exactly, as they say... the proof is in the pudding. If the airstrike was successful they would have continued their strike. But if ukraine is correct and they intercepted most of the munitions thrown at them that is around 100+ million bucks worth of munitions shot down without any impact. This would mean a tragic loss in funds for the russians especially as their economy is shrinking more and more every day and the war chest is diminishing. These strikes are money killers for russia.
@@sirdo946 all of the patriot systems have been moved
@@sirdo946 Even though Patriot was designed to strike the ballistic missiles but the question remains: does it do it well? I have my doubts it does. Not even taking I to account that Kinzhal is a manoeuvrable to some extent missile.
@@sirdo946 Russia said they hit 5 targets, that is consistent with their behaviour of not shooting at it again. However, this behaviour is illogical only if seen from Ukraine's claim of "none of the target was hit", so if Ukraine claim it doesn't hit then why don't Russia shoot again? this beg a question & causing logical paradox and therefore Ukraine's claim is less believable than Russia's claim.
Good information, thank you.
I'll say this much , if it hit em or not ,it has wiped out the invincibility s**t he was taking about.
Sure, the patriot is now proven to be the great decoy killer
Nothing invincible, once Patriot system runs out of missiles they are dead.
The invincibility of patriot or kinzhal?
As some people mentioned, its possible that the PAC-3 was operating in autonomous mode, trying to shoot down all incoming targets using as many missiles as possible. This could explain this large volley and different trajectories
Russians use fake missiles (decoys) that costs peanuts to fake PAC-3 into firing. Each Patriot missile costs about 4 million, Russian fake missile about few hundred dollars. Smart tactics.
If the Patriot missiles can reach speed of mach 4(3069mph) and khinzal hipersonic missile can reach mach 10(7600mph) , how the hell the Patriot can hit the khinzal
@@elcormoran1 It's trying to intercept the missile, not outrun it. All it needs to do is to place itself in the Kinzhal's way, and it doesn't need to be faster to do that.
@@Dimetropteryx that works only if it doesn't turn, something it definitely can do
@@elcormoran1 if the Khinzal is targeting the Patriot, the trajectory is directly into the Patriot launcher, so the Patriot can simply shoot toward the incoming Khinzal and both missile will meet & collide. Except, if the Khinzal fly overhead the Patriot launcher, the Patriot missile need to lead the Khinzal in order to hit it.
There were 2 large explosion on the ground, that could be the 2 missiles that Russia claimed they used, the rest of the targets that Ukraine shoot down could be 12 decoy from this 2 missiles.
The decoys would be going the same speed. Chances that with 12 missiles only the 12 decoys would be intercepted is extremely small. 11 decoys and 1 kinzhal is much more realistic from a chance perspective. 10 decoys and 2 kinzhals is even more likely.
Those two missiles that exploded were most likely cruise missiles, not ballistic, because there could be heard characteristic sound of small turbine engine in the background. There was also audible&visible work of 30mm Gepard self-propelled AA gun, that probably fired at one of those cruise missiles that exploded. It would not fire at ballistic threat.
2 large explosions where ?
Hypersonic decoy has kinetic impact that's destructive
@@pashapasovski5860 not enough to cause such an explosion by itself.
And they obviously are not going to the target. If they where they would follow the exact same trajectory as the payload itself, making it rather useless.
Yep, all the damage to the UnPatriots was buffed right out.
You know you are doing a good job when people are mad in the comments. I thank you sir for standing up against the internet hype be it pro-Russian or pro-Ukrainian, especially at the end where you ask the critical question of why there was no follow up attack if such a supposedly critical system to Ukraine's war effort was destroyed. Bravo.
If I may ask, would you be willing to make a video on the Indian Brahmos missiles and the significance of their deployment to the South China Sea?
Because all Russians wanted is to destroy american' patriot. They said the patriot will be destroyed as soon as it arrives on Ukraine and probably just wanted to show the world they are capable to do that.
As I have already said, Russian's morale is very low in Ukriane because they feel ukrianians as very close nation, but if americans join the war, Russian's morale would hit the sky. It's all amount measuring di***.
Just use CMO. Only issue with the Brahmos is the range (relative to the missiles in China's armement. If the Chinese get in range, Brahmos will be a pain in the butt. CMO currently estimates 2-3 HHQ-9's to engage 1 Brahmos. But the PLAN AND PLA Rocket Force can easily outrange them IF they are detected (land based systems).
Brahmos equipped naval ships currently don't have a significant capability to defend themselves.
Uhmm because was destroyed ....
Small note: USSR tactic for defending stationary object with long range SAMs is to put them BEHIND the object area. Opposite of what Ukraine did. Buildings just obscure line of sight and SAMs do have no engagement zone which is wasted by putting it in middle of city.
Unless you follow Russian example and put them on the roofs...
The launch site is at the airport which is more than 10 square kilometers of flat and open Terrain
The Patriot battery in the middle of the literal fucking airport looking at you real confused rn lol
That's because the patriot is hiding, not defending.
Patriots are typically put behind the target they're defending...
Pictures of undamaged systems are meaningless. They could be taken anytime anywhere. Pictures of damaged systems are more difficult to fake. But it can be done.
I mean, they could give us live coverage of the strike area proving that the kinzhal didnt infact hit like the russians claim. Am 100% sure there are cameras in the area of the explosion that recorded this impact.
The fact that Ukraine doesnt share this footage makes it clear for anyone that can connect the 2 dots.
@@alispeed5095 don't want to give the Russians confirmation of either how good or how bad the strike was. You don't want them knowing if they missed or not
@@alispeed5095 ever hears opsec
@@somebody700 I'm aware of those issues. But I also know the Russians have been putting out a lot of fake news, false flag operations and just plain lies.
It's very simple. Russia claimed to destroy an entire battery. Ukraine is all about pr and its an easy pr victory for ua to show undamaged patriots. The fact that they havnt tells me that patriot is damaged badly if not destroyed. Also, Kiev was targeted again for the next 2 day. Not a patriot in sight. I think the Russians are telling the truth here.
Not the battery but 5 launchers and a radar. Most of a battery yes
Russia claimed to destroy a battery. They can fly over Kiev to prove it.
My dude, look at the comment section, you have shaken the hornet's nest, good job. I think a weeks rest is well deserved for you.
If patriot was intentionally put there to BE a target for Russian missiles. Dont you think thats one expensive decoy? Doesn't it cost over 2 billion dollars plus a dozen million dollars PER rocket?
Calculated risk I guess... US probably knew what a Khinzal was capable of or not...
If the Patriot system works as intended... which seems to be the case... it also costs a lot to the Russian military, both in resources and image.
On the other hand, it could boost Raytheon's sales as lots of countries are likely to order those systems in the near future.
The entire system as marketed costs around $1 billion, including the system itself ($400 million for several launchers, the radar system and the command vehicle, spread out over several kilometres) plus a stockpile of missiles which are $4 million each.
Minimal damage?? A patriot battery costs a billion dollars EACH. How is destroying one and ruining its reputation while cementing the reputation of their own weapon system a minimal dent to the war effort?
Because it didn't happen...
Because Western media will tell you it didn't happen.
In a few years AI will be generating fake news reports for the same media, so you will have a "proof" that "it didn't happen"
@@SonsOfLorgar They’d never admit to it if it did and parts of it are already being sold on the internet
Thank you. Great graphics.
It’s a pity Ukraine arrested civilians who took pictures of the results of the damage on the Patriot battery, then we could have seen for ourselves. They made them post videos explaining how they were sorry for ‘helping the enemy’ unknowingly
It's a pithy Russia is arresting the scientists in charge of Khinzal development, wonder what went wrong?
@@LinusWelt well.. no argument from me :)
Who need reconnaissance satellites and planes when you have the Internet
all pictures taken by smartphones or digital camera nowadays all have a lot of information attached to them
worst case, the phones might had GPS on at that moment, which could attach the coordinate to the digital image file
less worse, civilians may have carelessly taken pictures in "sensitive" angles - those with a noticeable background, which could be used to identify the position of the battery on the map (there are stories of 4chan users did the same thing with ISIS propaganda video)
since the ukrainian soldiers around that cant be sure which civ had GPS on or properly know how to take picture, they had to forbid it altogether
@@LinusWelt Yeah that's why it literally shot down Russian aircraft after being destroyed
Even though if Patriot was blown up or not this has given valuable information to both sides.
Unfortunatelly, Ukrain became a testing ground for all the new shiny and deadly stuff Russia and Nato prepaired. As any other proxy, say Vietnam, Afganistan in 1980s etc.
7:00 Holy shit, did Ukraine just waste 30 PAC-3s in one night?! That's 150 Million bucks gone.
USA taxpayers, say CHEEESEEEE! 😂
@@domingodesantaclara1130they will replace them,west already has low amounts of ammunition
Don't worry. It's the US tax payer the one footing that bill.
Launching 30 PAC-3, 150 Mio$, using Patriot in real war conditions against a combined strike of cruise missiles, Hypersonic/ballistic, false targets and possibly drones, seeing how it performs and getting the data back, priceless. Engagements like these are going to be the basis for all future Patriot upgrades and possibly it's successor.
@@domingodesantaclara1130 Yep, so if I don't replace my car, it will cost me nothing...right?
So pleasant to hear some common sense on the internet. There is not a lot of it all around ... Thank you. Distinti saluti
Superb analyses
Even the AIM-120 leaves a smoke trail..., although reduced by some considerable amount, the smoke is still visible even on the 120-C7
Thanks for your insight, boss
Oh I never regret subscribing this channel blessed to see neutral analysis
I think it is worthwhile saying that if those 32 AD missiles were all from the Patriot battery targeting 2 Khinzal and some other cruise missiles, in termos of cost effectiveness this would be a staggering cost to UKR, especially since some launchers or radar unit may have been destroyed. I have seen estimates ranging from 500-1000 million $, vs. a 10-15M$ at most for the Russian missiles.
It is also worthwhile mentioning that 32 patriot missiles is more than 10% of the total possible missiles production annually (production may increase somewhat by the end of this year). These cost calculations are not favorable to Ukraine.
Well made video
Best analysis under the fog of war.
*Quick question and for future episodes. What is the expected use of AI for military technology integration? Or, should I say not only AI but SI (Synthetic Intelligence) which involves compute devices have the ability to independently "think" and not necessarily to just follow algorithms.*
I guess people will always love _internet flame wars_ , no matter the topic. :-)
Great report, but Zhuliany airport is south West of Kiev, in a very built up area, not south East. To me it's placement seems crazy, any target it intercepts would be over central Kiev.
😲 Damn! You are right it is a mistake! How could I miss it! 😠😳
Ahahaha! Ahahahahaha!😂
@@Millennium7HistoryTech The Patriot is on the Airfield so the F-16s Ukraine is getting have a safe Airport to operate from. Only now that Patriot has proven to be able to defend the Airport Nato has decided to send F-16 so Ukraine can get air superiority for the counter offensive.
@@einehrenmann6156 The only reason they are approving F-16 is because patriots failed and are too expensive, now the West needs another game changer to keep up the scharade.
The Patriot is there to hide behind the city as much as it is there to protect it.
excellent ---- thanks
Good analysis, thanks for an unbiased opinion
From what I heard, kinzhal can carry a cluster warhead so it may explain several vehicles damaged by single missile.
Or maybe Russia is lying.
News in the public domain is that 10 US officers were killed during the destruction of the Patriot battery. A total of 1 billion USD was lost in two minutes.
Do you have a source? It would be an interesting turn of events.
@@Millennium7HistoryTech Why would you even believe some rando in the youtube comments? 10 US officers is a comical claim, and even calling them "officers" is a very russian way to say that in english. Clear propaganda.
Source please, can't find anything myself corroborating this claim.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Source: trust me comrade.
I was expecting this so much
Thanks for your work. Factual analyzes like yours have become almost impossible to find on You Tube.
By "analyzes" you mean when he simply ignored a lot of known facts, and tried to portray like it's not clear weither the patriot is destroyed?
@@petunized The Americans say that a launcher was damaged. The Russians say that a radar and 5 launchers were destroyed.........Can you filter out the truth now?? If so, then you should start your own channel on You Tube and monetize it
@@videre8884 of coure they belive the russians, every westerners only lie after all and only putins speaks the truth, nobody else.
@@videre8884 I will be banned in no time like all the others, who strayed too far from agenda
One note to consider about the placment of patriot sites near by the capital rather than covering the counter attack force is that, like all radars, the patriot site's radar is visible far beyond the range that it can detect something, and while i have very low levels of respect for the Russian air forces, it would be highly unlikely that no one would notice a patriot radar in the middle of nowhere, imeadiatly showing your hand as to where you plan to engage from. on the other hand a strong kiev is good for the moral of the people, so defending it from missile attacks is valad
…and completely failing to do so was a public catastrophe.
@@nihluxler1890
There are limits to all systems.
Russia has far more than Ukraine of everything, yet Ukraine manages to penetrate Russian anti air all the time.
I see so much improvement in your videos, editing in this one is really good.
I like how you're objective and you put effort into fact checking, and you also go into details without making it boring.
This is top tier content and thank you for making it and sharing it with us
First class analysis and reasoning. As always, a masterclass in how to explicate and explain. Thank you, sir. Cheers from NZ🇳🇿.
As usual, a balanced and considered video. Good work M7.
Patriot is a big red target, you don't want it next to your shiny new currently will hidden brigades
I seriously hate this saying "the truth is somewhere in the middle". No matter what some people would claim, 2+2 will always be 4 and not "somewhere in the middle" 😂
The difference lies in people like you trying to claim the equation is 2+2=4 when the facts on the table says 1+2=3
and the other guy insists on 1+1=2
"Truth in the middle" refers to the tendency of two opposing sides to pull in their favor. So while the truth is 2+2=4, one side doesn't want a high number so they present it as 1+1=2, meanwhile the other side wants the number to be high so they present it as 3+3=6
@@alalalus7692 One side said Hitler was the most outstanding leader in the whole world. The other said that Hitler was the devil. Where is the hell the truth? In the middle? I don't think so.
@@karelstanzel9510 weak thinking, in case you didn't know people can be walking pieces of shit and still good leaders. And if you reply with some conspiracy shit about Hitler's "Top 5 decisions that failed the war", I'll tell you to go back to 2010s internet or go educate yourself
I understand that. But it might also happen that what Russians claim is true or Ukrainians (I don't believe Patriot can shoot down even a single Kinzhal not to say 6 of them). So how is the truth in the middle then?
Better to say "we have no proofs for any of those claims" and stop on that.
I would guess they don't put them too close to the front lines because they become vulnerable to light drone attacks there. But I am 100% just guessing ^^
Hi thank you very much for this very interesting video and explanation
4:58 this is a very interesting and key topic Could it be a way to run out Patriot launchers of missiles ? i mean ... a few missiles would be fired with multiple charges which being mistaken for single missiles would engage a large number of Patriots missiles
Emptied the slots could be followed up with another set of missiles that would pass the defense
There is a very simple reason the Russians didn't attack the patriot battery again: the target was missing.
The target was no more, you mean
😂
@@user-mt1qi4vd1z Or maybe he meant they were moved. Maybe you should ask him?
@@wisenber if it was moved, then there should be satellite pictures of an empty airfield
I tend to agree. Russia would certainly have the capacity to hit it again. Maybe this was a warning demonstration?
Serbian soldier sniper who fight on Russian side (since 2014) told that they first use "bait missiles" and few drones (from different angles and directions) to activate and locate essential modules..then they use one Kinzhal to hit most active module
Deki? lmao
Exactly
How'd he know that ?
Между тем, акции Raytheon, как сообщается, резко упали на новостях об ужасных характеристиках Patriot
Haven't watched your other hypersonic videos yet, that's next, but subsequent to this event a commercial sat image was released showing two enormous impact points at the airport.
A Western journalist asked to take pictures of the supposed unscathed Patriot battery even just up close as not to reveal where exactly it is or at least be allowed to show up without recording equipment just to confirm they are safe and was promptly denied. lol
thx
You forgot the Patriot's missile cost, 5 millions $ each !
Pocket change in relation to puncturing putins fans self inflated egos
The cost of an air defence missile is irrelevant compared to anything other than the value of the objects and people it protects.
@@SonsOfLorgar i dont think its irrelevant especially in this case wher logistic alone is a nightmare and ressources can be used somewhere on the front
@@cedriceric9730 you’re projecting
@@Vulcain-we5tw ehh... no.
A $5million missile or a hospital full of people? Or an airport? Or the water or sewage treatment plant of a whole city?
Hell yes, spending $5m or $25m to save either of those targets is money well spent.
No analysis of this event should fail to mention two critical details. 1. The huge asymmetry involved and, 2. the inherent vulnerability of the Patriot system.
Asymmetry. The Patriot system is hideously expensive. Ukraine launched $100 million worth of Patriot missiles in one go, with no corresponding benefit.
Vulnerability. The Patriot system can be taken out of action by damaging 1. Its command and control vehicle; 2. Its radar vehicle. 3 Its power supply vehicle. 4. Its antenna mast assembly. Disable any one of those and all the Patriot missiles in their launchers are useless.
So, if a Kinzhal missile struck anywhere near the operational centre of the grouping, it’s a virtual certainty that the entire battery was disabled - even if no Patriot launcher was hit.
Benefit: dick punching the Bunker Tsar and his entire military industrial complex.
Vulnerability: true about literally any system
During the first Gulf War I saw news footage of a patriot going up then doing a u turn back to the ground. No news highlighted this issue. 😂
who knew the patriot had a full auto option
(I believe naval anti-air combat systems had full auto mode in 1980's w-Ticonderoga / Aegis)
Excellent.
The most logical assumption is multilayter AD so NASAMS or IRIS-T and gun systems for the drones. I enjoy your insights and your mouthy robovac! I do think there was a LOT of data collected on the Kinzhal via AWACS and other intelligence gathering platforms, so we might also be seeing a high value test of those strategies which is partially what you said. Again, thanks.
Actually, it supports the USST/Russia air defence strategy. It is S300/350/400 for a long range, Buk-m2/3 for medium range, Tor-m2 for medium to short range (only misiles) and Pantsirs for short range - 12 misiles + autocannons.
@@Romoro86 No one can fault the Russian AD structure. That's why F22 and F35 were developed. It's also why SEAD/DEAD doctrine was developed to counter a competent AD system.
Excellent vid, thanks for the work putting this together. Zee internets needs more critical examination without political bias.
Not on western plantforms pal. It's either like in this vid "oh we don't know, it could be this, it could be that". Or it's banned.
No air defense was working on the next day drone strike on Kiev. So patriot is clearly gone
@@petunized You were there? Or are you just being spoon-fed propaganda yourself?
@@HTV-2_Hypersonic_Glide_Vehicle "Spoon fed with propaganda" is what happens to you, when you are on western platforms. Including youtube in general and this channel in particular.
@@petunized Your response to my question is very telling. You didn't answer my question, and then accused me of being spoon-fed without any real examination from your claim. It's okay for you to blindly accept something you are told, but not okay for me to be told that either situation could be possible? Sounds like you don't really know what propaganda is. Anything that goes against your feelings, like this case, must be propaganda, because the reality is something you'd rather have cognitive dissonance over.
@@petunized If an analysis from this user says that "there is no real way to know, since there is no evidence on either side" and you automatically jump to the idea that it is propaganda because you can't believe that anything could intercept RUSSIA'S INVINCIBLE MISSILE!!!, then you are the one that needs a reevaluation on how to tell whether something is propaganda or not. Because right now, you yourself sound like a propagandist deflecting to "Western platform is propaganda". Make a fool of yourself elsewhere.
🔴 I was wondering which Patriot - Kinzhal video to watch.. and then you posted.
Settled.
a very good video. i would like to point out tho that only 3 mig31's were launched for this attack, meaning they could only have launched a maximum of 3 khinzals. its also worth noting that the next day attacks were carried out by shaheed drones in the following days, with no footage of a patriot battery firing at them. ukraine makes it illegal to distribute footage of interceptions, but its still a little suspicious.
im curious about your opinion about how rapid the launches were, im not an air defense expert by any means, but some comentators on the topic said that the battery is not really designed to fire that rapidly and it seemed that the controllers may have panicked and dumped all the missiles at the threat.
"i would like to point out tho that only 3 mig31's were launched for this attack"
And one of them was on air to air duty just in case Ukraine tried something with their remaining aircraft.
Ukraine let's civilians post footage only if it is good for them , negative footage gets them thrown in jail
Also remember that does 20 second clips are only clips taken out of a larger battle
Imagine a boxing match where they cut out 20 second clips of only one guy landing punches and removing all the clips where he got hit by punches
"i would like to point out tho that only 3 mig31's were launched for this attack"
How do you think you know that?
@@Jester-uh9xg Because Ukraine sends out air raid alerts to their troops whenever Russian planes take off
Ukraine military knows whats coming, what bases they are taking off from etc...
@@Jester-uh9xg It is doubtful that they are all going to carry khinzals, one MIG-31 most likely is carry a full AA loadout with 6 R-37's and is serving as a escort
The Khinzal is so heavy that a MIG-31 can't carry anything else while flying
So actual numbers of Khinzal fired is 2, Shoigu even stated 2 and the video footage taken by civilians in Kiev show 2 hits, the satellite photos are also out and they show 2 craters on the airfield where the patriot used to be placed
M7 I appreciate you, I've learned a lot of things watching your channel...
Knowledge is power.... Keep the videos coming brother....
Thank you kindly!!!
GOD, FAMILY, COUNTRY
Would kinhzal not be the ideal to damage patriot missiles? If so, then it plays to the strengths of both so you'd expect some hits just by luck? Put enough metal in the air and you will hit something? Given the new nature of hypersonic missiles, I guess both sides are learning how to deploy and defend against them?
Kinzhal is just a primitive ballistic missiles. An Iskander put on a plane. Theres nothing new about that weapon.
If you wanna be hyperbolic, then a german V2 missile was also a hypersonic weapon, because just like Kinzhal/Iskander, it gets hypersonic at the highest point. But its gonna be way slower when its actually closing onto the target.
The new type of hypersonic weapon is agile reentry vehicles or ramjet driven hypersonic cruise missiles. Completely different tech, and none is yet in service anywhere.
kinhzal is just a normal ballistic missile that just happens to be air launched
@@termitreter6545 You don't know much about Kinhzal missile, do you?
@@user-py9cy1sy9u 😂
@@termitreter6545 😂
Undeniable fact is the Patriot battery took a hit after firing 30+ missiles in auto mode. Fact is the Patriot performed woefully in the Gulf War and a massive fail when used by 🇸🇦 to defend against Yemeni rebel short range (🇮🇷 tech) ballistic missiles.
Counterpoint: I tend to believe that US learnt from their mistakes in Gulf War and probably modified their equipment, but that's up to debate.
@@sewagridmnds627 no need to learn when you get orders anyway
It is also undeniable that the Patriot is extremely advanced and better than anything Russia has to offer
They are not using the same tipe of misiles than in the golf war , PAC 3 are cinetics interceptors.
OP thinks that the Patriot hasn’t been upgraded in 30 years 😅
U have to consider a patriot batteries launchers can be up to 20 miles apart. This means ur not gonna destroy a whole system with one missile. Or even 2.(if properly employed)
30 miles apart as far as i know.
@@meatrealwishes even better! The mindlessness of some people when assessing military tech is maddening lol. It causes them to take Russian propaganda at face value. Shit, ALL military claims for that matter.
That's what I thought myself.
Millennium, do you know that the Kinzhal is perhaps twice as fast as the Iskander?
russian propaganda says?
When I see notification of this channel on any weapons, I know I will be getting an honest review. As always, a great review sir!
Could be both statements (ukr & ru) maybe correct. The kinzhals were destroyed but only upon impact on it's targets.😉
You were there? Or are you just accepting what could be propaganda?😉
@@HTV-2_Hypersonic_Glide_Vehicle kindly find the operative words😉
@@mahyadnaadlaw3112 "The kinzhals were destroyed but only upon impact on it's targets"
These words that claim that the kinzhals hit their targets? Even though there is no proof for this?😉
The missiles 2 days later where also all intercepted again. That would not have been possible if the patriot was destroyed.
@@HTV-2_Hypersonic_Glide_Vehicle there are premises. Can't blame anyone for selective reading & comprehension. It's just a matter of degree of biases.
Didn't Putin accuse his rocket scientists of treason after his missiles failed? That's all you need to know.
No, he didn't, please watch my short on the subject.
@@Millennium7HistoryTech
ua-cam.com/users/shortsI7EXGOTJ7UA?feature=share3
both sides also agreed that ukraine used 30 missiles to prevent chain reaction and more explosions... so what was destroyed or not ukraine did lost 30 missiles that night
the patriot system dumped all it's rockets as it knew i was being targeted and didnt want the explosion to be bigger then it would be holding 20 or so rockets it was good use of 500 million dollars lol
" it was good use of 500 million dollars lol"
Versus how much for the Kinzhals?
The entire stock for a battery which is dozens and dozens of soldiers spread out over a large area, are kept in one pile and if we are targeted, we will purposely waste them to reduce secondary explosions. lmfao
Great video sir, best impartial commentary,keep making more.❤
I thought that this was a serious expert until I heard that 2 Dagger missiles could not destroy Patriot launchers located in different places of the same airfield. The dagger missile has a high-explosive fragmentation warhead weighing 500 kg. The speed of the rocket is 10 M. A blow at this speed releases kinetic energy in 1929015432.1 Joules or 418.3 kg in TNT equivalent. In total, almost a ton of explosives with gigantic force scatters thousands of striking elements stuffed in the warhead. these elements penetrate through easily armored vehicles. Therefore, in the technical characteristics of the Dagger Missile, the radius of destruction is indicated - 15000-20000 m2 in an open area, such as an airfield. That is, one rocket destroys everything on an area equal to 2 football fields.
Patriot is a complex of 5 or more separate installations. One radar, one for launchers, etc. They can be spaced apart more than you might suspect. No way to destroy them all with one or even 2 missiles
@@societyreborn33 You did not understand. 2 football fields is the area affected by the blast wave. The striking elements scatter for kilometers. moreover, the mass of the striking element and the initial speed are similar to the bullet of a heavy machine gun. the video shows the points from where the Patriot missiles fly. The distance between the launchers that fired dozens of missiles does not exceed 500 meters.
@@societyreborn33 Launchers are not deployed randomly, but on the basis of an approved charter. There painted the order of placement, the distance between the launchers, as well as the location of the command post. It can be either a linear order of battle, or a group. The group order of battle is determined for important objects. Like an airport. The number of installations per area is increasing. At the same time, the depth of cover increases and the fire effect increases.
I hope Rhoomba is paying you for promotion. My wife only noticed the bot and said why don't we get a room a.
Thanks sir.
I don't know what to say...
Cannot stress enough how much I love this channel and its ability to be factual. Well done guys
the Kinzhal won so obviously, when the patriots are launching all 32 missiles in a span of 30 seconds, you know theyre going to hit nothing, especially when you see a big red fireball right where the rockets were launching🤣
I understand the sentiment behind trying to find truth in the middle, but unfortunately that reasonable approach is increasingly being exploited to advance unreasonable ends. Russia pioneered this technique. It works like this. I can get you closer to believing my version of events by wildly overstating my success up to or even deliberately past the point where it would be plausible. In doing this I am implicitly acknowledging that whatever I have to say is unlikely to be seen as credible; that I have already burned my audience’s trust. Therefore, I wager, that I will have a better chance of influencing their opinions by throwing concerns about perceived credibility out the window. They aren’t going to believe me anyway. So instead of trying to convince them directly what I do is take it to the extremes. I make absurd claims counter to those of my opponents’ and only concern myself with ensuring my ridiculous claims are picked up by the media and presented alongside those of my opponents. Often times I am banking on those media organizations’ incentives driving them toward reporting anything that might drum up controversy. My absurd claims were practically born to do that. Once I’ve succeeded in getting my controversial claim into the discussion, I’ve succeeded in my mission. I’ve salted the narrative with the implication that there is indeed a controversy to be had in the first place. In doing so I have created cognitive dissonance between two opposing ideas and a conflict between two third parties for you to resolve. I’ve put you, in a way, into the position of mediator. In doing so I’m banking on your natural reaction to being thrown into such a conflict. And that is to diffuse the situation so that you don’t have to get directly involved. Even if you end up siding 98% with my opponent (UA/ US in this case) that still means you conceded to me the other 2%. That’s 2% I would’ve never otherwise gotten you to concede had I relied on my credibility (to lack thereof) alone. That also means I eroded 2% from my opponent’s credibility. That’s 2% more doubt I can now use as leverage next time I want to use this tactic. As an added bonus I may have convinced you to be skeptical of some of my opponent’s assertions and introduced doubt where there was none before. If I can’t get you to believe me I at least want to make you less likely to believe them. The more I can muddy the waters the less likely I make it so that you’ll be inclined to engage. My goal is to neutralize you, not win you over to my side.
That sounds more like what the Ukranians have done than the Russians. Russians have been generally quiet while ukraine has made claims such as:
The martyrs of Snake island who turned up alive.
Ghost of Kyiv
The missile the landed in poland that ukraine claimed was Russian along after the west forgiven them for the accidental ukranian s300 misfire.
Ukraine claims to have captured more tanks then they started with, yet begs for tanks constantly.
More recently ukraine claimed to have shot down 29/30 missiles fired their way, yet hours later complian that they currently have huge blackouts due to these missiles.
Insisting that Russian where shelling their own positions at Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant.
I very much appreciate your adult response. It is infuriating to be told those things which are assumed to be captivating. They are not.
5 mil s rocket. If i was the russian. Send decoys every day. 5 times a day. 😂
That's exactly what we do ;)
Those missiles aint cheap either.
@@MaxHohenstaufen The decoys are not that expansiv
@@bato2699 It takes a real missile to take the decoy to the area, otherwise it won't make the enemy think it's a real threat, and it won't be a decoy.
@@bato2699 A decoy that acts like a real missile is basically a real missile without warhead. Might as well give it a warhead.
Great video. I did wish you had explained why IRIST was not involved. My imagination was that could have been engaging the slower cruise missiles. I heard the systems exchange track data. +1 for explaining the battery placement with respect to expected direction of incoming hostiles.
IRIS-T can be integrated into basically any western air defence networks
what’s your opinion on the ‘proof’ UA MoD released about downing a Kinzhal? The picture with Klitchko
Thats Betab-500. Not Khinzhal. Picture is hilarious. Khinzhal is 7m long.
@@johntom23 good thing impacts at high velocities have 0 effect on physical appearance
wel...this video was kinda underwelming.
earlier in the video you've mentioned that S-300 also might have been involved, but judging from what i saw in a video ( of missiles being lounched ) that seems unlikely since S-300 would have a very different trajectory.
patriots are lounched by shooting them directly out of the lounch tube ( with burning engine )....while S-300 would first be ejected out of the tube AND ONLY THEN ( while missile is in the air ) engine would start burnng ( creating a huge explosion with a lot of smoke ) and we would deffinetly be able to tell those 2 missile lounchs appart .
also ,you could gave us some oppinions about probabilities .
1) how likely it would be for a kinzhal to sucsessefully kill patriot ( basing on what we know about them ).
and
2) how likely would it be for patriot to shoot down kinzhal.
we don't know huge deal about them...but some interesting facts are out there.
for example kinzhal max speed is 9-10 mach...while patriot SM3 ( wich is the missile fired by ukrainians - we know that because 16 missiles fit on a single TEL truck ) is 4-4.5 mach....wich kinda give you a hint about likelyhood of shooting it down .
also we know that SM3 missiles DON'T HAVE EXPLOSIVE WARHEAD....and therefore to shoot down their target they have to PHYSICALLY SMASH INTO IT .
in my mind .. CRUSHING PHYSICALLY INTO HIPERSONIC OBJECT that is also twice faster than the missile that is itrying to shoot it down....likelyhood of that happening is ..kinda pretty low
Russians just shown the entire world who's the boss.
A single demonstration is enough.
From what I can gather from multiple different sources (Some Open Sourse some still in the US Military Service) one of the missiles that was targeted at the Patriot Missile Sites wasn't a clean kill and landed near some of the site equipment. Yes the site was damaged due to the near hit (or miss depending or how you want to see it) but after a few hours it was brought back on-line. As far as casualties I was unable to gather that information.
You need to take radar out
@@oldfashionedwrx3574 Either the Radar or one of the Controller Stations.
I wonder why Ukraine just doesnt share footage of the actual strike to disperse all the drama. Clearly, there must have been cameras at the strike zone to record the moment of impact like in any other place of such value. I mean these systems must have security cameras to protect them from sabotage or what have you. Yet they share nothing but words when we in fact saw something get hit.
@@alispeed5095there was no footage,period,conspiracy ?no,making a mole out of hot air!rather trust the capability of the patriot than the missing camera man who obviously couldn’t give f…why blamed him for the missing video,absolutely ridiculous argument!!!
@@alispeed5095 opsec
We call dospell all doubts
A another missile strike or a live tour of the patriot system.
I do think RUS only want to check how PAC-3 works and how well UKR trained also develop tactic
Seems like forward deploying Patriot to provide a shield over units staging to attack would ensure it's being targeted. As I understand it, each Patriot radar unit is limited to observing a 120 degree arc. so forward deploying it without supporting batteries means it become even more vulnerable. The idea that the US MIC would be willing to sacrifice Patriot to "lure" the Russians into attacking it and wasting its weapons, seems to assume the US willingness to accept reputational damage - something we have never seen evidence of. This also ignores the fact that for every $10 the Pentagon spends on weapons the Russians spend $1. In a money war of attrition, the Russians will win.
The only reason we know anything at all is because of Ukrainian Civilians and who posted film and then were promptly arrested. The females will likely rot in prison and the males are probably already off to the front. To me that offers more important insights into what is happening inside Ukraine than anything else.
>This also ignores the fact that for every $10 the Pentagon spends on weapons the Russians spend $1. In a money war of attrition, the Russians will win.The only reason we know anything at all is because of Ukrainian Civilians and who posted film and then were promptly arrested. The females will likely rot in prison and the males are probably already off to the front.
What? As Kyiv citizen, I laughing at your delusions
Even if that would be the case, Russia spends 84bn $, while US spends 877bn $.
And unless you're delusional you see that the US military is far superior.
One problem with your analysis being that USA has way more momey
Russia's GDP is a fart in the wind lol.
The idiot filmed the location of a patriot system.
That is the easiest way to get arrested for espionage.
Are you guys really this dumb?
You can't let people go around and film sensitive information about Ukrainian military positions.
If that was allowed than Ukraine wouldn't have any air defense left.
We know of a pro Russia youtuber who did this for Russian collaborators and got caught.
He was allowed to leave Ukraine and never return.
When he returned they put him in jail.
Not the sharpest knife in the box.
Why would they send the males to the front lines when they have no training?
I am pretty sure that this is a war crime and Russia looked really bad for doing the same thing.
You are talking about Ukraine.
Ukraine has almost a million soldiers with basic training.
For some reason you missed the pictures of the first destroyed Kinzhal and part of the others.
The kinzhal is much bigger than that😂😂
@@somebody700 I do not know what pictures are you looking at, but the ones that I saw are pretty much the same thing.
Sure dude. The Moskva did not sink either, there is no war, it took three days to take over Ukraine, there are biological labs, Nazis, locust, and aliens in Ukraine.
" It is really easy to look. "
am pretty sure it is the video and pic from mayor of kyev :)
@@diawannoto He took them from the bridge of the Moskva that stormy day.
You got it wrong ..actually 18 cruise and shahed drones and 2 kinzals attacked ..they caused the 2 patriot batterys to fire 30-32 missiles ..then the 2 kinzals hit the 2 patriot radar control trucks and remaining cruise missles struck some other patriot launch trucks
Do you really belive that bullshit?
Citation needed
@@sababugs1125 citation is a chevy car from the 1980ies
This is what happened, I have info from the future......they launched all those missiles at the same time due to the location and placements close to residential areas.
They launched all of them due to the dagger coming to blow them to smithereens and that would have cause a massive explosion.
Well...after having deliberately placed the complete battery close to the inhabited area according to old Ukrainian custom.
@@matarr222 Strangely I was just on telegram, and there was a picture of the polish patriot systems and their placement whilst in service, it seems like it's not a Ukrainian thing, rather a command proximity arrangement to the system.
This is what happens when your military doctrine affects your design principle, (assuming you will always have air superiority creates a big flaw in the system)
I see u are trying to be in the middle ground! But 30 missile launch to the air by Patriot system and big boom on Ukraine side! But reported slightly damage! Obviously the Ukrainian lied!
And Russia isn't flying over Kiev. Russia lied.
There was one more interesting event - 4 Russian aircrafts where downed within several minutes in Bryansk oblast 50 km from border with Ukraine - two Mi-8 helicopters, Su-34 and Su-35. Could be a great video too, lots of materials available
They were shot down by patriots.
It is interesting, but I don't think it was a SAM system from Ukraine. It is just too far not to be identified and evaded. It is probably a bad day of the endemic Russian problem: GBAD friendly fire. Estimates vary but between a third and a half of Russian losses are due to their own GBADs. Awful.
@@Millennium7HistoryTech
Personally I consider friendly fire in this case as quite unlikely. Hee is why:
1. According to Russian sources both helicopters were Mi-8 MTPR which is a electronic warfare modification. That also explains why they were flying quite high, above 1000 meters. And in that case they were present in that area for some time and must have been clearly identified
2. Also Russians state that all four aircrafts were on the same mission - launching a bomb with a gliding unit to the Chernigivskya oblast of Ukraine. Su-34 was the carrier of the bomb at 6000 meters, Su-35 was protecting him against possible Ukrainian fighters at 8000 meters. The helicopters were supposed to jam the Ukrainian radars if any discovered. Actually those bombs were already used in that area multiple times.
The height of the planes makes the use of MPADs impossible, also none of the crew was alive which is a sing of a bug warhead. There is a video of the missile hearing one of the helicopters and it was destructed in the air.
Actually Ukrainians gave two systems that allow hitting targets having a launcher on their own territory - Patriot and SAMP-T. So they could perform an operation of secretly moving a single launcher with a radar to some place near the border and quickly withdraw them back after that.
@@Millennium7HistoryTech Some "officials" said it was the other Patriot battery, the german PAC-2, that was moved close to the border for a few hours, took care of that russian strike package and then moved back to safety.
@@Millennium7HistoryTech If that os true, Russia will beat Russia sooner than later
thank you for not reintroducing the system stats.
Good point about missle debris can be destructive. Just by following the regular updates by Ukrain show how lethal this actually is.
'Last week, air defenses fended off a 20-missile barrage that still killed five people after falling debris hit a high-rise building and started a fire' (New York Times July 2, 2023)
or two people killed in Poland by Ukrainian air defense (wtf made them go this direction so far?!)
The story about a destroyed NATO bunker turned out to be fake news.
-There are reports of Russian missles successfully destroying a military HQ bunker (it was said NATO advisors were inside) in Kyiv. So passive defenses might not be the best choice to protect foreign advisors. And the last thing Ukraine wants is high value people from supporting countries are killed.-
@@dingle2844 Thanks for questioning this part of my comment. I checked for there are details about this NATO bunker bombing but beside of few reports no valid source seem to exist.
I have changed my comment accordingly.
Patriot can not intercept Kinzhal. Patriot interceptor is not fast enough.
It can’t catch up to the Kinzhal. It could theoretically intercept it by going at it head on, but actually destroying it would require a direct hit and the patriot radar couldn’t get that until it was way too late.
@@nihluxler1890 you sure?
@@nihluxler1890 Consider the fact Patriot has already intercepted ballistic missles moving beyond those speeds. And the fact Kinzhal is an air launched ballistic missle.
Kinzhal is less advanced than the Chinese DF-ZF and US LRHW, which are true hypersonic glide vehicles. As the video mentions ballistic missles have predictable flight patterns. Therefore the Patriot just needs to meet up with the faster target, along it's predicted flight path. Rather than fly equal to or faster than the target.
In the following days, the Russians continued their missile strikes across the battlespace. They gained considerable intel from this initial attack on Patriot. It's impossible to know how much damage was done at the AD location. These layered AD positions can cover one sq km. But for sure the game was changed and Russians are likely pleased with their efforts. (Patriots are expensive and S300 inventory gets another hit)
"These layered AD positions can cover one sq km. "
More like up to 70 sq km.
" They gained considerable intel from this initial attack on Patriot."
Which became obsolete once they were moved.
"(Patriots are expensive and S300 inventory gets another hit)"
How relatively expensive is a Patriot compared to a Kinzhal considering the size of the wallets funding them?
Russia is like Randy Marsh "I didn't hear no bell!". You can beat them to a bloody pulp and the fanboys will say their face gained precious intelligence on the hardness of the knuckles.
@@wisenber Read up on how much area a complete patriot battery covers.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD Russia grinds away. Slowly. Inexorably. An unstoppable force. Disarming takes time. No rush.
@@marcgatto9675 No rush? They've been rushing everything since the start. They just run like they had polio.
Disarming? Themselves? T-55s being pulled from storage, while allies debate giving Ukraine F-16s.