Why DCI’s High Tuition Fees Need to Stop
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- Опубліковано 17 січ 2024
- It's expensive dawg. In this video I break down the high tour fees that we are seeing being asked my the majority of drum corps now days. Hopefully it helps others realize what kind of situation the activity is moving towards.
One thing right now I forgot to add to that budget was the flight home from Indianapolis. As of writing this comment the price to fly out of IND to LAX on the Sunday after finals is $253 (Cheapest flight I could find). The price will likely go up as tour comes closer. The airlines are aware of DCI finals and up their prices accordingly!
I feel bad for kids today. I marched a top 12 corps in the early 90s for $500.
The prices hurt. To afford marching, I worked 70 hours a week as a 16 year old over the summer. 3 jobs, all minimum wage, all my own funding got me to march my first year. Camp fees are often upwards of 200 (currently, mine are 185 a camp) and tuition is an ever rising factor, with mine rising over 200 this year. There's also corps jacket costs, mouthpiece costs, jersey costs, shoes costs, so much of it just compiles to feel like an overwhelming amount. I personally aim for $6k a year (I only allow myself 200 for spending money throughout the summer, for food and merch), but even that aim is likely to have to go up.
Teching has become one of the biggest saving graces for me and many friends I have that march. The DCI experience practically guarantees a teching job at a local hs (even as a college freshman) and can cover up to a third or so of your tuition, without feeling too much like work. I'm not a music major, so this is the best I get as far as educating.
It's incredibly difficult to afford. Yet there are consistently members who will blow hundreds of dollars at a buc-ees just to say they did, not grasping the concept of money. Unless there is radical change in the way the summer functions, there is no safety in the longevity of this activity. We'll see what happens :(
how do you work 10 hours a day as a high schooler-
@@ivyart3737He worked in the summer
I remember when I wanted to audition for Crown their tuition fees were ~$2000. I thought THAT was insane back then, but thought it was something I could maybe do one day.
Turns out, I couldn't. The fees just kept going up and up and what was barely feasible for me then became a pipe dream. I never was able to march because of these fees. I can't even march DCA at this point, no corps are close to me and I can't make a 300+ mile trip every weekend during the summer. I fully believe I could have made a world class corps, but I would have been more than happy marching mostly anywhere that was close enough to not have to fly to go to the camps. Fees went up, corps folded, or moved out of my region. Minimum wage in my state is $7.25, even today. Only recently did I start making enough money to pay off a summer of drum corps 12 years ago, and that's basically working full-time at $21/hour. Even then, that won't be a very wise financial decision if I have shit to pay off, like student loans, and food (big fan of eating).
I still have a nagging in the back of my mind that's disappointed I never got to march. Audition fees alone hurt for someone who grew up poor like myself. I don't resent the people who got to march at all, but to say I'm not a little jealous of the difference in hands we were dealt in life wouldn't be true.
You deserved better
As a non music major, price is the main reason why I probably won’t be able to do drum corps. Not only am I having to spend upwards of $5,000, but I’m also losing out on all of the money I could be making while working over that same summer. It’s around a $7,500 swing in my bank account. It’s absurd!
In my opinion the fees will never go down unless corps stop doing a national tour, which is the draw to do the activity for a good bit of the membership. It’s about $73000 per bus to hire the coach and the driver for a about a month and a half of tour. Unsure if that includes gas. Also most staff members are getting paid somewhere in the ballpark of $30-100 a day for their work, which isn’t enough to cover most people’s rent for the weeks or month they’re on tour. I don’t think there’s an easy to answer to this. Between members having a fee that’s not possible to pay on their own and most staff not even making close to minimum wage, the only thing left to cut back on is the travel
I have absolutely no clue how it has gotten to this point and still nobody even mentions it. Soooooo many hidden fees. I would love to teach DCI after my years but after seeing how its being treated I have a feeling DCI might not be around for as long as we hope :(
I marched with a small corps in 1983. Tour fee was $300.00. I don't remember camp fees and I traveled for camps but could fly for $30.00. Back then some of the top percussion instructors were making money from endorsements but the majority of the activity was driven by volunteers. Some of the arrangers were probably making some bucks but everyone, even the adults were there because they loved the activity. Now people are cashing in and what really disgusts me is that from the outside it looks like the primary purpose of the activity is to sell instruments. Yes there is a reason you have to include trombones, Yamaha sells trombones. Electronics were big with bands then magically dci needs them. I will get hate for using the phrase, but back in the day drum and bugle corps drove marching arts. That is where the innovation was happening, watch Cadets from 83 compared with the other corps that year. It isn't just how they marched, it was the innovation of teaching the kids how to march like that. Sadly money will kill the activity. Bad news, college is a massive rip-off also.
The price alone is what makes my drum corps dreams stay dreams. I’m only 16 and a sophomore in high school, but I’ve wanted to march for a long time. By the time I graduate, I’m afraid tour costs will have reached the point where it is no longer possible for me to do this. If it wasn’t so expensive, it would be easier to convince my parents to help out. I really don’t understand why it is so much money.
My mom is a single mother working an above minimum wage job, but still not insane payout. about 40 ish thousand a year. We can barely pay for the schools wgi fees so far, and I really want to march independent. The prices are insane and sadly there is zero way no matter what we do that we could swing it in the future. Its sad to know that the activity im so passionate about is virtually locked behind a paywall.
you just vocalized exactly what had been on my mind for the last 3 years. since high school i have had that mental fortitude, the drive, and the skills to march on dci. never had the chance except for one offer from an SCV staff member to fill in for an empty spot towards the the end if the season, but couldn't because i couldn't afford a flight to texas or my own food for free day(s) since i had no job at the time.
I am about to march and i am fortunate enough to now have a full time job that pays well, had for a few months now, started planning for this ahead of time, and already had some money saved up. on top of living with my parents, i only pay for a few bills every other month or so, plus i chose to not go to college so that is a big help.
I have to do so many bends and loops to be able to do this activity and i will try my hardest to march my last two possible seasons before drum corps as we've known it for 51 years dissolves. this has been my dream since i was in middle school in 2016.
thank you for putting this issue on blast.
This is not even mentioning the practice time members need to put in outside of their work and school to prep for the season like realistically some people just can't practice after a certain time and there's just no time to do work, pre season workouts, school, and practice on a consistent basis while maintaining a schedule like this
Exactly!
1982 tour fees were $250 and 83/84 tour fees were $350/$400 and yes we were DCI Top 12 corps from the east coast area (New England)
My tour fee for 82, 83, and 84 was $400 each year to march the Freelancers. That's about $1000 today. And we didn't have to buy our fare to come home, the buses had to get back to Sacramento so we just endured a very long bus ride back.
@@RocketRay Those long rides at the end of the season built character
$8000 for me sad to see my dreams be shattered, as this my ageout... feel like you have to be extremely 101% perfect in every decision you can to march more than 2 yrs at a top 12...especially if you dont have support, onto bigger and better things ig, ill support the kids that have a chance tho, although im worried to see what the future of $$ unfold...
I always wanted to march DCI, but then real life hit. I couldn’t justify the opportunity cost of not making money throughout all that summer, especially with college and everything life throws at you.
DCI, with all the props, more people in the corps, the addition of every type of electronic equipment one can think of, band instruments, string instruments, and all of the amplification “requirements” has committed institutional suicide. DCI, for the sake of DCI, needs to return to its roots and stop these 11 minute, faux Broadway shows on a football field. This decline has been predictable and preventable. Oh, the kiddos want this and they want that you might say. Well, this is another place where the kiddos need to be told NO!
I marched crest this past summer I scrounged up all my saving and made it through tour only using $250. In my debit card then I had around $60 for washing machine days so laundry and sometimes I’d buy a soda and chips (life hack split the washing machine with a friend or 2 if it’s big enough if you can it saves money)
No I didn’t starve myself I just spent my money carefully. I think one of my rich friends did buy me a meal.
But I think dci will die around my age out my age out is ‘28. I want to march all my years but I doubt it’ll happen
they need to do a BOA model. have more regional competitions. and then send the best 3 or 4 from each region to prelims and finals.
The bigger issue that we have here is not so much a drum corps issue but a societal issue. The reason why tour fees are so high is because of inflation. We talked about it but we never focus on what's the solution for it. We all know that what we used to pay $5 for 10 years ago will not have the same buying power 10 years later. The other issue is that systemically we never teach about income that is made while we are not working. Fact of the matter is if we as a society don't learn about income being made when we're not working then this will always be a problem because inflation will always be here but our job income is fixed and unfortunately may rise but not to the level that beats out inflation every time. You look at the cities who have raised minimum wage, those are the cities that those items from the job that raised the minimum wage are now way more expensive and now relatively the wages are the same. Drum Corps now has to work to become smarter when it comes to understanding more ways of raising money and figuring out disposable income as well to offset the cost of touring so it doesn't always fall upon the members.
The price is the main reason my parents didn't ever want me to audition for the Bluecoats, they weren't going to pay for it and I didn't have a good way to come up with that kind of money. Travel wouldn't have been as expensive since I they're in driving distance, but it's still a limiting factor. They had me focus on jazz instead, which I'm glad they did because I still had a great time and learned a lot. DCA/DCI All-Age and Open Class might be less expensive but they're still a big investment.
Thank you for posting this. Ive been thinking about this topic for a long time. Those 630 hours (more, honestly) are 630 hours that kids like us cannot spend working on being a better musician, spending time with family, working on grades and things that will actually benefit our future. And if you are rich and you get to bypass those 500 hours, you not only a way better shot at your audition but, lets face it, youre probably a way more stuck-up person.
Instead of focusing on the costs to members, consider WHY is costs this much. Don't blame gas prices (for busses) because adjusted for inflation, gas is cheaper now than it was in 1984. Food is more expensive now, but again, adjusted for inflation, it's pretty much in line with 1984 food costs. The marching season is shorter now than in 1984. Fewer shows. Fewer miles driven. Why is it so expensive? I'll tell you why; It's not a modest, mostly volunteer activity anymore. Every top corps got themselves convinced that the best way to win was to pay top $ for a bloated staff, buy 6 5-octave marimbas, an entire sound system, new uniforms designed from scratch every year, and a semi-load of sh!t props littering the field. They acted as if they had no choice. The activity needed to "evolve". People love to donate to and volunteer for organizations that operate on a shoestring for the betterment of youth. It's a lot less enticing to donate to and volunteer for an organization that operates like a glitzy business for the betterment of staff resumes. The bloat that comes from people wanting to be the most cutting edge is killing the activity and everyone under the age of 40 is running around with their fingers stuck in their ears, yelling "Boomer!" over and over again.
The average price of diesel in 1984 was about 82 cents. Adjusted for inflation that price goes up to $2.43. The average price of diesel today is 3.86 cents. For food let’s look at a gallon of milk for example. In 1984 milk was $1.16 a gallon which goes to 3.43 with inflation. Today that gallon of milk costs 4.33. In 1984 most corps weren’t paying thousands just to house at the local rinky dink high school. Today even blue devils cant do move ins in california. In 1984 Corps weren’t paying for high quality medical staff 24/7. In 1984 housing at finals wasn’t so expensive that renting a hotel for the entire corps was the cheapest option. I’m not being dismissive of the points you made because some of them are quite valid. But let’s not pretend that the only reason touring is more expensive now is because of props, staff, and electronics, the things that drum corps traditionalists hate. There are plenty of reasons that things are more expensive now compared to then. So we should be taking in all costs incurred on tour rather than just ones that you don’t like.
@@CJsMusicTrumpet I'll concede, I was thinking of regular gas which was in the $1.20 range in 1984 which translates to $3.45 today, which is about 15% more than I currently pay. But the busses probably use diesel, so, fair point.
You need to try different grocery stores though since I pay $2.79/gallon.
But the broader point is that, combined together, the cost of things today is pretty much just in line with inflation, or about 3x the price of what they were in 1984 (just to pick a random old-timey year). Yet apparently the cost of joining a top-12 corps is more like 10x as much.
That's a problem. People like to reflexively blame inflation. But inflation didn't cause this problem. You wouldn't have made this video if the total costs today were $1,800 (roughly what it might have cost to join a top-12 corps if costs were in line with inflation). You made the video because it was more like $6,000, which is insane.
So there needs to be some real self-reflection about why this is before we lose another couple of legendary corps to self-imposed financial ruin.
With all the work necessary to save, not a lot of time to actually work on becoming a better musician.
Drum corps has always been for rich kids. It’s just a little bit worse now. Me and a buddy from high school tried out for Blue Knights in 1992. He made the quad line, I got cut. The tour fees were $250. He could afford the tour fees, but he couldn’t afford to go 3 months without working.
I eventually made it in the next year and marched 3 summers after that. I can say without a doubt, there were no poor kids in the corps.
Rich kids who can afford private lessons and their own instruments, will continue to find a way to pay whatever corps charge.
all of this effort just to march? Idk man I just don't get how anyone that's focused on school, or their adult life can even FOCUS on dci especially if you're not fortunate enough to have people that can help pay for it/got to pay for it yourself. Marching dca def taught me that you don't need to sell your left kidney just to march and even then, it's still expensive and not do-able for a lot of people. When I was in HS and even freshman year of college I was completely sold on drum corps but after marching a couple of seasons and dealing with being an adult for a few years now I realized aside from the staffs of the corps that actually care for the activity, drum corps just wants your money, and they have no respect for your hard earned cash, time, and effort needed to actually march. That doesn't even include the fact that everything just costs more now so corps HAVE to charge more in that regard (generalizing heavily because I don't feel like typing it lol) which is understandable to a certain extent but I digress.
This activity will surely die if it keeps going in the direction its going
ong bro its my ageout and was hoping to march again but its best i keep my money lmao. Ofc dci offers to see a ton and experience a lot but its def not fun to come back after tour BROKE.
modern dci "drum corps" is a total joke. drum and bugle corps used to be a local non-profit activity sponsored by volunteers. now, dci is the central corporation and dictates everything related to the "drum corps" activity, which in itself no longer exists as something for average kids to do over the summer, now it only exists as something that might be a career advancement opportunity for college students or choreographers and few can afford the costs. drum and bugle corps finals used to be broadcasted live for free on television nationwide. now, if you want to watch anything dci-related you get charged up the a$$ and no way can you watch anything live. it's a dead and still dying activity for a few elitists who even know anything about what drum and bugle corps used to be. the general public has zero interest in the activity. kids spend thousands of dollars to tour, thinking someone will see them perform not realizing there is no real audience for their efforts. really sad what has happened to the activity that i once loved with all my heart, marching in the 70's....... the "summer music games' has become a total joke.
2nd chair all state trumpet player. Straight superior drum major and student conductor. Couldnt afford to even try out. Yeah this video resonates
As someone who just auditioned for Genesis, getting the contract, and seeing the bill, I genuinely don't know if I am going to be able to do it this year, let alone ever. The prices are absolutely insane- (And to think the 2024 tuition cost for Boston Crusaders this year is $6000!!!) [[Yikes]] I've set up a fundraiser already but I don't know too many people who are financially fortunate enough to donate. Even with all of the money I've earned from work, it still will not be enough. I have no idea what I'm going to do.
Bro I'm just a kid working at fucking panera bread trying to march next year. the cost just really fucking hurts. I want to march, I want to do well in school school, I want to do high school marching band, and go to college. it's so fucking enraging. It's what stopped me this year and as someone who loves the activity sometimes I just ask why we can't say fuck the props, new instruments, new uniforms like what can we do to make this more affordable to us. It's just fucked. It's absolutely wild that my techs marched winter and summer seasons that cost less combined then what it takes to march drum corp today.
It’s worth noting, as a Canadian citizen full blooded, I would have to either by return tickets only for flying or take the land border as I’m not admissible on a one way ticket
Im from mexico, and I was willing to do everything necessary to be able to march any corp, only for a year, but after seeing the prices I knew that it would not be possible, I worked hard, but they rejected my visa and when finally they approved me when I was already over the age:( I marched all high school and college but it is not the same, the interest and enthusiasm is very different
you can do a lot with 6,300 bucks man 😭why spend so much on a season when you can use it for more important things in your life that are bound to happen down the road? Thats probably my cold logic speaking though because I know a lot of people would go really far for this activity but 🤷♂
Exactly why I never marched. I had the money, but it felt like such a waste when I could use it for emergencies.
it was cool when I did it, I was 15 and had a bonus year too so I could’ve had 7 seasons and stuck with just one. Looking back it was an overpriced summer camp. Sometimes I wish I could’ve afforded to do it again but whatever, it’s just band
I couldn’t even afford my ageout and my age out was in 2021 when the price of marching was significantly lower just bc of the circumstances of that season
Another point to add is gas going to and from your job to even get the money. And this time is assuming you actually SAVE every penny you get from your job. To even pay comfortably you would have to work months before auditions to have a chance to pay it off in time.
SHEESH DCA/DCIAA IS STARTING TO GET UP THERE IM WITH FUSION AND ITS ALMOST $2000?
My fee my rookie year was 5200 and got priced out for spirit
Mom and dad have the win the lottery so their kid or kids can march drum corps in the future.
Told my Professor (She marched in 03 04 SCV) and she only paid 1500$
I never marched DCI because of the camp fees alone.
0 support from family which means no car, and no work.
WGI was much more approachable at less than half the cost, and possibility to make money AND do school during the season.
WGI led me to an open class 11th place finals finish, and a gold medal championship.
You also didn’t factor in the camp weekends that you can’t work because you are at camp.
Your equation was already broken because you didn't account for taxes. Say, estimate tax on your paycheck is 10% for minimum wage, thats 9 dollars pocketed/hour. Quite frankly, you need to do your research well ahead of time to plan for financing for the dci season. So if you decide in December to audition and you have nothing saved up, wait a year and start investing in your goals.
So, it is time to reduce the number of shows planned for any given year. DCI needs to leave Indianapolis after 2028. All Corps need to attend the competitions together crossing the United States instead of being scattered. All corps should be required to keep a uniform for 10 years. All Props would be banned. DCI would need to work oil companies for sponsorship to reduce gas prices. DCI needs to return to PBS because PBS is a major recruiting tool. The top 6 would shown for Semifinals. Show top 12 DCI Finals in the theater for $40 a ticket.
But at least the uniforms now are ugly as sin, and you pay through the ass to do an activity where it ruins any further career chances because no companies expect you to have spent all your summers doing internships. So paying 8k+ to where fugly customs and ruin your life, to be kicked out at 22, and the range of instruments you're allowed to play are laughingly limited so that if you do music at a professional level, the orchestra just laughs at you that you took this shit seriously. Where do I sign up?
I love the activity, it's facing some "challenges" it's put there itself.
thank you for speaking on this, ive always been a poor kid, and my first intro to the marching arts was my sister getting me to participate in her hs indoor drumline season. i didnt really know how to read or play music well, but i quickly fell in love. This was in 2019 when i was in 7th grade starting out middle school cuz my district doesnt include 6th, we won our first competition exactly 4 years ago the day im writing this-march 6. COVID cancelled it immediately after, and my hs never fully recovered its music program to what it used to be, since they cant seem to keep a teacher. Anyway, we didnt wear uniforms for the first comp, just black clothes, because we as an ensemble hadnt paid enough at that point. It was 500 per person, i had to live with someone after that too because our rent kept getting higher. Now im close to graduating, and have missed out on 5 years i couldve been in the marching arts, and i have no way to ever afford to join independent groups or corps because it took me working part time for almost 9 months to make 5000, im jobless rn cuz fr that shit wasnt worth it, but even if i had the money, i dont think i could get into any audition because of all the years of practice im missing, i cant even sight read that fast. its sad because i know i should give up, but its really the only thing ive ever been able to see myself doing forever :( it sucks, all my hobbies and interests are just rich kid sports at this point, even baking. and its nice to watch headcams, but the entire time i camt help but think of how privledged they are.
oh also not to mention i was at 15.50 an hour, they just barely scheduled me and always sent me home early to cut labor.
Tour fees for non Americans are usually 12,000 USD ish. With conversion rates to the Canadian dollar its about 21,000 CAD. With a Provincial minimum wage of 15$ CAD an hour that's about 1,400 hours worth of work. All of this is not including the costs associated with audition camps.