Why is the word "LIMIT" missing on Oregon's "Speed Limit" signs?
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- White regulatory signs need strict uniformity, so police can legally enforce them. So how does Oregon get away with "Speed Limit" signs which are missing a word? And why do they make the signs that way?
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Sources cited:
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"Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices," Federal Highway Administation (2009). mutcd.fhwa.dot...
"Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices," Oregon Dept. of Transportation. www.oregon.gov...
House Bill 3402, 78th Oregon Legislative Assembly (2015)
"Traffic code of Oregon no longer sets speed limit," The News Review, Apr. 4, 1931.
"New speed limits and laws listed," Greater Oregon. Apr. 10, 1931.
"Reckless driver and speed curb urged by Snell," Medford Mail Tribune. Aug. 29, 1937.
"Oregon officials eye basic rule change," The Eugene Guard. Dec. 7, 1953.
"Fixed speed limit given backing at Salem hearing," The Oregon Statesman. Jun. 5, 1958.
"Commission votes to keep basic state speed law," The News-Review. Jul. 3, 1958.
"Speed law has 2 major parts," The Eugene Guard. Oct. 1, 1962.
"Speed limit law not supported," The Capital Journal. May 31, 1967.
"Salem cracking down on speeding buses," The Capital Journal. Sep. 11, 1969.
"To conserve energy on the Nation's highways," Public Law 93-239. Jan. 2, 1974.
"Basic speed rule still in effect, rules state court," The Capital Journal. May 21, 1979.
"Be precise with speed signs," The Lebanon Express. Jan. 28, 1998.
"Boosting speed limit involves more than signs," Albany Democrat Herald. Aug. 14, 2015.
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In Canada, speed limit signs say "MAXIMUM." This is because the word is the same in English and French, so they are bilingual.
Why not use a sign with just a number, like in Europe, much more easy to catch quickly and same for all languages.
@@kebabvlees MUTCD
@@kebabvlees Because there’s minimum speed signs too, for highways.
@@kebabvlees harmonization with the US
@@Banom7a In further harmonization, at least in southern ON, the signed speed limit is a target.
So my sister had an interesting story. In Castle Pines, CO when the main road was under construction, the cops would remove the sign indicating which side of the road cones to drive on, and promptly write tickets for anyone who guessed wrong, replacing the sign before anyone could take a picture of the entrance to the construction site (which had no actual construction going on anymore, mind you). My sister was lucky enough to have gotten a pic before they had replaced it when they got her, and got the ticket, as well as 20 other driver's tickets dismissed and a fine to the police department.
Great cops are really sneeky I a lot of towns
That's the sort of thing to expect when you give a country club police powers.
B….b….b….bullshit
This is why dashcams, those cops would have a HUGE lawsuit from me
I've been told repeatedly by every cop ever that there is no such thing as a ticket quota. Why would a copy do this without a quota? Could it be every cop ever is lying about ticket quotas? I think sooooo
California has a “basic speed law”, too - it says that you can’t drive any faster than road conditions permit, even if the posted speed limit is higher. A favorite question on CA’s written exam quizzes you on it.
Yes so slow down when it is raining or foggy!
I'm pretty sure Washington dc has a "unless otherwise posted" maximum speed for all roads, too. I believe it is 35 mph, but might even be 25 to match the default "residential speed limit".
Similarly, in Hungary, there is "absolute speeding", which is going over the actual speed limit, but there's also "relative speeding", which means going faster than what's considered safe regarding the circumstances you're driving under (for example night or rain). It's something that frequently turns up in tests but it can also get you fined if you're not careful.
every state has that law....
Try the tule fog on CA-99 in the San Joaquin Valley. That's a recipe for driving well below the posted speed limit. (40+ car pileups on this stretch of road is not unheard of.)
I like to think Oregon sees things a little differently. "Speed limit 30" means any speed not faster than 30. But "Speed 30" means you should be going 30, not slower. Don't poke along, keep things moving. :D
All of this is moot.
The cop that pulls you over will have already said you were traveling at a "high rate of speed"...
The derps don't even know that speed *IS* a rate 🤦♂️
@@MadScientist267I'll bet you're a HOOT at parties.
@@elmonteslim2001 You might be satisfied with everyone around you sounding like a complete and total moron.
I'm not. 🤦♂️
Oregon has an average IQ of 70. That's 10 points lower than can handle going to WWII. They don't even require math and reading to graduate high school, they just kick them out. Their Marxist Feminist teachers are unqualified to teach, having IQs below 70 themselves, and the State refuses to fire them.
Except lots of people in Oregon go 5-10 under even when there's no one in front of them, and it really sucks when there's no way to pass them.
I loved the 30 minute documentary this came from and don't mind at all rewatching these snippets. Please do green guidance signs next!
@Matthew Harrup I disagree with you
White Supremacy is embedded in our automotive laws. I'm letting out a secret here, but White people have been instructed not to read that word when they encounter it.
Green guidance? So stupid
Oregon has an average IQ of 70. That's 10 points lower than can handle going to WWII. They don't even require math and reading to graduate high school, they just kick them out. Do you live there?
So strange... I've lived in Oregon most of my life and never noticed that our signs were different... I probably never would have noticed for the rest of life either
Same. I've never noticed either, though even if I did it probably wouldn't occur to me that it's unique to Oregon.
I noticed it almost immediately after crossing the border on I-5 from CA. I always check the speed limits when entering a state amd the sign is noticeable when you're used to seeing "Speed Limit".
@@bobbyheenan4061 Just apparently not vise-versa for us Oregonians! haha. Been to Washington and Nevada myself, never consciously noticed the difference.
@@TheCriminalViolin I admit, I'm kinda weird with how I notice signs. Another quirk are interstate signs. Some states include the state name above the interstate number, others don't. I noticed it constantly driving cross country.
I've lived in Oregon off and on since 2008, and continuously since 2018, and I have *never* noticed a lack of "limit" on white speed signs. I wonder how many "limit"-less signs are left?
The one Oregon sign I can't abide is "right turn permitted without stopping." Yes, it's more efficient than a protected turn lane with a yield sign, but it's just bad road design at best, and dangerous at worst.
Oregon resident here: My Mazda's traffic sign recognition has a heck of a time reading some of the SPEED signs but as you say, they're quickly disappearing.
Throwing out a kinda interesting difference in signage that doesn't really harm anyone, sad
I pay attention when I drive, my eyes see the signs.
@@sendinit6413 Obviously I do too otherwise I wouldn't have noticed the car doesn't see them. 🙄
@Shawn 🏴☠️ Stafford Pretty sure the system he's referring to simply picks up the speed limit of the road you're on, so that the car can yell at you if you're speeding, and display the limit in the little display by your gauges. Pretty handy feature honestly.
Road Guy Rob one of the most underrated channels on UA-cam
The lack of the word "limit" on their signs doesn't bother me much. The speed limit signs that really irritate me are the "END SPEED ZONE" signs. Why don't they say what the limit is rather than only pointing out that it is different than the previous one?
i always just pretend those signs mean that there is no longer a speed limit
Yeah I hate those too but I know what they mean. It means the speed goes back to what it normally is for what type of road it is. If it's a country highway leaving a town it means the speed limit is back to the normal 55 MPH
@@cmmarttiWe have 40 km/h begins and 40 km/h ends (or 30 km/h in some) in school zones here in KW Ontario because it’s understood that once it ends it reverts to 50 km/h. School zones and quiet streets aside it’s also common to exceed the limit by 10 km/h. Driving at the limit dead is so uncommon as to provoke road rage.
Fun fact: in Canada, the speed limit signs don't say "speed limit", but rather "maximum". This has the advantage of being understood by speakers of both co-official languages (English and French).
Sorry officer I thought it was meters per second
I really like Canadian signs with maximum. Thst truly makes it understood.
Vermont has minimums posted.
Fun fact: In California, a speed sign means that the posted speed is a recommended safe speed for road conditions. That means you could go over legally.
But when you see the word, “MAXIMUM”, then you must not go over what is posted.
49 States: Speed Limit
Oregon: ‘I am Speed’
Lol yah tho I feel like Pennsylvania also had the same laws with Oregon cuz I know I seen speed signs before over here since I mostly live here .
But tbh the turnpike over here had no limit it was unlimited so lol
High on speed lol
Those signs mean nothing anyways, if the street isn’t designed accordingly. Here in The Netherlands speeds signs are ‘almost’ redundant since the street design already forces us to drive a certain speed. E.G noisy brick road for a 30km/h zone with tight car lanes, speed bumps and chicanes.
Not Just Bikes had excellent content about those things.
nice you watch him too
Here In Italy you find nonsense limits, like 40km/h on the lane exiting the highway. You should slow down from 120 to 40 in 100m for no reason at all since you can easily drive on the exit lane at 70-80 Km/h.
Nobody respect them of course
Yes, but as Not Just Bikes also points out, the car lobbyists had a much firmer grip on America than they did on the Netherlands. With hundreds of millions of miles of roadway infrastructure and decades of horrid practices, it's gonna take ages to make enough changes to increase the safety of roads. Beyond that, the peoples' minds need to be changed. We're accustomed to horrific high-speed crashes on our roads, lots of people are unwilling to accept tax increases, and the older population hasn't died out yet. Sadly, it's gonna be a few thousand more road deaths before anything even begins to change.
But european road signs are ugly and mutcd superior
I remember as a kid going to Washington and wondering why their speed limit signs were different. Very interesting, thank you!
It's too bad that that Oregon provision is going away. It is a lot more fair and reasonable than the speed limit system in the rest of the country. Everyone treats "speed limits" as a speed target anyhow, if they don't ignore it completely, so it makes no sense to expect it to be a limit.
100%. To add to it, there's a sociological phenomenon (made famous by Dan Ariely, I believe) that when you knowingly break one rule, you're more likely to break other rules because you feel like you're already broken your veil of immaculateness. Given this phenomenon, I have no doubt in my mind that speed limit signs heavily contribute to the American plague of rule-breaking behavior and the system needs to be re-thought.
The problem is that even Germany, with their incredible mandatory road training, only allow this idea on one single road in the whole country, let alone the US who gives anyone with 2 spare braincells to rub together a liscense.
@@specialopsdave If you're referring to the Autobahn, we're not talking about roads with no speed restrictions (because they don't exist in Oregon in the first place), we're discussing whether speed signs should display "target speed," which is what Oregon's old signs implied, and "speed limit," which isn't really a limit in most places.
@@subzeroarctics1299 So what's the difference between the target speed and the speed limit, then, if it doesn't allow driving as fast as you want? (The autobahn does have a suggested top speed too, 200km/h)
Studies show that speed limits don't work anyways. Driving is a subconscious thing. If a road is straight and wide people will go faster even if the speed limit says 35. If a road is very curvy and narrow, or has potential hazards drivers will go slower because well they don't want to crash. Speed limits should largely be a suggestion and only strictly enforced on certain vehicles like school buses and 18 wheelers. Instead make roads that subconsciously forces drivers to slow down. I know in my own journey in driving for over 15 years I know this to be true too. I actually tend to drive slower in my truck than my car because my truck is very wide and I feel like I'm hugging the curve or the center line every time I drive it and this feeling forces me to slow down especially with oncoming traffic or construction zones.
I've always wondered about the 'MAXIMUM SPEED' signs in California, too. They're mostly gone now, but they still had them at the start of the I-505 in Vacaville, when I last checked.
Well, actually that's clearer. Speed "limit" could refer to a minimum limit. 😉
@@kenmore01 I don't know if it's still true, but California used to have "minimum" speed limit signs on the freeways (45 MPH).
@@ThomasKent1346 Only "Minimum Speed" signs I recall were in Tucson, AZ 1970's and as a kid circa 1950's & '60's on California's old Highway 99 in the San Joaquin Valley. Guess to discourage farm implements using the "new" limited access freeway.
@@ThomasKent1346 I think there still is a minimum speed limit, but signs showing it seem to be rare in CA. When I lived in Michigan they were common -- you'd see "SPEED LIMIT 65" and then a sign either adjacent to or under it saying "MINIMUM 45." There were also signs at freeway entrances with a whole laundry list of what you were and weren't allowed to take on the freeway.
@@ThomasKent1346 they’re here in Ohio too. Minimum of 40 on the interstates
Would love to get your insight on the differences between US and EU road signs, perhaps seeing which one's you find to be more effective.
Pretty much everyone outside the US knows that the two five letter words are superfluous.
A number inside a red circle ⭕⭕⭕ means speed limit.
It's mostly pretty good, other than Italy which has obtuse town limits where you are expected to know the speed (tourist trap)
I am always puzzled by how much text the USA puts on their signs.
In most countries we only use symbols. Much easier to parse when driving at speed.
I find parking signs to be the worst.
Europeans are better at living among different people in close quarters. Americans are used to a single official state language (named after the colonial power we fought for independence, no less) and wide open spaces.
Europeans would rather all drivers of every language understand their road signs, while in america, this is america, so speak English. Lol.
@@PhilLesh69 We do speak English, but not officially though.
@@alcid34 I guess if by "we" you mean yourself and the people you've grown up around, sure. But not everyone in America speaks English. Officially or otherwise.
Hi!
Love your videos.
I work for ODOT in the states sign shop.
We have stopped fabricating “SPEED” only signs. Couple years now.
You will still see the old ones in the wild still.
Love your content!
When driving in the US for the first times, I remember that it was hard for my brain that a plain black on white sign was a rule or restriction as it is used to identify round signs with a red circle as such (like that "no left or U-turn" sign in the video).
I like the "speed" signs. When I moved out here, I thought they were different and unique, and part of what made Oregon independent from the rest of the herd. They are easier to read with bigger numbers and fewer words, and if you're from the US or Canada, it's perfectly clear that it's a speed limit sign. It is a unique part of Oregon's heritage, and I am sad to see them slowly being phased out.
Nothing like that pure unadulterated Oregon speed.
Yup… clean, uncut no filler Oregon speed.
Absolutely one of a kind.
canada doesnt say speed limit either lmao, it says maximum. canadian signs are almost entirely different than american signs. we only copied the shape of the sign lol.
(to be honest, i wish both canada and america adopted the signage that the rest of the world uses. it makes no sense that ours are entirely different (and arent even consistant between the 2 countries) when everyone else is under the same standard)
@@xdn22 Yes, I have seen those signs. The most similar signs we have to that here in the states are in California, where it says "Maximum Speed 65" instead of "Speed Limit 65". But these signs aren't universal and there are many signs that say "Speed Limit..." instead. I like the Canadian/Oregon/California signs better, personally.
Can you pump your own fuel in OR, or is it just NJ where that's prohibited anymore?
@@chuckleberryfinn1992 It's still almost all full-serve, but I think they made some exceptions for gas stations in rural areas in off hours can go to self-serve.
Native Oregonian here, they are slowly adding 'limit' to any speed limit signs they replace. Ah, kind of sad personally.
I'm from Germany and based on everything i've seen so far it seems to me that american street signs are way too "texty". Is it just because i'm not used to it or do Americans feel the same about that? And if you are from America and have been to or even lived in Germany or Europe, what were your experiences and thoughts about our street signs?
American signs are definitely "wordy" compared to most other regions, but most people won't think about it in the first place because the most commonly used signs are well-standardized.
As a traffic engineer, I can tell you are streets are way too overengineered. Too many signs, too many devices, all to try and achieve the fasted vehicle speeds possible in all situations. Even modern attempts at safety don't really go at the root cause of injuries and fatalities. We need a serious re-evaluation of the MUTCD, our design manuals, and approach to city/town street design.
Highway designs are mostly fine, us engineers are good at the limited access stuff. But we got into trouble when we started applying those standards to urban streets.
I've driven in the UK and really enjoyed all the things that would drive US traffic engineers bonkers here seem to work just fine. Things like, not 12+ foot wide lanes, multi-lane roundabouts with slip lanes everywhere, and traffic signals for pedestrians. Have not been to Germany (that was our 2020 vacation that got cancelled due to Covid).
Europeans tolerate the fact that dozens of languages are spoken by europeans. A lot of our more provincial Americans truly cannot stand anyone speaking any other language than American. No wait, it's actually called English, but they think it's America's "official language" and they can be downright belligerent towards other languages.
I guess it's just another form of American chauvinism. While Europeans use symbols so everyone can be safe on the roads, in america they want you to speak *_their_* language, above all other considerations.
They also cannot accept the metric system. They still insist on using the crown's imperial weights and measures, too. Go figure. They think it's America's unit of measure, not the British standards.
@@PhilLesh69 I think you've hit the nail on the head here. We in Europe are much more likely to drive between different countries speaking different languages. Hence we've become more accustomed to icons rather than words on many signs. [The biggest issue here in Europe is our (UK's) insistence on sticking to the archaic miles rather than kilometers, so an identical sign will mean 30mph in the UK and 30kph in the logical world]
@@PhilLesh69 being able to communicate with one another is a big reason why America has had the largest economy in the world for the last 100+ years. As they say communication rules a nation. There's nothing wrong with different languages it's the inability to communicate with one another when it becomes a problem and holds our nation back.
Even if the British invented the system, if it's used in America it's also the American system. We do it how we like, and it works for us the US isn't like the rest of the world. Sometimes the British use metric, but they're rightfully making an attempt to return to the imperial.
LOL @ California: "Trucks only. No pickups." But pickups ARE trucks, OOPS!
No. They are not trucks. At least not in the sense the sign is getting at.
@@Inspadave: The sign doesn't make sense, and it can't redefine the word, and yes they are in general.
@@Inspadave Most people consider a "pickup" a "truck". There are big trucks and there are little trucks. A pickup is a little truck. LOL
No they are not. Trucks (and I work in a truck manufacturer) is a truck; prime mover etc. A pick up is a pick up or utility - despite the obvious desperate need of some men to increase their masculinity by calling it a truck. And anybody actually driving a real prime mover/truck would laugh at the desperation of calling a small suburban pick up ‘a truck’
@@TexasTaxedToDeath: Yes, even without the quotes around either of those words. Even the dictionary agrees with you, thanks! There are even hand trucks, so... yep!
US: We have word on our sign that say "speed limit".
rest of a world: You need words to convey the meaning of the sign? We just have a number in a circle.
Germany: You guys need speed limits on your highways?
Poland in the distance: _We have highway speed limit, but nobody follows it anyway._
No one follows highway speed limits in the US either...
@@vegetarianbacon718 exactly, because they’re too slow
It used to be no speed limit in montana
I was looking for a WW2 joke...*sigh* 😞 disappointment
@tpodote
Rest of the World probably only means Europe right?
Relax guys, in Canada we usually just have MAXIMUM and sometimes km/h
it somewhat annoys me when people assume canada uses the same signs as america, since it isnt true. although its such a small and non-issue, so idk why its a pet peeve of mine lol. people dont notice it because canada's use the same shape and background as the usa. (i used to think the same thing) but everything else is different. canadas are almost exclusively pictograms while the usa's is almost exclusively text. many of the signs dont even resemble each other at all! (pedestrian crossing, no stopping, no parking, permitted signs, lane signs, even the design of the road lines lol)
once you are aware of it you cant unsee it, you'd be amazed how many american movies were filmed in canada (specifically vancouver lol) yet take place in america. i always find myself noticing it without googling it. just by looking at the signs in the background :P
@@xdn22 I also notice Canadian road signs in "American" places in TV shows and films. There are some egregious examples, none of which I can think of off the top of my head. Since I'm a "road sign nerd" I can also pick out anachronisms.... newer signs that shouldn't exist in the period the story is set in.
First allowing some people to pump their own gas sometimes and now adding "limit" to their signs--what will Oregon do next?
I didn’t know you couldn’t pump your own gas before. I’m from PA and I go over to New Jersey for cheaper gas and because they have to pump it for you
they damned well better not put a tax on spending.
You guys don’t pump you’re own gas? In Canada every gas station is self-serve
@@aidanmcgregor8789 In the US, every gas station is self-serve except in Oregon and apparently New Jersey (I've never been to NJ, only heard about it, so I don't know whether my knowledge is out of date). Apparently Oregon now allows self-serve gasoline at night if a station is open with no attendant or something, but I'm not sure how that law works even though I live here.
Most recently, no longer requiring students to demonstrate proficiency in reading, writing and math in order to get a HS diploma.
Oregon is good at doing dumb stuff, and patting themselves on the back for it.
I've actually seen two "SPEED" signs in Washington State many years ago. One was heading southbound on Center Road toward Quilcene, the other was way up on Icicle Road out of Leavenworth going east from the end of the pavement toward town.
I've seen that sign in Leavenworth. Wonderful little town.
Dang.
I probably saw the "SPEED" sign on Center Road and thought 'oh how different and cool', and then don't really notice it cuz that drive is too familiar.
Edit: small world after all
@@jeffreysidden1832 It was many years ago, at least going back to the mid-1980s as I haven't driven that road since.
In Europe you just have the number in a red circle. The Vienna Convention (Europes* (Ireland doesn't and other international countries do follow it, but basically non-MUTCD and MUTCD-inspired) equivilent to the MUTCD uses shapes instead of colour, with colour being a sub-set this is so:
Circles indicate orders, with blue circles with white pictograms (Text is rare but sometimes possible) meaning a "you must" and red circles rings with a white inside (the pictogram is normally black or predominantly black as well) being a must not.
Triangles pointed up indicate warnings, similar to the yellow diamond, with an accompanying "plate" where additional text is required or where a custom danger sign is needed, the pictogram in such cases is either the closest one existing or an exclamation mark waring of danger generally.
Rectangles indicate information other than warnings such as sign posts, no through road, motorway rules apply (or disapply).
The Give Way (or Yield) and Stop are the exceptions which follow the US system mostly, although the convention technically allows a now mostly depreciated sign where the stop sign is a give way sign in a circle with the word Stop, and most countries do not put text in Give Way signs, the UK and Ireland exempted although as previously mentioned Ireland often follows MUTCD inspired signs do, with Ireland (although these are allowed by the convention and I believe they follow the non-triangle rules but I'm not Irish and cannot be sure) putting Yield, its Gaelic equivalent, or both, and the UK using Give Way (Ireland here is the Republic and Northern Ireland follows UK rules, whether Northern Ireland should be part of the UK or Ireland is a massive contentious issue that is wholly irrelevant though.
This comment is very long but is basically just a bit of info about other main system which basically comes down to circle signs are white signs (except stop and give way) in that obey order else you get a ticket (or sometimes get in more trouble but normally ticket), warning triangle signs, and here's some helpful information its a dead end or you want to go that way.
I was driving in bremerhaven Germany about thirty years ago along a stretch of road that to me seemed like the "primary" road. As we approached one side street my girlfriend became rather tense. I asked her what was wrong and she blurted out "you aren't going to stop!" with quite a shriek.
There was apparently a sign about twice as high as a regular road sign, that I had never seen before. In fact my eyes ignored what was on it like it automatically doesn't register parking signs or other non-driving signs while I'm driving. But apparently it was a type of stop sign or warning about which lane of travel has the right of way. I'm still not sure if I would recognize that sign again.
@@PhilLesh69 Here you go: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_European_road_signs#Priority
Dig in and try and spot it again.
As a European, I think all USA signs are strange. We just have the speed itself on the sign without any words. Why would you need words for that?!
In case it means something else. For example there's a different speed limit for semi's, or only when wet, or the number could mean any number of other things.
@@lukasg4807 I think there are ways of displaying that with the European signs as well.
@@DiamondZombie yeah, but you have to know what different shapes and colors mean. In America as long as you know english every sign is easily understandable. No guessing whether the speed is 55 or if it's highway 55.
@@lukasg4807 Guessing? Don't you have go to school for driving?
@@DiamondZombie not everyone in your country is from there. Believe it or not foreigners do visit the US
In Canada it just says MAXIMUM
I think it is that way because it's bilingual. Before 1970 you would see "speed limit" very often.
@@rogerclarke7407 At the same time, all others aren’t bilingual, especially stop signs.
I've been told by cops that it's a 'violation of the basic rule' meaning 55 is suggested speed, if traffic is flowing at 75 then you COULD get an impeding traffic ticket if you were doing 55!
Then that cop would get sued. I would fight the ticket. You can't ticket someone, who is obeying the law, and not people who are breaking the law.
You have to drive the lower of either the speed limit or basic rule.
actually, Basic Rule is alive and well in Oregon, and if you fall off the road because you were going too fast for conditions, it is very likely you will get a ticket for violating basic rule, no matter what speed you were going. it gets particularly useful in bad weather.
LIfe long Oregonian, wrecked my second car because I was going too fast around a corner in bad weather, didn't get a ticket and a cop was there within 5 minutes because I was blocking the road.
@@GrumpyWolfTech you had a sympathetic cop, then.
@@GrumpyWolfTech Hey, I did the same thing a few weeks ago! Wrecked an Audi RS7... Pretty shitty day but I am thankful I didn't get in trouble
Hey Rob, what do you think of the digital speed limit signs on I-15 in Las Vegas? Variable speed limits seem like a hazardous slippery slope and potential legal and civil rights issue. Your take would be interesting and appreciated.
They have those in Seattle where I live on I-5 when entering the city and here on I-80 heading downhill from Park City, UT into SLC too. I went through LV last week. It took FOREVER at 30 mph!
My guess, and it really is just that, is it's for allowing changing the value during bad weather. The new Tappan Zee Bridge here in the New York City area has digital speed signs and I've seen different values from the regular 55 and it's during rain or fog. I don't know if one would get a ticket if going 55 during a rainstorm and the signs displayed a limit of 40 or 45. Of course in Las Vegas, I'm thinking there aren't too many days of rainstorms or fog. Are there Rush Hour and non-Rush Hour times that might account for the digital displays? And lastly, maybe the signs are digital and are brighter than a painted sign?
@@bikeny
I can see where having a way to quickly modify signs to match conditions can be helpful, but I see more of a potential for funny business with overzealous law enforcement creating horrendous speed traps at the flip of a switch to fill quotas or other nonsense. Las Vegas has relatively mild weather, hot summers aside, but rain is not particularly rare or comparatively problematic on the interstate, especially this time of the year.
I'm more than willing to give road engineers the benefit of the doubt, but obviously, there is huge leeway for abuse too. ua-cam.com/video/iPDcUGwfxak/v-deo.html Just because technology can be utilised does not mean it always should be used. There may be better ways of alerting drivers to be more cautious during periods of roadway safety concerns. It would be nice to hear why they chose to implement this over other potential solutions. This method may very well have been politically mandated over what engineering wanted. I don't know, either way. It's easier to throw politicians under the bus than engineers, except for the extreme cases featuring people like Denney Pate and Monty Frazier.
@@bikeny Not at 30 mph on the interstate, it's clearly a speed reduction, and while I'm all for safety, the traffic is often CAUSED BY the lower speed limit. Of course if the limit is slower, less people get out of the area in the same given time. Yeah, it was jam packed, but one has to wonder what it would be like if they just left it alone.
Posting this has put me in the mood for some Alien Fresh Jerky. 👽👽
@@kenmore01 If the 30 mph is in town, I'm jealous. Here in NYC they lowered the default limit to 25 mph (you know, unless otherwise posted). Vision Zero it's called. It's more like a cash grab since the speed cameras get you doing 36mph or more and you get hit with the $50 ticket.
If the 30mph is outside of town, then, yeah, that's all wrong.
3:03 wondering if this map is accurate. Does Michigan’s upper peninsula have different laws than the rest of Michigan or is it a mistake.
He doesn't have the Wisconsin - UP border on his other maps, either. And he gives Virginia's Eastern Shore to Maryland on all maps.
They have this on a lot of speed limit signs. If you need the word "limit" on the sign, then you need to give up your license.
You mean they are not saying that it is the Minimum Speed for that road? 😋 Just kidding.
0:21 Considering myself to have good judgment of speed, I will say that the Dodge is not going over 40mph. Who else agrees? Also, Nixon had no right to institute a national speed limit, as it would violate the 10th amendment. Since such a law was unconstitutional, the federal government resorted to blackmailing the states by threatening to withhold federal highway funding if they didn’t adopt a 55mph limit. The Feds have done the same thing to get states to impose seatbelt laws.
Montana's brilliant response to the feds imposing 55 - $5 cash on the spot fines for "excessive use of energy" .
Feds did same thing with 21 year drinking age. Don't even get me started on how Congess uses the commerce clause to gut amendment 10.
I suspect if you agreed with something imposed by Feds, you'd be fine with it. So despite the reasoning behind Nixon's move, you still fight it for the sake of liberty. SMH. You Americans are unique. Like the mask mandates. The mask is to protect others yet this doesn't phase you because YOU are all that matters.
@@Ratboy2004 good policy is no more constitutional than bad policy.
A friend tells me that upstate NY has a limit of 55 for any road not posted otherwise. I found out while visiting, this means many dirt roads are 55 mph!
These snippets of your longer episodes are great, but they really should go onto a second channel, something like "Road Guy Rob Clips." People (like me) who have already watched your long form content aren't going to watch your clips as much and your channel metrics (and standing in the almighty algorithm) will suffer because of it.
Because in Oregon we don't need useless words to understand that's the speed limit....but now that California refugees are here we have to add 'limit' to help them understand.
As a lifelong Oregonian, I never knew other states have the word “limit.”
I was once at a gas station in Twin Falls, ID. There was an old lady asking the attendant how gas pumps work because she was from Oregon. I was quite shocked.
@@zekaifan4544 Oregonian here! Don’t know how to pump gas because I’ve never had the chance too it’s illegal here! Literally will get banned from the gas station
@@ethanno7396 um no it's not, it only is in the Portland metro area.
@@ethanno7396 You've never pumped gas in Washington or California?
@@ethanno7396 Unless you have a diesel or a motorcycle, then you can pump your own, or if it's after hours in a rural part of the state.
A white square sign with a black border and black lettering means "recommended speed" in Norway. 😅
Likewise in the UK its an advisory speed (not legally enforceable)
Road guy rob should have at least one million subs. such good content.
HECK YES! I've been saying we need to do this for years. I always thought they should say "SPEED XX +/- 5 MPH". It's not an upper limit, its an imperative to travel at that speed unless road conditions don't allow for it. Having an upper limit with no lower limit allows slow drivers to become road hazards.
I remember travelling the highways around Detroit and distinctly remember two separate signs (one above the other). One said Speed Limit XX and the other said Minimum Speed XX. Disobey either one and expect a ticket.
Just went through the Blue Mountains, and saw both "Speed 70" and "Speed Limit 70" signs along the way. Interesting to see the reason behind the lack of a limit before.
Until around the ?mid 1970s, In Idaho on our highways, we had 2 speed signs on 1 post.
The top one, was White with Black Letters and would say something like Speed Limit 75. And under that sign was a Black sign with White Letters...and it said Night Speed Limit 65.
They got rid of the night time speed limit signs around here decades ago. I think it's just common sense to slow down at night, but the state probably did the math and found out night time speeding tickets weren't enough to pay for the signs :P
So in the map at 2:50... Michigan's Upper Peninsula doesn't follow their state's manual??? And on the map at 3:06... Michigan's Upper Peninsula, as far as I know, doesn't follow Wisconsin's supplement (even though they are culturally very similar to northern Wisconsin....)
I've totally been wondering this as I live in Oregon! Thank you for making this video!
Oregonian here, idk where you’ve gotten your info from but I travel a lot and there are plenty of signs in Oregon that say Speed Limit.
Did you watch the whole video...?
In Europe we do not have the word "Speed" or "Limit" on our signs. It's just a red circle with numbers in it. Everyone knows what to do. That's because we teach our people how to drive and what not to do on the road. (Btw, it will cost you about 1500 to 2000 € to get a driver's license here)
I am pretty sure that before the national "55" limit was imposed many states had "reasonable and prudent." I recall as a kid seeing a state by state US Atlas that was from the '60s and this was the case in many states, although most of them had speed limits for nighttime and inclement weather. Also growing up in an urban metropolis I often saw speed limit signs that also had a minimum speed on the freeways. Oddly I can't recall if I have seen one of those lately, so now I will have to look more closely and see if I find any of them still around.
The federal government stopped that a long time ago, I think during the first Bush's administration or the Clinton administration, either way it's been awhile and since then states have been able to set the speed limit to whatever they want without losing 10% of the federal funds meant for highways.
i25 in Denver still has minimums up. Good luck following that during rush hour.
I’m surprised our speed limit hasn’t increased in decades!! 55 for the ever growing highway is just not sufficient.
you should try driving 55 miles an hour. You’ll feel like you’re going backwards because everyone else is driving 75 very well. I mean everyone is driving above the speed limit… Already. Imagine making the speed limit 75 people will be going 9055 saves lives and gas. But that doesn’t make a difference. What was brilliant was a year or two ago when gas went up to five dollars a gallon people were still driving at whatever speed they like. Because Americans are stupid. But anyway it’s not just Americans. I think it’s just people around the world. Selfish and stupid.
As an Oregonian, I preferred the signs without "limit." Bigger numbers and, to me, it meant "go this speed!" not "go up to this speed!" If it is 55, and conditions permit, you should be going 55, not 45. Ah well. Every time a new sign goes in now it is the "Speed Limit" variety... have to imagine they are much cheaper in bulk.
Model T drivers: _"Am I a joke to you?"_
Yet everyone routinely drives 5 to 10 UNDER the f'ing sign anyway. F'ing Oregon drivers - drive me insane
I think there should also be a speed minimum on most highways. There are some on interstates by 15 to 20 below the limit but there are plenty of people who do it.
Most interstate highways have minimum speed requirements. It's not really a good idea for other highways, because everyone has to use those types of roads. Not everyone has to use an interstate or freeway.
Australia + New Zealand make the biggest deviation from these conventions, with their “number in a red circle” speed limits. It’s such a famous icon that the red circle can be used out of context (with any kind of B&W number inside it) and everybody knows it’s talking about a limit.
Number in a red circle? Isn't that how it works in Europe too?
@@Squaretable22 yup
I think almost every country except US and Canada uses that for speed limits.
Aus & NZ typically follow the US rulebook, with wordy signs and less pictograms, but pickup the red circle ⭕⭕ from Europe / UK.
That's literally how most countries other than America show their speed limits
Stop trying to isolated other countries when you lack the info to realise you're wrong
Rather disappointed to see the maps displayed at 2:53 and 3:04 incorrectly show Michigan’s Upper Peninsula as part of Wisconsin.
I miss seeing kilometers per hour sign in the US
Miles all days everyday!
KPH confuses people used to standard measurement and causes speeding incidents.
@@colonelangus8247 Aye, but miles per hour confuses people used to metric (i.e. most of the rest of the world!) The USA and UK are outliers here. I have to mentally convert US signs to metric to have them make sense (i.e. WTF is 45 mph? hmmm 70 km/h. Oh, OK.)
cant wait until they finally switch to the metric system
@@xdn22 Will never happen.
Without the word "limit," it looks more like an advertisement for the price of a certain drug in the area. lol
Many Idaho speed limit signs enlarge the numbers on the sign. They look similar to the Oregon "speed" signs but include the word "limit".
I just thought of something with your comment. Idaho's speed limits being higher than Oregon's now (by a whole 10 mph) kind of makes a halfway decent compensation for the word limit being included on Idaho's signs while still not on some of Oregon's. It's a thought.
The problem with enlarging the digits is that you have to use a narrower typeface. Narrower typefaces have thinner strokes. Thinner strokes are harder to discern at a distance.
The standard FHWA "E" font is still best.
I wish people would understand the signs to mean you should be driving "at least" the posted speed and no more than "prudent".
You should visit canby Oregon for signs. They have huge ones they give you a speed limit two blocks later the sign is half the size with a new speed limit. No reduce Speed Ahead signs just if you weren't paying attention and didn't notice the smaller sign you get a ticket. That is if you even see the sign because they forgot to clear the trees out in front of the smaller sign...
that's like every where in Oregon tho, innit? at least like the smaller cities I've drove through are like that-
I have lived in oregon for my whole life and I never realized. I have seen both types and never once questioned it. Just obeyed the posted speed.
Hello from Depoe Bay Oregon!
Texas had thus weird law where no one has to pay any attention to the speed limit signs and you can drive as fast as you want including the police. Either that or everyone in the state is totally illiterate because no one drives below 80 anywhere.
I am always puzzled by how much text the USA puts on their signs.
In most countries we only use symbols. Much easier to parse when driving at speed.
I find parking signs to be the worst.
Americans are not accustomed to sharing and accepting neighbors. Europeans have lived among various languages for centuries, while America was born from the rejects of Europe who set off for new lands where they did not need to learn how to work well and play nicely with people of different ideas, languages and cultures.
Some Americans get downright angry when they see non-English words on signs.
I believe a little bit of that insistence on using English words instead of universal symbols and Arabic numerals is born from a certain kind of American chauvinism.
Our system works for us, and your system works for you.
The rest of the world more or less follows an international standard that has been set, that the US does not comply with as per usual.
Parking signs are designed to be easy to misinterpret, it's part of the revenue generating process
Why don't you worry about your own country.
Never turn on right on a red light in Oregon , even if you stop , look both ways and are in the turning lane..the hidden traffic cameras will take your picture and cost you $ 268 bucks
If the speed limits were not so ridiculously low, fewer people would speed, resulting in fewer tickets, which means less revenue, so the limits remain ridiculously low.
wrong.
@@Bendigo1 It's okay, snowflake, it's your right to be wrong.
@@TommyJonesProductions I am glad you believe that because you are wrong about so many things.
@@Bendigo1 I'm not wrong about this, though. Good luck next time.
@@TommyJonesProductions You are, but thats ok because its ok to be wrong, remember?
My old maths teacher used to say "It's not a minimum, it's not an average, and it's not a suggestion".
In Euro Truck Simulator, it's just a number circled in red.
In Europe, traffic signs don't have text on it - too many different languages make that impossible. So, it's symbols or numbers only, with the exception that additional signs with qualifiers can be added - for example "when wet" to a speed limit sign (number in red circle) for a speed limit that only applies during heavy rain.
The system relies on shape and color which you can see from far away:
Red circles - a limit sign (speed, parking, etc.)
Red triangle pointing up - a warning sign (ice, animals in road, rock fall, etc.)
Red triangle pointing down - yield
Round with blue background - giving direction (e.g. right turn only)
Square with blue background and number - minimum speed (my favorite!)
That's how speed limits are shown in Europe
@@nrichthof That last one is not true. Blue square with white number is a recommended speed. A minimum speed limit sign is almost always a blue circle with a white number (though it can differ depending on the country, as these things are really rare).
@@flopsinator5817 I stand corrected.
This video has nothing to do with Europe.
In my city I swear they keep lowering speed limits on roads that were just fine just so they can ticket people more!
There is case law in Ohio that says an improperly installed street sign in unenforceable.
I know of a speed limit sign where I live (a 35mph between a legal 45mph and a legal 25mph sign) that's installed on the opposite side of the sidewalk, and is 3 times the regulation distance from the road. My mother, who used to work for the state DOT, says she never pays attention to it.
Oregon's leaders are far too busy with more important tasks. Such as decriminalization possession of meth, heroin, opioids and making sure high schoolers don't need to able to read, write or pass math classes in order to graduate.
Why does the US not follow the international system of road signs (the agreement was in Geneva in 1949 if my memory serves me correctly)? It works well for the rest of the world. The way it works is that circular signs give instructions (with red colour - thou shalt not, and blue colour - thou shalt), triangular signs give warnings and square or rectangular signs give information (again, red = negative and blue = positive).
It would make things a lot easier.
No it wouldn't, America unlike most other countries was already rich and had a strong driving culture way before 1949 that's most likely the reason. Not to mention a very large automotive industry.
@@seanthe100 A horse and cart also worked fine for a long time, but we are not using those to get around any more either.
It's called "adapt and evolve".
Well we can't change it now. Imagine the chaos! I find our signs simple. After you're an experienced driver, you don't read word for word. Just a simple glance is enough with some exceptions (parking of school signs for example)
@@Olsulor11 again, our system works for us. I can totally understand if it doesn't work for you, but it's not intended to work for you anyways!!
In the USA, we're ingrained to see wordless signs as highway numbers. At this point if you put the number 55 in a circle with no words in the US, people from other US states would think, "That must be this state's way of marking State Highway 55."
Driven a lot in Oregon, been on a lot of roads that don’t have a posted speed limit. In towns that don’t have their own police stations. Feels like the old times you described.
Traffic regulations in the USA need to be moved from state level to federal level. It is not reasonable for drivers to familiarize themselves with the laws of every state that they drive in/through or where they rent a vehicle after arriving in a given state.
Downside to that is that certain states have certain needs. States with high population density have different needs than those with low density. I don't want to give up my state's 85 mph interstate highway speed limit; even at that speed, it takes a while to get places.
The thing is some states are so different from others that some laws in some states may not make much sense in others...
@@amicloud_yt Examples?
@@timcarlos
One problem with this that traffic regulations are already fairly harmonized, and the differences are for things not commonly encountered on a cross-country road trip.
@@IkeOkerekeNews What you say sounds reasonable but I was ticketed once in California for not turning the wheels of the rental car toward the curb on a downgrade. If that law were to exist as a federal law, every state traffic manual would have it and I might have known about it before arriving in California.
Merry Christmas to you Rob. Great work you're doing. Maybe you should travel to Canada and do several videos on the crazy roads up here. All the best in 2022.
Cause we "special"
An appropriate comment for those areas that don't follow common guidelines! One should be able to travel anywhere and the signs be consistent. There shouldn't be any "specials" when it comes to the meaning of traffic signs.
@@TexasTaxedToDeath Don't go to NJ then
@@TexasTaxedToDeath Every state has "specials"....
All I know is,Ill be eternally grateful to the state of California.They always inform me, on the packaging , if something I buy will give me cancer.
The word Limit is missing because it saves millions of dollars every year that can be used to fund the study of butterflies on Mars.
I drive a charter bus and am totally flummoxed when I turn a corner and drive 10 feet and see a weight limit sign with absolutely NO chance of backing up onto the main artery I just turned off of.
I’ve seen these sign many times but I never thought twice about them
The state of Oregon still has a speed law of reasonable and prudent. The problem is the current speed limits are not based on the basic rule but are still based on the now defunct Federal 55/65 mph speed limit. The original signs that only read the word speed were just that they were basic suggested speeds for various roads. It was not until 1973 totally illegal to exceed them unless you were driving faster than conditions allowed. It was highly unlikely in early 73 that you would get a speeding ticket for doing 75 in a 70. Oregon's department of transportation felt that a speed limit was not compatible with a basic rule. That turned out to be false. Speed limits are compatible with the basic rule so long as the speed limit is reasonable for conditions. Of which many of Oregon's speed limits are not. For example it's still 65 on interstate 5 even though most traffic is running between 70 and 75. The same with interstate 84 between Portland and The Dalles it's still 65 even though the traffic speed is just over 70. The same with many two lane roads that are still 55 that are perfectly safe for 60 to 65 mph. The problem was a governor named John kitzhaber who unfortunately still believed in the 55/65 and would not allow the legislature to set more reasonable speeds on the highways.
Not sure why your last few videos haven’t been showing up in my subscriptions tab. Subscribed and hit the bell icon however no notifications. Weird.
Any thoughts on Nikki Sylianteng's redesign of parking signs? They're not MUTCD-compliant, obviously, but they are a VAST improvement over incomprehensible parking/no parking signs with convoluted hours and exceptions in many cities. Los Angeles did a pilot project with her designs, although I don't know if they followed up on it by expanding it to other areas as well.
You should do a video on Montana’s former speed law when they didn’t have a speed limit.
In practice, the posted speed limit is the maximum “reasonable speed” according to the basic rule. No judge will rule that an officer cannot cite for exceeding the posted speed. Depending on conditions, a traffic officer can always cite for speeding at a lower speed according to the basic rule. It’s just common sense at that point. So, rather than act as a choose-your-own speed rule, the basic rule allows the traffic officer greater discretion to write a citation for speeding at a lower speed.
*Speed Limit 30? we go 35-40. Speed Limit 50? we go 55-60. Speed Limit 70? we go 75-80. the Cop here dont care as long as its not unnecessary fast.*
Oregon, July 2023, I was given a warning for going 52 in a 55 and that the "Speed 55" is a minimum since "limit" wasn't on the sign...
My mom used to say “it’s a speed limit not a speed maximum “
back when our local newspaper published traffic citation in the News of Record section you could find out who got busted for what. "Violation Basic Rule" was the most common ticket
I will agree with California making the "All trucks over 10 tons must enter weigh station next right" to "All trucks stop at scales. No pickups" it makes it much easier to read at 70mph
New York Washington Heights area is crazy. 25 to 75 miles on a side road. No one gives a ticket, no police bad policies in the Washington Heights area.
There is a lot bad signage in this country like:
SPEED
LIMIT
35
ENDS
Why not just declare the new speed limit ?
Because you're expected to know the standard speed limit for the type of road outside of the built-up area.
But, that is not the practice in my state. There's a SPEED LIMIT sign, every time.
Because the bureaucrats think they are above the law in Oregon and they are more than likely extorting the money not spent on the word "limit", they do that kinda shit here! Like the pot tax, any idea where all that money has been going, neither does anybody else! Yet like all the bills passed in this state anymore they all are carouseled on our child's education, yet our schools are some of the worst in the nation!
A couple of guys from France were pulled over in California for speeding. They told the officer they were not exceeding the posted speed limit. California State Road 99.
They’re telling you just go 30 miles an hour above the speed limit in Oregon they won’t give you a ticket
In the UK we just have a number, because what else would the big sign with a big 30 be telling you.
It also makes it easier to read the number, it has a red border to help it stand out, and all signs are (mostly) shared with all EU countries, so you can drive in all of them without having to adapt.
It's one of the things I've noticed that makes Malheur County different from Idaho. That, and all the marijuana dispensaries. I've always wondered why they omitted the word "limit" from the signs, but now I know!
When I was a kid on my bicycle, I saw a policeman parked by a school (it was summer) watching people with his radar gun. We thought it was cool so we asked him about it. He was friendly and even let us "shoot" a few passing cars. The speed limit was 25. When I saw someone going 30 I asked the officer," aren't you going to pull them over?" He explained that the sign said speed and that it was the recommended speed and that they could go a little faster, and that was okay. Then we saw someone going 40. That was when he flipped on the lights and said, "Sorry kids, time for me to go."
the basic rule applies . travel at a speed safe for road conditions.
you can get a ticket for going the speed limit in adverse conditions.
Interesting, as always. Thank you. I lived and drove in Oregon 1972-1973, plus several trips to and through. Never noticed the phantom "Limit" on signs. I wonder if Oregon found standard Federal speed "Limit" signs cheaper to buy than no-limit signs. 🤔
Most decent-sized municipalities make and install their own signs.
Been driving here in Oregon for 40+ years. The guidelines used have always been; if the sign says 'limit', you can get a ticket for anything over that speed, and there is no valid argument to get out of it. If the sign says 'Speed' (without limit) than it is a suggestion left to the drivers perception of conditions. That doesn't mean you might not get a ticket, but it means you have an argument to use in court regarding the 'basic rule' speed.