It’s hard to imagine that a $50 curtain would make a noticeable difference in a room that had thousands of dollars worth of sound treatment already. Seems that a more reasonable test would be to hang them up in a ‘normal’ room and compare the measurements. Interesting idea though.
Density is a factor. If the curtains are stretched across the window so that they have shallow undulations, I can understand how they wouldn't do much in the way of sound absorption. But if you added a second pair to each window, the undulations would be steeper and the surface area would be increased which would certainly increase their effectiveness . They may even look more sculptural bunched closer together.
I use vertical louvers that allow just whatever amount of light I want -you can buy them extra thick, in a cork surface, tend to be cat proof (they destroy curtains as a climbing challenge) and do deflect sound.
Pro tip: do not cut the curtains if they are too long. Get the seamstress /taylor to fold pleats at the bottom. The extra weight down low helps keep the curtains from blowing when there is a breeze.
Great video. Not surprised with this result. I'm currently in the process of building acoustic panels and one of the properties of the cloth going on the outside of the absorber that is important is that it's breathable / light can get through. As soon as you said light could get through I was thinking "it will be surprising if this works at all". The only curtains that I would imagine contribute to acoustics of the room would be the THICK acoustic curtains that literally have an extra layer of felt INSIDE the fabric. And even then I can't imagine it doing much below 1 khz? and at that point.... you might as well get a real acoustic panel and just have it on wheels or something and slide it in front of the window when you want to, since these thick curtains probably won't look that great anyways. Internet dummy here - not an acoustician or sound engineer, etc.
Oh yes, curtains. When I did mine (but I wanted to have dark room, it was not planned to be accoustic treatment - maybe as a side effect) I noticed a big difference in dialog in movies. And I am not an audiophile. I have a cheap mini stereo system. But the difference is so big.
Thanks for the review! I was considering buying these curtains based on the product description. I play music in my office and my office neighbors sometime complain that the sound bleeds through into their office. Now, I know it would be a waste of money. Oh well...
As a studio designer , audio engineer and acoustician, curtains and carpets make pretty much zero difference until you buy specific acoustic curtains with a substantial NRC.
Hi, I have measured and done research on materials in an acoustics laboratory. We also perform ISO354 measurements. Curtains do not ISOLATE sound, they are simply not heavy enough. You would need curtains that have a surface weight of 20kg/m² to have a bit of isolation. Curtains that heavy cannot function as curtains. In terms of absorption, they can work. But I think you forgot to mention this, the IKEA product description mentions that the curtains should be placed 10-15 cm off the wall for optimum performance. The curtains should also be draped so that there are folds (so not entirely open). These are typically also the recommendations that acousticians give. Even though I didn't find any measurement data (of ISO354), it's likely that the way you hung and opened the curtains did not deliver the highest sound absorption possible. Again, no sound absorption coefficient so I cannot say if this would make a difference. Another aspect is surface area. The surface area of the curtains in your room, and any typical room, is rather small. The larger the surface area of a material, the more if affects the sound field in a room. My guess is that the sound absorption coefficient of these curtains is quite low (expert speak: it looks like the flow resistivity is too low for that) even with optimal placement.
They could probably dampen noticeably if the room was empty hehe, but when a room is fully furnished and decorated a thin piece of fabric won`t make any difference, not that I`ve done measurements, but I`ve been in empty rooms where there were curtains in place and after getting a couch, a carpet (covering maybe 1/5th of the floor) as well as a desk, THAT makes a huge difference (: not too many people bring a bag and their sound system when moving into a new place, but those were the circumstances at the time hehe..
What about prior to any curtains at all, because close or open they still provide a dampening factor despite the window reverberation. Same with the flat closed vs rippled, sometimes it’s not just about absorption but dispersion. Anyways I think they look good in your new sanctuary!
If you're comparing measurements of FR and RT60 with the curtains open and closed, keep in mind that for both measurements the curtains are still in the room. I think a better basis for comparison would be to completely remove the curtains from the room and start with that measurement. (It'll still probably be negligible... )
Couple of things: RT60 tends to be very inaccurate on the bass frequencies. You should take several measurements to see how much fluctuarion there is. I think that the difference in RT60 curtains open and closed was just measurement uncertainty. For higher frequencies you could also take a look on impulse response whether there would be reduction of reflection spikes coming from the side walls. Also worth pointing out that the curtains will have impact on the RT60 regardless being open or closed. And to extend the impact more towards lower treble and upper mids, you should have so much curtains that they are folded even when pulled in front of the windows.
Oh John your not finished yet you have to investigate “Large Pot Plants” used as bass traps and sound diffusers to add to your “April” Greening The Listening Room series - since you’ve done curtains and blown your chance on that.
John, another significantly sized reflective surface is your LED screen behind you. I wonder if you hung a thick fleecy fabric over the screen, would you hear (and measure) less reverb in your room? Really enjoy your videos, including all the ones on room treatments.
Those are way too thin to make any real impact IMHO. For what its worth, you don't have to close the curtains to gain the sound absorption. I have a set from another manufacturer on my sliding door to the patio and they are full light blocking (3 layers, with heavy felt in the middle). They typically remain open and pushed/bunched to the sides out of the way as more of a window dressing. Because they are on my door, they stand out from the wall about 3" and provide an extra air-gap. They still work just fine removing much of my room's reverb and it is really all about the mass they provide. Yes, perhaps they'd work slightly better spread out across the entire door, but not as much as you would think.
Have you repeated the test more than once? Cause with REW and an UMIC-1 Mic I get slightly different RT60 every time I measure, even if nothing changes in the room, even repeating the test immediately after...so the differences you see might not even be "real". Especially in the 100Hz, I don't think a curtain can do something in that low area.
They work to block out the sound of plates clinking, and they help block the sound of my neighbors having conversations outside of my big picture windows while my birds are trying to sleep. So I’m happy with them.
Many viewers rely on you to accurately guide them toward an improvement in their quality of life. I'm glad you are calling attention to the utility of readily obtainable decor products to help achieve that end. Your comments, E. G. 7:35, present concerning information inconsistencies from the IKEA link you provide. Some viewers might not be familiar with drape sizing and fitting conventions. Your presentation does little to change that. Mentioning briefly the services of a skilled fabric craft person is hardly adequate for the uninitiated, but a good beginning for many of us. Thank you for your well intended efforts. Hopefully your presentation will stimulate viewers to welcome alternative means to improve their audio environment, decor, and experience. Thanks for all your contributions. Wish you the best for the future.
It would be interesting to see the variation between multiple measurements (frequency response and RT60) at the listening position for a given listening configuration (e.g., curtains open). To account for the uncertainty in individual measurements, it might be worth averaging multiple measurements at the listening position for a given listening configuration and then comparing that to an averaged set of measurements for a different listening configuration.
I've seen a few comments like this. Yes, the material is still in the room when the curtains are open. But the larger point is that whenn the curtains are open, the windows are exposed to sound. And windows are potentially refelective surfaces like a wall, the ceiling or the floor. The idea behind sound absorbing curtains is that by covering up those reflective surfaces you can (but not always) reduce the reverb.
Since moving the "well, actually" crowd seems to have infested the comments. Pretty sad when John's entire vibe is gentle expert commentary that you can take or leave as you like.
One day son all this will be yours. What the curtains? Doesn't everyone know adding soft furnishings helps absorb reflections? But in this case John I would suggest those curtains are too thin and only cover a small area if your total room dimensions to make any audiable difference. Pull yourself together man.
To be honest, virtually any piece of fabric will have SOME sound dampening properties.. but thin curtains will probably do nothing, UNLESS, you have no carpets, very few things on the wall, et cetera. But I`ve lived a couple of places where laying down a carpet and putting up curtains made my entire existence livable hehe, bunch of hard surfaces all over means echo-palooza, so yeah, but not in a normal living space with furniture and carpets and decoration I would think. Wait, did you just say stitches in your EYE? :o
I would think the difference in measurement is down to the margin of error, not actual changes caused by the curtains. The difference is simply too small to say anything conclusive other then "the difference is negligible"
It’s all about mass. Those are thin and light. I’ve got double lined heavy blackout curtains covering 50% of my walls. Probably ~20-25 lbs of material. It’s helped a noticeable amount. Clap test, fans are quieter. How much? Maybe 3-5db in the high end. Who knows, maybe some cleaver engineering could do more with less but I doubt there’s a substantial way to reduce sound without mass or power. Something’s gotta give.
"It's curtains for this channel" Oh no thought I, what could be wrong......?? Great review, funny almost as quite possibly the least likely product to expect you to cover. Good conclusions though, as the curtains work well visually, which is nice, yet fail on other claims. Well done John, I hope the stitches have come out well and we will see what you can conjure up for us next. Mugs perhaps? Audiophile Cheeses? We await your pleasure.
You should have measured it with the curtains closed and without them at all. if you don't even put it on, the difference would definitely be bigger, since it absorbs the sound even in the open position. Great video anyway!
Hi John, if you’re up for some experimentation, you might consider adding a second pair to each window. When closed, they will hang fuller and have a more uneven surface. More like they look now when open. Could be a shot in the dark, but I have a feeling it might help. Good luck. Love your channel - Kelly
Great. Love, love, love your attitude and style towards what you do. These curtains was a bit audiophile graded, but now you focus on the audiophile plants. They do more then thin IKEAs. Hold on, you might buy plants at IKEA!! What are you going to do? Berliner IKEA plants? Achtung!
I want my listening room to look like the Black Lodge from Twin Peaks. Curtains everywhere! I have a lot of windows in my office, even along the wall behind my speakers. My thick curtains make a huge difference. And I love that they block out all the light as a bonus. I can't think of a solution for removing window sound reflections while still letting in the light.
Frankly I would have been surprised if a lightweight, semi-opaque bit of cloth made much difference. Speaker grills, which are intended to be acoustically transparent, come to mind.
One reason why I love my headphones, of which I have quite a few, is that I can listen to music without these concerns. I first got really into headphones when I lived in a flat in London in the 90s. I didn't want to disturb my neighbours with music so headphones were a great option. Anyway I now live in a detached house in Brighton but I still listen to music with headphones primarily, I'm into the way of it. I don't want to have to make changes to the rooms in my house, I like the way they are. With really good headphones the sound quality is truly stunning, way ahead of what can be achieved for the same price with speakers. I do know that John has made these points at various times himself. I do think that a lot of audiophiles might like to have a look at the excellence of good quality of headphones, if you haven't tried them you might be surprised at just what can be achieved. I do think that this is an interesting video anyway, I do like that John addresses broader issues of audio rather than just reviewing components all the time.
Darko, You don't need to make a whole video about Ikea curtains. It's simple, if they let light through then they will let sound through. You need heavy curtains (with multiple layers of high density fabric sandwiched) like the ones they have in theatres, even there they have two sets with a air gap between. These theatre curtains only stop mid range and hi frequency, for bass you need curtains made of concrete, lead, sand (inert materials).
Yeah, only the thick curtains will give the room a bit more of a 'warmer' sound. I'm roughly guessing that velvet curtains, with lining, would be the best. I suppose most people would assume that, but you have to either like the look of them, or put up with them if sound is your priority. :)
Don't forget that your Umik-1 has an accuracy of +-1 dB. For best results, do each measurement looped at least 3 times. If you did that, the difference would probably be smaller.
curtains open and closed probably isn't a big enough audible difference, but with or without curtains might be. Or prior to the Vicoustic treatments, I'm sure the curtains would be a noticeable difference. I'm sure you are at the point of diminishing returns. I'm glad you've optimized your listening area though and described the process and changes you have heard and measured. Thank you!
You had me laughing very hard at the first time, but again it's a very good made video in so many ways. I think you could even inform me about tax return thingymagic and I would be happy to watch it. And it's extremly nice to see you building from ground up and doing those measurements for the tech heads among your viewers.
You know John you could also Double up the curtains so when you want light...you use the center set l. And when it's say night time you can then use both for a more density. And you may...obtain more sound deadening for Night Music... They likely attunate the high and hence sharpness?
These are too light to notice any difference. Maybe it will help overall reverb time but not more than other furniture. I had contact with Hofa akustik (germany) They have specialized curtains but I did not go with it because it will mess up your room. It acts as a big sound blocker or insulator.
The reason it shows a negligible improvement at the higher frequencies is that the wavelength is much shorter and easier to absorb. Low frequency long wavelength as you know is much,much harder to absorb
To test them you need to put mic where the window glass is and than test with them open and closed. What you did will not show much, as even when they are open, they still absorb sound, maybe some frequencies even more as its still soft material in the room. What you did is not measure their absorption (what IKEA says its for) but just differences in room with them closed and opened. Glass as surface is not the worst for sound from physical properties. But I guess from listening stand point there will not be difference with/without them as its too low of impact compared to everything else you have going on there.
Thank you for this John! I was considering curtains as a kind of "room treatment" in the room where my other system is. I'm glad I've watched this video before I splashed 70 EUR on a pair of curtains (that's what they cost here at IKEA Serbia).
The title had me panicking!! The content had me laughing out loud!! BTW - have you had the chance to listen to the Bang and Olufsen H95 headphones? ....or the Bang and Olufsen EX? The H95s are really great, but I would like to hear how you feel about them in relation to the Sennheiser Momentum 4 and Momntum 3 TW and the Bathys. You have a perspective that is not easy to find - practical AND nuanced, which I greatly appreciate, so any thoughts would be helpful. You very rarely give definite responses and always leave room for us to make our own minds up - even when you've made your own up already - which I like. Love to get your thoughts. Good luck with the eye!! See you on the next one!!
I think these curtains, when using just a few (square meters) of them don't do a lot. But still the difference between closed and open is probably not the main thing. The fact that they are installed in the room might be the most significant difference. Open or closed...
No surprise, really. I mean, what can you expect from something as thin as a curtain fabric? The difference between closed and open also make sense. Open means a large area thinly covered, closed means a narrower but thicker column covering a narrow section of the wall. I've seen it recommended to leave curtains open for listening because most rooms are more reverberant at lower frequencies than in the high treble. 4kHz is around where you see the 60 degrees off axis start to drop off in typical 25-28 mm soft domes. I have pleated curtains made to measure and directly on the glass of each window. The frequency response looked the same quite high up, and even slightly more ragged at higher frequencies. Didn't do an RT60, though.
Easy: when something is hard to pronounce like "Gunnlaug" - simply let Jana D. do it for you. She probably wants a small fee. But we will enjoy the result for sure!
I'm not defending Ikea (What? The curtains?) but, as you say, they might have more effect in another room where the windows have more of an impact on the sound. Also, what if you added extra width so, when closed, there was still a lot of play in them. Finally, Ikea aren't probably interested in what we find measuring sound inside the room - most normal people are interested in how it behaves letting sound into the room so that test would involve putting a speaker outside the window to do a frequency sweep from out there, measuring the sound inside the room with the curtains open and closed.
I wouldn't have thought a relatively sheer curtain that allows light to pass would, at the same time, attenuate sound, and presume the efficacy of the curtains would depend in large part on the amount to which they're pleated when closed? If one had the funds, would slatted shutters be another option? They could be adjusted and, as slats, would reflect sound to varying degrees and in different directions, depending on their slant.
How about this, you can get white acoustic foam in a flat format and get sheets put into open backed frames and the hang them from the ceiling on nice hooks about 20cm from the window and have a gap of 10cm from each hung frame which will allow light in. Also because you would have the 20cm gap in-between the window and the panels you double the reduction with soundwaves front and back. And because they hang you choose if there in place or not. That would work far better for what your trying to achieve regarding the reduction of sound reflections regarding windows. Look at The Acoustics Company for the Melamine Foam.
Adequate application of volume. Or deep dive discussions about the merits of room correction and the science of psycho-acoustics will typically silence the lady present in the room.
Hi John, love your measurement videos. Are you in the room when you do them? I'm about as tall as you (2,01 meters 90kg) and wonder how much my body would affect the measurements.
I was wondering about the impact of different spectacle frames and how much their relative pressure from their different weights’ place on the earlobes. I presume, until the stitches are completely healed, a comparison video between contacts and spectacles is out of the question. At least until April 2024? I have also noticed that mid range improves slightly if I rest my chin on my hand, but only if my knees are crossed. Right hand as a slightly more damping effect on bass than my left, however.
I am actually asking, when I shopped for curtains they were rated for sound absorption but that rating was specific to the curtain hung with a significant amount of “bunching” I.e. there had to be quite a bit of redundant width so that the curtain was not flat when fully opened, is that how the ikea curtains are rated as well?
It would be more relevant for the most of us if the curtains were tested in an untreated room. They are not likely to make any difference in yours. You should test them upstairs instead.
I would say that it depends also on room size, what is the ratio of wall with windows vs other walls in consideration the room size. I hear the difference for sure in my place with curtains on or off. (I dont use ikea, but lets say normal standard curtains). I have non acoustically treated room and just standard living room furniture in it. (sofa, carpet, table, book case). I think it would have measurable improvement in standard rooms which are not professionally treated the way you have.
back to the drawing board John been there well ended up with double lined heavy curtains .lol mind you living in the North of Scotland probably good buy 😊
Nice have been following your guidance on acoustic treatment, it’s the best upgrade going, any chance you could review some super tweeters….. are they really good .. or just more hifi over kill ..
Hey John, thanks for testing these! I’m m curious if the following conditions from the Ikea product description were met: For effective sound absorbency, drape the curtain with folds, 9-15 cm from the wall. I have these personally and did rehang them at the specified distance and with the Ikea Riktig for pleating and do hear a small improvement in vocal intelligibility when they are closed over my 6’ wide, 8’ tall window
Yep. 12cm between window and curtain. Full pleats aren’t as easy if you’re using the curtains as per the 145cm width specification. If pleats are mandatory, then perhaps that 145cm of coverage should be listed as 75cm. 🤷♂️
Argghh! I fell for the click-bait headline! But at the same time Im relieved it was just that and that the channel is not closing down due to health issues, war or anything else. And I liked the content.
How many hours will they require to be fully burned-in ?
I’ve learned the term “click bait” the hard way. You gave me a scare.
😂ditto
There was curtains in the thumbnail 🤭
It’s hard to imagine that a $50 curtain would make a noticeable difference in a room that had thousands of dollars worth of sound treatment already. Seems that a more reasonable test would be to hang them up in a ‘normal’ room and compare the measurements. Interesting idea though.
Density is a factor. If the curtains are stretched across the window so that they have shallow undulations, I can understand how they wouldn't do much in the way of sound absorption. But if you added a second pair to each window, the undulations would be steeper and the surface area would be increased which would certainly increase their effectiveness . They may even look more sculptural bunched closer together.
It would be interesting to try them in an untreated room.
Most fascinating curtain video I've ever watched! Thanks John.😎☠️🏴☠️
I use vertical louvers that allow just whatever amount of light I want -you can buy them extra thick, in a cork surface, tend to be cat proof (they destroy curtains as a climbing challenge) and do deflect sound.
I guess the test would be no curtains vs curtains (open or closed). Since u might get a bigger difference. Which would make them useful (or not).
Pro tip: do not cut the curtains if they are too long. Get the seamstress /taylor to fold pleats at the bottom. The extra weight down low helps keep the curtains from blowing when there is a breeze.
Open & Closed curtains is not the same as With and Without curtains!
I guess it's only fair to IKEA to compare with no curtains at all. The main thing is they look nice and are affordable. I like them!
There are heavy insulating curtains you can buy. They will make a difference
Yes, low mass materials don't have much impact on sound. Those lightweight IKEA curtains were never going to do much. It's basic physics.
How about a curtain comparison review video?
Quickly watched this in a panic! Phew!
me too!
Great video. Not surprised with this result. I'm currently in the process of building acoustic panels and one of the properties of the cloth going on the outside of the absorber that is important is that it's breathable / light can get through. As soon as you said light could get through I was thinking "it will be surprising if this works at all". The only curtains that I would imagine contribute to acoustics of the room would be the THICK acoustic curtains that literally have an extra layer of felt INSIDE the fabric. And even then I can't imagine it doing much below 1 khz? and at that point.... you might as well get a real acoustic panel and just have it on wheels or something and slide it in front of the window when you want to, since these thick curtains probably won't look that great anyways.
Internet dummy here - not an acoustician or sound engineer, etc.
Oh yes, curtains. When I did mine (but I wanted to have dark room, it was not planned to be accoustic treatment - maybe as a side effect) I noticed a big difference in dialog in movies. And I am not an audiophile. I have a cheap mini stereo system. But the difference is so big.
But I have some really heavy curtains ;) Not the one mentioned in the movie.
Thanks for the review! I was considering buying these curtains based on the product description. I play music in my office and my office neighbors sometime complain that the sound bleeds through into their office. Now, I know it would be a waste of money. Oh well...
It was funny to watch a video about curtains on Friday night. Thank you for the fun.
As a studio designer , audio engineer and acoustician, curtains and carpets make pretty much zero difference until you buy specific acoustic curtains with a substantial NRC.
Hi, I have measured and done research on materials in an acoustics laboratory. We also perform ISO354 measurements. Curtains do not ISOLATE sound, they are simply not heavy enough. You would need curtains that have a surface weight of 20kg/m² to have a bit of isolation. Curtains that heavy cannot function as curtains. In terms of absorption, they can work. But I think you forgot to mention this, the IKEA product description mentions that the curtains should be placed 10-15 cm off the wall for optimum performance. The curtains should also be draped so that there are folds (so not entirely open). These are typically also the recommendations that acousticians give. Even though I didn't find any measurement data (of ISO354), it's likely that the way you hung and opened the curtains did not deliver the highest sound absorption possible. Again, no sound absorption coefficient so I cannot say if this would make a difference. Another aspect is surface area. The surface area of the curtains in your room, and any typical room, is rather small. The larger the surface area of a material, the more if affects the sound field in a room. My guess is that the sound absorption coefficient of these curtains is quite low (expert speak: it looks like the flow resistivity is too low for that) even with optimal placement.
They could probably dampen noticeably if the room was empty hehe, but when a room is fully furnished and decorated a thin piece of fabric won`t make any difference, not that I`ve done measurements, but I`ve been in empty rooms where there were curtains in place and after getting a couch, a carpet (covering maybe 1/5th of the floor) as well as a desk, THAT makes a huge difference (:
not too many people bring a bag and their sound system when moving into a new place, but those were the circumstances at the time hehe..
What about prior to any curtains at all, because close or open they still provide a dampening factor despite the window reverberation. Same with the flat closed vs rippled, sometimes it’s not just about absorption but dispersion. Anyways I think they look good in your new sanctuary!
Is it not too early for April 1st ? Hi John, thank you for all your great work to educate and entertain me. All best for you. Take care.
in an empty untreated room the difference would maybe be huge
If you're comparing measurements of FR and RT60 with the curtains open and closed, keep in mind that for both measurements the curtains are still in the room. I think a better basis for comparison would be to completely remove the curtains from the room and start with that measurement. (It'll still probably be negligible... )
John you should have save this for April Fools:)
Couple of things: RT60 tends to be very inaccurate on the bass frequencies. You should take several measurements to see how much fluctuarion there is. I think that the difference in RT60 curtains open and closed was just measurement uncertainty.
For higher frequencies you could also take a look on impulse response whether there would be reduction of reflection spikes coming from the side walls.
Also worth pointing out that the curtains will have impact on the RT60 regardless being open or closed. And to extend the impact more towards lower treble and upper mids, you should have so much curtains that they are folded even when pulled in front of the windows.
Oh John your not finished yet you have to investigate “Large Pot Plants” used as bass traps and sound diffusers to add to your “April” Greening The Listening Room series - since you’ve done curtains and blown your chance on that.
Are you trolling us with your 5yo discontinued MS tablet product placement? 😁
The curtains weren't a winner, but your title choice in naming this video, brilliant!
No big differens with them open or closed, but how was the measurement without any curtains at all?
John, another significantly sized reflective surface is your LED screen behind you. I wonder if you hung a thick fleecy fabric over the screen, would you hear (and measure) less reverb in your room? Really enjoy your videos, including all the ones on room treatments.
Those are way too thin to make any real impact IMHO. For what its worth, you don't have to close the curtains to gain the sound absorption. I have a set from another manufacturer on my sliding door to the patio and they are full light blocking (3 layers, with heavy felt in the middle). They typically remain open and pushed/bunched to the sides out of the way as more of a window dressing. Because they are on my door, they stand out from the wall about 3" and provide an extra air-gap.
They still work just fine removing much of my room's reverb and it is really all about the mass they provide. Yes, perhaps they'd work slightly better spread out across the entire door, but not as much as you would think.
Have you repeated the test more than once? Cause with REW and an UMIC-1 Mic I get slightly different RT60 every time I measure, even if nothing changes in the room, even repeating the test immediately after...so the differences you see might not even be "real". Especially in the 100Hz, I don't think a curtain can do something in that low area.
Doctor doctor, I think I'm a pair of audiophile curtains... Pull yourself together man!
I actually am too broke and I found that Shower Curtains on the Windows to be the cheapest solution. Once up nobody can tell the difference anyway.
Plastique chique :) anyways, better than cardboard!!
They work to block out the sound of plates clinking, and they help block the sound of my neighbors having conversations outside of my big picture windows while my birds are trying to sleep. So I’m happy with them.
What is the difference if you do the measurement with and without the curtains? Not that i expect a real big difference but...
Many viewers rely on you to accurately guide them toward an improvement in their quality of life. I'm glad you are calling attention to the utility of readily obtainable decor products to help achieve that end. Your comments, E. G. 7:35, present concerning information inconsistencies from the IKEA link you provide. Some viewers might not be familiar with drape sizing and fitting conventions. Your presentation does little to change that. Mentioning briefly the services of a skilled fabric craft person is hardly adequate for the uninitiated, but a good beginning for many of us. Thank you for your well intended efforts. Hopefully your presentation will stimulate viewers to welcome alternative means to improve their audio environment, decor, and experience. Thanks for all your contributions. Wish you the best for the future.
It would be interesting to see the variation between multiple measurements (frequency response and RT60) at the listening position for a given listening configuration (e.g., curtains open). To account for the uncertainty in individual measurements, it might be worth averaging multiple measurements at the listening position for a given listening configuration and then comparing that to an averaged set of measurements for a different listening configuration.
Well. If your curtains are open. The materiel is still in the room absorbing sound. A better comparison would be to remove them completely.
I've seen a few comments like this. Yes, the material is still in the room when the curtains are open. But the larger point is that whenn the curtains are open, the windows are exposed to sound. And windows are potentially refelective surfaces like a wall, the ceiling or the floor. The idea behind sound absorbing curtains is that by covering up those reflective surfaces you can (but not always) reduce the reverb.
Since moving the "well, actually" crowd seems to have infested the comments. Pretty sad when John's entire vibe is gentle expert commentary that you can take or leave as you like.
"Oh pull yourself together" ! .... 😎
One day son all this will be yours. What the curtains? Doesn't everyone know adding soft furnishings helps absorb reflections? But in this case John I would suggest those curtains are too thin and only cover a small area if your total room dimensions to make any audiable difference. Pull yourself together man.
To be honest, virtually any piece of fabric will have SOME sound dampening properties..
but thin curtains will probably do nothing, UNLESS, you have no carpets, very few things on the wall, et cetera.
But I`ve lived a couple of places where laying down a carpet and putting up curtains made my entire existence livable hehe, bunch of hard surfaces all over means echo-palooza, so yeah, but not in a normal living space with furniture and carpets and decoration I would think.
Wait, did you just say stitches in your EYE? :o
I don't know what is happening any more.
I would think the difference in measurement is down to the margin of error, not actual changes caused by the curtains. The difference is simply too small to say anything conclusive other then "the difference is negligible"
Interesting video. In an untreated room difference could be a bit more significant, I would assume.
I like your ambition experimentation is the way to go 😉
It’s all about mass. Those are thin and light. I’ve got double lined heavy blackout curtains covering 50% of my walls. Probably ~20-25 lbs of material. It’s helped a noticeable amount. Clap test, fans are quieter. How much? Maybe 3-5db in the high end.
Who knows, maybe some cleaver engineering could do more with less but I doubt there’s a substantial way to reduce sound without mass or power. Something’s gotta give.
i like your attitude toward curtains John
"It's curtains for this channel" Oh no thought I, what could be wrong......?? Great review, funny almost as quite possibly the least likely product to expect you to cover. Good conclusions though, as the curtains work well visually, which is nice, yet fail on other claims. Well done John, I hope the stitches have come out well and we will see what you can conjure up for us next. Mugs perhaps? Audiophile Cheeses? We await your pleasure.
You should have measured it with the curtains closed and without them at all. if you don't even put it on, the difference would definitely be bigger, since it absorbs the sound even in the open position. Great video anyway!
Yes, that’s exactly what I would wanna know.
Hi John, if you’re up for some experimentation, you might consider adding a second pair to each window. When closed, they will hang fuller and have a more uneven surface. More like they look now when open. Could be a shot in the dark, but I have a feeling it might help. Good luck. Love your channel - Kelly
Great. Love, love, love your attitude and style towards what you do. These curtains was a bit audiophile graded, but now you focus on the audiophile plants. They do more then thin IKEAs. Hold on, you might buy plants at IKEA!! What are you going to do? Berliner IKEA plants? Achtung!
I want my listening room to look like the Black Lodge from Twin Peaks. Curtains everywhere!
I have a lot of windows in my office, even along the wall behind my speakers. My thick curtains make a huge difference. And I love that they block out all the light as a bonus. I can't think of a solution for removing window sound reflections while still letting in the light.
This video had a whiff of the sound absorbing plants about it, but a week early!
Frankly I would have been surprised if a lightweight, semi-opaque bit of cloth made much difference.
Speaker grills, which are intended to be acoustically transparent, come to mind.
Gotta get your Vitamin D when listening to music 👍🏽
One reason why I love my headphones, of which I have quite a few, is that I can listen to music without these concerns. I first got really into headphones when I lived in a flat in London in the 90s. I didn't want to disturb my neighbours with music so headphones were a great option. Anyway I now live in a detached house in Brighton but I still listen to music with headphones primarily, I'm into the way of it. I don't want to have to make changes to the rooms in my house, I like the way they are. With really good headphones the sound quality is truly stunning, way ahead of what can be achieved for the same price with speakers.
I do know that John has made these points at various times himself. I do think that a lot of audiophiles might like to have a look at the excellence of good quality of headphones, if you haven't tried them you might be surprised at just what can be achieved.
I do think that this is an interesting video anyway, I do like that John addresses broader issues of audio rather than just reviewing components all the time.
This was a little mean but quite funny. I approve of this sort of click bait.
This reminds me of your "Houseplants for audiophiles" video ;)
you magnificent bastard. well played
Gunnlaug is a REALLY old female name here in Norway. You say it perfectly
Darko,
You don't need to make a whole video about Ikea curtains. It's simple, if they let light through then they will let sound through. You need heavy curtains (with multiple layers of high density fabric sandwiched) like the ones they have in theatres, even there they have two sets with a air gap between. These theatre curtains only stop mid range and hi frequency, for bass you need curtains made of concrete, lead, sand (inert materials).
Yeah, only the thick curtains will give the room a bit more of a 'warmer' sound. I'm roughly guessing that velvet curtains, with lining, would be the best. I suppose most people would assume that, but you have to either like the look of them, or put up with them if sound is your priority. :)
Don't forget that your Umik-1 has an accuracy of +-1 dB.
For best results, do each measurement looped at least 3 times. If you did that, the difference would probably be smaller.
curtains open and closed probably isn't a big enough audible difference, but with or without curtains might be. Or prior to the Vicoustic treatments, I'm sure the curtains would be a noticeable difference. I'm sure you are at the point of diminishing returns. I'm glad you've optimized your listening area though and described the process and changes you have heard and measured. Thank you!
You had me laughing very hard at the first time, but again it's a very good made video in so many ways. I think you could even inform me about tax return thingymagic and I would be happy to watch it.
And it's extremly nice to see you building from ground up and doing those measurements for the tech heads among your viewers.
You know John you could also Double up the curtains so when you want light...you use the center set l. And when it's say night time you can then use both for a more density. And you may...obtain more sound deadening for Night Music... They likely attunate the high and hence sharpness?
Double them up. Bet you’d see a difference in your measurements though you’d sacrifice a bit of light.
These are too light to notice any difference. Maybe it will help overall reverb time but not more than other furniture.
I had contact with Hofa akustik (germany) They have specialized curtains but I did not go with it because it will mess up your room. It acts as a big sound blocker or insulator.
you got me with the title. well done.
Ha, ha, good title. I might have to get a pair. We have a lot of heavy padded curtains elsewhere, mostly to keep the cold out.
The reason it shows a negligible improvement at the higher frequencies is that the wavelength is much shorter and easier to absorb. Low frequency long wavelength as you know is much,much harder to absorb
To test them you need to put mic where the window glass is and than test with them open and closed. What you did will not show much, as even when they are open, they still absorb sound, maybe some frequencies even more as its still soft material in the room. What you did is not measure their absorption (what IKEA says its for) but just differences in room with them closed and opened. Glass as surface is not the worst for sound from physical properties. But I guess from listening stand point there will not be difference with/without them as its too low of impact compared to everything else you have going on there.
Thank you for this John! I was considering curtains as a kind of "room treatment" in the room where my other system is. I'm glad I've watched this video before I splashed 70 EUR on a pair of curtains (that's what they cost here at IKEA Serbia).
The title had me panicking!!
The content had me laughing out loud!!
BTW - have you had the chance to listen to the Bang and Olufsen H95 headphones? ....or the Bang and Olufsen EX?
The H95s are really great, but I would like to hear how you feel about them in relation to the Sennheiser Momentum 4 and Momntum 3 TW and the Bathys.
You have a perspective that is not easy to find - practical AND nuanced, which I greatly appreciate, so any thoughts would be helpful. You very rarely give definite responses and always leave room for us to make our own minds up - even when you've made your own up already - which I like.
Love to get your thoughts.
Good luck with the eye!!
See you on the next one!!
Thick, double or better triple layer curtains may loose you the translucency but will vastly and noticeably improve reverb coming from the window
I think these curtains, when using just a few (square meters) of them don't do a lot. But still the difference between closed and open is probably not the main thing. The fact that they are installed in the room might be the most significant difference. Open or closed...
No surprise, really. I mean, what can you expect from something as thin as a curtain fabric? The difference between closed and open also make sense. Open means a large area thinly covered, closed means a narrower but thicker column covering a narrow section of the wall.
I've seen it recommended to leave curtains open for listening because most rooms are more reverberant at lower frequencies than in the high treble. 4kHz is around where you see the 60 degrees off axis start to drop off in typical 25-28 mm soft domes.
I have pleated curtains made to measure and directly on the glass of each window. The frequency response looked the same quite high up, and even slightly more ragged at higher frequencies. Didn't do an RT60, though.
Easy: when something is hard to pronounce like "Gunnlaug" - simply let Jana D. do it for you. She probably wants a small fee. But we will enjoy the result for sure!
I'm not defending Ikea (What? The curtains?) but, as you say, they might have more effect in another room where the windows have more of an impact on the sound. Also, what if you added extra width so, when closed, there was still a lot of play in them. Finally, Ikea aren't probably interested in what we find measuring sound inside the room - most normal people are interested in how it behaves letting sound into the room so that test would involve putting a speaker outside the window to do a frequency sweep from out there, measuring the sound inside the room with the curtains open and closed.
I wouldn't have thought a relatively sheer curtain that allows light to pass would, at the same time, attenuate sound, and presume the efficacy of the curtains would depend in large part on the amount to which they're pleated when closed? If one had the funds, would slatted shutters be another option? They could be adjusted and, as slats, would reflect sound to varying degrees and in different directions, depending on their slant.
How about this, you can get white acoustic foam in a flat format and get sheets put
into open backed frames and the hang them from the ceiling on nice hooks about 20cm
from the window and have a gap of 10cm from each hung frame which will allow light in.
Also because you would have the 20cm gap in-between the window and the panels you
double the reduction with soundwaves front and back. And because they hang you choose
if there in place or not. That would work far better for what your trying to achieve regarding
the reduction of sound reflections regarding windows.
Look at The Acoustics Company for the Melamine Foam.
if they drown the sound of the wife out i'll have 2 pairs please
Adequate application of volume. Or deep dive discussions about the merits of room correction and the science of psycho-acoustics will typically silence the lady present in the room.
Hi John, love your measurement videos. Are you in the room when you do them? I'm about as tall as you (2,01 meters 90kg) and wonder how much my body would affect the measurements.
I was wondering about the impact of different spectacle frames and how much their relative pressure from their different weights’ place on the earlobes.
I presume, until the stitches are completely healed, a comparison video between contacts and spectacles is out of the question. At least until April 2024?
I have also noticed that mid range improves slightly if I rest my chin on my hand, but only if my knees are crossed. Right hand as a slightly more damping effect on bass than my left, however.
You got me! And here I thougth you were signing off UA-cam for good. I'm glad to hear you're not.
You should’ve measured the drilling sound coming from the outside with curtains closed and open 😉🤷🏻♂️
I am actually asking, when I shopped for curtains they were rated for sound absorption but that rating was specific to the curtain hung with a significant amount of “bunching” I.e. there had to be quite a bit of redundant width so that the curtain was not flat when fully opened, is that how the ikea curtains are rated as well?
It would be more relevant for the most of us if the curtains were tested in an untreated room. They are not likely to make any difference in yours. You should test them upstairs instead.
I’ve got a set of these and I totally echo (pun intended) John’s findings.
I would say that it depends also on room size, what is the ratio of wall with windows vs other walls in consideration the room size. I hear the difference for sure in my place with curtains on or off. (I dont use ikea, but lets say normal standard curtains). I have non acoustically treated room and just standard living room furniture in it. (sofa, carpet, table, book case). I think it would have measurable improvement in standard rooms which are not professionally treated the way you have.
back to the drawing board John been there well ended up with double lined heavy curtains .lol mind you living in the North of Scotland probably good buy 😊
Maybe a good fabric to cover diy sound absorption panels with?
Why did I read it as curtains for this chair😅
Nice have been following your guidance on acoustic treatment, it’s the best upgrade going, any chance you could review some super tweeters….. are they really good .. or just more hifi over kill ..
Hey John, thanks for testing these! I’m m curious if the following conditions from the Ikea product description were met: For effective sound absorbency, drape the curtain with folds, 9-15 cm from the wall.
I have these personally and did rehang them at the specified distance and with the Ikea Riktig for pleating and do hear a small improvement in vocal intelligibility when they are closed over my 6’ wide, 8’ tall window
Yep. 12cm between window and curtain. Full pleats aren’t as easy if you’re using the curtains as per the 145cm width specification. If pleats are mandatory, then perhaps that 145cm of coverage should be listed as 75cm. 🤷♂️
@@DarkoAudio Fair, I guess I never looked at the specified coverage width. Anyways, aesthetics win out, thanks again John
Argghh! I fell for the click-bait headline!
But at the same time Im relieved it was just that and that the channel is not closing down due to health issues, war or anything else. And I liked the content.
Ikea offer curtain rails that are double rails. So you can have a lighter curtain, and a heavy curtain
Is the difference like buying posh cables