I've done PAT for over 17 years now and worked for multiple different large companies and can honestly say more than 90% of the people I've worked with and do work with couldn't explain whats actually required for a visual inspection. Alot of these people have their 2377 but have been trained to only care about the amount of test not the quality.
I've come across many cheap and cheerful 4+ way leads with a 13A 1362 fuse in the plug. On the rear of the moulded 4way lead unit itself, it states in a hard to read imprint that unit cannot exceed 10A.
i come across so many leads that fail, i recently went to a job and come across a plug with unsheathed live & neutral pins, it had a PAT test label on it from 3 years ago, upon checking, it was a maintenance company and as a PAT tester i generally find that maintenance companies that do PAT testing just stick a label anything and dont know what they are doing
Nothing to say the shutters weren't functional on the day of PAT testing. Admittedly it is unlikely, but it is possible that they were working correctly.
Considering the PAT tester on site tried to push 26 Amp through my laptop I doubt he was clever enough. Also the user checks 'should' have also picked this up anyway since the PAT test.
@@cjmillsnun no one ever checks anything until there is a fault, i have come across some quite large PAT testing companies (here in london) that just stick labels on anything, i have seen passive speakers with a PAT test label on them, laptops with labels on them, some companies just stick the labels and take your money
Hello SparkyNinja, nice channel and please keep going. I am new to the industry and recently passed my PAT exam. Could you clarify something and give your thoughts? 1. From the guidance, they say that the date of re-testing should not be marked on the label. What do you think about that? There are still labels to be bought with the retest date and I think practically that without a given specific re-test date, a lot of duty-holders wont even bother to organise that next time. 2. Guidance is slightly confusing on insulation resistance test for let say IT equipments, cause there are 3 different tests: a) the insulation resistance test reduced to 250V, b) protective conductor/touch current ( I reckon these are not two methods but the same method with two different names) c) the substitute/alternative leakage current test Can all of them be called soft tests? Or test instruments might have all of these options and how to choose a proper one? Any practical differences? 3. It is my lack of my knowledge, but could you explain how come for earth continuity hard test the instrument applies a test current up to 26A and still we can touch the earth lead and a metal part and not be shocked during the current application which is passing through a lead and metal that we can touch. Thanks
Hello Richard, thanks for the feedback. Congratulations on passing your exam. Okay then.. 1 - The reason it was chosen to remove the next test date from the Green 'PASS' label in the 4th edition of the Code was to try to remind duty holders of their need to regularly monitor the distribution and use of their electrical equipment and to constantly re-assess the need and frequencies for formal visual inspections and combined inspection and tests. If the PAT testing operative carried out a combined inspection and test and chose to put 12 months on the item, that would have hopefully been determined on suitable assessment of the equipment Class and environment of use. However once the work is done and the PAT testing operative has left, the electrical equipment may get moved. It may be issued to a new user - maybe one of lesser competence. The location itself may change use, or may change some it's use some of the time.. basically these are external factors that must always be assessed and it is the role of the Responsible person/electrical duty holder to do that, and not the PAT testing operative. You can still buy them because a) they made a ton of them just before the Code was published and b) PAT testers ask for them to carry on regardless. 2 - Well let's start with the insulation resistance test. If the switching in the IT equipment is mechanical - clicks in, clicks out - then this test may be of some use. But realistically it's not. The purpose of 250V is naturally to prevent overvoltage damage through the volt-sensitive electrical equipment, but bearing in mind that nothing gets energised, the test voltage and current won't get very far. If the switching is capacitive or similar, then it's next to useless. As for the protective conductor current/touch current test - these two are the exact same testing characteristics. The only reason you have to identify them and set the test accordingly on some instruments is because the PASS values are very different and so the meter needs to know what to say. The test is carried out by energising the electrical equipment for a set period of time, and then assessing for the presence of returning current on the reference conductor/protective conductor (according to Class) by monitoring the currents in the live conductors. The protective conductor current test is for Class I items (as they have a protective conductor) and the Touch current test is for Class II items (as leaking current will not flow until contact has been made with an alternative potential - most likely via TOUCHing the electrical equipment) The substitute/alternative leakage test is basically a load of crap. An extra-low voltage (in the area of 40V) is used, most often as the test instrument doesn't have a means of connection to the supply.It carries out the tests in a similar method to the above, but the equipment doesn't power up. The instrument will calculate the value using ohms law to give you a rough idea. The problem with this test is quite simple. Without energising the electrical equipment, charging the capacitors, energising the control gear and rotating the motors in electrical equipment - the losses won't occur. You can test an item, say its safe, then the second it is energised it could kill someone. As for regarding these as soft tests well: a) Insulation resistance at 250V dc is considered a soft test voltage b) Protective conductor current/Touch current tests are often considered soft tests but also considered as completelty the opposite. The reason is this - With the PCC test/Touch test, all you are doing to the electrical item itself is turn it on, and then turn it off. So there is no risk to the equipment and these tests are ideal for almost all electrical items. The issue though is the H&S risk with energising the item. c) The sub/leakage test is soft as a test, but do remember that soft tests often result in poor standards. You should only switch to soft once having assessed the potential risk to the equipment or persons. We start hard by default and then we switch to soft, well we're supposed to. Unfortunatley many instruments (battery ones for example) are made with soft tests only. These should only be used on rare occasions where the equipment requires it, but they are cheap and so manufacturers sell them to the masses. Test equipment manufacturers are very much part responsible for the poor practices in this industry. 3 - Well with the hard test the key is to not be in series with the test current. If you hold the end of the test lead with say one hand and then touch the exposed metal work of the appliance with the other, then unless the instrument has a low current pre-cursor checking facility then it is likely you will get a tickle. I used to a lot with an old Robin instrument when my boss replaced the crocodile clip with a paperclips. If you touch the metalwork whilst doing the test (which is ill-advised, but will happen nearly everyday) then you'll be safe if the test lead is offering the least resistive pathway for the testing current. I hope some if this is useful. Also I have already written a full advanced PAT series for the channel, just waiting for the old man to return one of my testers and I'll get cracking.👍
Hello I was wondering. If an employee is asked to do a visual inspection test of equipment and then is told to stick a regular extricate safety test sticker on is that addiwuate? Shouldn't a visual inspection only sticker be used instead? Thank you
It depends on the actions dictated by the duty holder. If the visual inspection is limited to class II equipment in say an office environment, then this may be considered all that is necessary. Class I items will require more inspections and subsequent testing in all areas that they are used, and so the green sticker would only be acceptable if the interval from the last inspection is considered adequate for a visual inspection only in this instance.
Lol well I looked at those holes and they all look the same to my eyes expect you really needed to be there. But glad you spotted them.. doing my 2377 next month and what I am really concerned about is FELV SELV PELV and ELV are these all just your basic "power supplies" for all these modern gadgets? No one is demonstrating the curved balls in this.
I've done PAT for over 17 years now and worked for multiple different large companies and can honestly say more than 90% of the people I've worked with and do work with couldn't explain whats actually required for a visual inspection. Alot of these people have their 2377 but have been trained to only care about the amount of test not the quality.
I've come across many cheap and cheerful 4+ way leads with a 13A 1362 fuse in the plug. On the rear of the moulded 4way lead unit itself, it states in a hard to read imprint that unit cannot exceed 10A.
i come across so many leads that fail, i recently went to a job and come across a plug with unsheathed live & neutral pins, it had a PAT test label on it from 3 years ago, upon checking, it was a maintenance company and as a PAT tester i generally find that maintenance companies that do PAT testing just stick a label anything and dont know what they are doing
Nothing to say the shutters weren't functional on the day of PAT testing. Admittedly it is unlikely, but it is possible that they were working correctly.
Considering the PAT tester on site tried to push 26 Amp through my laptop I doubt he was clever enough.
Also the user checks 'should' have also picked this up anyway since the PAT test.
User checks. Yeah good luck with that one, they only check things out if they stop working, and yes I've met that type of PAT tester.
@@cjmillsnun no one ever checks anything until there is a fault, i have come across some quite large PAT testing companies (here in london) that just stick labels on anything, i have seen passive speakers with a PAT test label on them, laptops with labels on them, some companies just stick the labels and take your money
Hello SparkyNinja, nice channel and please keep going.
I am new to the industry and recently passed my PAT exam. Could you clarify something and give your thoughts?
1. From the guidance, they say that the date of re-testing should not be marked on the label. What do you think about that? There are still labels to be bought with the retest date and I think practically that without a given specific re-test date, a lot of duty-holders wont even bother to organise that next time.
2. Guidance is slightly confusing on insulation resistance test for let say IT equipments, cause there are 3 different tests:
a) the insulation resistance test reduced to 250V,
b) protective conductor/touch current ( I reckon these are not two methods but the same method with two different names)
c) the substitute/alternative leakage current test
Can all of them be called soft tests? Or test instruments might have all of these options and how to choose a proper one? Any practical differences?
3. It is my lack of my knowledge, but could you explain how come for earth continuity hard test the instrument applies a test current up to 26A and still we can touch the earth lead and a metal part and not be shocked during the current application which is passing through a lead and metal that we can touch.
Thanks
Hello Richard, thanks for the feedback. Congratulations on passing your exam.
Okay then..
1 - The reason it was chosen to remove the next test date from the Green 'PASS' label in the 4th edition of the Code was to try to remind duty holders of their need to regularly monitor the distribution and use of their electrical equipment and to constantly re-assess the need and frequencies for formal visual inspections and combined inspection and tests. If the PAT testing operative carried out a combined inspection and test and chose to put 12 months on the item, that would have hopefully been determined on suitable assessment of the equipment Class and environment of use. However once the work is done and the PAT testing operative has left, the electrical equipment may get moved. It may be issued to a new user - maybe one of lesser competence. The location itself may change use, or may change some it's use some of the time.. basically these are external factors that must always be assessed and it is the role of the Responsible person/electrical duty holder to do that, and not the PAT testing operative.
You can still buy them because a) they made a ton of them just before the Code was published and b) PAT testers ask for them to carry on regardless.
2 - Well let's start with the insulation resistance test. If the switching in the IT equipment is mechanical - clicks in, clicks out - then this test may be of some use. But realistically it's not. The purpose of 250V is naturally to prevent overvoltage damage through the volt-sensitive electrical equipment, but bearing in mind that nothing gets energised, the test voltage and current won't get very far. If the switching is capacitive or similar, then it's next to useless.
As for the protective conductor current/touch current test - these two are the exact same testing characteristics. The only reason you have to identify them and set the test accordingly on some instruments is because the PASS values are very different and so the meter needs to know what to say.
The test is carried out by energising the electrical equipment for a set period of time, and then assessing for the presence of returning current on the reference conductor/protective conductor (according to Class) by monitoring the currents in the live conductors.
The protective conductor current test is for Class I items (as they have a protective conductor) and the Touch current test is for Class II items (as leaking current will not flow until contact has been made with an alternative potential - most likely via TOUCHing the electrical equipment)
The substitute/alternative leakage test is basically a load of crap. An extra-low voltage (in the area of 40V) is used, most often as the test instrument doesn't have a means of connection to the supply.It carries out the tests in a similar method to the above, but the equipment doesn't power up. The instrument will calculate the value using ohms law to give you a rough idea.
The problem with this test is quite simple. Without energising the electrical equipment, charging the capacitors, energising the control gear and rotating the motors in electrical equipment - the losses won't occur. You can test an item, say its safe, then the second it is energised it could kill someone.
As for regarding these as soft tests well:
a) Insulation resistance at 250V dc is considered a soft test voltage
b) Protective conductor current/Touch current tests are often considered soft tests but also considered as completelty the opposite. The reason is this - With the PCC test/Touch test, all you are doing to the electrical item itself is turn it on, and then turn it off. So there is no risk to the equipment and these tests are ideal for almost all electrical items. The issue though is the H&S risk with energising the item.
c) The sub/leakage test is soft as a test, but do remember that soft tests often result in poor standards.
You should only switch to soft once having assessed the potential risk to the equipment or persons.
We start hard by default and then we switch to soft, well we're supposed to. Unfortunatley many instruments (battery ones for example) are made with soft tests only. These should only be used on rare occasions where the equipment requires it, but they are cheap and so manufacturers sell them to the masses.
Test equipment manufacturers are very much part responsible for the poor practices in this industry.
3 - Well with the hard test the key is to not be in series with the test current. If you hold the end of the test lead with say one hand and then touch the exposed metal work of the appliance with the other, then unless the instrument has a low current pre-cursor checking facility then it is likely you will get a tickle. I used to a lot with an old Robin instrument when my boss replaced the crocodile clip with a paperclips.
If you touch the metalwork whilst doing the test (which is ill-advised, but will happen nearly everyday) then you'll be safe if the test lead is offering the least resistive pathway for the testing current.
I hope some if this is useful.
Also I have already written a full advanced PAT series for the channel, just waiting for the old man to return one of my testers and I'll get cracking.👍
Hello I was wondering. If an employee is asked to do a visual inspection test of equipment and then is told to stick a regular extricate safety test sticker on is that addiwuate? Shouldn't a visual inspection only sticker be used instead?
Thank you
It depends on the actions dictated by the duty holder. If the visual inspection is limited to class II equipment in say an office environment, then this may be considered all that is necessary.
Class I items will require more inspections and subsequent testing in all areas that they are used, and so the green sticker would only be acceptable if the interval from the last inspection is considered adequate for a visual inspection only in this instance.
@@SparkyNinja to me "VISUAL INSPECTION" means UNTESTED
Lol well I looked at those holes and they all look the same to my eyes expect you really needed to be there. But glad you spotted them.. doing my 2377 next month and what I am really concerned about is FELV SELV PELV and ELV are these all just your basic "power supplies" for all these modern gadgets?
No one is demonstrating the curved balls in this.