Accelerating the STEALTH Apple IIGS!
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Thanks PCBWay.com - Today, we're going to upgrade the Stealth Apple IIGS with an extremely rare accelerator - the ZipGS! We'll finally be fast enough to play the IIGS port of Wolf3d.
Let's explore this weird accelerator!
LINKS:
🍎 ZipGS Manual: www.apple-iigs....
🍎 ZipGS Overclocking Guide: apple2.org.za/...
🍎 The New TranswarpGS: wiki.reactivem...
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#AppleIIGS #ZipGS #VintageComputing
There's a new IIGS accelerator called the AppleSqueezer GS (I'm its creator). It's a lot faster than the configuration you showed here, and comes with 14MB of built in RAM :) Also it's made with modern components, so a lot less likely to fail soon. Nice video!!
need to look into one for one of my IIGS's. Have fun
Where can we buy these?
14MB?! What a madlad. If you have any videos about it I'll check it out ;)
that’s so cool Niek
Schematics or it didn't happen 😁
In my much younger days (25+ years ago) I attempted to overclock my ZipGS. Unfortunately I snapped one of the capacitors(?) off the board. I should really attempt a fix one day. Although the ribbon cable is also missing.
Do it!
Good luck!
Oh man, the would be so disappointing
For most of us, snapping a capacitor is a learning experience on sourcing & soldering & the occasional botch repair. I'm sorry you didn't grow up with the cool kids at the radioshack
ReactiveMicro can reproduce the cable
You, my friend, need this chip puller. Changes your life.
I'm amazed he doesn't have one as some one that messes with these old computers. I had one when I used to make genesis repro carts lol
Connecting ground on the old "stored" processor reduces the risk of ESD damage on it. It doesn't eliminate it completely of course but it's a lot better than leaving it completely unconnected so I bet that's why the put in that ground trace - and it's not like putting that trace cost anything.
Oh those times when a postal stamp size game screen with 3 fps was "kind of playable" :)
As to the IIgs clock speed, it's my understanding that the early 65C816 chips were supposed to run at 4 Mhz, but weren't stable, so they downclocked to 2.8 Mhz during development. Once good 65C816 4 Mhz CPUs were available, the team upgraded the prototype to 4 Mhz, but since the 65C816 had may 1 clock cycle instructions and the 68000 used in the Mac had many 3 or 4 clock cycle instructions, a 4 Mhz 65C816 was faster for almost all tasks than the 8 Mhz 68000 in the Macintosh. So Steve Jobs as Apple CEO nixed the 4 Mhz IIgs, keeping it at the 2.8 Mhz it was finalized with.
Jobs had nothing to do with it, blame WDC. Getting samples of the 65816 running beyond 3-4Mhz in 1985-86 during IIgs development was a problem. Even in 1989 when the TranswarpGS came out it was an issue getting 8Mhz samples running. The early cards were clocked around 7ish Mhz and had GALs to slow down the CPU during certain instructions due to bugs.
It really wasn't until the modern Sanyo produced CMOS 65c816-14 that "good" CPUs became readily available. Those units would clock at 20Mhz without issue in many cases. The CMD SuperCPU for the C64 used these. Of course this was long after the IIgs was current.
Classic Jobs.
At least his random quotes are fading out.
In favour of Elon Musk.
Yuck.
@@DavideNastri at least Musk didn't con his friends. I hope 😁
@@akkudakkupl no, just his business partners!
12:14 not so much "fat fingers" as you missed a step, you want to loosen _both_ sides with the pry tool before lifting to prevent that popping out at you like that
_then_ when you still fumble and drop it you can blame the fingers 🙃
Honestly I like the camera pointed at the monitor more than a direct capture.
Yes! This needs to be a memo to all retro computer channel dealies. Feels much more 'hands on' and authentic - gives me a feel for the machine.
Agreed. Hard to work on the machine too though.
In all fairness, both Woz and Jobs were gone by the time the IIgs came out, so the powers that be decided to keep it from cannibalizing Mac sales.
Just watched a video about an LCD being installed inside the apple IIgs rgb monitor case and then saw this being posted right now! Its a IIgs kinda day.
I used to have one that i got on ebay for $10 in the late 90s, with RGB monitor, keyboard, mouse, and a 3.5 and a 5.25 floppy plus a 1MB ram upgrade, but I gave it away because i got bored with it. Kinda wish I didn't.
My first ZipGS was an 8 MHz/16K cache board like yours, and found it made the IIGS feel more smooth, but not necessarily "fast" per say. After replacing it with a 15 MHz/64k cache ZipGS (currently have it at 12.5 MHz) the machine just *flies*! Screen redraws are practically invisible, windows and menus just zap on and off the scree instantly! I can't use the GS without one. Used to have several ZipGS and TWGS boards on hand, but unfortunately I only have two ZipGS (12/64 and 9/32) and one TWGS (7/8). I guess I'm fortunate to have those at all!
Small pet-peeve: You have your AppleColor RGB brightness too high. Optimally, set the contrast to maximum, and the brightness should be lowered until the background blacks are pure-black/invisible (the color saturation will vastly improve, as will text sharpness). Also, never touch the gold fingers on a slot card. The natural oils on your fingers can interfere with the electrical contacts and more importantly, touching that area can send ESD directly into the card!
Incidentally, I've been an Apple IIGS user for 34 continuous years. Seriously, never once retired my machine or put it into storage, it's stayed on my desk and I've keep using it all these years! It's my favorite piece of tech of all time, beating even my SNES or Vectrex, and that says a lot!
My favorite part of that port of SMB is that it seems to be using a redone version of the music used for Thing on a Spring.
Aight. Time to crash Reactive Micro's website.
Also you could call LGR. He has a Transwarp GS. Maybe the two of you could put your machines head to head.
A year ago purchased a poorly photographed IIgs on eBay quite cheap. When I received it, inside I found a ZipGS 1.02 and SCSI Card Rev C and an AE 4MB memory expansion. 8-)
Nice score
8:50 - "Kind of sluggish but runs surprisingly well for 2.8 MHz"
Nah, the original Famicom version runs at 1.8MHz and runs way faster... IIgs version is slow because it has no hardware scrolling or sprites.
That Super Mario "port" with the Commodore C64 "Thing on a Spring" tune :)
I admit watching that motherboard flex made me sharply inhale! :)
I once had 6 working ZIP GSX. I sold 3 and was left with 3 working cards. Over the years all 3 cards died. The ASIC on the ZIP GSX is dying of old age. In the coming years more and more ASICs will die, as sad as it is. I would not upgrade the card! It may very well kill it in the long run.
Zip Technologies went the cheap to produce route of cramming the slowdown logic into a ASIC. The TWGS went with an early CPLD and discrete logic, the bonus of which is that it can be more readily upgraded, overclocked, and repaired.
@@NJRoadfan Hard to tell if it was the 'cheap' way. It was a pretty good accelerator and could easily archive 12,5 MHz at the time. With the later 14 MHz WDC 65c816 chips, the ZIPGSX can go up to 16 MHz in most scenarios (it needs selected 12/15ns SRAM for that to work). The ASIC is actually running at a constant 20 MHz with overhead 16Mhz is most likely at the upper end of technical possibilities. The 65816 CPUs at the time were buggy and reached 10 MHz at max (overclocking to 12 MHz was possible with selected chips). I have tested my defective cards and came to the conclusion that it is most likely the ROM in the ASIC that went bad. It may have a limited number of read-cycles before it dies. Sometimes heating the card to 150°C for 2 hours in the oven brought a card back for a few months... but eventually all cards died.
I am the first to say, that the Transwarp GS is the better card despite the older technology and less efficient design. The TWGS is just a lot more repairable than the ZIPGSX. I have 3 TWGS and all work normally, one is even stable at 18 MHz (about the same speed in applications than a 15-16 KHz ZIPGSX). I would like to see a revamped TWGS with a modern FPGA at 20 MHz. It should be possible since the code for all the programmable chips on the card is known.
The ZIP Tech guys were very good at designing cache circuits and were very good at large scale integration. The 6502 ZIP-Chip was a marvel at the time. It used an integrated ASIC, cache and CPU on a ceramic (later normal PCB) carrier in a "chiplet" style configuration. Very advanced at the time. I suspect something similar for the ZIPGSX ASIC and it may contain multiple chips/chip-dice. Maybe the 40pin 'debugging'-connector was used for programming the internal OTP-ROM?
Here are some internal images of the ZIP-CHIP 4000 and 8000... as well as a lot of 6 defective ZIPGSX before repair.
drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5SAWSGa49rLamJSZTloVkphQjA?resourcekey=0-NPOtW0st5FVpAidNBKirPQ&usp=sharing
@@john_ace Some awesome images of the ZIP-CHIP internals - thank you!
Dr. Sean Beckett stepped into the IIGS accelerator and vanished.
For what it’s worth, as long as it’s done well (as you have), IMO recording the screen makes for superior viewing to screen captures.
I wonder if anyone ever did anything with the Ti 99/4A ? I think we got one in 1982 when I was 10. Along with some game cartridges, which if you had enough you clippd the proof of purchases to send off for the Terminal Emulator II cartridge & speech synthesizer attachment. (it made some of the video games talk and there was some basic programs you could create an entry field and whatever you typed it would say.) We didn't know anything about the whole hooking it up to the telephone thing. I think I have one of the white units that came out after the silver unit we originally had. I think I found it at a garage sale or thrift. We used the cassette tape to load the various Adventure games (you had to hook up the Adventure cartridge then load the game from cassette) and also save programs I typed from basic., as well as saving my progress from Adventure or Tunnels Of Doom.
Dude, what's the frame rate of your camera? How the hell do you have it pointed AT your monitor and there isn't a bit of CRT flicker? Your camera must be incredible. O_O
A 1MHz 6502 is about performance equivalent to the original IBM PCs with their 8088 at 4.77MHz, so then you can think of the IIGS as a Turbo XT and the upgrade card as like one of those Intel drop in 286/386 upgrade boards.
Also consider that the PC version of Wolfenstein 3D has been modified to "run" on an 8088, just about as well as it runs here...
Excellent!! Hopefully I will do the same on my stock GS. Do you need to replace or upgrade any of the ROMs on the motherboard?
You say "super mayrio" and "super mehrio" so many times that I have to ask if you were joking or if you actually think thats how "m-ah-rio" is pronounced
The motherboard flex had me yelling at the screen , it's not supported or fastened down very well .
Finally - someone did that grounding joke! Bravo 😂
Very cool. What do you think about the AppleSqueezer?
Duuuude... Spend the $25 bucks and get an EX-2 IC extractor... Good video otherwise!
Oh, you're going to keep doing videos on things that interest me? Fine, I'll show you. I've subbed and enabled notifications. And to add insult to injury, I clicked the Like button. Sorry, but I had to do it.
Yeah, you show him who is boss! 😉
Very impressive. Is it possible to increase the window size on Wolf 3D?
The IIgs (accelerated or not) might not be able to keep up. The video RAM on the IIgs runs at 1MHz, and Wolf 3D on the IIgs works by rendering the game first to fast memory (which runs at the speed of the CPU) then using the IIgs' RAM "shadowing" technology to copy the fast RAM to slow RAM with a technique called "PEI slamming" - basically the program has to copy the graphics data onto itself to trigger the "shadowing" feature. To do this as fast as possible, the program relocates the stack to coincide with the location of the graphics data so it can use a 6-cycle instruction (at 1MHz, because it's shadowing to slow RAM) to copy each 2 bytes of display data...
So to "PEI slam" the whole display would take 96ms (frame buffer is 2 bytes per 4 pixels, so 1.5ms per pixel at 320 x 200), meaning that if the game were doing *nothing* other than updating the display from the double buffer, it could only get 10 frames per second running at full screen. Regardless of what kind of accelerator is in a IIgs, that's the speed limit for updating the display.
As shown in the video the game is using around 30% of the display, so it should be able to update from double buffer in around 29ms, increasing the theoretical upper limit for the game's frame rate to around 33 fps.
(EDIT): I'm not entirely sure I'm correct with my analysis of the timings here. the PEI instruction takes 6 cycles to read 2 bytes of memory and write it, in this case, back to the same location. Since it's a write to shadowed RAM the CPU does need to slow down to accommodate the speed of the Mega-II core. The timings I calculated supposed that the CPU would be clocked down to 1MHz for the whole instruction, but I've seen info that seems to indicate that it would've just had to wait long enough for the Mega-II to sync the update to slow RAM, so maybe PEI-slamming is faster than I thought (Somewhere between 2-3 times faster than what I calculated, by my guess, since only the "write" portion of the PEI instruction needs to run slower)
The coolest thing is that the 65C816 at 8MHz can run Wolf3D better than some 286s at 10MHz (OK, a decent 286 with zero wait state RAM is probaby better, but still!)
Back in the day, I was very satisfied the 7MHz TransWarp GS. It made the computer much more tolerable to use, and my GS was my main day to day computer until about 1998.
Congrats on your ZipGSX!
I'm hoping to get the AppleSqueezer for my clear case "Not So Stealthy IIGS" build, but according to Nic that depends on when the plant in Singapore can get back online from the shutdowns and they supply the main component to his accelerator.
That's a lot of flex on that motherboard 😬
You definitely need a clear-case monitor with this one!
The most important thing should be to increase the total cache memory on the card. Since it's socketed, can't you try to increase the cache size?
You need a zen garden to properly ground yourself. 🤣
I found the GSOS so easy to learn how to use.
The bit I liked was it was idiot proof. It always asked you to confirm any changes which being a newbie was essential.
I had a transwarp and i definitely appreciated it along with a hard disc.
Something I don't get, how did the apple 2gs do that amazing Port of Rastan if it was struggling with super Mario?
It all has to do with the tight coding talent of John Brooks.
I am curious about this myself.
I suspect that part of it is that we perceive the speed issue more in Super Mario Bros (a kind of simple, but fairly fast-moving game) than in Rastan (which should have buttery-smooth scrolling, but the game itself is slow enough that a bit of chop is maybe less noticeable)
Had the IIGS beaten the Macintosh , running at the full 8mhz I purpose that the next generation of the Apple II line would eventually been the Platinum line using components of the 2000's all the way to present day dubbed the stealth line of computers. using components like HDMI, USB, Serial, Parallel, Thunderbolt, and lastly a Compact flash Card reader present at the back of the machine.
Like your channel... Big into Retro collecting and have a bunch of retro computers, audio gear, etc. Plan on doing restorations and expansions as well. Anything your looking for let me know I may have in my collection. Recently I found my Quantum 3DFX card with cables, disk, and manual going through some old boxes. Just don't have a Win95 machine to test it on yet.
This machine came out in 1986, keep in mind that the Macintosh did not get color until 1987, and it cost 5.5 times as much, not including a monitor. I don’t think apple even realized how advanced the IIGS was, even with the sabotaged performance.
hey great video! at school we had a mix of various Apple IIs and early non-color Macs to use. we never had the GS it was all like MS-DOS to get the apple to do anything. these machines do seem cooler than I would have thought to mess around with. we did later get a lot of computers updated, I think they got rid of all the classics, plus and 512K machines, and got LC2s and classic 2s throughout the computer labs. We did have a few standout machines added such as the Mac 2 vx and PowerMac 6100/60 also, but just one of each :)
Nintendo legal would like to: *Know your location*
mmmmm dat space bar sound < 3
Here is a grail “Mac” to find… the NewTek One or NuTek Duel. They are pretty rare and a compatible Mac, not a clone. Ran Motif on the desktop and had an OS that had a reverse engineered Mac compatibility layer.
That frame background on wolfestein 3d totally looks like techmoan’s lounge wallpaper, don’t shoot the puppets!
We want "We're pulling Chips and flipping DIPS!" - T-Shirts!!😂😂
Did he just say "super mary-oh"? I've never been this upset about anything in my entire life. I stopped this entire video because of this. What the f*******
Thank you for the "ground yourself" gag. As someone who does this daily, I have been waiting ages for someone in tech space of UA-cam to finally make that joke
If only they had gone with the ZILOG Z8000 processor could have been a real speed merchant.
This was awesome. I have a //gs and Wolfenstein wouldn't even launch when I tried to run it. I guess it wouldn't have been worth it anyways!
Interesting bit of lore. But by 1986, Steve Jobs had already left to "pursue other interests", as they say.
Sean, just a niggle, I've heard you say Uthernet as "other net" in all your videos, but it is pronounced "oothernet" with a harder "th" - just like saying ethernet, but change the "e" to "oo".
I would. But I have a "no tattoo" policy. But your channel RoCkS! Cheers AR
late to the party lol but I have a iigs ive been needing to restore and it has the transwarp gs. after seeing how pricey they can be im glad it came iwth it...just need to get a stock cpu so when i get it done and stuff..I can compare stock to transwarp power speed
To be honest, I prefer camera pointed at the screen as long as it looks good and this looks. great!
Ive been wanting to Number Munchers with Nintendo 64 graphics
Wait you didn't follow the manual correctly when it said the ground yourself I think it means ground yourself in this reality and you just grounded yourself in nature
The Woz should've been in charge of Apple's product line.
I know it's dumb but I laughed when you grounded yourself. :)
You desperately need a DIP extractor. It's a u shaped piece of stamped steel with two inward facing tabs at the open end that you slide under the end of the ends of the chip so you can pull it straight up and out.
There are special pliers for removing chips and processorcs. Also so close to 40K subs :)
Pullin' chips and flippin dips sounds like it would have been an edgy thing to say in 91.
Whadda you mean Steve Jobs killed the IIgs? He wasn't even around in Apple at the time cause he left the company in '85 to start NeXT Computers. Blame John Scully who wanted to kill off the Apple II line in order to sell overpriced Macs. (Does no one read WIkipedia anymore?)
There's more to it than that. Apple had to plan for the long term, because every computer takes a relatively long time from drawing board to finished product. Despite being successful in the past, things moved on and the Apple ii became an evolutionary dead end. As for Wikipedia, you might want to take a lot of it with a pinch of salt. It's good, but not a definitive source of information.
Released intentionally crippled and only received the barest of support from Apple. Much like the IBM PCjr and Commodore 128, it makes you wonder why they even bothered.
Hindsight is great. Developing can take years from initial idea to the finished product. Things can change rapidly during that time. Unlike Motorola's 68K series, the development of the 65xxx wasn't going anywhere fast. There were problems getting it to run at the intended speeds, but the GS was already pretty much finished by then. You need to set up contracts with suppliers and manufacturers well in advance, and they will want payment to cover their costs, even if your product is stillborn, so Apple had to make choices. Ironically, a similar fate lay in store for Apple with both 68K and PPC processor lines.
You need to get a transparent monitor shell if that exists. It's needed to perfect the prison style.
Pulling chips and flipping dips? I love me some chips and dips! All kinds!
11:45 what a beautiful scene! where can i order this garden ornament? It's so cute, I want to have one
I really like how you push this poor machine to its limits with new hardware.
is the conections to the original processor what allows the machine to recognize the processor, so it starts?
What’s a Maryoh?
It's like a Mario, but with a funny accent. Most people pronounce a lot of words incorrectly. Especially in the USA, where they claim to speak "English"... but being an actual, real life, living, breathing native Englishman, living in England, and speaking actual English, I refute that claim! 😁
@@another3997/r/wooosh
steve jobs is the best ceo ever how dare you inselt him
just a joke but nit a joke about the steve ceo thing
I think you forgot the link to the video of you building the II GS!
"Somebody did a remake of super mayreo"
Sean... it's pronounced m-ar-io
I hope you don't have a regional accent and that you speak every language fluently in order to get the pronunciation of every word correct. 😉
Nice video ! I love my Zip chip GS so much 🥰
2:06 is a card meant to pop up here with a video link?
My IIgs is tricked out with everything but a dang accelerator. Even with all my II’s extra stuff, many of the better games just don’t play well or at all.
I look forward to a comparison video between the ZipGS and TransWarp GS. I really need to dust off my IIgs after about 3 years of sitting on my shelf...
Transwarp gs - made by the Borg! 😲
Is the Zip2GS a faster upgrade than the TransWarpGS, or just more rare?
I think it's rarer. The TWGS was just a more popular product at the time in comparison. That said, the ZipGSX had a smaller chip count which also made it run cooler than the TWGS.
And apparently the ZipGSX can't be overclocked as much as the TWGS, so for those who want to run the fastest still look to that board.
It seems like there should have been some sort of attempt to use the original CPU as a part of the accelerator in order to get even MORE performance out of it, but maybe that simply wasn't possible. Either way, very cool!
You should get a clear case for that monitor
You never said... were you grounded?
I’ve never heard of super Mary-O…
All that excitement over 8mhz. That's only a little more than 2x speed
If even that... Because the system still has a built-in bottleneck of the 1MHz Mega-II core, which includes the graphics chipset and its RAM...
Mario with "thing on a spring" music?
careful man the Nintendo Nazis will copyright strike you for using Mario's likeness
The way they treated owners of this machine is what originally started my Apple boycott in 1989. It stands to this day. I will never have an Apple product in my house for the rest of my life.
I'm not particularly bothered about Apple products in general, but that seems like a rather extreme attitude, considering it happened 30 years ago. Apple aren't the only company to sideline a portion of their customers in order to move things in another direction. Some people dispute the idea it was even Apple's fault, but rather than the chip manufacturer, WDC. After all, despite many promises, Motorola later struggled with 68K development, and both they and IBM eventually hit a wall with PowerPC. In both cases Apple were forced to change platform to survive.
@@another3997 It wasn't because of the speed of the machine and the reduced speed of the CPU, it's because of the way *Apple* treated their customers. They promised an upgrade, demoed it, then said "we're not releasing it, you'll just have to buy a Mac". This was actually the last good product Apple made. Macs have always been utter garbage. Their other products are cheaply made crap that they charge a premium for. When Apple's most powerful machine is less than 1/5th as powerful as my computer while costing more than twice as much, yeah it's lolworthy.
Grounding is SO important.
Lol the grounding bit made me laugh
Loved seeing the VCF shirt :)
Before I do any computer work, from now on I will forever ground myself just like you did!
Overclock video please :)
Cool, commenting for yt algo.
0:18 Steve Jobs photo
Lol good silly grounding 👍🏻
Many kudos to the very generous person who donated this. You're awesome!
You absolute madman.
can it run doom?