Per your request! Next week we'll be flying to Rhode Island to interview our old comrad and Exercise Physiologist Evan Peikon to dive even deeper into the science of endurance as it pertains to CrossFit. Stay tuned as we continue down this endurance rabbit hole together!
oh good, 3 hours talking about the NIRS and oxygen kinetics that have jack shizz to do with CF. It's a gradient, it moves on a gradient, then it desaturates. Put on a Rogan pod and bike for a slow 90. boom Zone 2 done, capillaries everywhere.
The fact you guys don’t charge for this information is awesome! Just trying to give the people the tools they need to improve and improve the community as a whole, it’s so awesome. Keep the podcasts coming!
Thank you for this video and ep 135. These were incredibly informative. I'm not likely your target audience (52 yo woman, non-athletic, overweight). I've been doing CrossFit for 2 years now, 3 to 5 days per week. Upper body is much stronger, but my cardio respiratory conditioning isn't improving much. I can't run a mile to save my life! I'm sore ALL THE TIME! I joke that I've never felt less functional in my life. I do no Zone 2 training of any kind and this information (and the information on muscle endurance) just put a lot of pieces in place for me! I've followed competitive CrossFit for years and watch all the TTT videos. Love you guys and gals!
Z2 will change all that! What’s great is that you don’t need much of it, you just need to do it for long enough to feel the benefits (8-10weeks usually).
True zone 2 is supposed to be nearly ‘free’ in terms of fatigue because the intensity is supposed to REALLY low. It is supposed to feel super easy. That’s how the best performers in endurance events build their capacity. They are able to put a TON of volume because it is so low intensity. Now of course if you are not yet adapted in terms of soft tissues, muscles, tendons, cartilage, bones to running for example, even zone 2 will cause some issue on that department so like always progressive! Or you can use modalities that have low impact (swimming, biking). I repeat again : zone 2 must feel easy. The nose breathing tip is a very good way of calibrating. And if in running for example you need to walk to be in zone 2, please do so. Eliud Kipchoge who is able to run a 2h marathon do some of his zone 2 at a 6’/km pace. That kind of tells you how slow you should be :)
@@jmul7445 This is all life changing information for me. I always thought walking was an inefficient way to get fit. So, i hit the CrossFit gym 4 or 5 days a week for 2 years and pretty much nothing else. Am i getting stronger? Yes. Am I getting fitter? Only marginally. For the amount of effort put into those CrossFit workouts, i expected a lot more. My zone 2 is literally a quickish stroll in the park! Lol. Looking forward to updating this in a few months with progress notes.
I wasn’t the fastest at box jump overs in one of my last comps, but I worked on being efficient while everyone else was sloppily jumping all over the place, and it was a huge advantage.
As long as you can recover from the total volume of training, you can add quite a bit of Z2 to your week even if you’re focusing on your strength development. A CrossFit athlete I work with just finished a 12-week weightlifting cycle, he also ran a 12wk bike program in parallel (3-4 sessions/wk, including 1-2 hard bike sessions per week). PB in both, everything moved up significantly. We worry too much about interference when really we just need to train those different qualities in a smart and coherent way, together! And to answer you directly, you can safely start with 2h/wk of low intensity training (2x30’ + 1x1h for example) and build from there 💪
I am 52 yo and run 65 miles a week and am weak and can’t lift heavy things, thank god! I can’t imagine carrying around all that muscle while doing cardio.
Definitely looking for some guidance on local muscular endurance for quads - my legs blow up so fast on any weighted squats (air squats are fine) but also trying to build my strength right now! The 6/12/24 split sounds like a good one!
Start with Z2 and sprinkle in Z3 work. "Tempo" work as the endurance folks call it. Honestly the best way to build fatigue resistance. These sessions start out easy (2-3x10’ at RPE5) but end up being long and HARD (3x20’ RPE7) after a standard progression. They do wonders for muscular endurance though
He’s referring to zone-2 and zone-3 training here. Both would be good strategies for building local endurance, especially coupled with some specific local muscular endurance work in the movements you want to improve.
I’d say it depends on your current fitness level. I’ve seen folks get a substantial boost in recovery capacity from Z2 work, which directly impacted their strength work in a positive way. They can train more/recover better and they assimilate the strength volume better. I have yet to see someone who gets weaker by doing Z2. Usually it’s the opposite (as long as you train the strength/WL obviously)
Hey guys! Average/intermediate athlete here. Is it better to do zone 2 work before or after the main CrossFit session?? Obvs it’s not ideal to do both back to back and there would be some cross interference, but from a physiological pov, and if we are prioritizing building a good aerobic base, do you think it would it be better to do the long steady state endurance sesh before or after strength/WOD/gymnastics etc? Thanks :))
If you need a good warm up (winter), before is great. If not, after is fine too. I usually recommend 20-30’ pre OR post session depending on need and preference. If you can get 1x1h in your week of dedicated Z2 that’s a + too 👍
You mentioned 2x60 min sessions, and 4x30 min sessions, what about 1x90 minute session per week? Of course there is going to be some benefit as opposed to doing nothing, but is there a huge discrepancy in results in one session versus two or three, even if the total time is roughly the same? Like, is it more dose or frequency dependent?
How about 5 rounds for time of 50 dubs and 16 dumbbell snatches at 50lb done in under 8 minutes and never going higher than zone 2? Or the HR staying under zone 2 during Fran, another faster workout. Is the heart not warmed up enough?
I answer why mixed work is not the same as single modality in this podcast. It’s not “bad” training - it’s just not developing the same thing that continuous single-modality work is.
It misses the benefit of building capillary and mitochondrial density - basically the stamina benefits of longer zone-2 Not saying it’s bad, just misses that aspect.
What about to take everything from both worlds ? For example work not in zone 2 but in zone 3 and do regular CrossFit workout. Because zone 3 more attachable to high intensity, but still have benefits from zone 2 because heart still contracts fully. Just step by step increases time in zone 3 and not until burn and pump, I think that’s gonna be more time efficient and still useful for heart it’s like a moving thresholds gradually up, and still take benefits from zone 2. I think just pure zone 2 is too time consuming and not so rewarding in results compare with light zone 3.
Nothing wrong with zone-3 work. HOWEVER, most CF workouts fall between zone-3 and 4 with some bleeding into 5 (very individually dependent)… so adding more volume of zone-3 work on top of that doesn’t make a ton do sense for the avg CF competitor. In my experience working with athletes from the QF to Games level spending a solid 2-3mo chunk of time building a zone-2 foundation is a great way to develop endurance during the off-season…then focus on maintaining it during the competitive season.
In my experience, CrossFit coaches have a ln unconcious bias toward their atheletes "walking around fitness" meaning that because tbey work with a ton of natural athletes, theyre used to beinf able to focus on apexific movements or strength and the base level of fitness being ok. But i don't think that principle applies to the general population who is trying to bevome competitive, i think gen pop needs an endiramce base.
You’re right, everyone needs an endurance base. The problem, though, is crossfit demands athletes be strong enough to do a variety of skills. So even if the person has a big endurance base, if they aren’t strong enough to do those movements they are automatically bottlenecked.
Per your request! Next week we'll be flying to Rhode Island to interview our old comrad and Exercise Physiologist Evan Peikon to dive even deeper into the science of endurance as it pertains to CrossFit. Stay tuned as we continue down this endurance rabbit hole together!
oh good, 3 hours talking about the NIRS and oxygen kinetics that have jack shizz to do with CF. It's a gradient, it moves on a gradient, then it desaturates. Put on a Rogan pod and bike for a slow 90. boom Zone 2 done, capillaries everywhere.
Let’s gooo Evan 🥰
@@BananaDanceMan😂 do I have your permission to use this as that episodes UA-cam description?
@@CTPCAM i'd be a little disappointed in you don't.
Ask about his new device!!
"it's entirely possible that the limitation you feel isn't necessarily the limitation you actually have". SO IMPORTANT
The fact you guys don’t charge for this information is awesome! Just trying to give the people the tools they need to improve and improve the community as a whole, it’s so awesome. Keep the podcasts coming!
Listening to this as I’m doing a 40 min zone 2 work on the assault bike is goals. Love learning from the TTT podcast. Keep putting out this content!
Thank you for this video and ep 135. These were incredibly informative. I'm not likely your target audience (52 yo woman, non-athletic, overweight). I've been doing CrossFit for 2 years now, 3 to 5 days per week. Upper body is much stronger, but my cardio respiratory conditioning isn't improving much. I can't run a mile to save my life! I'm sore ALL THE TIME! I joke that I've never felt less functional in my life. I do no Zone 2 training of any kind and this information (and the information on muscle endurance) just put a lot of pieces in place for me! I've followed competitive CrossFit for years and watch all the TTT videos. Love you guys and gals!
Z2 will change all that! What’s great is that you don’t need much of it, you just need to do it for long enough to feel the benefits (8-10weeks usually).
@@Upsidestrength Would you recommend reducing the CrossFit classes in the week while i focus more on Z2 training, or in addition?
Should be able to do both assuming it’s not a strain on your time!
True zone 2 is supposed to be nearly ‘free’ in terms of fatigue because the intensity is supposed to REALLY low. It is supposed to feel super easy. That’s how the best performers in endurance events build their capacity. They are able to put a TON of volume because it is so low intensity. Now of course if you are not yet adapted in terms of soft tissues, muscles, tendons, cartilage, bones to running for example, even zone 2 will cause some issue on that department so like always progressive! Or you can use modalities that have low impact (swimming, biking).
I repeat again : zone 2 must feel easy. The nose breathing tip is a very good way of calibrating. And if in running for example you need to walk to be in zone 2, please do so. Eliud Kipchoge who is able to run a 2h marathon do some of his zone 2 at a 6’/km pace. That kind of tells you how slow you should be :)
@@jmul7445 This is all life changing information for me. I always thought walking was an inefficient way to get fit. So, i hit the CrossFit gym 4 or 5 days a week for 2 years and pretty much nothing else. Am i getting stronger? Yes. Am I getting fitter? Only marginally. For the amount of effort put into those CrossFit workouts, i expected a lot more. My zone 2 is literally a quickish stroll in the park! Lol. Looking forward to updating this in a few months with progress notes.
10 years of CrossFit and feeling like I’m suffocating in metcons is exactly how I would describe myself also!
Some of the other top CrossFit “training camps” should listen to this podcast.
Box jump over step downs showed me the impact of movement efficiency more than anything.
I wasn’t the fastest at box jump overs in one of my last comps, but I worked on being efficient while everyone else was sloppily jumping all over the place, and it was a huge advantage.
This made my exercise physiologist brain so happy 🫶🏼
I’m totally down with movement efficiency discussions. Every time I dial in technique, I move faster for longer 👍🏼
this is soooooo good! thanks for this... I'm taking ALL the notes!!
How would you incorporate the zone 2 training while also doing a strength biased program?? Once a week or twice a week maybe.?
As long as you can recover from the total volume of training, you can add quite a bit of Z2 to your week even if you’re focusing on your strength development.
A CrossFit athlete I work with just finished a 12-week weightlifting cycle, he also ran a 12wk bike program in parallel (3-4 sessions/wk, including 1-2 hard bike sessions per week). PB in both, everything moved up significantly.
We worry too much about interference when really we just need to train those different qualities in a smart and coherent way, together!
And to answer you directly, you can safely start with 2h/wk of low intensity training (2x30’ + 1x1h for example) and build from there 💪
@@Upsidestrength that’s awesome!!! Thank you so much!! Will do!
I am 52 yo and run 65 miles a week and am weak and can’t lift heavy things, thank god! I can’t imagine carrying around all that muscle while doing cardio.
I really hope the strength podcast is coming next.
Definitely looking for some guidance on local muscular endurance for quads - my legs blow up so fast on any weighted squats (air squats are fine) but also trying to build my strength right now! The 6/12/24 split sounds like a good one!
Start with Z2 and sprinkle in Z3 work. "Tempo" work as the endurance folks call it. Honestly the best way to build fatigue resistance. These sessions start out easy (2-3x10’ at RPE5) but end up being long and HARD (3x20’ RPE7) after a standard progression. They do wonders for muscular endurance though
@@Upsidestrength wait what's z2/3?? Would love a reference link if you had one to share! Thanks for taking the time to reply 😊
He’s referring to zone-2 and zone-3 training here.
Both would be good strategies for building local endurance, especially coupled with some specific local muscular endurance work in the movements you want to improve.
laughing harder than i should with the hell of thrusters thing 😂
the strength more I really hope 💪💪💪💪
That's a good question daniel vargas. Does zone 2 training take away from maximizing strength in a strength bias program.
I’d say it depends on your current fitness level. I’ve seen folks get a substantial boost in recovery capacity from Z2 work, which directly impacted their strength work in a positive way. They can train more/recover better and they assimilate the strength volume better. I have yet to see someone who gets weaker by doing Z2. Usually it’s the opposite (as long as you train the strength/WL obviously)
I’m the person that needs to get stronger… or as Brannen says has the “lowest hanging fruit”. Can you do a strength one of these???
Well I should’ve just watched 2 more mins and I would’ve gotten the answer😂
Ha! And yes we will
35lbs army standard for a sub-3hr 12 mile ruck, water weight not included. Some selections have a 55lb dry standard
Yep! We are going to do a 35lb standard for ours (dry weight). We are going to post some info on this soon if you want to join.
Hey guys! Average/intermediate athlete here. Is it better to do zone 2 work before or after the main CrossFit session?? Obvs it’s not ideal to do both back to back and there would be some cross interference, but from a physiological pov, and if we are prioritizing building a good aerobic base, do you think it would it be better to do the long steady state endurance sesh before or after strength/WOD/gymnastics etc? Thanks :))
If you need a good warm up (winter), before is great. If not, after is fine too. I usually recommend 20-30’ pre OR post session depending on need and preference. If you can get 1x1h in your week of dedicated Z2 that’s a + too 👍
This is excellent advice here.
@@Upsidestrength Thank you! 😁 love your content too!
How much do you think having asthma affects any zone training?
Did you guys actually say how to test max HR? I missed it if you did, please let me know :)
You mentioned 2x60 min sessions, and 4x30 min sessions, what about 1x90 minute session per week? Of course there is going to be some benefit as opposed to doing nothing, but is there a huge discrepancy in results in one session versus two or three, even if the total time is roughly the same? Like, is it more dose or frequency dependent?
How about 5 rounds for time of 50 dubs and 16 dumbbell snatches at 50lb done in under 8 minutes and never going higher than zone 2? Or the HR staying under zone 2 during Fran, another faster workout. Is the heart not warmed up enough?
I answer why mixed work is not the same as single modality in this podcast.
It’s not “bad” training - it’s just not developing the same thing that continuous single-modality work is.
I like the topics and info, but who has time for an 1:15 podcast these days?
Do you already know where the Games will be moving to? And, if so, will you tell us or are you waiting to release that information?
Hi what if I change machines every 10 Minutes. That's a lot easier in mind and also no muscle fatigue.
It misses the benefit of building capillary and mitochondrial density - basically the stamina benefits of longer zone-2
Not saying it’s bad, just misses that aspect.
Zone 2….. So hot right now
What about to take everything from both worlds ? For example work not in zone 2 but in zone 3 and do regular CrossFit workout. Because zone 3 more attachable to high intensity, but still have benefits from zone 2 because heart still contracts fully. Just step by step increases time in zone 3 and not until burn and pump, I think that’s gonna be more time efficient and still useful for heart it’s like a moving thresholds gradually up, and still take benefits from zone 2.
I think just pure zone 2 is too time consuming and not so rewarding in results compare with light zone 3.
Nothing wrong with zone-3 work. HOWEVER, most CF workouts fall between zone-3 and 4 with some bleeding into 5 (very individually dependent)… so adding more volume of zone-3 work on top of that doesn’t make a ton do sense for the avg CF competitor.
In my experience working with athletes from the QF to Games level spending a solid 2-3mo chunk of time building a zone-2 foundation is a great way to develop endurance during the off-season…then focus on maintaining it during the competitive season.
@@kyleruth5145 ok, but what it train not in pure zone 3, but in intense zone 2 and light zone 3, something between them?
At 50:45 Kyle mentions... I cannot figure out the spelling... "George Hamison"... ? Help 😊 A French man, I know...
It can't be like "Joël Jamieson", could be... ?
Joel Jamison is the man! Has a great book called Complete Conditioning for MMA. Does a great job of breaking down zones and styles do conditioning.
@@kyleruth5145 terrific foloow-up ;-) Thanks mate !
Strength next ?
Lifters doing cardio is fun to watch, poor babies.
Brannen's arms are fucking massive
Seconded been working toward Dorman level triceps for years.
The sauna will put you in zone 2 with no wear and tear
In my experience, CrossFit coaches have a ln unconcious bias toward their atheletes "walking around fitness" meaning that because tbey work with a ton of natural athletes, theyre used to beinf able to focus on apexific movements or strength and the base level of fitness being ok. But i don't think that principle applies to the general population who is trying to bevome competitive, i think gen pop needs an endiramce base.
100% agree with this. It’s a confirmation bias thing.
You’re right, everyone needs an endurance base. The problem, though, is crossfit demands athletes be strong enough to do a variety of skills. So even if the person has a big endurance base, if they aren’t strong enough to do those movements they are automatically bottlenecked.