RESOLVED! Since at least two of us with the problem have had a firmware update and both of us came up with normal PV this morning, I’m calling this issue resolved. I want to that all of you who weighed in and helped via the comments, as well as the Tech support at SignatureSolar and EG4. They were great. I can go back to tweaking and adding to my solar arrays. Thank you all!
@@electromechanicalstuff2602 I’m actually a big fan of this inverter. I was going to get the 6000XP but was delayed. When this came out, I was happy for the delay. It’s been great other than this one glitch which they resolved.
It does look like there's a problem but the issue is compounded by a lack of understanding of PV voltages. A PV string at its open-circuit voltage (Voc) produces no current, so the only time you would ever see the PV strings at that voltage would be if the system is not pulling power from it. The initial voltage you saw ... the 120V, is the MPPT operating at its minimum operating voltage. Given that the VOC is in the 400 voltage range, and the battery voltage is low (but the battery also seems to be indicating a full or nearly full charge on the left)... 120V is just plain wrong. The voltage definitely should be higher. You would only see 120V at the very start of the day or the very end of the day in low-light conditions. The second set of voltages you saw in the 350V range after you cycled the PV disconnect are closer to what I would expect a producing system. The system was probably operating normally and it must have been fairly cloudy for it to produce so little. In the late afternoon with shading or low sun angle, the maximum power point voltage will drop steadily until the MPPT hits its minimum (120V), at which point it will produce as much as it can until power goes to zero. Also in situations where there is a lot of shading on the panels, it is possible for the open-circuit voltage to be relatively high (400V+), but for the panels to not be able to produce much power and in this situation the MPPT might pull the voltage down to 120V. But that doesn't seem likely in this case since you got more generation when you cycled the disconnect. It is a bit concerning that the battery indicator on the left is showing a full battery but the battery voltage is sitting at 51.0V (ish). 51.0V with a load of only 1000W. That is not even close to being a full battery. So I would check the battery configuration parameters to make sure you have it configured with the proper amp-hour capacity, and that you have configured the charging parameters properly. It could be that the system is confused due to a configuration mistake. If the system believes the SOC is near 100%, or the battery voltage configuration parameters are not set properly, it might be ratcheting back out of confusion. Typically for a 48V LiFePO4 system you want the charge target to be 56.8V, the absorption time to be between 30 minutes and 2 hours, and the float voltage to be between 53.6V and 54.0V. You didn't supply any information on outside conditions or shading of the panels at the time of the readings, the size or number of panels, or the string configuration. -Matt
@@junkerzn7312 Thank you Matt. You have expanded my understanding of what to expect from PV voltage. Basically you’re saying that, once the load is applied by the inverter I can expect to see a drop in voltage. The relationship to the battery is also helpful to understand. I know that at least 2 of us with this 120V problem are using LiFePo4 batteries that are not on EG4’s list and consequently have to use the “Lead-Acid” setting. That means that the only way the inverter can sense the SOC is by voltage. I have made several adjustments to my battery charge settings since I posted the video. Currently my charge target is 56.4V, the float voltage is 54V, the equalization voltage is 57.6, and my equalization time (is that the same as “absorption time”?) is set to zero.
@@JoeHaynie Equalization is different from Absorption. Equalization is a mechanism that is only applicable to lead-acid batteries where the battery voltage is intentionally increased beyond normal specs for a number of hours to remove sulfate buildup on the battery plates. You always want equalization disabled for lithium. Absorption is basically just holding (typically) the charge target voltage for a period of time or while waiting for the charge current to drop off. For LiFePO4 you want to simply hold the charge target for a fixed period of time between 30 minutes and 2 hours and disable any current-tail function. This gives the battery time to internally balance its cells. Unfortunately I don't have an EG4 so I'm not up on its specific configuration that might lead to the MPPT issue. It does sound like a firmware issue to me, though, but it is possible that some configuration parameter is tickling the software bug. -Matt
@@JoeHaynie Do not use Lead Acid setting with Lifepo batteries, you will destroy them in short order. Even if you can not get the bms to talk to the inverter you can at least tell the inverter voltages for discharge amd full voltages, Lifepo batteries have very different (very flat) charge and discharge curve with extream spikes at eaither end. Safely you can tell the inverters charger to start charging at 50V and stop charging at 55.2V. I built my 5x 15kwh batteries from diy kits and they use JK bms which I have to use a work around to get basic Can coms to my 18KPV, but when I do my 2-3 times a year top balance I change the charge controller in the inverter to voltage as described above. On a side not you might want to look at the Off Grid Garage channel, yes Andy uses victron equipment but goes into deep details as to how a healthy system is supposed to work.
@@JoeHaynie Looks like the firmware update also fixed my 12000xp. Question for you. Your battery is on lead acid? What is your pv voltage max charge and float? Thanks.
@@sleeper7 My setting is “Lead Acid” because I have a LiFePO battery bank that doesn’t offer a communication cable. SignatureSolar suggested I use a Charge Voltage of 58V and Float of 54V. However, my battery vendor (Eco-Worthy) finally responded to my email, and they said to use 60V for both of those (they claim that the “Float” voltage concept doesn’t apply to LiFePo batteries, but that if I have to put a value to make it the same as the Charge amount). That seems high to me so I’m running their recommendation past the SignatureSolar guy.
There is a mppt selection in the configuration menu that bridges the two mppt positive inputs or you may select separate strings for PV1 and PV2. The two negative inputs are (summed) bonded above the disconnect switch to one input terminal on the EG4 inverter circuit board.
One alteration I did have to do on my 6000XP was the LOAD Output L1 and L2 were swapped from what the display and the web monitor were displaying. Once corrected i traced out phase differentials and also determined that the GRID and GEN Inputs also require swapping the wires on the top side of the Circuit Breakers. Results were Now L1 is Black wire and L2 is Red wire. Ignore the factory wire labels on their wires.
@@Time-Trvlr Thanks. Same issue with me initially. I discovered I had reversed the polarity on one of the strings. The inverter essentially ignored that string until I corrected it.
The mppt is getting stuck just like my old voltronic mx2 you have to turn the breaker off then on. This happened to me on rainy 🌧 weather. But the 18kpv does not have this issue.
My Sirius Panels have a VOC (Voltage Open Circuit) of 37V and a VMP (Maximum Power Voltage) of 31V, My strings are 10 panels each so I usually see a operating voltage 307-315 while under load. So what you should be seeing 11X the VMP of your panels. I have a 18KPV which has a max pv voltage per string of 550V and a minimum of 150V. I do not know what the max and min voltages are of the 12000XP, but I wonder if you are bouncing off the maximum causing the MPPT to go into a "safe" mode. As other have said and I have personally delt with EG4 has pretty good customer service and when I called them before purchasing my inverter to get some questions answered by tech support, not sales, I was able to get thru to them in about 30 minutes.
@@paulsmalser3261 Several of us have looked for a max or min voltage setting on the 12000XP and are not finding them. May be hidden within the firmware. I agree, the SignatureSolar techs have been great. They just seem a bits stumped on this one.
@JoeHaynie Took one google search to find the spec sheet for tge 12000XP, Min 100volts , Max 480volts, nominal 120-385 volts. And I called EG4 directly, not signature solar.
@ have you tried talking to the techs at Signature Solar to see if this is a known problem and if there is a fix? I have the EG4 3000 watt inverters, 4 in parallel and never had a problem at all in six months, but I see people on UA-cam having all kinds of different problems with the higher EG4 6kw, 8kw and 12kw inverters. Not sure why there are so many with problems. In hope Signature Solar techs can help you figure it out. Just as a side note, my EG4 3000 watt inverters will only charge at max 25 amps each. I have been able to go up to 3400 watts input on each inverter and 3200 watts output on each inverter with no problems.
@@tjmooney4181 Good question. It seems like it is completely unrelated to the batteries. They have been at different states of charge when it has occurred. The common denominator has been that it happens first thing in the morning after the PV has been dormant all night.
@JoeHaynie okay I'm stumped at what could cause this issue as I've never seen pv voltage get regulated 🤔 very curious what it is and will keep checking this for resolution 🤞
@@randya9143 Interesting. Isn’t that another brand-new device from EG4. Maybe there are some related burn-in issues that will require firmware updates.
Looks to me battery is full and it is limiting the input voltage as it is solar first try putting a large load on it to see if the solar production goes up.
@@offgridwanabe That’s an interesting thought. I’ve made several changes in the charge settings for the batteries. I’ll have to watch to see if that helps resolve the issue. I won’t know until tomorrow morning because the inverter has been reset with configuration changes and firmware updates every day this week.
The reason you're not seeing 4xx volts when you turn PV back on is just loading. The inverter is using it, amps go up and voltage drops. That's normal. The 120V thing though, yeah. Not normal.
I have the same issue and the watts do not go up as normal. It is not simply just loading, I think it is a balance between MPPT and what the solar array can put out. Less noticeable in the morning because of the low total input. I reset mine and on a nice bright sunny day, the watts at least double after I reset the breaker or PV switch on the unit.
I hope you do a follow up. 120 does seem real low with the volts at 430 with no load. I hope SS puts an effort into resolution. I would record all your settings no matter how trivial this could be an isolated issue or a deep software flaw as it’s relatively new hardware.
Same here. I posted this question over on the DIY Solar Power Platform site. We’ll see if someone has an answer. BTW, I noticed someone on that site had posted a similar thing about the EG4 6000XP about a month ago. I’ll post here if I solve it. Let me know if you figure it out.
@@JoeHaynie Signature solar emailed me back earlier today. They are aware of the issue, and said they may have a possible fix, however it sounds like I may have missed them today. But it sounds like we are not the only ones, and this will be looked at closer and hopefully quickly. I have seen other similar things on other EG4's as well when doing some basic searches. I will let you know as well here most likely Monday if I talk to them then.
@@TravisAviation Thanks for the update. It’s comforting in a way to know that we’re not unique. Maybe it will be fixed with a software update. Let me know what you learn and I’ll do the same.
I'm no expert, but it looks like the MPPT algorithm has a hickup in its programming. It seems like the algorithm has a problem with gradually increasing array voltage and needs to be 'jump started' by disconnecting the array for a short amount of time, to see the full array voltage. In my laymans opinion this should be fixable with a firmware update.
That’s what we’re hoping. There are apparently others out there with the same issue so it may just be some of the startup challenges of a new device. Would love to see a firmware fix solve it.
Just another reason why you should stay away from low cost, Chinese made, high frequency, transformerless inverters and purchase a low frequency, transformer based inverter charger instead.
@@RuSomeKindaIdiot Actually, they asked me to send them a video of the problem and the most efficient way was via UA-cam and others started commenting on it. However, so far I haven’t heard back from SignatureSolar on a solution or a status.
RESOLVED! Since at least two of us with the problem have had a firmware update and both of us came up with normal PV this morning, I’m calling this issue resolved. I want to that all of you who weighed in and helped via the comments, as well as the Tech support at SignatureSolar and EG4. They were great. I can go back to tweaking and adding to my solar arrays. Thank you all!
Thanks for the update. I'm looking at buying this inverter soon. Good to know no serious issues found yet
@@electromechanicalstuff2602 I’m actually a big fan of this inverter. I was going to get the 6000XP but was delayed. When this came out, I was happy for the delay. It’s been great other than this one glitch which they resolved.
It does look like there's a problem but the issue is compounded by a lack of understanding of PV voltages. A PV string at its open-circuit voltage (Voc) produces no current, so the only time you would ever see the PV strings at that voltage would be if the system is not pulling power from it.
The initial voltage you saw ... the 120V, is the MPPT operating at its minimum operating voltage. Given that the VOC is in the 400 voltage range, and the battery voltage is low (but the battery also seems to be indicating a full or nearly full charge on the left)... 120V is just plain wrong. The voltage definitely should be higher. You would only see 120V at the very start of the day or the very end of the day in low-light conditions.
The second set of voltages you saw in the 350V range after you cycled the PV disconnect are closer to what I would expect a producing system. The system was probably operating normally and it must have been fairly cloudy for it to produce so little.
In the late afternoon with shading or low sun angle, the maximum power point voltage will drop steadily until the MPPT hits its minimum (120V), at which point it will produce as much as it can until power goes to zero. Also in situations where there is a lot of shading on the panels, it is possible for the open-circuit voltage to be relatively high (400V+), but for the panels to not be able to produce much power and in this situation the MPPT might pull the voltage down to 120V. But that doesn't seem likely in this case since you got more generation when you cycled the disconnect.
It is a bit concerning that the battery indicator on the left is showing a full battery but the battery voltage is sitting at 51.0V (ish). 51.0V with a load of only 1000W. That is not even close to being a full battery. So I would check the battery configuration parameters to make sure you have it configured with the proper amp-hour capacity, and that you have configured the charging parameters properly. It could be that the system is confused due to a configuration mistake.
If the system believes the SOC is near 100%, or the battery voltage configuration parameters are not set properly, it might be ratcheting back out of confusion. Typically for a 48V LiFePO4 system you want the charge target to be 56.8V, the absorption time to be between 30 minutes and 2 hours, and the float voltage to be between 53.6V and 54.0V.
You didn't supply any information on outside conditions or shading of the panels at the time of the readings, the size or number of panels, or the string configuration.
-Matt
@@junkerzn7312 Thank you Matt. You have expanded my understanding of what to expect from PV voltage. Basically you’re saying that, once the load is applied by the inverter I can expect to see a drop in voltage. The relationship to the battery is also helpful to understand. I know that at least 2 of us with this 120V problem are using LiFePo4 batteries that are not on EG4’s list and consequently have to use the “Lead-Acid” setting. That means that the only way the inverter can sense the SOC is by voltage. I have made several adjustments to my battery charge settings since I posted the video. Currently my charge target is 56.4V, the float voltage is 54V, the equalization voltage is 57.6, and my equalization time (is that the same as “absorption time”?) is set to zero.
@@JoeHaynie Equalization is different from Absorption. Equalization is a mechanism that is only applicable to lead-acid batteries where the battery voltage is intentionally increased beyond normal specs for a number of hours to remove sulfate buildup on the battery plates. You always want equalization disabled for lithium.
Absorption is basically just holding (typically) the charge target voltage for a period of time or while waiting for the charge current to drop off. For LiFePO4 you want to simply hold the charge target for a fixed period of time between 30 minutes and 2 hours and disable any current-tail function. This gives the battery time to internally balance its cells.
Unfortunately I don't have an EG4 so I'm not up on its specific configuration that might lead to the MPPT issue. It does sound like a firmware issue to me, though, but it is possible that some configuration parameter is tickling the software bug.
-Matt
@@JoeHaynie Do not use Lead Acid setting with Lifepo batteries, you will destroy them in short order. Even if you can not get the bms to talk to the inverter you can at least tell the inverter voltages for discharge amd full voltages, Lifepo batteries have very different (very flat) charge and discharge curve with extream spikes at eaither end. Safely you can tell the inverters charger to start charging at 50V and stop charging at 55.2V. I built my 5x 15kwh batteries from diy kits and they use JK bms which I have to use a work around to get basic Can coms to my 18KPV, but when I do my 2-3 times a year top balance I change the charge controller in the inverter to voltage as described above.
On a side not you might want to look at the Off Grid Garage channel, yes Andy uses victron equipment but goes into deep details as to how a healthy system is supposed to work.
Welcome to the club. Mine is doing the same thing.
@@sleeper7 Sorry to hear it. Have you gotten any feedback yet from your vendor’s tech support?
@@JoeHaynie In contact with whom I bought the inverter from.
@@JoeHaynie Looks like the firmware update also fixed my 12000xp. Question for you. Your battery is on lead acid? What is your pv voltage max charge and float? Thanks.
@@sleeper7 My setting is “Lead Acid” because I have a LiFePO battery bank that doesn’t offer a communication cable. SignatureSolar suggested I use a Charge Voltage of 58V and Float of 54V. However, my battery vendor (Eco-Worthy) finally responded to my email, and they said to use 60V for both of those (they claim that the “Float” voltage concept doesn’t apply to LiFePo batteries, but that if I have to put a value to make it the same as the Charge amount). That seems high to me so I’m running their recommendation past the SignatureSolar guy.
@ I use 58.4V for my Charge Voltage and 54V for my float voltage.
I would recommend reading the manual and setting the configuration preferences. Once completed cycle a shutdown and restart the unit.
@@Time-Trvlr Agreeded, when all else fails, RTFM
There is a mppt selection in the configuration menu that bridges the two mppt positive inputs or you may select separate strings for PV1 and PV2. The two negative inputs are (summed) bonded above the disconnect switch to one input terminal on the EG4 inverter circuit board.
One alteration I did have to do on my 6000XP was the LOAD Output L1 and L2 were swapped from what the display and the web monitor were displaying. Once corrected i traced out phase differentials and also determined that the GRID and GEN Inputs also require swapping the wires on the top side of the Circuit Breakers. Results were Now L1 is Black wire and L2 is Red wire. Ignore the factory wire labels on their wires.
@@Time-Trvlr Thanks. Same issue with me initially. I discovered I had reversed the polarity on one of the strings. The inverter essentially ignored that string until I corrected it.
The mppt is getting stuck just like my old voltronic mx2 you have to turn the breaker off then on. This happened to me on rainy 🌧 weather. But the 18kpv does not have this issue.
Are your batteries full? If so it will limit the PV watt to just the load watt
At least on my 18KPV it will still show full voltage but will limit the watts to just what the load is drawing while my batteries are a 100% SOC.
@@paulsmalser3261 Correct. The limiting is done on the current. The Voltage should remain as is.
My Sirius Panels have a VOC (Voltage Open Circuit) of 37V and a VMP (Maximum Power Voltage) of 31V, My strings are 10 panels each so I usually see a operating voltage 307-315 while under load. So what you should be seeing 11X the VMP of your panels. I have a 18KPV which has a max pv voltage per string of 550V and a minimum of 150V. I do not know what the max and min voltages are of the 12000XP, but I wonder if you are bouncing off the maximum causing the MPPT to go into a "safe" mode. As other have said and I have personally delt with EG4 has pretty good customer service and when I called them before purchasing my inverter to get some questions answered by tech support, not sales, I was able to get thru to them in about 30 minutes.
@@paulsmalser3261 Several of us have looked for a max or min voltage setting on the 12000XP and are not finding them. May be hidden within the firmware. I agree, the SignatureSolar techs have been great. They just seem a bits stumped on this one.
@JoeHaynie Took one google search to find the spec sheet for tge 12000XP, Min 100volts , Max 480volts, nominal 120-385 volts.
And I called EG4 directly, not signature solar.
@@paulsmalser3261it claims 600v which is allot more than 480v.
Is your battery bank completely charged when you are showing 120 volt PV input?
@@diy-solar-guy Probably not because it happens first thing in the morning.
@ have you tried talking to the techs at Signature Solar to see if this is a known problem and if there is a fix? I have the EG4 3000 watt inverters, 4 in parallel and never had a problem at all in six months, but I see people on UA-cam having all kinds of different problems with the higher EG4 6kw, 8kw and 12kw inverters. Not sure why there are so many with problems. In hope Signature Solar techs can help you figure it out. Just as a side note, my EG4 3000 watt inverters will only charge at max 25 amps each. I have been able to go up to 3400 watts input on each inverter and 3200 watts output on each inverter with no problems.
@@diy-solar-guyYes. In fact, I posted this because it was the easiest way to send them the video they requested to show what was happening.
Thanks for sharing, does it happen when batteries are under 95% charged?
@@tjmooney4181 Good question. It seems like it is completely unrelated to the batteries. They have been at different states of charge when it has occurred. The common denominator has been that it happens first thing in the morning after the PV has been dormant all night.
@JoeHaynie okay I'm stumped at what could cause this issue as I've never seen pv voltage get regulated 🤔 very curious what it is and will keep checking this for resolution 🤞
I have to check mine next chance I get but I believe my Flexboss is limiting my PV also.
@@randya9143 Interesting. Isn’t that another brand-new device from EG4. Maybe there are some related burn-in issues that will require firmware updates.
Looks like a problem with the MPPT getting stuck. Hopefully a firmware update can fix it.
Looks to me battery is full and it is limiting the input voltage as it is solar first try putting a large load on it to see if the solar production goes up.
@@offgridwanabe That’s an interesting thought. I’ve made several changes in the charge settings for the batteries. I’ll have to watch to see if that helps resolve the issue. I won’t know until tomorrow morning because the inverter has been reset with configuration changes and firmware updates every day this week.
The reason you're not seeing 4xx volts when you turn PV back on is just loading. The inverter is using it, amps go up and voltage drops. That's normal.
The 120V thing though, yeah. Not normal.
I have the same issue and the watts do not go up as normal. It is not simply just loading, I think it is a balance between MPPT and what the solar array can put out. Less noticeable in the morning because of the low total input. I reset mine and on a nice bright sunny day, the watts at least double after I reset the breaker or PV switch on the unit.
Thanks. Seems like it settles in at around 360V rather than the 430 that’s there. I’ll have to watch it more long-term.
I hope you do a follow up. 120 does seem real low with the volts at 430 with no load. I hope SS puts an effort into resolution. I would record all your settings no matter how trivial this could be an isolated issue or a deep software flaw as it’s relatively new hardware.
I am having the same issue. Only using 1 pv line. Right now signature solar hasn't given me an answer yet.
Same here. I posted this question over on the DIY Solar Power Platform site. We’ll see if someone has an answer. BTW, I noticed someone on that site had posted a similar thing about the EG4 6000XP about a month ago. I’ll post here if I solve it. Let me know if you figure it out.
@@JoeHaynie Signature solar emailed me back earlier today. They are aware of the issue, and said they may have a possible fix, however it sounds like I may have missed them today. But it sounds like we are not the only ones, and this will be looked at closer and hopefully quickly.
I have seen other similar things on other EG4's as well when doing some basic searches.
I will let you know as well here most likely Monday if I talk to them then.
@@TravisAviation Thanks for the update. It’s comforting in a way to know that we’re not unique. Maybe it will be fixed with a software update. Let me know what you learn and I’ll do the same.
I'm no expert, but it looks like the MPPT algorithm has a hickup in its programming. It seems like the algorithm has a problem with gradually increasing array voltage and needs to be 'jump started' by disconnecting the array for a short amount of time, to see the full array voltage.
In my laymans opinion this should be fixable with a firmware update.
That’s what we’re hoping. There are apparently others out there with the same issue so it may just be some of the startup challenges of a new device. Would love to see a firmware fix solve it.
Just another reason why you should stay away from low cost, Chinese made, high frequency, transformerless inverters and purchase a low frequency, transformer based inverter charger instead.
I don't understand. EG4 braggs about it's customer service, so why are you reaching out to UA-camrs?
@@RuSomeKindaIdiot Actually, they asked me to send them a video of the problem and the most efficient way was via UA-cam and others started commenting on it. However, so far I haven’t heard back from SignatureSolar on a solution or a status.